Speaker 1: Live on Sky News. This is Sharry Good Evening.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Coming up tonight, my exclusive on the road with police
Speaker 3: Strike Force Pearl, set up to investigate the wave of
Speaker 3: terror on our streets.
Speaker 2: I'll bring you that in just a moment.
Speaker 3: Also on the show, China's new version of chat GPT
Speaker 3: Cosfort Taiwan to be returned and at malfunctions when questioned
Speaker 3: on the persecution of the wigas James Patterson would join
Speaker 3: me a bit later, Plus the top secret intelligence the
Speaker 3: CIA holds on the origins of COVID. I'll speak with
Speaker 3: COVID investigator David Asher, and tonight I'll be joined by
Speaker 3: Sophie Ellsworth who'll show us how the world leaders commemorated
Speaker 3: at Ashwitz Berkenal. But first tonight, let's start with this
Speaker 3: very special report. For fifteen months, Australians have been bewildered
Speaker 3: and angry as racism, hatred and violence exploded in our country.
Speaker 3: We've begged politicians and law enforcement for action as the
Speaker 3: fear and the attacks escalated.
Speaker 2: I sat down for an in depth.
Speaker 3: And exclusive interview with New South Wales Police Force Counter
Speaker 3: Terrorism and Special Tactics Commander Assistant Commissioner Mark Walton Strike
Speaker 3: Force Pearl also took me out on the road. Have
Speaker 3: a look at this report and tell me what you
Speaker 3: think about how the police are handling this.
Speaker 2: Here it is.
Speaker 4: We all want to know why this is occurrent.
Speaker 5: We'll catch that.
Speaker 3: Do you concede there should have been action taken that much?
Speaker 3: From the vile threats against Jews at the Opera House,
Speaker 3: to the torching of cars and hate field graffiti in
Speaker 3: Sydney's East to attacks on the homes of Jewish leaders
Speaker 3: and even the firebombing of a childcare center. Assistant Commissioner
Speaker 3: Mark Walton is tasked with bringing this scourge of criminal
Speaker 3: anti semitism in New South Wales under control. Doesn't seem
Speaker 3: to be escalating to you. It started with anti Semitic
Speaker 3: rhetoric on the streets. Now we're seeing vandalism, cars torched,
Speaker 3: even homes threatened.
Speaker 4: We've really seen an escalation since October last year. From
Speaker 4: October October twenty four, yes, there's been a compressed number
Speaker 4: of incidents, which is extremely concerning both to the police
Speaker 4: and the community in the community at large.
Speaker 3: For Australia's Jewish community, the fear being felt now started
Speaker 3: at the Opera House after October seven, compounded by police
Speaker 3: failures to either stop the hate field protest or make
Speaker 3: any arrests. Was it a mistake by New South Wales
Speaker 3: police to let the Palestinian activists freely march on the
Speaker 3: Opera House and chant antisemitic slogans, sprout hatred against Jews,
Speaker 3: and burn Israeli flags on a night that was meant
Speaker 3: to reflect solidarity with the one thy two hundred Israelis
Speaker 3: who'd been killed.
Speaker 4: Yeh, Look, it's really regrettable and I understand why the
Speaker 4: community remain very upset about that occurring. But at short notice,
Speaker 4: when large groups of people occur, sometimes compromises occur in
Speaker 4: the interests of public safety. Yes, absolutely, with the benefit
Speaker 4: of hindsight. Do we want that image of that protest
Speaker 4: happening on the Opera House? Clearly not. But I'm not
Speaker 4: a Monday night quarterback second guessing all the pressures that
Speaker 4: the police were under at short notice to respond what
Speaker 4: was clearly a very volatile event there with that gathering.
Speaker 3: But I think when we look at where this hatred
Speaker 3: started and why the message was sent that antisemitism would
Speaker 3: be tolerated, it did begin that night when there were
Speaker 3: no arrests when there were flags burned, this hatred arose.
Speaker 3: Do you concede there should have been action taken that night?
Speaker 4: We should always act if we have the evidence against
Speaker 4: individuals to prosecute them. We're getting into a job that
Speaker 4: I didn't have direct involvement with or knowledge of. As
Speaker 4: I sit here today, what I can guarantee is through
Speaker 4: my command area who manage the hate and engagement portion
Speaker 4: of the police, every time a passage of information or
Speaker 4: a complaint has come through alleging hate speech symbols, if
Speaker 4: they hadn't automatically triggered action by the police, the coordination
Speaker 4: of the assessment of that information has occurred through my unit.
Speaker 4: It has gone to our operational legal advice area, and
Speaker 4: on each occasion it's been determined that it hasn't met
Speaker 4: the threshold for the law that's applicable.
Speaker 3: So can I just stop you right there though you
Speaker 3: know you're talking about it not meeting the threshold for
Speaker 3: the law, and action can't be taken, no arrest are made.
Speaker 3: But the ultimate picture then is that hate speech has
Speaker 3: been tolerated on the streets of Sydney. As the Premier
Speaker 3: said this week, violence begins with words. Hate speech has
Speaker 3: been tolerated. This should never have happened.
Speaker 4: Words are important. I think the azo DG has often
Speaker 4: said awful but lawful. The police will prosecute when there
Speaker 4: are is sufficient evidence to do.
Speaker 3: So, so the law needs to be changed so that
Speaker 3: you can get the conviction.
Speaker 4: These are really complex legal and political questions.
Speaker 3: But it's not that complex. If someone's chanting hatred towards
Speaker 3: Jews on the streets of Sydney, as they were on
Speaker 3: the steps of the Upper House.
Speaker 2: Where's the Jews? F the Jews?
Speaker 3: This is hate speech and anti semitism. So this has
Speaker 3: been tolerated in Sydney by authorities.
Speaker 2: This was a mistake, surely you can see that.
Speaker 4: I don't agree that we've tolerated it, but by not
Speaker 4: taking action, that is tolerating and taking action where we're
Speaker 4: able to is what we will do.
Speaker 3: Hate speech has been tolerated on the streets of Sydney.
