1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to another edition of Wisdom Wednesdays. Today's 2 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: episode is sparked by a recent social media post from 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: a brilliant researcher, Professor Stu Phillips. He is one of 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: the gurus of protein research, and as always, when somebody 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: of that level of experience in protein metabolism makes a 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: strong claim, it's worth paying attention. Now, his message was simple, 7 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 1: one point six grams of protein per kilogram per day. 8 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: That's the ceiling. And I love this because in a 9 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 1: world where nutrition is often made unnecessarily complicated, this is 10 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 1: pretty clean and it's actually very evidence based, and I'm 11 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: going to explore that. Let's dive a little deeper because 12 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: behind that statement is actually decades of research and multiple 13 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: meta analysis. And let's start with the first one. So 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: this was a systematic review meta analysis published in the 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: Journal of Kekexia, Sarcopenia and Muscle, and they reviewed seventy 16 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: four different randomized control trials which had a total of 17 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: twenty six hundred and sixty five participants. So that's a 18 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: pretty good sample size and a meta analysis, as you've 19 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: heard me talk about, particularly of randomized control trials, that 20 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: sits right at the top of the evidence pull here. 21 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: And what the researchers did was they pulled all the 22 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: data together from those seventy four control trials looking at 23 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: protein supplementation combined with resistance training, and they specifically wanted 24 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: to understand how increasing protein intake impacts lean body mass, 25 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: impact strength, and impacts functional outcomes. And they did it 26 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: importantly across different populations, trained, untrained, younger and older. And 27 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: what they found was pretty bloody consistent muscle gains increase 28 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: with protein intake up to one point six grams per 29 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: kilogram of body weight per day, but beyond that the 30 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: curve flattened pretty damn quickly, and there were no meaningful 31 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: additional gains in muscle master strength above that intake. So 32 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: this is where the idea of this ceiling of one 33 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: point six grams. Now, there was when you look at 34 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: the paper, a statistical upper confidence limit. So we have 35 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: these confidence limits, and that was closer to two point 36 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: two grams per kilograms a day. But it's not a recommendation, 37 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: it's just a bit of variability in the data. The 38 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: practical take home is you hit diminishing returns pretty hard 39 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: at one point six grams per kilograms per day. So 40 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: let's read round a few years, because this wasn't the 41 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: first time that this kind of data showed up. In 42 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, Morching and colleagues did another systematic review in 43 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: meta now Assistant that was published in the British Journal 44 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: of Sports Medicine. In this there were forty nine studies 45 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: and over eighteen hundred participants, and this was one of 46 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: the landmark papers in this space. The authors used a 47 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: similar concept. They pulled randomized control trials examining protein supplementation 48 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: during resistance training, and they analyzed total protein intake, fat 49 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: free mass changes and strength outcomes. And importantly, they modeled 50 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: the dose response relationship, i e. Does do things get 51 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: better as the dose of protein increases? And again there 52 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: was almost identical findings to the paper I mentioned previously. 53 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: Protein supple supplementation does absolutely help, especially in people not 54 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: already consuming enough, but the benefits plateaued at that one 55 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: point six grunds per kilograms per day, and there was 56 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: no additional muscle gain in hypertrophy beyond that point. But interestingly, 57 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: they also showed that you're training status matters and total 58 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: training stimulus matters more than protein. Beyond that adequate amount, 59 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: and that ties directly into Stu Phillips's point is what 60 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: he said. He said lifting eye strength training is the 61 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: main driver. Protein just supports it. Now, the question everyone asks, 62 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: and Stu actually addressed this in this post, what about 63 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: what I'm cutting? So this is you know bodybuilders who 64 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: tend to put on a lot of way at first, 65 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: a lot of muscle and extra calories to build a muscle, 66 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: and then they cut the fat down they go and 67 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: restricted diets. The modern version of cutting is about the 68 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: question is what if I'm taking GLP one medication for 69 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: weight loss and essentially cutting like bodybuilders do. This is 70 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: where things get interesting. So the third study that Stu 71 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: mentioned that I've read as part of this was published 72 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: by Longland and colleagues in twenty sixteen. It was published 73 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. This was a 74 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: single randomized control trial and it was in forty young men. 75 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: Now that is important it's in young young men. But 76 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: it was, and I'll make a mention of that a 77 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: little bit later on. It was, however, a tightly controlled 78 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: short term intervention, and what they found that put the 79 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: participants in a forty percent caloric deficit, right so kind 80 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: of what bodybuilders do and kind of what you'd see 81 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: on people on GLP wants, and they combined that with 82 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: intense resistance training and high intensity interval training, and then 83 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: they divided people into two groups. One was a high 84 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: protein group on two point four grams per kilograms per day. 85 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,239 Speaker 1: The other was a moderate protein group on one point 86 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: two grams per kilograms to day, and it lasted for 87 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: four weeks. What they find was in the high protein 88 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: