WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 30 April 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:00.600 Lately. 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:05.199 Welcome to the Late Pay. 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:07.680 Great to have your company. 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:11.120 I'm James Macpherson with Liz Storer and Joe Hildebrand coming 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:14.880 up tonight. The campaign endorsement Anthony Albanese did not want 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:18.360 turns out you really don't want everyone voting for you. 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.080 We'll explain why a little later. Plus when we look 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.440 at the papers. The Courier Mail has a front page 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:28.360 story tomorrow with new polling showing labor surging ahead, and 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:33.559 activist Noel Pearson reckons there's too much Indigenous cultural studies 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.320 in our school curriculum and it needs to be pared back. 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.559 We'll get to all of that a little later. But first, 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:43.000 I always thought we lived in a free country. I thought, 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.640 especially during an election campaign, we were free to talk 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:50.000 about matters of public policy. I thought we lived in 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.880 Australia rather than say, you know, China. But check out 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:57.560 what happened today outside of polling booth in the Victorian 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:02.040 electorate of Jagger Jagger, a Family First Senate candidate, was 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.640 told by an Australian Electoral Commission worker that she wasn't 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:09.760 allowed to advertise her policies because well, some people just 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:11.600 didn't like them. 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:13.640 I've had a few people who are quite upset. 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.800 I just want to speak to about what you're speaking 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:18.000 to them. 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:19.600 What about speaking about. 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.960 About late term abortions? Okay, you don't like that. It's 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:25.520 not my opinion. It's a horrible thing, though, and that's 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:26.399 why I want to stop it. 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:28.880 If I ask you, if you would like to speak 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.039 to everybody that your policies, you're more than welcome to. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.120 But just that point before now, if I can please. 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:34.440 Ask, can I. 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:37.800 Elsey every other of you? 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.120 I'm not allowed to mention abortion just for now. I've 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:42.840 had some compaignts and I just want to run it 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:43.320 up the cheam. 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.280 Okay, you wouldn't mind, thank you now. 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.600 That video went viral after it was posted online by 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:53.320 Adelaide law professor doctor Joanna Howe, and then doctor Howe 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.240 became a target of the Electoral Commissions penchant for censorship. 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:00.960 They posted a message on her Instagram age, I'll read 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.400 it for you. We're respectfully asking you to take the 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.840 video down from this person's p for this person's privacy. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.920 They're a hard working temporary officer doing her best to 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:15.839 fulfill her role in a complicated environment. Maybe someone needs 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.280 to tell the Australian Electoral Commission. It's really not that complicated. 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.880 Whether you're pro abortion or anti abortion, you have the 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.560 right to put forward your position, especially when you're standing 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:30.320 for public office. Rather than respectfully requesting the video be 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:34.200 taken down, perhaps the Electoral Commission should respectfully be thanking 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.280 doctor Johannah Howe for bringing it to their attention and 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:41.320 respectfully apologizing to the Family First candidate for getting in 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.880 the way of her communicating her policies as she's perfectly 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:46.560 entitled to do. 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:51.600 Liz indeed, well, this is an election interference, period, plain 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:57.000 and simple, which is the very antithesis of the AEC's remit. 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.040 They should have in fact apologized and said obviously, this 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.760 girl hasn't been trained properly. As someone who's worked in state, 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:07.359 federal and local governments for over eight years, that person 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.840 being me, I have seen all kinds of biffs on 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:14.960 polling booths, pre polling especially, it gets incredibly fiery, people 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:18.520 have massive arguments, but I have never once seen in 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:24.480 person or in the media an AEC representative telling a 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:29.359 candidate to shut up about their own policies. Oh, you're 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:34.440 making people uncomfortable, Well, good congratulations that means those people 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:35.560 still have a soul. 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:40.440 This year's a federal election issue. The other side of 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:41.600 this debate. 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:46.600 Forty pro abortion organizations have lobbied the federal government and 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:48.840 let them know that whoever wins. 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.320 Government this time round, they're. 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.200 Demanding that they fulfill all their demands. 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.040 But you get one pro. 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.600 Life voice, one person giving a voice to the voiceless, 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:03.160 one person sticking up for the almost round about. We 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:07.680 don't get exact numbers for obvious reasons, but approximately eighty 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:08.840 thousand babies a. 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.440 Year in Australia who are terminated. 