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Speaker 1: This episode of Headgame was recorded on gadigal Land.

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Speaker 2: It's early morning of January twenty three, nineteen ninety one,

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Speaker 2: just days into Operation Desert Storm, as part of the

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Speaker 2: Gulf War, three sas patrols go behind enemy lines to

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Speaker 2: hunt down Saddam Hussein's scud missiles team. Bravo IE zero

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Speaker 2: aborted the mission, deciding Iraq's flat desert with no cover

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Speaker 2: made it too risky to proceed. Bravo two zero deployed,

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Speaker 2: but within deser location was compromised. Three members of the

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Speaker 2: patrol would die, another four would be captured by the enemy.

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Speaker 2: Then there was Bravo three zero. Despite the odds, they

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Speaker 2: managed to remain undetected and go deep behind Iraqi lines.

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Speaker 2: The second in command of this group was des Powell,

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Speaker 2: joining the Army fourteen years earlier. He wasn't initially keen

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Speaker 2: on a military career. Now his life life is literally

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Speaker 2: on the line. I'm Att Middleton, and this is head

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Speaker 2: Game today, des Pow on the.

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Speaker 1: Heroic story of Bravo three zero.

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Speaker 2: And his life lessons from his near thirty year career

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Speaker 2: in the military. As we've met before, obviously, and I'd

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Speaker 2: like to say, you know, we've got the old school

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Speaker 2: generation SF operator and with myself the news school sort

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Speaker 2: of generation SF operator. But Dez, take me back to

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Speaker 2: you know, your early days. Did you always want to

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Speaker 2: join the military?

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Speaker 3: No, I never have military in mind out but I

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Speaker 3: think I was influenced through me. Granddad had been in

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Speaker 3: the First World War and my dad would done National service.

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Speaker 4: And when I was a cared I can.

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Speaker 3: Always remember being around these guys and always seem.

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Speaker 4: To have things to that.

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Speaker 3: You know, He's like when you're a youngster, aunt is,

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Speaker 3: you only have two emotions.

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Speaker 4: You're either happier you're sad. And I always.

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Speaker 3: Remember being around my granddad and my dad and there

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Speaker 3: was that respect there. And I think I was influenced

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Speaker 3: from an early age, as I SAIMI granddad had been

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Speaker 3: in the First World War. He had a bad chest.

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Speaker 3: It was always coughing and spitting on the fire, so

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Speaker 3: guess what little dads used to do the same. And

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Speaker 3: I used to get told off by my mom and then,

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Speaker 3: but I could see there was that respect from my

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Speaker 3: granddad going to my dad, and my dad had done

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Speaker 3: National service and obviously he was looking after my mom

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Speaker 3: ows me. Obviously my granddad's daughter. But as I says,

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Speaker 3: I must have been influenced at that time, because as

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Speaker 3: I grow up, I left school quite early.

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Speaker 4: I left at fifteen year old.

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Speaker 3: I grew up in Sheffield, and I thought to myself,

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Speaker 3: you know, I've less scoiled too early, and I just

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Speaker 3: knew it some time in my life, and I was

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Speaker 3: going to have.

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Speaker 4: To get educated.

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Speaker 3: And I'd realized I'd done the wrong thing by leaving

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Speaker 3: school too early. But in Sheffield in those days, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's an industrious city. You know, it's the city of

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Speaker 3: Steely had the steel works, the pits, the mines, and

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Speaker 3: everybody wanted to leave school and become a man. But

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Speaker 3: I knew at some stage aunt, I was going to

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Speaker 3: have to get educated.

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Speaker 4: But not at all. Did I ever think about the military.

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Speaker 4: Not at all.

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Speaker 2: And it's weird that you say that, because you know

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Speaker 2: up north or in that region of Sheffield, and you know,

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Speaker 2: back in back in the day. And I say back

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Speaker 2: in the day, but you know when you mentioned that,

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Speaker 2: the mind.

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Speaker 1: The steel you know, people went out to work early.

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Speaker 2: You know, it was a case of some people didn't

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Speaker 2: finish school, or when they did finish school, there was

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Speaker 2: no further education. It was like, right, get out and

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Speaker 2: get a job, get a trace, or especially in that

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Speaker 2: join the military.

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Speaker 3: I agreed, and I remember when I was at school

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Speaker 3: or as I just left at fifteen. And by the way,

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Speaker 3: the year after people left at sixteen fifteen is are

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Speaker 3: crazy to leave skyl you know. And then there weren't

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Speaker 3: many few options. You either went into the steel works

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Speaker 3: or he went into the pet But yes, there was

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Speaker 3: an expectancy from your mom and dad, from your family

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Speaker 3: that you go out to work and aren't some money

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Speaker 3: so as alift scoil at fifteen, you know, I did

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Speaker 3: all the usual thanks just money. Firstly, I think I

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Speaker 3: can remember stacking shelves in a supermarket. Then I remember

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Speaker 3: I become a butcher. I worked in a butcher's shop.

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Speaker 3: Then I went to work in the center of Sheffield

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Speaker 3: and I'm a driving. I'm a driving as we have

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Speaker 3: this big steam Amma which bashes down the red or ingots.

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Speaker 4: Then I did.

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Speaker 3: Property repairing for English Steel and eventually I started to yeah,

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Speaker 3: as I'm getting old, I'm starting to think, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm not getting much education. I'm bringing in money and

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Speaker 3: I'm working and I'm doing what's expected of me. But

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Speaker 3: to I'm thinking I better get a proper job, or

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Speaker 3: I better go to college or something like that. Now,

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Speaker 3: the people around me all used to say, you know,

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Speaker 3: you'd be good in the military. Days, you'll be good

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Speaker 3: in the army. And I used to say, no, I'm

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Speaker 3: not having anybody shout at me. I'm not anybody telling

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Speaker 3: me what to do and what have you.

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Speaker 4: You know what it's like.

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Speaker 3: I was just happy that I got money in my pocket,

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Speaker 3: and I just thought it was that usual thing that

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Speaker 3: I thought, do you know, something will turn up, something

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Speaker 3: will turn up.

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Speaker 2: When did you decide to make to make the leap

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Speaker 2: of faith and join the military, And what units were

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Speaker 2: you interested in? What once sort of really jumped out to, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I tell you how that come about? And is that

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Speaker 3: you know something I started to think around me is

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Speaker 3: that maybe somebody's people are right when it said, you know,

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Speaker 3: I think you designed for the military that would suit

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Speaker 3: you do, et cetera, et cetera. And Sheffield in those

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Speaker 3: days you had the skinheads, you had the football hooliganism

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Speaker 3: that was going on, and it was quite violent in

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Speaker 3: Sheffield in those days. I mean, they talk about the

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Speaker 3: problems today, but you know, we have two football clubs

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Speaker 3: in Sheffield, Sheffield United chef Wednesday and never the two

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Speaker 3: should meet and the great clubs. But back then I

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Speaker 3: think you can remember that the football hooliganism, the violence

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Speaker 3: was very, very bad and and you could feel yourself

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Speaker 3: getting pulled to the dark side, you know, hanging around

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Speaker 3: in gas you know, skin edge, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: He had a fairly bad reputation and it was just

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Speaker 3: fighting and finings. So I remember in them days in

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Speaker 3: Sheffield's it was a real, real problem. In fact, it

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Speaker 3: brought football to its knees. And and then what happened

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Speaker 3: was and I had an opportunity to go down south

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Speaker 3: and I worked as a on on building sites and

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Speaker 3: he was down in Bournemouth and Pool. And I think

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Speaker 3: you can guess what's coming is that I was on

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Speaker 3: a building site and here and all of a sudden

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Speaker 3: I see these lorries with the names on the side Marines,

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Speaker 3: you know, and and I'm kind of I'm looking, I'm thinking,

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Speaker 3: oh over them, like you know. So that was in

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Speaker 3: Bournemouth and then I then started to look after a

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Speaker 3: brick laying gang. You know, when you do hot carrying,

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Speaker 3: you know what it's like you carry the bricks, you

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Speaker 3: carried the cement and what have you. And I was

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Speaker 3: down in pool and then one day, beautiful hot sunny day,

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Speaker 3: I'm getting some son and I see these these boats

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Speaker 3: are here. You know, I kept seeing it, um like

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Speaker 3: that it was the Ribs and obviously, you know I

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Speaker 3: could have and I'm almost certainly it was your guys,

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Speaker 3: you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I'm looking at it.

