1 00:00:04,170 --> 00:00:06,990 Adam Lang: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Adam 2 00:00:06,990 --> 00:00:09,930 Adam Lang: Lang. With the last of the big banks reporting their 3 00:00:09,930 --> 00:00:12,810 Adam Lang: full year results this week, we now have a pretty 4 00:00:12,810 --> 00:00:16,260 Adam Lang: clear picture of how the sector is traveling. Combined headline 5 00:00:16,260 --> 00:00:20,790 Adam Lang: cash earnings are up 7% to 28. 5 billion, but 6 00:00:20,790 --> 00:00:24,720 Adam Lang: the solid result comes with a warning about inflation, interest 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,950 Adam Lang: rate rises, and the economic outlook ahead. Doug Nixon is 8 00:00:28,950 --> 00:00:32,970 Adam Lang: the Oceania banking and capital markets leader at EY. Doug, 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:34,949 Adam Lang: it's great to be with you. Welcome to Fear and Greed. 10 00:00:35,550 --> 00:00:37,500 Doug Nixon: Adam, great to be speaking with you today. 11 00:00:38,130 --> 00:00:41,250 Adam Lang: Now, overall, how would you rate the health of the 12 00:00:41,250 --> 00:00:42,000 Adam Lang: big banks? 13 00:00:43,050 --> 00:00:47,070 Doug Nixon: Look, we are entering into a period of volatility with 14 00:00:47,340 --> 00:00:50,640 Doug Nixon: a very stable foundation in our financial system, thanks to 15 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,420 Doug Nixon: some careful management post financial crisis, as well as some 16 00:00:54,420 --> 00:00:58,500 Doug Nixon: very careful management through Covid. You're right, the major banks 17 00:00:58,500 --> 00:01:01,110 Doug Nixon: have reported we've got a solid set of results. There 18 00:01:01,110 --> 00:01:04,679 Doug Nixon: is definitely tailwinds in the system from this rate cycle 19 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,370 Doug Nixon: increase, but as you rightly point out, a very uncertain 20 00:01:08,370 --> 00:01:12,060 Doug Nixon: period ahead. Combined cash earnings of 28. 5 billion, up 21 00:01:12,060 --> 00:01:16,709 Doug Nixon: 7%. Interest rate margin down 11 basis points. But that 22 00:01:16,709 --> 00:01:18,750 Doug Nixon: really is a tale of two halves. We saw that 23 00:01:18,750 --> 00:01:22,410 Doug Nixon: trend upwards in the second half, a number of institutions 24 00:01:22,770 --> 00:01:27,089 Doug Nixon: credit impairments down by 680 million and average return on equity 25 00:01:27,150 --> 00:01:31,980 Doug Nixon: of 10.6%, up about 65 basis points. But as you 26 00:01:31,980 --> 00:01:35,130 Doug Nixon: rightly say, Adam, the results show we're actually at a 27 00:01:35,220 --> 00:01:39,150 Doug Nixon: really interesting inflection point in the system. This rapid increase 28 00:01:39,150 --> 00:01:42,750 Doug Nixon: in cash rates has provided that boost to NIM, but 29 00:01:42,750 --> 00:01:45,630 Doug Nixon: the full impact of inflation and rates have not yet 30 00:01:45,630 --> 00:01:49,890 Doug Nixon: made their way through the financial system. Really interesting is 31 00:01:49,890 --> 00:01:53,880 Doug Nixon: the mixed results on operational expenses. We've definitely seen a 32 00:01:53,940 --> 00:01:57,960 Doug Nixon: laser focus on tight management of operational expenses across the 33 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:03,210 Doug Nixon: industry, but a very, very constrained labor market. Inflationary pressures 34 00:02:03,210 --> 00:02:06,210 Doug Nixon: have meant that expenses have actually increased year on year 35 00:02:06,210 --> 00:02:09,510 Doug Nixon: for across the sector. A solid set of results with 36 00:02:09,510 --> 00:02:12,480 Doug Nixon: some tailwinds, but the industry faces into a very volatile 37 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:13,050 Doug Nixon: period ahead. 38 00:02:14,820 --> 00:02:18,300 Adam Lang: Just to call out NIM, that's net interest margin, right? 39 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:19,769 Doug Nixon: Yes, that's correct. 40 00:02:19,830 --> 00:02:24,270 Adam Lang: Yeah. Amongst that, you're getting a sense that changing topography 41 00:02:24,300 --> 00:02:27,330 Adam Lang: interest rates are changing, but the skill level is having 42 00:02:27,330 --> 00:02:30,180 Adam Lang: to change and the application of effort to effectively run 43 00:02:30,180 --> 00:02:31,320 Adam Lang: the banks, would that be right? 