group they actually put on an extra one point two 89 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: kilogram of mass and they lost four point eight almost 90 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: five kilograms of fat mass. So this blows up another 91 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: myth that I've heard talked about for years. You can't 92 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: put on muscle and lose fat at the same time. 93 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: You absolutely can if your protein is enough and you're 94 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: doing a ship to tourne of lifting. But the lower 95 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: protein group, remember this is one point two grams per 96 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: kilograms a day, which is one and a half times 97 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: the current datary recommendations of not point eight. So that 98 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: lower protein group, they actually maintained their lean mass and 99 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: they lost fat. They improved strength and performance, and this 100 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: is where the nuanced matters. Yes, higher protein gave a 101 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: small advantage in lean mass gain during that cut. But 102 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: the lower protein group, they didn't lose muscle and they 103 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: still got stronger, they still improved. So again the idea 104 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: that you need ridiculous amounts of protein to save your 105 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: muscle is just not supported. No, let's talk about the 106 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: fourth study, which is for me, the final piece. This 107 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: is where understanding the mechanism comes in. So this is 108 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: published by Mirror and colleagues and it's back in twenty 109 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: twelve in the Journal of Applied Physiology, Nutrition and Metabolism, 110 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: and it was a review paper and they looked at 111 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: muscle protein synthesis in response to protein intake. And the 112 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: concept here was that there is a dose dependent stimulation 113 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: of muscle protein synthesis, but it plateaus pretty quickly. What 114 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: they found, and you've probably heard a lot of people 115 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: talk about this on social media, about twenty to twenty 116 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: five grams of high quality protein per mel maximally stimulates 117 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: muscle protein synthesis in young adults. Nope, it wasn't older adults. 118 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: I'll mention that later. Now they find that more protein 119 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: beyond that does not further increase muscle protein synthesis, and 120 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: the excess amino acids are simply oxidized used elsewhere. So 121 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: even at the MAD level we see the same story. 122 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: There is a cap and which then scales up to 123 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: daily intake. And again this lands us around that one 124 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: point six gram per kilogram per day. Now I did 125 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: mention and a couple of times the younger adults. We 126 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: do know now it is being well established that as 127 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: you get older, muscle protein synthesis degredes, right, and that's 128 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: probably there's no clear number for that, but it's probably 129 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: when hormones start to change. And for females, obviously they'll 130 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: know what that is. That's perry and menopause, perimenopause and postmenopause. 131 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: But for males it's kind of that andropause, which tends 132 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: to happen in your forties and and and again it's 133 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: different for different people, but for me, that's where there there. 134 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: If you want to be optimal, slightly more protein might 135 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: well be useful. And instead of that twenty to twenty 136 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: five grams of high quality protein per meal, that's where 137 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 1: some people suggest nudging it up to about thirty grams 138 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: per per meal. But if we zoom out and we 139 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: look at all of this together and look at the 140 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: studies around muscle protein synthesis. Short term interventions like mentioned 141 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: earlier on in the larger meta analysis, the two of 142 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: which I've mentioned, they all converge on the same conclusion. 143 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: And that's why Shoe Phillips can say with confidence one 144 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: point six grams per kilogram that's pretty much the ceiling. Now, 145 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: a couple of important little caveats, because this is where 146 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: people often misinterpret things. First, lean mass is not the 147 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: same as muscle mass, so there's limitations in measurement, dexa, 148 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,719 Speaker 1: bowing pains, all of those things. Second, context matters are 149 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: you in deficit, are you highly trained? Are you an 150 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: older adult? These can shift the requirements slightly but not 151 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: dramatically right. Third, and I think this is the big one. 152 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: Protein does not build muscle. Training does lifting heavy shit 153 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:15,599 Speaker 1: builds the muscle. Protein enables the process, it supports the recovery, 154 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 1: and it provides the building blocks. But without progressive resistance 155 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: training nothing happens. So let me bring you back to 156 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: the practical takeaways, which are very much inlign with that 157 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: original post from Stuve Phillips about one point six grams 158 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: per kilogram per day that is optimal for muscle growth. 159 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: Two point two to two point four kilograms per day, 160 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: potentially helpful in aggressive caloric deficits, or if you're on 161 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: a GLP one medication, and if you're over fifty or 162 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 1: so and you want some extra insurance, about two grams 163 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: per kilogram per day. That's pretty much the upper limit, 164 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: no meaningful benefit for muscle strength or function when you 165 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: go beyond that. And the real message here, the one 166 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: that doesn't sell supplements is the protein you need is 167 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: it's way more than you think if you just listen 168 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: to the dictry guidelines of not pointy at grounds per 169 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: kilar grounds of bodyweight per day, but it's less than 170 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: you think if you listen to some health influencers or 171 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: bodybuilding magazines, and the training you need is probably more 172 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: than you think. And that is the whole story, and 173 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: its evidence based, no fluff, decades of research distilled into 174 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: something that's actually quite useful. So that is it for 175 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: this week, folks, Catch you next time.