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Speaker 1: I get a You Bloody Champions Craig Anthony Harper reporting

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Speaker 1: in for Judy. It's the You Project. What the fuck

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Speaker 1: else would it be? I hope you're having a good day.

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Speaker 1: It is. It's one thirty two and the thriving metropolis

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Speaker 1: of Melbourne. It's Wednesday. So a couple of hours ago

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Speaker 1: I was going back and forwards with an old friend

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Speaker 1: of mine on the phone who is a fucking t

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Speaker 1: rex and his business partner is a stegosaurus, which would

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Speaker 1: make me probably a tricerah toops or a bronze saurus.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, it's three dinosaurs on a show and we're

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Speaker 1: going back and forth. His name is Keith Ellis and

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Speaker 1: Paul Kirkham of course, but we're going back and forth

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Speaker 1: Keith and I and I said, look, while you're on

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Speaker 1: the phone, could I ask you whether or not we

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Speaker 1: might have a chat later the TSAVO long shot And

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Speaker 1: he said yes, So here we here we are. So

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Speaker 1: thank you boys for the short notice approval, thank you

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Speaker 1: for figuring out how to do the tech. Do you reckon?

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Speaker 1: There's ever been three older human beings on a podcast.

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Speaker 2: I don't know where I combined ages, but it'd be

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Speaker 2: over two hundred. I think so it'd be well over

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Speaker 2: two hundred. I'm sixty one.

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Speaker 1: How old are you?

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Speaker 3: I know you told me the other day, Paul, I'm

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Speaker 3: sixty eight and on the other state, I'm seventy one.

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Speaker 1: Fuck and hell, have you look at you? I think

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Speaker 1: this is probably your third podcast, mate, and you did

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Speaker 1: the other two with me? Or have you done others? No? No,

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Speaker 1: I'm just savings out for you, Craig. I feel I

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Speaker 1: feel pretty good about that now or can you can

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Speaker 1: you tell my audience who haven't Like, last time you

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Speaker 1: were on was about seventeen thousand episodes ago. So, by

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Speaker 1: the way, I just thought I wrote this down because

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Speaker 1: I never know day to day what number we're up to.

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Speaker 1: But if this goes up tomorrow, to go up tomorrow

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Speaker 1: the next day. But if it goes up tomorrow, this

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Speaker 1: will be episode number one thousand, eight hundred and twenty three. Now.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what episode you guys were first time,

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Speaker 1: but I think it was in the first five or ten.

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Speaker 1: And I will say maybe without Maxes your company, this

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Speaker 1: show might not exist because you guys sponsored you guys

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Speaker 1: financially kind of backed the goliath. The media Goliath. That

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Speaker 1: is that you project you financially supported me when nobody

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Speaker 1: else logically would, So thank you for that. Boys, But

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Speaker 1: can you believe that, Keith? Eighteen hundred and twenty three episodes.

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Speaker 3: It truly is incredible, Craig. I mean, it's just been

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Speaker 3: a long time, as you said, since we've been on.

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Speaker 3: But I hope we didn't offend anybody that badly that

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Speaker 3: far ago, you know, so we're pleased to be back.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's always it's always good, Paul. Can you tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about so there'll be some We

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Speaker 1: have about seventy percent female audience, sixty five seventy percent,

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Speaker 1: so there'll be people who not only do they not

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Speaker 1: know what Maxes are, they don't really have a great

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Speaker 1: understanding of supplements or any of that particular landscape. But

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Speaker 1: give us a bit of a snapshot of the Max's story,

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Speaker 1: like the genesis. How long have you been around and

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Speaker 1: just explain to people what Maxes is and what you

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Speaker 1: do before we just jump into a conversation. Yeah, sure, Craig.

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Speaker 2: Well, we started our company in nineteen eighty nine, but

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Speaker 2: Keith and I go way back long before that. So

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Speaker 2: back when I was a lad when I was about

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Speaker 2: twenty years old, I used to go to a gym

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Speaker 2: in Nana Wadding here in Melbourne, and the guy used

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Speaker 2: to run the gym was one mister Keith Ellis. At

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Speaker 2: the time, he was a competitive bodybuilder, and I was

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Speaker 2: this skinny bloke who came in to join the gym

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Speaker 2: and trained there under Keith's tutelage for a number of years.