44 00:02:31,980 --> 00:02:36,180 Doug Nixon: It's much tighter management now and leading into this next 45 00:02:36,180 --> 00:02:39,870 Doug Nixon: period. As you said earlier this week, we're entering into 46 00:02:39,870 --> 00:02:44,310 Doug Nixon: a really interesting period where you're having decreasing house prices, 47 00:02:44,490 --> 00:02:50,550 Doug Nixon: increasing interest rates, and very careful management required across the 48 00:02:50,550 --> 00:02:55,470 Doug Nixon: industry to manage, for example, provisions and credit losses through 49 00:02:55,470 --> 00:02:58,410 Doug Nixon: a period of stress in the system. But also what's 50 00:02:58,410 --> 00:03:01,380 Doug Nixon: happening in the background. These forces are meaning that credit 51 00:03:01,380 --> 00:03:04,050 Doug Nixon: markets are becoming more constrained, they're not growing in the 52 00:03:04,050 --> 00:03:07,500 Doug Nixon: way that they used to, which will introduce competitive pressure 53 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:10,260 Doug Nixon: into the system. We're already starting to see that, for 54 00:03:10,260 --> 00:03:13,980 Doug Nixon: example, in deposit markets where there's really competitive rates starting 55 00:03:13,980 --> 00:03:16,200 Doug Nixon: to emerge for household deposits. 56 00:03:17,190 --> 00:03:19,350 Adam Lang: It's a really interesting time, and as you say, that 57 00:03:19,350 --> 00:03:24,060 Adam Lang: competitive topography getting cash and loaning cash, maybe there's some 58 00:03:24,060 --> 00:03:26,520 Adam Lang: things out there for consumers if they hunt around. There 59 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:28,139 Adam Lang: are still good deals to be found. 60 00:03:29,340 --> 00:03:33,780 Doug Nixon: Certainly in deposit markets, now, it's early, but we've certainly 61 00:03:33,780 --> 00:03:37,200 Doug Nixon: seen are some interesting changes happening in that market. You 62 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,980 Doug Nixon: are seeing deposit rates of above 4% by some institutions, 63 00:03:40,980 --> 00:03:43,920 Doug Nixon: which we haven't seen for a very, very long time. 64 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:49,620 Doug Nixon: I think we'll also start to see more competition in 65 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:54,630 Doug Nixon: interest rates on credit products, as well as institutions chase 66 00:03:54,660 --> 00:03:59,850 Doug Nixon: market share. I think my suspicion is that households are 67 00:03:59,850 --> 00:04:03,180 Doug Nixon: going to become much more sensitive to differences in interest 68 00:04:03,180 --> 00:04:07,050 Doug Nixon: rates as home budgets become more constrained. People are going 69 00:04:07,050 --> 00:04:08,970 Doug Nixon: to be shopping around to make their money go further. 70 00:04:08,970 --> 00:04:12,750 Adam Lang: That makes sense. Look, cash is king, right? But just 71 00:04:12,750 --> 00:04:15,570 Adam Lang: as background, why do we talk about cash earnings? 72 00:04:16,710 --> 00:04:20,909 Doug Nixon: This is essentially, and you mentioned NIM before, the difference 73 00:04:20,910 --> 00:04:25,260 Doug Nixon: that institutions do make between the amount that they borrow 74 00:04:25,260 --> 00:04:28,380 Doug Nixon: and the amount that they lend out at, and financial 75 00:04:28,380 --> 00:04:31,950 Doug Nixon: institutions have to go to market to source funds to 76 00:04:31,950 --> 00:04:35,220 Doug Nixon: fund their portfolios. They do that typically in a couple 77 00:04:35,220 --> 00:04:40,440 Doug Nixon: of fashions. One is funding from households, so retail deposits, 78 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,839 Doug Nixon: term deposits, all the products that you and I see 79 00:04:43,140 --> 00:04:46,290 Doug Nixon: when we place our money in a financial institution. They 80 00:04:46,290 --> 00:04:49,920 Doug Nixon: also go to wholesale markets. The reason why there's so 81 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,520 Doug Nixon: much talk about this at the moment is that all of 82 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,550 Doug Nixon: the funding sources are getting more expensive as we're seeing 83 00:04:56,550 --> 00:05:01,110 Doug Nixon: fiscal policy change. Even the wholesale funding markets have been 84 00:05:01,110 --> 00:05:05,100 Doug Nixon: becoming more expensive for financial institutions to source funds off. 85 00:05:05,220 --> 00:05:07,770 Doug Nixon: We've particularly seen that in the last couple of months as 86 00:05:07,770 --> 00:05:09,510 Doug Nixon: a few of the major banks have gone to wholesale 87 00:05:09,510 --> 00:05:10,770 Doug Nixon: markets to source funds. 