1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: I think that recovery is a choice. You know, there 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: have been some not nice things that have happened to 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: me in my life, and the way that I choose 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: to see it is that I want to live a 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: life that is meaningful and rich and contented, and in 6 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: order to do that, I need to set down these 7 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: bags that have been handed to me. Some not of 8 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: my choice, but it is my choice to set them 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: down and walk away, and you will feel lighter and 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: better about things. But it is a choice to want 11 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: to seek contentment and to seek a life that you 12 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: want to live. 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 2: Good. Thanks for listening to the show. This is Better 14 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: Than Yesterday. 15 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 3: Useful tools, useful conversations to help make your day to 16 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 3: day better than yesterday. 17 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 2: Every week since twenty thirteen. My name is Joshi A. Ginsberg. 18 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 3: We've got a question for you. What does it mean 19 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 3: to be courageous? We often think as courage being about 20 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,959 Speaker 3: how we face the world. It can also be how 21 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 3: we face the difficult bits of ourselves, about how we 22 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 3: can say, well, why not me, even when an opportunity 23 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 3: is daunting, how we can grapple with the things that 24 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 3: have happened to us that we would perhaps prefer to 25 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 3: forget on how we might recognize that we're not on 26 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 3: the best path forward and might need to hit reset. 27 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 3: For all these ideas and more, I'm going to speak 28 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 3: with someone who's very, very courageous today. 29 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: Her name is Melissa Leong. You may know Melissa Leong 30 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 2: is one of the judges of Masters Chef Australia or 31 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: Dessert Masters. 32 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: She's also a food writer at Food Critic and recently 33 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 3: an author. 34 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: Her memoir Guts is out right now. 35 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 3: In this conversation, we're going to talk about the value 36 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 3: of sharing the darkest parts of your story, both yourself 37 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 3: and for others, what a pasty healing can look like, 38 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 3: the moments where she has, in her own words, blown 39 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 3: up her entire life, why they had to happen, and 40 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 3: what followed after that, The challenges that she faced accepting 41 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 3: the job of a job john Master Chef, and why 42 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 3: she really really loves MMA, and what she's learning from 43 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 3: doing Brazilian jiu jitsu other than just jiu jitsu. It's 44 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 3: a fascinating conversation and I really can't wait to play 45 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 3: for you. I do have to pay some bills, though, 46 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 3: so here's some ads. 47 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 2: We're back with melon A moment. Melissaly Long is our 48 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 2: guest today. 49 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 3: I do want to let you know that this episode 50 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: does contain a few discussions that can be a bit intense. 51 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 3: Perhaps we're speaking about sexual assault pretty early in the chat. 52 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 3: Please take care of yourself if you need to want 53 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 3: out how to respect or one how to respect or 54 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 3: dot au if you need look after yourselves. 55 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: Enjoy the conversation. This is Melissaly Long. Thank you for coming, 56 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. How do you feel today? 57 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 4: I feel tired. 58 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm two thirds of the way through this all singing, 59 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: all dancing, tap dancing, end of the memoir. 60 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: Cycle, the big tour, the big tour. 61 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 4: But you really don't. 62 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: Think about too much, like eighty thousand words, all of 63 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: your stories, you know, well, you know some of your 64 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: stories in a book. You think that's going to be 65 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: the chunk of the effort and the emotion and all 66 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: of the things. 67 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,839 Speaker 4: But it's not. It's just the beginning of this whole. 68 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: Thing. 69 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, but she's out there now, so she is she? 70 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 4: Yeah? Why not? 71 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 3: Is that because it's the version of you that you're 72 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 3: putting out into the world. 73 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 4: A little bit, yeah, a little bit. 74 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: I think that that's what we have to do is 75 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: that there's the version we put that we put out 76 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: in the world, and then there's the version of us 77 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: that's just you know, ourselves alone in our rooms, in 78 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: our houses and with our friends and all of that 79 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. 80 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 3: So yeah, when it came time to write this, youah 81 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 3: have a choice. So like, here's some things that I'm 82 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 3: going to keep to myself. Here's some things that not 83 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 3: anybody knows yet. Yeah, but once I say them, it's 84 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 3: not going to be able to be unsad. 85 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, the old Pandora's box. 86 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, way more than just an expensive charm bracelet. 87 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 4: This episode, What was it. 88 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 2: That you needed to like? 89 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 3: Okay, if I'm going to write this book, yea, even 90 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 3: though this is a very difficult time in my life, 91 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 3: I'm going to have to put it in. Why did 92 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 3: you want to put those stuff in the book? 93 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: One of the things that I've talked about in the 94 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: book wrote itself. There was a time where I was 95 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: confronted by these things bubbling up. And it was as 96 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: I was preparing to write the book, I attended an 97 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: event for Marie Claire and there was a speaker, well 98 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: two speakers, and Acouts Trotter and Hannah plibuset her mother, 99 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: who spoke about Anna's experience of sexual violence and course 100 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 1: of control and other things, and that triggered something that 101 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: broke a down all for me, and I was confronted 102 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: by my own visceral set of emotions over identifying with 103 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: something that I'd suppressed, and just I pushed it down 104 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: so deep. I tucked it way back in the closet 105 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: and I pretended that it didn't happen. 106 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 4: And that event gave me an. 107 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,559 Speaker 1: Invitation to investigate why I was feeling this way now. 108 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: And so when I sat down to write it wrote itself. 