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:14.280 Just one person, and all of a sudden, you've got 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.360 the AEC flying in the face of their own remit 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:21.200 to get this woman to shut up at all costs. 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.640 It's an absolute disgrace. They should have come out and 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:28.720 simply said sorry, we do acknowledge that this is the 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:33.080 very opposite of what AEC stands for, and our jobs 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:35.920 on pre polling booths and polling booths on the day 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.440 we apologize this person's now being retrained. 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.159 That was the only appropriate. 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:46.120 Response, and instead they've turned around after people have been 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.719 concerned about the freedom of speech happening at pre polling booths, 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:53.720 and then ask the pre eminent pro life voice in Australia, 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:58.440 doctor Joanna Howe, to help cover up what they did by. 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:02.080 Taking down their pos. Irony is dead. 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.440 It's it's completely unforgivable, Joe, I think. 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.440 Fair enough to say, you know, I don't reveal the 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.919 identity of the worker, who is obviously quite young. And 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:13.880 obviously all the people who work on these booths, they're 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:15.760 doing it just on a temporary basis, so they're not 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.200 people who work for AAS. 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.320 But they are trained not to tell candidates not to spruit. 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.000 Their lawful you were things. 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:25.240 I mean, look, obviously it's very it's very concerning if 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:28.240 that is in fact what is happening and that's been done. 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.000 But she did say, look, I just need to speak 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:31.960 to my supervisor. Would you mind just not doing it 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:33.960 for now till I can get some direction on this. 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:35.040 So I don't know if it's the end of the world, 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:36.960 and we don't. I don't do we know what decision 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.160 was ultimately made. I don't know if we do. But 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.560 but I think the real the real story here and 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.919 the real villains is not the AAC worker, but Jagga 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.800 Jagger is a seat based around sort of inner Melbourne, 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.480 around the sort of city of Durbin, which is very, 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.560 very heavily green tinged. I think they've probably already signed 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.559 their own treaty and they're always getting in, They're always 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.479 doing exciting new things with theirsh collection to make it 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.600 more sustainable. But so I suspect that there'd be a 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:10.279 lot of kind of vexatious complainants, very much to the 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.360 left of the political spectrum, who have made a boy 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:15.839 the sort of people who would say, sorry, this is 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:18.279 very triggering for me. So I think it's actually them 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:22.040 who the blame should be leveled at, rather than a 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.239 young worker, a young temporary worker who is just trying 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.320 to respond to this sort of avalanche of compliance. And 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.200 as I said, if you wouldn't mind just not doing 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:30.960 it for now, please. 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:35.000 Not talk about your policies. I mean, that's utterly that's 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:35.479 a joke. 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:38.520 Again. But if the final decision of the AE. 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.560 Worker honestly thought that was appropriate, then she must have 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.120 received no training whatsoever. 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:45.919 But she would have just received the complaint. 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.880 She wouldn't have known what the what the person had 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.479 been saying, God knows what these sort of these sort 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:54.120 of hysterical hypercarens were saying about what the. 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:57.680 And I reckon it must have been Hypercarens, because when 0:06:57.720 --> 0:06:59.880 you listen to the response of the family first can 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.680 this seems very She seemed very polite and pretty reasonable 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:05.720 considering she was being told to shut up about her 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:09.200 own policies. Indeed, so I thought she treated the AEC 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:13.720 worker with absolute politeness. So I struggle to believe that 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.080 any complaints about that can that would have been because 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:17.880 the candidate was being rude or aggressive. 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:22.360 Indeed, and hats off to Ray Rancy there in Victoria, 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:23.840 in the seat of Jagga Jagger. 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.600 You are in hater heartland. 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:31.800 Strength to your arm to Spain now where Spanish news 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.559 broadcasts are going to be police to ensure that men 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:40.000 and women on news programs get the same amount. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:40.760 Of talking time. 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.480 Yes, this is an actual law that has been passed 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.920 we read today. According to the law, new casts must 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:53.400 newscasts rather must convey an equal and non discriminatory image 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:56.440 of men and women. They are not permitted to promote 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:02.720 directly or indirectly situations of discrimination based on sex. The CIMAC, 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:07.200 which is their National Commission on Markets and Competition, will 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:11.160 review between eight hundred and one thousand and fifteen minute clips, 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.520 which will be reviewed by a consulting firm that has 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:18.080 been provided with one hundred and twenty one thousand euros 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.960 for both twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six. So 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:27.120 they're going to be monitoring Spanish news the two hundred 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:31.200 and fifty hours of broadcasting per year to ensure that 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.040 men haven't talked more than women, women haven't talked more 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.240 than men. I actually think this is not going to 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:43.240 work in women's favor when we're all reminded of just 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:48.480 last week on the ABC and Micas Sucker's Michael Sucker's 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.160 disgraceful treatment by the women there. 