WEBVTT - What 'tough on crime' means in Queensland

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>The L and P has been in the political wilderness

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<v Speaker 1>in Queensland for most of the past three decades, but

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<v Speaker 1>in a month's time that's likely to change. After an

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<v Speaker 1>election campaign fought on youth crime. The youth crime crisis

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<v Speaker 1>has changed the way queensland.

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<v Speaker 2>Has lived their life.

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<v Speaker 3>Our faith in the safety of our community has been shaken.

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<v Speaker 1>Youth crime is shaping up as an election issue in

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<v Speaker 1>Queensland as well. So far, the.

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<v Speaker 2>Statement adult Crime Adult Tide.

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<v Speaker 1>Yesterday llen P leader David Chrissa fully and now its

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<v Speaker 1>courts would be able to access young people's full, familiar

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<v Speaker 1>histories even after they turned eighteen. It's a move legal

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<v Speaker 1>experts say is cheap and won't change rates of offending.

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<v Speaker 1>Ifour criminal history should be there to be factored into

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<v Speaker 1>any future decision. If government changes in October, they will

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<v Speaker 1>be launched by Christmas. But all this tough talk a

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<v Speaker 1>more complicated story about why children commit crimes. Today we

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<v Speaker 1>hear from a survivor of Queensland's youth justice system about

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<v Speaker 1>the impact of punitive policies and what helped her escape

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<v Speaker 1>the cycle. It's Thursday, September twenty six. Christine, thank you

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<v Speaker 1>so much for speaking with this. Can you start by

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<v Speaker 1>introducing yourself.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so my name is Christine. I live in Queensland.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm a mom of three little girls and I currently

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<v Speaker 3>work in the child and youth sector and have done

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<v Speaker 3>so for a few years.

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<v Speaker 1>We know that in Queensland at the moment there's a

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<v Speaker 1>big push for action on youth crime and it's been

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<v Speaker 1>dominating the election debate in Queensland Land. What we never

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<v Speaker 1>hear from is young people who have actually been subject

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<v Speaker 1>to the youth justice system. We know that you have,

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<v Speaker 1>so I'm hoping we could talk about your own experience

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<v Speaker 1>if that's okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely.

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<v Speaker 3>So both my parents were addicted to methan fedmin There

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<v Speaker 3>was a lot of sexual abuse and physical abuse in

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<v Speaker 3>the home, and a lot of exposure to domestic violence.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was removed at the age of five years old.

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<v Speaker 3>There'd been quite a few child protection concerns and notifications

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<v Speaker 3>before that. I was in a couple different foster care

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<v Speaker 3>homes for a few years and my introduction to the

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<v Speaker 3>youth justice system was around the age of twelve, so

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<v Speaker 3>I should have been in my final year of primary school.

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<v Speaker 3>At that point, I was on a child protection order,

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<v Speaker 3>but was homeless at the time. I was living at

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<v Speaker 3>a bus stop. My first ever offense that I was

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<v Speaker 3>arrested for was shoplifting, and I had shoplifted ra bubbles

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<v Speaker 3>and milk.

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<v Speaker 2>From the local coals.

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<v Speaker 3>That was my first interaction with police, and I was

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<v Speaker 3>charged with the offense rather than given a caution, And

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<v Speaker 3>in the same day I was also charged with trespassing

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<v Speaker 3>because they found that I had been sleeping at the

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<v Speaker 3>bus stop and my belongings were there.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you recall how you felt when the police arrested

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<v Speaker 1>you and put you in the justice system. What was

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<v Speaker 1>going through your mind.

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<v Speaker 3>I remember being quite embarrassed and really quite upset.

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<v Speaker 2>I was treated quite poorly by the police.

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<v Speaker 3>They recognized my last name and could link that back

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<v Speaker 3>to my family, So I just remember being really kind

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<v Speaker 3>of angry and also embarrassed. And I also thought, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>like once they had arrested me, that they would not

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<v Speaker 3>be able to release me back to homelessness. I kind

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<v Speaker 3>of thought, oh, well, now somebody will have to call

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<v Speaker 3>child safety and I'll be put in a house.

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<v Speaker 2>But that didn't happen.

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<v Speaker 3>They did really me just back out into the street,

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<v Speaker 3>and I remember just being really hurt by that. And

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think I felt that a lot as a

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<v Speaker 3>kid because I was so used to kind of being

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<v Speaker 3>let down, but that one really hurt me.