109 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: I sat there and it was almost an hour body 110 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: experience that it just it flowed out, and I had 111 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: to ask myself, Okay, once you say this thing, people 112 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: will own that in their own way you think about 113 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: you know, like I come from a pr background. I 114 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: know that people will pick up things in a certain 115 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: way and you're aware of that. But I had to 116 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: sit down and think, Okay, beyond all of that, just 117 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: take that away for a second, Why is this coming 118 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: up for me right now? And I needed to work 119 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: through something that was obviously deeply troubling for me and 120 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: that I needed to heal with and I hadn't spoken 121 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: to a therapist, but I hadn't spoken to anybody about it. 122 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: But I needed to do that work. And in doing that, 123 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: and I think, you know, one thing we have in 124 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: common is we talk about these vulnerable things that happen 125 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: to us, you know, our mental health, our troubles. We 126 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: do this in aid of making people feel less alone 127 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: in what they're going through, because what connects us all 128 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: as humans, you know, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. 129 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: It's the trials and tribulations we go through. And by 130 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: being vulnerable, by laying yourself bare, you give other people 131 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: an opportunity to set down their burdens, initiate conversations that 132 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: might really need to be had, and start a path 133 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: of healing. And if that can help one person, and 134 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: then I'm okay with sharing the things that have happened 135 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: to me, because sadly they're not uncommon. 136 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 3: They have a trick of convincing us that we're the 137 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 3: only person that's happening to and there's something that we 138 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 3: should probably hold some shame about, and that perpetuates how 139 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 3: bad it can be, whether it be something that you're 140 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 3: a victim of, all even a mental period of mental unwellness, 141 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 3: and that can make it last possibly longer, and be 142 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 3: way more aggravating than it needs to be. 143 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: Yah. But once we realize, well, for. 144 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 3: Me, it's hard because my ego has to understand that 145 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 3: I'm not a special snowflake. 146 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: It also happens to other people and I'm not alone. 147 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 2: Oh well, there's a whole team of people. What do 148 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: you mean there's some steps I can take? 149 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean other people have trodden this path and 150 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: I've written about it and have really deeply thought about it. 151 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: Well, it's a research and development laboratories and developed farmers 152 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: you do for exactly market caps in the billions. 153 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 4: But isn't ego funny? 154 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: Battle it every fucking day and I hate it. 155 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 4: And we all do. 156 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: And I think sometimes, like sometimes being too self aware 157 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: is just horrible. 158 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: I'm glad. 159 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: I'm glad that I am self aware, but I think 160 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: sometimes being too self aware then you start to really, like, 161 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: you know, wig out about the edges of the thing 162 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: that you're trying to grapple with. And yeah, but ego 163 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: makes us feel like this is our thing, this is 164 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: we are alone in our experience. And I think when 165 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: we can kind of break through that and understand that, hey, 166 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: we're not that, we're not you know, we're not that 167 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: special humans being human, and it's just my memoir, your memoir. 168 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: It's just our own configuration of the weird things that 169 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: happen to humans. It's like just it's just shaped or 170 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: it's mellow shaped. 171 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 3: And that's you know, the moment that happened to you 172 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 3: at the event that you went to and you went, oh. 173 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's flood of stuff came back to you. 174 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 3: I think it's important for people to understand that you 175 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 3: don't know what you've don't know, you've forgotten. Yeah, and 176 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 3: it's happened more than once in my life. 177 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, brains are really clever. You're protecting us. 178 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 179 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 3: You mentioned you didn't see or speak to a therapist 180 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 3: at the time. Has that changed? 181 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, it's changed. I had a therapist the entire time. 182 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: I just because I had repressed this particular event in 183 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: my life. I had never spoken about it to anybody, 184 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: including her, And so when that happened, when that moment 185 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: in that room and the damn will broke, then absolutely 186 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: I spoke to her about it. And I've been doing 187 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: a lot of work for people. 188 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 3: Who maybe in this situation and going to speak to 189 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 3: someone or talk to someone about it might be you know, 190 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 3: way too much. What does the pathway to? What is 191 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 3: the pathway through? Dealing with these kind of thing and feelings. 192 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: Look like it's a slow process, and I'm sure it's 193 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,599 Speaker 1: very different for everybody, but you know, for me, it 194 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: started with having that hard conversation with my therapist and 195 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: with then eventually my friends and my family. 196 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 4: To say I was right, And that was really hard. 197 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of friends took it really difficultly 198 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: because they said, how. 199 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 4: How could we not have known? You know, how could 200 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 4: we not have known? 201 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: And I feel very bad that we've known each other 202 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: for so long and I didn't know this thing had 203 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: happened to you. 204 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 4: And I said, it's not. 205 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: Your fault to bear because I didn't say anything. 