1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,689 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,690 --> 00:00:10,110 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Some of the best success stories are of entrepreneurs 3 00:00:10,289 --> 00:00:13,110 Sean Aylmer: setting out to fix a problem they come across in 4 00:00:13,110 --> 00:00:15,900 Sean Aylmer: their own industry. Today's interview is one of those, an 5 00:00:15,900 --> 00:00:19,950 Sean Aylmer: Australian restauranteur who found a better way for restaurants, cafes, 6 00:00:19,950 --> 00:00:22,709 Sean Aylmer: and bars to operate. He's now been awarded a US 7 00:00:22,710 --> 00:00:28,140 Sean Aylmer: patent, valuing his business at $ 275 million. Peter Petroulas is 8 00:00:28,140 --> 00:00:32,130 Sean Aylmer: the founder and CEO of WizButler. Peter, welcome to Fear 9 00:00:32,130 --> 00:00:32,610 Sean Aylmer: and Greed. 10 00:00:33,330 --> 00:00:34,589 Peter Petroulas: Thank you, Sean. Nice to be with you. 11 00:00:34,590 --> 00:00:40,080 Sean Aylmer: It's a great story. Tell me the thumbnail version of 12 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,070 Sean Aylmer: what you discovered in your industry among restaurants and catering 13 00:00:44,490 --> 00:00:46,890 Sean Aylmer: and what you decided to do about it. 14 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,210 Peter Petroulas: The most difficult problem within a restaurant to manage is 15 00:00:51,210 --> 00:00:54,030 Peter Petroulas: its capacity or its inventory, which is really, it's tables 16 00:00:54,030 --> 00:01:00,180 Peter Petroulas: and chairs and the allocation of bookings. Prior to our 17 00:01:00,180 --> 00:01:04,470 Peter Petroulas: WizButler, everybody tried to solve that problem using one pool 18 00:01:04,470 --> 00:01:07,650 Peter Petroulas: of the tables and they referred to that as table management. 19 00:01:08,340 --> 00:01:12,270 Peter Petroulas: We went a completely different way and we managed space 20 00:01:12,750 --> 00:01:15,480 Peter Petroulas: and then we placed the tables within that space based 21 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,720 Peter Petroulas: on the requirements of the bookings in question, which is 22 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,600 Peter Petroulas: a completely different approach to what everyone else had done 23 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,259 Peter Petroulas: before. I guess to give an example, a restaurant can 24 00:01:25,260 --> 00:01:29,130 Peter Petroulas: never know what combination of booking requests they will get 25 00:01:29,130 --> 00:01:31,770 Peter Petroulas: one day to the next day or what mix they 26 00:01:31,770 --> 00:01:34,260 Peter Petroulas: are and what order they will come in. And because you 27 00:01:34,260 --> 00:01:37,620 Peter Petroulas: can't guess that or predict that, whatever you do in 28 00:01:37,620 --> 00:01:41,040 Peter Petroulas: a table management scenario will be wrong because you're only 29 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:42,420 Peter Petroulas: using one pool of tables. 30 00:01:43,620 --> 00:01:46,319 Sean Aylmer: Okay. I haven't really thought much about this, but you 31 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,870 Sean Aylmer: go to a restaurant and they say table for two, 32 00:01:48,870 --> 00:01:50,280 Sean Aylmer: and they say, " I'm sorry. I've got a table for 33 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,830 Sean Aylmer: four," or you want a table for four and there's 34 00:01:52,830 --> 00:01:54,570 Sean Aylmer: two tables of two and they're a long way away 35 00:01:54,570 --> 00:01:57,000 Sean Aylmer: from each other. It's kind of those things that this 36 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:57,870 Sean Aylmer: is solving for. 37 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:02,700 Peter Petroulas: 100%. I guess restaurants are far more complicated businesses to 38 00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:06,840 Peter Petroulas: operate from an inventory perspective than airlines or hotels. Because 39 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,540 Peter Petroulas: with an airline, even if you're a family of six, 40 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,389 Peter Petroulas: if there's not six seats available next to each other, 41 00:02:12,510 --> 00:02:15,720 Peter Petroulas: well then, you just have to take the closest available 42 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,880 Peter Petroulas: seats. They don't require the airline to actually reconfigure its 43 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,490 Peter Petroulas: inventory. While with a restaurant, if it's a family of 44 00:02:23,490 --> 00:02:26,639 Peter Petroulas: six, well then, there's a requirement to actually construct a 45 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,000 Peter Petroulas: table of six and then push the other tables away 46 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,190 Peter Petroulas: from it so you can actually have your privacy in 47 00:02:32,190 --> 00:02:35,910 Peter Petroulas: your own space. So the complexity of inventory is far 48 00:02:35,910 --> 00:02:37,019 Peter Petroulas: more difficult in the restaurant. 