WEBVTT - How Kumanjayi Walker’s death should change the NT Police

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<v Speaker 1>On nine November twenty nineteen, in Yundamu, Kumenji Walker, a

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen year old Walpur literature teenager, was shot and killed

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<v Speaker 1>by former Constable Zachary Rolf.

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<v Speaker 2>Kumanji Walker's family gathered this week to hear coroner Elizabeth

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<v Speaker 2>Armitage share her findings into his death.

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<v Speaker 1>Having considered all the evidence, including mister Rolf's explanations and justifications,

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<v Speaker 1>I found that mister Rolf was racist and that he

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<v Speaker 1>worked in and was the beneficiary of an organization with

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<v Speaker 1>hallmarks of institutional racism.

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<v Speaker 2>In twenty twenty two, Rolf was found not guilty of

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<v Speaker 2>Kumanji Walker's murder, but his family have always maintained that

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<v Speaker 2>Rolfs racism played a role in Walker's death. Coroner Elizabeth

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<v Speaker 2>Armitich said she couldn't rule that out.

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<v Speaker 1>That I cannot exclude that possibility. Is a tragedy for

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<v Speaker 1>kumin Jay's family and community who will always believe that

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<v Speaker 1>race played an integral part in his death, and it

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<v Speaker 1>is a taint that may stain the NT police.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Daniel James, and you're listening at seven am today

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<v Speaker 2>Investigative journalist Kate Wilde and what the inquest revealed about

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<v Speaker 2>the racist culture of the Northern Territory Police, how it

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<v Speaker 2>enabled Zachary Rolf to act with impunity, and whether institutional

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<v Speaker 2>change is possible. It's Wednesday, July ninth, Kate, this particular

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<v Speaker 2>in quest, can you tell me about its scope and

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<v Speaker 2>about the coroner's approach the questions that she was seeking

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<v Speaker 2>to answer.

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<v Speaker 3>So, the coronial process is designed to determine the place

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<v Speaker 3>and cause of a person's death and the identity of

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<v Speaker 3>your person who's died at it's most basic, also designed

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<v Speaker 3>to figure out what has contributed to that death in

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<v Speaker 3>order to prevent similar deaths in the future. And that

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<v Speaker 3>was really the task that Elizabeth Armitage set herself, was

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<v Speaker 3>to look more deeply at this conflict between a young

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<v Speaker 3>Aboriginal man and a young white police officer in a

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<v Speaker 3>single house in a remote community in the Northern Territory.

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<v Speaker 3>What led them both to be in that house at

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<v Speaker 3>that moment, What were the forces, the cultural and attitudinal

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<v Speaker 3>forces driving each of them, and what made that a

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<v Speaker 3>fatal moment of contact. One of the things that has

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<v Speaker 3>been most impressive about this inquest is the way that

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<v Speaker 3>Elizabeth Armitage has run her courtroom. It's been one of

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<v Speaker 3>the most inclusive and informal processes that I've seen. For instance,

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<v Speaker 3>the Colonial opened with a Walbury interpreter sitting next to

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<v Speaker 3>Liby Armitage on the bench and interpreting everything that she said.

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<v Speaker 3>So from the beginning, Wolbury language and law and culture

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<v Speaker 3>were sort of placed the same level as the most

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<v Speaker 3>senior Western legal person in the room. And those singular

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<v Speaker 3>acts of sort of rebellion against the way that things

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<v Speaker 3>have always been and taking the risk of making a

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<v Speaker 3>change like that, that risk being taken by someone in

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<v Speaker 3>a position of power. I think maybe that's the kind

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<v Speaker 3>of thing that is going to bring the sorts of

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<v Speaker 3>change that we all want to see but don't necessarily

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<v Speaker 3>believe can come just from a single report.

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<v Speaker 2>And so why has it taken so long for this

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<v Speaker 2>report to be handed down?

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<v Speaker 3>So the coronials started in September twenty twenty two, about

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<v Speaker 3>six months after Rolf's trial finished, and he was acquitted.

