WEBVTT - “Deputy Sheriff” Albo’s Wartime Transformation

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM. When

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<v Speaker 1>the United States launch strikes in Iran, Australia was quick

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<v Speaker 1>to back the move. Prime Minister Anthony Alberzi says it's

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<v Speaker 1>about defending global security, but critics say that argument sounds familiar.

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<v Speaker 1>More than two decades ago, another Australian prime minister used

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<v Speaker 1>almost identical arguments to justify joining Australia's wars in Afghanistan

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<v Speaker 1>and Iraq. Back then, Alberanzi himself warned those decisions would

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<v Speaker 1>redefine Australia as a willing backer of US militarism, no

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<v Speaker 1>matter whether it's in the national interest or not. Today

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<v Speaker 1>Political editor at Craikey Burnet Keane and why he believes

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<v Speaker 1>the Prime Minister has undergone a remarkable transformation and what

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<v Speaker 1>it means for Australia as the conflict grows. It's Saturday,

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<v Speaker 1>March seven. Bernard, great to have you on seven AM.

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<v Speaker 1>You wrote this week that Anthony Albernezi's transformation into Deputy

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<v Speaker 1>Sheriff John Howard is complete. What did you mean by that?

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<v Speaker 2>People with I guess longer memories will recall that John

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<v Speaker 2>Howard half accepted half struggled with the suggestion that he

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<v Speaker 2>might have been the Deputy Sheriff of the United States

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<v Speaker 2>both before the George W. Bush presidency and the Afghan

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<v Speaker 2>and Iraq ventures and afterwards.

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<v Speaker 3>And if terrorists ever get their hands on weapons of

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<v Speaker 3>mass destruction, that will, in my very passionate belief and argument,

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<v Speaker 3>constitute a direct, undeniable and lethal threat to Australia and

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<v Speaker 3>its people.

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<v Speaker 2>The suggestion was that he was so loyal to the

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<v Speaker 2>United States that effectively Australia was an agent of the

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<v Speaker 2>United States its foreign policy and military policy in this region.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's hard to see much of a difference between

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<v Speaker 2>John Howard and Anthony Albanezi in that regard.

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<v Speaker 4>I want to see the possibility of Iran getting a

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<v Speaker 4>nuclear weapon removed once and for all, and I also

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<v Speaker 4>want to see a removal of the ongoing threat that

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<v Speaker 4>has been there for such a long period of time.

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<v Speaker 4>I've Iran endangering peace and security and stability, not just

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<v Speaker 4>in its own region, but here in Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, Australia is much more so than it was

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<v Speaker 2>under John Howard a base for US military activities aimed

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<v Speaker 2>at China. We're a supply dump for US military supplies

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<v Speaker 2>for all. With China, we're becoming a submarine base for them.

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<v Speaker 2>We spend a lot of money building up as Tinder

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<v Speaker 2>Northern Territory to be a B fifty two bomber base.

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<v Speaker 2>We have training for marines here. We've become even far

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<v Speaker 2>more integrated into the US military machine than under John Howard,

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<v Speaker 2>and with the principal goal of fighting a war against

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<v Speaker 2>a key power in our own region, which really does

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<v Speaker 2>make us much more of a deputy sheriff I think

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<v Speaker 2>now than under John Howard. Even if the kinds of

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<v Speaker 2>retoric and rationale that we're seeing from Anthony Alberizia, I

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<v Speaker 2>guess a kind of a poor photo copy of what

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<v Speaker 2>we heard from John Howard. Around Iraq, there was a

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<v Speaker 2>pretense back during the lead up to the Iraq War

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<v Speaker 2>that international law mattered.

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<v Speaker 1>As a quaint nation.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we're all agreed that now, except for the Albanezi

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<v Speaker 2>government itself, we're all agreed in the opposition agrees international

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<v Speaker 2>law and the so called rules based international la is

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<v Speaker 2>a thing of the past.

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<v Speaker 5>For primer, mister Karney, you've said that Canada will not

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<v Speaker 5>participate in US military action in Iran, So can you defineh.

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<v Speaker 2>Point is there's a failure of imagination going on right now,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're seeing it pretty sh We contrasted with Mark

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<v Speaker 2>Carney being here In Anthony Albanese's response, Mark Carney, Canadian

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<v Speaker 2>Prime minist has been very clear that the world has changed.

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<v Speaker 2>The international rules based order is no more. International law

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<v Speaker 2>has been jumped, and you know we've got to adjust

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<v Speaker 2>to that.

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<v Speaker 6>And now you know, more uncertain, more divided world. Canada

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<v Speaker 6>and Australia our middle powers charting on our own course

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<v Speaker 6>with confidence, ambition and partnership.

