WEBVTT - Episode 36: Forever Loved 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.640 Listeners are advised that this podcast series Broman contains coarse 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.840 language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:11.680 you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian. 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:44.240 You and I have both done a lot of knocking 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:46.600 on doors Headley, and it's one of the hardest things 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:48.440 in journalism. It's to go and knock on a door, 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:52.440 cold and introduce yourself and just hope that you can 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:54.920 get people talking to you. Often it's in very tragic 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:56.680 circumstances where someone has died. 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:01.400 My friend and colleague Claire Harvey, driving our south to 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.840 a suburb called Illawong, in an area we've been calling 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.720 the Shire throughout this Bromwin podcast series. 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:10.760 It's beautiful morning in Sydney. 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:14.600 It's just stopped raining and there's a very cloudy, windswept 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:16.319 sky and the streets are drying out. 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:20.440 We are heading to the house John Winfield helped build 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:24.760 in May nineteen ninety three. It must be worth at 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:29.440 least three million dollars. We have decided to approach the 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.639 owners for the first time, to rip off the band 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:36.560 aid and tell them about our suspicions and the suspicions 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:41.000 of senior lawyers and former detectives that this attractive two 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.679 level property may be Bromlin's resting place. 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.680 Well, often people are really happy to tell their stories. 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:49.720 They want to honor the person who's passed away. 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.800 I agree. Sometimes it is cathartic. They like to honor 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.240 their loved one. But in this case, we're not talking 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:02.120 to a grieving relation. We're hoping to talk to the 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:06.880 owners of a property who may have no idea of 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:14.160 our growing suspicion about possibly Bromwin's remains being buried. Beneath 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:20.119 a patio or a garage slab is the one location 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.040 that takes a lot of boxes that makes most sense. 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:24.680 It is possible. 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.120 I suppose that their lives are busy and that they 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.800 haven't heard about it. If they had heard about it 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:31.720 and they've been waiting for us to get in touch, 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.639 I feel for them. I feel that there must have 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:39.120 been a difficult situation to be in. If they haven't, 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:40.280 it's going to be. 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:42.720 A big surprise. At the very least. 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.520 This is a house that John Winfield was working on 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:49.600 in the days before and after the disappearance of his wife. 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:51.560 I'd want to know that too. 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.440 If I was the owner of the house, if I 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.160 had heard that this was happening at my house and 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:57.440 the police didn't want to dig it up. 0:02:57.560 --> 0:02:58.840 I'd be digging it up myself. 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:01.320 I wouldn't be out of bear the uncertainty. 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:08.720 Absolutely on the idea that you might unwittingly be concealing 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.360 the body of a murder victim. 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.120 That was the turn off to Illowong. If they are home, 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.920 I've got no idea whether they're going to talk to us. 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.960 In an earlier episode, you heard Karina Berger and I 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:29.240 debating whether to make this approach. Claire Harvey was in 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.000 no doubt that we needed to at least try to 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.600 talk to the owners, but not to ask them for anything. 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.720 We have resolved that even if we had their permission, 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:43.320 we would not attempt an excavation and search. While there's 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.440 still a prospect of that occurring under the supervision of 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:50.360 the New South Wales Police Unsolved Homicide Unit or the 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:55.960 State Coroner, Theresa O'Sullivan. We do not know what, if anything, 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.960 they are doing in relation to this place. But before 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.520 driving to Ilawong, we decided that the owners of the 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:07.400 home do deserve a briefing from us, even though it's 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:11.320 possible that they have been oblivious to everything that has 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:16.160 been speculated and reported in the podcast these past twelve months. 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.279 On the other hand, they might be across every detail. 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:21.560 Now. 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:23.920 I feel like we need to tell them that as 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:24.880 gently as possible. 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.840 I can't decide whether I'm hoping that they know about 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.480 the podcast and that they've been waiting for us to come, 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:34.719 or that they have no idea at all. 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.159 It's a lovely area. 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.560 Classic Australian suburbia around here, isn't it your for lawns, 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:43.760 nice gardens? 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:51.200 Thirty two years ago this area in Illawong was not 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:56.160 well established. There were not many homes now here. 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.479 We are in the street, this one here. 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:05.440 With the the property. 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:06.559 Hello. 