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<v Speaker 1>So the place put you back out on the street.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell me what it was like living on

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<v Speaker 1>the streets and being homeless, and what sort of community

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<v Speaker 1>you had around you, what sort of people you would

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<v Speaker 1>associate with.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so for me, there wasn't a lot of homeless

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<v Speaker 3>youth around. There would be times where there would be

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<v Speaker 3>a few, but often those young people were not on

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<v Speaker 3>child protection orders, so they were able to go to

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<v Speaker 3>youth homelessness shelters. And I was too young for a

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<v Speaker 3>homeless shelter, and they also wouldn't take a child on

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<v Speaker 3>a child protection order. So most of my time being

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<v Speaker 3>homeless was me keeping to myself and being alone or

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<v Speaker 3>being around older typically men that had been homeless for

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<v Speaker 3>long periods of time, and I would hang out with

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<v Speaker 3>them and stay around them. I remember, you know, like

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<v Speaker 3>trying to shower at public bathrooms and stuff. I would

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<v Speaker 3>try and go near where a beach was because often

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<v Speaker 3>there was a shower there. I would have to try

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<v Speaker 3>and charge my phone in shopping center car parks, but

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<v Speaker 3>I would be moved on or be charged with another

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<v Speaker 3>trespassing offence for being on shopping center property. When I'm

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<v Speaker 3>not shopping, I would try and sleep in the day

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<v Speaker 3>so I could be awake at night, because typically at

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<v Speaker 3>night was when it was most unsafe for a girl

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<v Speaker 3>to be homeless and alone amongst a lot of older,

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<v Speaker 3>typically males. Being on a child protection order meant that

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<v Speaker 3>there was one system that was supposed to care for

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<v Speaker 3>me and provide protection and they were unable.

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<v Speaker 2>To do that.

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<v Speaker 3>It meant that no other systems could kind of step

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<v Speaker 3>in because we have this reliance on the child protection system, right,

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<v Speaker 3>so they weren't doing their job. There was no one

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<v Speaker 3>else that was allowed to so any decision, including accessing

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<v Speaker 3>any health services or accessing any community program needed consent

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<v Speaker 3>because I was under eighteen and the state was my guardian,

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<v Speaker 3>so it would appear on paper right that I have

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<v Speaker 3>an active guardian who's able to provide consent.

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<v Speaker 2>However, that wasn't the case.

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<v Speaker 3>There were quite a few times that I did do

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<v Speaker 3>things that I knew could.

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<v Speaker 2>Get me caught, and I knew would be just enough.

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<v Speaker 3>To get me into youth detention so I could keep

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<v Speaker 3>myself safe for a short period of time.

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<v Speaker 2>I could sleep at night.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't have to worry about strangers and keeping myself safe.

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<v Speaker 3>It meant I was fed and I knew what time

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<v Speaker 3>my meal would come at. I could have a shower,

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<v Speaker 3>I would have clean clothing and a roof over my head.

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<v Speaker 3>So going to juvie was my best option to keep

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<v Speaker 3>myself safe.

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<v Speaker 1>Christine's story isn't unique in order to genials. Report into

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<v Speaker 1>youth crime in Queensland points to the fact that many

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<v Speaker 1>young offenders are themselves victims victims of abuse, neglect, family violence,

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<v Speaker 1>and intergenerational trauma. These are young people with no options

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<v Speaker 1>and little prospect, no leavers to pull in order to

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<v Speaker 1>change their predicament. They experience poor health, mental health issues

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<v Speaker 1>and behavioral disorders. Invariably it's healthcare they need, but instead

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<v Speaker 1>they are criminalized through the justice system fod OF for

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<v Speaker 1>courts and for prisons. The same report shows that for

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<v Speaker 1>the most part, youth crime in Queen's Lane is actually

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<v Speaker 1>stable and in some areas tracking down, but a spate

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<v Speaker 1>of high profile and incredibly distressing violent crimes have led

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<v Speaker 1>to a political situation where both major parties afflicting their

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<v Speaker 1>tough on crime credentials.

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<v Speaker 2>Five teenagers are tonight under arrest in relation to the

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<v Speaker 2>stabbing death of a Queensland grandmother in a shopping The.

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<v Speaker 1>Teenager who stamped Northlake's mum, Emma Lovell, has pleaded guilty

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<v Speaker 1>to murder. In a sudden and surprise development, a teenage

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<v Speaker 1>boy has been charged with the murders of two people

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<v Speaker 1>after a crash in an allegedly stolen four wheel drive

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<v Speaker 1>on Brisbane's by Side. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I think those are really horrific things that occurred and

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<v Speaker 3>there's nothing anybody can say to make that better.

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<v Speaker 2>Those types of crime that that's not my experience.

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<v Speaker 3>Those aren't things that I engaged in all that people

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<v Speaker 3>I knew and have now worked with as an adult,

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<v Speaker 3>those aren't typical of what I'm seeing young people.

