1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Our nineteen year old says, I want to do exactly 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: what your mum did, just from a psychologically much healthier 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: place than you two. 4 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 2: Okay, explain man, what do they look? What have they 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 2: seen that we're not? For your record, Hello and welcome 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 2: to separate bathrooms. We would like to acknowledge the Gadigal 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: people of the Eora nation, the traditional custodians of this land, 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: and pay our respects to the elders, both past and present. 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: My name's Cam Daddo. I'm Ali Daddo. The Sydney Morning 10 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: Herald said about the couple we are speaking with today, 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 2: it's a fair bet that if Jesus Christ were around today, 12 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: he'd be doing what the Owens are doing in Mount Druitt. 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 2: They feed the poor and how's the homeless. They lead 14 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 2: the lost and counsel the conflicted. 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 3: They're experts at unconditional love, alcoholic moms, runaway kids, petty thieves. 16 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 3: Everyone has been welcomed at the Owens home. It was 17 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 3: they're now out of it, but they lived in a 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,559 Speaker 3: four bedroom brick house that for well over a decade 19 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 3: has been equal parts street kitchen and safehouse, as well 20 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 3: as a home to their three children. 21 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, these words were written or over a decade ago. 22 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: They haven't changed. Evidently they are still doing amazing work. 23 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 2: We're going to meet the Owens. John is a pastor 24 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 2: and the current CEO of the Wayside Chapel in Sydney. 25 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 3: And Lisa has a PhD in pharmacology and worked as 26 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 3: a research scientist at Melbourne's Baker Institute. She's also worked 27 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 3: as a chapelain herself at EMU Planes Jail and she 28 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 3: also now works at Wayside Chapel as well. 29 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 2: Exactly, we have a feeling the Owens are going to 30 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: provide us with a perspective of life and relationship that 31 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: we don't usually hear. Let's welcome John and Lisa to 32 00:01:52,960 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: the bathroom. Lisa and John, this is not the first 33 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 2: time that John and I have met. John, just take 34 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 2: us through that. And what was your first impression of 35 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: Cameron Daddo? 36 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: Where did I remember walking out? So I had the 37 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: front of the chapel on a cold winter's evening. It's 38 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: the Wayside at the Wayside Chapel. Yes, and there was 39 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: this very disheveled and deer in the headlights, little puppy 40 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: dog sitting there in the in the horseshoe, wrapped up 41 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: in a beanie and too many layers, and just kind 42 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: of had no idea what was going on. And I 43 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: realized later it was Cameron in the middle of his filthy, 44 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: rich and homeless. You should have seen this guy's face, right, 45 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: it was you know, you were responding appropriately to the 46 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: situation and the conditions. And I remember watching it back 47 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: and seeing that you were dealing with rats under the 48 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: Blond Eye Pavilion that evening. 49 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: And really immersing myself with the people who were living 50 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: there as well, who were doing it tough. 51 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I really appreciated the way you just dived 52 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: into that whole world, right. It wasn't you know, how 53 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: do I get my creature comforts in? You're saying I'm in, 54 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: I'm all in, and you were all in, you know, 55 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: and you know it was I had to chuckle afterwards. 56 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 2: Of course you didficate and I and the thing was 57 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: about that too. I knew that in however many days, 58 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 2: I was going to have a front door of my 59 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: own and fruit in the bowl, and Ali was going 60 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 2: to be there with me, and our kids were going 61 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,399 Speaker 2: to be there, and I knew that it was very 62 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 2: much an impermanent situation for me, and I had that 63 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: perspective which made me feel a deeper empathy for the 64 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 2: people that were actually there at the Wayside Chapel. 65 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: But you could see in that your eyes you were 66 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: really you were looking for a bit of affirmation and connection, 67 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: you know, particularly when you've spent that much time out 68 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: there alone, or you know, you think everyone seems to 69 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: against me. Who's there for? 70 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, hadn't It had been a tough time. I 71 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 2: remember actually having a walked I think. No, I did 72 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: get the train from North Bondi up to the cross 73 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: with a guy that I was sleeping beside me in 74 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: the back of the pavilion there, and. 75 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: With that identification. It's really common for our guys if 76 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: they're stopped without a ticket, to be strip searched as well. So, 77 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: you know, even just to get a meal sometimes it 78 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: requires a loss of dignity. Sadly. 79 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredible, Lisa, Welcome to the bathroom. Hello and 80 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 2: this you this is your first time podcast. How are 81 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: you feeling nervous? 82 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 3: It's okay. 83 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: Well you're with my wife. 84 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 2: She's the greatest at. 85 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 1: Because she's so kind. 86 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 3: Thanks, honey, I'm going to go straight to Lisa with 87 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 3: this question, because I feel like it's one you will 88 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 3: answer beautifully. How did you and John meet? 89 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 4: So? John and I were working together in Melbourne, so 90 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 4: we first met. I'd already been working for the organization 91 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 4: that we met in for several years and John came 92 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 4: along to do a two week course with us and 93 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:09,679 Speaker 4: then stayed for fifteen years. 94 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 3: So was it a bit of love at first sight 95 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 3: or was it one that was a slow grow? 96 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 4: Or look, he was cute, There was no doubt about that. 97 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 4: He's still cute. But I'm five years older than John, 98 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 4: so when we met, he needed a few more footy seasons. 99 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 4: So we actually became really good friends, and then from 100 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 4: a place of friendship we started dating. And here we 101 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 4: are twenty three years last weekend. 102 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: Thank you. 103 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 3: That's no short feat. 104 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 4: It's a good start. 