49 00:02:37,530 --> 00:02:39,630 Sean Aylmer: So is that why sometimes if you go online and 50 00:02:39,630 --> 00:02:42,210 Sean Aylmer: you try and book a table somewhere and it's not 51 00:02:42,210 --> 00:02:45,990 Sean Aylmer: available, and then you might ring and maybe you'll get 52 00:02:45,990 --> 00:02:51,660 Sean Aylmer: in, but it's almost because its set placement of tables 53 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,950 Sean Aylmer: online that you're not... That's bad news to the restauranteur 54 00:02:55,950 --> 00:02:57,870 Sean Aylmer: if people can't get in because it's not filling up 55 00:02:57,870 --> 00:02:58,440 Sean Aylmer: the tables. 56 00:02:58,770 --> 00:03:01,109 Peter Petroulas: You hit the nail on the head, because they start 57 00:03:01,110 --> 00:03:04,380 Peter Petroulas: with one predefined floor plan on all these other online 58 00:03:04,380 --> 00:03:08,460 Peter Petroulas: booking systems. While they have a few permutations available within 59 00:03:08,460 --> 00:03:13,500 Peter Petroulas: that one- floor plan, they're limited. Yes, when the restaurant 60 00:03:13,500 --> 00:03:17,460 Peter Petroulas: is only 60%, 65% full, the actual booking system thinks it's 61 00:03:17,460 --> 00:03:18,180 Peter Petroulas: 100% full. 62 00:03:18,690 --> 00:03:21,870 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Okay. So big benefits to business. Hopefully that means 63 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,230 Sean Aylmer: more placings throughout an evening session. 64 00:03:25,830 --> 00:03:28,889 Peter Petroulas: Well, I guess I really approach this from a customer's 65 00:03:28,889 --> 00:03:32,250 Peter Petroulas: perspective, and that is they want a booking for that 66 00:03:32,250 --> 00:03:34,230 Peter Petroulas: restaurant. We want to make it easier for them to 67 00:03:34,230 --> 00:03:36,570 Peter Petroulas: get that booking in the restaurant. So therefore, if a 68 00:03:36,570 --> 00:03:40,710 Peter Petroulas: restaurant can take 50% more bookings using our system, then 69 00:03:40,860 --> 00:03:43,590 Peter Petroulas: apart from the obvious benefit to the restauranteur because he's 70 00:03:43,590 --> 00:03:46,410 Peter Petroulas: now got more customers and revenue, we're actually taking care 71 00:03:46,410 --> 00:03:49,140 Peter Petroulas: of the customer because we're giving them the allocation they 72 00:03:49,140 --> 00:03:50,130 Peter Petroulas: want in the restaurant they want. 73 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:55,320 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, okay. How fast through the process are you? Has 74 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,810 Sean Aylmer: it been rolled out to a large number of restaurants at this point? 75 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,470 Peter Petroulas: Well, we were more interested in developing the product over 76 00:04:01,470 --> 00:04:06,120 Peter Petroulas: the last couple of years. We've got quite a number 77 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,870 Peter Petroulas: of people or restaurants using our system. We haven't actually 78 00:04:09,870 --> 00:04:12,840 Peter Petroulas: rolled it out to the marketplace. While we have quite 79 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:17,339 Peter Petroulas: a number using it, we know it's 100% robust and 100% 80 00:04:17,339 --> 00:04:18,150 Peter Petroulas: ready for scaling. 81 00:04:18,930 --> 00:04:21,540 Sean Aylmer: It's great use of tech. Technology affects all of us, 82 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:23,940 Sean Aylmer: but there are some sectors which just seem to be 83 00:04:23,940 --> 00:04:27,089 Sean Aylmer: less hit by technology. This is an example where technology 84 00:04:27,210 --> 00:04:33,570 Sean Aylmer: can benefit a sector which otherwise probably hasn't quite been disrupted like some 85 00:04:33,570 --> 00:04:34,140 Sean Aylmer: of the others. 