88 00:05:11,010 --> 00:05:13,050 Adam Lang: Stay with me, Doug, We'll be back in a minute. 89 00:05:18,990 --> 00:05:22,710 Adam Lang: I'm speaking to Doug Nixon, Oceania banking and capital markets 90 00:05:22,710 --> 00:05:28,350 Adam Lang: leader at EY. If we were looking at the data dashboard of the banks, what 91 00:05:28,350 --> 00:05:32,609 Adam Lang: are the measures saying about credit impairment charges, return on 92 00:05:32,610 --> 00:05:35,580 Adam Lang: equity, the average net interest margins? What are some of 93 00:05:35,580 --> 00:05:38,220 Adam Lang: the key takeouts that you are seeing this time around? 94 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,400 Doug Nixon: Yeah, Adam, it's a great question. We've talked a little 95 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,070 Doug Nixon: bit about NIM and in the second half you have to 96 00:05:44,070 --> 00:05:48,210 Doug Nixon: dive into the results and split apart most institutions report 97 00:05:48,210 --> 00:05:51,330 Doug Nixon: on a half by half basis. You really have to look 98 00:05:51,330 --> 00:05:54,089 Doug Nixon: at the second half, because overall net interest margin is 99 00:05:54,089 --> 00:05:57,210 Doug Nixon: down this year, 11 basis points. But you're seeing an 100 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,510 Doug Nixon: uptick just the early start of the upward trend in 101 00:06:00,510 --> 00:06:03,570 Doug Nixon: the second half. Overall, it's still down year on year, 102 00:06:03,900 --> 00:06:06,120 Doug Nixon: and even if in the second half numbers, it's not 103 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,760 Doug Nixon: back to where it was, but that's starting to creep 104 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,390 Doug Nixon: up. That's the benefit of rising interest rates and essentially 105 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,169 Doug Nixon: the short term effects of the existing pool of funds 106 00:06:16,170 --> 00:06:18,900 Doug Nixon: that the bank have versus what they're lending out at. 107 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,580 Doug Nixon: The credit impairments are also down. We're not really seeing 108 00:06:24,150 --> 00:06:26,729 Doug Nixon: defaults make their way through the system yet as a 109 00:06:26,730 --> 00:06:31,860 Doug Nixon: result of house prices rising or businesses getting constrained in 110 00:06:31,860 --> 00:06:36,479 Doug Nixon: this environment. Most institutions in their commentary talked about that 111 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,830 Doug Nixon: effect coming into play 12 to 24 months from now. 112 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,440 Doug Nixon: We might see a bit over this financial, this coming 113 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,370 Doug Nixon: financial year or the financial year that we're in FY23 really 114 00:06:47,370 --> 00:06:53,339 Doug Nixon: manifesting in FY24. It really is an inflection point. We're 115 00:06:53,339 --> 00:06:55,979 Doug Nixon: seeing these kind of early effects of this change that's 116 00:06:55,980 --> 00:06:58,920 Doug Nixon: happening in the economy, but we haven't seen the full 117 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,400 Doug Nixon: impact of it, I. e. dampening of the labor market, 118 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,990 Doug Nixon: compressing of house price, really trying to slay the inflation 119 00:07:06,990 --> 00:07:10,710 Doug Nixon: dragon. We haven't seen the effects of that manifest into 120 00:07:10,710 --> 00:07:11,670 Doug Nixon: the financials yet. 121 00:07:12,780 --> 00:07:16,559 Adam Lang: Slaying the inflation dragon is a great statement and a 122 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:17,610 Adam Lang: great quest, isn't it? 123 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,650 Doug Nixon: It is, and in my opinion the right one. That's 124 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,890 Doug Nixon: essentially what we're chasing with this interest rate policy. 