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Speaker 2: And I think I started out about seventy kilos and

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Speaker 2: probably about three years later I was about ninety five kilos.

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Speaker 2: So whatever he told me kind of worked and that

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Speaker 2: I stayed at that way for quite a while. But

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Speaker 2: as I've got older, I've kind of shed most of

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Speaker 2: that and I'm sort of pursuing a different sort of

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Speaker 2: athletic approach to my life. But going back to the

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Speaker 2: Maxis story, so Keith and I knew each other from well,

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Speaker 2: what is it about forty something years ago? Forty five

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Speaker 2: years ago, I suppose, But about thirty five years ago

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Speaker 2: I was I've got a science background. I was kind

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Speaker 2: of making my own little supplements because I used to

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Speaker 2: work in the pharmaceutical kind of industry and I had

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Speaker 2: access to things like amino acids and proteins, and stuff

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Speaker 2: like that. So I used to make my own little

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Speaker 2: formulas up and I kind of had a few friends

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Speaker 2: of mine that I used to make them for. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: one day I rang up Keith. I hadn't seen him

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Speaker 2: for a while. I rang him up and I said, look,

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Speaker 2: Keith making these these supplements, and I'm wondering if you

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Speaker 2: might know if there would be a demand for these

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Speaker 2: sorts of things in the gyms and the people, you know.

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Speaker 2: And he said, oh, yeah, that sounds really good. So

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Speaker 2: he came around and we had a little bit of

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Speaker 2: all this stuff. I used to make the things, and

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Speaker 2: Keith would go out and sell them to all his

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Speaker 2: friends in all the gyms and health food stores and

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Speaker 2: things around Melbourne. And before you knew it, we had

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Speaker 2: this little business bubbling along. We were both working doing

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Speaker 2: other things, but we were doing this as a sideline.

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Speaker 2: I grew into a business and here we are many

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Speaker 2: years later, and it's turned into quite a good business

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Speaker 2: and it's been really good to us over many years.

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Speaker 1: It's really interesting because Max's and my business back then Harper's,

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Speaker 1: which like we're both pioneering in a way. Not that

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Speaker 1: we didn't fuck up a lot of things all three

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Speaker 1: of us, I'm sure, but when you were kind of

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Speaker 1: when the door to like training supplements, sports supplements, when

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Speaker 1: that door was starting to open, personal training was just

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Speaker 1: getting off the ground as well. I started Harpers in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety, so a year after you started. But I

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Speaker 1: was thinking back in the day when when I started

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Speaker 1: personal training, there was no there was no industry, there

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Speaker 1: was no regulations, there was no insurance, there was like

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Speaker 1: nobody knew what the fuck I was doing. It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: what you know, and people would come into my studio

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Speaker 1: and think it was a gym and they would want

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Speaker 1: to join. I'm like, you can't join, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: what a terrible business model a gym that you can't join? Right?

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Speaker 1: And I go, well, know, everything's by appointment and it's

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Speaker 1: all consulting and one on one or maybe two on one,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, like everyone said that would work,

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Speaker 1: and it ended up doing okay, of course, and now

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Speaker 1: it's proliferated and there's seventy seven fucking PT centers on

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Speaker 1: Hampton Street where I live. And I think the supplement industry,

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Speaker 1: for want of a better term, sports supplements was that

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Speaker 1: kind of similar, Like was it regulated was there any

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Speaker 1: rules or like back then it was it the wild West.

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Speaker 1: It was the wild West.

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Speaker 3: But I guess like pioneering, it's exciting and interesting grade

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Speaker 3: because yeah, like you're saying, we stuffed up too, you

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Speaker 3: know a number of times. But from that, you know,

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Speaker 3: you learn more from your mistakes than you do from

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Speaker 3: your victories.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that mirrors a lot in our life. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was new.