105 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: What were you both doing at that time? 106 00:05:54,440 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: We first met on December two, nineteen ninety six, ninety seven, 107 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: right in four a Lightwood parade, Springvale, I remember it, 108 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: and I was registering for the course where it was 109 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: a two week it was called a mission exposure course 110 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: where the organization that Lisa was working for, which was 111 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: a part of founding Urban Neighbors of Hope was an 112 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 1: organization that was actually an emissional order that lived and 113 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: took on lifestyle commitments in what we'd call marginalized neighborhoods. 114 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 1: That's what we caught it back then, anyway, And so 115 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: not only made a commitment to serving in that community, 116 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: but made that commitment to living in that neighborhood as well. 117 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: So the two weeks I just lived in with one 118 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: of their neighbors, who was a bunch of young guys 119 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: who had come over as refugees from me and Malboma, 120 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: and did a few inputs in the morning and a 121 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: bit of service in the afternoon. But I'll still remember 122 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: the first words you ever said to me, Darling, which was, oh, 123 00:06:54,279 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: you're that guy two hundred dollars please, I'll never forget. 124 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 4: I love stelling that. 125 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,559 Speaker 3: And why was he that guy? 126 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 2: And what was the two hundred dollars for? 127 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 4: So the two hundred dollars was for the course, and 128 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 4: he was the guy who turned up late. 129 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: You're late. 130 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 3: We'll hear more about the work that you do today 131 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 3: and what you've done, But can you just take us 132 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 3: back into your backgrounds a little bit? And both of 133 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:34,559 Speaker 3: you are so much about community, about kindness, about care. 134 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 3: What kind of upbringings did you both have that that 135 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 3: brought about your desire to work in the fields that 136 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 3: you both work in. 137 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 4: I grew up in a Christian household, and my parents 138 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 4: were very involved with the church. But part of what 139 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 4: they did too was that they often had people come 140 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 4: and stay with us. I remember people, one person who 141 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 4: was a student, somebody else who was in the process 142 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 4: of stopping drinking alcohol, someone else who was leaving a 143 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 4: difficult relationship. And so I often said to my parents 144 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 4: in the years later, I kind of was scripted to 145 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 4: do what I ended up doing in terms of wasn't 146 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 4: surprising given the example that I saw them set. So 147 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 4: my mum had one of those pantries that if extra 148 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 4: people showed up at dinner time, the meal grew. So, yeah, 149 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 4: I feel like I grew up with a really good 150 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 4: example of that. 151 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful. 152 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: How about you, John, Yeah, I moved over here from Malaysia, 153 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: where I was born when I was very young. I 154 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: don't really have any memories of that time, and Mum 155 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: and dad set up here, and the kind of way 156 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: that people migrated over here is they'd come and stay 157 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: with you before they settled in, so we always had 158 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: family coming through living with this, so until they were 159 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: able to find a place of their own. Grandma moved 160 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: in with this pretty shortly afterwards and lived the next 161 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: twenty five thirty years with this till she passed away. 162 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: So family and caring for others was always really at 163 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: the heart of it, and a lot of hospitality was 164 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: involved in that. And not all of my mum's family 165 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: that came over were coming over for reasons of wanting 166 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: to establish a new life so much as wanting to 167 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: run away from some bad old habits that they continued here. 168 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:25,479 Speaker 1: So I saw firsthand the impacts of addiction and intergenerational 169 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: trauma as well. I didn't know that that's what it was, yeah, 170 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: at the time, but it was good to see the 171 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,599 Speaker 1: way my parents modeled that. And there was always a 172 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: big pot of food on the stove as well, so 173 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: we never really had to ask if anyone could come over. 174 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was already simmering still is yeah, Okay, So 175 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: look in doctor Google. There's a lot of stuff on 176 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: you guys about Mount Drewet. Mount Drewitt is a suburb 177 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: in Sydney. Can you guys just describe for our listener 178 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 2: that doesn't know about Mount Drewitt. Paint a picture of 179 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 2: the community there and how long you were there and 180 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: what you were doing. 181 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: Mant drew It is an area of western Sydney that 182 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: it encompasses about twelve little micro suburbs that are when 183 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: they were first built, mostly social and state and public housing. 184 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: I don't know across how everyone, every state refers to 185 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: it differently. And so that was built in response to 186 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties, these bold social experiments. But essentially the 187 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: government was tasked with trying to clear out some of 188 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: the inner city slums of Newtown and Glebe and Surrey Hills, 189 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: and so they bought these big tracks of land in 190 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: Campbelltown and Mount Druett and they built all this public 191 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: housing well before they built any of the infrastructure. They 192 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: built most of the houses around an experimental design called 193 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: the Radburn design, and you can see how the streets 194 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: are constructed before there was any of the real support services. 195 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: So most areas that are high levels of unemployment and 196 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: intergenerational issues that emerged from unemployment, but also other issues 197 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: people face usually built around industries like Geelong car manufacturing. 198 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: Then it closes down. Then it happened same with doved 199 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: and whereas these were quite unique in that they never 200 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: had industry near them, and so people were just kind 201 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: of thrown out to the ends of the earth and 202 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: just left to fend for themselves. Often before the garbage 203 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: trucks had worked out the roots head or the buses 204 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: had access, so they were kind of left out there 205 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: and that kind of set the identity of us against 206 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: the world, and so any people who come in to 207 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: try and help or support are often viewed with suspicions. 