1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: Nine minutes past nine. If you suffer tinatus, this is 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: something you should listen to. No pun intended, but it's 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: tinatous Awareness Week and your brain could filter out tinatus, 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: you could get your life back. How will that work? Well, 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: let's find out. Doctor Matthew Rekenya is on the line. 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: It's a researcher in tinatus. Doctor. Good evening, Thanks for 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: your time. 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 2: Hi Matthew, thanks for having me. 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about the research you're doing. 10 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 2: So basically, tinatus is a very complex condition which can 11 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 2: come from different sources, different factors. It's something that can 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: come from age related hearing us, sometimes injury or infection. 13 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 2: So it's quite a complicated problem and there is still 14 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: no cure. We can't get rid of it. So the 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 2: best we can do today is really try and understand 16 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 2: it better. And the second thing we can try to 17 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: do is how to treat it or how to manage 18 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 2: it and what are the best techniques to do that. 19 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: What has been going on and there's a lot of 20 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 2: research around Australia and around the world that tries to 21 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 2: find those techniques and what are the techniques that are 22 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 2: the most effective at managing tinatis and we're trying this 23 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 2: week to give a voice to that research and put 24 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 2: it in the foreground and get people to try it 25 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 2: and understand what it does and how it can work 26 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: for them. 27 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: All Right, we'll talk about that in a sec but firstly, 28 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: tentatives itself. What is it? I mean, I've heard it 29 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: described from people who have it as just ringing in 30 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: the ears. Is that what it is? 31 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 2: So the actual official definition of tinatus is the perception 32 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: of a sound in the absence of an external stimulus, 33 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 2: meaning there is no sounds around you, but your brain 34 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 2: is perceiving or is hearing a sound. And that can 35 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 2: be something that people put in the background naturally, or 36 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 2: it can become something very intrusive and bothersome for some 37 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 2: is a very broad term which can take different different 38 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 2: shape and different impact on different people. 39 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: Okay, why does the brain do that? 40 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 2: So it's it's not fully understood. Sometimes it's to compensate 41 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 2: for some kind of damage on the hearing pathways. So 42 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: when it's in the case of hearing loss or trauma, 43 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: there might be some damage in the peripheral parts of 44 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 2: the hearing pathways of the brain and your brain is 45 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 2: basically lost some signal that is trying to compensate for 46 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: and creates the sounds. In other cases, it could be 47 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: linked to stress or anxiety, something that actually triggers your 48 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 2: limbic system to respond and like creates some kind of 49 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: of sounds. So there's different different reasons for it. 50 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, now you mentioned strategy, So how do 51 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: we convince the brain what it's hearing, if you like, 52 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: or imagining, is not real? How do we do that? 53 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 2: So the way to explain it, the simplest way to 54 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: explain is that tinatus itself is not a threat. So 55 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: once you've got all the hearing checked, So if you 56 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 2: had your hearing tested, you had your ears looked into 57 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: by your GP or a geologist or an e n 58 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: T and you're sure there is no infection or there 59 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: is no you know, something that could be solved surgically 60 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 2: by an e n T, then from that point on, 61 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: the sound is present, but it's not a threat. It's 62 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 2: not something that you need to pay attention to. Because 63 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: the reason why tinatis becomes something bothersome or something intrusive 64 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,119 Speaker 2: is because you pay too much attention to it. Basically, 65 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 2: you enter a state of hyper vigilance where you're listening 66 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: to the fire alarm, but there is no more fire. 67 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: And what happens in that case is that the brand 68 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: just goes to this repetitive loop and tries to really check, 69 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: keeps checking on the sound and tries to understand why 70 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: it's there and what it represents. What we try to 71 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 2: do is use techniques to distract your brain and trick 72 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 2: or teach your brain to not listen to the sound 73 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: and understand that it's not something that you should be 74 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 2: paying attention to as much. And if you compare that 75 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 2: to something else that happens in the everyday life, like 76 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 2: the fridge in your kitchen or the ac in your 77 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 2: living room, these are all found that we assimilate as 78 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 2: being non threatening and that we immediately put in the background. 