Speaker 3: People who sprout hatred towards Jews haven't been arrested. The
Speaker 3: hate preachers haven't been arrested.
Speaker 4: You talk about words matter and semantics. As a journalist,
Speaker 4: you are well aware of one word can be interpreted
Speaker 4: in many ways depending on the context. And whilst I
Speaker 4: find the things that you're talking about as offensive, they
Speaker 4: need to meet illegals.
Speaker 2: Prayers, the Jews, f the Jews.
Speaker 3: That is hate speech, that is racism, that can't be
Speaker 3: interpreted in any other way.
Speaker 4: I'm not arguing that it's hate speech but doesn't meet
Speaker 4: a criminal threshold for the police to prosecute. That's the
Speaker 4: question police need to determine.
Speaker 3: But then doesn't that need to be changed so that
Speaker 3: racism hasn't become normalized in Sydney, Australia.
Speaker 4: And as I told you earlier, I'll leave that to
Speaker 4: the politicians.
Speaker 3: Strengthening Strike Force Pearl is the result of both police
Speaker 3: action and political pressure to tackle anti Semitism.
Speaker 5: And we got to have a very high policing presence.
Speaker 3: I've been given exclusive access to join the Strikeforce unit
Speaker 3: for the night patrolling the suburbs living in fear of
Speaker 3: more anti Semitic attacks. Superintendent, nice to see you. Nice
Speaker 3: to see you, So tell us where are we headed tonight?
Speaker 5: Tonight we're going out into Sydney and in central Mentillpoltan,
Speaker 5: Sydney and out into Southwest Sydney to have a look
Speaker 5: at the places of worship, businesses, schools, and things like
Speaker 5: that to make sure people are safe.
Speaker 3: So tonight, police officers do have photographs of some perpetrators
Speaker 3: that you're looking for in relation to crimes already committed,
Speaker 3: some of the anti Symitic crimes already committed.
Speaker 5: When you have a look down the alleyways and things,
Speaker 5: if it's the right or yeah, a car, there was
Speaker 5: somebody sitting in the car.
Speaker 2: What's the motivation here?
Speaker 4: Look, I actually think it's a good word to describe
Speaker 4: it is hate. They are career criminals that hate just
Speaker 4: about everything other than themselves. They hate their own lives,
Speaker 4: they hate our way of life, and they act out accordingly.
Speaker 3: Are they doing this of their own volition or are
Speaker 3: they being paid to do it?
Speaker 4: It's unclear. It's likely that there is some influence to
Speaker 4: cause some of these people to carry out these acts,
Speaker 4: and that's an important line of inquiry with our investigation.
Speaker 4: It is the thing that is my priority because quite naturally,
Speaker 4: we all want to know why this is occurring.
Speaker 3: In a way, it does give comfort that police are
Speaker 3: making arrests. Ten people have now been arrested. But you're
Speaker 3: sitting here and saying you have no idea, who's ultimately
Speaker 3: behind it, who's paying them? That is still a serious
Speaker 3: concern if.
Speaker 4: Something's keeping me up at night. It's just that we
Speaker 4: need to try and determine what the motive is. If
Speaker 4: we have people that are coordinating and directing these actions,
Speaker 4: why are they doing that.
Speaker 3: The attack on Alex Rivchin's farmer home, he's a well
Speaker 3: known Jewish community leader. The Premier Chris Mins told me
Speaker 3: this week that he believed that was targeted. Do you
Speaker 3: agree with that and if so, does this mean that
Speaker 3: high profile members of the Jewish community have reason to
Speaker 3: feel concerned for their own security.
Speaker 4: I have little doubt that that was a targeted attack.
Speaker 4: It would be foolish to suggest otherwise.
Speaker 3: So very succinctly is their reason for high profile members
Speaker 3: of the Jewish community not to feel safe.
Speaker 4: It's fair to say everyone should be concerned about what's
Speaker 4: been occurring, and those that have a profile would naturally
Speaker 4: feel more vulnerable.
Speaker 6: We're just meters away from where the recent.
Speaker 7: Dover heights at Tapka, and now the police controlling and
Speaker 7: doing surveillance on the eastern suburbs to make sure that
Speaker 7: there are no more anti Semitic attacks.
Speaker 3: So Superintendent We're in Dover Height, just meters from.
Speaker 2: Here was the attack on Alex Ripchen's former home.
Speaker 3: Polair is doing surveillance in this area and right across
Speaker 3: the decent suburbs. Is that right.
Speaker 5: They've got an amazing capability so when if something happens
Speaker 5: and they're in the sky, they will find them. They
Speaker 5: will direct police to where those people are and we
Speaker 5: will catch them.
Speaker 2: Incredible, so we can feel very safe with this in the.
Speaker 4: Yes, very safe.
Speaker 3: It is positive action from the police and should be welcomed.
Speaker 3: But it comes in stark contrast to the policing of
Speaker 3: many pro Palestinian protests. This one outside the Great Synagogue
Speaker 3: in Sydney was allowed to continue and the only arrest
Speaker 3: was that of a lone pro Israel supporter. How can
Speaker 3: it be that a single Jew is arrested instead of
Speaker 3: the hundreds of aggressive pro Palestinian protesters.
Speaker 4: I'm not involved, nor do I have direct knowledge of those,
Speaker 4: but there's a requirement for police to deal with public safety,
Speaker 4: and I suspect the decision was made in the interest
Speaker 4: of public safety of all the people there, to try
Speaker 4: and avoid an escalation of conflict in those circumstances.
Speaker 2: Morally, that's wrong.
Speaker 3: Isn't it to arrest the single Jew rather than deal
Speaker 3: with the rabid mob.
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Look, cops have got to be practical. They've got to
Speaker 4: make decisions on the spot. They don't have the benefit
Speaker 4: of hindsight and video review and lawyers telling them down
Speaker 4: the track.
Speaker 3: But you don't need all of that to see that
Speaker 3: there's an angry mob chanting hateful things and one Jew
Speaker 3: holding an Israeli flat.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Look, I think I've said enough on the one.
