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Speaker 1: Welcome to the mentor. I Mark Boris Hans holds watch

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Speaker 1: and Jade Holesbatch. Good morning, Good morning father son, I know,

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Speaker 1: father's son around the other way. Yes, hey, you go on, guys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm good, I'm good. It's great to be here.

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Speaker 1: Well it's as you know, why are you here because

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Speaker 1: your son, who is like a grown man. By the way,

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Speaker 1: he's not a young fellow, or he's very young compared

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Speaker 1: to me. Thank you. And you pulled me up at

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Speaker 1: the airport. I was, I don't know where I've been,

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Speaker 1: but I was walking through the Sydney Airport going towards

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Speaker 1: going to get my car, and he just grabbed me

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Speaker 1: and said, you know, this is the shah blah blah

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Speaker 1: blah said to me a little bit about what his

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Speaker 1: dad was doing, which is you. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: I have to tell you, he's pretty bloody proud of you.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you told me about all the brands you

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Speaker 1: guys have been doing this, don't think me. Thank him.

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Speaker 1: I have been telling me about all the brands you

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Speaker 1: guys looking after and and I thought, shit, I better

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Speaker 1: get you on the show. And I've got the Dynamic

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Speaker 1: jewel on. So you guys run a design business. That's

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Speaker 1: probably the most vanilla explanation of branding business that I've

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Speaker 1: ever that's ever been, ever, ever been made. And of course,

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Speaker 1: just just before the show started, like literally minutes ago,

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Speaker 1: they gave me I don't know, this is the holes

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Speaker 1: Bosh Bible or it's sort of like this is your

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Speaker 1: branding of yourself. To some extent, that's all the stuff

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Speaker 1: you do. And I'm just freaking through that. I got

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Speaker 1: things like Virgin, like big names, like big big names.

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Speaker 1: We're not talking about small jobs. And I want to

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Speaker 1: and I'll come back to who your clients are and

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Speaker 1: in particular to talk about sorts of things you guys

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Speaker 1: have done for them. But can you just take me

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Speaker 1: back a little bit before he was kicking around, what's

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Speaker 1: your background?

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Speaker 2: So my break, Rude, I am a brand designer.

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Speaker 1: From but way way back, way way back in Europe.

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Speaker 2: I'm trained as a brand designer.

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Speaker 1: And what does that mean? The brand design?

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Speaker 2: So a brand designer creates an identity for a company.

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Speaker 2: That's basically what it is, right, But it's not just

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Speaker 2: that it's it's a company. You need to understand that

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Speaker 2: a company is values and aspirations, and that's what we design,

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Speaker 2: and that then that aspirations and those values need to

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Speaker 2: be communicated to an audience, you know, the customers, their

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Speaker 2: potential customers, their employees, now you name it. And then

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Speaker 2: not only that, it needs to stand out from the rest.

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Speaker 2: It needs to be unique, It needs to be simple,

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Speaker 2: It needs to be bold, because you know, there's a

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Speaker 2: zillion identities out there, right, how do you stand out?

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Speaker 2: And that's I'm trained like that and I'm doing it

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Speaker 2: the last forty years.

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Speaker 1: And where do you get where do you get a

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Speaker 1: course on this stuff? What is a course on this?

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Speaker 1: Did you go into a course at UNI or not?

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Speaker 2: Really? No, I didn't. I just I went through well,

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Speaker 2: I went to university in in in the Netherlands for

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Speaker 2: a short time. And then when I got here, I

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Speaker 2: started in advertising and I was hired by a big

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Speaker 2: ad agency as an art director and I started to

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Speaker 2: work on TV campaigns and and and and you know,

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Speaker 2: press ads and brochures and you name it. And you

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Speaker 2: know problem that it was that after after a year,

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Speaker 2: after a couple of years, I realized that advertising agency

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Speaker 2: do ads and they kind of bury the brand somewhere

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Speaker 2: in a jingle or at the end of it. Or

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Speaker 2: at the end of an ad right, and I just

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Speaker 2: should scratched my head right, and I'm going, there's all

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Speaker 2: the wrong way around it. You know. I did brand first,

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Speaker 2: advertising second, and then I realized that no one was

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Speaker 2: doing that in Australia at the time, so I thought, well,

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Speaker 2: bother it, I'm going to do it myself. And that's

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Speaker 2: how it kind of started.

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Speaker 1: If I could just reflect them there for a second,

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Speaker 1: because many years ago, when I'm running my whizz business,

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Speaker 1: we used to do like get a hold of Kerry

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Speaker 1: used to make me do this and because I didn't

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Speaker 1: know how to do it, and he said, look this

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Speaker 1: is and get all these advertising agencies, here's a list,

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Speaker 1: tell them a brief and get them to come and

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Speaker 1: pitch their idea to you. And whichever idea we like

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Speaker 1: the best, that's what will take. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things he used to sort of complain about, a common

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Speaker 1: thread from Kerry was they're not interested in promoting your

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Speaker 1: brand the more inage winning an award. That's what he

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Speaker 1: used to say. So you just say to me, because

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Speaker 1: he said, they're not talking to you to the audience

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Speaker 1: about what it is. We've got to sell what we're

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Speaker 1: trying to do and then to some extent I think

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Speaker 1: that's right. I mean, eventually we always found one agency

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Speaker 1: who was you know, it was not like that, but

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Speaker 1: a lot of times you said, they're more interested in

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Speaker 1: themselves and that that is can be a common complace.

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Speaker 1: It's slightly different day because it's a lot more digital

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Speaker 1: media and all that sort of stuff today. But that's

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Speaker 1: a bit more complex. But are you saying that that's

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Speaker 1: is that what you're saying? Are you saying that you

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Speaker 1: hans decided that agencies were operating this way and that

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Speaker 1: you thought you could do it more more about the

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Speaker 1: brand itself actually execute on an advertising campaign or a

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Speaker 1: campaign whatever it is. That was more true and faithful

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Speaker 1: to the values of the brand.

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Speaker 2: You've got to do one, right, It's exactly like that.

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Speaker 2: There's no there's no egos, there's no bullshit about winning

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Speaker 2: awards and all that that'll come, yeah, you know, but

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Speaker 2: it was all about helping these clients that pay good money. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and you know they want their brand to be out

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Speaker 2: there and and and connect with their audience. Right, That's

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Speaker 2: what that was about. And that's what it's all about.

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Speaker 1: And how did you how did you kick off the

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Speaker 1: business in Australia.

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Speaker 2: So that's a fascinating mate. So you know, I got

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Speaker 2: the idea, and then what do you do with it?

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Speaker 2: You know, you start knocking on doors. Yeah, that's the

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Speaker 2: only way to do it, right, So I'm starting knocking

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Speaker 2: the doors some some clients were interested, but the one

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Speaker 2: that was brutally interested in it was Quantus.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even get to pitch the quantas.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just talking, talking my way in these companies

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Speaker 2: and then and then suddenly I'm sitting in front of

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Speaker 2: the head of marketing and the Jeff Dixon walked in,

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Speaker 2: you know, the CEO at the time, right, and I'm

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Speaker 2: talking away and they go, oh, we neat this guy,

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Speaker 2: hire him. And that was said that and that was it.

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Speaker 2: And then you know, I had that client for over

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Speaker 2: twenty five years, I mean unbelievable, right, And it was

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Speaker 2: all just building that brand, building it, making it better.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they were competing on the global stage and

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Speaker 2: they needed the brand that was really really strong, and

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Speaker 2: I just worked away at it. And the next thing, I'm

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Speaker 2: designing a kangaroo on a on a on an aircraft

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Speaker 2: and it was just spectacular what we did with that

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Speaker 2: client when we went around the world and working on projects,

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Speaker 2: working on all sorts of crazy, crazy things.

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Speaker 1: Can you just like we look at the kangaroo and

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Speaker 1: all of us just take it as it's like we're

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Speaker 1: so used to seeing their kangaroo. But it's like nearly

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Speaker 1: part of aeroplane to some extent, it's part of everything

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Speaker 1: the Corners does. It's one of the most iconic I

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Speaker 1: don't know what you call a trademark whatever it is

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Speaker 1: that that exists in Australia, but that kangaroo has a

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Speaker 1: certain shape and obviously it's red, but it has a

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Speaker 1: certain shape, et cetera. Maybe what what where did the

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Speaker 1: kangaroo come from? Like whose idea was that? Was that

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Speaker 1: already involved with quantus before you get involved, Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 2: It was there for a long long time and.

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Speaker 1: It was there a story behind it.

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Speaker 2: Why kangaroo always it was always it was always there

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Speaker 2: right from the beginning.

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Speaker 1: But the shape was the current shap.

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Speaker 2: No, not the current shake. But it's Australian, right, and

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Speaker 2: it's powerful Australian.

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Speaker 1: Are they're the different kangaroos?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's kind of goes right back. And of

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Speaker 2: course what happens with that with those kangaroos. It's it's

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Speaker 2: it dated very quickly in real terms, over years and years.

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Speaker 2: So I've made a big deal of designing it much

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Speaker 2: more as a timeless piece of work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean, we might put a photograph up

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Speaker 1: in the in the on the pages. But but I

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Speaker 1: noticed that the kangaroo, we've got it before and after

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Speaker 1: kangaroo here, and the kangaroo before kangaroo looks like it's

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Speaker 1: sort of stationary, and then the after one it looks

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Speaker 1: like it's actually sort of in mid flight, if I

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Speaker 1: could say, like it's off the ground.