79 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: We habituates to them, were able to basically zoom out 80 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: of them or put them in the background, filter them 81 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 2: out of our life. Yeah. 82 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've got to do that with this as well. 83 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: It must be harder to do, though. 84 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: It's very easy to say and how to do, and 85 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: it takes time, and not everything is going to work 86 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 2: for everyone. I think there are four very important factors 87 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 2: that I like to talk about. The first one is 88 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: obviously reassurance that I just said about it's not something 89 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: that is life threatening, is not something that is going 90 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 2: to cause more issues than intrusiveness. Is very important. That 91 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: reassurance is also going to help you basically convince your 92 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 2: brain that you should let go of the sound. The 93 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,239 Speaker 2: second aspect is probably sound using sounds and some therapy 94 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: to distract yourself. So a lot of people have correlation 95 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: with hearing loss as well. So when you have hearing loss, 96 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: using hearing aids or some sort of device to help 97 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 2: you can also be considered to be some stimulation or 98 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 2: some therapy because you're basically distracting your brain with natural 99 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,119 Speaker 2: sounds that are in your environment. But you can also 100 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 2: use nature sounds or noises. Some people use noises at 101 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 2: night to fall asleep, or the radio in the background 102 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 2: to try and distract their brain from listening to the 103 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: sound constant. So that's very effective. And then the third 104 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 2: technique that has been shown to work really well is 105 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 2: cognitive behavioral therapy or cognitive behavior therapy informs interventions which 106 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: are basically trying to look at your emotions and your thoughts, 107 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: and by doing that, we again trying to change our 108 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 2: behavior and change the way we look at it to 109 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: try and let go. Because of that hypervisionance, we tend 110 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: to be very negative and very obsessed by the term, 111 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 2: so we try to break that down and make it 112 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: a bit more acceptable and a bit more acknowledged. And 113 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 2: the last one is obviously relaxation in my mindfulness. I 114 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier that ginitis is often linked to stress and anxiety. 115 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 2: Our stress response in the body physiologically create hormones like 116 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: cortisal adrenaline, which are gonna create a response in your 117 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 2: body that is going to make the tinities sound louder. 118 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: So by using breathing and relaxation, we're basically able to 119 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 2: stimulate our vagus nerves, which in turn helps us relax 120 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 2: and make that response less importance and at the same 121 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 2: time reduce the loudness of the tints. All those combined 122 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: are very effective, and people can pick and choose which 123 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 2: ones they want to try and put put in their lifestyle. 124 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: All right, I imagine there'd be a lot of quack 125 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: cures floating around the Internet, particularly where people might google, 126 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: you know, a solution for internet for sorry, solution for 127 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,679 Speaker 1: tinatus and come up with, you know, some crazy things 128 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: like pouring hot oil in your ears or something I 129 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: don't know that is correct. 130 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 2: That is correct. There's a lot of things. There's everything 131 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 2: and anything, and you can hear of sprays, drops, pills, devices, vibrations, 132 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 2: things that acupuncture sometimes is also brought up. All those 133 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 2: things will have some kind of benefit to some extent 134 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 2: for people. Sometimes it's a placebo effect. Sometimes it might 135 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 2: have a relaxation effect, and sometimes it actually might be 136 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 2: helping something else that is stressing you up and ends 137 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: up having an impact on your tenatis. But the evidence 138 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: when it comes to tinetis itself is really centered around us. 139 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 2: For techniques I mentioned earlier information about the condition, some therapy, 140 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 2: tibet and relaxation in those combined can help and in 141 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: some cases now we're seeing more and more, you know, 142 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 2: research being done in other ways of stimulating the ears 143 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: and the brain to help basically reduce the loudness of 144 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: the tinatus. And that's what came out in December in 145 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: the UK, someone using sounds and some therapy to try 146 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: and stimulate the brain and new way to desynchronize some 147 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: of the neurons and try to help the tinetist loudness 148 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 2: go down. 149 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: Sure, all right, have we seen a rise in over 150 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: the last I don't know, decade all two, I imagine. 