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Speaker 1: So you you you were born to be in the SPS.

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Speaker 4: And no one's gonna put me out in the lion's mouth.

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Speaker 3: And I know I do, but I thought, you know something,

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Speaker 3: I better come claim because I think I mentioned it

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Speaker 3: in the book.

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Speaker 4: Any are like, you know, but it's funny.

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Speaker 3: You know what Adrow was, I don't know, going on

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Speaker 3: seventeen or whatever, eighteen and I saw these ribs and

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Speaker 3: I kept seeing the Marines and I'm working on building

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Speaker 3: sites and brick laying and hoping eye just laboring, you know.

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Speaker 4: But I enjoyed it, you know, it was funny.

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Speaker 3: But I started to ask guys, I go right there,

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Speaker 3: Marines like, oh yeah, they're good guys.

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Speaker 4: They standing the other they fake.

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Speaker 3: Of course, I started to take interest because just about

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Speaker 3: monthst days I see these lodies with Marines on the side.

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Speaker 3: So I plucked up courage to go to the career's

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Speaker 3: office and started to first you know what it's like.

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Speaker 3: And you go and ask some questions.

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Speaker 4: You're going and you go, where did you go? What

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Speaker 4: for you? Well?

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Speaker 3: I was down in Bonemouth to start with U and

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Speaker 3: and that was just I remember going in said, look,

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Speaker 3: I don't want to join, but I need to ask

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Speaker 3: some questions.

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Speaker 4: And what I did.

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Speaker 3: I asked all about the Marines and generally about the

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Speaker 3: military on a whole, like you know. And but the

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Speaker 3: seed was sown, so to speak, you know. And and

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Speaker 3: I'm a slow burner, aunt. I have to think about

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Speaker 3: things a lot, even today, you know. And and it

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Speaker 3: must have been about a year and then I finished

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Speaker 3: coming further back up north working again on building site

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Speaker 3: somewhere have you and and and I plucked up courage

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Speaker 3: again to go. I must have been eighteen ish to

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Speaker 3: go to the careers office. And I took the test

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Speaker 3: for the Marines and I failed it.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, you're only telling me because it's in your book.

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Speaker 4: So but the marine guy was really good.

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Speaker 3: He goes, look, he goes, I think at that time,

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Speaker 3: man I think you had to come back in six

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Speaker 3: months and do the tests again. And he actually said,

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Speaker 3: he goes, look, I don't think you want to wait

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Speaker 3: that long. Why don't you have a chat with my

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Speaker 3: colleagues downstairs. We're in the army. And yeah, I had

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Speaker 3: a chat with this guy in the army and and

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Speaker 3: I said, look, yeah, I'd like to join the military.

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Speaker 3: And and and you know something, this guy did his

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Speaker 3: job aunt and he said to me, after interviewing that

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Speaker 3: and finding out, you know what me obbys are, et cetera,

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Speaker 3: my lifestyle and where I come from. And after about

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Speaker 3: an hour or so, he says, I know which would

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Speaker 3: suit you. He says the Paris. He says, the parents will.

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Speaker 4: Be good for you.

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Speaker 3: And I said, tothe kind of really silly. I goes,

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Speaker 3: I'm going a minute. Don't they jump out airplanes? And

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Speaker 3: he goes, he goes, yeah, they do. He says he's

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Speaker 3: in the name, like it's in the title. And he says,

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Speaker 3: but listen. He says yeah. He says, by the time

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Speaker 3: you come to jump out in an airplane, he says,

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Speaker 3: you'll be more than prepared to do that, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I said to him, I says, so the pater's

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Speaker 3: good or he goes, oh yeah, he says, they're the

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Speaker 3: best in the British Army sort of thing. He says,

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Speaker 3: there's only one other bunch that he says that may

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Speaker 3: be better. And this is when I first heard it.

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Speaker 3: He says, oh, the sas And I says, or those guys,

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Speaker 3: And he says, you don't have to worry about those.

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Speaker 4: He says, we need to get you.

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Speaker 3: In the military first, he says, And I joined parachute

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Speaker 3: Regiment any them days. It was joined for three years

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Speaker 3: for six years, off for nine years, and I finished

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Speaker 3: joined for nine years because it was more money. And

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Speaker 3: I think if I signed up for three years off

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Speaker 3: for six years, I think I would have got out

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Speaker 3: too early. I would have got out prematurely, and then

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't have joined the regiment, I don't think. And

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Speaker 3: so I'm glad I signed up for nine years. And

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Speaker 3: I can thank this guy because he really did his job.

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Speaker 2: And also, you know, you look back at that moment,

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Speaker 2: you were obviously young, impressionable, moldable, you know, which is

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Speaker 2: exactly what the military needs, you know, going That's why

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Speaker 2: he said to you don't worry about the says because

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Speaker 2: but you know, they just wanted to get you through

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Speaker 2: stage by stage by stage by stage, building you up obviously,

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Speaker 2: and which the Marines and the Powers do ultimately they

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Speaker 2: build you up to SF selection, don't they.

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Speaker 1: So did you go to Older Shot?

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Speaker 2: Did you the Parachute Regiment training was was in Older Shots? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, went out in first. You know, they send you

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Speaker 3: for the two or three days. It was something core

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Speaker 3: for you. All up in Birmingham. They have a look

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Speaker 3: at you, what do you want to do? And they

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Speaker 3: try to push you to go other ways as well,

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Speaker 3: and I stuid fast. I said no, I says I

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Speaker 3: want to join Parachute Regiment. And after three days they

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Speaker 3: sent me down to all the Shots. And as you know,

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Speaker 3: there's like a forming up period I think every sixth week.

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Speaker 3: And I arrived on the first week and they said, well,

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Speaker 3: look you've come to early but I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 3: While you're here, we'll let you have a look at

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Speaker 3: the assault course. And they took us then into this forest.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking, I'm going, what's this like? You know, and

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Speaker 3: he shown us this assault course and at first it

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Speaker 3: didn't look much. You know, it's in a forest, and

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Speaker 3: they go right we're going to let you go have

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Speaker 3: a go on this. You've got to go around it

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Speaker 3: three times. It was the first time I've ever really

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Speaker 3: kind of pushed myself physically, you know. And I remember

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Speaker 3: finishing it and and I felt dizzy. I felt, you know,

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Speaker 3: really bad, and and they got me in the land

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Speaker 3: road over me and this other guy took us back

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Speaker 3: to the barracks in all the show, and I remember

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Speaker 3: going back and when I got back, I went straight

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Speaker 3: to the toilets and I was sick, I mean violently sick.

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Speaker 3: And I thought to myself, crying out loud, you know,

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Speaker 3: is this what it's all about? And you know something,

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Speaker 3: And for the first three times that I went around

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Speaker 3: the soap course, afterwards, I was sick, violently sick. And

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Speaker 3: they so even then, I'm thinking, oh, do you know, someone,

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Speaker 3: am I to pick the wrong bunch?