Speaker 3: We're here outside Marubra Synagogue, which is just down the
Speaker 3: road from the childcare center that was firebombed a week ago,
Speaker 3: and this is now an area where police are focusing on.
Speaker 3: They're doing regular surveillance to make sure everything's safe. This
Speaker 3: is a wave of domestic terror, isn't it.
Speaker 4: Look it's terror, but is it terrorism? So everything that
Speaker 4: we investigate, we gather the evidence, and if there's a
Speaker 4: potential for terrorism charges, they will be considered and prosecuted.
Speaker 3: Have any of the instances so far the anti Semitic
Speaker 3: attacks been labeled by police terrorism offenses?
Speaker 6: Why?
Speaker 4: Because, as I've said, we need the evidence to meet
Speaker 4: the standards. The proofs that are involved in those terrorism offenses.
Speaker 3: The Jewish community is being terrorized. There is an ideological
Speaker 3: element to it. The graffiti that's anti Semitic, the swastik
Speaker 3: is So why isn't it being considered terrorism offensive?
Speaker 4: I didn't say it wasn't being I'm saying it's terror.
Speaker 4: But we then it's another thing to move to a
Speaker 4: terrorism offense.
Speaker 3: In terms of sentencing, we saw a judge give a
Speaker 3: ten month sentence for one of the perpetrators of the
Speaker 3: bondei Arsen attack. It must be very disappointing for you
Speaker 3: when police got the effort of tracking down these people
Speaker 3: only to have a light ten month sentence.
Speaker 4: I probably have a much firm of you on on
Speaker 4: how we should punish and deter then what we often
Speaker 4: see as an outcome.
Speaker 3: So we're at a Jewish school, Now, what sort of
Speaker 3: things do you look for?
Speaker 9: Any abnormality, anything out of the ordinary, especially people hanging around,
Speaker 9: suspecious cars, vehicles, stuff like that, and also just looking
Speaker 9: into the venue to see of anything out of the
Speaker 9: ordinary that's in there.
Speaker 3: I mean, while we've just been standing here, I've seen
Speaker 3: two police cars drive past. So it does give you
Speaker 3: a lot of confidence that there are police on the
Speaker 3: street patrolling the areas at the moment.
Speaker 9: Yeah, definitely one hundred percent. Where tart to these areas
Speaker 9: a lot. So you know, just maintain that public safety
Speaker 9: and give the community bit of resurances that they're out there.
Speaker 3: We just want to go back to the broader concept again.
Speaker 3: If the premiere has said that the violence begins with words,
Speaker 3: if you've acknowledged the same, we all acknowledge people don't
Speaker 3: immediately commit a violent attack begins with words, It begins
Speaker 3: with a feeling of anger towards the Jewish community.
Speaker 2: Then instead of police stepping.
Speaker 3: In when it's escalated to the point where there's a
Speaker 3: wave of violent attacks across the city, wouldn't it be
Speaker 3: better to nip it in the bud right at.
Speaker 4: The start, so long as we have an appropriate offense
Speaker 4: to deal with. And look, I'm know constitutional lawyer at all,
Speaker 4: but a foundation of the Australian constitution is a freedom
Speaker 4: of speech. And I think this is where it becomes
Speaker 4: very complex that things that are being said, some people
Speaker 4: will say they have a right to express an opinion.
Speaker 4: You and I might find that offensive and others may not.
Speaker 4: It's the law, the league, the whole legal system that
Speaker 4: we need to need to rely upon and if the
Speaker 4: law needs to change. The premiers on record as to
Speaker 4: considering that.
Speaker 3: It's clear police are putting enormous resources into fighting this
Speaker 3: wave of violent crime targeted at.
Speaker 2: The Jewish community.
Speaker 3: They're doing it from the air, on the ground, foot,
Speaker 3: patrols taking every effort.
Speaker 2: To try and keep the community safe.
Speaker 3: The police are throwing resources at it, and yet still
Speaker 3: the attacks are happening. We had two in the past week.
Speaker 3: What's your message to everyone.
Speaker 4: We're locking them up, We're coming to get them and
Speaker 4: we will. We will resolve this current threat.
Speaker 6: All right.
Speaker 3: Well, Shadow Home Affairs Minister James Patterson is on my
Speaker 3: show tonight and I'm going to speak to him about
Speaker 3: what we just saw about the messages we heard.
Speaker 10: From the police.
Speaker 3: Are they doing enough? Does he think the law needs
Speaker 3: to change? So his reaction is coming up. And also
Speaker 3: on the show tonight, Don't Forget COVID Investigator, a top
Speaker 3: COVID investigator for the US State Department. He details what
Speaker 3: type of top secret intelligence the CIA has in its possession.
Speaker 3: That's all to come, but first I want to turn
Speaker 3: to a story that made Global News today Deep Seek
Speaker 3: Now the space race between Russia and America defined the sixties.
Speaker 2: Now it's the.
Speaker 3: AI tech race which will define the next decade. And
Speaker 3: this time there was between China and America. There's been
Speaker 3: a global frenzy today as a Chinese artificial intelligence company
Speaker 3: became the most downloaded free app on Apple's iPhone store
Speaker 3: in the US. It's called deep Seek and basically it's
Speaker 3: the Chinese version of chat GPT, and if you believe
Speaker 3: the hype, which is almost certainly exaggerated, it's faster and
Speaker 3: cheaper and even better than similar American AI tech. Now.
Speaker 3: President Donald Trump today said this is a wake up
Speaker 3: call for America can tech.
