1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: It's Friday, September five, twenty twenty five. Daniel Andrews has 3 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,159 Speaker 1: used his highly contentious trip to China to sprook the 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: benefits of a closer economic relationship with Australia and invite 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: senior Chinese officials to Melbourne. But sources say the former 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: Victorian premiers trip is really about access, influence and big money. 7 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: That exclusive story is live right now at the Australian 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: dot Com dot a U. The High Court is thrown 9 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: out a bid by Victoria Cross recipient Ben Roberts Smith 10 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: to appeal a judge's finding he committed war crimes in Afghanistan. 11 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: The former essays soldier is out of chances to overturn 12 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: the findings made by Federal Court Judge Anthony Bisanko in 13 00:00:54,520 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: defamation proceedings initiated by Robert Smith. Here come the isis 14 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: brides and the political spin. Multiple agencies of the Commonwealth 15 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: and state governments are making plans for the repatriation of 16 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 1: Australian women and children stranded in the Middle East. Prime 17 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: Minister Anthony Alberanezi is trying to dodge The Australian's revelation 18 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: this will be the third cohort of wives and kids 19 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: returning to Australia from the remnants of the so called caliphate. Today, 20 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: how police revealed what's really going on behind the attempts 21 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: to manage the message those reports are not accurate. Liam 22 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: Mendez is the Australians journalist who broke this story on Tuesday. Liam, 23 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: it must be quite startling to hear the Prime Minister 24 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: denying something that you've had on page one of the Australian. 25 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: It was it was an interesting choice of words from 26 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 2: the Prime Minister. He said, in very very few words, 27 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 2: essentially that the story is not accurate. If it was 28 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 2: completely wrong, he would have said that, you know, there 29 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: is no truth to this. But what I think is 30 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: happening is that, you know, the government is really trying 31 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 2: to argue at semantics here. They're essentially complaining that we're 32 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: missing a comma at the bottom paragraph eight. They're trying 33 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 2: to find something small to deny the entirety of the story. 34 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: And the reason for that is that the last time, 35 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 2: in October twenty two, when a similar operation occurred, the 36 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 2: government received a huge amount of blowback we're talking about 37 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: in for example, Western Sydney, where a lot of these 38 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 2: people were repatriated, it was described as a dumping ground. 39 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: But the fact of the matter is Satan federal agencies 40 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: are preparing for Isis bride stranded in northern Syria to 41 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: be returned home before Christmas. 42 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: We've seen this movie before, haven't we. 43 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 3: I think it's appalling that Australians have gone and fought 44 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 3: against our values and our way of life and peace 45 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 3: loving countries of the world and joining the days fight. 46 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 3: I think it's even more despicable that they put their 47 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 3: children in the middle of it. 48 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, the first cohort of Isis families came home. 49 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two another group. But every time the 50 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: federal politicians are caught between their desire to resolve a 51 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: very difficult issue. Countries like Syria don't want these people 52 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: on their hands anymore. They're getting pressure from the humanitarian 53 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: organizations that run these camps saying you have a responsibility. 54 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: These people are Australian passport holders, and yet the government 55 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: doesn't want to be blamed if ultimately these families back 56 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: here in Australia find themselves caught up in a terror event. 57 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: Let's say fifteen years into the future, one of these 58 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: children grows up arrested and accused of plotting a terror 59 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: attack because they were radicalized as a child. That's the 60 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: night Miss scenario for the government, isn't it. 61 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: Well, that's right. There are very dangerous people who are 62 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: radicalized in these camps. Now, the people that are coming 63 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: back to Australia are very young, very easily influenced. These 64 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 2: people returning are going to have to be very carefully managed. 65 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 2: There's specific deradicalization programs that are run by the state governments. 66 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: They are in place to keep us safe and to 67 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 2: ensure the people that are more influenced by some of 68 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: the more radical elements of Islam are not a danger 69 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: to our society. 70 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like witness protection on steroids, isn't it. On 71 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: one hand, there has to be privacy for these people 72 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: new identities. They have to be able to explain to 73 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: their new neighbors where they've been for the past decade. 74 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: And then also there has to be high levels of 75 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: help and support to help kids reintegrate to school, to 76 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: help women find their way back in society. Probably now 77 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: as widows. Let's talk about the details of some of 78 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: these families. It's been reported that one of the Isis 79 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: brides in this cohort, and of course we haven't got 80 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: this confirmed because there's so much secrecy about it, is 81 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: a Sydney woman called Nesrine Zahab who kind of tricked 82 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: her family and escaped from a family holiday in Lebanon, 83 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: went to the war zone, married an Australian man who 84 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: was fighting with Islamic State. He's now dead. She's in 85 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: a refugee camp with her child, and her family wants 86 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: her to be able to come home. She did make 87 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: a choice to go to this place. She's now in 88 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: this awful situation. It's a hard one for policymakers. 