125 00:07:26,550 --> 00:07:29,880 Adam Lang: So important. We seem to see data coming through more 126 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,910 Adam Lang: quickly now. What are the banks seeing in terms of 127 00:07:32,910 --> 00:07:36,420 Adam Lang: that mortgage stress for sale bad debts? You mentioned that 128 00:07:36,420 --> 00:07:38,880 Adam Lang: this was a game of two halves in the last 129 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,550 Adam Lang: year and still wanted to watch in the period ahead. 130 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,350 Adam Lang: Are there any early indications? 131 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,489 Doug Nixon: There's two things you typically look at when you are 132 00:07:47,550 --> 00:07:49,920 Doug Nixon: trying to get a sense of this across the industry. 133 00:07:50,010 --> 00:07:54,300 Doug Nixon: One, you mentioned credit impairments down year on year. The 134 00:07:54,300 --> 00:07:58,500 Doug Nixon: other one is the provisions that the financial institutions put 135 00:07:58,500 --> 00:08:01,290 Doug Nixon: in place and the credit provisions they put in place. That is been 136 00:08:01,830 --> 00:08:06,900 Doug Nixon: a very fascinating area to watch. We've got this layover 137 00:08:06,900 --> 00:08:10,740 Doug Nixon: effect from Covid where the industry put in place actually 138 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:15,060 Doug Nixon: quite high credit provisions and basically the expectations of defaults 139 00:08:15,060 --> 00:08:19,350 Doug Nixon: rather than the defaults manifesting themselves in anticipation of the 140 00:08:19,350 --> 00:08:23,100 Doug Nixon: economic downturn that never really happened in Covid. What the 141 00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:27,420 Doug Nixon: industry has been very effective in doing is using those 142 00:08:27,420 --> 00:08:32,370 Doug Nixon: provisions and carrying them over in anticipation of the defaults 143 00:08:32,370 --> 00:08:35,760 Doug Nixon: that are likely to manifest in market. I will, as 144 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,250 Doug Nixon: a side note... I'm a big believer in the financial 145 00:08:38,250 --> 00:08:42,000 Doug Nixon: system and being a heartbeat for this economy and every 146 00:08:42,179 --> 00:08:46,410 Doug Nixon: economy around the world. It is very reassuring that we 147 00:08:46,410 --> 00:08:50,190 Doug Nixon: have a very strong financial system entering into this period 148 00:08:50,220 --> 00:08:53,100 Doug Nixon: of volatility, not only in terms of provisions, but also 149 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:55,110 Doug Nixon: in terms of the work that has been done to 150 00:08:55,110 --> 00:08:59,730 Doug Nixon: increase regulatory capital. Essentially the safety buffer that these institutions 151 00:08:59,730 --> 00:09:03,120 Doug Nixon: have in place in the event of an economic downturn 152 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,050 Doug Nixon: or a shock happening to the financial system because it 153 00:09:07,050 --> 00:09:09,449 Doug Nixon: means that the banks have more options that they can 154 00:09:09,450 --> 00:09:12,959 Doug Nixon: deploy to help individual households and the economy as a 155 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,319 Doug Nixon: whole as we enter into this period. That is everything 156 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,950 Doug Nixon: from being more lenient in their approach to credit defaults 157 00:09:19,950 --> 00:09:24,959 Doug Nixon: with individual consumers, renegotiating terms, stretching out repayments to keep 158 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,620 Doug Nixon: the monthly repayment down, all the way to being more 159 00:09:28,620 --> 00:09:33,420 Doug Nixon: tolerant in this market when that volatility starts to manifest. 160 00:09:33,630 --> 00:09:36,330 Adam Lang: It's such a great tip. Whichever bank or banks you 161 00:09:36,330 --> 00:09:39,150 Adam Lang: deal with, look to them as your partners and experts 162 00:09:39,150 --> 00:09:41,819 Adam Lang: in this. If you've got a challenge, talk to them, right? 