206 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 4: I didn't want to talk about it. 207 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: I didn't want that to dominate, you know, or be 208 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: a feature of how you know me, or you know, 209 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: trauma bond with people like that's really dangerous too. So 210 00:10:52,840 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: it started with conversations and normalizing this conversation because it's 211 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: really it's that's that's. 212 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 4: Part of it. 213 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: And I'm trying to treat these chats like part of 214 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: the therapy, like, let's let's talk about it until I 215 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: feel okay about it being out there, because it's it's 216 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: even if I wanted to, I couldn't take it back. 217 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: Now I have to say it. But also, I guess 218 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: the over arching reason why I'm having this discussion and 219 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: I wrote it into the book, is that when this 220 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: happened to me, discussions of consent were not being had 221 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: in the way that they are now. And I really 222 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: want to drive home the point that can consent is 223 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: not just a throwaway line that we joke about. It's 224 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: not a meme on TikTok. It is crucial in the 225 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: way that we navigate each other, and consent or a 226 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: withdrawal of consent needs to be understood. And it's not 227 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: just you know, yeah, it's not just a feminism buzzword. 228 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: It can any time, and you can and exactly you 229 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 1: have agency over whether or not you choose to give 230 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: or withdrawal consent. 231 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, what would you say to people about what recovery 232 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 3: can look like and what life can look like On 233 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 3: the other side of that. 234 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: I think that recovery is a choice I have very 235 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: like in a very meaningful way decided. You know, there 236 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 1: have been some not nice things that have happened to 237 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: me in my life, not just this one thing, but 238 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 1: other you know, other issues and o those situations that 239 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: have happened to me in my life. And the way 240 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: that I choose to see it is that I want 241 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: to live a life that is meaningful and rich and contented. 242 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 1: And in order to do that, I need to set 243 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: down these bags that have been handed to me, not 244 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: some of some not of my choice, but it is 245 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: my choice to set them down and walk away. And 246 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: when you get to do the work and you have 247 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: consolidated how you feel about things, part of the next 248 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: phase of the healing is to set it down and 249 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: to continue on without it, and you will feel lighter 250 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: and better about things. But it is a choice to 251 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: want to seek contentment and to seek a life that 252 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: you want to live. I don't want to live a 253 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: life where I wear a chip on my shoulder and 254 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: I'm angry about everything all of the time. 255 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 4: Am I angry about some of the things that have 256 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 4: happened to me? 257 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 2: Fuck yeah. 258 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: But there's a difference in being able to recognize that 259 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: I am or I was. But I can separate myself 260 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: from that. It's not fused to me in a way 261 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: that I can't take it off and leave it and 262 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: walk away. It needs to be separate from us. 263 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 2: In recovery, they call it to drop the rock. 264 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, you observe all of. 265 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: The things that become your burden, and if you let 266 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: it define you, then you are never going to better 267 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: let go of that rock. But doing the work to 268 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: heal is about separating you from what happened to you 269 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: and realizing that you don't have to you know, what. 270 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 3: Does it look like when you're navigating relationships again or 271 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 3: navigating intimacy, Like, what can that look like? 272 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 1: Just taking it a little slower, taking it a little slower, 273 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: and realizing that. I think for me because of the 274 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: way I grew up in a family where I didn't 275 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: essentially feel safe, like there was a lot of abuse 276 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: going on, and so I didn't feel like my parents 277 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: were not people I could go to feel comfort. So 278 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: I know that I seek certain qualities and people, or 279 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: that I have trauma bonded with people friends and you know, 280 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: not just romantic relationships with friends as well, and that 281 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: that's not a healthy way to find because it's a 282 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: false sense of depth that can really lead you down 283 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: the wrong path as well, and then you start to 284 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: I've known people who will find a way into hearing 285 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: your damage and then create or find something relevant in 286 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: their life to make you feel seen. And then you've 287 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: feel like, oh, you get me, and so I see 288 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: you and you see me, and we've both gone through 289 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: this horrible thing. Therefore we are meant to be friends, 290 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: were meant to be fused together in some way, and 291 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: it creates, I think, an emotional sense of connection that 292 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: really isn't there. Friendships don't and relationships don't necessarily form 293 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: healthily in that Petri dish of sadness. They just don't, 294 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: and so that is not a good way. I used 295 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: to think. Okay, here's an example. I used to think 296 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: in dating that if you are just you put everything 297 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: on the table on the first date. He's everything, he's 298 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: all the ugly, embarrassing shit. 299 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 4: Take it or leave it. 300 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: I thought that was the healthy way to do it, 301 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: because then that person's dating me for me. But that 302 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: is so not the right thing at all, because then 303 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: people get to pick and choose the things that they 304 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: want to identify with or they want to hook you 305 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: in with and. 306 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 4: Then they know all. 307 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: Your pressure points and your pain points to manipulate you 308 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: into whatever it is that fits their life. Oh boy, 309 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: and it's not healthy. And I've so I've learned not 310 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: to just be like, here's my everything. Yeah, I've learned 311 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: to try and find the happy things that connect you 312 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: with somebody new rather than you know, and you'll get 313 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: if the friendship is meant to be, the relationship is 314 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: meant to be, then you'll get to that stuff eventually. 315 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: But you don't have to start with that stuff. It 316 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be that raw and that ugly that early. 317 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 3: It's very clear to hear that you have put a 318 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 3: lot of effort into this kind of stuff and thought 319 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 3: about it in a very deep way, by the way 320 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 3: that you kind of qualify and speak about trying the 321 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 3: work you've done. Yeah, okay, And I hope people can 322 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 3: hear that it's worth it to put the effort in 323 00:16:55,680 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 3: because the agency that was taken from you, yeah, is 324 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 3: reclaimed by taking responsibility and working through it. 325 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 2: Now it's mine. 326 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 327 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: Reclaiming identity, reclaiming your energy and your power. 