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<v Speaker 3>Almost immediately, Zachary Rolf's legal team started making objections to

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<v Speaker 3>the kind of evidence that he should be made to give,

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<v Speaker 3>so having to give evidence about racism within the Northern

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<v Speaker 3>Territory Police Force. Rolph objected to giving evidence about his

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<v Speaker 3>use of force, history, about his record in the military,

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<v Speaker 3>about text messages that were found on his phone, and

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<v Speaker 3>about his disciplinary history in the Northern Churchill Police and

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<v Speaker 3>those legal appeals are far and away the biggest reason

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<v Speaker 3>for delays for it going from what should have been

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<v Speaker 3>a few months to almost three years.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's go to what the coroner found. When Judge

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<v Speaker 2>Armaitich read out her reports, she said that having considered

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<v Speaker 2>all the evidence, including mister Rolf's explanations and justifications, that

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<v Speaker 2>she found that mister Rolf was racist.

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<v Speaker 1>While it is not possible for me to say with

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<v Speaker 1>certainty that mister Rolf's racist attitudes were operative in his

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<v Speaker 1>decisions on nine November, or were a contributing cause of

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<v Speaker 1>Kumanjai's death, I cannot exclude that possibility.

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<v Speaker 2>And so we want to say that racism may have

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<v Speaker 2>been a contributing cause of Kumanjai Walker's death in so

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<v Speaker 2>far as it may have influenced his actions that night.

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<v Speaker 2>That is something the Walker family have maintained to be

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<v Speaker 2>the case. How significant is a finding like that from

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<v Speaker 2>the coroner.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's signal. I don't think to anyone who

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<v Speaker 3>has been in the territory or following this inquest closely

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<v Speaker 3>that it would have been a surprise. It may have

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<v Speaker 3>been a surprise that the coroner stated it so clearly.

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<v Speaker 3>I think what was more of a surprise was that

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<v Speaker 3>Judge Armitage expanded the scope and the influence of racism

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<v Speaker 3>to the police force more generally as well, to say that, yes,

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<v Speaker 3>definitely Zachary rolf was racist, and his attitudes and his

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<v Speaker 3>beliefs would have influenced his approach to that night and

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<v Speaker 3>could have been a fact during commen Joe Walker's death,

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<v Speaker 3>but also that some of the responsibility for that lay

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<v Speaker 3>with the Northern Territory of Police Force, which was an

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<v Speaker 3>organization that showed the hallmarks of institutional racism, and that

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<v Speaker 3>because there were senior members within the police force who

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<v Speaker 3>were responsible for Zachary rolfan who were sort of colluding

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<v Speaker 3>with him in his behavior and encouraging him in it,

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<v Speaker 3>he was left immune to any kind of censure. He

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<v Speaker 3>was sort of encouraged to keep going. No one ever

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<v Speaker 3>told him that what he was doing was not okay.

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<v Speaker 1>In disturbing evidence. On at least five occasions, mister Rolf

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<v Speaker 1>recorded on his phone body worn footage of his forceful

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<v Speaker 1>arrests of Aboriginal men. He replayed the body worn video

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<v Speaker 1>to colleagues and forwarded the phone footage to family and friends.

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<v Speaker 1>It is clear that a significant motivation for doing this

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<v Speaker 1>was because he was proud of, was boasting about and

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<v Speaker 1>wished to be celebrated for his physical feats of tactical

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<v Speaker 1>skill or ability. He thought that using force against arrest

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<v Speaker 1>targets and causing them serious injury was funny.

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<v Speaker 2>And how do you think that the Northern Territory police

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<v Speaker 2>forces grappling with the need to reform itself.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's been one of the most interesting things

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<v Speaker 3>for me to watch over the sort of now almost

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<v Speaker 3>six years since Kimunjay Walker's death. It was really evident

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<v Speaker 3>during Zachary ROV's murder trial that there was a sort

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<v Speaker 3>of internal battle going on within the Northern Territory Police

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<v Speaker 3>Force for who would rule the culture, and it was

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<v Speaker 3>a battle between you know what have known up here

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<v Speaker 3>as bush cops and town cops. They're really loose terms,

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<v Speaker 3>but bush cops, you know, people who work out in

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<v Speaker 3>remote communities and are much more focused on community policing,

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<v Speaker 3>which is based on relationships and de escalation. They still

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<v Speaker 3>face some really dangerous situations, you know, often in really

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<v Speaker 3>isolated settings. But it's a much more humanistic approach, I

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<v Speaker 3>would guess you could say, whereas the loose term town cops,

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<v Speaker 3>which really in this instance sort of refers to Zachary

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<v Speaker 3>Rolf's style of policing of sort of cowboy Rambo where

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<v Speaker 3>the tough guys were dominating sort of culture. There's been

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<v Speaker 3>a battle between those two groups since Kimunji Walker's death

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<v Speaker 3>to see who will gain the uphand within the Northern

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<v Speaker 3>Territory Police Force, the coroner certainly in her findings has

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<v Speaker 3>supported the bush cop culture. The Northern Church of the

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<v Speaker 3>Police Force executive has come out and said that that

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<v Speaker 3>is definitely the kind of culture that they want to

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<v Speaker 3>promote and that they want to be known for as

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<v Speaker 3>a Northern Church of police officers. But they have a

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<v Speaker 3>real fight on their hands because that's not how all

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<v Speaker 3>frontline police officers want a police.