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<v Speaker 1>So why was Anthony Albanezi so quick to get behind

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<v Speaker 1>America's strukes this week, given that the there is a

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<v Speaker 1>general consensus that it breaches international law. Why did he

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<v Speaker 1>come out so strong when other leaders, like some of

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<v Speaker 1>the Europeans and Kiss Darma took a more measured approach.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that Anthony Alberneze's strategy with Trump is keep

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<v Speaker 2>your head down, don't say anything that might upset the

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<v Speaker 2>mad King in Washington. Kiss Armer obviously been reluctant to

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<v Speaker 2>support the venture, refused permission for UK military basis to

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<v Speaker 2>be an air basis to be used that earned him

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<v Speaker 2>a rebuke. Trump's been teeing off on the Spanish government

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<v Speaker 2>for very openly criticizing and again refusing to allow Spanish

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<v Speaker 2>resources to be used in the conflict. Anthony Albanezi seems

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<v Speaker 2>to be absolutely terrified of the idea that Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 2>might say something bad about him, and therefore Anthony Alberaneesi

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<v Speaker 2>preemptively almost leaps to do whatever Donald Trump really would like. Plus,

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<v Speaker 2>we've got a media environment which is very pro us,

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<v Speaker 2>particularly led by News Corp, which is an American corporation,

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<v Speaker 2>and Albanese of course would prefer not to be criticized

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<v Speaker 2>by the media for not being sufficiently pro us. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>he's spent a lot of last year being sort of

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<v Speaker 2>criticized by the media for not being sufficiently basically groveling

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<v Speaker 2>to Trump. And I'm sure that falls part of his

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<v Speaker 2>political calculations about how quickly and how high he should

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<v Speaker 2>jump when the Americans say jump.

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<v Speaker 1>If we delve into the midst of time, burn it

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<v Speaker 1>and go back to the year two thousand and three,

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<v Speaker 1>a younger Anthony Albanezer had a very different perspective on

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<v Speaker 1>our involvement in the Iraq or, saying it was an

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<v Speaker 1>unjust war with no un backing what's changed in that

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<v Speaker 1>time to the way he now responds to conflicts like

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<v Speaker 1>this in twenty twenty six.

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<v Speaker 2>Anthony Obernize is the one who can answer that question.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's a kind of epistemological question here. I think,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, did Anthony Albaneze actually believe that when he

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<v Speaker 2>said it in two thousand and three and have his

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<v Speaker 2>views changed or did he never believe it? And he

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<v Speaker 2>was articulating that as a you know, as a political

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<v Speaker 2>statement which is intended to strengthen his political position. There

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<v Speaker 2>are people who are saying, look, Anthony abenez has always been,

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<v Speaker 2>always been about Anthony Albanezi, and his statements have always

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<v Speaker 2>been in a sense performative. Well, that's true. Obviously, it's

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<v Speaker 2>very cynical. I'd like to think that all politicians, even

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<v Speaker 2>you know, even the ones that I have very little

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<v Speaker 2>time for, actually have some sense of some guiding value.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, it is a pretty stark contrast between

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<v Speaker 2>the anti Albanezi of two thousand and three downs in

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<v Speaker 2>US militarism and the anti Albanze of twenty twenty six.

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<v Speaker 1>If we look at the political calculation here, that the

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<v Speaker 1>domestic political calculation here, Bernard is the PM likely to

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<v Speaker 1>regret going all in on this war if the war

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<v Speaker 1>itself continues to drag prices up and affect our cost

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<v Speaker 1>of living.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously, the longer the war goes on, the more likely

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<v Speaker 2>we are to get a significant and prolonged oil price

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<v Speaker 2>spike and a gas price spike in its wake. That

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<v Speaker 2>is going to have ramifications. But if people can see

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<v Speaker 2>that it's primarily caused by a war, they're probably less

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<v Speaker 2>likely to blame Antony Albanesi, even though he supports that war.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that it will be another breck in one

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<v Speaker 2>kind of war, which is the perception that Antoni Albanese

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<v Speaker 2>is very reflexively pro American and does not articulate what

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<v Speaker 2>is I think a widespread view of revulsion Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 2>that is abroad in the Australian electric We saw that

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<v Speaker 2>since last May in the election result, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>if Alberanezi finds himself too a drift of popular sentiment

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<v Speaker 2>in regard to something that is as closely associated with

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<v Speaker 2>Trump as this Iranian venture, then I think there'll be

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<v Speaker 2>some sort of collateral damage.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up. The scathing review, the liberals didn't want you

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<v Speaker 1>to see burden in a classic example of the streisand effect.

