Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.
Speaker 1: The L and P has been in the political wilderness
Speaker 1: in Queensland for most of the past three decades, but
Speaker 1: in a month's time that's likely to change. After an
Speaker 1: election campaign fought on youth crime. The youth crime crisis
Speaker 1: has changed the way queensland.
Speaker 2: Has lived their life.
Speaker 3: Our faith in the safety of our community has been shaken.
Speaker 1: Youth crime is shaping up as an election issue in
Speaker 1: Queensland as well. So far, the.
Speaker 2: Statement adult Crime Adult Tide.
Speaker 1: Yesterday llen P leader David Chrissa fully and now its
Speaker 1: courts would be able to access young people's full, familiar
Speaker 1: histories even after they turned eighteen. It's a move legal
Speaker 1: experts say is cheap and won't change rates of offending.
Speaker 1: Ifour criminal history should be there to be factored into
Speaker 1: any future decision. If government changes in October, they will
Speaker 1: be launched by Christmas. But all this tough talk a
Speaker 1: more complicated story about why children commit crimes. Today we
Speaker 1: hear from a survivor of Queensland's youth justice system about
Speaker 1: the impact of punitive policies and what helped her escape
Speaker 1: the cycle. It's Thursday, September twenty six. Christine, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for speaking with this. Can you start by
Speaker 1: introducing yourself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so my name is Christine. I live in Queensland.
Speaker 3: I'm a mom of three little girls and I currently
Speaker 3: work in the child and youth sector and have done
Speaker 3: so for a few years.
Speaker 1: We know that in Queensland at the moment there's a
Speaker 1: big push for action on youth crime and it's been
Speaker 1: dominating the election debate in Queensland Land. What we never
Speaker 1: hear from is young people who have actually been subject
Speaker 1: to the youth justice system. We know that you have,
Speaker 1: so I'm hoping we could talk about your own experience
Speaker 1: if that's okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3: So both my parents were addicted to methan fedmin There
Speaker 3: was a lot of sexual abuse and physical abuse in
Speaker 3: the home, and a lot of exposure to domestic violence.
Speaker 2: So I was removed at the age of five years old.
Speaker 3: There'd been quite a few child protection concerns and notifications
Speaker 3: before that. I was in a couple different foster care
Speaker 3: homes for a few years and my introduction to the
Speaker 3: youth justice system was around the age of twelve, so
Speaker 3: I should have been in my final year of primary school.
Speaker 3: At that point, I was on a child protection order,
Speaker 3: but was homeless at the time. I was living at
Speaker 3: a bus stop. My first ever offense that I was
Speaker 3: arrested for was shoplifting, and I had shoplifted ra bubbles
Speaker 3: and milk.
Speaker 2: From the local coals.
Speaker 3: That was my first interaction with police, and I was
Speaker 3: charged with the offense rather than given a caution, And
Speaker 3: in the same day I was also charged with trespassing
Speaker 3: because they found that I had been sleeping at the
Speaker 3: bus stop and my belongings were there.
Speaker 1: Can you recall how you felt when the police arrested
Speaker 1: you and put you in the justice system. What was
Speaker 1: going through your mind.
Speaker 3: I remember being quite embarrassed and really quite upset.
Speaker 2: I was treated quite poorly by the police.
Speaker 3: They recognized my last name and could link that back
Speaker 3: to my family, So I just remember being really kind
Speaker 3: of angry and also embarrassed. And I also thought, you know,
Speaker 3: like once they had arrested me, that they would not
Speaker 3: be able to release me back to homelessness. I kind
Speaker 3: of thought, oh, well, now somebody will have to call
Speaker 3: child safety and I'll be put in a house.
Speaker 2: But that didn't happen.
Speaker 3: They did really me just back out into the street,
Speaker 3: and I remember just being really hurt by that. And
Speaker 3: I don't think I felt that a lot as a
Speaker 3: kid because I was so used to kind of being
Speaker 3: let down, but that one really hurt me.