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<v Speaker 2>After the break, the change come and die Walker's family

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<v Speaker 2>is calling for. Today is not a very.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not a really a happy day for us. It's

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<v Speaker 3>another sad day.

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<v Speaker 2>So Kate. When Zachary Rolf was ac quitted of Kamanjie

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<v Speaker 2>Walker's murder, his grandfather need Japan. Jin Hardgraves called for

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<v Speaker 2>a band and all guns in Aboriginal communities.

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<v Speaker 1>No guns, no guns in a row remote community.

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<v Speaker 2>W I want no guns.

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<v Speaker 3>Enough is enough.

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<v Speaker 2>There are several other calls that have come from the

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<v Speaker 2>Uindomu community. They want an independent police, armbudsman, self determination,

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<v Speaker 2>investment and alternatives to prison. What hope do you think

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<v Speaker 2>the family has now that this inquest has finished and

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<v Speaker 2>the report has been handed down, will it get them

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<v Speaker 2>closest to any of those outcomes?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, one of the strongest findings that the coroner

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<v Speaker 3>made was that the Northern Terati of Police should work

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<v Speaker 3>with the Undabout leadership to work out the circumstances in

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<v Speaker 3>which police don't carry guns in community.

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<v Speaker 1>I've recommended that the anti police engaged directly with the

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<v Speaker 1>leadership groups to develop mutual respect agreements, including when it

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<v Speaker 1>would be appropriate for police not to carry firearms in community.

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<v Speaker 1>And I've made other recommendations concerning the use of long

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<v Speaker 1>arm weapons.

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<v Speaker 3>So certainly they've been supported by the coroner in that

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<v Speaker 3>desire for sort of more self determination, no guns in

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<v Speaker 3>remote communities.

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<v Speaker 1>I've made recommendations on recruit training and cultural inductions. Specifically,

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<v Speaker 1>I have recommended that the circumstances of Cooman Jay's death

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<v Speaker 1>be incorporated in training on officer induced jeopardy to NT

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<v Speaker 1>health in an effort to both prevent and address trauma

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<v Speaker 1>experience by young people like cumen Jay. I have recommended

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<v Speaker 1>a strengthening of its developmental screening programs for children under

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<v Speaker 1>five years to strengthen relationships and the cultural competency of clinics.

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<v Speaker 1>I have recommended that work be done with the local

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<v Speaker 1>health advisory groups and other community groups. And I have

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<v Speaker 1>recommended a strategy be developed for the delivery of sustainable

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<v Speaker 1>mental health services in Central Australia Australia, including a new DEMOU.

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<v Speaker 3>But I guess the community is at the mercy of

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<v Speaker 3>powers greater than them, governments willingness to support change, to

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<v Speaker 3>fund change. I think there's a level of cynicism and

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<v Speaker 3>resignation that all of this paperwork and all of this

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<v Speaker 3>talking happens and then that's the end of it. So

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<v Speaker 3>I think a lot of people don't have a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of expectations, But I think there's reason to have hope

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<v Speaker 3>that at least a position like the Coroners is very

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<v Speaker 3>much in support of what the community has asked for.

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<v Speaker 3>I think there's an extra layer of grief at the

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<v Speaker 3>moment because there's been another death in custody of a

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<v Speaker 3>young wildpri man quite recently, and that sort of on

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<v Speaker 3>its own has opened up a lot of old wounds.

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<v Speaker 3>But sitting listening to the coroner reader some of her

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<v Speaker 3>recommendations and findings yesterday, in which she also went back

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<v Speaker 3>through quite a few of the details of Kumanchized actual death,

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<v Speaker 3>I think those wounds were really reopened again in a

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<v Speaker 3>very visceral sort of way to.