Speaker 11: The release of deep Seek AI from a Chinese company
Speaker 11: should be a wake up call for our industries that
Speaker 11: we need to be laser focused on competing to win
Speaker 11: because we have the greatest scientists in the world. Even
Speaker 11: Chinese leadership told me that, well, this is very unusual
Speaker 11: when you hear a deep Seek, when you hear somebody
Speaker 11: come up with something. We always have the ideas, we're
Speaker 11: always first.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is big news, and it's not only a
Speaker 3: wake up call for the tech sector, but there's a
Speaker 3: whole can of worms about what's being censored on this
Speaker 3: app that, as I said, is now number one in
Speaker 3: the US. Our sky News digital team has revealed that
Speaker 3: the AI deep Seek malfunctioned when asked about the persecuted
Speaker 3: minority group the Wigas, which China forces into slave labor,
Speaker 3: and Deep Seak also gave an initial answer about the
Speaker 3: group's history where they spoke about its culture and they
Speaker 3: did admit controversies surrounding the Chinese government's treatment of the Wigas, and.
Speaker 10: That's what you're seeing on the screen now.
Speaker 3: But then it scrapped that answer completely and it asked
Speaker 3: the user to search for something else. So the message
Speaker 3: that came up was sorry, that's beyond my current scope.
Speaker 10: Let's talk about something else.
Speaker 3: That's about the Wigas extraordinary, that is real censorship now.
Speaker 2: Then deep seek.
Speaker 3: App was also asked by our Sky News digital journalists
Speaker 3: about Australian journalist Cheng Lay. She's now my colleague here
Speaker 3: at Sky News. She was imprisoned in China on bogus
Speaker 3: spying charges before she was released back to her family
Speaker 3: last year. But when asked about her, Deep Seek said,
Speaker 3: and I'm quoting now. As of my last update in
Speaker 3: October twenty twenty three, there has been no official confirmation of.
Speaker 10: Cheng Lei's release.
Speaker 3: And when Deep Seak was asked whether Taiwan is independent,
Speaker 3: the app said, and I'm quoting here, any discourse on
Speaker 3: Taiwan's independence is a serious challenge to China's sovereignty and
Speaker 3: territorial integrity, and it will not be recognized by the
Speaker 3: international community. And as you know, there are concerns that
Speaker 3: China is planning to invade Taiwan in the coming years.
Speaker 3: So this app, along with the Chinese Ai tech space,
Speaker 3: and as it continues to get bigger and explode, there
Speaker 3: are going to be serious concerns about censorship and free
Speaker 3: speech because it is being used by Americans.
Speaker 10: Now.
Speaker 3: The news of Deep six surge shocked America, especially the
Speaker 3: business sector. And have a look at the impact it
Speaker 3: had on the closest US rival, Navidia, which was the
Speaker 3: most valuable company on America's stock market just.
Speaker 2: A day ago.
Speaker 12: Its value plunged of almost seventeen percent. About one trillion
Speaker 12: Aussie dollars was wiped off the value of Nvidia, or
Speaker 12: six hundred billion US dollars. And just for context, BHP
Speaker 12: is worth two hundred billion Aussie dollars, So it's the
Speaker 12: equivalent of five bhps just wiped out in a couple
Speaker 12: of hours of trading on the Nasdaq Exchange. It's all
Speaker 12: due to this new Chinese AI at chatbot called deep Seek,
Speaker 12: which was kicked off on the tenth of January, and
Speaker 12: it's now gone through a couple of different phases and
Speaker 12: is becoming very popular in America.
Speaker 3: So all in all, the Nasdaq index closed three percent lower,
Speaker 3: and in Australia our tech sector was hit as well,
Speaker 3: with some stocks falling by up to ten percent. Now,
Speaker 3: this Chinese tech deep Seek has been created by a
Speaker 3: genius described in Metea articles today as a nerdy billionaire with.
Speaker 2: A terrible hairstyle.
Speaker 3: Deep Seiek's founder, Liang wen Fang, has become somewhat of
Speaker 3: a hero in China. Deep Seek supposedly created its own
Speaker 3: an AI assistant for a far lower price, in a
Speaker 3: shorter timeframe and with fewer chips. Now these chips are
Speaker 3: powerful AI chips that are used to operate AI, and
Speaker 3: the claim is that deep Seek's AI model can.
Speaker 2: Even rationalize and reason better.
Speaker 6: Deep Seek is.
Speaker 13: The brainchild of a small group of researchers working for
Speaker 13: a Chinese head fund manager that have been able to
Speaker 13: produce technology that is on par with Open Ai and Google,
Speaker 13: even though those companies are sinking billions of dollars and
Speaker 13: years into development.
Speaker 6: Meanwhile, Deep Seak.
Speaker 2: Did it for cheaper.
Speaker 13: This is an AI model that reasons so it can
Speaker 13: do complex problem solving. It thinks through the problem essentially.
Speaker 3: So deep Seak claims it only uses two hundred and
Speaker 3: fifty chips. Eat On mascas question this, and of course
Speaker 3: we should all be skeptical about China's transparency, and we
Speaker 3: know that America had been trying to put strangleholds on
Speaker 3: chips and other technology being exported to China. Now, Trump's
Speaker 3: own tech guru, David sachs you might listen.
Speaker 2: To his podcast.
Speaker 3: He says AI is going to get even more competitive
Speaker 3: between countries, and Mark Andreson warns that this is AI's
Speaker 3: Sputnik moment, in reference to the Soviet Union's nineteen fifty
Speaker 3: seven Earth satellite launch that shocked America. In AI, China
Speaker 3: has shown that it does intend to be a serious player.
Speaker 3: There were already concerns about the risks of AI just
Speaker 3: under control of the West. Now having an nefarious player
Speaker 3: like China involved in the AI race It's just another
Speaker 3: thing to worry about.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: Still to come on the show, the CIA admits the
Speaker 3: pandemic was caused by a likely lab league. What intelligence
Speaker 3: might now be declassified. I'll speak about this with a
Speaker 3: top CO investigator and shutout Home Affairs Minister James Patterson
Speaker 3: will give his reaction to where the police are doing enough,
Speaker 3: and we'll talk about reports that Trump is set to
Speaker 3: meet with Benjamin Nettiyaho. That's after this quick break.
Speaker 2: Welcome back. Well, there have been media reports.
Speaker 3: This evening that Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanya, who is
Speaker 3: expected to meet with President Donald Trump as early.
Speaker 2: As next week.