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Speaker 3: It was exciting because you know, some plentation was just

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Speaker 3: just just starting to break in. And obviously the path

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Speaker 3: the entry was a lot easier than it is of

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Speaker 3: course today. Yes, and yeah, yeah, sure we made mistakes,

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Speaker 3: but we learned very quickly because financially well and I

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Speaker 3: and we told the story a number of times. I

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Speaker 3: think we launched the business with one thousand dollars each,

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Speaker 3: you know, circle back to twenty twenty five. What could

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Speaker 3: you start with one thousand dollars each? You know, it

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Speaker 3: was ludicrous and that included buying stock, raw materials. Yes,

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Speaker 3: so very very very humble beginnings, but we kind of

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Speaker 3: had nothing to lose. And I remember there was a rival,

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Speaker 3: if you could call that supplement company, and I was

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Speaker 3: working part time in the gym to sort of pay

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Speaker 3: the bills and buy the food. They're still training a

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Speaker 3: bit back in those days. And the guy there is

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Speaker 3: a bit of a crusty old devil.

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Speaker 1: He said, you'll be broken three months, you know.

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Speaker 3: But I've said to him, as a bit of a

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Speaker 3: smart answer backward, to say, oh, well, it'll be a good,

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Speaker 3: interesting three months. I learned from it, and I've always

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Speaker 3: got my job. So circa thirty seven years later, you know,

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Speaker 3: we didn't broke and we've still got a job.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it was the same. It was

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Speaker 1: the same with what I did. Even my mum and dad,

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Speaker 1: who God bless them, like they were business people and

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Speaker 1: they're like, hey, that's not a business though, you know

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Speaker 1: that's not because even back then, I think my clients

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Speaker 1: were paying on average one hundred dollars for three sessions, right,

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Speaker 1: so it's thirty three dollars an hour, which now seems

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Speaker 1: like nobody would work for that. Well, so people would,

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Speaker 1: of course, still not too too bad of money. But

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Speaker 1: back in the day, when I first started training at

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Speaker 1: a place called track Side Sports, before I had my

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Speaker 1: own studio nine eighty six, people are paying one hundred

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Speaker 1: bucks a week to work out with me and my

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Speaker 1: parents are like and other friends. People aren't going to

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Speaker 1: keep doing that. That's crazy, Like nobody's like you could

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Speaker 1: join a gym for three months for one hundred dollars,

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Speaker 1: you know, or they could spend three hours with you

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Speaker 1: for one hundred dollars or have a three or six

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Speaker 1: month membership. In some cases, why on earth would people

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Speaker 1: do that? I think I wonder how many industries Keith

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Speaker 1: start off where you know, people shake their head. There

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Speaker 1: would be a lot and go, well, that's never going

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Speaker 1: to take off, And it's taken off absolutely. You know.

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Speaker 3: It's funny you mentioned track Side because I think you

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Speaker 3: invited me there one night, and I gave a bit of.

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Speaker 1: A presentation here too. We did. We both went down

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Speaker 1: on it, okay.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I'm not a as you can probably

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Speaker 3: tell from this, I'm not a great public speaker. I'm

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Speaker 3: not comfortable as such. But I remember that went particularly well.

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Speaker 1: I thought that that night. I don't know if you remember, Craig,

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Speaker 1: you might have thought it went. I feel like that

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Speaker 1: was I feel like that was the peak of your

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Speaker 1: professional speaking career. It was.

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Speaker 3: It's been Daniels since then anyway, with Soldier on. But

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Speaker 3: I remember looking into the crowd, and a lot of

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Speaker 3: those people in there no sort of average Joe's and

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Speaker 3: Jim go. So you know, some good rigs good for

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Speaker 3: ZX male and female. I thought at the time, even

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Speaker 3: way back then, I do remember it that there's something there,

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Speaker 3: there's something here that they were sort of sitting on.

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Speaker 3: Not every word, but you know, I say, you know,

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Speaker 3: this is this new, fresh, evolving market called sort of

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Speaker 3: supplements and improving your performance and getting bigger biceps and

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Speaker 3: narrower waste or whatever it might be. So there was

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Speaker 3: always that glint there that I sort of always honed

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Speaker 3: in on, and that that sort of repeated many times

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Speaker 3: at other places. We went and introduced into health food

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Speaker 3: store uners that traditionally sold glaize cherries and Echinasia, you know,

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Speaker 3: and we went along with the first big can of

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Speaker 3: protein at the time of seven and fifty grand was

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Speaker 3: the bigger size you can get.

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Speaker 1: I think Paul I came out with a one point

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Speaker 1: yeah at one point five or yeah too, Kilo.

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Speaker 3: Remember this beautiful gentleman in Ringwood and I took along

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Speaker 3: to him and says, hello, it looks like pool chlorine.