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:15.760 Back in the car. Sometime later we debriefed abjectively, we 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.120 looked quite unusual. Speak for yourself. 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:20.320 We look like either. 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:21.760 Cops or bit collectors. 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:25.279 I'd kind of imagined a veranda or a porch that 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.800 was basically just concrete. I hadn't expected something that's quite 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.440 so established, like it's tiled. 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:32.440 It's very nice. 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.080 Claire stared the family wagon back onto the main road 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:39.560 out of Illawong and in the direction of the beach 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:45.040 and Crinulla, where we have another important commitment. One final group. 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.200 Meeting with the three most staunch people I've come to 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.920 know in this podcast investigation. 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.400 Maddie and Andy and Michelle. 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:55.080 Just going to get it. 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:59.440 Approve, they'll be fine. I actually let Andy know this morning. Okay, 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.640 I said, this is what we're going to do. We've 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:07.360 waited up, gone back and forth about it, but at 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:11.440 the end, our job is to ask questions, and we 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:15.520 try to do that with as much thoughtfulness as possible. 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.640 But if we stop asking questions, stop knocking on doors, 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:24.080 where do you draw the line? Yeah, you'll hear more 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.520 about our visit to the house in Ilawan later in 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:28.240 this episode. 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:31.960 We came here for our last anniversion. 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.160 Our meeting place, a restaurant near the beach, is well 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:37.640 known to Andy and Michelle. 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.200 Well, here's two you guys being married for thirty five years. 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:45.000 Podcast nearly over, isn't it. Yeah, it's nearly over. 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:50.320 Fifteen months earlier, I spoke to Bromin's brother Andy and 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.040 his wife Michelle on the phone about the probable scale 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:59.080 and duration of the planned Bromin podcast investigation. Here's a 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.159 snippet from that time, when we were just days away 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:06.840 from the release of episode one called John's Castle. We're 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.840 talking about a series of maybe eight, nine or ten episodes, 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.720 so it's not going to be over quickly. Andy and 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.840 Michelle were told back then about what we hope the 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:21.880 impact of the early episodes would have on listeners, particularly 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:27.320 those with information about bromin her disappearance and John. When 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:32.720 they start listening and appreciating what's being done and hearing 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:38.040 the different accounts and seeing the momentum, that's when people 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.200 who have been silent, who haven't wanted to talk to 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:45.800 the cops or to journalists before, just start feeling naturally 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.600 pretty guilty, feeling like they should have come forward and 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:53.640 said something now. At lunch and on the eve of 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.520 episode thirty six, in a series which I never expected 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.360 would cover this much ground and hear from so many 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:05.480 people with information, Michelle pondered questions about this production coming 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.000 to an end at least for now. 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:15.280 You hope that the podcast might still generate someone else's interest, 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:20.120 or it might push someone who's sitting back and wanting 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.960 to say something but too frightened too for some reason. 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:25.480 Which you know we know there are people like that. 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.600 Do you have any regrets about being involved? None at all. 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:30.560 It's been great. 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:34.679 There have obviously been some pretty harrowing times with your 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:36.400 family like this has been hard. 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.040 You guys are right at the center of it. 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.800 How do you feel about the family's feelings. 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:45.599 It's been hard to spring up and down right. A 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:50.480 lot of more through the whole thing. Some people struggling 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:52.800 with wanting a bit more relevant. 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.440 Back when we started, you obviously had a relationship with 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.640 your sister Kim in Tasmania and with your cousin Megan. 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:01.200 Do you speak to them now? 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:02.640 Not currently. 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:02.960 No. 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:08.120 The messages and the scathingness of them that I received 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.040 from Megan, they're just not so unacceptable. 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.120 I couldn't matter how much you hate someone. 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.800 There's no need to say the things that she comes 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:17.120 up with. 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.439 I'm after answers for Braun. I'm after justice for Braun, 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:23.360 nothing else, nothing else. 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:25.559 It's quite complicated. 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:29.760 They were already problems before it even happened, because not 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:33.560 everyone is going to remember things the same way, and 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.240 not everyone is going to want to remember things the 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:36.760 same way. 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:39.320 It just got put under the spotlight. 