208 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: So the model of moving into the community was quite 209 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: a radical one at the time, even in the eyes 210 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: of the community. I remember one lady we met really 211 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: early on said oh, you'll only last a couple of 212 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: months he loved. Thankfully, we were able to prove her 213 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: a little bit wrong by just kind of putting down 214 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: roots in that neighborhood and raising our kids there as well. 215 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 3: And you took a vow of poverty, correct, How did 216 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 3: that work? 217 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 4: We took our poverty before moving to Mount Druitt. So 218 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 4: we were working in multicultural in the southeast of Melbourne, 219 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 4: which is where we met. 220 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: What was that. 221 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 4: Suburb, spring Vale Place where we met Poverty was one 222 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 4: of the vows that we took, so we took vowser poverty, 223 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 4: service and obedience. The valve poverty was designed around trying 224 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 4: to identify as best we could with the communities that 225 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 4: we lived amongst and served, so that meant that we 226 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 4: were living on something that was pretty much equivalent to 227 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 4: centraling plus ten dollars a week. I think I guess 228 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 4: we wanted to not be set apart too far from 229 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 4: our neighbors. Notwithstanding the fact that, like when Cam was 230 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 4: doing The Filthy, Rich and Homeless, we were both university 231 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 4: educated with middle class families, so we did always know 232 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 4: that if we chose to we would have an out. 233 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 4: So from that perspective, there were limits in terms of 234 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,359 Speaker 4: how much we could truly identify. 235 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: But I think another part of that is when you 236 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: want to say a big guest in your life, you've 237 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: got to say a bunch of pretty hard core knows. 238 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 1: And the way our lifestyle is structured is around, you know, access, mobility, 239 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: being able to go anywhere at the drop of a hat. 240 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: So a lot of it will pull you away from 241 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: your main calling in life. So we were really passionate 242 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: about being well known and deeply involved in the life 243 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: of that neighborhood and you know, friends ring up, do 244 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: you want to go out here, you want to go 245 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: do this, you want to do that. Let's you know, 246 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: I've got some tickets to go here. And so we 247 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: had to say a whole lot of no's in that 248 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: way to say a big gyest to our community as well. 249 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 2: I mean Mount Sure, it's a long way from Springvale. 250 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 2: Was the idea of moving to a northern state to 251 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 2: really extricate yourself from your families in Melbourne and you 252 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 2: went to Mount Druid or what was the reason to 253 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 2: go to Mount Drewt Because you could have gone to 254 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 2: any state really based on that there. I'm sure that 255 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 2: these communities exist in every state in Australia. 256 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 4: We had a fairly big and strong team in Melbourne 257 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 4: already and so we felt like it was our organization 258 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 4: was well placed to start something new. We knew people 259 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 4: in Sydney, so from the point of view of moving 260 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 4: to a place where there were already support networks in 261 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 4: place for us, Sydney made sense. And then in terms 262 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 4: of Mount drew It specifically, it was actually grayham Mong 263 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 4: from the Wayside Chapel who introduced us to Mount Drew. 264 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 4: It so I know the sort of neighborhood you're looking for. 265 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 4: I'll take you for a drive. And John and I 266 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 4: made trips up separately and both really strongly went yep, 267 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 4: this is where we want to be home. 268 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 3: And did you did you have your two children already 269 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 3: at that point or yes? 270 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: Yeah we did so they were quite little, yeah, two 271 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: and three. When we decided it was Sydney. And when 272 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: we decided it was Bidwell in Mount Drew it to go. 273 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: We packed the car and got in the car. We 274 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: didn't have a place to stay that night or any 275 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: We didn't know anything. We had nothing set or planned. 276 00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: We just got in the car and went let's go. 277 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: And it was up the Hume Highway that someone rang 278 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: up and said, oh, would you like to use my caravan? 279 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: And then a couple of hours later someone rang up 280 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: and said, would you like to put that caravan in 281 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: my front yard? I don't know where we would have 282 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: stayed otherwise. 283 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: You're in Mount Dreuert. How was it raising kids in 284 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 2: that environment? 285 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: Yeah? Look, our kids had no choice. You know, you 286 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: don't have a choice about your parents, and so it 287 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: was always done in a way where we are really 288 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: passionate about making sure that our values aren't just a 289 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: poster on the wall, but they're how we live our lives. 290 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: And so our kids got to see that up close, 291 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: and there was this moment you know, you always question, 292 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,359 Speaker 1: you know, will they go on with this or what 293 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: sorts of people will they become having grown up in 294 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: the environment they have, And there was a moment there 295 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: where I was a chaplain at the local high school, 296 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: was one of my roles, and the police called us 297 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: up and said, one of the students has been assaulted 298 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: quite badly at her home, so can we bring her 299 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: over to your place. She wants to come to your 300 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: place because she knew Lisa as well, and it was 301 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: just a d I think our kids were checking a 302 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: fake SICKI. So they were there, and normally we tried 303 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: to keep a lot of that stuff separate. We had 304 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: an end of the house that was separated from the rest, 305 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: from the hospitality space. And as the police brought her in, 306 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: our kids saw her. They knew her. She was about sixteen. 