Speaker 3: This is a start contrast with our own Prime Minister
Speaker 3: Anthony Albernizi, who was one of the only world leaders
Speaker 3: who didn't bother to visit Israel in solidarity after October seven.
Speaker 3: This also comes amid very sad news that eight of
Speaker 3: the remaining twenty six hostages who are slated to be
Speaker 3: released as part of the first phase of this hostage
Speaker 3: deal are dead.
Speaker 2: Eight are dead.
Speaker 3: Now I've told you a couple of times before. The
Speaker 3: Israel believes that Mom Scheri Bibas and her two beautiful
Speaker 3: children Kifir and Ariel are no longer alive.
Speaker 10: Well.
Speaker 3: The IDF has now publicly said that they have grave
Speaker 3: fears for the Bibas family.
Speaker 1: Sheri Beavus and her two children, and Arielle, who's will
Speaker 1: for we are extremely concerned about.
Speaker 2: It's beyond words.
Speaker 3: The families of the eight hostages who have been killed, well,
Speaker 3: they have been informed they do know if their loved
Speaker 3: ones are not alive, but they have been told to
Speaker 3: keep this information confidential. And our hearts, all of us,
Speaker 3: everyone watching, our hearts all go out to them and
Speaker 3: to all of the hostages who are still in captivity.
Speaker 3: We think of them every single day, multiple times a day.
Speaker 3: I've thought of Kafir and Ariel, and you know, as
Speaker 3: a mum, you just can't imagine how a baby could
Speaker 3: have been dragged away by terrorists and if it's true,
Speaker 3: if what Israel believes is true, had his whole life
Speaker 3: ahead of him, just a baby. We're joining me now,
Speaker 3: is Shadow Home Affairs Minister James Patterson. James, thank you
Speaker 3: so much for your time.
Speaker 2: Look, I want to get to all the other topics,
Speaker 2: but I just want.
Speaker 10: To get your reaction to that.
Speaker 2: First of all.
Speaker 3: You know, we see the hostages being paraded around by Hermas,
Speaker 3: terrorists and Gaza. Every time there's a release, you know,
Speaker 3: the crowds come out like it's some tourist day out.
Speaker 3: They're taking photographs. I mean, and what we have here
Speaker 3: is an innocent family, if these reports are true, a
Speaker 3: mother and her two beautiful children. Israel has said publicly
Speaker 3: grave fears for their safety. James, what's your reaction to
Speaker 3: what we're seeing publicly unfold?
Speaker 1: Shary?
Speaker 14: This is yet more evidence of the total moral depravity
Speaker 14: of Hamas and why they can never be a partner
Speaker 14: for peace for Israel. As long as Hamas remains intact,
Speaker 14: and as long as they remain in charge of the
Speaker 14: Gaza strip and the people who live there, then peace
Speaker 14: is going to elude that region and all of us.
Speaker 1: And it highlights exactly why Israel.
Speaker 14: Has had to make the very difficult decisions that it
Speaker 14: has to first prosecute this war against Hamas in Gaza,
Speaker 14: to try and eliminate Hamas and its leadership, and now
Speaker 14: to engage in the most extraordinary and difficult moral dilemmas
Speaker 14: in negotiating with the terrorist organization to free the remaining
Speaker 14: hostages who may still be alive. It's remarkable any of
Speaker 14: them are alive given the conditions that they've endured now
Speaker 14: for over a year. And it is tragic but unsurprising
Speaker 14: that babies who are kidnapped by Hamas on the seventh
Speaker 14: of October have not been able to survive that ordeal.
Speaker 14: If indeed THEOSE reports are correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just terrible.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine what a nine month old baby and
Speaker 3: his four year old brother, what their life was like
Speaker 3: in those dark tunnels. It's absolutely disgusting. I can't believe
Speaker 3: we haven't heard more of a global outcry over this.
Speaker 3: That silence is unforgivable from all of those international organizations
Speaker 3: that claim to be humanitarian. James just back to Benjaminette
Speaker 3: and Yaw who we're hearing reports that he is expected
Speaker 3: to meet with Donald Trump early next week. He could,
Speaker 3: in fact be the first foreign leader to meet with
Speaker 3: Trump since his inauguration. After overturning the ban on weapons
Speaker 3: that was imposed by Joe Biden. This meeting is yet
Speaker 3: another strong signal that under the Trump administration, Israel will
Speaker 3: have a firm friend in America.
Speaker 14: You're right, Chariot would be an enormously significant development If
Speaker 14: President Trump does make his first leader post his ignoration
Speaker 14: to meet with benjaminitt Yahu. It will be yet another
Speaker 14: signal from the Trump administration about how strongly they support
Speaker 14: the State of Israel and how they will back them
Speaker 14: in their fight against terrorists and those who sponsored those terrorists,
Speaker 14: including the Islamic Republic of Iran. And it will demonstrate
Speaker 14: if you look across the nominations that the Trump administration
Speaker 14: has made in the national security space, they may disagree
Speaker 14: on some issues, but the one thing they united on
Speaker 14: is Israel. And I do worry about relations between Australia
Speaker 14: and the United States. Given that the Albanesi governments, and
Speaker 14: particularly under Foreign Minister Penny Wong, wasn't even able to
Speaker 14: line up with the Biden administration on questions of Middle
Speaker 14: East policy and foreign policy, How on earth are they
Speaker 14: going to line up with the Trump administration and what
Speaker 14: consequences will that have for our bilateral relationship with our
Speaker 14: most important AI Exactly.
Speaker 3: I mean the Australia US relationship would be much better
Speaker 3: served when there are like minded leaders, and that would
Speaker 3: happen under Peter Dutton. Now you just watched my report
Speaker 3: on the police handling of the anti Semitism crisis in
Speaker 3: New South Wales different to Victoria. The Assistant Commissioner Mark
Speaker 3: Walton defended the fact that no one has been arrested
Speaker 3: for hate speech, including none of the hate preachers.
Speaker 2: Now, James, we just marked.
Speaker 3: Holocaust Remembrance Day, and isn't the lesson that the Holocaust
Speaker 3: didn't start with gas chambers. It started with racism, with words.