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Speaker 4: You're like, this is quite anyhow.

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Speaker 1: It was it was probably the water.

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Speaker 3: Through, but but what it was, I remember we had

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Speaker 3: I think it was just two or three days down there.

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Speaker 3: Then they sent you away on leave and I think

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Speaker 3: I had about a month's leave. Then you come back

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Speaker 3: and that's when you started your six months training and

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Speaker 3: and yeah, I managed to go through the training parachute

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Speaker 3: read six months and you were right that guy in

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Speaker 3: the careers office. Who was right, because by the time

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Speaker 3: you've done five months, the last month that you do

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Speaker 3: accumulating to six months training is you go to Bridze

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Speaker 3: Naughton and the store in the book. Do you know

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Speaker 3: the guy that I mentioned in the careers office up

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Speaker 3: in Bryce's note You're in a big hangar there and

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Speaker 3: Bryce notting for your audience. That's where you do or

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Speaker 3: your parachuting and parachute training. And I was just walking

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Speaker 3: out the hangar there. I see this guy walking towards

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Speaker 3: me and he's got a smile on his face and

285
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Speaker 3: he wants and I'm thinking, I know him, I know him.

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Speaker 3: And he comes straight up to me, put his hand out,

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Speaker 3: shook my hand, and he goes and I knew you were

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Speaker 3: going to get in. I knew when you walked in

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Speaker 3: the careers office. Of course it goned on me. Then

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Speaker 3: this is the careers officer Okay, that was in that Yeah,

291
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Speaker 3: And I'm looking at him and he goes say, yes,

292
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Speaker 3: says I practice what I preach and what it was

293
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Speaker 3: he was coming up to his twenty two years. I

294
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Speaker 3: think he was coming up to Salt Major, you know,

295
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Speaker 3: w twomb and what he's done that was like his

296
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Speaker 3: last posting. I come in and he persuaded me to

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Speaker 3: do the parers. But what he'd done, he joined the TA,

298
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Speaker 3: he done his twenty two years, joined the TA, but

299
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Speaker 3: wanted to tack his wings. And of course he was

300
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Speaker 3: there up at the same day. He was there at

301
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Speaker 3: the same time and he and it was just coincidence

302
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Speaker 3: that he saw May with show hands. We had a

303
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Speaker 3: chat and you know what was nice and I thanked him.

304
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Speaker 3: I says, if it weren't for you, I says, I

305
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,200
Speaker 3: don't think I would have joined the Armed Forces. I says,

306
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Speaker 3: you really did your job. And I says, thanks for

307
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Speaker 3: doing that. And he says, he says when you walked in,

308
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Speaker 3: and he says, I just knew. He says you needed

309
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Speaker 3: some guidance. He says you were unsure, but he says,

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Speaker 3: I seem to know. He says that the powers would

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Speaker 3: have been good for you. And I show hands and

312
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,760
Speaker 3: we parted way. But you know so much. You know

313
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Speaker 3: when these things in your life and certain people that

314
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,200
Speaker 3: you come across, and it's happened all the way through

315
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Speaker 3: my life is that he was one of them that

316
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Speaker 3: did did what he needed to do, and he did

317
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Speaker 3: his job properly, just like me granddad did.

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Speaker 4: Just like it well, and just like my granddad and

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Speaker 4: my dad.

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Speaker 3: Did, and just like the people that had worked with

321
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Speaker 3: maybe in the steel works and whatever you want to

322
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Speaker 3: look back, there were always mentors, There were always people

323
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Speaker 3: that meant well. There were always people that give me

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Speaker 3: good advice. Of course, it's down to you whether you

325
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Speaker 3: take that advice or not. And in this case, it

326
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,160
Speaker 3: was the right thing to do, because then it got

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Speaker 3: me on my journey and that's why I'm here today.

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Speaker 2: You pass out of Depot, which is training, you go

329
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Speaker 2: to Bryse Norton, which I went to Bryse in nineteen

330
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Speaker 2: ninety eight.

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Speaker 1: I know you were probably way way way before that,

332
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Speaker 1: did you? When did you pass pass out of Brise Norton?

333
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:51,880
Speaker 1: When did you get you with?

334
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Speaker 3: Yes, so I join It was May seventy seven when yeah, yeah.

335
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Speaker 1: You don't look old enough for me.

336
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Speaker 4: I'm going to I'm going to give you there. Yeah,

337
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,040
Speaker 4: thanks that, I appreciate that.

338
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you go, what un did you go?

339
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Speaker 4: Tod you go?

340
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 2: Because there's one power two, power three Power. Was it

341
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:11,480
Speaker 2: still like that back and the day.

342
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Speaker 3: I went to one Poor and they did their best.

343
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Speaker 3: You know, guys chose two paw, three pew, and you know,

344
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,960
Speaker 3: they tried the best to do that. And I chose

345
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Speaker 3: One Power for various reasons and and I think it

346
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Speaker 3: was because they were talking about operational deployments around the world,

347
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Speaker 3: and I thought, right, I want to get stuck any like,

348
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,600
Speaker 3: you know, and I said, you know, one pace for me.

349
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,240
Speaker 3: But I joined one parer and and I finished up

350
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,800
Speaker 3: doing eight years with one Power and and and over

351
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,120
Speaker 3: those years, you know, you do the usual things, you know,

352
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,520
Speaker 3: you you go to Germany, you got a side appreciated

353
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,840
Speaker 3: on Kong, you know, island, this vary, and you're just

354
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Speaker 3: traveling the world and you were just loving it.

355
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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah.

356
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Speaker 3: And I'm thinking to myself, do you know, so I've

357
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,520
Speaker 3: done the right thing here, you know, And I did

358
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Speaker 3: various courses and you know, I'm become.

359
00:16:58,440 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 4: A PETE instructor.

360
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:04,399
Speaker 3: And there and one Am were the journey that kind

361
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,160
Speaker 3: of led me to go into to Erafort is that

362
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,560
Speaker 3: I've been a pet instructor. And I was I was

363
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,520
Speaker 3: kind of thinking, you know, shall I go to the

364
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 3: PT chors and what have you? And uh, and and

365
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:16,760
Speaker 3: only because you know, I thought, you know, I'd like

366
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,280
Speaker 3: to get a qualification. You know, at that time, I

367
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 3: took me driving courses. I managed to get the class one.

368
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:26,320
Speaker 3: I'd done some other stuff pet instructure, et cetera, et cetera.

369
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,359
Speaker 3: But but you know, and guys again kept saying to me,

370
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 3: why don't you get eraiford days, you know, why don't

371
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:32,040
Speaker 3: you go?

372
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 4: Yes?

373
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,040
Speaker 3: And I usual then I said, don't be crazy. I'm

374
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,520
Speaker 3: not good out there. Them guys a bunch of owners,

375
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,159
Speaker 3: like you know, they're all they're all, they're all assassins,

376
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:41,880
Speaker 3: them guys, you know.

377
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,560
Speaker 4: And besides, aunt, who are they are they? You know?

378
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,399
Speaker 4: And at that time ant is that I didn't know

379
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 4: enough about them.