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<v Speaker 1>The other big political news of the week was the

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<v Speaker 1>Liberal Party election review. They tried to keep it under

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<v Speaker 1>wraps because of a cranky Peter Dutton. That only increased

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<v Speaker 1>the attention to it, and this week the whole thing

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<v Speaker 1>was leaked. What did it say that was so bad?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it was pretty critical of Peter Dutton, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>speaking of them, who really has much sympathy for Peter Dutton.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was actually pretty harsh on Dutton. Observation

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<v Speaker 2>that the review team made was which Nick mentioned of

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<v Speaker 2>Prue Gowd made the observation that no one who contributed

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<v Speaker 2>to the review was prepared to be self critical, which

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<v Speaker 2>is pretty funny. I said, every everyone was happy to

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<v Speaker 2>criticize everyone else. No one engaged in any sort of

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<v Speaker 2>reflection on their own on their own performance.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that Spider Man meme where you know half doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>spider matter? Or pointing at each other and blaming each.

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<v Speaker 2>Other exactly, Yeah, they're all pointing at each other saying, look,

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<v Speaker 2>that's where your big problem is. I think that it

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<v Speaker 2>had touched on a couple of things that I think

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<v Speaker 2>are really problematic for the Liberals. Obviously, one is quote

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<v Speaker 2>unquote the women problem. It came back to that issue

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<v Speaker 2>several times and made the point that, look, Liberal's been

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<v Speaker 2>talking about this issue for a long time, no one's

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<v Speaker 2>ever done a deep dive on how they can actually

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<v Speaker 2>fix it. Angus Taylor, of course knifed the first female

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<v Speaker 2>leader of the Liberal.

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<v Speaker 1>Party, so not a great start.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not probably not in a strong position to be

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<v Speaker 2>leading the charge on a greater female representation. It talked

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<v Speaker 2>about the age gap and the fact that structurally, systematically

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Party is an old person's and Angus Taylor

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<v Speaker 2>coming out so strongly against any sort of tax reform

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<v Speaker 2>that might benefit younger generations at the expense of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>older asset owners people like me probably said another signal

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<v Speaker 2>along those lines. And of course the issued with migrant communities,

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<v Speaker 2>which is really highly relevant given Taylor's almost made immigration.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, he said the immigration is going to be

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<v Speaker 2>one of his big issues. He's saying that there's too

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<v Speaker 2>many migrants coming and they're not good enough, which is

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<v Speaker 2>not the kind of signal that is going to win

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<v Speaker 2>back migrant communities. You know, who's shown over a course

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<v Speaker 2>of a couple of elections that they're not overly happy

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<v Speaker 2>with the Liberal Party.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean you mentioned the report was very hash on

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<v Speaker 1>Petere Dutton. He's even threatened to sue defamation. What did

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<v Speaker 1>it say about him specifically that irked him so much.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was kind of the focus on his

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<v Speaker 2>personal characteristics that I think really upset.

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<v Speaker 1>Him, sort of character assessment stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it talked about him. The original version talked about

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<v Speaker 2>him as being grim and introverted, not characteristics you want

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<v Speaker 2>in an alternative prime minister. That was taken out. But

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<v Speaker 2>it also talks about, you know, women not liking Dutton,

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<v Speaker 2>Dunton not appealing to female voters, which he took as

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<v Speaker 2>a kind of a reference to the fact that has

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<v Speaker 2>a quite distinctive appearance. Whether the review is intended that

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<v Speaker 2>or not, I don't know, but I guess if I'd

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<v Speaker 2>been described similar ways, I might think, well, geez, she's

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<v Speaker 2>having a crack the way it looks not to flash.

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<v Speaker 2>But the overall tone of the comments about Dutton kind

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<v Speaker 2>of suggest that he was a bit of a loner.

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<v Speaker 2>He didn't trust anyone, he was a bit paranoid, and

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<v Speaker 2>he concentrated power in his own hands and as a result,

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<v Speaker 2>everything got stuffed upe. I think there are elements of

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<v Speaker 2>that that are true. But the idea that Dutton came in,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, almost like the mini Trump, that he was

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<v Speaker 2>portrayed as you know, somewhat inaccurately and somehow took over

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<v Speaker 2>the party and look took it off in directions it

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't have gone. And you know, I did all these

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<v Speaker 2>crazy things that you don't do in normal campaigns. I

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<v Speaker 2>think that is a little unfair. I think that overly

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<v Speaker 2>focusing on either Dutton's appeal or the way Dutton did

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<v Speaker 2>things risks kind of shifting the responsibility away from the

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<v Speaker 2>people who allowed that to happen, which includes his parliamentary colleagues.