89 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: It absolutely is. But I think what we have to 90 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 2: do is and as absurd as it might sound, is 91 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: really try and put ourselves in the position of a 92 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 2: twenty one year old who's possibly very easily influenced. And 93 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: you know, sitting here as a thirty year old male, 94 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: you do think, you know, how on earth does that happen? 95 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: But you also think back at some of the things 96 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 2: that you did at twenty one. Sure I didn't head 97 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 2: over to Syria and get married to someone. But what 98 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: if that was your sister, What if that had just 99 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 2: gone off and made that horrific, horrific choice. A lot 100 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 2: of people think that, you know, you make your bed, 101 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 2: you lie in it. But at the end of the day, 102 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 2: she's Australian and so is her child. And like Scott 103 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: Morrison said in twenty nineteen, children shouldn't be punished for 104 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 2: the sins of their parents. We're talking about five year 105 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 2: old children who couldn't say their parents, I don't want 106 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 2: to go here or I didn't want to be born here. 107 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 2: And that's I think for me, is the saddest part 108 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: of this story. 109 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: So then another twist when a senior in New South 110 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: Wealth Police officer Dave hards It appeared before New South 111 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: Wales Parliament's budget estimates, where he's required to answer any 112 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: questions that have put to him. He was asked kind 113 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 1: of as a matter of fact, what role the New 114 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: South Wales Police would have in repatriating this group of people, 115 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: and he started talking about it as though it was 116 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: an accepted fact that this was happening. 117 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you, commissioner. We are still working through that 118 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 4: issue with the Commonwealth. If the AFP don't play as 119 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 4: significant role as they have previously. We will, We'll have 120 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 4: to work that out. 121 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: Which what's some. 122 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 4: Meetings next week in Canberra has aligned with Australian New 123 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 4: Zealand Counter Terrian and Committee meeting where I'll try and 124 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 4: explore that further. Obviously, New Southwal's government have a huge 125 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 4: role with justice and health and education and everyone else 126 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 4: in the reintegration of these individuals back into New South 127 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 4: Wales society, as we have done previously. 128 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: That must have given you some comfortly and after the 129 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: Prime Minister and den't I your story? 130 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 2: Yes and no, I mean I was pretty comfortable with 131 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: the story in the first place. And you know this 132 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: is something that multiple agencies have been dealing with quite 133 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 2: closely in the last week. Dave Hudson is a very 134 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: matter of fact type of guy. He was just sitting 135 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: there and he answered the question. He's not a politician. 136 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: He wasn't trying to skirt around the answer. This is 137 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 2: business is usual for the New South Wales Police and 138 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: they are very good at keeping very close eye on 139 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 2: anyone that possibly might be exposed to violent extremism. 140 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: Can the Prime Minister explain this contradiction? 141 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 4: Thank hid there is no contradiction between my answer. Yessay 142 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 4: was absolutely correct. 143 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 2: Communist. 144 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 4: Are you calling the New South Wales Police Deputy Commissioner 145 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 4: David Hudson aliar that is an outrageous suggests you. 146 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 3: I confirm that the Australian government is not providing assistance 147 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 3: to this. 148 00:08:53,520 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: Cohort coming up the horrific copeal of ISIS for some 149 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: foreign fighters and whether things should be different for the 150 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: women and children. It's easy to forget how awful ISIS 151 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: was and how scary. I think we remember those images 152 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: of journalists being burnt alive in cages, of people being 153 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: pushed off buildings, and one of the scary things about 154 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: Australians who went to fight with ISIS was that they 155 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: were radicalized, often on social media by these kinds of videos, 156 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: by absolutely horrendous things happening. But I think the reality 157 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: when they got there, for particularly the women and children 158 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: who they took with them, was that ISIS was a 159 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: horrendously misogynistic and dangerous organization. Life was hell. They never 160 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: achieved the caliphate that they were seeking to establish. They've 161 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: lived through an awful period of time. This is a 162 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: very different conversation, isn't it to the one we'd be 163 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: having if we were talking about repatriating men who had 164 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: been fighters. 165 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. You bring up an interesting point there. 166 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 2: I a couple of years ago spent a fair bit 167 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 2: of time with a fellow named na I Mean, and 168 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: he spent five years in jail after pleading guilty to 169 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 2: preparing for a terror attack in his parents' homeland of Bangladesh. 170 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,839 Speaker 2: I think he's an example of someone who has been 171 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 2: released from prison and has been able to successfully reintegrate 172 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 2: himself into society. He's made some new friends, He's got 173 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 2: himself a laboring job. This was about two years ago 174 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 2: when I spoke to him. Advocates would say that we 175 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 2: have a duty to these women and children. You know, 176 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:49,079 Speaker 2: if the men are able to be reintegrated into society, 177 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 2: then why can't these women and children, who often cases 178 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 2: have been forced to the Middle East. 179 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: Mendez is a journalist with The Australian. You can read 180 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: his series of exclusives right now at The Australian dot 181 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: com dot au