380
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,200
Speaker 3: And and and one day and one day I saw

381
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,720
Speaker 3: this guy and he just looked completely different. And uh

382
00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,760
Speaker 3: and I looked at him and he was unshaven, he

383
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,679
Speaker 3: got long air, it got a different uniform, and I

384
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,800
Speaker 3: could see his very were different. But what it was,

385
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,480
Speaker 3: there was just something about him. He acted different. I

386
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,600
Speaker 3: could see the guys know him. And and and I

387
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,840
Speaker 3: said to one of my minutes, says, he I mean, mate,

388
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,160
Speaker 3: said a really dramatic phrase, you know, and I think

389
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,159
Speaker 3: I mentioned in the books. I mentioned it now and

390
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,560
Speaker 3: he says, no, that's not for you days. He says,

391
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,159
Speaker 3: they're in the and they're in the death business. And

392
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 3: I looked at him, I just don't be ridiculous, and

393
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,480
Speaker 3: he goes and I heard it for the second time,

394
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,119
Speaker 3: even though I'd been in par of edge quite a

395
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,840
Speaker 3: long time. He says, oh, he's says, and I looked

396
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:34,840
Speaker 3: at him. I thought, oh, And that was kind of

397
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,159
Speaker 3: the second time that I had that moment. It was

398
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 3: a third time that I saw one of the guys

399
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,400
Speaker 3: on the Rangers and he was in a gilly suit

400
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 3: and he was firing the sniper rifle. Again, looked different,

401
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:49,280
Speaker 3: acted different, guys treat him different. So again the seed

402
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 3: had been sown and it was a slow burner. But

403
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,400
Speaker 3: as usual, even though and guys are saying, why don't

404
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,160
Speaker 3: you go to Erford, I think that would be good

405
00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 3: for you, et cetera, et cetera. And by the way, Aunt,

406
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,120
Speaker 3: this is round about the seventh eighth year.

407
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:02,360
Speaker 4: More.

408
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,120
Speaker 3: Remember I've signed up for nine. So I was coming

409
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,360
Speaker 3: to a crossroads. I was gonna have to make a decision,

410
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 3: you know, Remember sign up for three, six nine. I

411
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,359
Speaker 3: signed for nine, so this is round about the seven

412
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 3: year monk, and I'm thinking to myself, yeah, I better

413
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 3: make a decision.

414
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 4: And really there were three decisions.

415
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:19,679
Speaker 3: They would want to go out in Sivin Street, and

416
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,440
Speaker 3: that scared me and I didn't quite fancy that there

417
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 3: was one staying in Para Rage. In fact, there were four.

418
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 3: One was staying in Power Edge, and I thought, yeah,

419
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 3: that's a good one. You know, you become a sart major.

420
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,880
Speaker 3: You know the route, I'm enjoying the life, et cetera,

421
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 3: et cetera. I'd thought about loosely about going to the

422
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,359
Speaker 3: pt COD but it weren't really serious. But the third

423
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 3: one was going to Eraford. But as usual, AUNT is

424
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 3: then two fears, isn't it It's that fear I'm a

425
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,920
Speaker 3: good enough? And is it that feary what if I fail?

426
00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,399
Speaker 3: And what it is you taught yourself, aren't it? I

427
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,120
Speaker 3: kept hearing all these things about the sees, about it's

428
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,840
Speaker 3: ninety percent failure rate, and all the guys that are

429
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 3: so good up there, they don't come back. And when

430
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 3: I trying to get information and they kind of shrugged

431
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 3: the shoulders and go oh, it's not too bad. You know,

432
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,200
Speaker 3: it's no you can't do. But I used to think,

433
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 3: you know, well, you know, why don't you tell me

434
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 3: about it? And back then, not being the big but

435
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,240
Speaker 3: there was zero information and there was zero. But what

436
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 3: did happen then is that I got a post in

437
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 3: to depot and I started to get serious about applying

438
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 3: volunteering for the SEES. And I remember seeing the adjutants

439
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 3: and I said, look, I've got a posting down to depot,

440
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 3: but I'm thinking about.

441
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 4: Going to the SEES.

442
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 3: And he says, well, look, why don't you go to

443
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 3: the depot, get you two years under your belt as

444
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,879
Speaker 3: a pet instructor, then apply, he says, and depot is

445
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 3: a great place to do it, from a good platform.

446
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 3: You get all the information, you'll you'll meet all the

447
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 3: lads that are going up there, you get yourself fake.

448
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 4: And I thought that's a good idea.

449
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 3: I went up and and I finished then going to depot,

450
00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,880
Speaker 3: and I then did me two years down there, I applied,

451
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 3: as you know, volunteer. I put pen to paper and

452
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,919
Speaker 3: but again to try and find all the information to

453
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,679
Speaker 3: get up there. No one would tell you anything until

454
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,880
Speaker 3: just one day I'm down in depot Brownie Barracks, holder

455
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 3: shot and I've got to knock on my bunk door.

456
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 4: A guy coming.

457
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 3: I didn't even know him, and he said, looks me

458
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,919
Speaker 3: him so and so, and he says, oh, here, you

459
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 3: wanted to go on selection. I goes yeah. He says,

460
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 3: look that's my address. Come down to our house tonight.

461
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 3: He says, I've just come back off selection. He says,

462
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 3: I'll tell you everything I know. I went down to

463
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 3: his ouse. His missus put some tea and cakes on.

464
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 3: We sat there and we must have been there two hours,

465
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 3: and he was telling me all about it, and he

466
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 3: had a little diary and he gave me the diary

467
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 3: and he says, look, that's that's how far I got.

468
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 3: And he got as far as the jungle and he said, look,

469
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 3: he says, take the diary. Here's some equipment. You give

470
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 3: me some jungle boots and some other equipment. And I says,

471
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 3: what about you want? You're coming by? And he said,

472
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have a rest first, he says, and then

473
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 3: I'm going I'll come up and give it a second goal.

474
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 3: But his manner, I think kind of told me. I

475
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 3: thought I've got a feeling. You know, he's got other

476
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 3: plants like you know, and I can really thank this

477
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 3: guy forgive him this little diary and what I did,

478
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 3: like for the first time, Aunt, I've got someone that

479
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 3: I took the time to sit down and tell me,

480
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 3: you know, stuff that I really didn't know.

481
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 4: And he kind of kind.

482
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 3: Of spoon fed me of what I should do and

483
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 3: shouldn't do and and and that was me start of

484
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 3: going up on selection.

485
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 2: And you know what, you hit the nail on the

486
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 2: head there there is when you said about you know,

487
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 2: you're already you know, in a parachute regiment, you're the

488
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 2: elite of the conventional forces.

489
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 1: You're a pt You're a PTI.

490
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 2: You know, you're you're the king of your castle within

491
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: that regiment. Ultimately, you know, you've done all the courses,

492
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 2: You've done all the tools that's out there. And the

493
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 2: fear of failure, right, the fear of going up there

494
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 2: and going right, if I come back, I've got to

495
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 2: come back. I've got to face the lads of you know,

496
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 2: even though there's no shame in failing selection or even

497
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: you know, passing the hill phase and failing for the jungle,

498
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 2: people come back with a lot more experience, you know,

499
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 2: a lot more kudos. They're treated a bit differently just

500
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 2: because they've been on selection, but also that you know

501
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,239
Speaker 2: that that failure rate, you know, ninety to ninety failure rate.

502
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,439
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, you've got two hundred od guys

503
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 2: on selection and you think to yourself, right, I'm going

504
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 2: to be a handful of of you know, you can't

505
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 2: even put on both hands.

506
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: Is it worth the risk?

507
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: So what was the you know, after speaking to this guy,

508
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 2: was that the was that the seed in your head

509
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 2: that you thought, right, listen, let's just let's just get

510
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 2: on and do it.

511
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: Or did you did you wait a little bit?