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<v Speaker 2>They're offending. It's a lot of like.

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<v Speaker 3>Survival crime type of stuff, and we need to address

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<v Speaker 3>the root cause of offending, why it's happening. What's going

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<v Speaker 3>on for those young people are their undiagnosed disabilities, because

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<v Speaker 3>we know that's a major issue and until we can

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<v Speaker 3>adequately address all of those concerns, we can't expect to

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<v Speaker 3>see the youth crime rates get significantly better.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break what it's actually like for a child

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<v Speaker 1>in an adult watchhouse. Recently, horrific footage has emerged showing

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<v Speaker 1>the why children have been treated in some of the

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<v Speaker 1>adult holding cells in Queensland. The video show young people panicked,

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<v Speaker 1>struggling to breathe and locked in freezing cold cells with

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<v Speaker 1>adult prisoners in other cells. Just meets away. As a child,

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<v Speaker 1>Christine spent time in adult watchhouses, so that footage, while upsetting,

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<v Speaker 1>didn't shock her.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I.

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<v Speaker 3>Would really like to go to Juvie for the protection,

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<v Speaker 3>but the watchhouse in between was what was quite scary.

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<v Speaker 2>Often I would.

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<v Speaker 3>Be the only or one of very few children in

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<v Speaker 3>the watchhouse with typically a lot of intoxicated adults, usually men.

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<v Speaker 3>So I remember one time I would have been about

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<v Speaker 3>twelve or thirteen in a watchhouse and in a cell

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<v Speaker 3>across from me there was a man who had exposed

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<v Speaker 3>his genitals to me and was yelling out to me

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<v Speaker 3>some QUI gross things and I just had to sit there.

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<v Speaker 2>There was nowhere I could go to escape that.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think for me, like I have quite a

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<v Speaker 3>history of childhood trauma and stuff. So those types of

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<v Speaker 3>experiences really impacted me and my mental health. There were

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<v Speaker 3>times where female sanitary products were denied, we didn't have

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<v Speaker 3>access to that and police would laugh. There was no

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<v Speaker 3>moving of other adults who were being quite aggressive or

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<v Speaker 3>indecently exposing themselves. There was no checking in to see

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<v Speaker 3>if I was okay or if I needed anything, nothing

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<v Speaker 3>like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Queensland Police have recently launched an investigation in the state's

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<v Speaker 1>sixty three lockups. Do you have any confidence in Queensland

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<v Speaker 1>Police's ability to investigate itself as long as we.

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<v Speaker 3>Have the people that are causing harm. I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>that we could ever expect a thorough, ethical investigation be

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<v Speaker 3>done into their own behavior. I think what's necessary is

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<v Speaker 3>an independent oversight body having access to watchhouses at all times,

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<v Speaker 3>but also to do that investigation, because you know, people

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<v Speaker 3>don't feel safe to make a complaint about the police

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<v Speaker 3>whilst they're still dealing with them. So I just think

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<v Speaker 3>the number of complaints would be quite low compared to

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<v Speaker 3>the amount of harm, and their ability to investigate themself

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<v Speaker 3>would not be good.

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<v Speaker 1>Christine, We'remnthia from the state election. As we know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>been fought on youth crime. The L and P is

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<v Speaker 1>looking like that will win with their policy of adult

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<v Speaker 1>crime for adult time. You stop committing crimes at ide,

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<v Speaker 1>but for very different reasons. Can you tell us why.

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<v Speaker 3>Look, I think for every young person is different and

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<v Speaker 3>all of their circumstances are different. I think there are

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of children that are in the youth justice

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<v Speaker 3>system that will continue their life journey through the adult system.

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<v Speaker 2>I think for me, my offending it did stop at a.

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<v Speaker 3>Teen, but it wasn't because I was worried about going

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<v Speaker 3>to the adult prison. It was because I then left

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<v Speaker 3>the child protection system and I got housing and they

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<v Speaker 3>got that holistic wrap around support that addressed all of

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<v Speaker 3>my needs. Until my basic needs were met like shelter

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<v Speaker 3>and food, I wasn't able to address my mental health

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<v Speaker 3>concerns or other issues going on in my life. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's true for a lot of young people.

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<v Speaker 3>Once I turned eighteen and that weird red tape that

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<v Speaker 3>we have around children on child protection orders was removed,

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<v Speaker 3>I was actually able to access all of these community

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<v Speaker 3>supports that really actually did help and did change the

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<v Speaker 3>way my life was heading. And for other young people, unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 3>they'll continue their journey through the adult systems because there

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<v Speaker 3>was never enough adequate intervention in their lives.