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.600 Michael Sooker, you say you're going to do it. We 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.319 know how many houses you've built while you were in 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.080 government in that area. It was a few thousand, but 0:08:59.120 --> 0:08:59.680 now it wasn't a. 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:02.439 Few thou Sorry, Sarah, I'll get my chance. You will 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:03.320 correct the record on that. 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:04.920 Let me just get I'm going to ask you one 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.400 more time, and everyone is listening to me, ask this question, 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.720 how many social and affordable houses will you build? 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:12.960 Well, we will fund social and for right. 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:13.320 That's it. 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:15.280 You're not I'm not getting an answer. You'll get an 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:16.040 answer out of me. 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:18.280 A minute. 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:20.880 We've done a hute shortage of housing around our country. 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.920 I'm pretty sure this is going to mean women in 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:28.319 Spain on news programs have to talk less and won't 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:29.679 get to talk more. 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:31.640 I find it incredibly funny. 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.040 What I find incredible is that you took over a 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.400 minute thirty for that introduction. I took only just over 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.280 two minutes to introduce the entire show plus a topic. 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:42.720 So I don't know. Maybe these laws could work the 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:43.200 other way. 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.520 Listen, that's what I mean. I think that's going to 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:46.120 be the outcome. 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:47.079 I'm very excited. 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.280 I can't wait for them to be introduced in Australia 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.119 so that Brodman Bishop will finally. 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:51.640 Let me speak. 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:56.760 The Spanish government are regarding this, if you allow men 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:59.920 to speak more than women on a news program as quote, 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:04.400 a very serious offense, and networks face fines of up 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:08.800 to two point six million Australian dollars if they violate 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:10.880 the laws. What's amazing to me is that you don't 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:14.160 need government to do this. We've got broadcasters in the 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:16.960 UK and then Australia who want to do it to themselves. 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.840 The BBC a few years ago set up a system 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.920 to keep track of which genders and which ethnicities were 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:29.559 represented in TV programs to make sure there was equity, 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.520 and SBS back when they reported that said, then I 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.959 quote this is from an SBS journalist. Surprisingly, there are 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:41.480 no rules on gender or ethnicity based diversity enforced in Australia. 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.320 So you've got SBS journalists being surprised that the government 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:50.600 aren't mandating certain quotas of different people being represented on television. 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.160 From a memory that would have wiped out about half 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:54.199 the SBS. 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:55.079 Board because. 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.000 They got a little bit of trouble for being white 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.160 of at a polar bear and a snowstorm. But he's 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.720 pretty I just I just find it very weird that 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.439 we are just sort of ticking boxes based on gender 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:10.080 or sex or digging into people's ethnic makeup. You know, 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.839 we're going to get the DNA background next or whatever. 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:18.439 I remember recently someone came to me and wanted to 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:22.640 into me as part of a sort of panel show 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:24.800 whatever you want to call it, at the south By 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.560 Southwest Festival that was coming to Sydney, and they have 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:29.719 a thing now and I was quite surprised. They sent 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:33.040 me the application to fill out and they have a 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.400 question that says, what is your racial background? 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:37.599 And and you actually have to fill it. 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:39.400 Now, this is the sort of thing that used to 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:43.199 be done in a part of South Africa. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:45.440 You know, are you a colored? Are you a black? 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:47.040 Are you a white? Are you an Indian? 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:49.920 I mean, I just I just found I mean maybe 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.160 it was like a sort of you know, a re 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:54.920 education for me so I could under understand what it 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.040 liked to be right Anyway, I knew as soon as 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.160 I finished, as I filled it out, there was absolutely 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.240 no way in hell that's going anywhere near that fest 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.079 of all. I just fill out. You know, aryan superman 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:06.559 and you've. 