86 00:04:34,830 --> 00:04:38,219 Peter Petroulas: Well, the real reason was that for 20 years, people 87 00:04:38,220 --> 00:04:40,589 Peter Petroulas: have been trying to find a way to actually optimise 88 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:45,810 Peter Petroulas: the allocations and to be flexible and give the customers 89 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,170 Peter Petroulas: personalisation that allows that automation and they haven't been able 90 00:04:49,170 --> 00:04:52,140 Peter Petroulas: to find it. We were the first people to achieve 91 00:04:52,140 --> 00:04:54,900 Peter Petroulas: that and hence why we were awarded our patent. 92 00:04:55,290 --> 00:04:57,150 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Peter. We'll be back in a minute. 93 00:05:03,150 --> 00:05:05,940 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Peter Petroulas, founder and CEO 94 00:05:05,940 --> 00:05:12,150 Sean Aylmer: of WizButler. Okay. You've been awarded a US patent. We haven't 95 00:05:12,150 --> 00:05:15,239 Sean Aylmer: really talked much on this podcast about patents. It can 96 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,200 Sean Aylmer: be very difficult and time- consuming process to secure one. 97 00:05:19,470 --> 00:05:20,250 Sean Aylmer: How did you do it? 98 00:05:21,270 --> 00:05:23,430 Peter Petroulas: You're right, it is a very difficult and time- consuming 99 00:05:23,430 --> 00:05:28,710 Peter Petroulas: process. We actually lodged our first application back in 2017, so 100 00:05:29,070 --> 00:05:31,560 Peter Petroulas: it actually took us over five years to get it 101 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,229 Peter Petroulas: through. On the steps you need to go through is 102 00:05:34,470 --> 00:05:36,630 Peter Petroulas: first, you've got to prove to them that's a novel 103 00:05:36,630 --> 00:05:39,750 Peter Petroulas: and that no one's ever done it before. Then you've 104 00:05:39,750 --> 00:05:44,100 Peter Petroulas: got to prove that it's inventive. To give the best 105 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:47,760 Peter Petroulas: example of that, if I can say if you take 106 00:05:47,790 --> 00:05:50,789 Peter Petroulas: a group of experts in that area, give them all 107 00:05:51,029 --> 00:05:54,690 Peter Petroulas: the literature that's available, if they can workshop and solve 108 00:05:54,690 --> 00:05:58,950 Peter Petroulas: that problem, well then it's not inventive. Well, one of 109 00:05:58,950 --> 00:06:03,630 Peter Petroulas: the tests is that it cannot be foreseen through a 110 00:06:03,870 --> 00:06:07,860 Peter Petroulas: workshop improvement by the appropriate technical experts. Then the last 111 00:06:07,860 --> 00:06:11,610 Peter Petroulas: thing is it's got to have economic significance apart from 112 00:06:11,730 --> 00:06:16,529 Peter Petroulas: obviously being patentable subject matter. It is quite an involved 113 00:06:16,529 --> 00:06:19,289 Peter Petroulas: step and as we were going through that process, the 114 00:06:19,290 --> 00:06:23,010 Peter Petroulas: patent offices, generally what they do is they do Google 115 00:06:23,010 --> 00:06:26,790 Peter Petroulas: searches and searches through academic papers and universities. If they 116 00:06:26,790 --> 00:06:29,310 Peter Petroulas: find a key word that you've used, they just turn 117 00:06:29,310 --> 00:06:31,770 Peter Petroulas: around, print out all the documents, give them to you, 118 00:06:31,770 --> 00:06:33,239 Peter Petroulas: so you end up with a hundred documents that you 119 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,089 Peter Petroulas: need to go through and then go back to the 120 00:06:36,089 --> 00:06:38,970 Peter Petroulas: patent office and prove to them that what they're saying 121 00:06:38,970 --> 00:06:41,400 Peter Petroulas: is completely different to what you are doing even though 122 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,920 Peter Petroulas: you are using the same key word. Then after you 123 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,010 Peter Petroulas: give them the reply, they come back and do another 124 00:06:47,010 --> 00:06:49,860 Peter Petroulas: search. Then they found another key word and you keep 125 00:06:49,860 --> 00:06:52,830 Peter Petroulas: going through this process and that's the lengthy part and 126 00:06:52,830 --> 00:06:56,279 Peter Petroulas: the costly part to actually prove you're novel and you 127 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:57,029 Peter Petroulas: are inventive. 