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Speaker 2: The only biggest deal there is why I see that stabilizer, Well,

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Speaker 2: it cuts right through the lag. So I've actually designed

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Speaker 2: a better presented this one, right, I presented this gangaroo

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Speaker 2: in a wheelchair because but that's what's happening, you know,

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Speaker 2: it loses its leg. It was badly done, and that's

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Speaker 2: why I made it a much more moving, going forward

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Speaker 2: piece of work.

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Speaker 1: So were you evolved at that stage?

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Speaker 3: Jay around At that stage this is two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 3: I was in London getting my training in order to

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Speaker 3: come back to the business.

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Speaker 1: So you went off and did like design training so

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Speaker 1: to speak.

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Speaker 3: More the business side of design training.

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Speaker 1: So you see you're still the design you're you're you're

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Speaker 1: more running the business.

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Speaker 3: Yes, correct, correct, And that's how that's how it works.

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Speaker 3: That's how it works between the two.

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Speaker 1: Of us, Yin and Yang.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, he's on his own side doing his thing.

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Speaker 3: I'm on my side my thing. And that's how the

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Speaker 3: partnership works.

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Speaker 1: It's very interesting because, like by the way, being a

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Speaker 1: fire and son is a hard thing to do. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to father and son to work in the same business. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can't be clashing with each other. We do, you

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Speaker 1: do it?

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Speaker 3: Of course we do.

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Speaker 2: We fight all the time. No, no, no, no, We've

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Speaker 2: got we've both got strong opinions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's good. Well, because I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: that in a second, because I might talk about that

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Speaker 1: in the second half of the show. But in terms,

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Speaker 1: I do want to come back to this. It's often

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Speaker 1: referred to as a flying kangaroo, but that's more quantities

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Speaker 1: of referred to as a flying kangaroo. I want to

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Speaker 1: actually ask you, like, do you draw this? You're an artist,

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Speaker 1: so I don't use a computer. No, it's hand raw.

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Speaker 2: It's all hand raw.

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Speaker 1: And then so you're sitting down. How many years ago

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Speaker 1: we're talking about this?

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Speaker 2: This was back in two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 1: So we're nearly twenty years ago, eight years ago. So

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Speaker 1: just they take me through the process. You know, you

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Speaker 1: win the job. Jeff Dixon says, let's get the duty

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Speaker 1: here and let's get into and we want to have

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Speaker 1: a look at all the you know, the paraphernalia. So

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Speaker 1: you're sitting down having a whiskey or what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Are you flying somewhere?

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Speaker 2: No, it's not like that at all. So the first

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Speaker 2: thing that happens is we probably do a lot of

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Speaker 2: research on exactly where that brand's at, how it's perceived

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Speaker 2: out there in the market. And then we've got actually

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Speaker 2: a strategic team at work that connects all those pieces

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Speaker 2: you know together, you know, and and and give us

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Speaker 2: guidelines as to where this needs to where that needs

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Speaker 2: to be.

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Speaker 1: That so you shove the old one and say, what's

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Speaker 1: crap about this? And so just just on the research,

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Speaker 1: how do you go about that? Like I mean people

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Speaker 1: say focus groups and all that sort of stuff, But it's

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Speaker 1: a bit like that, what's the question you answer?

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Speaker 2: And then sometimes no, well sometimes the client doesn't, you know,

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Speaker 2: they give the research to us and say yeah it is.

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Speaker 2: You know, we've done reached that, We've done our research,

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Speaker 2: We've done all that work, and it's basically finding out

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Speaker 2: if that brand is still or the identity to speak,

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Speaker 2: is still relevant, right, you know, relevant for a new audience,

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Speaker 2: relevant for their current customers, is it even relevant for

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Speaker 2: their employees. All those things play a role in creating

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Speaker 2: an identity for a business.

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Speaker 1: So you're building up data.

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Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, yeah, speaking to a lot of people, a

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Speaker 3: lot of stakeholders, internal stakeholders, external stakeholders, looking at competitors,

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Speaker 3: looking at the market, and having a good viewpoint on

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Speaker 3: who's doing what, how they are currently positioning themselves. And

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Speaker 3: as Hahn said, you know, before we even put pen

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Speaker 3: to paper, it's really understanding who they want to be,

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Speaker 3: how they want to come across, as you said before,

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Speaker 3: the vision and the values and articulating the personality of

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Speaker 3: the business. So once we have that on paper and

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Speaker 3: agree together with the client, then that's really the briefer

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Speaker 3: hands and the creative team to say, right, this is

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Speaker 3: who they are as a business, this is how they

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Speaker 3: want to come across. Now, go and do your thing

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Speaker 3: and bring that to life.

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Speaker 1: Visually, I can ask a questions Jaly, But.

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Speaker 2: Mark, that is fifty percent of what we do right.

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Speaker 2: The other fifty intuition, you've got to sit down and

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Speaker 2: actually come up with the goods.

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Speaker 1: You've got to create something, create it. But let me

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Speaker 1: just go back to the research paid piece. So on

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Speaker 1: one hand, it's about the values of the company. But

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, a lot of companies

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Speaker 1: might say, well, we've just got good ethics. We want

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Speaker 1: to deliver a good product at the right price, a

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Speaker 1: safe seed, a comfortable seed, and a good price. If

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Speaker 1: I make it simple as the company speaking, then if

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Speaker 1: you go and externally and do research in the marketplace,

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Speaker 1: consumers might have one hundred things that they're looking for,

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Speaker 1: one hundred different things, and so you've got might be

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Speaker 1: completely different what the company says. You bring it back

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Speaker 1: to the company, say, listen, your values are here, but

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Speaker 1: your consumers values that's their list. How do you work

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Speaker 1: out how do you reconcile those two things.

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Speaker 3: So it's the defining the company's vision and values is

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Speaker 3: one thing, and as you say, most of them have

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Speaker 3: similar vision values as well. It's the brand's personality that

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Speaker 3: we define, which determines how the brand articulates itself and

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Speaker 3: comes across and that's the differentiator between brands. And that's

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Speaker 3: what it is that we look to dial up when

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Speaker 3: we're creating. When hards is creating identities for brands. For instance,

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Speaker 3: wolwors right, they want to be known as fresh and

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Speaker 3: fresh food, and.

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Speaker 1: So where do they find where do they do they

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Speaker 1: say they want to be known as ad or do

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Speaker 1: their consumer research tell them that's what they should be

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Speaker 1: known as and they said, or they might consumer research

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Speaker 1: might say there's ten things you can we want you

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Speaker 1: to be known as yea, and will worst the corporate

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Speaker 1: has chosen one that How does that work?

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Speaker 3: It's a bit of both. So it's it's lessening and

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Speaker 3: learning from the customers as also understanding who they are

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Speaker 3: as a business and what they can genuinely deliver on

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Speaker 3: as well, because there's no good saying we want to

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Speaker 3: be this, but they can't deliver on it, right so

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Speaker 3: therefore then and also understanding the competitor set and what

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Speaker 3: the customer wants and then going through all those sort

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Speaker 3: of things, then you're able to define exactly how they

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Speaker 3: differentiate what they can double down on to deliver and

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Speaker 3: then how do you articulate that and bring that to life?

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Speaker 3: To hero it will worst is the perfect example.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: So they deliver on food, fresh food. That's how they're

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Speaker 3: known for, that's what the customer wants. That's how they

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Speaker 3: can differ ciate specifically from the other competitors as well.

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Speaker 3: And of course the mark and the visual identity that

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Speaker 3: Hans designed perfectly explains that and brings that to life.

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Speaker 1: Warves is in here is it? It's right?

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Speaker 2: It's the right here?

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Speaker 1: Right? Okay, So can I go because I'm still confused.

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Speaker 1: I'm not not confused, but it's not an easy process.

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Speaker 1: You guys, correct for a living.

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Speaker 2: Actually it's different. Every job is different, so let's never

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Speaker 2: be Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well went first hand Hans with Wars. Did you do

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Speaker 1: you ask the company what what is what its values are?

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Speaker 1: Fresh food?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Or do you ask the consumer what they want first?

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Speaker 1: What comes first? It's actually first, always the client first,

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Speaker 1: not the consumer. The they con you to.

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Speaker 2: Come and do the job, right, so so and in

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Speaker 2: this case they did, and then then you know they

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Speaker 2: I mean there is actually very simple. The way they

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Speaker 2: spoke to me. In the first way, it went like, look,

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Speaker 2: we need a we need a new mark, and we

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Speaker 2: need to stand out from the standout from the competition.

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Speaker 2: I want people to love it, and I want our

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Speaker 2: employee used to be pro to wear it as a badge.

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Speaker 2: Go and do it.

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Speaker 1: That was it.

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Speaker 2: And they said, go and do it and work out

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Speaker 2: what you need to do, and then we kind of

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Speaker 2: go through all the research and the strategies and whatever

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Speaker 2: it takes to get there.

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Speaker 1: So did you work on this one? Now again, this

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Speaker 1: was around the same time as that's okay, but you

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Speaker 1: understand how well it's.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely and as hard said, you know, they they came

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Speaker 3: to us saying, our old mark.

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Speaker 2: Which is this one?

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Speaker 1: You remember that one? Right? They said that that's this

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Speaker 1: one here right?

