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Speaker 1: This is a prostate cancer awareness month. Today is World

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Speaker 1: Cancer Research Day and I'm joined from SAMRI, the Prostate

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Speaker 1: Cancer Research Groups lead Professor Lisa Butler. Lisa, good morning, welcome,

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Speaker 1: good morning, Thanks for having us, and you've brought in

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Speaker 1: PhD student Jacob Trung who is obviously with you at

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Speaker 1: SAMUR as well. And Jacob, congratulations. You're here because of

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Speaker 1: a really big breakthrough you have made. Tell us about that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, sir, so well, first of all, thank you for

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Speaker 2: having me. I'm pleasure to be here. So really the

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Speaker 2: focus of my last five years under under supervision by

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Speaker 2: Lisa has been to see if we're able to you know,

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Speaker 2: predict when if patients are going to relapse of prostate cancer.

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Speaker 2: So you know, depending on the severity of disease, when

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Speaker 2: they're diagnosed a common therapist, they'll have their prostate removed

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Speaker 2: and so but after several years, you know, this cancer

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Speaker 2: can come back and it needs further treatment, but at

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Speaker 2: that time it's quite hard to manage. So what we

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Speaker 2: believed is looking at sort of at that point in

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Speaker 2: time of their initial surgery, that's the key to figuring

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Speaker 2: out which patients are going to relapse. And so what

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Speaker 2: my project was actually was to marry two different disciplines.

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Speaker 2: Really it's sort of bi chemistry and analytical chemistry. And look,

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Speaker 2: take a deep dive into the tumors and see, you know,

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Speaker 2: is there anything in the tumors that we can use

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Speaker 2: to predict if a patient in ten fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: Time might relapse? And you found there is.

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Speaker 2: We found some signals, a pattern of certain signals that

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Speaker 2: appear to be strongly associated with the group of men

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Speaker 2: that have relapsed. So we'd actually know this information that

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Speaker 2: their cancer has come back. And that's allow us to

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Speaker 2: actually compare the makeup of the tumors and yes, we

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Speaker 2: found some very distinct pat enough signals.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And with that in the future, I presume you'll

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Speaker 1: be able to predict which men are likely to fall

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Speaker 1: into this category and start treatment before.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely and also prevent treating patients that don't fall

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Speaker 2: into that theory, because prostate cancer therapies are not pleasant

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Speaker 2: for the command. So that's also as such as an

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Speaker 2: indicator we can look and maybe predict what patients. But

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Speaker 2: also it opens up a new range of targets. So

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Speaker 2: if we find that there's a protein, for example, or

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Speaker 2: a network of proteins that are responsible for this, well,

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Speaker 2: then that's therapies, that's potential new therapies.

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Speaker 1: Amazing, Lisa, where do we go with this next? I

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Speaker 1: mean developed here in Adelaide, So that's pretty exciting what

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Speaker 1: happens from here?

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Speaker 3: Oh, look, it's very exciting, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: our next steps are really now to confirm this with

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Speaker 3: other independent groups of patients, both into state and overseas.

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Speaker 3: But I think if it holds up, you know, there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of promise. Firstly as a potential test for

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Speaker 3: patients to make their decisions about treatment right at the

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Speaker 3: time of their diagnosis. Some men might need more intensification

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Speaker 3: of their therapy, but on the other side, we might

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Speaker 3: actually discover some therapies that could be applied more effectively

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Speaker 3: as well. So that's really the excitement of what Jacob's discovered.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. Where are we in the fight against prostate cancer?

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Speaker 1: Because I understand today it's number one cancer detected in Australia.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct?

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Speaker 3: It absolutely is, And it's the most commonly diagnosed cancer

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Speaker 3: in South Australia as well, so almost three hundred South

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Speaker 3: Australian men die still of prostate cancer every.

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Speaker 1: Year on a day almost just under.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So it's you know, these are numbers we still

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Speaker 3: have to battle against. And we've made some huge advances

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Speaker 3: in the last ten to fifteen years. So we've got

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Speaker 3: a lot of therapies now available for men, so they're

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Speaker 3: extending life, which is fantastic, but we still need some

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Speaker 3: more curative options and try and prevent men from getting

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Speaker 3: to these very aggressive later stage cancers.

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Speaker 1: Do we know what causes even in arged prostate even

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Speaker 1: if it's not cancer, I mean, what triggers that it's

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Speaker 1: been there forever? I suppose an issue for men it

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Speaker 1: is a dietary, lifestyle, hereditary.

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Speaker 3: They think there's lots of factors involved. Certainly hormones are

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Speaker 3: a major player. So testosterone with the androgens in men

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Speaker 3: are a major driver of enlarged prostate but also prostate cancer.

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Speaker 3: And so that's the main treatment is trying to suppress

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Speaker 3: those hormones. And that's why, as Jacob said, men generally

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Speaker 3: feel really terrible when they're on these sort of hormonal therapies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah all right, so Jacob, investigate what led you down

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Speaker 1: this path? You were a young man, you probably in

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Speaker 1: your twenty still, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Twenty six. I'm feeling old after five years though, twenty six?