163 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,559 Doug Nixon: They have teams that are in place to do exactly 164 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:51,689 Doug Nixon: this. They would much rather see people retain their home 165 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:56,099 Doug Nixon: and rework out payment terms than have to go into a default 166 00:09:56,100 --> 00:09:58,920 Doug Nixon: situation. It's an unpleasant experience for everyone involved. 167 00:10:00,210 --> 00:10:04,170 Adam Lang: Costs continue to be a challenge, and they're working hard 168 00:10:04,170 --> 00:10:07,559 Adam Lang: to decrease the cost base. That's not easy though, because 169 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,870 Adam Lang: you've got, as you mentioned before, some of the pressures, 170 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:15,630 Adam Lang: price rises, labor market shortages, branches, legacy systems, demand for talent, 171 00:10:15,809 --> 00:10:19,559 Adam Lang: regulatory impositions, cybersecurity, and I'm sure there are more, but 172 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,560 Adam Lang: already that's a big list. What are you seeing ahead? 173 00:10:23,970 --> 00:10:29,130 Doug Nixon: Yeah, it's a very, very good question, Adam. We definitely 174 00:10:29,130 --> 00:10:33,270 Doug Nixon: saw an increase in operating expenses. It was a bit 175 00:10:33,270 --> 00:10:36,150 Doug Nixon: mixed across the market, but the general trend was an 176 00:10:36,150 --> 00:10:39,600 Doug Nixon: increase in operating expenses. The narrative that came out, which 177 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,660 Doug Nixon: I think, to me, makes a lot of sense, is 178 00:10:42,990 --> 00:10:46,229 Doug Nixon: increasing labor costs. We're in a very, very constrained labor 179 00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:51,420 Doug Nixon: market right now, and there have been some very public renegotiations 180 00:10:51,690 --> 00:10:55,020 Doug Nixon: of wages and agreements that have had to be put 181 00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:57,690 Doug Nixon: in place across the industry that have essentially had an 182 00:10:57,690 --> 00:11:00,179 Doug Nixon: inflation rate pressure for the banks on the cost of 183 00:11:00,179 --> 00:11:04,140 Doug Nixon: wages. The vacancy rate in the sector is also very high. 184 00:11:04,290 --> 00:11:06,120 Adam Lang: As in the employee vacancy rate? 185 00:11:06,179 --> 00:11:09,900 Doug Nixon: Yeah, that's right. That's right. They are searching for talent and 186 00:11:09,900 --> 00:11:12,329 Doug Nixon: it's a different sort of talent than they used to, 187 00:11:12,330 --> 00:11:15,540 Doug Nixon: as well. It's to get the institutions ready for the 188 00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:20,160 Doug Nixon: next generation of service offerings, for example. There is a 189 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:24,929 Doug Nixon: significant amount of spend that they need to execute on to remain competitive 190 00:11:24,929 --> 00:11:28,320 Doug Nixon: in the market to uplift digital capability, to be able 191 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,630 Doug Nixon: to decrease the amount of time it takes them to 192 00:11:30,630 --> 00:11:33,300 Doug Nixon: make decisions on the issuance of credit products in the 193 00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:37,050 Doug Nixon: market. You'll hear terms like productivity, and time to yes, 194 00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:40,290 Doug Nixon: in a lot of the earnings calls because essentially they're 195 00:11:40,290 --> 00:11:45,180 Doug Nixon: very big capital expenditures to streamline process, make the customer 196 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,809 Doug Nixon: interaction more seamless, or provide a better service to the 197 00:11:48,809 --> 00:11:52,859 Doug Nixon: customer via digital channels. All of these things are going 198 00:11:52,860 --> 00:11:56,580 Doug Nixon: to continue to push up costs for the financial institutions 199 00:11:56,580 --> 00:12:00,720 Doug Nixon: in the short to midterm. Really until the labor market 200 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:05,610 Doug Nixon: turns, I can't see that changing for any financial institution 201 00:12:05,610 --> 00:12:08,220 Doug Nixon: in the market. They need to spend to remain competitive 202 00:12:08,220 --> 00:12:11,640 Doug Nixon: and they are subject to labor forces of the broader economy. 