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Speaker 3: They said that logo. Yes, while it says the fresh

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Speaker 3: food people in the mark, it no longer says who

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Speaker 3: we are. And we were looking for a that truly

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Speaker 3: represents us as an organization. Go and create it. Aw

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Speaker 3: They that they are dream jobs for any designer, because

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Speaker 3: you have a blank piece of paper, carte blanche to

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Speaker 3: design whatever it is that you want to design with.

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Speaker 3: Quantis Quantus was an evolutionary design. The red triangle already existed.

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Speaker 3: Hanns modernized at for for today. For Woolworths, it was

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Speaker 3: revolutionary and those jobs very rarely happen, especially at that level.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're talking about the largest supermarket retailer in

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Speaker 3: the country.

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Speaker 2: That rarely happens in the country, right, are talking huge? Right?

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Speaker 1: Let me go through it then, so they too what

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Speaker 1: they want? Yeah, they were the fresh food people prior

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Speaker 1: to you guys get involved and it looked a bit

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Speaker 1: old boring to be honest, that will were signed underneath it,

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Speaker 1: sorry grace, respect to the provis designer. And then you

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Speaker 1: guys get the brief, you go out and do some research.

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Speaker 1: What sort of research? What do you ask? Are you

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Speaker 1: asking leading questions to consumers?

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Speaker 2: How do you feel about how do you feel about Woolwords?

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Speaker 2: Do you connect with that with that brand? Do you

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Speaker 2: how do you you know? You do you go shopping?

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Speaker 2: You go in and you go out because you know,

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Speaker 2: you hate the place, but you need to do your shopping.

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Speaker 2: Or do you actually go in the store and mill

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Speaker 2: around and you know, and buy maybe something else as well,

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Speaker 2: you know, And I think in the old days it

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Speaker 2: was very much like that. You know, people just go

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Speaker 2: in and out and that's it. So part of our

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Speaker 2: job wasn't just this this this logo mark that I did,

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Speaker 2: But part of the job was also what happens in store,

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Speaker 2: you know, like how do people move from one, you know,

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Speaker 2: from fresh food to nappies? You know, how do they

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Speaker 2: do that? And all that stuff? And we helped it

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Speaker 2: with all of that.

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Speaker 1: And and then you I say, there's a colored palette here,

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Speaker 1: or you call primary colors always dark green or green

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Speaker 1: always like green? Worse? Is that something you propose them

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Speaker 1: or that's something they give you?

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, no no. What they want is they want

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Speaker 2: to communicate to fresh food people what green is the

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Speaker 2: color of fresh and.

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Speaker 1: Well that's simple to you, but you know, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: know that.

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Speaker 2: I know that, you know, retch the color of retail,

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Speaker 2: and and green is the color of fresh, and yellow

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Speaker 2: is the color of warmth and the sun and all

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Speaker 2: those things. They all play a role.

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Speaker 3: There's semiotics in in semiotics in visual communications. So when

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Speaker 3: you see things, instantly recognize and instantly understand what they are.

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Speaker 3: So when Hans is talking about red, that's the color

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Speaker 3: that you know, screams out and shouts you. So that's

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Speaker 3: used in retail a lot, especially when there's like for

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Speaker 3: sale signs and things like that. Blue is usually used

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Speaker 3: in corporate communications and corporate identities like banks and things

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Speaker 3: like that, because it's more trust it's more staid. So

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Speaker 3: and and of.

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Speaker 1: Course because CBA uses yellow.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yeah, so that's more joyful and exciting. Is

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Speaker 3: the color yellow? That's what That's what the yellow color

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Speaker 3: evokes in people.

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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, that's interesting? And orange is there? Is there

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Speaker 1: something about orange?

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Speaker 3: Orange is is a darker version of of yellow. So

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Speaker 3: it's still it's still joyful and excitement, but not as

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Speaker 3: screamy and shouty as right.

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Speaker 1: And so you give them a color palette so to speak. Yes,

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Speaker 1: they already had a bit of green in their original one,

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Speaker 1: not just.

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Speaker 3: The color palette.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: So we also give them a photography as you see

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Speaker 3: next to a photography style in terms of how things

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Speaker 3: should be photographed and people should be photographed. We give

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Speaker 3: them a type face as well, because typefaces evoke different

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Speaker 3: emotions too, you mean, like the way the font of

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Speaker 3: the time, yes, correct, yep. And also really really important

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Speaker 3: is a language and a tone of voice as well.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean? Tone of voice? So I love

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Speaker 1: to go through each one of those. Actually, let's just

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Speaker 1: start with typeface, So what are the veriest typefaces?

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Speaker 2: Tell us, well, there's lots of so so a face

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Speaker 2: that's got a seraph and I the need to probably

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Speaker 2: explain that to you know, that's that's not as straightforward

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Speaker 2: as the as a logo is. Maybe is a little

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Speaker 2: bit more traditional, more and and and maybe a little

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Speaker 2: bit warmer maybe, but it's not modern, you know. And

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Speaker 2: that and this type is much more modern and it'll

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Speaker 2: last a distance, you know, because one of the things

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Speaker 2: that I always find a key to it in designing

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Speaker 2: is to do make a timeless I mean, these guys,

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Speaker 2: they spent huge amount of money on an on an

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Speaker 2: identity that needs to last thirty forty fifty years, you know,

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Speaker 2: we did this sixteen years ago, and so it needs

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Speaker 2: to last a distance, you know. So therefore everything you

437
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 2: design needs to be able to stand the test of time,

438
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 2: and that's why we choose typefaces that do that.

439
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 1: Very you know, remind me of an artist who has

440
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: a really strong view on his art. And that's sort

441
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: of I mean, I don't mean that's disrespectful, like that's all,

442
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 1: you know, because I met like lots of artists like blakes,

443
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 1: like John Olson and those sort of like classical artists,

444
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: Australian artists who have a really strong view on what

445
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: it is they're trying to represent in their art. And

446
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 1: I don't mean that in I'm not trying to take

447
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: away the seriousness of the business outcome that you're trying

448
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: to achieve here. But equally I'm trying I just get

449
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: this feeling that you become truly convicted as to what

450
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: you think works in relation to the brief I just have.

451
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: But forty years of experience here in Australia, right, it's

452
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: just actually, I mean it does.

453
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 1: Help, yeah, but you are but you are convicted on there.

454
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 2: But the difference is a bit of an artist. The

455
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 2: difference is that this is purely commercial.

456
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: But it is artistic too and it's creat is.

457
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 2: It a way? But I mean, in the end of

458
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 2: the day, you need to connect with a lot of people,

459
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 2: you know, and it's a very different ballgame than doing

460
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: a painting.

461
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: Yea connected to connect have to connect to otherwise than.

462
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 2: Connect otherwise someone's self. But it's it's not like, you know,

463
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 2: you need to connect with the whole of Australia.

464
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: You have to connect with a large audience. It's huge audience.

465
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: That's large, large audience.

466
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 2: So type because so typeface of this, I think it

467
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 2: always needs to be very simple and it needs to

468
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 2: cut through. It needs to be modern, but it needs

469
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: to be timeless, very very important. I tell you what

470
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 2: the way that I designed that logo, right, I actually

471
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 2: think they're at a point now where they can drop

472
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 2: the type. You know, they don't need to say what

473
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 2: used to freshen the people anymore. It's like the Nike swush, right,

474
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,959
Speaker 2: they don't they don't say Nike anymore. It's just that

475
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: swish and that logo now has become so strong, but

476
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 2: you see it every day right out there, becomes so

477
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 2: strong that it doesn't need a typeface anymore. At the

478
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 2: time it did, of course, because you'll launch it. But

479
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 2: it's that that mark seems to be getting stronger every

480
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 2: every day, you know, it gets more and more more

481
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: powerful and bold, and it's out there. So that's typeface.

482
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: And then we've got a tone of voice. Don't know

483
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: what that means?

484
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So, so tone of voice is the language

485
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 3: in which brands use to to communicate. So choice of words, yes, correct,

486
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 3: exactly right, right, So the company can either choose to

487
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 3: use very corporate and professional words or they could use

488
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 3: you know, very straightforward conversational style words. And the difference

489
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 3: between that is the difference in terms of again how

490
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 3: the brand's personality wants to come across. So usually financial

491
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 3: services businesses will use very professional because they want to

492
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 3: sound like, you know, and you're spending a lot of

493
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 3: money with us as well, whereas someone like Warlworst would

494
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 3: have more conversational style. And of course, as we know,

495
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 3: in the last maybe six years, war Worsts have also

496
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 3: pretty much in their conversation and their advertising changed their

497
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 3: own name. They're referred to as Woolies. Now, they refer

498
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 3: to themselves as woolies in advertising. Ten years ago, it

499
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 3: wasn't like that at all. It was always war Worst

500
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 3: war was Now they want to be more friendly, more approachable,

501
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 3: more conversational style, and they themselves refer to them as

502
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 3: as wool is.

503
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: So the tone of voice has evolved to some extent.

504
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well well yes, well yes or no

505
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 2: in a way right, yes, when it comes to Woolies,

506
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: yes it is. But in the end, I think the

507
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 2: key thing about their words was they want to be welcoming,

508
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 2: they want to be welcome people come in the store.

509
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 2: They are coming shoppy. That's the key to the to

510
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 2: the text.