Speaker 1: So the place put you back out on the street.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me what it was like living on
Speaker 1: the streets and being homeless, and what sort of community
Speaker 1: you had around you, what sort of people you would
Speaker 1: associate with.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so for me, there wasn't a lot of homeless
Speaker 3: youth around. There would be times where there would be
Speaker 3: a few, but often those young people were not on
Speaker 3: child protection orders, so they were able to go to
Speaker 3: youth homelessness shelters. And I was too young for a
Speaker 3: homeless shelter, and they also wouldn't take a child on
Speaker 3: a child protection order. So most of my time being
Speaker 3: homeless was me keeping to myself and being alone or
Speaker 3: being around older typically men that had been homeless for
Speaker 3: long periods of time, and I would hang out with
Speaker 3: them and stay around them. I remember, you know, like
Speaker 3: trying to shower at public bathrooms and stuff. I would
Speaker 3: try and go near where a beach was because often
Speaker 3: there was a shower there. I would have to try
Speaker 3: and charge my phone in shopping center car parks, but
Speaker 3: I would be moved on or be charged with another
Speaker 3: trespassing offence for being on shopping center property. When I'm
Speaker 3: not shopping, I would try and sleep in the day
Speaker 3: so I could be awake at night, because typically at
Speaker 3: night was when it was most unsafe for a girl
Speaker 3: to be homeless and alone amongst a lot of older,
Speaker 3: typically males. Being on a child protection order meant that
Speaker 3: there was one system that was supposed to care for
Speaker 3: me and provide protection and they were unable.
Speaker 2: To do that.
Speaker 3: It meant that no other systems could kind of step
Speaker 3: in because we have this reliance on the child protection system, right,
Speaker 3: so they weren't doing their job. There was no one
Speaker 3: else that was allowed to so any decision, including accessing
Speaker 3: any health services or accessing any community program needed consent
Speaker 3: because I was under eighteen and the state was my guardian,
Speaker 3: so it would appear on paper right that I have
Speaker 3: an active guardian who's able to provide consent.
Speaker 2: However, that wasn't the case.
Speaker 3: There were quite a few times that I did do
Speaker 3: things that I knew could.
Speaker 2: Get me caught, and I knew would be just enough.
Speaker 3: To get me into youth detention so I could keep
Speaker 3: myself safe for a short period of time.
Speaker 2: I could sleep at night.
Speaker 3: I didn't have to worry about strangers and keeping myself safe.
Speaker 3: It meant I was fed and I knew what time
Speaker 3: my meal would come at. I could have a shower,
Speaker 3: I would have clean clothing and a roof over my head.
Speaker 3: So going to juvie was my best option to keep
Speaker 3: myself safe.
Speaker 1: Christine's story isn't unique in order to genials. Report into
Speaker 1: youth crime in Queensland points to the fact that many
Speaker 1: young offenders are themselves victims victims of abuse, neglect, family violence,
Speaker 1: and intergenerational trauma. These are young people with no options
Speaker 1: and little prospect, no leavers to pull in order to
Speaker 1: change their predicament. They experience poor health, mental health issues
Speaker 1: and behavioral disorders. Invariably it's healthcare they need, but instead
Speaker 1: they are criminalized through the justice system fod OF for
Speaker 1: courts and for prisons. The same report shows that for
Speaker 1: the most part, youth crime in Queen's Lane is actually
Speaker 1: stable and in some areas tracking down, but a spate
Speaker 1: of high profile and incredibly distressing violent crimes have led
Speaker 1: to a political situation where both major parties afflicting their
Speaker 1: tough on crime credentials.
Speaker 2: Five teenagers are tonight under arrest in relation to the
Speaker 2: stabbing death of a Queensland grandmother in a shopping The.
Speaker 1: Teenager who stamped Northlake's mum, Emma Lovell, has pleaded guilty
Speaker 1: to murder. In a sudden and surprise development, a teenage
Speaker 1: boy has been charged with the murders of two people
Speaker 1: after a crash in an allegedly stolen four wheel drive
Speaker 1: on Brisbane's by Side. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think those are really horrific things that occurred and
Speaker 3: there's nothing anybody can say to make that better.