Speaker 2: With exclusion of Jews.
Speaker 3: So do you think there needs to be a different
Speaker 3: approach from law enforcement.
Speaker 14: Sure, there very clearly does need to be a different
Speaker 14: approach from law enforcement at the state and federal level.
Speaker 14: I give you Supwal's police credit for some things. It
Speaker 14: is clear that they are now starting to put significant
Speaker 14: resources behind Operation Perl. It's clear that they are now
Speaker 14: starting to make some arrests, and it is clear that
Speaker 14: they now realize that their initial response after the Sydney
Speaker 14: opera house and other incidents was inadequate. And frankly I
Speaker 14: give them some credit for that because when I put
Speaker 14: similar questions to the federal police that you put to
Speaker 14: New South Wales Police, they were unwilling to concede any
Speaker 14: errors at all, let alone Victoria police, who have dismally
Speaker 14: failed in achieving any arrests. But really the burdenless rests
Speaker 14: not with police to do the best they can within
Speaker 14: the laws that they have. The burden less rest with
Speaker 14: political leaders. It is up to us to make our
Speaker 14: laws appropriate to capture this conduct, and is up to
Speaker 14: us to make our expectations clear to police about what
Speaker 14: should and should not be a priority and where resources
Speaker 14: should be put. And it is very clear, particularly at
Speaker 14: the federal level, but also at the state level, that
Speaker 14: that political leadership has been totally absent from the last
Speaker 14: fifteen months and from our Prime Minister down. Weakness and
Speaker 14: equivocation has been the order of the day rather than
Speaker 14: strength and moral clarity.
Speaker 1: And that is why we're in the mess that we're in.
Speaker 2: Today one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: And if police are saying, as they appeared to be
Speaker 3: saying in the interview I did, that they need stronger
Speaker 3: laws to make arrests to have conviction stick, then the
Speaker 3: politicians have to give that to them now. James Sarah Schwartz,
Speaker 3: this is the woman at the center of that awful,
Speaker 3: highly offensive Dutan's jew rant at Qut Well. She's today
Speaker 3: had an article published in The Guardian where she writes
Speaker 3: nonsense that the Coalition has.
Speaker 2: I don't even want.
Speaker 3: To read out you what she's said because it's just
Speaker 3: more of her nonsense.
Speaker 10: But James, my question to you is, firstly.
Speaker 3: How can the Guardian publish more rubbish from someone who
Speaker 3: is broadcast already such highly offensive material about Jews and
Speaker 3: who clearly doesn't represent the vast majority of the Jewish population.
Speaker 14: Well, so if we outlawed news publications publishing bad op ads,
Speaker 14: there'd be more than just The Guardian going out of
Speaker 14: business in Australia, I'm afraid. But when it comes to
Speaker 14: combating anti Semitism, Sarah Schwartz and the Jewish Council of
Speaker 14: Australia are the last people that the Coalition will be
Speaker 14: going for.
Speaker 1: For public policy advice.
Speaker 14: Because she Schortz thought it was appropriate in the middle
Speaker 14: of an anti Semitic terror crisis, when cars and homes
Speaker 14: and shops and synagogues are being firebombed, to stand up
Speaker 14: in front of an audience and mock her fellow Jews
Speaker 14: because of their political beliefs or supposed political beliefs. You're right,
Speaker 14: this is an unrepresentative, self appointed organization. Even many progressive
Speaker 14: Jews have told me that they don't feel represented by
Speaker 14: the Jewish Council Australia or Sarah Swartz, and so the
Speaker 14: Coalition will be writing relying on the mainstream representative Jewish
Speaker 14: community organizations who have the authority and the mandate to
Speaker 14: speak for their community and have done so for decades,
Speaker 14: rather than these self appointed leaders. I think the ABC
Speaker 14: does need to reflect on why they have given the
Speaker 14: Jewish Council Australia and Sarah Swarts such a platform over
Speaker 14: the last few months, when, as you say, it's very
Speaker 14: difficult to find anyone who believes that they actually represent
Speaker 14: the Jewish community in Australia.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. James Patterson, you are always spot on.
Speaker 3: Really appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Now still
Speaker 3: to come, the moving stories of survival and loss, the
Speaker 3: ominous warnings from the Holocaust. Sophie Elsworth will join me
Speaker 3: a bit later, but first, a COVID investigator reveals the
Speaker 3: type of top secret intelligence held by the.
Speaker 2: CIA on the Wuhan Lab.
Speaker 10: That's after this quick break.
Speaker 2: Welcome back.
Speaker 3: As we spoke about on the show last night, the
Speaker 3: CIA has changed its position on the origin of COVID.
Speaker 3: It's sat on the fence for five years but now
Speaker 3: the Intel Agency concludes it's.
Speaker 10: A likely lableak.
Speaker 3: Now, this is an assessment they were obliged by law
Speaker 3: to make public, but they never did. It took new
Speaker 3: CIA director John Ratcliffe on day one in the job
Speaker 3: to force this assessment into the public domain. I spoke
Speaker 3: about all of this with the former head COVID investigator
Speaker 3: at the US State Department, David Asher earlier. David Asher,
Speaker 3: thank you so much for your time. The CIA has
Speaker 3: come out and said, in all likelihood, this was a
Speaker 3: lab leak. This was an assessment done under the Biden administration,
Speaker 3: yet it wasn't released. Do you think we've seen ideology
Speaker 3: get in the way of intelligence agencies actually coming out
Speaker 3: with the facts.
Speaker 15: I don't believe the CIA ever believed it was I don't. First,
Speaker 15: I don't think they really believe it's no confidence. Secondly,
Speaker 15: I don't think the actual operations people that actually collect
Speaker 15: intelligence ever believed that this wasn't a lablique. This was
Speaker 15: a bunch of analysts who were encouraged, some people say
Speaker 15: almost bribed. I don't think that's how it works. They
Speaker 15: were giving performance bonuses for having ridden an assessment that
Speaker 15: was basically indecisive at the very end, they having blown
Speaker 15: the whistle about five analysts, my understanding, went to US
Speaker 15: Capitol Hill and closed session in the Senate Intelligence Committee
Speaker 15: and testified they'd been politically pressured. So I don't know
Speaker 15: the true truth on that. I don't know the analysts,
Speaker 15: but I do know the facts that we had five
Speaker 15: years ago, and we had a clear enough picture back
Speaker 15: then to have a moderate confidence. I don't know what
Speaker 15: the heck happened along the.