511
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: I don't have a look at some of them. I

512
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: see if I can read it wars. Tone of voice

513
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: reflects a warm, down to earth personality. This means they

514
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: communicate as you would speak to each other's like it's

515
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: sort of not colloquial, but not too highbrow either. Yes,

516
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: so it's it's done to earth, the conversation sort of

517
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: the way you speak, and the primary colors they have

518
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: to reflect all this the fresh food people type, you know,

519
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: let's call it ethic to go for it. And then

520
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: the photographic style I don't quite understand. Do you mean?

521
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: Like I got one photo a little girl with the

522
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: birthday cake and she's smiling. There's another, you know, photograph

523
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: of it, like it looks like one of those things

524
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: on the side of the road where you know, some

525
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: farmer's been growing and oranges and honesty boxing you take

526
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: some apples. And then there's a there's a nice clean

527
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: photograph of three really well uh well cut bits of

528
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: watermelon for really well bits of water And I was

529
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: sitting in a nice white ball with a light green background.

530
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: What do you mean by photographic style exactly how you

531
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: just described it.

532
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,719
Speaker 3: So heroing the food, right, so with the water, heroing

533
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 3: the food, the beautiful lighting on it to to bring

534
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 3: it to life. The girl looking at you directly smiling,

535
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 3: the lighting around her, what she's engaging with, the honesty

536
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 3: of that of the the fruit box, those things, those

537
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 3: styles of photography is again plays part into how the

538
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 3: brand wants to come across financial services. You know, you

539
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 3: might have photography of someone in a suit, you know,

540
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 3: or shaking hands, things like that, bit more professional, a

541
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 3: bit more seriousness. But here, just like the tone of

542
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 3: voice in terms of how we want the tone of

543
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 3: voice to come across colloquial. Friendly is the same in

544
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 3: the photography. Friendly is the same in the typeface is

545
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 3: the same in the color palette. All these things are

546
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 3: part of a brand's identity. Logo is one part, tone

547
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 3: of voice is another, Typography is another, Photography is another,

548
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 3: and they all play a part of the brand's visual

549
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 3: identity to help people understand what that business is about.

550
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 3: And you know how they differentiate from another competitor that

551
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 3: could be about price.

552
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: Well, I know the other competitor you're talking about, and

553
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,479
Speaker 1: that's what they're doing with it downtown down things factly right?

554
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: So can I just ask either one I don't know

555
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: who that both of you probably know the answers, but

556
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: I don't care answers. But you just said so a

557
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: customer can identify with those values that you're trying to

558
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: wolves as trying to Woolli's is trying to tell us

559
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: that they do? Does the customer when you say that

560
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: the customer's not actually consciously making that decision? Are you saying?

561
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: Is it because? Because I mean I look at wars

562
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: ads and go to warves myself, et cetera all the time.

563
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: I never consciously think of any of these things. I

564
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: just got to Wolves because subconsciously probably is appealing to me.

565
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: How do you understand the subsctious appeal of a customer?

566
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, you put all these things together,

567
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: But is it a subconscious thing or do you think others,

568
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: maybe everyone else in the world is conscious of these decisions?

569
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 2: Work? I think is very much subconscious.

570
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: It is subconscious totally. Yeah.

571
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 2: I mean it's not direct your face.

572
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: That way.

573
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: No, it needs to appeal to your your feelings about

574
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: that brand you know and that and you don't describe

575
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 2: that in words. It's a it's you know, how how

576
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 2: do you see it? And and half the time you

577
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: won't pick it up, but it's there, you know. And people,

578
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 2: you know, most people they love consistency, you know, that's

579
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: they They don't want change, they don't want to These

580
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 2: keep telling me the same thing, you know, and I

581
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: love you.

582
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: They keep reinforcing those values of of of of that piece.

583
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 3: I'll give you a perfect example, right, the power of

584
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 3: brand and how it how it helps differentiate, and how

585
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 3: it helps the subconscious. Apple and Samsung, okay, the the

586
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 3: the phones. Right, everybody in in the tech space understand

587
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 3: that Samsung make a better hardware and a better software

588
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 3: product in their phone. It's a better phone. But more

589
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 3: people buy into and buy an Apple phone because of

590
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 3: the brand, the simplicity of it, the ease and function

591
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 3: of it, and they want to be associated with the Apple.

592
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: Brand and they've got a great image and that to

593
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: remember than Samsung. The word Apple. Yeah yeah, pretty simple, yeah,

594
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: very simple.

595
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 3: But it's all I mean, You've you've got your iPad there,

596
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 3: You've got your Apple phone there, right, And so the

597
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 3: simplicity and ease of use of an Apple product is

598
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 3: all part of the brand. It's all designed to be

599
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 3: part of the brand and the brand experience.

600
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 2: And it looks great, and that's what people look good.

601
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: I want to go bring when it comes straight back,

602
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: because before I move off, Willworths, I want to come.

603
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: I do need to ask, then, how did you go

604
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: about designing the war Wors logo? I think it's called

605
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: logo or trademark what it is? They go, the break

606
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: comes straight back, And because I'm dying to know how

607
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: well how that process works, mar it takes.

608
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 2: It can take a long time. I mean there's there's

609
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: brands that that I've designed in two minutes, Like for instance,

610
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 2: classic one is Rebel. You know I did that in

611
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: five you know, a couple of minutes. It was done.

612
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: You know they're connecting on the two e's, you know,

613
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: coming together great. You know that was done very very quickly.

614
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: This one took a bit longer because the client was

615
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: determined to get a mark that that you know, really

616
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: connected and really told that story out there and needed

617
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: to live for many many years to come. And it

618
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 2: took a bit to do that. But you just keep going,

619
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 2: you just keep working at it, and then eventually there

620
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 2: is that pivotal moment right where you go, geez, this

621
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 2: is it, and then you know, you go to your

622
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: client and you present it and they like it, and

623
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 2: they because.

624
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: Hold it because I want to have to break and

625
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm got to talk, because I got to talk to

626
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: our sponsors, and it comes straight back. I'm back from

627
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: the breaker. Now. I'm dying to know. Hands tell me.

628
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: I mean, there's lots of curves in it, sort of,

629
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: it's lots of sort of angles in it, lots of

630
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 1: colors to give it different dimensions. It's got a little

631
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: I don't think that's an asterisk up there. If I

632
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: didn't know, if you were to come to me and

633
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: I didn't know what was the War Worse like when

634
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: you originally did it, because obviously know it's for wars

635
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: these days, and you showed me, I wouldn't know what

636
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: it stood for. But for some reason, I now know

637
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: that's the War Worst sign. It's there, that's their trademark.

638
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: How many iterations of your trademark did you go through

639
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: before you and Wills decided that's the one.

640
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 2: Probably about a hundred nuts, I mean, maybe more. I

641
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 2: mean it took it took a lot of work to

642
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: get to that point. But it you know it sometimes

643
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: it does, you know, sometimes it does take a long time.

644
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: But in this case to capture fresh food, right, the

645
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 2: symbol for fresh food is a green apple.

646
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: It is That's what it is.

647
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 2: Okay, So one I tried to well, I designed an

648
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: apple is necessarily the apple peel. Yeah. The other thing

649
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 2: is it's it's a way, so a W for Woolworths. Right.

650
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: And then the other thing is these things on the side,

651
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: they are like arms welcoming you into the company. And

652
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: it's it's very very simple. It works. The process. It's

653
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 2: not easy, no, absolutely not, but like I said, that

654
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 2: comes that point where you just work at it and

655
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 2: work at it, work it. And I'm one that never

656
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 2: gives up. I won't give up.

657
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 3: That simplicity that you talk about is absolutely critical for

658
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 3: a brand to communicate. In a brand, the two most

659
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 3: important things that make a grand break great is simplicity

660
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 3: and consistency. So simplicity in the brand. So when you

661
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 3: see that mark, or when you see the brand in

662
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 3: any of its state, you automatically understand what that brand

663
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,439
Speaker 3: is about. I get that brand is about fresh food.

664
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 3: Or you look at the quantus kangaroo and the brand

665
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 3: of quantity, and you get, I get that brand is

666
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 3: about Australia or Australiana. So simplicity in message is number one.

667
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,720
Speaker 3: And then the second thing that makes a great brand

668
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 3: great is the consistency of that message across all of

669
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 3: the different touch points, whether or not it's on signage, photography,

670
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 3: whether or not it's on uniform. However, the brand communicates

671
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 3: itself consistently across those different touch points. They're the two

672
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 3: things make a great brand.

673
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: I love art, and I particularly clever art. And forgive me,

674
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: and maybe I'm way off being here, but was there

675
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: any inspiration from the famous artists of many years ago

676
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: called Esha who used to draw these things? And you're

677
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: it was a bit of a mind fuck in that

678
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: you were sort of trying to trace through where it

679
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: started and ended, because it looks like given the dimensions,

680
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,479
Speaker 1: it looks like it's two dimensions. I get the apple peel,

681
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: that's very clever, actually, but the dimensions, the dimensional change

682
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: in this and the cleverness in it.

683
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 2: I think that you make a really interesting point here

684
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: because all those things that influence your thinking, right, Na

685
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: He actually he actually used to live not that far

686
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 2: away where I.

687
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: Was born, because I was going to ask you, you're

688
00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: dutchy Yeah? Yeah, so he was Dutch. Yeah I thought so.

689
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: So I was wondering whether you had had influence in

690
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: your life.

691
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 2: All those things around you, you get influence.

692
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 1: You would have seen isha drawings everywhere I've.

693
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 2: Got at home. Oh wow, I mean I've got a

694
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 2: few of his his work, right.