128 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,779 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now I've got to ask you, Peter Petroulas. You 129 00:07:00,779 --> 00:07:04,349 Sean Aylmer: previously ran the GPO Grand group of restaurants, bars at 130 00:07:04,350 --> 00:07:08,190 Sean Aylmer: 1 Martin Place in Sydney. For people in other parts 131 00:07:08,190 --> 00:07:11,640 Sean Aylmer: of the country, it's a pretty prestigious location. Then you've 132 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:16,260 Sean Aylmer: jumped to dealing with lawyers nonstop for patent. How's that 133 00:07:16,260 --> 00:07:17,040 Sean Aylmer: experience been? 134 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,770 Peter Petroulas: Well, I guess I was in the hospitality because the 135 00:07:22,770 --> 00:07:26,430 Peter Petroulas: enjoyment of seeing people being happy and making people happy 136 00:07:26,430 --> 00:07:31,680 Peter Petroulas: and enjoying customer contact. Then COVID came along and I 137 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,250 Peter Petroulas: guess changed that aspect of it. But we'd actually started 138 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,690 Peter Petroulas: the process of lodging the patent before COVID because we'd 139 00:07:39,690 --> 00:07:44,040 Peter Petroulas: already seen the inefficiencies within those GPO restaurants, where people 140 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,950 Peter Petroulas: were trying to make a booking and then regulars obviously 141 00:07:46,950 --> 00:07:49,560 Peter Petroulas: had my telephone number, so they'd be calling me. Then 142 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,570 Peter Petroulas: I'd be scratching my head saying, " I've got this system 143 00:07:51,930 --> 00:07:54,900 Peter Petroulas: that's not working" and upsetting my customers because now they've 144 00:07:54,900 --> 00:07:57,030 Peter Petroulas: got to make an extra telephone call to me and 145 00:07:57,030 --> 00:07:57,870 Peter Petroulas: ask for a table. 146 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,660 Sean Aylmer: So are you out of the restaurant business? Are you 147 00:08:00,660 --> 00:08:02,370 Sean Aylmer: like a tech entrepreneur now? 148 00:08:02,730 --> 00:08:05,190 Peter Petroulas: Correct. Well, I think you can only be successful doing 149 00:08:05,190 --> 00:08:07,980 Peter Petroulas: one thing at a time and it's a completely different 150 00:08:07,980 --> 00:08:12,510 Peter Petroulas: skill set to run a restaurant than to be focused 151 00:08:12,510 --> 00:08:13,200 Peter Petroulas: in technology. 152 00:08:13,710 --> 00:08:16,680 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So what's the plan now? You'll roll it out 153 00:08:16,710 --> 00:08:19,110 Sean Aylmer: in Australia and the US? Is that right? 154 00:08:19,380 --> 00:08:23,250 Peter Petroulas: Initial plan is to roll it out here first, get 155 00:08:23,250 --> 00:08:27,300 Peter Petroulas: some traction, which should be straightforward. Then as soon as 156 00:08:27,300 --> 00:08:31,860 Peter Petroulas: that's done and the business here's moving along nicely, we'll 157 00:08:31,860 --> 00:08:33,180 Peter Petroulas: move overseas to the US. 158 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,310 Sean Aylmer: Okay. How do you make money from it? 159 00:08:36,270 --> 00:08:40,530 Peter Petroulas: Well, it's a subscription model. What we're talking about is it's 160 00:08:41,220 --> 00:08:43,620 Peter Petroulas: a monthly subscription fee for people to do that is low 161 00:08:43,620 --> 00:08:47,220 Peter Petroulas: and affordable for them, as distinct as trying to gouge them for 162 00:08:47,220 --> 00:08:49,439 Peter Petroulas: the benefits or the savings that they make. 163 00:08:50,070 --> 00:08:57,150 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Okay. I'm totally across what you are doing in 164 00:08:57,150 --> 00:08:59,340 Sean Aylmer: the use of space. It's a very ingenious way of 165 00:08:59,340 --> 00:09:01,020 Sean Aylmer: thinking about it, or from my mind, it is at 166 00:09:01,020 --> 00:09:05,550 Sean Aylmer: least. Are there other add- ons that WizButler can produce 167 00:09:05,550 --> 00:09:06,479 Sean Aylmer: over time, do you think? 168 00:09:06,690 --> 00:09:09,809 Peter Petroulas: Well, we've already produced them. Because we've solved that inventory 169 00:09:09,809 --> 00:09:13,319 Peter Petroulas: problem, then that allows you to go to the next 170 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,920 Peter Petroulas: step, which is the ordering and the payment and the 171 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:21,000 Peter Petroulas: service within the restaurant to actually complete that entire journey. 