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<v Speaker 1>And what did the review actually say about the current leadership?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you spoke about migrant communities and Angus Taylor's

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<v Speaker 1>immigration agenda. What did the report say about Jane Hume

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<v Speaker 1>and Angus Taylor?

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<v Speaker 2>Doesn't talk about Angus Taylor in person at all, doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>name him. It reflects rather critically on the decision that

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<v Speaker 2>was made in the budget lock up last year to

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<v Speaker 2>oppose the labor's tax cuts, which obviously Taylor was part of.

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<v Speaker 2>There's still a bit of mystery about whether you know

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<v Speaker 2>who drove that, whether it was Dutton and how much

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<v Speaker 2>Taylor requiesced. Jane Hume, on the other hand, is mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned very critically for her extraordinary capacity to alienate migrant

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<v Speaker 2>communities and particularly Chinese community, with a throwaway reference to

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<v Speaker 2>Chinese spies.

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<v Speaker 5>You don't need to go out that far on the

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<v Speaker 5>polling Booth's Claire. There might be Chinese spies that are

0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.240
<v Speaker 5>hanging out for you, but for us, there's dozens, thousands,

0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:21.720
<v Speaker 5>hundreds of young people that are out there handing out

0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:22.480
<v Speaker 5>how to vote cuts.

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<v Speaker 2>Imagine being the labor operatives. He saw that during the campaign.

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<v Speaker 2>They must have just thought new beauty.

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<v Speaker 5>That's what the newspapers are saying. I think they're getting it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think they're getting a bit desperate. It's really interesting

0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:37.360
<v Speaker 2>to read the report about the issue of migrant communities

0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:38.760
<v Speaker 2>and the fact that the Liberals are kind of a

0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.560
<v Speaker 2>bit performative about it. It's go and have a photo op.

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<v Speaker 2>And there are people amongst the candidates who lost, there

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<v Speaker 2>are people saying, you know, we've actually got to really

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<v Speaker 2>change our mindset about migrant communities. Amelia Hamer, who lost

0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.880
<v Speaker 2>narrowly lost Cuon she made an absolutely fascinating observation that

0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.000
<v Speaker 2>it's not like the nineteen seventies. She made the point

0:13:58.040 --> 0:13:59.560
<v Speaker 2>little people come here, but they don't set for their

0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:03.080
<v Speaker 2>ties with their home country anymore. They go back and forth.

0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.880
<v Speaker 2>They see themselves as being the product of two countries

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<v Speaker 2>and that's really odds with the kind of hardline if

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<v Speaker 2>you don't like it, to leave it kind of mentality

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<v Speaker 2>of the right.

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<v Speaker 1>And finally, Bernard, as you mentioned, the report noted that

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<v Speaker 1>past election reviews have identified some of these recurring issues,

0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.280
<v Speaker 1>like their problem with women, but the recommendations have been

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<v Speaker 1>largely ignored. Will this time be any different and what

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<v Speaker 1>lessons need to be learned most urgently by the Liberal Party?

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<v Speaker 2>The review is more interested in the structure and in

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<v Speaker 2>how they sold policies and who was doing that. So

0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.000
<v Speaker 2>it's trying to make much more concrete recommendations and one

0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.200
<v Speaker 2>of those is much more engagement with migrant communities and

0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.400
<v Speaker 2>young people. And one of the things that observed was

0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.320
<v Speaker 2>there's very few women actually within the leadership of the

0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.360
<v Speaker 2>Liberals Secretariat or its campaign HQ, and that's got to

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<v Speaker 2>be remedied. So there was a focus on more doable

0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.720
<v Speaker 2>recommendations if you like, but the fact that they we're

0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:05.000
<v Speaker 2>so key to bury. It really suggests that despite the

0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.000
<v Speaker 2>effort to actually make them more implementable, they suffer the

0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:13.120
<v Speaker 2>same fate as previous recommendations, and obviously labor will be

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<v Speaker 2>hoping that no, they don't keep the memo this time

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<v Speaker 2>and just keep on making the same sort of mistakes

0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:19.840
<v Speaker 2>and alienating the same sort of communities.

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<v Speaker 1>Bernard, thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>My pleasure.

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<v Speaker 1>Seven AM is a daily show from Solstice Media. It's

0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:48.960
<v Speaker 1>made by Atticus Bastow, Ariel Richards, Chris Dangate, Crystal Color,

0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Nicole Johnston, Travis Evans, Zolnvecho and me Daniel James. Our

0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.680
<v Speaker 1>theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of

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0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:04.080
<v Speaker 1>great weekend.