Speaker 3: Way, David, do you think the Trump administration should now
Speaker 3: be declassifying all intelligence that doesn't compromise human sources relating
Speaker 3: to the origin of COVID nineteen.
Speaker 15: Well, that's the law. I mean. Biden signed the law
Speaker 15: to do that, the Congress passed it. Nothing happened, I mean,
Speaker 15: which is another indication how much Biden was in the
Speaker 15: pocket of the Chinese government, something I've been writing about recently.
Speaker 15: His financial interests with the Chinese are far greater than
Speaker 15: anyone ever understood, and I think there's going to be
Speaker 15: some sort of Department of Justice investigation related to that
Speaker 15: as well. There is a Congressional investigation going on. But
Speaker 15: I never thought the intel picture is perfect based on
Speaker 15: human intelligence, which is what the CIA has, but it
Speaker 15: was reasonably clear a based on the reaction so senior
Speaker 15: Chinese leaders that something terrible had gone wrong inside Wuhan,
Speaker 15: specifically inside on Institute Virology, and perhaps also the Wuhan
Speaker 15: University and the CDC they shared certain programs together. We
Speaker 15: don't there are things we don't know, but based on
Speaker 15: what the CIA has come out with, I think there
Speaker 15: will be much more coming out directly. Director Ratcliffe, who
Speaker 15: you've interviewed previously, is an adamant about declassifying information or
Speaker 15: releasing information that actually it is already declassified. And then
Speaker 15: the big question is going to be signals intelligence and
Speaker 15: how much of that gets makes its way out. Just
Speaker 15: trust me, there was a lot of it.
Speaker 3: What do you mean when you say signals intelligence that
Speaker 3: hasn't come out yet?
Speaker 15: Just picking up phone calls, picking up emails, things like that,
Speaker 15: stuff that we do every day, just messages between different
Speaker 15: people that can't comment on what they are. But it's
Speaker 15: no secret we do this most of our much of
Speaker 15: our collections. It's actually done in all Australia as you know,
Speaker 15: so your government is fully aware, which is another reason
Speaker 15: why it really puzzled and dismayed that the Australian government,
Speaker 15: which has the same information on the sitiand level as
Speaker 15: we do, has been so passive, especially given the fact
Speaker 15: that your Prime minister originally came out and said that
Speaker 15: we had to have an investigation. It's just sort of pathetic.
Speaker 4: Yes, me.
Speaker 3: Well, it's been a change of government and the current
Speaker 3: government is pathetic. They don't care about this issue and
Speaker 3: they would never say anything to upset China even remotely.
Speaker 15: It makes two of them, and in case of the
Speaker 15: Biden administration in them, and that's a sign that we've
Speaker 15: been compromised at the highest levels exactly.
Speaker 3: Just finally, Anthony Fauci, he's been preemptively pardoned by Joe Biden.
Speaker 3: How angry does this make you? And what does Fauci
Speaker 3: still need to answer for?
Speaker 15: What does he still need to answer for? Well, why
Speaker 15: he lied to Congress like twelve times, that'd be the
Speaker 15: first thing he has the answer for. Uh, he won't
Speaker 15: be charged criminally easily. At least there is some question
Speaker 15: that he could be made an accessory to what it's
Speaker 15: called a racket racketeering charge, which is what they use
Speaker 15: against the mob primarily and drug cartels. There was a
Speaker 15: racket between him and Francis Collins and the scientists that
Speaker 15: you reported on so incredibly like Christian Anderson and Ralph
Speaker 15: Barrick to to to engage in a cover up, and
Speaker 15: I think that that makes me angry that he would
Speaker 15: be involved in the cover up. It's a totally outrageous,
Speaker 15: unscientific thing. But Francis Collins was directly involved in that
Speaker 15: head of the National Instutse of Health, Fauchi's boss, and
Speaker 15: he was not parted. So there's still grounds for action here,
Speaker 15: and I hope it happens. These people need to be
Speaker 15: helped held to task what they did uh their if
Speaker 15: their failures helped the Chinese get away with bloody murder globally.
Speaker 10: It's utterly outrageous.
Speaker 6: David.
Speaker 3: Your work has been incredible over the last five years,
Speaker 3: and I hope it will continue under the Trump administration
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 15: I hope so too. I'm certainly offering up my help
Speaker 15: to them, and so far it's been so good. So
Speaker 15: we'll see. We'll see what happens if I come formally
Speaker 15: back in the government. I haven't made a decision. I
Speaker 15: do have some opportunities to do so.
Speaker 3: All right, And that was quite actually really fascinating big
Speaker 3: news there. David Asher just said, and he was one
Speaker 3: of the top investigators. He uncovered the intelligence related to
Speaker 3: the Wuhan researchers who were the first cluster.
Speaker 2: Of the pandemic.
Speaker 3: And he's there saying that Australia collected signals intelligence crucial
Speaker 3: to this origin.
Speaker 2: So there you go, all right.
Speaker 3: After the break, we'll cross to Poland, where journalist Sophie
Speaker 3: Ellsworth has been at the eightieth anniversary of Ashwitz's liberation.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned.
Speaker 3: Survivors of the horror death camp Auschwitz have spoken about
Speaker 3: the global rise in anti Semitism at the eightieth liberation
Speaker 3: remembrance service, and they've warned that it's the same hatred
Speaker 3: that led to the Holocaust in the first place. Among
Speaker 3: the audience were world leaders, royals, politicians and seventy eight
Speaker 3: global television networks. Not however, the ABC or SBS News
Speaker 3: Corps Europe correspondent Sophie Ellsworth was there and I spoke
Speaker 3: to her a little earlier about what it was like
Speaker 3: to be on the ground for such a moving and
Speaker 3: solemn event. Here she is, Sophie Elsworth. Thank you so
Speaker 3: much for joining us. Can you tell us a bit
Speaker 3: about what the commemorations have been like on the ground.