307 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: Our kids were about seven and six at the time, 308 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: and immediately one of our kids, who's all cuddly, went 309 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: up to her and just started stroking her arm, and 310 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: the other one went straight to the toaster and chucked 311 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: two bits of toast on and madly spread it and 312 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: brought it out. And they said, ah, Leice, look there us. 313 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: You know you're the tender, loving, caressing care and I'm 314 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: just shoving veggimie down their threat, you know. And it's 315 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: just that's who they were really as well. One was 316 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: very touchy feeling and the other one was very practical 317 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: what he would need in this moment. And just to 318 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: see that come together in this act of loving care's 319 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: such a really powerful moment of seeing how you lived 320 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: out values often bring out the best in not only 321 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: in others, but in your kids too. 322 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 2: Without a doubt. It's a bit like what you're saying 323 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: Lisa before that love is a verb, it's an action. 324 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: And do you think that our kids pay more attention 325 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 2: to what we do than what we say? 326 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely? Yeah. Well, when we were dating, she said to me, 327 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: once you know who you are, shout so loudly in 328 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: my ears, I can't hear what you say. You know, 329 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: it's a weird thing to say on a second date, 330 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: but I thought, you know, there's a she's a fascinating 331 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 1: creature this one. 332 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. Were you always completely aligned on like this is yes, 333 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 3: this is exactly what we want to do, or one 334 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 3: of you more reticent the other, or you were just 335 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 3: gung ho. 336 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 4: I think we've been pretty fortunate actually, and that we've 337 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 4: always been pretty well aligned. So we were aligned about 338 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 4: the work that we wanted to do in Melbourne, and 339 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 4: then when we were ready to move, we were aligned 340 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 4: about making the move to Sydney. Yeah, and I guess 341 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 4: when it was time for us to leave Mount Drewitt 342 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 4: as well, we were aligned about that. 343 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 344 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 2: So how many years were you in Mount drew It. 345 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: I think it was about ten all up, you know 346 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: when we counted more. But we've never been out of 347 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: line in terms of what we've wanted in our values. 348 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: And that's the kind of advice I give to people. 349 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: What's that in that work out what you want to 350 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: do in life, Yeah, and go and do it and 351 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: then you're along that way you'll meet people who have 352 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: the same values as you. And so we didn't need 353 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: to have, you know, in those dating conversations where you're like, 354 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: what do you like? What do you like? What do 355 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: you like doing? When you do it? We already knew 356 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: all that stuff about each other. We were both passionately 357 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: committed to making this world a better place, and to 358 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: the point where when you said let's have our honeymoon 359 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: in Calcutta at Mother Teresa's Home for the dying, went yeah, 360 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: let's do it. 361 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 2: And that's what happened. Did you do it there? 362 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: We did? Because Lisa said, it's not just boy meets girl, 363 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: falls in love and sails off into the sunset. It's 364 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: two people who were passionate about changing the world are 365 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: brought together, and you know, we start our married life 366 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: the way we want to continue it. And so, you know, 367 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: off to the slums of Calcutta and working in the 368 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: orphanage in the afternoons and the home for the Dying 369 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: in the mornings, and that was a real foundation stone 370 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,959 Speaker 1: for of how we wanted to live our lives together. 371 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: And it was I'll tell you. I'll also make a 372 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: little confession is we've never lived alone together. 373 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 4: We haven't. 374 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: No, We've always had someone living in our house and 375 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: then then we had our own kids as well, so 376 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: we've never just had any couple of years of just 377 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: me and Lisa. So we are actually getting that opportunity 378 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: in the first week of September. We'll be for the 379 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: first time in we've been together twenty five years. The 380 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 1: first I remember we came from honeymoon and we were 381 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 1: running a house for a ten asylum seekers and that 382 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: was and it never really stopped. You know, We've had 383 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: heaps of people. But you know, we'll we can't wait, 384 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: seriously really, because I. 385 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 3: Can imagine you two just continuing type on your doors 386 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 3: the way you travel two days and you like, we're 387 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 3: moving into. 388 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 4: A tiny place, so that would help, right. 389 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: We've still got to couch and a bit of hospitality 390 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: will be a bit caught to who we are. But 391 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: you know, just the two of us, we we can't wait. 392 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: We're tickled, is there? 393 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 2: I mean, do you really always agree? Do you have 394 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 2: a way of working things out? Like I'm sure you 395 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 2: barrack fast. 396 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: You look like an. 397 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 4: Essendon Johnson. 398 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: I'm getting from one of you. 399 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 2: Who do you follow? 400 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 4: Used to be cut but now it's g w S. 401 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: I think, oh okay, because they're in the west of Sydney. 402 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 2: So how does that go? When g WS play Essendon 403 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 2: and the fact that the bombs How. 404 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 3: Good was that? 405 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 2: When g WS after what they did to us. 406 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: Last we could do ten podcasts on and yeah, Essendon 407 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: and it's not many people I meeting Sydney you want 408 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: to talk about it. 409 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 2: You've met the person. 