512
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I was coming to the end of the

513
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 3: two years two of the as an instructor, so it

514
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 3: come around just just right. And and what it was

515
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 3: when I look back on it, and is that panel

516
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 3: redg kind of prepared.

517
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 4: Me well for the regiment.

518
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 3: I think it's like you're with the Marines, you know,

519
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 3: going to the SBS and you know, and I no

520
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,959
Speaker 3: disrespect to any other regiments. You know, we've got some

521
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 3: great regiments. We've got the engineers, that signals, the guards

522
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 3: and as you know, the sass met up of all regiments,

523
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 3: you know, including the ref and the Navy. But I

524
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 3: think what it was for me, I was kind of

525
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 3: a reluctant soldier and looking at those options, you could

526
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 3: see it was quite easy for me to get into

527
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 3: Sivi Street or stay in power rage and it was

528
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 3: so probably far more easier to say, no, I'm not

529
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 3: going to go to the Sees because you know, I'm

530
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 3: not good enough for exetera, et cetera. But what the

531
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 3: Powers had done, it prepared me. And I think there's

532
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: this airborne brotherho didn't it between the regiment and the

533
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: Paris We jump out of aeroplanes and and some of

534
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 3: the training is simpler and and and I've heard over

535
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 3: the years that there's over fifty percent of the parers

536
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 3: that met up the SEES, and I think that's just

537
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 3: purely is that we have more exposure, and we have

538
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 3: more exposure to the regiment, even though for me it

539
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 3: wasn't very much. But we do have the head here, yeah,

540
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 3: but we do have that aborn brotherhood, which is a similarity.

541
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 3: And of course for me, that guy come in and

542
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 3: I'm glad he did. And it's that pivotal thing again,

543
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 3: like the guy in the career's office. And this guy

544
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 3: took his time. I didn't even know me, but I heard.

545
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 3: I was very interested. Sat down when we took the time.

546
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 3: And again it was that little bit of a shove,

547
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 3: that little bit of a shunt that this guy could

548
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 3: see that I'm thinking, well, if he thinks I'm capable,

549
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 3: and he's just being on it, and I've asked him

550
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 3: every question under the sun, and I better go for it.

551
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 3: And do you know something, I remember them down in

552
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 3: depot volunteering, as you know, it's volunteer.

553
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 4: Uh, you know, nobody forces you to go. Yeah, that's it.

554
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 4: And yeah, I'm going to go. Nobody forces you to go.

555
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 3: In fact, in fact, Parrot Ridge don't like you to go,

556
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 3: you know, because they see it that you're abandoning the

557
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 3: ship sort of thing, and you know, they don't really

558
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 3: help you to go. And and and I remember going

559
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 3: and seeing the adjunt down there at depot and volunteering,

560
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 3: and he put a paper in front of me and

561
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 3: and I remember reading it and it said, yeah, something

562
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 3: along the lines, you were now volunteering for permanent active service,

563
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 3: you know, with the Special Air Service. And I kind

564
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 3: of paused with a pen and I remember the adjutant

565
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: kind of saying, desert are your key, and I goes yeah,

566
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 3: and I quickly signed and what it were at that time,

567
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 3: I just started a view. I'm thinking, Jen knows if

568
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 3: I get in, this is going to change my life.

569
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 3: And I remember signing it and and that was it,

570
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 3: and and then I remember getting up with it. There

571
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 3: was there was about handful of other guys that were

572
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 3: going to go up, and I remember we'd we'd managed

573
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 3: to get some time off. It wasn't much, I think

574
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 3: about three weeks, and and we went up to Brecken

575
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 3: and we walked over the hills as as you normally do,

576
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 3: you know, just getting the you know, as one guy

577
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 3: said to me. In fact, it was this guy that

578
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 3: that took me kind of and and and let me know,

579
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 3: yeah yeah, and he just said, don't rush it, just

580
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 3: get the hills into your legs, et cetera. And I went,

581
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 3: you know, for your audience, there's two selections, one in winter,

582
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 3: one in summer. In winter, it's normally about two hundred

583
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 3: and fifty on mine. Added the winter one these there

584
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 3: was two hundred and eighty roundabouts. In the summer one

585
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 3: it can be double that, and I had this sinking aunt.

586
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 3: I thought, you know, somemer, I think I'm a winter

587
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 3: soldier any had I think I worked better in the winter.

588
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 3: And besides, yeah, and besides, there's less there's less people

589
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 3: on the winter one. I'm thinking I'm bound to have

590
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 3: a better chance. And you know, my aunt, I'll tell

591
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 3: you the story is that the first day, i think

592
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 3: probably the tenth of January, wherever it is, twelfth of January,

593
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 3: you turn up and and we're adding the quadrang on

594
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: all of us. There must have been two hundred and

595
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 3: eighty guys here, and there's an instructor stood there. And firstly,

596
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 3: it's quite strange because this guy talked normally to us

597
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 3: and he said, welcome everyone, Welcome to selection. And I'm thinking, oh,

598
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 3: this is quite strange. It's talking polite to us, like,

599
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 3: you know, weren't shouting or anything. And they said, yeah,

600
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 3: welcome to winter selection. And he says, before I give

601
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 3: you a briefing, can everyone just look around at each other.

602
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 4: I'm thinking that's a bit strange.

603
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 3: So everyone's looking around at each other like this, and

604
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 3: you know, we're all looking and I'm thinking he's a

605
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,719
Speaker 3: big lad. He looks apart, and he looks like and

606
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 3: they were wearing other go faster kit and what have you.

607
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 3: And then we will look back at the instructor and

608
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 3: he says with inside four to five weeks, there's going

609
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 3: to be under fifty men left. And he says by

610
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 3: the end of selection, they is likely to be less

611
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 3: than twelve people left. And do you know something, the

612
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 3: very next day, the reason they did that was to

613
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 3: start selection to cite you out. The very next day,

614
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 3: I remember there was two or three guys didn't turn up.

615
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 3: They it cited them out because they just thought, well,

616
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 3: ang on, if there's two hundred and eighty guys here

617
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 3: and after the within four to five weeks they're going

618
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 3: to be left, and fifth day and then by the

619
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 3: end of selection there's going to be about twelve and

620
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 3: so so like that, why should I bother.

621
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 4: Sort of thing?

622
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 3: And you know, some in my mind I just thought, yeah,

623
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: only's trying to do his psychers out, psychers out, like

624
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 3: you know, And in actual fight, after forty five weeks,

625
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 3: it worn't far wrong. I think there was forty seven

626
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 3: guys left by the time we went out to the jungle,

627
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 3: and I got as farre as the jungle and then

628
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 3: in the jungle, and I had a mishap out there

629
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 3: is that we were doing some drills out in the

630
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: jungle and I was, you know, certain you know, for

631
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 3: your audience, military drills, if you like. And I was

632
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 3: running through the canopy if you like. And what I

633
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 3: did I got a splinter, the thorne if you like,

634
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 3: quite a large stone. It went through me wrist. And

635
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that that'd hurt meself. It was only

636
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 3: until after the drills that we've done that one of

637
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: the instructors says, and there were blood dropping from my

638
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 3: wrist sort of thing. Anyhow, the medic come and he

639
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 3: tried to get this thone out of me. Risk and

640
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 3: uh and he said no, look, he says, we've got

641
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: a kazi that you and and and and I hadn't

642
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: done enough of the jungle. And I'm thinking, oh no,

643
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 3: And I says, look, well, you know, why don't you

644
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 3: just have a go at it?

645
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 4: Am fine? So that he goes, no, no, We've we've

646
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 4: got to get you out, you know.