Speaker 2: Those types of crime that that's not my experience.
Speaker 3: Those aren't things that I engaged in all that people
Speaker 3: I knew and have now worked with as an adult,
Speaker 3: those aren't typical of what I'm seeing young people.
Speaker 2: They're offending. It's a lot of like.
Speaker 3: Survival crime type of stuff, and we need to address
Speaker 3: the root cause of offending, why it's happening. What's going
Speaker 3: on for those young people are their undiagnosed disabilities, because
Speaker 3: we know that's a major issue and until we can
Speaker 3: adequately address all of those concerns, we can't expect to
Speaker 3: see the youth crime rates get significantly better.
Speaker 1: After the break what it's actually like for a child
Speaker 1: in an adult watchhouse. Recently, horrific footage has emerged showing
Speaker 1: the why children have been treated in some of the
Speaker 1: adult holding cells in Queensland. The video show young people panicked,
Speaker 1: struggling to breathe and locked in freezing cold cells with
Speaker 1: adult prisoners in other cells. Just meets away. As a child,
Speaker 1: Christine spent time in adult watchhouses, so that footage, while upsetting,
Speaker 1: didn't shock her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I.
Speaker 3: Would really like to go to Juvie for the protection,
Speaker 3: but the watchhouse in between was what was quite scary.
Speaker 2: Often I would.
Speaker 3: Be the only or one of very few children in
Speaker 3: the watchhouse with typically a lot of intoxicated adults, usually men.
Speaker 3: So I remember one time I would have been about
Speaker 3: twelve or thirteen in a watchhouse and in a cell
Speaker 3: across from me there was a man who had exposed
Speaker 3: his genitals to me and was yelling out to me
Speaker 3: some QUI gross things and I just had to sit there.
Speaker 2: There was nowhere I could go to escape that.
Speaker 3: And I think for me, like I have quite a
Speaker 3: history of childhood trauma and stuff. So those types of
Speaker 3: experiences really impacted me and my mental health. There were
Speaker 3: times where female sanitary products were denied, we didn't have
Speaker 3: access to that and police would laugh. There was no
Speaker 3: moving of other adults who were being quite aggressive or
Speaker 3: indecently exposing themselves. There was no checking in to see
Speaker 3: if I was okay or if I needed anything, nothing
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 1: Queensland Police have recently launched an investigation in the state's
Speaker 1: sixty three lockups. Do you have any confidence in Queensland
Speaker 1: Police's ability to investigate itself as long as we.
Speaker 3: Have the people that are causing harm. I don't think
Speaker 3: that we could ever expect a thorough, ethical investigation be
Speaker 3: done into their own behavior. I think what's necessary is
Speaker 3: an independent oversight body having access to watchhouses at all times,
Speaker 3: but also to do that investigation, because you know, people
Speaker 3: don't feel safe to make a complaint about the police
Speaker 3: whilst they're still dealing with them. So I just think
Speaker 3: the number of complaints would be quite low compared to
Speaker 3: the amount of harm, and their ability to investigate themself
Speaker 3: would not be good.
Speaker 1: Christine, We'remnthia from the state election. As we know, it's
Speaker 1: been fought on youth crime. The L and P is
Speaker 1: looking like that will win with their policy of adult
Speaker 1: crime for adult time. You stop committing crimes at ide,
Speaker 1: but for very different reasons. Can you tell us why.
Speaker 3: Look, I think for every young person is different and
Speaker 3: all of their circumstances are different. I think there are
Speaker 3: a lot of children that are in the youth justice
Speaker 3: system that will continue their life journey through the adult system.
Speaker 2: I think for me, my offending it did stop at a.
Speaker 3: Teen, but it wasn't because I was worried about going
Speaker 3: to the adult prison. It was because I then left
Speaker 3: the child protection system and I got housing and they
Speaker 3: got that holistic wrap around support that addressed all of
Speaker 3: my needs. Until my basic needs were met like shelter
Speaker 3: and food, I wasn't able to address my mental health
Speaker 3: concerns or other issues going on in my life. And
Speaker 3: I think that's true for a lot of young people.