328 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, so important, so important. 329 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: And you have agency over like I think that's the 330 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: thing that people need to realize is that you, as 331 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 1: an individual, if you want that. 332 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 4: Power back, you take it back. 333 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: It's hard, like, it's not an easy thing to just 334 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: be like oh yeah, like done. 335 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 336 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 3: But luckily Zac de la Roca and his mates from 337 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 3: Rage against the Machine write a great song that can 338 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 3: serve as a sundry to get you in there. 339 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 1: I wish, like I wanted to reference that song in 340 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: my book, and do you know how much it would 341 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: have cost? 342 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 4: Like my publisher? 343 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: Like the lyrics, I just because that's that's it's a 344 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: mantra that's in my head all of the time. And 345 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: they said, we know you love this lyric and we've 346 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: investigated it and it's real spinny, it's really expensive. Do 347 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: you really want to do that? And I and they said, 348 00:17:59,080 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: we would, we would. 349 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 3: It's a great band called Raging Against the Machine and 350 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 3: they have a song title. 351 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 2: I can't remember it. It sounds like fake the Shower hack. 352 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, thank the Shower. 353 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 2: I'm here to help. 354 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 3: I had to get around all about a thousand kinds 355 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 3: of copyright shit. I live Telly just to get a 356 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 3: joke or you got to do it. 357 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 4: There's one that starts with like pluck food. I won't 358 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 4: do what you smelled. 359 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, tuck pluck food. 360 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 4: I like pluck food. 361 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 2: It'll come to me. 362 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 4: Yeah. 363 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 3: Now, now the questions in my subconscious at an inappropriate 364 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 3: time before the end of this conversation. 365 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 2: Fantastic, which will be. 366 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 4: Great for me. 367 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: It's like next week at you know, four thirty in 368 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: the afternoon and I will have to text you about it. 369 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 2: So I'm here. 370 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 3: I'm when it came to saying yes to Telly. That 371 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 3: is a all mighty, almighty gauntlet to pick up, sure 372 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 3: to carry for with that. 373 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the bar was set really high. 374 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, those dudes. 375 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: I heard lightning in a bottle many times and it's 376 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: and credit where credits due. 377 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's a mighty format. What Australia did with that 378 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 3: format turn it from like it is really best format 379 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 3: in the world, a little bit better than ready Steady 380 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 3: Cook mid morning cooking show that came from overseas. It 381 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 3: was you watch original word versions of it's like what 382 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 3: this is Master Chef and turned it. 383 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 2: Into the magical. 384 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: Emotionally, such an important thing for so many families. The 385 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: amount of people over the last few years that have 386 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 1: come up and spoken to me and said, this is 387 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: the thing I do with my kid, Yes, and then 388 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: my kid doesn't want to do anything else with me. 389 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: But this is the thing we share together and the 390 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: fact that I got to be part of that is beautiful. 391 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 2: What was it? And I'm sure you've asked this question 392 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 2: many times, but. 393 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 3: That's an exciting, exciting opportunity being a p person. You're 394 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 3: very you're very aware, like I, I'm not Anglo, I'm 395 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 3: the smart person. I'm going to very be very ladily 396 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 3: not anglo and smart, Telly, you know exactly what you're 397 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 3: walking into. Absolutely, did you ever think about what was coming? 398 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: Oh one hundred percent, you know, and coming from a 399 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: journalism background as well, like it's my job to be 400 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: skeptical and also observant. And for the last decade prior, 401 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: was extremely aware of what happened to the former you know, 402 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: the former lineup in terms of their lives exploded into 403 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 1: a public space. Maybe they weren't expecting that, and that's 404 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: that's that's a huge transition of just doing a job 405 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: to like people wanting to know very specific details about 406 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: you that you know, if you're a private person, you 407 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: might not want to share. So I was aware that 408 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: if I said yes to that opportunit unity, that tremendous opportunity. 409 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 1: It would change my life, ef I wouldn't be able 410 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: to write in the same way because I wouldn't have 411 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: that same level of anonymity and perhaps objectivity as well, 412 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, because people want to know what you think. 413 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: So everything's suddenly weirdly like it becomes an OpEd, Everything 414 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: becomes an OpEd a little bit more. I knew I 415 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: would everything would have to change, and that was a 416 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 1: big question. 417 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 4: Could I do it? Would I would? 418 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: I would I be able to live with the things 419 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: that they don't tell you about that are going to 420 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: happen to you in your life. 421 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 2: Did you call anyone? Did you talk to anyone who 422 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 2: was on air? 423 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: No, I didn't call anyone. I talked to the people 424 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 1: in my life about it. And I really thought about it. 425 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: And I had spent so much time in my career 426 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: and hospitality promoting ostensibly white men, you know, and some 427 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: of them are my mates, like you guys are okay, 428 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: Like it's fine, but in terms of who we see 429 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: on screens and who else might you know be great 430 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: for the job, you know. I was really respectful of 431 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,959 Speaker 1: the fact that I was there in that conversation, and 432 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: I sort of what sined it for me as I 433 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: sat down, and I said, well, if not me, then 434 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: who I can. 435 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 4: Do the job. 436 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: So let's give it a go and say yes to 437 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: the thing that's slightly scary and and see what happens. 