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Speaker 1: As you've heard on five Double A News this morning,

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Speaker 1: Westpac and Optus working together to develop scam proof calling technology,

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Speaker 1: which means that if you get a call from Westpac

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Speaker 1: in the future, and presumably you'll need to be with Optus,

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Speaker 1: but we'll find out it will be from the bank

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Speaker 1: and not somebody claiming to be from west Pack. It

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Speaker 1: won't just come up Westpac on your phone and it's

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Speaker 1: not them. Let's find out. Ben Young, head of fraud

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Speaker 1: Prevention at Westpac. Ben, good morning, Thanks for your time.

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Speaker 2: Good morning mate, please to be here.

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Speaker 1: How will it work? Do you have to be an

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Speaker 1: Optus customer as well as a Westpac customer?

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Speaker 2: No, you definitely don't. It is Optis that we've partnered

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Speaker 2: with and we're very proud to have done that partnership

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Speaker 2: to allow us to originate the calls from Westpac. But no,

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Speaker 2: you can. The customer themselves can be a customer of

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Speaker 2: any telco, so Telstra, votaphone doesn't matter. It will just

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Speaker 2: come through saying that the call originated from us and

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Speaker 2: that optors verify it is us at the sending party calls.

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Speaker 1: All right, So that's pretty good. And this is the problem,

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Speaker 1: isn't it where you might get a call and it

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Speaker 1: comes up branded, for instance Westpac, but it's not necessarily

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Speaker 1: west Pack it's a scammer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole telecommunications world can be a bit hard

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Speaker 2: for people to navigate, and I think most people these days,

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Speaker 2: including myself, pretty much just don't take calls from unknown numbers,

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Speaker 2: and as you say, even branded ones you can sometimes

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Speaker 2: be pretty suspicious of, and you're right to be suspicious.

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Speaker 2: So this really helps solve that problem. People will know

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Speaker 2: it's unambiguously US if we're calling it is west Back,

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Speaker 2: and in fact, the technology doesn't just say it's US,

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Speaker 2: it also says why we're calling, So we might be

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Speaker 2: saying we're calling you back just about your home loan,

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Speaker 2: or calling you back about your credit card where we

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Speaker 2: see an unusual transaction. So you'll know why we're calling.

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Speaker 2: So you can still choose to screen the call, but

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Speaker 2: at least you know the reason we're calling.

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Speaker 1: So that'll come up on the screen, all that info.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's calling from within the app, essentially it's

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Speaker 2: in our calling right, it allows us to convey so

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Speaker 2: much more information about who it is and why we're calling.

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Speaker 1: So presumably you need to have downloaded the Westpac app.

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Speaker 2: You do need the app. We are looking at technology

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Speaker 2: around that, but at the moment you do, you need

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Speaker 2: the app in store. But most of our customers, particularly

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Speaker 2: the customers that we're likely to be calling about important

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Speaker 2: matters like this, do tend to have the appen store.

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Speaker 1: Now, all right, what about texts? And there's been people

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Speaker 1: scammed out of money where they have a text exchange

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Speaker 1: with Westpac and a legitimate one and then a scammer

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Speaker 1: jumps on that. So you look at the latest text

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Speaker 1: and you think it is from Westpac, but it's a scammer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is the alpha tag problem and phone

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Speaker 2: numbers spoofing generally on text messages. So yeah, unfortunately, and

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Speaker 2: there is technology being changed in the telecommunication space to

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Speaker 2: change that in Australia, but at the moment, you can

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Speaker 2: impersonate any number or name you like to some degree

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Speaker 2: on text messages. So this is exactly the sort of

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Speaker 2: problem that we're getting around with this technology. But it

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Speaker 2: does that has some specific scams where people do that,

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Speaker 2: but it also just adds general confusion into two phone

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Speaker 2: calls from trusted organizations.