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:07.240 Got a changeo. 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.760 You could easily make something up about you. 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:11.720 I did know. I did something. 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.480 I think I said something like, you know, self hating 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:16.920 Irish Catholic who everybody thinks he is Jewish. 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:18.559 I didn't get through it. 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.199 I've talked before about a mate of mine who worked 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.160 for the ABC and he wanted to go for a promotion. 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:25.720 But as he was filling out the documents to apply 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.319 for it, one of the criteria was what diversity characteristics 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:31.880 would you bring to the role. The poor guy couldn't 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.440 think of any but what a waste of taxpayer money. 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:39.280 The Spanish government will actually use taxpayer money to pay 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.840 consultants to sit and just trawl through hours and hours 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.760 of news footage calculating who talks for how long and 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:48.760 whether or not it's fair. I mean, you would be 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:52.320 irate when you're a taxpayer that's how your money's being spent. 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:54.600 Now, I can't wait to see the results because I 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.560 think it will show that we women, as we're famous for, 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:02.600 do talk more than the men to robots. Now, Elon 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.200 Musk has said that just within a matter of years, 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:11.960 robots are going to replace the best surgeons in the world. 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:16.800 He tweeted just yesterday robots will surpass good human surgeons 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.400 within a few years and the best human surgeons within 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:21.480 five years. 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:23.360 Neuralink, that's his. 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.439 Own company, had to use a robot for the brain 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:30.120 computer electrode insertion that's a brain. 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.719 Chip, as it was impossible for a human to. 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:37.000 Achieve the required speed end presition. This is on the 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:42.599 back of Medtronic Hugo. They've called it robotic assisted surgery, 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:44.520 which is now all the rage. 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:46.920 They're sprooking their new robotics. 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.040 This picture of the mockup of what they're actually doing 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.640 with the robot isn't very reassuring, but they do tell 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:58.439 us it is now performed over one hundred and thirty 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:05.040 seven lie on real people surgeries without a hitch. And 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.800 when you look at this next video and the precision 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:12.559 in which these robots can make incisions and make stitches 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:17.520 and do all the fine finicky things surgeons do, you 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:19.040 wonder if they're right. 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:24.680 This is Sony's surgical robot which can perform microsurgery with 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.360 great precision. To demonstrate its procedure, a small cut was 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.240 made on a corn grain which the robot stitched with 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:35.680 great precision. This robot has been specially designed for performing 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:40.480 super microsurgery, which allows surgeons to operate on extremely small 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:44.360 vessels of less than one millimeter. For this, a specialist 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.880 with experience and steady hands is usually required. 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.720 Imagine being a surgeon in training at the moment, that's 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:57.080 eleven to thirteen years of training here in Australia that 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:01.640 you've undergone to finally work on live and do whatever 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.480 they need done, and you've just learned within five years Mate, 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:07.720 you're going to be redundant. 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:09.120 Joe, how would you take it? 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:10.880 Well, look, I've got a lot of concerns with this. 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:12.720 Thank you very much for raising it, Liz, because this 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:14.640 is the sort of brave new world we're facing, and 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.640 other mainstream media outlets simply do not give it the 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:18.960 attention it deserves. 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:20.680 Firstly, if we could go back to. 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.640 Elon Musk's original tweet, the graphic that we showed you 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.840 right up the top of the show, Elon Musk says, 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:32.040 robots will surpass good human surgeons within a few years, 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.320 and the best human surgeons within five years. 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.760 Shouldn't we be replacing the worst human surgeons? 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:40.920 What are we doing replacing the best ones? 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.080 They're the best, which will be starting with the bad ones. 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:46.120 And you know what happens. 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.400 When you start replacing the good ones, is that the 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.640 bad ones you get to The next video that we saw, 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:55.440 which was a robot that's so bad at surgery it 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.320 thinks to the human is a cop of corn. 0:15:59.040 --> 0:15:59.960 They're very different. 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.920 One's a human being and the other's corn, and the 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:04.160 Roman can't even tell the. 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.800 Difference, and sity there trying to stitch up the corn. 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.960 The cord's fine anyway. 