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.880 Megan takes the view that the police investigation early on 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:48.319 failed because you and Michelle tried to control with and 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:52.800 not allow other members of the family to be involved. 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:56.600 In the early piece in relation to Meagan just can 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.400 ring me one day. He just said to me, every 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.040 time must be to this blot. He has an answer 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.840 prepared because he knows what the family's doing. 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:06.080 Well. 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.959 That's when I've said to Diskin, do not accept any 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:15.200 phone calls, do speak with Megan anymore, because somehow John's 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.720 finding out everything that the family knows and thinks. 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.520 Do you think that it's your exclusion of Megan and 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.880 her knowledge that you excluded her that has caused a 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:27.959 lot of the acrimony. 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:32.120 When she admits in her statement that she was in 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:34.000 constant contract with him. 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.200 Let's that doesn't go any further any Let's just say 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.520 nothing happens now, there are no charges laid. The police 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:42.640 come back to you in a month and say, look, sorry, 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:44.000 we haven't done anything. 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:47.480 There's nowhere to go. How would you feel if that happened. 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:52.040 No, I'd be mortified, devastated Obra. 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:55.600 Eightwo months ago, they sat there and said, at the moment, 0:10:56.080 --> 0:11:00.320 unless there's any further evidence coming forwards, there's nothing more 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:01.200 we can do for you. 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:02.280 Now. 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:06.880 The podcast has run its course. As far as I'm concerned, 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.360 it'splaying the ship out of the water come up with 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:15.520 that many relevant facts. Everyone that knows me locally around 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:19.120 here and that that follows the podcast just says, how 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.720 can they d prepre and the please get it that 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:25.720 far wrong would be quite devastating if it doesn't proceed. 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.600 I remember once another of a we said child said 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:33.000 to me, your greatest VINCEL Thomas sine unit opened the 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:34.760 lid on the boss one for years, said oh, there's 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:36.000 nothing new, and then shut the room within. 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:38.720 Well, that's what it felt like until the podcast started. 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.880 We'd basically given up because I used to just make 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.440 that constant annual phone call. 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:50.839 And god ring here after year, any news, what's going on? 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:55.200 All they do is check whether bank account's being touched 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.199 and come back to you and go, no, yeah, mad car, 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.319 your card hasn't been touched. Bank account has and boon 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.040 touched year after year, until finally that. 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.360 Blagrit moved on and I was never ever given another contract. 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:12.240 Unelful, very unellful. Just prove how in NEPP the system 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:12.560 can be. 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:18.959 Visitors to the new South Wales Police headquarters in Paramatta 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.640 see a public display a tribute to many hundreds of 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:27.720 people who are missing. Their disappearance is unresolved an unknown 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:32.320 number of murder victims. It is particularly poignant now in 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:36.880 this first week of August twenty twenty five, Australia's National 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:41.160 Missing Person's Week. The catalyst for this annual week of 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.680 action was the disappearance of twenty year old Tony Jones 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:50.040 in nineteen eighty two. This year's campaign theme is Forever Loved, 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:54.200 which is also very fitting for Bromin Winfield and her family. 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.760 And you just think to yourself, there are so many 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:03.280 people who missing and you watch them go on the screens. 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.920 If you've got a missing person in your family, you've 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:12.040 got to get on there and push. You can't sit back. 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.200 You've got to be proactive. You've got to be a 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.880 thorn in their side really and just keep going, don't 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:19.400 give up. 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:24.000 We know that the police don't really approve of journalists 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:30.800 doing cold case investigations of unsolved on in this case though, 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.840 they should not be disapproving because they had told you 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.719 there was nowhere else they could go. They couldn't take 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.240 it any further unless there's fresh evidence. 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.120 The fresh evidence has all come from the podcast and 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:46.680 all the work that's been done by to shelf. 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:48.240 Everything we've been able to find out. 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:53.840 How sad is it that Judy Singh went to two 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:58.720 police stations and was not taken seriously. That just blows 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:02.560 me away what they think she was a crazy person 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:03.120 or something. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.320 She's also a filler of the community and n that's 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:09.440 just incredible to me. 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:15.400 That was a pivotal point in the whole podcast, wasn't it. 