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Speaker 1: And that's the thing, isn't it? These days? You've got

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Speaker 1: no idea and the fact that they can do this,

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Speaker 1: I mean, surely it's a major gap in our technology

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Speaker 1: around the world that allows scammers to We can do

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Speaker 1: so much with technology. Gosh, we put somebody on the

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Speaker 1: moon sixty odd years ago, yet we can't stop a

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Speaker 1: scammer hijacking a number.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think a lot of these things about the

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Speaker 2: way the phone networks were set up and about the

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Speaker 2: way they allowed phone numbers to be misrepresented as other

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Speaker 2: things had very different purposes back in the day. And

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Speaker 2: then the world moves on and scammers move on, and

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Speaker 2: then what seems like a good feature at the time

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Speaker 2: gets misused and has more to the illegitimate uses these days,

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Speaker 2: and so you've got to try to play catch up

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Speaker 2: with in those technologies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So what do people need to know immediately?

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Speaker 1: For Westpac customers at this stage? So all this info

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Speaker 1: comes up, and how long before it's up and running

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Speaker 1: or is it now?

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Speaker 2: So we'll be rolling out from September and people start

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Speaker 2: to see it for outbound calls from about September omoth

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Speaker 2: that one will be beginning to use this. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's nothing particular have to do. There's no enrollment. You

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Speaker 2: simply need to have the latest version of the appen store,

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Speaker 2: which most phones will just do automatically. And we have

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Speaker 2: lots of good information on our website about it if

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Speaker 2: people are confused by that. But it will be relatively straightforward.

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Speaker 2: It'll just look like a call, except it'll be a

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Speaker 2: call from within the app.

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Speaker 1: So, yeah, is this going to flow through to Westpac?

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Speaker 1: So if you're with Saint George, your bank is say

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Speaker 1: here you have automatically covered with this and the same

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Speaker 1: will apply.

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Speaker 2: So the September rollout will be for the Westpac brand,

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Speaker 2: but we're looking at rolling out to other technologies later on,

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Speaker 2: other brands later on, so I should say. But obviously

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Speaker 2: lots of South Astralian customers on the west Back brand

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Speaker 2: currently and yeah, we'll just in later phases we'll look

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Speaker 2: at other brands.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So it's I mean, it's going to be industry wide.

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Speaker 1: You would think before too long anyway, I would.

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Speaker 2: Be staggered if it's not. This is really the truth.

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Speaker 2: This will be the future of how big brands will

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Speaker 2: want to talk to you, and I would would suggest

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Speaker 2: government as well. This is it just adds so much

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Speaker 2: more efficiency to interactions where people can know who's calling them.

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Speaker 1: Is the technology straightforward? Relatively?

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Speaker 2: It is? Yeah, I mean in that calling has been

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Speaker 2: around for a while, we haven't seen it before from

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Speaker 2: a bank with with the first so certainly the first

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Speaker 2: in Australia. So but yeah, so having your app as

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Speaker 2: essentially being a voice method of communication is new for banking,

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Speaker 2: but not new. You know, you've seen this in WhatsApp

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Speaker 2: and other apps outside of the phone app to deliver

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Speaker 2: a voice, but it's new in banking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So basically you're adding the WhatsApp featured to your

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Speaker 1: app essentially. That's it.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, and sorry I'm not an expert on that,

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Speaker 2: but certainly this idea that we can not only say

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Speaker 2: who's calling, but what it's about, that is a really

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Speaker 2: unique feature which I'm super excited about the difference that

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Speaker 2: they'll make to a customer's response.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, maybe we'll send you holiday snaps in the future.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, good on your Ben. It's a great initiative

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Speaker 1: and well done. Thank you for your time. Thanks having us,

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Speaker 1: Ben Young, head of fraud Prevention West Pack. So you

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Speaker 1: will need the app and they'll call you through the

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Speaker 1: app on your phone if there is an issue, so

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Speaker 1: you'll you'll know it's them rather than getting a phone

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Speaker 1: call and it says west Pack, it comes up Westpac,

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Speaker 1: but it's actually not