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Speaker 1: How did you get into this field of research? Is there?

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Speaker 2: What's so it's actually quite interesting is that I did

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Speaker 2: my undergrad in biomedical science, so at the University of Adelaide,

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Speaker 2: so i've my training in undergrad is in biology and biochemistry.

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Speaker 2: But once I joined Samary and joined Lisa's group, I

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Speaker 2: actually started to shift into analytical chemistry. I use a

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Speaker 2: technical mass spectrometry. It's very much a fundamental chemistry technique.

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Speaker 2: And so I just kind of now am in this

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Speaker 2: sort of marriage or two disciplines. And I got handed

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Speaker 2: this incredible project by Lisa which has you know, real

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Speaker 2: world applications. So I kind of fell into this, you know,

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Speaker 2: quite luckily, and I've been really blessed ever since.

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Speaker 1: Is that, perhaps, Lisa, you might want to chime in here.

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Speaker 1: Is that something that can lead to a breakthrough. It's

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Speaker 1: getting fresh and eyes to look at something and perhaps

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Speaker 1: somebody who you know is curiously going to explore a

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Speaker 1: different path.

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Speaker 3: Perhaps absolutely, And I think that's why you know, we've

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Speaker 3: been able to make some of these breakthroughs, particularly to

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Speaker 3: place like Samary, where we've got lots of different researchers

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Speaker 3: that all have different expertise, and so you know, Jacob's

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Speaker 3: co supervised by people that have completely different techniques and

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Speaker 3: expertise than I do. And I think that's actually what's

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Speaker 3: made the project go ahead so well. The other reason,

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Speaker 3: I think is because we have a fantastic biobank here

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Speaker 3: in Adelaide where we collect a lot of the prostate

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Speaker 3: tumors from men, and many of the listeners might have

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Speaker 3: actually contributed to the research that Jacob's talking about, because

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Speaker 3: that's enabled us to follow those people, see how they've

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Speaker 3: been going, and then go back and do the deep

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Speaker 3: dive research on those specimens.

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Speaker 1: Do they welcome being contact? I suppose they do. That's

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Speaker 1: why they enlist in the first place.

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Speaker 3: Almost everybody says yes, And that's something we're forever grateful for.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, because you can't do it without that can

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Speaker 1: You've got to go back and check and absolutely do

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Speaker 1: all of that level of research. It would you choker

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Speaker 1: working in the one lab to do all of this too.

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Speaker 1: That must be pretty unique in the one space.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely. I mean, it's just allows me

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Speaker 2: having all of these groups and resources together, It allows

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Speaker 2: me to get the best out of my work, you know,

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Speaker 2: having the expertise from Lisa's side and then my other

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Speaker 2: supervisors from their side, all in the one lab.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it.

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Speaker 2: Is really incredible.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely so Lisa with prostate cancer. For people who may

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Speaker 1: never have had the PSA test, for instance at the doctor,

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Speaker 1: I mean, how early should it has detected earlier and earlier.

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Speaker 1: You think of Will McDonald who's very publicly gone out

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Speaker 1: with this battle against prostate cancer and appears to be

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Speaker 1: on the winning side of that, which is fantastic. But

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Speaker 1: I suppose, like everything, early detection is key.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and so you know, the current recommendations are to

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Speaker 3: be tested approximately every two years after the age of fifty.

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Speaker 3: But I think, you know, Will's story is a good

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Speaker 3: reminder that if you have a strong family history, or

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Speaker 3: if there are any symptoms that you're noticing, is really

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Speaker 3: not to let those things go. Is to make sure

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Speaker 3: you're having those conversations with your doctor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and obviously PSA is the first step, isn't it,

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Speaker 1: And then preps A specialists from there depending on the

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Speaker 1: results away you go.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we have lots more non invasive tests and

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Speaker 3: really state of the art imaging now that really helps

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Speaker 3: give men a lot more information.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So in terms of the research, then this,

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Speaker 1: as you say, will be tested around the world into

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Speaker 1: state everywhere else. Of Jacob's discovery, how do we turn

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Speaker 1: that into potentially a cure? Could it be that long term?

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Speaker 1: Is this the one of the steps in that process?

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Speaker 3: Look, I think you know, with the time course of

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Speaker 3: prostate cancer, if you can intervene early and stop men

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Speaker 3: from getting to that aggressive stage of cancer, then that's

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Speaker 3: going to be absolutely huge in the sense that you know,

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Speaker 3: it's fortunately we have good outcomes for prostate cancer, but

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Speaker 3: those that do have that aggressive form that Jacob has

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Speaker 3: been studying, you know, that's incredibly difficult to treat. So

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Speaker 3: if we can prevent that from coming or treat it

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Speaker 3: better when it does happen, you know, there's a good

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Speaker 3: chance that more men will die with prostate cancer than on.

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Speaker 1: And that's still the case today. Isn't it that men

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Speaker 1: die with it than of it.