438 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: And do I regret it? 439 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 2: No? 440 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 4: But has it been smooth sailing the entire time? Also? No, Like, 441 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 4: why would we expect that to be the case? 442 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: There has to be a trade off somewhere, and the 443 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: trade off has been privacy. 444 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 4: It has been. 445 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: You can't correct every narrative that's out there about you, 446 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: even if it is heinously offensive. You can't go and 447 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: it's whack a mole, like there are too many you know, 448 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: too many things to say close. 449 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 2: Observer, close observers and sources. 450 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 4: Those those guys don't know all things. 451 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, they know everything, and they and they wanted to 452 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: they want to say some scathing things sometimes and you 453 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: have to let that go because it's not. 454 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 4: You can't sweat that stuff. 455 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 2: It's hard, but it's hard. 456 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 4: Oh, I was at the beginning. You should have seen me. 457 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 1: I was so upset all of the time because I'm like, 458 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: that's not even remotely true. How could they possibly say that? 459 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: And now I'm just like you know what, I know 460 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: who I am, I know how I carry myself. 461 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 4: Through the world. 462 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: Am I am someone who will make mistakes. Of course 463 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: every human does. But I would like to think that 464 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: the way that I do what I do is done 465 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: with a great amount of consideration, not just for me, 466 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: but for every person of color that might come in 467 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: or be given an opportunity after me. I would never 468 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: muddy the waters. I would never poison the well for them. 469 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: And that's all you need to know is that I 470 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: would never ever do that to squash opportunities for other people, 471 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 1: because we need to see diversity. 472 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 3: What does it mean for you to know that there's 473 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 3: young Australian born Chinese kids. 474 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, looking on the telly and there you are. 475 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: I didn't really think about it too much at the 476 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: beginning because I'm just a freelancer doing a job and 477 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 1: it was a hell of a gig. But what changed 478 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: for me is when people started coming up and telling me, 479 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: and you have to stop and listen to that. You know, 480 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: I'm a massive into it. I'll walk into a room 481 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: and i won't be looking at anyone. I'll just be 482 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: kind of just like thinking thoughts and walking around and 483 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: I must look like I'm a bit mad or something, 484 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: maybe have resting bitch face, who knows. 485 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 4: But I remember once walking. 486 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: Into a pharmacy and I was just like browsing around 487 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: and a woman just like very gentlely came up and 488 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: tapped me on the shoulder and she just said, she goes, 489 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: I don't want to interrupt you, but I just want 490 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: to say thank you. 491 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 4: And she. 492 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: Was emotional about it, and you know, she decided I 493 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 1: just want to say thank you. Well, you know, and 494 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: I had to really stop. I mean, I was holding 495 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: a box of tampons at the time, which was a 496 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: little bit awkward. But you have to stop and take 497 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: that seriously and appreciate that it does matter to people. 498 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: And you know, in writing this book, when I've been 499 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: doing book signings, it's the most amount of contact I've 500 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: had with people. Because you have to remember, I started 501 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: the show during a pandemic, so there was an It 502 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: was online only, which is easy to kind of close 503 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: your phone because you can, but the tangibility of meeting 504 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,120 Speaker 1: people in person wasn't part of my experience. So now 505 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: that I'm meeting people and the amount of people that say, 506 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: my daughter's ate and she loves watching you, and what 507 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: it means to me to be first generation and see 508 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: my kid see someone on TV that they want to 509 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 1: be like, makes a huge has made a huge impact 510 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: in her life. I appreciate that so much. You know, 511 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: one of many, and it makes me very happy to 512 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: see that. Everyday things are changing, but the needle moves 513 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: very slowly in this country, you know, for some network's diversity. 514 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 4: Is Brunette. 515 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 3: Just taking a mode away from mel Leong to play 516 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 3: some ads while I have you. He's an ad from 517 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 3: me Story Club ninth of November. We have Mark Humphrey's 518 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 3: Harley Breen, Nina Oyama, and Beck Melrose. 519 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 2: Nina was in deadlock, Beck malose rights for growing. I 520 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 2: will be there this. 521 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 3: To one guest yet to be announced. We're just getting 522 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 3: an email locked back after that. There's probably going to 523 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 3: be our last show for the year. It's live storytelling, 524 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 3: live comedy storytelling, and it's super super duper fun. The 525 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 3: theme this show is the apple doesn't fall far from 526 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 3: the tree. It's good. Tickets are in the show notes. 527 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 3: That's where you can also pick up a copy of 528 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 3: my book. 529 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 2: So what now? 530 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 3: What as well as Back After the Break, my first book. 531 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 3: We're be back with mel Leong, who's written her book 532 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 3: called Guts in a Moment. There's a line in the 533 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 3: book that I'm I'm kind of interested in and I'm like, 534 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 3: you're kind of chat about it. The choice to blow 535 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,239 Speaker 3: up your life is not for the faint hearted, and 536 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 3: it is admittedly extremely selfish. We all kind of think, 537 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 3: I know an easy way out of this. 538 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 2: Detonate. 