647
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 3: And I went to a medican and they did a

648
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 3: you know, managed to get the throne an't my wrist,

649
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 3: And and I said, look, you know, kind of cool

650
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 3: back into the canopy and uh and and they said no,

651
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 3: So it doesn't matter how you fail, you fail. And

652
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 3: then we got back to UK and and I went

653
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 3: to see the the training officer, and he says, look,

654
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 3: bad luck, Daz. He says, we'll why don't you take

655
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 3: a year off and come back? And I actually said

656
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 3: to him, I says, look, I says, can I come

657
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 3: back straight away on the next winter selection? And he says, look,

658
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 3: he says that's not really the thing to do. He

659
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 3: says I would add visier to come back. And I

660
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 3: says no, I says, I. If I don't do this,

661
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: I says, the time is a quiet wrong and hence

662
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: I've got to make a decision about saying in the military,

663
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera.

664
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 4: And I says, and I'll lux.

665
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 3: Momentum and uh and and luckily this yeah, and luckily

666
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 3: this training officer it was expart of rage. And he

667
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 3: remembered me when I was in one para and you know,

668
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 3: there were no favoritism doing and what everybody's allowed two

669
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 3: goods and he and he was doing the right thing

670
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: by saying, look, I don't advise you to come back

671
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 3: straight away. But it COSSI knew me. He kind of

672
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 3: posed and he says, okay that he says, you can

673
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 3: come straight back on the winter one, which which meant

674
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: six months later i'd come back on the winter one.

675
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 3: I went back on the second one and got through

676
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 3: to the jungle again on the second one ant and

677
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 3: then I finished up having another misshapp in the jungle.

678
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 3: And this time what yeah, yeah, yeah, and what i'd done?

679
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 3: You remember, aunt is a balloon that you inflate and

680
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 3: it comes through the cannope, and when a helicopter comes along,

681
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 3: you can see that there's a patrol here in the

682
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 3: canopy because you can't see in the jungle. And what

683
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 3: it says these certain crystals that you had water too,

684
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 3: when it's a chemical and it inflates the balloon and

685
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 3: the balloon goes up there with the canopy. I managed

686
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 3: to get these chemicals on my leg and and burnt

687
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 3: and burnt, burnt my leg I thought would have been

688
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 3: a bit by some insects, you know, and and and

689
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 3: me and I'm Rubby millleg and and they were a

690
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 3: medic nearby. I said, look, mate, I says, I don't

691
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 3: know what I've done. He says, right, pull your trousers down.

692
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 4: So they did.

693
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 3: I'm when my trousers down, and uh and me leg

694
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 3: was red raw. It was red raw. And he said,

695
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 3: what what you've been doing? I said, I don't know.

696
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 3: I says, you know, I don't know. Suddenly the artism

697
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 3: appears and as you know, the artis semis got into

698
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 3: you know, and uh, and he turns up. He says, right,

699
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 3: power what you're doing. I says, I don't know. I says,

700
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 3: And he looked, and he just said that looks bad.

701
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 3: And he started to blister. My legs started a blister

702
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 3: around and he goes, right, get down to the basher,

703
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 3: get your kits, get your burger, you get in on

704
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 3: that helicopter. And they were an helicopter just landing on

705
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 3: the helipad in the jungle, you know it was. And

706
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 3: I look, no, no, I'm okay. He goes, get your kids,

707
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 3: get on that chopper, and all of a sudden I

708
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 3: had a flashback from the first one. I think, oh, no,

709
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: we go like you know and the story. I got

710
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 3: no trousers on, I got no underwear on. I just

711
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 3: got jungle boots with a shirt on. I got my kit,

712
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 3: went to the chopping and I went to the helicopter

713
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 3: and there's certain drules that you have to get their

714
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 3: attention and they allow you to come on. And I

715
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 3: could see the pilots. I could see the reds going

716
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: like this, looking at each other like that. And I

717
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 3: got on the helicopter.

718
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 4: That's it.

719
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 3: I got on the helicopter and I could I could

720
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 3: I could see the load master, dear and and I

721
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 3: could see him talking as much as to say anyhow,

722
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 3: he took me loan beild to the same med center okay,

723
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: and we went there, landed go off and you can

724
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 3: now these nurses collecting me from the holy part. I

725
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 3: got no bottoms on. I'm looking a bit weird. Luckily, Aunt,

726
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: I'd only got a couple of days left in the jungle,

727
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 3: and I've done that with two days to spare. What

728
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 3: I've done, I've got chemicals on my leg blistered UK

729
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 3: really bad. They managed to sort it out, and what

730
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 3: they did, the instructors gave me the thumbs up. They

731
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 3: actually said, look, it was unlucky that you've got burnt chemical,

732
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 3: but you've done everything that had been acquired of you.

733
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 3: You'd only two days to go on on the selection

734
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 3: before everybody come out of the jungle anyhow, And and

735
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 3: then I went on to the rest of selection. And

736
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,959
Speaker 3: as you know, Aunt, when you come back to UK,

737
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 3: it's brutal. You go into the lecture theater and they

738
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 3: just go they just got Smith Jones and to so

739
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 3: and so outside, and I remember, just for your audience,

740
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 3: there was less than ten of us there and they

741
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 3: just turned to and congratulations, you've passed jungle. What we'd

742
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 3: like you to do now is you'll be starting to

743
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: lessons on combat survival this afternoon. Go and get some

744
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 3: lunch and we want your back here about two o'clock.

745
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 4: And that was it. That was going And I thought,

746
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 4: I thought, right now, I've just got to get through

747
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 4: to the end.

748
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 2: But now, what was it like passing selection days before

749
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 2: we get onto to operation does it storm?

750
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: What did you feel? And how many of you were there?

751
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: And because for me that moment you just the gods.

752
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 2: That you looked up to you for that split second,

753
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 2: you feel like one of them.

754
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's uh.

755
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 3: And it's a great question and and and and people

756
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 3: ask me this all the time, and the way I

757
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 3: can describe it is that all of a sudden, the

758
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 3: penny seems to drop and you got ah, Now, I Garrit,

759
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 3: Why people want to come up here, I gear it,

760
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 3: why they want to do this sort of work, I Gary,

761
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 3: why they want to become part of special forces? You

762
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 3: care you know sees SPS. And what it say is

763
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 3: just to describe, is that you're mixing with people that

764
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 3: have climbed Everest. You're mixing with people that have road

765
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 3: parts of the Atlantic. You're mixing with people that have

766
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 3: done free for all records. And what a line to

767
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 3: board it from joining is that they bring you up

768
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 3: as well. Is that what I like about the regiments.

769
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 3: He doesn't hold you back. They want you to be

770
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 3: the best at everything you do. And everybody is the best.

771
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 3: Everybody feels that they were the best units in the world,

772
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 3: and they are learning the best skills and they have

773
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 3: the best people around them. This is comaradera okay, which

774
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 3: is all I can describe, which is like family. All

775
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 3: you have to do is prove to them that you

776
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 3: are of that mindset and by doing that your past

777
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 3: selection so they see that, yes, this is the type

778
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 3: of guy we've come through. The satisfactory as we call it,

779
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 3: it's the round, pegging the round. All Now, we are

780
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 3: going to give him everything that he wan, and all

781
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 3: you have to do is turn up each day and

782
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 3: just give it your best.

783
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 2: I'm smiling and you're making me miss miss the military

784
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: for the first time in a long time, Dez, because

785
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: all those emotions are flooding back to me as you're speaking,

786
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 2: and it's so true, and it forces you to grow,

787
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 2: to become a better version of who you are, a

788
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 2: better soldier. You know, that sort of process never never stops.