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Speaker 3: Well it's a common I think notion. So people think

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Speaker 3: that that's the case, and it probably is the case.

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Speaker 3: But at the moment, we know there's still you know,

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Speaker 3: almost three hundred men doing here every year, and so

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Speaker 3: there's still you know, because it is so prevalent, quite

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Speaker 3: a high number of men that are dying and need

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Speaker 3: better treatments.

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Speaker 1: And the difference between an enlarged prostate and cancer is

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Speaker 1: what just one that isn't a tumor.

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Speaker 3: Yep, that's right. So benign enlargement is really just an

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Speaker 3: overgrowth of the prostate that's not malignant. It's something that

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Speaker 3: often does happen with age, and I think it worries

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Speaker 3: people a lot when they have those sort of symptoms,

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Speaker 3: but in most cases that is a benign change. And

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Speaker 3: so again, you know, just having those regular conversations with

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Speaker 3: your doctor can.

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Speaker 1: Really allay a lot of canny. Yeah, and making sure

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Speaker 1: does it have to be enlarged to become cancer as well?

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Speaker 3: No, no, And I think that's the other thing that

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Speaker 3: people don't always realize, and it can be quite distinct

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Speaker 3: from the PSA. So that's why we have more tests

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Speaker 3: now to really nut out exactly what's going on.

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Speaker 1: That's an interesting word of that's true. There we go.

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Speaker 1: All right. It has been lovely meeting you today, and

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Speaker 1: how wonderful that this work has just done that around

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Speaker 1: the corner from where we are. It's incredible it's amazing,

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Speaker 1: and so much other work done at Samuy too, but

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Speaker 1: prostate cancer is certainly one you get the I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's right to say this, but the fill

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Speaker 1: from the research from breakthroughs like this that the cure

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Speaker 1: is not that far away. Is that a fair comment?

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Speaker 3: I think it is, you know, for most cancers. Actually,

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Speaker 3: we've made huge advances in the last ten to fifteen

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Speaker 3: years in a range of cancers that were thought to

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Speaker 3: really have have major issues in terms of treatment. So

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Speaker 3: melanoma is a great example where you know, the outlook

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Speaker 3: for that is just so much better than it was before. Similarly,

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Speaker 3: with prostate cancer, fifteen years ago, we had very little

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Speaker 3: to offer men who were progressing. Nowadays there's multiple therapies

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Speaker 3: that they can try, and that gives them a lot

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Speaker 3: of options, you know, to extend their life and hopefully,

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Speaker 3: you know, with time, have treatments that give better quality

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Speaker 3: of life as well, because that's important too.

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Speaker 1: All right, Jacob, we're too for you from here. You

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Speaker 1: get the PhD eventually, I suppose. When you're doing I mean,

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Speaker 1: what's happening is.

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Speaker 2: My first goal, that's my that's just the light at

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Speaker 2: the end of the tunne of the moment. But after

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Speaker 2: this I have a post dog. So it's a post

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Speaker 2: doctural opportunity in Belgium actually, really with our collaborators at

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Speaker 2: the University of k Eleven, I'm going up there to

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Speaker 2: set up some new methods and some do some work

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Speaker 2: there on prostate still, yeah, in prostate, but also in

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Speaker 2: other tissue types and cancer models as well.

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Speaker 1: So does your research your study allow you to look

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Speaker 1: at the body across the border? Are you sort of

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Speaker 1: specializing in process?

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Speaker 2: You know, when it comes to the technique that I use,

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Speaker 2: once you can sort of look across that. It's pretty

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Speaker 2: adaptable to other issues. I enjoy looking at sort of

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Speaker 2: cancer related like that type of tissue model though, that's

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Speaker 2: what's most interesting to me. But yeah, the technique can

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Speaker 2: be adapted very easily.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting, isn't it. You say that's what is most

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Speaker 1: to you. It's hard for a lay person to get

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Speaker 1: their head around that, really, like if.

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Speaker 2: It is and I think it's something that you kind

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Speaker 2: of have to stand back and go, well, you know,

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Speaker 2: this is an especialis yeah, But I think it's just

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Speaker 2: because it also has such a real world application and

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Speaker 2: it's a real issue that that's what interests me the most.

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Speaker 1: Amazing. Well good on you and well done here because

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Speaker 1: this is just extraordinary and finding a way to predict

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Speaker 1: which prostate cancer patients are more likely to experience metastic

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Speaker 1: midt to stats you say it metastatic. Thank you. There

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Speaker 1: we go, and that's never been done before, so that

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Speaker 1: is wonderful news. And Lisa, you must be so proud.

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Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, And you know, I think training fantastic young

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Speaker 3: students like Jacob is another really important part of our.

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Speaker 1: Work and keep researchers coming through. Lovely meeting you both,

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Speaker 1: Joseph Drung and Professor Lisa Butler, lead of Prostate Cancer

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Speaker 1: Research Group at Samury just down the road at North Terrace.

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Speaker 1: Wonderful seeing you both in the studio today is part

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Speaker 1: of the World Cancer Research Date to Prostate cancer