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.440 Thankfully, we also caught a glimpse of just how this 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.840 technology could be applied. In fact, as you know, I 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.280 always do my research, and I've actually found video evidence 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:25.800 of this surgery being applied not to a cob of corn, 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.480 but to a real, live human being. This is the facts, people, 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:48.920 This is what you won't see elsewhere. Now, notwithstanding the 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.200 kind of creepy way that Luke checked out his sister 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.240 as she was walking out the door, that I think 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:59.600 is a much better application of robot surgery than cutting 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:00.000 up corn. 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.080 Is this really replacing surgeons or is this just robot 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:05.600 assisted surgery? 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:06.960 We have that already. 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:11.400 We have that already, and the doctors using it love 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:16.040 it because they can do incredible things in tandem with 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:20.320 the technology that is available to still need just talking 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:25.080 about the robots themselves being the surgeon, but you would. 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.679 Still need a human being surgeon on hand if things 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:33.280 go wrong. Surely robots couldn't anticipate every complication, as so 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.720 often happens in an operating theater. My concern would be 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.199 less about surgeons being replaced, because I'm not sure that 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:43.080 would ever happen. But robots operating don't have a sense 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.960 of compassion, don't have the same judgment or ethics that 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.000 a human being has I'm not sure I want to 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:54.840 be operated on by someone who is only cognizant of algorithms. 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:59.160 Rather than you know, my this is human welfare. 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.600 This is the theory that always just blows my mind 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:04.399 because what happens is not so much the robots who 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:07.320 are doing the actual surgery, but what happens if AI 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:09.679 gets to the point. So you know, Isaac Asimov has 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:11.600 got his first law of robotics, which is that you 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.679 can do no harm to humans or whatever. But what 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.280 if you had an AI that was told, right, your 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.879 number one priority, no matter what, is to save human life, 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:21.320 it's to save the human race. 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.359 How long would it be. 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:26.520 Before that robot says, right, we are so overpopulated that 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.440 the planet is going to use up all its resources 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:33.720 and it turns into Thanos from the Marvel movies. Or indeed, 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.159 you know what happens if a robot surgeon has someone 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.879 and decides that actually, it's quality of life after the 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.080 surgery would be so poor that would be better off dead, 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.159 and the robot just and again, this is not a 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:47.840 decision that the robot surgeon would make in the operating theater. 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:49.600 And by the way, do you know they can stitch 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:54.520 up blood vessels that are half a millimeter. I mean, 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:58.480 that's amazing, even you know, even like you know, Charlie 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:00.800 T I can't do that, So that is because amazing. 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:04.960 But again, what if you have robots just making all 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.200 these you kind of I don't know. 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:08.440 There's something really. 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:14.160 Terrifying rational in operating theater, especially if it's an emergency operation, 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.760 that you want a human being making those decisions, not 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:18.240 a pre programmed computer. 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.080 Well, what you're saying, Joe, is that ultimately there'll be 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:26.440 far more utilitarian. That's right, Yes, Ultimately, this person's a burden, 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:28.480 and therefore, or. 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.359 The robot will say, I know how many people I have, 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.120 you know, I am like deep thought or like hol 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:37.000 In two thousand and one or whatever. I know how 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.240 many people are waiting for X number of surgeries, And 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.719 if we expend this amount of time and resources on 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:47.400 this person here, we could actually better divert those resources 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:49.840 to save ten lives over here instead of this one 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.800 life here. And therefore it is a perfectly rational decision that. 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:56.680 This organ transplant should go to a better recipient. 0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:59.600 I'm not performed, so that's exactly right, or something I'm 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:01.360 operat on a seventy year old. 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:02.200 And they're hard. 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:04.120 And I've just become aware that there is a twelve 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.480 year old who suddenly needs a heart transplant, and they 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.400 would have seventy more years than the years I'm giving 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:11.639 this person. Therefore, I am saving more life if I 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.080 cease operating, pick up the heart and bug it in 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:14.520 the new kid. 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:15.800 So the question fix. 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.119 The question becomes, is AI the beginning of the apocalypse 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.280 or is it the answer to things like low birth 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:27.639 rates in western countries and the need for immigration. KPMG's 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:32.600 digital boss John Money seems to think that AI is 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:35.879 going to solve a whole lot of problems, especially for 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:39.480 Western nations. As I said, with falling birth rates, he said, 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:41.760 ultimately the sort of work that we would have traditionally 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.520