Speaker 6: Yeah, great to be with you, Sharry.
Speaker 16: Look an incredibly emotional moving ceremony here.
Speaker 6: That was yesterday here in Poland.
Speaker 16: We have dignitaries, world leaders, royals, many Holocaust survivors.
Speaker 6: The service lasted about two hours.
Speaker 16: Very horroring stories, two difficult, really, Sharriers.
Speaker 6: We all know to comprehend.
Speaker 16: But it wasn't a very incredible experience to be here
Speaker 16: on the ground and to hear these horrifying tragedies that
Speaker 16: so many people went through. And reminding people, Sharry, what
Speaker 16: did happen here in World War Two? And making sure
Speaker 16: that we do not forget what happened.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we know that too many people, especially young people,
Speaker 3: don't know much at all about the.
Speaker 2: Holocaust, Sophie.
Speaker 3: Three of the Holocaust survivors gave really moving speeches, not
Speaker 3: only about their own personal stories, but they also spoke
Speaker 3: about the rise in anti Semitism.
Speaker 2: What was their message, Well.
Speaker 6: That was the underlying message here, Shari.
Speaker 16: Wasn't just the tales of the horrors that happened here
Speaker 16: at the Holocaust during the Holocaust. It was also about
Speaker 16: the rise of antisemitism. Across the world, particularly given that
Speaker 16: we have the conflict in the Middle East, and the
Speaker 16: message was that antisemitism must be stamped out. That was
Speaker 16: the real takeaway from this, that moving beyond the commemoration,
Speaker 16: that the atrocities that happened here at the Holocaust cannot
Speaker 16: be repeated, and that this rise in anti Semitism around
Speaker 16: the world must be stamped out.
Speaker 3: Indeed, and this is the worst humanity has ever seen
Speaker 3: until of course, October seven, and then we saw similar
Speaker 3: acts of atrocities, babies being murdered and killed. But Sophie,
Speaker 3: for you personally walking through the concentration camp where more
Speaker 3: than a million Jews were murdered.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us a bit about what that was
Speaker 2: like for you?
Speaker 16: Well, Sherry, it's just really hard to comprehen and what
Speaker 16: did happen here. We know so much about it, We've
Speaker 16: read so much about it, reminded so much of what
Speaker 16: did happen, But when you're here and seeing it with
Speaker 16: your own eyes, it really is difficult to imagine what
Speaker 16: did happen here, but incredibly moving and as you can
Speaker 16: see from behind us, a lot of these sites are
Speaker 16: very preserved, which is important so that people could come
Speaker 16: here and understand what did occur and help them understand
Speaker 16: so that this history is not a raised, this history
Speaker 16: is not forgotten and people remember the atrocities that did
Speaker 16: take place at these concentration and extermination camps are in Europe.
Speaker 3: Alongside the survivors, there were also world leaders who came
Speaker 3: together for this eightieth commemoration of the liberation of Auschwitzer,
Speaker 3: included Ken Charles.
Speaker 10: How did they react.
Speaker 16: Well, like many many people here, Shari, people watching all
Speaker 16: around the world, very emotional. How could you not be?
Speaker 16: These stories are heart wrenching. They're too hard to even comprehend.
Speaker 16: We saw imagery of King Charles the Third very emotional
Speaker 16: during the service. He's the first British monarch to actually
Speaker 16: come here to visit this site, so that was a
Speaker 16: very important moment as well. But you know, there's no
Speaker 16: one that would walk away from here and not have,
Speaker 16: you know, emotions running through them to understand what did
Speaker 16: take place.
Speaker 6: Here and that we must reflect on what happened.
Speaker 16: And as the messaging was at the commemoration service, Sharry,
Speaker 16: atrocities that did take place here during World.
Speaker 6: War two cannot be repeated.
Speaker 2: We know our Foreign Minister Penny Wong was there.
Speaker 3: She's described it as a deeply moving experience. But she's
Speaker 3: been supporting anti Israel policies at the United Nations and
Speaker 3: in international forums. She's been publicly extremely critic of Israel.
Speaker 3: Israel that was born out of the Holocaust, Sophie.
Speaker 6: Well Charry, that's been obviously.
Speaker 16: What has really taken attention away from her visit is
Speaker 16: all the criticism that she has received and as you
Speaker 16: know better than many people, you know, the anger and
Speaker 16: the annoyance and frustration with the Jewish community that she
Speaker 16: was the representative here and that she was perhaps the
Speaker 16: wrong person given her stance on Israel.
Speaker 6: But she was obviously very defensive of that.
Speaker 16: She was here alongside Attorney General Mark Dreyfus, who we
Speaker 16: know is Jewish, and she was saying that they were
Speaker 16: the right members of the government to be here. Prime
Speaker 16: Minister Anthony Albanesi was not here, and many would argue
Speaker 16: he should have been here because there were prime ministers
Speaker 16: and presidents from all around the world here in Poland
Speaker 16: for this very important event.
Speaker 3: Shari, it is indeed, and thank you to you, Sophie
Speaker 3: for covering it so beautifully during the World Week.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
Speaker 10: For joining us.
Speaker 3: And just to end the show tonight, I'm going to
Speaker 3: leave you with the words of what one survivor said
Speaker 3: at the commemoration.
Speaker 8: Our Jewish Christian values have been overshadled worldwide by prejudice, fear,
Speaker 8: suspicion and extremism, and the rampant anti Semitism that is
Speaker 8: spreading among the nations is shocking.
Speaker 2: It is indeed.
Speaker 3: Now, if you missed my report on how the police
Speaker 3: are handling antisemitism, head to the Sky News website otherwise,
Speaker 3: I'll see you.
Speaker 10: Tomorrow at eight. And here's Paul Maray