695
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: I feel so good that I actually connected that piece

696
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 1: because it looks like to me, you're absolutely right.

697
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 2: I mean, but lots of things are influenced, you know,

698
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 2: the way you think, the way you do, because it's life.

699
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 1: Because what's interesting about that hands for me anyway, maybe

700
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: you're not hopefully the audience too, But what's interesting in

701
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 1: there for me is that the outcome is for wool

702
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: worse and for therefore or it's consumers and its staff

703
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: who relate to the brand. Has a lot to do

704
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: with the influencers on hands of life, yes, correct, And

705
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: it's a bringing together of the two influencers and the

706
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: more colorful the influencers on your life. Because I mean,

707
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: I I happen to be a great fan of Veshioner

708
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: only because the actual way he went about this, his

709
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: drawings because it used to el especially when I was younger,

710
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: in my twenties. He used to like mathematically freak me

711
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: out the way he would design things out. I used

712
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: to always try and work it out beginning and end,

713
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: and that was the whole point. You can't find the

714
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: beginning end. But I fell into that deep poble trying

715
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: to work out the beginning end was I thought I

716
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: could sort of out smart him, but I or work

717
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: it out. Not how smart about work it out. But

718
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: it's interesting that you saw that, because I don't know

719
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: what it's load to grump and Holland, but I guess

720
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,280
Speaker 1: stuffs everywhere because he's one of your more famous exports.

721
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: There's lots of famous exports coming out of out of

722
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: the Netherlands, but nonetheless it's one of the more famous

723
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: statistic exports, more modern to in a modern sense, and

724
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: that must have had some influence on you at some

725
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: stage in your life.

726
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you get influenced by by you know, by him,

727
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 2: off course, but there's also others like Mandre. He's another one, right,

728
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 2: very very simple, but Jesus, good work, right.

729
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: Simply complex.

730
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: It just connects, you know, it just connects with you.

731
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 2: And you learn and and art history is like big

732
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: deal in the netherlance, right, is that right? So many?

733
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: Is that right?

734
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 2: We've had so many artists over the years, ren Brand,

735
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 2: you know Van Gok you named them, right, They've all

736
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 2: been there and they all kind of influenced the way

737
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 2: you think.

738
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: So is that a thing growing up in your where

739
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: you grew up in the in your country, that you

740
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: get influenced by the historical significance of all those those

741
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: are great artists, both modern and not modern older ones.

742
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: Do you get influenced? But do you get the influence

743
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: that by those people at school and etcetera. These things

744
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: sort of talked to you.

745
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

746
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's because we have no one in Australia. We

747
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,439
Speaker 1: have some indigenous artists, but it's not that well taught

748
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: in Australia other than other that we have a few

749
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: people like John Olson, more modern artists, but doesn't really

750
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: get taught to us at school. We're not don't have

751
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: that great pride in our artists are artists in Australia.

752
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: We're more sports because we don't have that long in history.

753
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: But you guys growing up had that that influence and

754
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: it seems like you've dragged that into to me anyway,

755
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: into that design that logo, it's not logo, it's it's

756
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 1: what is that called? What do you call that.

757
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 2: Logo?

758
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: And what's that little thing at the topic? Tell me

759
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: what that is that looks like it's like the stems

760
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: growing out of it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I

761
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: get it. They get it.

762
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 3: It's the leaf that the top of Yeah.

763
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: You know, because I thought I thought it might have

764
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: been something to be like an apostrophe. I thought it

765
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 1: was like an apostrophe, and that is that something follows.

766
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: That's what I thought it always meant. Because and it's interesting,

767
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 1: I guess people do do have interpretations of your good Yeah,

768
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: different interpretations and people people do. People often say that

769
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: to you, Yes, yeah, and it must be like it

770
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 1: must be amazing, like this book is crazy, Like there's quantus.

771
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: I think you mentioned to me when I met w

772
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 1: was did you do something Virgin you guys.

773
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 3: Where we did the whole repositioning and rebranded Virgin from

774
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 3: Virgin blue member Virgin Blue. Where's that Virgin Australia?

775
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 2: That?

776
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I want to talk about Virgin Virgin blue

777
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: because Virgin when they first kicked off he was Virgin Blue.

778
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 1: I think, yes, correct, yeah, and then I soon recall

779
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: something changed as.

780
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: The big man.

781
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 3: And then the next page is the implementation.

782
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: Right this, so that's Branson launching Virgin.

783
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 3: Together with John Borghetti and Hans you can see there

784
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 3: in the background as well. Really you know JB.

785
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do, yeah, yeah. And in fact he gave me,

786
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: he gave me entry into the so called VIP club,

787
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: which I use all the time, although quanet As, I

788
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: do use your stuff too, but I have to work

789
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: on whatever it's got the best time. So take me

790
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,240
Speaker 1: through Virgin Blue and then the trans the transition.

791
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 2: So Virgin Blue was a down market you know, horrible

792
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 2: airline you know in the old as right. When John

793
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 2: Borghetti came in, he wanted to seriously compete with Quantas,

794
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 2: and that meant he had to lift the image of

795
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 2: the brand because image was cheap, yeah, cheap, nasty you

796
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 2: know like, and so he then told me to do

797
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: their job. The thing was, though, the difference between Quantas

798
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 2: and this one was is that with Conas, I was

799
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,439
Speaker 2: very much involved with the kangaroo. This one, he gave

800
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 2: me the total project, and by that I mean carpets, chairs, lounges,

801
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 2: you name it. He just threw it at us.

802
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: Wow. Right.

803
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 2: And so I was traveling the world to find, you know,

804
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 2: with other people. I cause a Quantas to find all

805
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 2: that stuff, you know, and that it had to be

806
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 2: paid for. There's only very few companies in the world

807
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 2: that are allowed to build chairs and to build carpet

808
00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 2: and the music, you know, the way that the the

809
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 2: crew communicates with you, the lighting, everything that was thrown

810
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 2: at me to say yeah, go and do it.

811
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:08,479
Speaker 1: Wow.

812
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 2: And and so it was a spectacular job to do.

813
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 3: This job is a real example of a business and

814
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 3: brand transformation. When Ansett left the market, you remember that,

815
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 3: I sure do. When they left the market, Quantus were

816
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 3: the only ones offering business class travel. And when JB

817
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 3: left Quantas to go and join virgin he knew that

818
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 3: in order to transform Virgin Blue that he needed to

819
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 3: offer a business class service to take Quantas on. But

820
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 3: Virgin Blue couldn't do it, that brand, couldn't They They

821
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 3: didn't even have business class seats in the planet. They

822
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 3: didn't even have a lounge. They didn't have the points system,

823
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 3: they didn't have any of that.

824
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: And so they didn't have a terminal. They didn't even

825
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: have a terminal exactly.

826
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 3: Why they were just using that that that entrance as

827
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 3: you as you come into the exactly.

828
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:04,280
Speaker 1: Ansets terminal.

829
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 3: Yes, so JB. He went about building the lounges and

830
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 3: building the loyalty program, and building and reconfiguring the interior

831
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 3: of the plane to put business class seats up the front.

832
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 3: So whilst he was doing all those, all that Hans

833
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 3: was brief to reposition and rebrand everything for virtually including

834
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 3: the name, and as he said, to redo the to

835
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 3: do the lounges, to do all the interior aircraft, everything.

836
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 2: So early in the conversation we talked about consistency. Right

837
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 2: now in our line, consistency is vital because what it

838
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 2: says safe safe. All we worry about is safety. Right.

839
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 2: If you are all over the place with your brad, well,

840
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 2: what does that say about safety?

841
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: Right?

842
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 2: So that's vital.

843
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: Why did you linked, Why did you drop blue? Did

844
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: you change the name?

845
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 2: Because because it's just don't market Virgin Blue is known

846
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 2: as a down market brand. Had to change.

847
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 3: And you've got to remember at the time, the brief

848
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 3: was to attract business class travelers. Business class people are

849
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 3: not going to travel on Virgin blue. They're going to

850
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 3: travel on quantums business class. And so how how he

851
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 3: changed the look of the I mean just even the

852
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 3: look of the aircraft. You remember virgin blue was had

853
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 3: that blue, the aircraft was blue and the tail was

854
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 3: a ground Well there you go, so there you go.

855
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 3: But now you look at it, it's sophisticated. They're great

856
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 3: aircrafts and they look like they look sophisticated. They look

857
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 3: like business class aircraft that you that you could travel on.

858
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 3: And so that's what he transformed.

859
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: And did you go through the same process, like the

860
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, the color palettes, the language.

861
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 2: It's there, it's all there.

862
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: Typeface, yeah, and it's and it's largely red and purple.

863
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 1: They're the sort of the predominant colors. What does purple

864
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: tell me? Like is there something about purple?

865
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? But purple is an interesting color because it's a

866
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 2: little bit agy you know that. And you know what

867
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 2: Richard Branson's like, right, he likes to be like that,

868
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 2: you know, do what you need to do and then

869
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 2: do something that is slightly different to everybody else. And

870
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 2: that's where purple came in.

871
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: And how much of how much of the thinking was

872
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: did you how much in your thinking. Did you use

873
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: the fact that Richard Branson was the dude behind it,

874
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: because like taking some of his personality into the Virgin

875
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 1: brand is.