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<v Speaker 1>So what does your experience from both a personal unprofessional

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<v Speaker 1>perspective tell you about how we might begin to address

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<v Speaker 1>youth offending and deal with some of the traumas that

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<v Speaker 1>the pin at all.

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<v Speaker 3>I think we'll always need an individualized a response. You

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<v Speaker 3>can have two young people, same gender, same area, but

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<v Speaker 3>their needs will be very different. So any type of

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<v Speaker 3>blanket rule and policies and that type of stuff.

0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:16.640
<v Speaker 2>Will never really work.

0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.280
<v Speaker 3>We need to ensure that a child's basic needs are

0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:25.119
<v Speaker 3>met before we expect them to engage in other programs,

0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.640
<v Speaker 3>you know, like we have we have kids that are homeless.

0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.040
<v Speaker 3>They've exited attention, they're homeless, but we expect them to

0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.360
<v Speaker 3>attend Youth Justice four times a week to check in

0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.640
<v Speaker 3>and if they don't, then they're going to be arrested

0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.319
<v Speaker 3>for a breach of bay or conditions. But if they're homeless,

0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.040
<v Speaker 3>how are we expecting them to be able to, you know,

0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.240
<v Speaker 3>make their way to these providers and get that support, Like,

0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:48.160
<v Speaker 3>we can't expect that of children. So I think addressing

0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.880
<v Speaker 3>their basic needs like shelter, food, and then moving onto

0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:55.840
<v Speaker 3>things like mental health, education, anything else that they may

0:13:56.120 --> 0:14:01.439
<v Speaker 3>need in their life. We shouldn't have a youth justice

0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:05.040
<v Speaker 3>system that is so highly politicized. That's what we have,

0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.960
<v Speaker 3>and I think the general public most people aren't educated on,

0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:13.520
<v Speaker 3>you know, like why youth crime occurs and the driving factors.

0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.320
<v Speaker 3>And I'm not saying they should be, but I think

0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.760
<v Speaker 3>if we're going to put the spotlight on these violent

0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.560
<v Speaker 3>crimes that we know are the minority of offenses, we

0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.400
<v Speaker 3>should also be talking about real solutions for that. And

0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:31.280
<v Speaker 3>that's not adult time for adult crime. That's addressing why

0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.000
<v Speaker 3>the crime is happening and stopping it. And until we

0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 3>can adequately address all of those concerns, we can't expect

0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.680
<v Speaker 3>to see the youth crime rates get significantly better.

0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.720
<v Speaker 1>And finally, Christine, what do you wish everyone could now

0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.760
<v Speaker 1>about the children currently placed in youth justice system? Well,

0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.760
<v Speaker 1>what is it like for them being in that system

0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:53.560
<v Speaker 1>as we speak?

0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:58.720
<v Speaker 3>I think, you know, they're not looked at as children

0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.000
<v Speaker 3>that are worthy of love and being cared for. But

0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:03.960
<v Speaker 3>at the end of the day, they are children just

0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.560
<v Speaker 3>like your children and my children and every other child

0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.960
<v Speaker 3>that we see, and the fact that they've offended doesn't

0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.160
<v Speaker 3>mean that suddenly they're not worthy of love. It doesn't

0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.280
<v Speaker 3>mean that suddenly they don't deserve to have their rights upheld.

0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.080
<v Speaker 3>I just wish that people would look at them like

0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.320
<v Speaker 3>children that just need love and care. I think we

0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.840
<v Speaker 3>forget that those kids are longing for that.

0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Christine, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.

0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for having me.

0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.640
<v Speaker 1>Just to note, we change Christine's name to protect her privacy.

0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:45.160
<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, Thailand has become the first

0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.480
<v Speaker 1>country in Southeast days You're to recognize same sex marriage.

0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:52.240
<v Speaker 1>The landmark decision grants full legal, financial and medical rights

0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.920
<v Speaker 1>for marriage partners of any gender. The new law will

0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:58.520
<v Speaker 1>take effect in one hundred and twenty days. And the

0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:02.000
<v Speaker 1>Bureau of Meteorology has a statement of apology for sending

0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.960
<v Speaker 1>out a false tsunami warning through its weather app. The

0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.560
<v Speaker 1>test warning was sent out yesterday between eleven am and

0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.760
<v Speaker 1>twelve pm Australian Eastern Standard Time as part of a

0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:14.600
<v Speaker 1>planned transition to a new early warning system software. The

0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.440
<v Speaker 1>Bureau has reiterated there is no threat of a tsunami

0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:23.080
<v Speaker 1>for Australians. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am cinnamorrow.