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.080 I said it to you Leon the night that we 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.520 spoke on the phone for a couple of hours after 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:37.760 the Judy scene episode, and I said. 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:29.680 The. 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:36.120 Mum they adored, did you think when this started? Oh 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.320 my god, this is gon worry the family out. 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:39.640 There's no winning. 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.640 Everyone's lost something, everyone's losing something. 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.400 And yes, there are so many feelings involved in. 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.600 This, but there's really one objective. 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:53.240 That's the only objective, and it has been the only 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:57.680 objective from the day that we found out she was gone. 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.240 Andrew is Roman's brother. 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:05.240 His status isn't here anymore, his Mum's not here anymore. 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:11.640 Andrew has always felt that he could never give up 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:12.280 on his sister. 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:13.600 Always. 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:19.080 We've had so many ups and downs, Andrew even in 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.120 himself with his own health over all. 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:26.240 Of this, purely with his frustration. 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:30.160 Of not having the case moving forward. I've lived it 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:36.480 with him the whole time. His only objective is to 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:40.080 find out the truth, that's all. If it were the 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:44.760 case that something happened to when other than what the 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:45.720 facts point. 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:47.600 To, that would be acceptable. 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.240 And the pursuit of the truth has pointed us down 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.800 this path to this one person from the day he 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:55.400 walked on to. 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.680 Our front Verandah, I don't want to talk in front 0:15:58.720 --> 0:15:59.240 of the kids. 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:04.160 The kids were inside, and nothing about Ronwin has ever 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.280 been spoken about to the kids, never allowed to be questioned. 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.240 We're never allowed to bring up Romman's name in front 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:15.000 of the kids, like it was crazy. And your mum's 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.160 done this, your mum's run away, your mum's mentally ill. 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.600 That whole thing was pushed. 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:21.120 Down their throats. 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.920 I think they're just frightened to know the truth. And 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.760 I guess that's understandable too, if that's how this. 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:28.440 All ends up. 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:32.880 Because she was five, she's only going to believe what 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:37.200 she's fed. And that's a big thing for anybody. When 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:40.000 you've been told the one thing the whole time and 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.880 it's not true. What else is a five year old 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.120 going to believe when they don't know anything better, and 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.960 they're not allowed to talk to their family of their mother. 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.720 Who would be able to reinforce the fact that no. 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.160 Your mum wouldn't have gone away. Your mum loved you. 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.040 We never ever were able to do that, And that's 0:16:58.200 --> 0:16:58.840 so sad. 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:04.040 And when you talking before about the possibility of roum, 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.320 when her body being in the boot and those children 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.840 on the back seat, and you were obviously upset, I 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:15.159 understand why how much weight do you give that theory? 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:17.720 Given everything you've now heard. 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.680 It looks more probable than not. It's a master search. 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:24.520 That's where she could be. So she's there. 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.439 I think she's going to be in the back corner 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.800 of the garage or along that side. 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.560 Walk which is the laundry backing onto the garage. 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.040 Would you want to know this is your property? 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.800 Look that for us, and someone said to us, we 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:45.639 believe that there might be or somebody. 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:50.159 Buried on your property. I would want that affirmed. I 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:51.200 would want that done. 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:56.840 As horrible as it sounds, I would want them to 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.600 go ahead and do whatever they needed to do. The 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:03.639 chance has to be taken. You can't go on going 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:04.959 is she isn't she? 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.399 There needs to be an answer. 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:12.240 The podcast has been able to extract more information than 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:17.399 we've ever known before, and vital information. If all of 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:21.520 that information now doesn't do the deed, we're going to 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:22.920 be struggling, aren't we. 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.040 How many more chances are we going to have? 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.000 It wasn't until you've build into it to the depths 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.199 that we have through the podcast that all these different 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.159 facts and new facts came out. It didn't got the 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.360 information about when the sign off was for the slabs 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.240 and the whole thing started just falling into place. 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.680 Ultimately, the police should have picked that up. 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:49.280 The fact that the place was trime for something like 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:51.760 that to happen, and we know that now. 