876
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 2: Absolutely and in the end, you know, you again, the

877
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 2: investment is huge, especially in the airline industry. Right, it

878
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: ends up on Brandson's desk and he needs he ultimately

879
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 2: needs to say yes or a.

880
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 3: You know, it's also the Richard Branson and the allure

881
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 3: of the Virgin brand is what we double down on

882
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 3: in order to create this brand because it's it's what

883
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 3: differentiates itself from quantis the same thing as that the

884
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 3: Apple Samsung example, an airline is an airline is and

885
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 3: it's going to get you from A to B. The

886
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 3: difference is the brand and the brand experience. So we

887
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 3: wanted to bring that virginness on the retain the virginness

888
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 3: in this brand and in the brand experience to differentiate

889
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 3: itself from quantity.

890
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: Is the virginness in the experience? Is that about modern

891
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: edgy college Maybe it's like, yeah, keep going yep, right,

892
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: like everybody else type, I'm not risky, but I'm different

893
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: everybody else reliable, you know, successful, those sorts of things.

894
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 1: Is that the sort of virginesce Yes, yes.

895
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 3: Yes, very much so. And because that that virginness comes

896
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 3: through in all of the other Virgin brands that he has,

897
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 3: Virgin Money, Virgin Gyms and you know, Virgin Mobile, and

898
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 3: so we wanted to bring that brandsonness to to this brand.

899
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very interesting. He once told me. I've only

900
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: ever met him once and I was sitting on a

901
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: play with him. Luckily Indy, he told me, he said, look,

902
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 1: we're talking about names for businesses. And he said he

903
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: took the view that the Virgin name, as long as

904
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 1: it was remembered, he didn't care whether half the population

905
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: hated and half the population loved it. At least he

906
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: had half and there was half. That's better because if

907
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: you try to give a name no one hates and

908
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: no one loves, you've.

909
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 3: Got no one and you go down that path of

910
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 3: your bland, you won't be remembered. You're better off having

911
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 3: brand loyalists and people that love the brand, then just

912
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 3: be bland and stand for nothing.

913
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I quite like the service I get

914
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: out of Virgin. Now, I don't know was because I

915
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: like the brands and piece of it. How important? Well,

916
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: when you have an individual sitting behind a brand as

917
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: opposed to quantics, there is no individual. When you have

918
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 1: maybe your kangaroos, the individual, I don't know. But but

919
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: when you don't have an individual, like the banks they

920
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: don't have an individual. When you get an individual, how

921
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: important is it for you to sort of grab hold

922
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: of that and run with it?

923
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Because it makes it unique?

924
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: Yeah? Is that? And so when people are listening to

925
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: the show like this and they've got a little brand,

926
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 1: but they're in a crowded market, would you say to them,

927
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: try to put your own personality into their brand?

928
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 3: Absolutely, to stand out a bit. Absolutely, And because it's

929
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 3: also what engages people, what engages the customer, and also

930
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,919
Speaker 3: what makes that brand and that business authentic and real.

931
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 3: And the more personality that you can bring your own personality,

932
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 3: the more people will connect with it and the more

933
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 3: people will engage with it. And that's why you know,

934
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 3: when you talk about the banks and there's no person personality,

935
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 3: that's what That's why Saint George does quite well because

936
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 3: they're more personal and engaging then than one of the

937
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 3: big four, you know, and they always bring that that.

938
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: That had the friendly dragon front exactly right.

939
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 3: So that's that. That's there, that's their Richard Branson version.

940
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that that's.

941
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 2: To me.

942
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: It's very interesting because I just had a lady in

943
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: here who's got a donut business and La Donuts, but

944
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: La Donuts is it's not a bad name and everything,

945
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 1: but really what she seems to do really successful is

946
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: put her personality behind it. When you say bring the

947
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 1: individual's personality out, does that mean the actual personality of

948
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: the person or do you does it know it has

949
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: to be authentic or does it just mean parts of

950
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 1: the personality. Do you sit down and say, what are

951
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: the type parts of my personality that would resonate with consumers?

952
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: My consumers are my product, my top of product, my

953
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: product suite is And who sits down? Who did you

954
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 1: sit down together or with somebody or a group and say, okay,

955
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 1: these are the personality traits of brands and that are

956
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: going to really suit an airline And you know you

957
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 1: might and you might. I'm sure brands got a thousand

958
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: personality traits maybe more. How do you do that? You

959
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:19,919
Speaker 1: actually sit there with a piece of paper and ask

960
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 1: other people.

961
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 3: So, yes, yes, so we we we we You know

962
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 3: you have those personalities to you identify those personality traits.

963
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 3: Then again in terms of in terms of the strategic process,

964
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 3: you're looking at the competitor set and how they're positioning themselves.

965
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 3: And then you're asking questions to the consumers as well,

966
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 3: saying what resonates most with you. So you're picking choosing, Yeah,

967
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 3: you're picking and choosing the best things, and you are

968
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 3: highlighting those particular traits that you want to bring to life,

969
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,439
Speaker 3: and you are, you know, you are delivering on those

970
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 3: and at the end of the day, they're authentic. What

971
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 3: you want to be is authentic, unique and ownable so

972
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 3: that you can different and shat yourself.

973
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 1: Because they're ours. Yes, no one else can claim.

974
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 3: That, No other airline can claim the Richard brand siness.

975
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he seems to be quite a

976
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: generous dude to me. Generosity is an important thing I think,

977
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: and one of the things I get from the Virgin

978
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 1: staff is that they're quite generous of spirit, just more friendly. Yes,

979
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: that tells me generosity. I just feel like they're less corporate.

980
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: And I'm talking domestically, probably internationally, I prefer quantus, but domestic.

981
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: If I'm flying from here to Brisboe, which to me

982
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 1: is like usually a punished I don't I travel every week.

983
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,399
Speaker 1: I don't want to have to fly anywhere. But when

984
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: they grow hello, I'm lacky. I'm in a sort of

985
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 1: a club thing and they know me much because I

986
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 1: travel every week. But that sense of friendship friendliness is

987
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:55,879
Speaker 1: quite a welcome thing at six point thirty in the morning,

988
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: seven in the morning, when you've just gone through blood security.

989
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 3: Those all those little nuances, they're all by design, and

990
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 3: they're all thought about, and they're all strategically planned to

991
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 3: differentiate from anybody else. I'll give you an example, right. So,

992
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 3: as part of the project when we started was looking

993
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 3: at the engagement and how the staff interact with with

994
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 3: the travelers, because you know, that's how you can differentiate

995
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 3: from quantas. So you know, in the mornings when you

996
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 3: travel with Virgin, the crew will usually get you to

997
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 3: get you to your seat as quick as possible and

998
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 3: no mucking around, you know, very light touch of engagement

999
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:47,359
Speaker 3: because when you are traveling in the morning, it's usually

1000
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 3: business people trying to get to their meeting down in Melbourne,

1001
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 3: and all they're thinking about is I've got to say

1002
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 3: this should I can't forget to say that I've got

1003
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 3: to pitch this and this is how much I've got

1004
00:54:55,800 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 3: to truck it. Then in the afternoons usually the crew

1005
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 3: a little bit more engaging, a little bit more jovial,

1006
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 3: a little bit more you know, do you want to

1007
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 3: have a drink because the meeting's over, you know, and

1008
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 3: that's where you can get more of the personality to

1009
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 3: come come through. So all those things are strategically planned

1010
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 3: and thought of as part of the brand's experience.

1011
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 1: Well, do you know, you guys to some extent, have

1012
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 1: made it impossible for a third airline. So when we

1013
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: come when we talk about to airline policy or Deblain

1014
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 1: because Blake, because I know, like when I think about it,

1015
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 1: because apart from the capital, the intensiveness of launching an airline,

1016
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: and this is part of the problem that the Rex

1017
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: probably had to doing this metro stuff. There's no brand,

1018
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: I mean, and not only are you not only do

1019
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: you need to develop a new brand Rex, but you

1020
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: need to cut through the other two brands which are

1021
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 1: so bloody strong and so well established and so well thought.

1022
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's there's always an opportunity for a third airline.

1023
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 3: There's always an opportunity. It can be done. And remember

1024
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 3: this was the This was the conundrum that JB had

1025
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 3: when he when he got the gig at Virgin. You

1026
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 3: know he's looking at it going cheese quantus own and

1027
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 3: dominate the business class travel. How the hell am I

1028
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 3: going to be? You need capital, Jesus, you need capital.

1029
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 2: Do it.

1030
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:17,879
Speaker 1: But it can do for a number of years.

1031
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 2: But can they do?

1032
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:23,399
Speaker 1: They just hung in there, you know the CEO role, Yeah,

1033
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: the visionary role, because that's obviously not Richard Brands because

1034
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:30,240
Speaker 1: he lives somewhere else. I mean, there's the local visionary.

1035
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 1: How important is it for a business owner to either

1036
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: have themselves or someone within the business who might be

1037
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: their CEO, to be the visionary for the business relative

1038
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:42,240
Speaker 1: to building the brand.

1039
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 2: You couldn't do your job when added, I mean they

1040
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 2: have to have a vision because we as designers, we

1041
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 2: need to implement that vision. You know, we don't create

1042
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 2: that vision. It's them that do that. They've got an

1043
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 2: idea about what they want from that business, what it

1044
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 2: needs to do in the future, or it's right. We

1045
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 2: need to make sure we implement that the right way.

1046
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 3: So I'll give you an example of that vision. So

1047
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 3: Football Australia so this is the soccer team. The soccer team.