410 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: Are you an ES fan? 411 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 2: No, yes, we both are. So that was the thing, 412 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 2: you know, when we met our Sydney girl on Melbourne 413 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 2: and footy was always such a big thing in our 414 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 2: family and growing up and played it and stuff. And 415 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 2: then so yeah, back to you guys, is there something 416 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 2: that you do to come together when you actually do 417 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 2: see things a little differently or you're telling me that 418 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 2: you really don't see an him differently? 419 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 4: I mean sometimes we do, of course sometimes we do. Thankfully, 420 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 4: It's never been the big things, and I think if 421 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 4: you're aligned on the big things, you can work the 422 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 4: little things out. 423 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: So the first couple of years of marriage, you know, 424 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: it takes a lot of negotiation and navigation and you know, 425 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: even learning how to share a bed. So because we 426 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: hadn't lived together until that point, I remember that. Do 427 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: you remember that first time we were living in was 428 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: a Regent Street and one of the guys from Africa 429 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: was so cold he was he was wanting to come 430 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: into our room with us just to warm up. I mean, 431 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: poor guy, he's come from you know, from Africa to Melbourne, Melbourne, 432 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: we need d Yeah, he's just like, what's going on? 433 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: How did jump? 434 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 2: How did that? What was that conversation? Like that? 435 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: We're pretty open to anything, but yeah, not that. So yeah, 436 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: that brings back some memories they've got. They've all gone 437 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: on to get permanent residents that are doing amazing things 438 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 1: in this country, including one of them who has a 439 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: kid who nearly won Australian Idol a couple of years 440 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: ago as well. So yeah, it's doing really really well. 441 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 3: Now you you have your two biological children, but you've 442 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 3: also adopted a girl at Quine of an older age. Right, 443 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 3: how did you come to meet her and how did 444 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 3: that come about? 445 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 4: Judsey was one of our u S group kids. Okay 446 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 4: and pretty special kids. We're full of life and energy 447 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 4: and lots of energy and used to spend a fair 448 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 4: bit of time at our house, got along well with 449 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 4: our children. Through meeting her, we got to know her 450 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 4: mum and sadly her mom was dying, so she actually 451 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 4: asked whether after she passed away we'd be able to 452 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 4: have Jazzi as part of our family. So Yeah, she 453 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 4: was fifteen when she moved in sixteen when her mom 454 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 4: passed away, stayed with us till she was eighteen, moved 455 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 4: out with a partner, came back as they do so 456 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 4: and she's thirty now right now. 457 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: Even that conversation, Lisa came home, she said, I've just 458 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: been at Karen's house and Karen's asked me if we'll 459 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: take Jazz on and so I just assumed that's a 460 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: yes then, John, And that was pretty much the conversation. Yeah, right, right, 461 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: So we've never really you know, we only really argue 462 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: about directions car. But and then they invented the maps. 463 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 2: At ways or Google. 464 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of less arguing in the car. 465 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: No doubt, he said of the mailways. 466 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, Gregory's in Sydney. On the drive on the passengers said. 467 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: Over, I'm not pretending like we have little Barney's over things. 468 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: And you know, Lisa has this thing she has to 469 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: be exactly on time, and you know, I'm like, it's 470 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: just an estimate when they say twelve o'clock and she's like, no, no, 471 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 1: we've got to be there. And you know we you know, 472 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: we have those little niggles around that. But we hGe 473 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: you the small stuff. Otherwise the big stuff is you know, 474 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: we just go what do we need to do? You 475 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: know to be able to work this thing out? Yeah? 476 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 2: I love that blind on the big things, on that 477 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 2: the mindset. There was a paragraph in one of the 478 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 2: articles that I that I read. It goes like, besides, 479 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: everything worth stealing has already been stolen. John says, we 480 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 2: had one woman who robbed us blind cash cameras. Someone 481 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 2: even took the kids piggybank. Once we know it's a 482 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 2: good all, but we're still their friends. Who else is 483 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 2: going to love them? How do you get to that mindset? 484 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: Oh? 485 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 4: Look, I think for me one of the things is 486 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 4: love isn't a feeling, it's a verb. So it's something 487 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 4: you do, It's something you choose. In choosing to love people, 488 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 4: you choose to look for the good in them rather 489 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 4: than focus on things like whether or not they stole 490 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 4: your kid's money box. It's not always easy, but choosing 491 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 4: to engage with people and find commonality and see the 492 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 4: good in them and receive from them too, I think 493 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 4: has been really important for us. 494 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 1: For you, embody that you know the way you love 495 00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: people and you have a really beautiful, loving, accepting, non 496 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: judgmental presence in people's lives, so they often feel very 497 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: comfortable to be open with you very quickly. Actually, So 498 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: that's how we've always kind of worked well together in 499 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: that kind of context. Is So she's like Terry Dannah 500 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: herm like Alan is art. So she. 501 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 2: Okay, So for everyone else in Australia, we're so been 502 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 2: baby bombers in the middle of the eighties, Terry Danner 503 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 2: who was the center half back, so he was a strong, 504 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 2: solid support. 