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:52.919 We didn't know that. 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.120 I don't think Glenn's suspected it either, But then when 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.680 you sat there and you put those few facts to imy, 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:00.200 when Wow. 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:05.600 I don't think there's very many other places she could 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:13.040 possibly be and not have been found, not have washed up, 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:14.920 not have been uncovered. 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.520 I think I'm strongly of the view. 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.280 I don't really think there's any other alternative. 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.640 Everybody was suspicious of the circumstances of the trip to Sydney, 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.760 and everybody was suspicious of the dropping off of the 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:34.760 children with the ex wife's mother in law and concerned 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:38.680 about what the lies that John told about his movements 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:39.840 might have meant. 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.280 Why was he distancing himself from certain things? 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:48.399 But it wasn't until those documents became available because of 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:53.320 your connection to a long serving council staff who founded 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:54.440 in archives. 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:56.600 Well, working with what we have and we've done as 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:58.200 much as we can, I'm. 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:00.320 Stronger in the view now with everything you know. 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:02.400 Digging and graves actually very difficult. 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.960 He was Russian and he would not have arrived in 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.440 Sydney as early as he did if he went into. 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.240 The middle of the woods or off the highway. 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:17.800 And Doug sadly, mate, I think that if Roman isn't 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:23.560 there Atilawung, he'll probably never find. 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:45.639 Right after agree yeah. 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:49.160 The following morning, Maddie joined me in the nine Network 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:53.280 studio in Sydney for a live TV interview, perhaps the 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.440 last one will do together about this case. Maddie will 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:00.719 be joining the new South Wales Police Force in coming months. 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:06.320 They're lucky to have this intelligent forensic science graduate. She's strong, 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:10.480 independent and wise beyond her years, and she's been a 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.400 great help to me and this podcast investigation. 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:20.920 It's been thirty two years see bronwyin Winfield's disappearance from 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.440 her home in Lennox Head, with police yet to locate 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:24.160 her remains. 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:29.000 The Today Shows co anchor Sarah Arbo went straight to 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:29.960 the point. 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:32.720 After all this time, are we any closer to finding 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:33.399 out what happens? 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.480 We believe that we are, and that the evidence that's 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.679 come out through multiple witnesses who hadn't talked to the 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:43.480 police before or who hadn't been taken seriously before, as 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:48.840 well as some powerfully compelling circumstantial evidence pointing to where 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:54.080 Bromlin's remains may have been concealed, show that there is 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.560 a lot there that can be developed further by police 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:02.680 and possibly by people with specialized search and excavation equipment. 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:04.399 That's incredible, and I do want to come to that, 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:05.879 and I know you two have been working closely with 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:08.439 these past eight ten months on this podcast. What's it 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:10.680 been like from the family's perspective to have all this 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:11.680 brought back up. 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:14.160 In a way it has restored a lot of hope 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:17.240 for us. I mean, we went thirty one years with 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:20.800 nothing happening, and it was a constant thing that Andy 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:24.400 Bronwin's brother had brought up with the police to try 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:26.600 and get them to look back into it and put 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.040 it out to the public and the media that something 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.399 actually eventually started happening and people started coming out of 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:34.680 the woodwork, and we now know so much more than 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:35.400 we did before. 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:39.080 And you mentioned the potential site where Bronwin's remains may be. 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:42.000 You've identified a concrete slab. Do you think that's likely 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:43.000 to ever be excavated? 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:49.080 I believe that senior police serving and former regarded as 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:53.160 a priority site that needs to be looked at, if 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:55.240 only to be ruled out if there is going to 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:58.159 be any further action taken in so far as a 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:02.560 possible prosecution, which was recommended by the coroner back in 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:05.639 two thousand and two, then they wouldn't want to go 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:09.400 forward with that not knowing what might be beneath that slab. 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:13.479 And it's just the timing around the concrete pause that 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:16.240 were occurring there when John was working there as a 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:19.800 brick layer, these other factors, his omissions about what he 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:23.480 was doing that day, they're quite troubling when you put 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:25.399 it all together. And that's why Glenn Taylor said if 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:28.119