1048
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 2: Yes.

1049
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 3: So when they came to us, they had their brand

1050
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 3: was all over the place. They had different.

1051
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 2: That one and that one.

1052
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 3: So they had, you know, a different brand for their

1053
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 3: national team and their Football Federation of Australia, and they

1054
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 3: had a different brand for the leagues. Each state and

1055
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 3: territory had a different brand. Even the grassroots program had

1056
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 3: a different It was all over the place. They wanted

1057
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 3: football Australia to be the number one sport in Australia

1058
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:47,960
Speaker 3: and we came to them and said, in order to

1059
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 3: be able to do that, you need to unify the code,

1060
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 3: have one look and feel across football as a code

1061
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 3: in Australia. You need to be able to demonstrate clear

1062
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 3: pathways from grassroots all the way way through to socceroos

1063
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 3: and matildas. And able to do that you need one vision,

1064
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 3: one purpose and one visual identity. Now the vision and

1065
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 3: purpose comes from the CEO and the exec team and

1066
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 3: once that's defined then we are able to articulate that

1067
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 3: and bring that to life in a visual identity. So

1068
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 3: now what you see is as you see on that page,

1069
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 3: you can see a unified look and feel for football

1070
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 3: and clear pathways from grassroots all the way through. You

1071
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 3: can see links between State and Football Federation of Australia.

1072
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 3: You can see links between the Socceros and matildas. It

1073
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 3: is now one code, one brand, one sport.

1074
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 1: And what has been Maybe it's a hard question, a

1075
00:58:54,120 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: hard question to answer. What has been your favorite brand work?

1076
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 2: Okay, so that is that is probably the hardest question

1077
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 2: you've asked all morning, right, because there are so many

1078
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 2: favorite brands that I've got there. What they're out there?

1079
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 2: You know, you name it, Tronga, Zoo, you know all

1080
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 2: of those, right, but even Kleenex, hargis packaging. All that

1081
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 2: stuff is out there. What you probably see our brand

1082
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 2: every day of your life, right, because it's just out there.

1083
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: If I pick one, pick an exciting one.

1084
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 2: But if I pick one right, then probably all my

1085
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 2: other clients are going to be pissed off because they're

1086
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 2: going to say, well, why didn't you choose me?

1087
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: Which was one of the most challenging in terms of

1088
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: a turnaround.

1089
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 2: Look, I think that I must say, and they'll be

1090
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 2: coming back to where we started, right. I think that

1091
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 2: probably Woolworths would have been the number one only because

1092
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 2: that's a revolutionary what they wanted right for most other

1093
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 2: clients be tweaked, we we we updated with all that,

1094
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 2: but that was just so unique what we had to

1095
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 2: do there, right, you know, it had to connect with

1096
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 2: our customers that had connect with their employees. Like I

1097
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 2: said earlier, called that very complex and to come to

1098
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 2: a very simple solution, a timeless, simple solution, and that

1099
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 2: takes something might But now, I mean you can't, you

1100
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 2: cannot not see it. It's everywhere this brand, right, and

1101
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 2: it's part of the landscape of Australia, you know, anywhere

1102
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 2: you go, it's there, and of course in New Zealand

1103
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 2: as well. Now, so the the that probably just really

1104
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 2: stood out. And the other thing also, be honest, I

1105
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 2: loved working with those people. Oh yeah mate, they were.

1106
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 1: They're tough, like I would I love that. Yeah, why not?

1107
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 2: Because tough means that are passionate. They know what they want.

1108
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 2: You know, they would not just say yeah we'll have that,

1109
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 2: no bloody wave.

1110
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 1: They challenge you.

1111
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 2: They challenge that was serious salads And look, I'm a

1112
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 2: kind of person I won't give up. I mean, to me,

1113
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 2: it's always all or nothing, doesn't matter what job I do,

1114
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 2: right and it's just that was just really stood out

1115
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 2: for me. I didn't. It's it's so it's I find

1116
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 2: so proud when I walk around town and I see it,

1117
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 2: you know, I see it everywhere now people walk away

1118
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 2: Wooly's bags everywhere. Right, it's just out there, and it's

1119
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 2: fantastic that that, you know, Wilvers have taken it on

1120
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 2: and rolling it out, you know, like there's no tomorrow.

1121
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 2: And like I said, the brand today is stronger than

1122
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 2: it ever was, and I will probably still be growing

1123
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 2: as it goes. But you know, I love Rebel and

1124
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 2: that was a really cool joint you had.

1125
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 3: You had Erica on here a couple of months ago.

1126
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 3: Erica was at the time, she was the head of marketing,

1127
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 3: so she was the one who brief times, she was

1128
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 3: the one who was in the boardroom for for for

1129
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 3: the five minutes saying this.

1130
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 2: Is the brain No, I said, so I know. I said, look,

1131
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 2: I've done it in a couple of minutes, and I

1132
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,439
Speaker 2: think this is right. Then she goes, well, I can't

1133
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 2: go to my board and say you did this in

1134
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 2: two minutes, so do me no, no, But she was like,

1135
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 2: do me not a ten please, you know, like and

1136
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 2: then I can walk them through it and all that said. Yeah,

1137
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 2: of course, you know that's if that's how it gets

1138
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 2: across the line. FA no worries, you know, it's it's

1139
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 2: what it is. You know, there's a there's other jobs

1140
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: I can or sometimes you know, I scratching my hat,

1141
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:45,439
Speaker 2: right g I oh, okay, I did that thirty five

1142
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 2: years ago. Today it is still exactly the way I

1143
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 2: decided it back then. It's never changed, you.

1144
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: Know, And that's kind of cool. Yes, it's kind of cool.

1145
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 2: To that that happens, you know, those kind of things.

1146
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 2: But then on the other hand, you know, foundations, but

1147
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 2: McGrath foundations, So I'm really proud of that job too.

1148
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 2: That is beautiful and it works and it helps, you know,

1149
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 2: it helps that organization to erase funds and we've done

1150
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 2: so many of those, you know, women shelters. You're not

1151
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 2: all that stuff we do on the site as well, though,

1152
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 2: because you've got to give back. You know, there's no data.

1153
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: But a lot of people will be listening to this

1154
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 1: and they'll be going, I I was okay for them,

1155
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 1: they're doing w worse and you know, they're big clients,

1156
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 1: and you know, I can't afford that. But because you know,

1157
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 1: I've got hundreds of thousands of people who listen to

1158
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 1: the show, and they're all trying to set up their

1159
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 1: little business, and they're all trying a lot of retailing

1160
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: that they have to go to customers, so they're sort

1161
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 1: of retailing. What would you say to those people some

1162
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 1: simple bits of advice from both of you as to

1163
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 1: what they should be thinking about in terms of building

1164
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 1: their brands. And most of these people are individuals, some

1165
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:03,000
Speaker 1: are of products and offering service. They're all going to

1166
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 1: have a website, They're a going to be Instagram, We're

1167
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 1: going to Facebook, TikTok et, cetera. They're all going to

1168
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 1: talk to their customers. What would you say would be

1169
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:13,439
Speaker 1: just a couple of bits.

1170
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 3: It's very simple. Okay, So know yourself.

1171
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 1: What does that mean though?

1172
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 3: So know who you are and what your business is about.

1173
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 2: Yep.

1174
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 3: Know your customer who it is that you're talking to.

1175
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 3: By knowing those two things, you'll know how to then

1176
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 3: communicate to them. And know your competitors set as well.

1177
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 3: You know yourself, you know your customer, you know your

1178
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 3: competitor set. Then you're able to differentiate and communicate your

1179
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 3: difference to that audience.

1180
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 1: So it's it important to communicate your difference absolutely why

1181
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just selling you know whatever, I'm selling health services.

1182
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 1: But this is why I'm different. Yes, this is what's

1183
01:04:57,720 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 1: different about my my pitch.

1184
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly right.

1185
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 1: And you can only do that if the only way

1186
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 1: you know you're different is yourself. But know what everybody

1187
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 1: else is doing to it?

1188
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 2: Yes, there's also another side to it. Right, never waiver?

1189
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 1: Right, what do you mean by that?

1190
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 2: Never? You've got a set of values when you start

1191
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 2: that business, right, never, never divert from that. Right, you

1192
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 2: want to make a commitment starting a business, You've got

1193
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 2: a set of values, leave by them and don't change it. Never.

1194
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 2: You know's there's no points. Stick to what you set

1195
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 2: out to do.

1196
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:35,919
Speaker 1: Because I know that I know you when you show

1197
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 1: me the war worst one wars said here for the

1198
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 1: fresh food people, I mean, if I don't have the

1199
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 1: ability to design something like this, which is most people,

1200
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 1: is that would be the case for most people? Do

1201
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 1: you just say the thing that you believe in, they

1202
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:54,479
Speaker 1: give it a strap line like that. The fresh food people,

1203
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 1: I mean, like whatever we do that at times, if

1204
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 1: I'm just an individual do I the sort of thing

1205
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 1: I should do if I can't ever come up with

1206
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 1: one of these things, because I'm never going to come

1207
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 1: up with it. Most people can never come up with

1208
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 1: that and they can't afford to pay somebody. But should

1209
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 1: they say, look, this is what we are, this is

1210
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: what's different about us. We're a fresh food people. Yes,

1211
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 1: very much. Any other business, any business I want to

1212
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 1: talk about, so they know they're the competitors doing, they

1213
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 1: know where they're good out and what they stand for.