539 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 3: Rarely do we do that. What goes on before you 540 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 3: hit that button? Like, and you know, tell me about 541 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 3: that idea of blowing up to it? 542 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, I I It is not for 543 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: the faint hearted, and it is extremely selfish. And there 544 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: are very few times in life where we can see 545 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: the gap where it might be the right time to 546 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: do that. But for me, what I mean by that is, 547 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: you know, there have been times in my life where 548 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: I've been living a perfectly fine existence, you know, on 549 00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: paper or good, but something doesn't feel right, Like internally, 550 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: there is a something like a block it that's saying, hey, 551 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: you are not living in harmony of what feels right 552 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: for you. And for many times in my life that 553 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: this has happened it is. I've reached a point where 554 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: I can't ignore that feeling anymore, and I need to 555 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 1: address it in a certain way. And even though it 556 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: seems very ungrateful to be like, oh, you've got a 557 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: nice partner, you've got a nice apartment, you've got a 558 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: cute dog, and everything's working out well, if it doesn't 559 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: feel right, if that's not the life I was meant 560 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: to be living, then I need to change it somehow. 561 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: And so, yeah, there have been times in my life 562 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: where I've pulled up stumps and you know, started again 563 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: from the ground up, and it has not been easy, 564 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: and I'm aware that it might have hurt people along 565 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: the way as well. But I have to hope that 566 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: by being honest with my feelings with everybody that they 567 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: will eventually understand that it's in everybody's best interest, because 568 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: if we're not living holy, if we're not living in 569 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: a way that we feel like we can wake up 570 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: in the morning and be like, okay, this is let's 571 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: do this. You know, not every day is glorious, but 572 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: it's your life, then yeah, you know, like that's I 573 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: want to I want to always live with that level 574 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: of feeling like I'm heading in the right direction, even 575 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: if I don't know what that direction is. That I'm 576 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: going in the right way, you know. I guess living 577 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: your truth is a really cliched way of saying it. 578 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: But I need to live my life feeling like I'm 579 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: good with who I am, or at least make choices 580 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: that make me feel like they're right. And so, yeah, 581 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, I pulled up stumps and I moved to 582 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: Tasmania twelve years ago. I lived on an abatoire and 583 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: a sheep dairy and you know, in that time, and 584 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: I you know, I started again. But had I not 585 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: have done those things, I wouldn't be here today. And 586 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: I'm grateful for all of the little choices that add 587 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: up to maybe a very different life to what I 588 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: would have had otherwise. 589 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 2: I like that you. I liked that you were into 590 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 2: it with an avatire. 591 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I would like and I would hope 592 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 3: that other people understand what it is that goes into 593 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 3: what is on their plate. 594 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: I didn't work there every day, but I did do 595 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: some time there because as a food writer, I had 596 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: spent so much of my life in fancy restaurants, in 597 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,959 Speaker 1: nice clothes, in big cities. Eating delicious food, having no 598 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: tangible grasp on what it takes for the food to 599 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: be in front of you. And so if given the 600 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: opportunity to really explore and understand and respect what it 601 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: takes to get there from literally the ground up, I 602 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: think if you're going to eat whatever you choose to eat, 603 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: you need to be okay with it. And so this 604 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: was a great food education for me of living on farms, 605 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: being in that world for just a very short period 606 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: of time, but it was as close as I could 607 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: get to putting my money where my mouth is, and 608 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: I'm really glad that I was given that grounding in. 609 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: You know how hard life is on an agricultural level. 610 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: Farmers are the bedrock of our lives. Without soil, without farmers, 611 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: we have nothing. 612 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 2: Can you just explore that a little bit more with meat? 613 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, the why do you think it's important for people 614 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 3: to understand what's on their plate and how it came. 615 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 2: To be there? 616 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: Well, because if food is abstract to you, if you 617 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: just if you buy your meat from a supermarket or 618 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: from a butcher, and it you know, it arrives proportioned 619 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: and you know, ready for you to you know, for 620 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: you to cook you have no connection with where it 621 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: has come from and the sacrifices that have been made 622 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: in order for you to get to eat it. Food 623 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: is hard to come by. We are so lucky, you know, 624 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: we get to talk about food like it's a you know, 625 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: it's a given, and it's not a given to everybody. 626 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 2: Our society has a wrong with too many calories. Yeah, 627 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 2: that's incredible. 628 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: Food shortages, food scares, it is a real thing, even 629 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: in this country. You know. I was speaking to Ronnie 630 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,239 Speaker 1: Kahn about all of the amazing work that she does 631 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: with os Harvest to you know, bridge the gaps to 632 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: help reduce food waste and to address food scarcity in 633 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: this country. And these are you know, and we live 634 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: in a remarkably privileged, you know kind of place. So 635 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: if it's happening here, then it's happening everywhere, obviously, and 636 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: we need to wherever we're given the opportunity. I just 637 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: believe that, you know, take the time to appreciate where 638 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: it comes from, so that when you eat, you appreciate 639 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: what you're eating just a little bit more. 640 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 3: There's something about you which people may understand is that 641 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 3: you are into combat sports. 642 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, how did it start? 643 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: For I started pandemic. It was a pandemic thing. I 644 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: started watching MMA during the pandemic, and other people were baking, 645 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: I was watching combat sports. 646 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 2: Way, what was it about it that you liked? 