505 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Alan's is a rover. He just runs around 506 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: and creates chaos in the space. So that's what I do. 507 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: So that's how we work. We've always worked that way. 508 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: I get him, I bring him home, and then Lisa 509 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: loves them prettier than Alan. You respect you Alanie's art. 510 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 1: If you're listening, absolutely well, you know, a little ginger head, 511 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: little we've been just running around. But you know that's sorry, 512 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: that's that's a silly and allergy. You know, Lisa role 513 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: bring the party, but you know Lisa will. 514 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 4: Make things fun. 515 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. And yeah, so I bring the fun, 516 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: but Lisa brings the love and care. 517 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 3: Okay, you've seen some experience is no doubt of people 518 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 3: at their lowest point. Do you get burnout? And if 519 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 3: you do, does your mental health ever get affected? And 520 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 3: is there something that you do for yourselves that really 521 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 3: helps every time or all the time. 522 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 4: Well, having listened to your podcast, I know that your 523 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 4: big believers in therapy. Absolutely, yeah, and so we Yeah, 524 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 4: that's been something that's been really important for us. I 525 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 4: think I see someone every week, so there's that space 526 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 4: always to be able to process things as they arise 527 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 4: rather than needing to wait. We didn't always have those 528 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 4: people in our lives, and I think that was to 529 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 4: add detriment. Yeah, I think we're much healthier people now 530 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 4: that we do. 531 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 2: So do you do therapy too, Well? 532 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: Yes, I have a lot of therapy. So I came 533 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: late to the party. Yeah, But you know, having a 534 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: family that's quite neuro diverse, that also has struggles with 535 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: anxiety and depression and bipolar as well as ADHD, you know, 536 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: the whole mix is learning to navigate that world requires 537 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: therapy and quite a lot of it. So something I've 538 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: been on a journey for for about eight years now. 539 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: But also in my role, I have some clinical support, 540 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 1: particularly around I'm exposed in my role to a lot 541 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: of pretty raw end of humanity, and when something strikes 542 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: that is something I find hard to resolve within myself. 543 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to use vulnerable people as my therapist. 544 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: You know, the group is therapists, you know, inappropriately just 545 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: spill out details of stories, so I'll immediately go. You know, 546 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: a friend once said, it's when your pots are boiling 547 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: over and you can't control them, you know, when you 548 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: think slip out of your mouth that really shouldn't. And 549 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: so that's when I go to my clinical therapist and say, 550 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: look blue to have to pay for his therapy afterwards 551 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: as well, it's his potheth boileth over to it. I 552 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: remember once just going well and he said, so that's 553 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: been happening your whole life. I said, no, that was 554 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: last week, just like, oh my goodness. We both had 555 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: very similar experiences very early on around burnout, where it 556 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: was I was running a youth club and there was 557 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: a lot of kids from me steam or who was 558 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: seeking asylum. And at the end of it of one session, 559 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: you know, we just said, oh, you know, it's Christmas 560 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: coming up, what do you wish for? And one little 561 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: girl said, look, I wish that I'm not deported because 562 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: I'm not ready to die. And that was a real 563 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: pivotal moment for me where I said, it's not going 564 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: to be a quick fix. A lot of people get 565 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: into this kind of work expecting to fix people, and 566 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: that's a big part of our philosophy is no one's 567 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: a problem to be solved. They're a person to be met. 568 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: But if you want to see change, it's about walking 569 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: alongside someone. For a long, long, long time, we had 570 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,959 Speaker 1: no promise of reward. So at that moment with that 571 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: young girl, I remember making a promise to me self 572 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: is to say, no matter how hard I go and work, 573 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: I always have to pull myself back from the brink 574 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: because if I burn out, then who's going to be 575 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: there for her? So that was a really grounding moment 576 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: for me in that in that space, And you know, 577 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: I don't think we've ever got We've been exhausted, you 578 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: know often, but once a year I will come home 579 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: and I'll sleep for about twenty hours. I don't know, 580 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: just run out of adrenaline. But it kind of keeps 581 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: us both going. Someone said, you won't make poverty history 582 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: till you make poverty personal right and till you walk 583 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: alongside someone and you walk and see inside their world 584 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: and then you and that's what gives you the grace 585 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: and the empathy to be able to realize that, you know, 586 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: people are so different from each other, and some have 587 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: experiences that you know, they just need to be held. 588 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: And as you hold them, they're going to push, They're 589 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: going to test, you know, is this real? Do you 590 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: really love me? Because what about this? And what about that? 591 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: And almost that rejection sensitivity where they'll say, I'll push 592 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: you away before you push me away, and they can't 593 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: really argue with an experience of grace, love and forgiveness. 594 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: And often that's a beautiful thing to be able to offer, 595 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: though it is a it's a radical act making the 596 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: decision to love. And you know, thank you for loving me, Lisa. 597 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 4: That's been my great pleasure. 598 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 3: Because you've you've been on the end of a few assaults. 599 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 3: I believe you've had a check you know, crunched over 600 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 3: your head and you've. 601 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: Really done the deep dive. 602 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 2: Around here. 603 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 3: You have a very good producer to you know, it's 604 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 3: happened a few times, like you know, when you want 605 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 3: to get involved in people's lives. 