Speaker 3: Once I turned eighteen and that weird red tape that
Speaker 3: we have around children on child protection orders was removed,
Speaker 3: I was actually able to access all of these community
Speaker 3: supports that really actually did help and did change the
Speaker 3: way my life was heading. And for other young people, unfortunately,
Speaker 3: they'll continue their journey through the adult systems because there
Speaker 3: was never enough adequate intervention in their lives.
Speaker 1: So what does your experience from both a personal unprofessional
Speaker 1: perspective tell you about how we might begin to address
Speaker 1: youth offending and deal with some of the traumas that
Speaker 1: the pin at all.
Speaker 3: I think we'll always need an individualized a response. You
Speaker 3: can have two young people, same gender, same area, but
Speaker 3: their needs will be very different. So any type of
Speaker 3: blanket rule and policies and that type of stuff.
Speaker 2: Will never really work.
Speaker 3: We need to ensure that a child's basic needs are
Speaker 3: met before we expect them to engage in other programs,
Speaker 3: you know, like we have we have kids that are homeless.
Speaker 3: They've exited attention, they're homeless, but we expect them to
Speaker 3: attend Youth Justice four times a week to check in
Speaker 3: and if they don't, then they're going to be arrested
Speaker 3: for a breach of bay or conditions. But if they're homeless,
Speaker 3: how are we expecting them to be able to, you know,
Speaker 3: make their way to these providers and get that support, Like,
Speaker 3: we can't expect that of children. So I think addressing
Speaker 3: their basic needs like shelter, food, and then moving onto
Speaker 3: things like mental health, education, anything else that they may
Speaker 3: need in their life. We shouldn't have a youth justice
Speaker 3: system that is so highly politicized. That's what we have,
Speaker 3: and I think the general public most people aren't educated on,
Speaker 3: you know, like why youth crime occurs and the driving factors.
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying they should be, but I think
Speaker 3: if we're going to put the spotlight on these violent
Speaker 3: crimes that we know are the minority of offenses, we
Speaker 3: should also be talking about real solutions for that. And
Speaker 3: that's not adult time for adult crime. That's addressing why
Speaker 3: the crime is happening and stopping it. And until we
Speaker 3: can adequately address all of those concerns, we can't expect
Speaker 3: to see the youth crime rates get significantly better.
Speaker 1: And finally, Christine, what do you wish everyone could now
Speaker 1: about the children currently placed in youth justice system? Well,
Speaker 1: what is it like for them being in that system
Speaker 1: as we speak?
Speaker 3: I think, you know, they're not looked at as children
Speaker 3: that are worthy of love and being cared for. But
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, they are children just
Speaker 3: like your children and my children and every other child
Speaker 3: that we see, and the fact that they've offended doesn't
Speaker 3: mean that suddenly they're not worthy of love. It doesn't
Speaker 3: mean that suddenly they don't deserve to have their rights upheld.
Speaker 3: I just wish that people would look at them like
Speaker 3: children that just need love and care. I think we
Speaker 3: forget that those kids are longing for that.
Speaker 1: Christine, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Just to note, we change Christine's name to protect her privacy.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, Thailand has become the first
Speaker 1: country in Southeast days You're to recognize same sex marriage.
Speaker 1: The landmark decision grants full legal, financial and medical rights
Speaker 1: for marriage partners of any gender. The new law will
Speaker 1: take effect in one hundred and twenty days. And the
Speaker 1: Bureau of Meteorology has a statement of apology for sending
Speaker 1: out a false tsunami warning through its weather app. The
Speaker 1: test warning was sent out yesterday between eleven am and
Speaker 1: twelve pm Australian Eastern Standard Time as part of a
Speaker 1: planned transition to a new early warning system software. The
Speaker 1: Bureau has reiterated there is no threat of a tsunami
Speaker 1: for Australians. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am cinnamorrow.