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Speaker 3: You know, like you said, it won't well well he

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Speaker 3: rang me up two days later. It was like twenty

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Speaker 3: five tubs and it sold, you know, so small steps,

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Speaker 3: but it was interesting how it connected with people, you know,

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Speaker 3: because we gave sort of value and quality and all

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Speaker 3: that was behind the product. But it had to sort

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Speaker 3: of say something or it had to sort of embellish

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Speaker 3: what we're trying to get across as who we were

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Speaker 3: as a company and.

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Speaker 1: People, Yeah, yeah, how much have you? I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is a weird question because there's no specific answer, but Paul,

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Speaker 1: I'll go to you like in terms of you know,

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Speaker 1: let's say you've got a good product. You know, Like

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Speaker 1: I knew nothing about marketing, branding, selling myself. Fortunately I

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Speaker 1: didn't need to have a million sales to make a profit,

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Speaker 1: right but with you guys, you kind of literally do

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Speaker 1: eventually need to have a million sales, you know, of sorts.

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Speaker 1: So so you create a good product, you've got you've

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Speaker 1: got your protein, and you've got your different supplements and

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Speaker 1: these are good and you're speaking to or selling to

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Speaker 1: a at that time and largely uninformed and uneducated market

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Speaker 1: and audience where people are just starting to become aware

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Speaker 1: of supplements. What kind of a learning curve was it

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Speaker 1: for you trying to build a business and a brand

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Speaker 1: and systems and all of that around the thing that

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Speaker 1: you originally created in your kitchen or wherever it was.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a very good question, Craig, because when you

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Speaker 2: first start out something like this, and back then we

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Speaker 2: didn't quite know what we're getting in for. We just

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Speaker 2: thought it was a good idea and that if we

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Speaker 2: liked these products ourselves. And I mean initially it started

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Speaker 2: because I was making these things for me to use myself,

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Speaker 2: and then you know, and then Keith got involved and

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Speaker 2: he was using them, and so you kind of made

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Speaker 2: things that you wanted to use for yourself. And then

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Speaker 2: I kind of had this view that some if I

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Speaker 2: think it's good, then other people probably would think it's

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Speaker 2: good as well. So that's kind of the I guess

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Speaker 2: the mantra I had when we created a product, that thought, well,

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Speaker 2: would I use this myself? So when we would go

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Speaker 2: to like a health food store, gyms are okay, because

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Speaker 2: I mean Keith could sell to the gym guys because

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Speaker 2: he spoke that language.

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Speaker 1: But we were into a health.

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Speaker 2: Food store, as Keith said, we were talking to perhaps

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Speaker 2: an owner who was a bit more into kind of

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Speaker 2: the more natural, health foody type products, and they weren't

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Speaker 2: really into sports supplements, and they probably hadn't really had

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Speaker 2: a lot to do with this sort of thing. But

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Speaker 2: I think when we went in there, we kind of

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Speaker 2: might have impressed them maybe with our passion, because we

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Speaker 2: both really believed in these things and we both use them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I started out this journey because funnily enough,

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Speaker 2: I started using Masashi as a competitive brand. But you know,

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Speaker 2: back in the day, they were kind of like the

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Speaker 2: bee's knees and Masashi amano acids were something. When I

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Speaker 2: used them, and I played a lot of sport when

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Speaker 2: I was younger, I actually felt that they gave me

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Speaker 2: a bit of an edge, you know. I really felt

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Speaker 2: good using amino acids, and so I started making my

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Speaker 2: own amino acid formulas, kind of looking what Masashi had done.

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Speaker 2: And then I spent a lot of time at at

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Speaker 2: monash Uni researching amino acids for sports performance or healing

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Speaker 2: after surgery and all these sorts of things. And I

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Speaker 2: was able to use that knowledge to create formula that

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Speaker 2: I felt would work, and I tried them all out

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Speaker 2: of myself, and they seem to work really well. And

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Speaker 2: then Keith and all the guys in you started using them,

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Speaker 2: and that's kind of how it all all got going.