789
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: So you change your maroon berry and your maroon stable

790
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: belt for a sandy berry and a blue stable belt,

791
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 2: and then off you go to B Squadron. Let's fast

792
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: forward to Operation Desert Storm. Talk to me about that

793
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: that deployment. When did you get deployed? Why did you

794
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 2: get deployed? And you know at this stage you were

795
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 2: a two IC in the group.

796
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 3: Correct, Yes, what it was is that Go for one

797
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety one, and so that much saying from Iraika

798
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 3: was the leader at that time invaded Kuwit and just

799
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 3: about the world got involved. It was run mainly by USA,

800
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 3: but UK was getting involved in a big way, and

801
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 3: especially UK Special Forces. I remember us having a meeting

802
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 3: in the gym, and the colonel said that the regiment

803
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 3: is going to get involved every level, and we were

804
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 3: deployed out to Saudi Arabia, and then more or less

805
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 3: at the last minute it was changed and we were

806
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 3: told that we were going to go out to the

807
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 3: Golfer as well, and we were going to go as

808
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 3: casualty replacements, because A squadron and D squadron had already

809
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 3: had a few months preparing and they were going to

810
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 3: go across the border from Saudi Arabia into Iraq and

811
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 3: fight and check on targets all with to bag Dad.

812
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 3: We were solely going to be there as replacing guys

813
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 3: that were injured or that were killed. The war escalated

814
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 3: quite fast, and Osaidama, saying from your right, started firing

815
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 3: scud missiles okay onto neighboring countries okay, mainly on Ti Israel,

816
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 3: and he was trying to bring Israel into the war

817
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 3: and that would obviously destabilize the Middle East. The plan

818
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 3: was to go and find these scuds, and what they

819
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 3: decided to do was have three patrols put them two

820
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 3: hundreds and so miles beyond the border of Saudi close

821
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 3: to Baghdad and we were supposed to observe the MSRs

822
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 3: the main supply routes, and these scuds were mobile rockets

823
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 3: that you could take anywhere in the desert. You could

824
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 3: arrange them, set them up within thirty minutes or so,

825
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 3: fire these rockets and they could move on. They said, right,

826
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 3: we're gonna have three patrols from B Squadron, and the

827
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 3: patrols was Bravo one, Bravo two and Bravo three zero.

828
00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:59,479
Speaker 4: Okay, I was a two.

829
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 3: Ice in BRA three zero and what it was we

830
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 3: was helicoptered by two channel calicopters. Three patrols were taken out.

831
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 3: We were two hundreds and hundred soul miles beyond Sauday

832
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 3: and we were sent to go and try and locate

833
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 3: these scuds, which was a very very tall order.

834
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:28,479
Speaker 2: So Bravo one zero, the first team, they aborted the mission,

835
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 2: didn't they because the desert was too flat, there was

836
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: no cover, and they just deemed it was it was

837
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 2: just too risky a process.

838
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: Bravo two zero. We know what happened with Broo to zero.

839
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 2: You know they were comproms, usually compromised, and you know,

840
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 2: unfortunately three members didn't make it out and the other

841
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 2: four members were captured by the enemy. We know that

842
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: story extremely well. And then you were part of Bravo

843
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 2: three zero, So tell me about your patrol and your

844
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 2: mission and how that transpired, because no one knows about

845
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 2: Borrow three zero.

846
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 3: Yes, so rockets were being fired on to Israel as

847
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 3: well as other neighboring countries, and if Israel had come

848
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 3: into the war, it would have united the Middle East

849
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 3: and they would have been thousands and thousands.

850
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 4: Of people killed.

851
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 3: So they said, right, we'd already got a squadron d

852
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 3: squadron set up in vehicles on the border of Saudi

853
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 3: and they were going to make their wear up slowly

854
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 3: and tech on opportune targets. But we had to find Okay,

855
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 3: these scud missiles, Bravo one zero and Brovo two zero

856
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 3: went in on foot and they were hoping to put

857
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 3: in op an observation posts dig into the ground, but

858
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 3: because of certain intelligence, the intelligence was wrong and he

859
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 3: wasn't able.

860
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 4: To do that.

861
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 3: We took out vehicles, and because we did have vehicles,

862
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 3: it made us more maneuverable and we're able to move

863
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 3: around the desert and the desert as you know, and

864
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 3: can get very very busy. So what we did over

865
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,439
Speaker 3: a period of ten days or so is that we

866
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 3: observed the best we could in the desert, trying to

867
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 3: look for various not only scud missiles, but for various

868
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 3: military sites. What we did when we saw a possible

869
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 3: scud team all military sites, we would send messages back

870
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 3: by radio give coordinates and that would initiate air strikes

871
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 3: to come in and to get rid of the enemy.

872
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 3: So for us out there is that the patrols, because

873
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 3: they were independent, we didn't know what each patrol we're

874
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 3: doing because it was quite far away from each other

875
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 3: regarding but our patrol itself, we there were various things

876
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 3: that happened on the patrol. One of them is that

877
00:42:55,360 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 3: we had the coldest winter in Iraq history and he

878
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 3: started snowing. And I'm saying that because the weather kind

879
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 3: of changes everything, especially when the intelligence tells us that

880
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 3: it was going to be like a spring in UK

881
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 3: and plus out in the desert, it's surprising how busy

882
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 3: it is, and there is a lot of people that

883
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,479
Speaker 3: live out in the desert, and we were bumping into

884
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 3: troops all the time. The good thing about Iraqi troops.

885
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 3: Is that there was a lot of them, and they

886
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,919
Speaker 3: all have different uniforms, insignia, et cetera. And we were

887
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 3: in vehicles that weren't particularly menacing and mentioned in the

888
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 3: boat that they weren't really kind of combat ready, And

889
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 3: because we wore all different types of uniform with shamags

890
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 3: and what have you, we managed to keep undetected and

891
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 3: they actually thought we were Iraqi troops. But there were

892
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 3: a few times that we nearly got shot by our

893
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 3: own aircraft. So it was a case of trying to

894
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 3: find enemy locations, including scud missile. Okay, evade from the

895
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 3: enemy who was around you everywhere. Evade from your own

896
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 3: troops because they don't know you there and they think

897
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 3: you are Iraqi troops, so they're firing it, yeah, trying

898
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 3: to bomb your oor, shoot at you, and so forth.

899
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 3: And at the same time you're trying to do a job.

900
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 3: And just to make it clear is that we didn't

901
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 3: realize that Bravo one zero had kind of changed their

902
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 3: plan and actually come back because they couldn't achieve it,

903
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 3: and we didn't realize fully what was happening with bravoed

904
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 3: to zero simply because there were other problems with communications.

905
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 3: So what eventually happened is we've got compromise. We had

906
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 3: to make our way back. We managed to do it.

907
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 3: When the vehicles, one of them broke down, we managed

908
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 3: to tow one in over the other. What we're hoping

909
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 3: to do is locate with a squadron or d squadron

910
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 3: who were behind us. But again we was concerned about

911
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 3: a blow and blue with they could have thought that

912
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 3: we were enemy. As it happened, we managed to bypass

913
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 3: and find our way back to Souda.

914
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,439
Speaker 2: But that was the epitome of a special Forces unit.

915
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 2: You know, you'd go in completely self sustainable, limited communications,

916
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 2: you had, you had a mission to conduct. It was

917
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,919
Speaker 2: a case of right, you're out, you know when you're back,

918
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 2: you're back. This is what we need from you, this

919
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 2: is what we do. And I want people to understand

920
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 2: this that that that was the epitome of of of

921
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 2: the sas is literally to go on these missions, to

922
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 2: be left alone and to hopefully come back with everyone

923
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 2: with the information and intel that was required to conduct

924
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 2: their strikes, to conduct an attack whatever it may be.