606 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: You know, you just got to go all in right 607 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: sometimes put your body on the line. And well, I'll 608 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: give you this one story that when I looked at 609 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: you and realized that I couldn't love you anymore than 610 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: I already did. Was Lisa was eight months pregnant once 611 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: and there was the horrible sounds of a domestic abuse happening, 612 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: and between this huge, huge man and his wife, at 613 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: least you just, without hesitating, just ran downstairs from our 614 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: flat to their flat, kind of flung the door. It's 615 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: spilled out into the courtyard and you jumped eight months 616 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: pregnant in between both of them, and you said stop 617 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: because I love you both. Oh wow. And I was 618 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: just looking frozen in terror from the balcony as this 619 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: this act of We talk about love and changing the world, 620 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: but it was not until you put your body on 621 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: the line that I saw that come come alive. And 622 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: so when this woman says, you know, it's more than 623 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: a feeling, it's a verb. Is a verb. You live 624 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: it out every day. 625 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 2: It's fearful, it is that's hot hot. Hey, how do 626 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 2: you guys relax? What do you do to have fun? 627 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 4: Trashy TV? 628 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: What do you like we saw an episode Monks season 629 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: two that. 630 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 2: You're yes, right, yes, Wayne, you are. 631 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: The dodgy Australian photographer Daryl Darryl. That's right, Darryl dirtbag. 632 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 2: He's some weird eryldbag. 633 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 5: Don't know, some double de surdo. You go to interview 634 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 5: us in a couple of days time. There is funny 635 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 5: how those things turn up. Goggle Box. You goggle boxes 636 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 5: wants to be on google Box. 637 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: Banter in our house across the TV is hilarious. Our 638 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: kids are some of the wittiest, funniest people I've ever met. 639 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 3: Are they at all in the same field as either 640 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 3: of you? Are they interested in doing something in that field? 641 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: Our twenty one year old says that they will never 642 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: do that. Our nineteen year old says, I want to 643 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,959 Speaker 1: do exactly what your mum did, just from a psychologically 644 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: much healthier place than you two. 645 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 2: Okay, explain, man, what do they look? What have they 646 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 2: seen that we're not because something You're pretty healthy. 647 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: You too, I think they could see. There's no such 648 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: thing as a completely pure motive coming out of an 649 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: unbroken vessel. You know, we all have brokenness, and that 650 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: was one of the points I wanted to make and 651 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: about our wedding that I remember quite vividly is we 652 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: clearly made the point this isn't two incomplete people completing 653 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: one another. This is two broken people being brought together 654 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: and offering bringing their brokenness to the world. And we 655 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: did that with a ritual of candles and a ceremony there. 656 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: But we just really wanted to push against that you 657 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: complete me, because that is one of the seeds of 658 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: a lot of the gendered violence that we see, is 659 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: this demand for you to be my whole world and 660 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: to be my everything, as opposed to just saying, well, 661 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: you know who are we going to be on the 662 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: road together. So that's kind of a very powerful thing 663 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: that I always remember about the way we've always sought 664 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: to live our lives. That's why we have therapy in it. 665 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: That's exactly right. But that's where our kid can also see. 666 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,720 Speaker 1: I think they could see as much of the push 667 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: factors as the pull factors. 668 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, do therapy together? Do you do couple therapy? 669 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 4: We have, Yeah, we're not. At the moment of our. 670 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: Kids ended up in hospital, we realized we needed to 671 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: our marriage to bear a lot of weight, and with 672 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: a few of the diagnoses that they've had. You know, 673 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: if you know, they kind of give you the statistics saying, oh, 674 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: there's a ninety percent divorce rate for couples who have 675 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: raising kids with these kinds of struggles. And so that's 676 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: what was triggering for us to go off and say, look, 677 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: let's do some hard yards now. 678 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 2: Is that to get on to the same page or 679 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 2: to really have a third person listening to your different 680 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 2: point of views? 681 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a bit of both. He was really 682 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 4: helpful in terms of some things about parenting too. I mean, 683 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 4: when we talk about how we live our life, we 684 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 4: have always been on the same page in terms of 685 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 4: how we parent, maybe not always quite so much. So 686 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 4: we needed a space to do that exploration and to 687 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 4: get to the point where we could be on the 688 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 4: same page because ultimately, apart, it's not helpful for our 689 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 4: relationship or for our kids. Sure if we're not. 690 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 3: You've both seen a lot of suffering of the human spirit. 691 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,720 Speaker 3: Is there any particular advice that you give to people 692 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 3: that moves them or helps them the most? Is there 693 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 3: something that commonly you've done throughout your life that you 694 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 3: often say? 695 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:43,439 Speaker 4: No, Probably not anything I say beyond listening and validating 696 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 4: their emotions and their experience. I think I don't feel 697 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 4: like I've got any great wisdom. I can in part, 698 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 4: but I feel like I can listen well and help 699 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 4: them to know that someone cares about what it is 700 00:36:59,440 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 4: that they have. 701 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, what would you say to that? 702 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:02,839 Speaker 2: John? 703 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: Look, I can only think about people. You know. I 704 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: was at a deathbed of a woman who had grown 705 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: up abused all through her life. And you know, as 706 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: she sat there on her deathbed and she had leaded 707 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: to life there she quickly got hooked onto drugs because 708 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: of who she was living with and ended up working 709 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: the streets for many years. And you know, she sat 710 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: on the deathbed she kind of said, father, you know, 711 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,760 Speaker 1: is am I worthy? You know, she was really asking 712 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 1: those questions, and you know, and I just said, Darln, 713 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: you know there's going to be a standing ovation when 714 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: you walk into heaven tonight. And then you know, she 715 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,319 Speaker 1: looked at me and smiled. And for her funeral, we 716 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: played Pinks, You're fucking perfect as she was wheeled in, 717 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,760 Speaker 1: and you know, it was just that moment of beauty 718 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: and grace and love that really filled the room as 719 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: we all kind of just got together to celebrate her 720 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: life and everything that she brought to us in it. 721 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,240 Speaker 1: So that pretty much sums up the Wayside right there. 