203 00:12:12,030 --> 00:12:15,510 Adam Lang: There's such big institutions and it's still such a dynamic 204 00:12:15,510 --> 00:12:16,320 Adam Lang: space, isn't it? 205 00:12:16,530 --> 00:12:20,280 Doug Nixon: That's right. It's changed a lot as well. I mean, 206 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:25,530 Doug Nixon: the skills required 20 or 30 years ago in this space as 207 00:12:25,530 --> 00:12:29,370 Doug Nixon: opposed to today are vastly different. Much more demand on 208 00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:35,010 Doug Nixon: data analytics, data scientists, user access interface, UI design. You 209 00:12:35,550 --> 00:12:38,369 Doug Nixon: mentioned just very briefly, a very important topic at the 210 00:12:38,370 --> 00:12:42,300 Doug Nixon: moment, cyber skills are in very big demand across the 211 00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:43,440 Doug Nixon: market as well. 212 00:12:43,980 --> 00:12:46,500 Adam Lang: Well, competitive pressure is a good thing, right? In the 213 00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:48,600 Adam Lang: end, customers win. This has got to be good for 214 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:53,700 Adam Lang: all of us. Finally one for the investors. Now, the 215 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:56,640 Adam Lang: banks have had a good performance over the last year 216 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,290 Adam Lang: or so, but how do you think they've done on 217 00:12:58,290 --> 00:12:59,819 Adam Lang: their shares and dividends this year? 218 00:13:00,330 --> 00:13:03,990 Doug Nixon: I think it's been a good year for the industry 219 00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:06,840 Doug Nixon: as a whole. I won't comment on any one particular 220 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:11,880 Doug Nixon: financial institution, but we've seen positive trends across the industry 221 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:16,679 Doug Nixon: as a whole. I mentioned average ROE before actually increasing 222 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:22,020 Doug Nixon: quite substantially by 60, 65 basis points. I do think the 223 00:13:22,830 --> 00:13:27,030 Doug Nixon: broader market as a whole, there is some trepidation or 224 00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:30,690 Doug Nixon: nervousness about what lies ahead for the next 12 to 225 00:13:30,690 --> 00:13:36,000 Doug Nixon: 24 months. We just are in a very, very volatile period, which means 226 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,910 Doug Nixon: that predicting the future is a little bit harder now 227 00:13:38,910 --> 00:13:41,400 Doug Nixon: than it has been for a while. 228 00:13:42,390 --> 00:13:46,920 Adam Lang: Yeah. Well look, Doug, predictions are virtually impossible, but it 229 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,200 Adam Lang: is a complicated market, and you've really helped us to 230 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,960 Adam Lang: understand it today. Thank you very much for talking to 231 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:52,590 Adam Lang: Fear and Greed. 232 00:13:53,130 --> 00:13:55,410 Doug Nixon: Adam, it's been great to chat with you. Thank you 233 00:13:55,410 --> 00:13:55,979 Doug Nixon: for your time. 234 00:13:56,190 --> 00:13:59,939 Adam Lang: That was Doug Nixon, Oceania banking and capital markets leader 235 00:13:59,940 --> 00:14:03,059 Adam Lang: at EY. This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. 236 00:14:03,059 --> 00:14:05,400 Adam Lang: Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear 237 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,570 Adam Lang: and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Adam Lang. 238 00:14:09,630 --> 00:14:10,470 Adam Lang: Enjoy your day.