151 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of causes and people wearing headphones 152 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: particularly over the last what ten twenty years, although I 153 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: suppose we had them around before, you know, loud loud workplaces, 154 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: loud conscerts. This is nothing new, I suppose in terms 155 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: of damaging the hearing at least and resulting in tinatures, I. 156 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 2: Think, I think absolutely right, there's a big, you know, 157 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 2: prevalence that is increasing. I think it's sometimes related to 158 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 2: hearing loss as well, So there is a big link 159 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 2: between hearing loss and sinatis. But seventy percent of people 160 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: with sinatis have some sort of hearing problems, not always 161 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: considered hearing loss in terms of a specific audiogram or 162 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 2: considered to be a problem, but they have hearing problems. 163 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 2: And that means that the more you expose yourself to 164 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 2: noises as well, the more you're going to be damaging 165 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 2: your hearing systems, the more you're likely to develop tinities 166 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: at some point in your life. That being fad doesn't 167 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 2: mean that everyone is going to be bothered by the tinatis. Actually, 168 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: the research shows that there is ten to fifteen percent 169 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 2: of the population at some point in their life will 170 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: experiment will experienced sinits is in a chronic or acute manner. 171 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: So it could be that you go to a concert 172 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: and you come out of it with your ears buzzing, 173 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 2: or it could be something as I said before, maybe 174 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 2: a trauma. Maybe you have a car accent whiplash that 175 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 2: creates some irradiating pain in your neck and that creates tinnises. 176 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 2: So there are different ways to develop it, but only 177 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: two to three percent of those that have tinatis or 178 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 2: experience did it will become bothered by it, and that's 179 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 2: really where the attention is, because this is really the 180 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: impact that it's having, and it's really where these people 181 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 2: need a lot of help. 182 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: And the first place would be go to the GP. 183 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 2: Presumably, absolutely so a lot of people, I think it's 184 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 2: about ninety four percent start online. So they start by 185 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 2: looking for solutions online obviously, and then after that they 186 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 2: end up obviously going to the GPS. Most of the 187 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: time the problem there is a GP will really say 188 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: if there is no hearing problems, there's nothing you can do. 189 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 2: And that's really where I don't I like to say, 190 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: maybe let's take a step back and reflect on what 191 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: they're saying. It's they're not saying there's nothing you can do. 192 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 2: They say there's nothing they can do about it for you. 193 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 2: And you can do a lot of things to try 194 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 2: and do that process of habituation and get better manage 195 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 2: it yourself. And you need to find those ways for yourself. 196 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: Jimmy has texted in she says hearing aid. She's found 197 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: a hearing aid stops tenatus. Could that be the case? 198 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: Absolutely? Absolutely so. If you have hearing loss, so that's 199 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 2: mild to moderate hearing loss or even you know, profound 200 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 2: hearing loss, sometimes because you've lost some of the signal 201 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 2: that used to go to your brain, the brain has 202 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 2: to compensate. It's like turning the volume up on the 203 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 2: radio without the radio being im tune on any channels, right, 204 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 2: you're going to have noise. Right, So your brain is 205 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 2: doing essentially the same thing is up the bottom upping 206 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 2: the game, and then something is happening and it's just 207 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: making noise. 208 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: Right. 209 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 2: So when you have amplification with a hearing aid, you're 210 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: basically restimulating this part of the hearing system that last 211 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: its signal and the brain is now receiving the signal 212 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 2: on the channels that didn't have anything for a while. 213 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 2: And it doesn't have to put the volume as much 214 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 2: as up as you used to do, so it puts 215 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 2: the volume of the tins down. 216 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: How about that? All right? Fascinating discussion. Dr Mitchell Reckon Ye, 217 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time and for anybody 218 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: with tinators start at the GP as you suggest. Thank you, 219 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: thank you, have a good night. All right. That's Tinator's 220 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 1: awareness week this week, so I thought we'd get him 221 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: on a lot of people I know suffer tenatus and 222 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: it you know, it is to a large degree age 223 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: related potentially anyway, although interesting to hear, even a car 224 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: accident could do it, and it could start a lot earlier. 225 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: It's amazing the human body.