172 00:09:21,450 --> 00:09:24,809 Peter Petroulas: Our software has actually gone now beyond just the optimization 173 00:09:24,809 --> 00:09:29,069 Peter Petroulas: of the inventory and optimization of the space to complete autonomous 174 00:09:29,070 --> 00:09:32,520 Peter Petroulas: restaurant solution. The other important thing is because we're actually 175 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,330 Peter Petroulas: managing space, we've actually also created the world's first restaurant 176 00:09:36,330 --> 00:09:41,040 Peter Petroulas: yield management system. Where traditionally, if you were traveling to 177 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,429 Peter Petroulas: say, New York and you wanted to sit at a 178 00:09:44,429 --> 00:09:48,480 Peter Petroulas: restaurant having a nice meal overlooking the Empire State Building 179 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,780 Peter Petroulas: or the Statue of Liberty or whatever you wanted to 180 00:09:51,780 --> 00:09:55,710 Peter Petroulas: see, well, you didn't know anybody at that restaurant, how 181 00:09:55,710 --> 00:09:57,929 Peter Petroulas: do you get a table that actually had a view 182 00:09:57,929 --> 00:10:00,150 Peter Petroulas: rather than a table at the back of the restaurant next 183 00:10:00,150 --> 00:10:04,980 Peter Petroulas: to the kitchen door? So now through our system, because 184 00:10:04,980 --> 00:10:09,330 Peter Petroulas: it's a space management system, it actually knows the space. 185 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,360 Peter Petroulas: It understands where it places the tables. It can actually turn 186 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,439 Peter Petroulas: around and allow personalization and the restaurant can turn around, 187 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,650 Peter Petroulas: for example, as happens in other industries like hotels, where 188 00:10:19,830 --> 00:10:21,900 Peter Petroulas: if you want a room with a view, it's a 189 00:10:21,900 --> 00:10:24,929 Peter Petroulas: different price to a room that's facing the back alley. 190 00:10:24,929 --> 00:10:26,910 Peter Petroulas: They can turn around and say, okay, if you want 191 00:10:26,910 --> 00:10:29,730 Peter Petroulas: a table with a view, it's an extra 10% or 192 00:10:29,730 --> 00:10:33,870 Peter Petroulas: it's an extra $ 10 per person. Then what's actually happening 193 00:10:33,870 --> 00:10:37,440 Peter Petroulas: is you're allowing the person to guarantee their experience at 194 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:42,270 Peter Petroulas: the restaurant as distinct to being a hit and miss event. 195 00:10:42,900 --> 00:10:45,390 Sean Aylmer: I love that idea. I love the idea that if 196 00:10:45,390 --> 00:10:48,030 Sean Aylmer: I want something that much, I have to pay for it. 197 00:10:48,900 --> 00:10:51,450 Peter Petroulas: We're not talking about necessarily a large amount of money, 198 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,540 Peter Petroulas: but when you look at the turnover within a restaurant, 199 00:10:54,990 --> 00:10:57,359 Peter Petroulas: and it could have two seatings a night and two 200 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,780 Peter Petroulas: seatings for dinner, that's already four seatings for that table, 201 00:11:00,929 --> 00:11:03,720 Peter Petroulas: it's already an extra $ 10 ahead. It adds up to 202 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,790 Peter Petroulas: a lot of money even though it isn't for the 203 00:11:05,790 --> 00:11:07,050 Peter Petroulas: actual individual customer. 204 00:11:07,350 --> 00:11:10,740 Sean Aylmer: Wow. Peter, you have taught me a lesson in restaurant 205 00:11:10,740 --> 00:11:12,959 Sean Aylmer: management, but also opened my eyes to things that I 206 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,480 Sean Aylmer: had never thought about, space and then the idea of 207 00:11:16,110 --> 00:11:19,950 Sean Aylmer: premium space within restaurants and things like that. Fascinating. 208 00:11:20,130 --> 00:11:23,010 Peter Petroulas: My pleasure. I think it takes you back to real 209 00:11:23,010 --> 00:11:28,860 Peter Petroulas: estate and what's important is location, location, and location. It allows 210 00:11:28,860 --> 00:11:30,510 Peter Petroulas: that to occur within the restaurant environment. 211 00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:33,990 Sean Aylmer: Peter Petroulas, founder and CEO of WizButler, thank you for 212 00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:35,309 Sean Aylmer: talking to Fear and Greed. 213 00:11:36,059 --> 00:11:39,000 Peter Petroulas: My pleasure. Thank you for letting us share our story. 214 00:11:39,660 --> 00:11:41,610 Sean Aylmer: This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Join us 215 00:11:41,610 --> 00:11:44,130 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, 216 00:11:44,130 --> 00:11:47,760 Sean Aylmer: Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.