925
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 2: So it sounds bizarre nowadays saying that you know the

926
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 2: communication between the teams and the HQ, but that that

927
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,959
Speaker 2: wasn't the role of an sas sort of team. Back

928
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 2: back then, it was a case of right, your big boys,

929
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 2: here's the mission.

930
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: See you when we see.

931
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, agreed on and and just to kind of put

932
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 3: it in contexts if you like. One evening, we were

933
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 3: in the vehicles and bag Dad was getting a hell

934
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 3: of a pasting. You know, we could see air strikes

935
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 3: going in and we were helpless to do anything. We

936
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 3: were just sadly watching, you know, and nothing was said

937
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 3: in the two vehicles. You know, there's eight of us,

938
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 3: four in each vehicle, and but we could see them.

939
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 3: We could see bag Dad retaliating, we could see air

940
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 3: strikes coming in. And the next night we spoke about it,

941
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 3: and we wondered whether we're because of the corrupt messages.

942
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 3: We weren't sure whether our messages were getting through and

943
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 3: not only fully, or whether getting through correctly, because our

944
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 3: job really was to find scuds and then to give

945
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 3: locations as coordinates and then they would initiate air strikes.

946
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,280
Speaker 3: But what we did agree on is that we must

947
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 3: do our best because we could see that in bag

948
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 3: Dad there were obviously people getting killed. That evening when

949
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 3: we were watching it, and and we knew that if

950
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 3: other countries would come in to the war because of

951
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 3: the scud missile has been fired into their country, is

952
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 3: that thousands more people would die. So we said, okay,

953
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 3: is this has been put on to us, that we

954
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 3: have got this almost impossible task of trying to find

955
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 3: these sCOD rockets a needle in a haystack. But let's

956
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 3: do our best. Let's put our hands on our hearts

957
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 3: and let's just say we'll do our best, because we

958
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 3: know that Baghdad is going to be bombed over and

959
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 3: over and over, and we knew that more people would

960
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 3: get killed, and then if other countries got involved, it

961
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 3: would escalate beyond belief. I mean, they talked even before

962
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,439
Speaker 3: we went out in the field about World War three,

963
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 3: and we used to laugh and joke and we said,

964
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 3: don't be silly, world War three. But the more and

965
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 3: more it went on, the more we realized that that

966
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 3: was a possibility. And we used to joke amongst ourselves

967
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,760
Speaker 3: and said, no pressure on us. Then there's only World

968
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 3: War three at state, you know. And so what we

969
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 3: knew is that we to do our best, do it

970
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 3: to the best of our ability and and to not

971
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 3: return back to Bees until we had done everything in

972
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: our power that we could have done, until we'd run

973
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 3: out and food, petrol, bullets, the likes, and then we'd

974
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 3: return as it opened as it We've got compromise and

975
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 3: we're on the run. Anyhow, was I give details in

976
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 3: the book how we were getting chased and and we

977
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 3: had to kind of then uh pulled back, if you like,

978
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 3: and then a vehicle broke down, and then and then

979
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 3: we had all sorts of problems and uh and and

980
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 3: uh in the book at all intelligent detail.

981
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: Mate.

982
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 2: That's a great segue to finish up on, you know,

983
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 2: going into detail with your book, your book My Trial

984
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 2: by Fire. Now the book is about your life lessons

985
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 2: from the SAS, and you go into detail about what

986
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: we've just spoken about. So I'm definitely going to pick

987
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 2: up a copy and read it. What what inspired you

988
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,399
Speaker 2: to write the book? And do do you go into

989
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 2: detail about the whole that whole mission and the realizing

990
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 2: the extent of what happened to Bravo to zero.

991
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, what happened in the first book se s

992
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 3: Bravo three zero is that our co wrote it with

993
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 3: Damian Lewis and and it become a best seller. We

994
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 3: were really pleased and we got some really yeah, well

995
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 3: we've got some really good response. That was about three

996
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 3: years ago, and and and the publishing company, in fact,

997
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 3: me and Damien we're going to do a book together,

998
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 3: but we kind of got out and sent Damien out

999
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 3: of the books to do, and I had other things

1000
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:38,240
Speaker 3: to do. But we managed to to the publishing company

1001
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 3: come up with an idea. And I said, well, look,

1002
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 3: why don't we do this book days and and and

1003
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 3: why don't we do something along the lines of like

1004
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 3: lessons learned? And I said, well, look, why don't I

1005
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 3: do a book where I tell stories so people can

1006
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 3: pick up the book and just read stories of what's

1007
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 3: happened to me over the years, in power, rage, in

1008
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,280
Speaker 3: the se s, on the circuit, some funnye some quite testing.

1009
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 3: And then what I've done then is if people want

1010
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 3: to learn something from it and go, well do you

1011
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 3: know so, as you know, we've got the SF mindset nowadays,

1012
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 3: if people want to look at it that way, At

1013
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 3: the end of each chapter, I said, from that story

1014
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 3: that you've just read, that is quite testing. These are

1015
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 3: the lessons that I learned, and this is what I think,

1016
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 3: this is what I feel, This is the way I

1017
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 3: go about it. And people can scale it because people say,

1018
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 3: hang on, des you know, not everybody's going to join

1019
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 3: the military or the Sees.

1020
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 4: No, all you do is scale it to your life,

1021
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 4: and I.

1022
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: Think people memoir help.

1023
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, people can read it and go do

1024
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 3: you know somebody? Yeah, I can relate to that because

1025
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 3: that I'm in my life and what I mean. But

1026
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 3: people can just pick it up, read it to an

1027
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 3: interesting book. People can pick it up and go, well,

1028
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 3: you know, it's got to touch a personal development on

1029
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 3: lessons learning, and that format of the lessons learned is

1030
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 3: what we use as a success format within the Sees.

1031
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 3: When we go away on a mission, okay, on a task,

1032
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 3: is that we come back and we go what were

1033
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 3: the lessons learned.

1034
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 4: From that mission?

1035
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: Not debriefing.

1036
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 3: Yes, a debreeth and sometimes it going to be heated,

1037
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 3: but we're gone. That worked, but more importantly what didn't work?

1038
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 3: So is the lessons learned I think is a very

1039
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 3: very good successful format that the regiment uses on everything

1040
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 3: it does. In other words, how can we better ourselves

1041
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 3: next time? And I've used some of that within this book.

1042
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 3: I've kind of stamped it on the book so anyone

1043
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 3: can pick it up just enjoy the stories. I can

1044
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 3: see as a lessons learned personal development. But I think

1045
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 3: whichever way they look at it, I think they'll find

1046
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 3: it interesting.

1047
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 2: Mate, one hundred percent. I know you you're an interesting bloke.

1048
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 2: Your book's going to be here and may your first

1049
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,479
Speaker 2: book was great. My Trial by Fire is your new book.

1050
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 2: Go out there and grab it, Dek. Do you know

1051
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 2: what I'm going to catch up with you. Make sure

1052
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 2: that I catch up with you when I'm in the

1053
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 2: UK next loads to catch up on, mate. But thanks

1054
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 2: ever so much for coming on my podcast, head Game,

1055
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 2: and hope you'll see you soon.

1056
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 4: No, thank you very very much for invite with today.

1057
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 4: I've really enjoyed it.

1058
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 2: Des Pal's latest book, My Trial by Fire, is available now.

1059
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me on this episode of head Game.

1060
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode, please share.

1061
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: It with a friend. I'm at Middleton. See you again

1062
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: next time.