647 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: Martial arts has been with humans since the beginning of humanity, 648 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: Like it's been part of who we are. But what 649 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by is fearlessness. I watch these incredible athletes 650 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: and they're not just masters of one sport but many. 651 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: And it's about fight iq being present in the moment, 652 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: being able to read your opponent, being able to train 653 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: and try to plan for how to be the winner, 654 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: but having to shift on the fly as well, depending 655 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: on the conditions at play. But also for you as 656 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,959 Speaker 1: an athlete, how did you get to be there? Like, 657 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: what's the story there? It has to be a pretty 658 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: amazing story. It's not just oh, I was really good 659 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: at sports, so I decided to pick up all the 660 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: sports and then just smash them up and do this sport. 661 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 4: That's not what it's about for me. 662 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: It's about the human story always, And so whether or 663 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: not I'm drawing out a story from somebody who's you know, 664 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: cooking in a forty five minute challenge, in the Master 665 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: Chef kitchen or I'm interviewing an MMA fighter. Passion and 666 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: purpose is so important to me. I want to know 667 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: what makes people tick. I want to know what gives 668 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: them the currentge, the audacity, the fearlessness to be who 669 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: they are, and especially in that arena. It's a tough 670 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 1: world and that's a really it's a really tough sport. 671 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: I want to know what it takes to be in 672 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: that world. I find it really fascinating. And for me, 673 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 1: seeing the shapes and seeing the strategy and seeing the 674 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: way that sports layer upon each other, it's like it's 675 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: it's a it's like six games of chess happening at 676 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: the same time, with really dire consequences, And I find 677 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 1: that fascinating. 678 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 2: What do you think. 679 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 3: People get wrong about MMA Fighter's what's the misconceptions there? 680 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: I think they judge MMA for being, oh, it's a 681 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: blood sport. It's just like laughing at violence. It's not 682 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: actually that at all. And when you meet people, and 683 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,720 Speaker 1: you know, when you go to a martial arts gym 684 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: and you meet people, they're some of the most chill, respectful, 685 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: lovely people you'll ever meet, because they're into the discipline. 686 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: Of learning they're into, they're there for technique, they're there 687 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: for community. And so to write people off as oh, 688 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: you just lack violence, that's really not what I'm seeing 689 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: when I watch MMA. I'm seeing multi disciplinary athletes at 690 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: the height of their abilities, doing what they do best 691 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: and doing what they love doing. And so I appreciate 692 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: every part of that, the courage and the athleticism. 693 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 3: You've started training yourself, what is it that you're hoping 694 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 3: to find out about yourself from doing this? 695 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:30,439 Speaker 2: From studying Brazili jiu jitsu. 696 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: Firstly, it's been really great for my anxiety and for 697 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: just finding a community of people that just love this 698 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: one thing. And I'm tremendously welcoming about anybody who wants 699 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: to learn. Like, whatever your level, I'm just a two 700 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 1: strike white belt, I know nothing, But there's a lifetime 701 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 1: of learning to build, there's a lifetime of technique to accrue. 702 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: But what I'm hoping to find out about myself is 703 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: do I have, you know, the problem solving abilities to 704 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: be upside down and backwards and still be able to 705 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: find my center again? You know, Like that's what the 706 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: world is is. We're inside this giant washing machine all 707 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 1: of the time where so much is happening, But can 708 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,359 Speaker 1: you find moments of quiet clarity in all of the 709 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: movement and all of the things going on where life 710 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:17,320 Speaker 1: still makes sense. 711 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 3: Since you've been studying jiu jitsu, yeah, what's changed about 712 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 3: the way you deal with adversity. 713 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: Or well, look, it doesn't take a psychologist to kind 714 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: of go Okay, she's come from, you know, a background 715 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 1: of abuse and not nice things have happened to her 716 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: that she wants to learn martial arts to feel a 717 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,839 Speaker 1: little bit stronger, you know, And that's fine, and part 718 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: of that's partially true. Like I do walk out of there, 719 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: not that I think I'm going to win every fid 720 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: or that, you know, I can walk down the street. 721 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 4: At night and feel, you know, fearless. 722 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: It's not about that, but it does give me a 723 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,919 Speaker 1: sense of strength that I didn't have before. It gives 724 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,240 Speaker 1: me a sense of self possession I maybe didn't have before. 725 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: And also it's great, Like from a fitness perspective, it's 726 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: been phenomenal. So you know, you need you need to 727 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: be strong, you need to have strength, and you need 728 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: to have great cardio as well, and so building towards that, 729 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 1: especially in forty three. 730 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, but twenty three is like twenty eight. 731 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 4: Come on, yeah, you said it, I didn't say. 732 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 3: Look Ordrew says it all the times he goes Chinese 733 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 3: blood is strong. 734 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, fucking know, Chinese virgin. Yeah. 735 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: I mean a great convo, great fantastic combo. 736 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 2: She calls herself you brazen, you brazen. I love it. 737 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay. 738 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: Genetics aside, like, I mean, you know, might look younger 739 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: than I am, but for me, it's about quality of life. 740 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: You know, as you hit your forties or fifties or sixties, 741 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: I want to be able to hold my head up 742 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: and I want to be able to kind of be 743 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: fit and do the things I want to do and 744 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: not be physically limited for as. 745 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 4: Long as possible. 746 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: Whatever life's going to doll out, it's going to dole out. 747 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,959 Speaker 1: But for me, something like jiu jitsu is really great 748 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: because it's teaching me commitment to conditioning and strength and 749 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: health and fueling. Like I've never thought of food as 750 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: fuel as the central proposition because food has always been 751 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: pleasure for me. It's always been about the pursuit of happiness. 