722 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: You know, that's the kind of place I join in. 723 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: It's a place that we now work together there, and 724 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 1: it's the kind of place that we hope to be 725 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: able to continue to share that love with people who 726 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: really sorely need it. 727 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, we do a five minute shower, two. 728 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:30,720 Speaker 2: Conserving water five minutes. Let's go for the two minute shower. 729 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 2: Can you guys both answer these questions? 730 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 3: What do you miss when you're not together chatting? 731 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,240 Speaker 1: She's my anchor, so I often just rattless. 732 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, Oh a time in your life that you'd 733 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 2: like to revisit, well. 734 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 4: Like a season or a moment, anything, anything. A moment 735 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 4: was actually us and the two youngest kids. We did 736 00:38:55,239 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 4: an evening walk on a volcano in Bali, and I 737 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 4: remember the conversations we had on the way out and 738 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 4: on the way back, and it was just us in 739 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 4: the group with two guides in this great expanse of beauty, 740 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 4: And if you asked the kids, that was one of 741 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 4: their best moments as well. 742 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: See, there's a moment I'd like to go back into 743 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: to not do, and there's a moment I'd like to 744 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: go back into just to check it out. So what 745 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: I would not do is when I was going to 746 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 1: propose to her in Marriage Road in Mulgrave, and we 747 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: had like an argument over directions. 748 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 2: So I always was wrong, where are you going? 749 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: This is not off this spring mail road? And you 750 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: saw it was marriage road and I was so angry, 751 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,839 Speaker 1: but I still stopped. I was such a jerk when 752 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: we were dating. Why you stuck around with me? And 753 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: you know then I kind of slowed down and then 754 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: just sped off and drove us home. He drove you home, 755 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 1: dropped you off, let you go. I would like that 756 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,359 Speaker 1: moment back, you know, I'd redo that. I wouldn't do that. 757 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 2: I think we've ever had someone who wants a moment back. 758 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 3: I think one other time. Really, yeah, I do remember 759 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 3: one other time. 760 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: I want that moment back. 761 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:15,959 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, right, yeah. 762 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 3: I think someone said the times that I've hurt people, 763 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 3: oh yeah, yeah, ok, yeah, I get that. 764 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,359 Speaker 1: Yeah. But the one I'd like to look was when 765 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 1: I when we when I proposed to he Ackland Street, we 766 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: recreated our first date, which was at the Ackland Street 767 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: cake shop. 768 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 2: It's going to say, was it over a cake? 769 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: Yeah? 770 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,760 Speaker 4: Absolutely, remember the Ackland Special from the Ackland Cake Shop 771 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 4: on Ackland Street. 772 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: And we recreated our first date and went to some 773 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: Kilda beach and I got down on one knee and 774 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,879 Speaker 1: because we were in the valve poverty, I got down 775 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: one knee and gave you the ring that I got 776 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: out of the forty cent machine. And it was but 777 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: four super Bowls and the four super Bowls that I 778 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: got first. I'm not tight. I gave it to you all. 779 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 3: What's better than that? For supamore? 780 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,280 Speaker 1: And I would probably tell the bloke that just stopped 781 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: really awkwardly right next to us just to keep moving 782 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: to have that moment back. It's a very vivid and 783 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: precious one. Every time we go to Melbourne we pop 784 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: in and get an neck On Special together. 785 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 3: I love it. 786 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,760 Speaker 2: Final question, describe each other in one word exceptional. 787 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: Love personified. 788 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 2: Oh yep, Well you two. Thank you for gracing us 789 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 2: with your presence today. It's been this has been a 790 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 2: really fabulous chat and good luck and you know the world, 791 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 2: if we can clone you fifty times even more, yeah, 792 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 2: we'd be in a way better place. So thanks so 793 00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 2: much for coming in. 794 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 4: Thank you for having us, lovely to be here. 795 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: Thank you so much and great to see you again, John, 796 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:09,240 Speaker 1: And we're going to talk. I can tell that was happening. 797 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 3: What magical, humble, incredible people they both are. Yeah, and 798 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 3: we just heard like the tiniest, tiniest amount of their stories. 799 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 2: And as John was leaving, he said, you know what 800 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 2: I really do to relax, I watch Essendon football games. 801 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 2: He loves that. I like him even more now. 802 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,360 Speaker 1: I'm sure we get to spent a lot more time together. 803 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 3: They just like both of them, the work that they've 804 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 3: done and the kindness that they share and you know 805 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,839 Speaker 3: the impact of the lives that they have made. They 806 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 3: were just also sharing about a little boy who they 807 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,359 Speaker 3: were there when he was born and he's now has 808 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 3: a scholarship to a private school in Sydney and they 809 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,360 Speaker 3: also knew his dad before before. Like I mean, just that, 810 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 3: you know, the rollover of generational impacts of kindness that 811 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 3: they're making is it's so special. 812 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 2: Yes, And their commitment to community and growing community, it's 813 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 2: I had a feeling that we were going to hear 814 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 2: something different and hears something special. We certainly did their 815 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 2: unique and like I said, I figured clone them or 816 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 2: all of us embody a little bit more of what they're, Yeah, 817 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 2: just a little bit of what they're They're they're extolling 818 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 2: with something inte wonderful. We will catch up with you 819 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,280 Speaker 2: listener next time in on Separate Bathroom. 820 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:46,440 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.