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<v Speaker 1>Kuman Jay's family and to the community of Yundmu. I

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<v Speaker 1>am sorry for your profound loss. I now hand down

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<v Speaker 1>my findings. There was no reaction from people when the

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<v Speaker 1>coroner finished speaking at the end of about forty five

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<v Speaker 1>minutes of a presentation, and people just sort of melted

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<v Speaker 1>away reasonably quickly, and the space was left kind of

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<v Speaker 1>kind of empty.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been almost thirty years since the Royal Commission into

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<v Speaker 2>Aboriginal Deaths incusody, and we've known so much about these

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<v Speaker 2>issues for decades. Kate and governments have really set on

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<v Speaker 2>recommendations to fix this. But it's been a long long

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<v Speaker 2>time and it keeps happening. So do you believe that

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<v Speaker 2>there will be a case or a report that finally

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<v Speaker 2>makes governments act.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I don't. I don't think reports. I mean I

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<v Speaker 3>think they're worthwhile. I think what the coroner has produced

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<v Speaker 3>is a slab of history and a story that bears

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<v Speaker 3>witness to one of the latest chapters in the Northern

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<v Speaker 3>Territory's history of relationships between First Nations people and the police.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, there are supermarket trolleys full of reports

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<v Speaker 3>all over the country into things like this, and none

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<v Speaker 3>of them have managed to make the change that are necessary.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know what will make that change other than

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<v Speaker 3>continued pressure from the broader community on the political system.

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<v Speaker 3>It feels like a really lay answer, But I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know that anyone has the answer to what will make

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<v Speaker 3>the change happen, otherwise we'd be doing it.

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<v Speaker 2>And in terms of that idea of the community placing

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<v Speaker 2>pressure on government tact, what told does that take on

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<v Speaker 2>a family to have to do that over years and years.

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<v Speaker 3>Enormous It's an enormous toll. But that's a toll that

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<v Speaker 3>First Nations people around the country. And I would say,

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<v Speaker 3>in my experience, particularly in remote communities carry every day.

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<v Speaker 3>The lives of people in U and Demu are political

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<v Speaker 3>every single day, and so they are constantly carrying that

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<v Speaker 3>weight that their lives are controlled hemmed in by laws

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<v Speaker 3>and regulations and decisions that they don't have any part

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<v Speaker 3>in and they don't have any power over. And so

0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:08.599
<v Speaker 3>fighting against that is a part of daily life for

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<v Speaker 3>people in remote communities and it takes an enormous toll.

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<v Speaker 2>Kate, thank you for talking to me today.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a pleasure.

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<v Speaker 2>Kate Wilde's book about the life and death of common

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<v Speaker 2>Joe Walker is called The Red House. It will be

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<v Speaker 2>out soon. Also in the news, the Reserve Bank has

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<v Speaker 2>to fight expectations of a rate cut, instead holding the

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<v Speaker 2>cash trade at three point eight five percent. According to

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<v Speaker 2>a post meeting statement from the RBA Board, the decision

0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.040
<v Speaker 2>was made by majority, with six in favor and three

0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.120
<v Speaker 2>against the decision. The bank had been widely tipped to

0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:56.200
<v Speaker 2>cartingteri'st rates following a slowing of inflation. The board will

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<v Speaker 2>meet again in August, and Alan Jones's lawyer has told

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<v Speaker 2>to Sydney Court that he holds grave concerns about the

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<v Speaker 2>legality of a surge police conducted on the broadcaster's phone.

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<v Speaker 2>Alan Jones has been charged with thirty five sexual offenses

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<v Speaker 2>involving the indecent assault, groping and inappropriate touching of several

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<v Speaker 2>young men. He has denied the allegations. Jones is on

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<v Speaker 2>bail and was not required to appear in court, but

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<v Speaker 2>his lawyer, Brian Ranch said they have lodged a legal

0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:27.520
<v Speaker 2>complaint over the phone search. I'm Daniel James. This is

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<v Speaker 2>seven AM Tomorrow. Ruby sits down with Antoinette Latouffe to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about her win against the ABC and what it

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<v Speaker 2>says about how decisions are made at the public broadcaster.

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<v Speaker 4>I think audiences are rightly skeptical and if the ABC

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<v Speaker 4>wants to remain relevant and trusted as the most trusted

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<v Speaker 4>news source in the world, it needs to show that

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<v Speaker 4>it can withstand lobbying of any form.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening. Yes,