1214
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: They can find the point of difference. Should they just

1215
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 1: simply say that's what it is?

1216
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 3: Very much?

1217
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 1: So just say it?

1218
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, just say just say say what's on the tin? Yeah,

1219
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 3: and deliver what's in the tin?

1220
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1221
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Fresh with People or whatever the case may be.

1222
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 3: The spirit of Australia.

1223
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's already taken by the way everybody. You

1224
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:44,919
Speaker 1: can't use that one, but all the fresh with people.

1225
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 3: But yeah, so be be out there, be prepared to

1226
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 3: say it, Be be prepared to say it, be out there,

1227
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 3: be authentic, be unique, and be true to yourself. If

1228
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 3: you do those things, you will succeed.

1229
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 1: Only because many many years ago, when I had the

1230
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 1: whiz business, and John Singleton was an advertising agency, and

1231
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 1: then me and Singo, I think Kerry said to me

1232
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 1: lessen Son, we're going to go to the market. And

1233
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 1: you know, because Singer was at Singleton the smy mother,

1234
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 1: we become OGI. Anyway, he was our agency. And then

1235
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: Kerry said, we've got to go to the market. So

1236
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 1: I said, okay, so went to the market. Of course,

1237
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 1: Singer said, I'm not going to pitch like that.

1238
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:27,600
Speaker 2: I do that like you know.

1239
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: Anyway, we didn't end up with anyone, but I ended

1240
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 1: up speaking to his son, Jack Singleton, who was at

1241
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 1: a place called Jack Watts. And Jack's a great friend

1242
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 1: of mine and Jack so Jack won the one of

1243
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: the job. And we're actually he did that research you're

1244
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 1: talking about, and but we're talking to me and viewing

1245
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 1: me staff blah blah blah customers. And when he came

1246
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 1: out with his strap line, which is sort of the

1247
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 1: way I thought about our business at the time, and

1248
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: the strap line was well, first he changed our colors.

1249
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 1: Our colors were yellow and blue. He changed the colors

1250
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: to orange, so we were orange, black and white. But

1251
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: the reason he put orange in there because every time

1252
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:11,120
Speaker 1: we advertise with the color it only costs us one

1253
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 1: extra color is because those had to pay for extra colors.

1254
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 1: Before I had yellow and blue, I had to play

1255
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 1: for yellow, blue and white, which is two extra colors

1256
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 1: cost me more money in newspapers. So he said, you've

1257
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 1: got three colors, but you only paid for one. And

1258
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 1: he said orange is a nice warm color. People like

1259
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:30,960
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But the strapline was no judgments,

1260
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:34,840
Speaker 1: just homelines. And I thought that's perfect because that actually

1261
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 1: was my value. My proposition was. I used to be

1262
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 1: very upset in those days. It's not the same, but

1263
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 1: in those days, if you walked into a bank and

1264
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:47,560
Speaker 1: the bank didn't know you, or you weren't wealthy, or

1265
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 1: you're a Greek like you know, you know, Greek factory worker,

1266
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 1: father like ahead, or you're a young single woman, or

1267
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:58,719
Speaker 1: you're a pregnant white walking with white pregnant you got judged.

1268
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 1: You're worried you're going to get judged and you might

1269
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:04,640
Speaker 1: not get the homeland. And that was the thing that

1270
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 1: was the reason I sat wizard up in the beginning.

1271
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 1: That was the whole reason I thought there's got to

1272
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:12,800
Speaker 1: be an alternative. And we didn't have poor credit. We

1273
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 1: just didn't judge you on qualitative things. And I mentioned

1274
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:17,599
Speaker 1: that telling Jack that the story that story he come

1275
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:19,679
Speaker 1: up with the straight line, no judgments, just homewards.

1276
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 3: So the reason why that's so great it worked exactly.

1277
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 3: So the reason why that's great is because what he's

1278
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 3: done is he has identified a consumer insight and then

1279
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:35,600
Speaker 3: brought that to life simplist, simplistically right, and so that

1280
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 3: people understand automatically what you mean when you say that.

1281
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 3: So that's what I mean by you know, know yourself.

1282
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 1: Or you just remind him of when you explain it

1283
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:45,680
Speaker 1: to me, because that's that's exactly.

1284
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:48,240
Speaker 3: What you know yourself, know, you know your audience. So

1285
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 3: what it is that they're looking for and what it

1286
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 3: is they'll connect with. And then the third thing is

1287
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 3: know the competitor set, know that these big four only

1288
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,680
Speaker 3: care about numbers and that they will treat you as

1289
01:09:57,720 --> 01:09:59,640
Speaker 3: a number. And so how do you flip that on

1290
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 3: It's which is exactly what you described, and how it's

1291
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:03,160
Speaker 3: well that to life.

1292
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 1: Not that to say that today, because if you say

1293
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 1: that today, the regulator will be on your doors to

1294
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 1: well you're supposed to judge them. But I was simply

1295
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: saying I don't judge on qualitative reasons just because you've

1296
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: got black skin or your female or whatever the case

1297
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 1: may be. You know, like, actually lending money is all

1298
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:23,640
Speaker 1: about making judgments, to be frank with you, a bit

1299
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 1: more quantitative judgments. But it's very interesting. And I think

1300
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: you for explaining that to our audience, because I think

1301
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 1: our audience is but I think what you're saying to

1302
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 1: me is it doesn't really matter whether you're a big

1303
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 1: customer or you're a small client. It's the same process

1304
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: you've got to go through absolutely, just whether the big

1305
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:46,479
Speaker 1: customers a lot more complex because you've got to ask

1306
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 1: people a lot more questions and it goes over a

1307
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 1: longer period of time.

1308
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 3: That's the difference. But the approach is the same. The

1309
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 3: insights that you're looking for in the conversations that you're

1310
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:58,960
Speaker 3: having with the same types of stakeholders. There may not

1311
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 3: be a million stakeholders, they wouldn't Willies, but what we

1312
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:06,080
Speaker 3: are looking for inspiration wise for Hahns and the creative

1313
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:10,720
Speaker 3: team is exactly the same. And these are the conversations

1314
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,880
Speaker 3: that I have with potential clients that are not not

1315
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 3: everyone is Willies, Not everyone is a quantus. And the

1316
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 3: question they asked me, is why you know we're not Willies,

1317
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 3: but so why would you want to work with us?

1318
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 3: And my response is, it's not about the size of

1319
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 3: a company. It's about the opportunity to do something new

1320
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:32,759
Speaker 3: and do something unique and help you on your journey

1321
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 3: and define who you are as an organization and bring

1322
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 3: that to life. That's what gets us excited, that's what

1323
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 3: gets us out of bed.

1324
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:46,799
Speaker 1: Well, and I love this bit about typeface, tone of voice,

1325
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:51,040
Speaker 1: primary colors or photographic stones, all.

1326
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 3: These new things. And as I said, there's all these

1327
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:56,639
Speaker 3: things that are designed and defined that usually you normal

1328
01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 3: people would just take for granted. And now when as

1329
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:00,639
Speaker 3: Hans said, and new so when you look at will

1330
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 3: Is you just automatically get everything about them, says fresh Food. Yeah,

1331
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 3: and that's ultimately what we have looked to do for

1332
01:12:07,439 --> 01:12:08,000
Speaker 3: our clients.

1333
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:13,880
Speaker 1: Well, Hans and Jade Holdsbosch a good Netherlands Dutch name.

1334
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:17,920
Speaker 1: I really appreciate thank you coming on, but more importantly

1335
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:21,320
Speaker 1: I appreciate you Jay are actually pulling me out when

1336
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 1: we're sort of walking along there at the airport. Actually

1337
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:29,560
Speaker 1: was in the Virgin terminal, Turgent. But I appreciate you

1338
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 1: sort of reaching out to me and grabbing me, and

1339
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 1: it was funny.

1340
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 2: You know.

1341
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 1: What got me was the level of excitement. You guys

1342
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:39,720
Speaker 1: got a big business and you don't need me, but

1343
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:41,840
Speaker 1: the level of excitement that you had in terms of

1344
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:44,640
Speaker 1: trying to describe what you and your father, particularly what

1345
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 1: your father has done and for which clients he's done

1346
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 1: it for, was like it was again etched in my memory.

1347
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:54,640
Speaker 1: I actually I could remember it so clearly. I appreciate

1348
01:12:54,760 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 1: that because that's pretty cool for a big organization to

1349
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 1: still feel that way. To look where we are.

1350
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:04,040
Speaker 3: You know, it's a family run business, right, and that's

1351
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 3: very very unique in this country as a family business

1352
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 3: to be working on these sort of clients, because usually

1353
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,679
Speaker 3: in the States or in Europe in the UK, these

1354
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,920
Speaker 3: types of businesses like the largest supermarket or the national

1355
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 3: airline is not run and done by some family business.

1356
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 3: It's done by some big coal exactly right. And you know,

1357
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 3: we're very very proud of that work and still excited

1358
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 3: by the opportunities that.

1359
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:35,719
Speaker 1: Are to come for us great Australian business, you guys,

1360
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,720
Speaker 1: and thanks for sharing your insights to lots of other

1361
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: great Australians who are trying to get to where worse

1362
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 1: and virgin and rebel and everybody else has already got to. Thanks, guys, appreciate,

1363
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:48,640
Speaker 1: thank you, Thank you.

1364
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 2: To do, to do, to do,