752 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: But I really understand that if you don't eat right 753 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: you can't train properly, and so understanding the nutrition and 754 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: the timing aspects of food is something that's fascinating to 755 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 1: me and fits again fits back into my wheelhouse, and 756 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: so that's sort of something that I'm discovering as well. 757 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 3: Just to touch to circle back just a little bit, 758 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 3: for there was a person in my life who had 759 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,479 Speaker 3: as a victim of sexual assault and it was quite 760 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,240 Speaker 3: extreme and that literally couldn't be near, couldn't take public transport, 761 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 3: but couldn't be near other humans. Found her way to 762 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 3: that through Roller Derby, whoa on roller skates. 763 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 2: Smashing into people. 764 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 3: Was transformative because it was a completely different context in 765 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,359 Speaker 3: which physical contact. 766 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 4: Happened, and you've got agency realized. 767 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 2: Like smashing into big people. 768 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there is something also admittedly cathartic about about that. 769 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 3: When people watch MMA and you know, jiu jitsu in 770 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 3: a g in a training gym a very very very 771 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 3: different things, very extremely but you'll be there upside down 772 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:28,919 Speaker 3: with someone's perenium in your eyeball, you know, and you're 773 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 3: in an arm lock and you don't want it, like 774 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 3: it's my perfect Friday. You are, you are close. 775 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 1: Extremely close quarters, it really is. But I have agency 776 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: in that. I have agency in that. And also I 777 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:46,440 Speaker 1: suppose you know, in my particular situation, you know, it 778 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: wasn't a violent attack that happened to me. It was 779 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: far more insidious and subtle than that. But nevertheless, is 780 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,720 Speaker 1: the same thing. So it is, it is same and different, 781 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: but for me having agency over putting myself in situations 782 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: like that. But I'm really when you're in it, Yes, 783 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: it's funny objectively, is someone you know, you're in someone's 784 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: arm pit that you've just met, but you're not thinking 785 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,720 Speaker 1: about that. You're thinking about how to survive the round. 786 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 1: You're thinking about strategy, You're thinking about getting your frames 787 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,360 Speaker 1: back and getting space between you and the other person. 788 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,919 Speaker 1: You're thinking about those things, and by being present, thinking 789 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: about technique and framing and how to advance. 790 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 4: Into your the next position that you want. 791 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: To be in, you're not thinking about anything else, and 792 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: so that's really wonderful. 793 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 2: It's a lot of work to get your mindfulness in there. Yeah, 794 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 2: did you think about your as. 795 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: Some people sit and meditate on a hill. I do dojitsu. 796 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: That's that's different horses to different courses. But that's that's okay. 797 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I did it. I wolf did it for a while. 798 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 3: What I really loved about jiu jitsu is that, unlike 799 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 3: other martial arts or things where there is a grading involved, 800 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 3: you cannot ascend without You have to be humble. You 801 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 3: have to absolutely humility is baked into it. You have 802 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 3: to go every day you are better than me. Every 803 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 3: day I'm tapping because you're better than me, and I 804 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 3: cannot show, I cannot prove that I'm not as good 805 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 3: as you. 806 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: You can hold out for a certain period of time, 807 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,479 Speaker 1: but at some point you're going to need to tap 808 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,320 Speaker 1: because if you're about to be submitted, because otherwise you 809 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: will pass out so or you'll you know, tear a ligament. 810 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 1: So neither of those things you want to do unless 811 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: you have to. But it is tremendously humbling, and I 812 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 1: kind of love it because, like it's the one place 813 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,360 Speaker 1: in my life that I get to go and no 814 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,479 Speaker 1: one gives a shit who anybody is. Like there's often 815 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: a joke about, you know, in one room, you could 816 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: have you know, a criminal, the guy, the cop who 817 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: arrested him, the judge that got him off, you know, 818 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: like all ll happily rolling together. It's just it's such 819 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: an eclectic group of people that there are who do it. 820 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,399 Speaker 1: There are you know, guys who smoke wheed all day 821 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: doing it, and everyone comes to it from a different perspective, 822 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,320 Speaker 1: but it's a very equalizing space. 823 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 2: What is it? What is it? 824 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,280 Speaker 3: What would you say about accessing that kind of humility 825 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 3: in a deliberate way? 826 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 2: What does it give you? 827 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: Oh, it's so good. It's for me to be humbled. 828 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: Is I think something that it's really healthy. I think 829 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,799 Speaker 1: everybody needs to experience that because it puts. 830 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 4: Life into context. 831 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 1: It really really does the things that happened to you suddenly, 832 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 1: things that might have bothered you before don't bother you anymore. 833 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: Is it worth raising this issue? Is this the hell 834 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 1: you want to die on? 835 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 2: Like? 836 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: It suddenly just puts everything for me into perspective. And 837 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,279 Speaker 1: all you really have at the end of the day 838 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: is yourself, But you always have the capacity to learn 839 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 1: and just to be like you have agency over that. 840 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 4: So that's what it teaches me. 841 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 2: Food. 842 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,880 Speaker 3: I won't coop at a turkey. 843 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 2: I told you where to come a turkey. 844 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 1: I told you you do a great Sachel Rock. 845 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:18,720 Speaker 2: That was Melissa Leong. 846 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 3: Her brand new memoir is called Guts you can get 847 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,360 Speaker 3: it where you get your book books. 848 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,879 Speaker 2: Book you can get that where you get your books. 849 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 3: I put a link in the show notes where you 850 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 3: can also get a copy of So What Now What, 851 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,239 Speaker 3: my latest book that I wrote with Campbell Walker. And 852 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 3: tickets to go and see Story Club Sunday, the ninth 853 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,919 Speaker 3: of November, Factory Theater, Marckvell. Come along, do something fun, 854 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 3: enjoy your laugh. I'll see you on Monday. Thanks for listening.