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Speaker 2: So when we took these into a store, you know,

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Speaker 2: I could speak with some authority on these things because

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Speaker 2: I'd done a lot of the research. I've tried them

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Speaker 2: out myself, and the people in the store we mostly

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Speaker 2: bought into the idea, and so it was it was

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Speaker 2: pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we should also point out, I don't think we

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Speaker 1: have yet that your background is. Are you you're a

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Speaker 1: chemist a researcher. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I went to Minus did chemistry and buyo chemistry

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Speaker 2: at Minus UNI. Then I did chemical engineering at Swinburn

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Speaker 2: and that that led me into a career and that

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Speaker 2: sort of pharmaceutical biological sciences type of environment, and all

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Speaker 2: along the way I had this real keen interesting sports

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Speaker 2: and nutrition and built a base of knowledge as I went.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'd be just mostly experimenting on myself, and

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Speaker 2: then when we started this supplement company, I could start

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Speaker 2: experimenting on other people as well as myself.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, so you're actually credible. You're not like

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Speaker 1: Keith and I who made it in Plaster Scene and

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Speaker 1: sand Pitt and monkey Bars and then kicked off our careers. Well,

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Speaker 1: Baull went de Monish, I went to Pinridge. But you

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Speaker 1: like back in the day when I first met you,

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Speaker 1: and you're still you're both actually and I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: this everyone because they're bloody looking at me, but they're

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Speaker 1: both in very good shape. You both look way younger

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Speaker 1: than your years, and you're both very fit and strong.

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Speaker 1: But you back in the day, Keith, you were a

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Speaker 1: competitive bodybuilder, and I guess that especially when you're trying

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Speaker 1: to get these kinds of supplements off the ground and

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Speaker 1: you can walk into gyms around Melbourne and maybe around

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Speaker 1: Australia being in great shape, and people knowing who you

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Speaker 1: were probably opened a few doors and allowed a few conversations. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was certainly a part sport, Craig.

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Speaker 3: You know, it was a bit of sort of quasi

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Speaker 3: you know Jim Brow science that went with it. But

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Speaker 3: you know, I felt that not having tickets on this out,

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Speaker 3: I found I had a physic there was probably years

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Speaker 3: ahead of its type, you know, the more leads athletic

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Speaker 3: that was, you know, fairly well built, you know, And

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Speaker 3: I chased that bodybuilding dream for a number years. I

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Speaker 3: spent a lot of years in the States, and you

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Speaker 3: know some of the grandfathers of the sport, Charles Glass,

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Speaker 3: my Christian, all those, all those Iberian brothers. It was

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Speaker 3: a fantastic training ground, you know, to realize kind of

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Speaker 3: what's involved and what you didn't want to get involved in,

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Speaker 3: what you did want to get involved in it. There's

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Speaker 3: certainly dark side, but you take out the dark side,

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Speaker 3: it's a fantastic pursuit. You know, it's time douming your

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Speaker 3: need commitment. But all those things, I think hold you

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Speaker 3: in good stead for life. You know, there is some

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Speaker 3: colorful characters in the sport, no doubt I think that.

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Speaker 3: I agree.

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Speaker 1: It's like body building and and by the way, when

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Speaker 1: I say bodybuilding body shaping, you know, I don't mean

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Speaker 1: getting on stage necessarily at all. Everyone. I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: just the process of going into the gym and trying

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Speaker 1: to you know, make your body function and look and

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Speaker 1: feel and be a little bit different through some kind

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Speaker 1: of strategic process with you know, some supplements and some

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Speaker 1: food and some training and some stimuli and all that

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff. But for me, although I did get

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Speaker 1: a little obsessed for a while, as a lot of

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Speaker 1: people do, but overall, What it did for me was

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Speaker 1: just create habits and patterns and behaviors and an operating

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Speaker 1: system that you know, serve has served me well forever.

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Speaker 1: Like I really haven't I reckon since I was fourteen.

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Speaker 1: I might have had twenty days out of the gym,

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Speaker 1: you know, and as you know, I train with crab

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Speaker 1: Mark Lampard multiple mister Australia IFBB pro Forma pro and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. And these days, like the gym is

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Speaker 1: it's more fun than anything. It's like there's no there's

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Speaker 1: no fucking pbs being set, there's no there's no competition,

356
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Speaker 1: there's you know, we're too old to have massive egos

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Speaker 1: because there's nothing to be egotistical about. But just going

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Speaker 1: there lifting a few weights, you know, getting under a bar,

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Speaker 1: moving some moving some against some resistance, and connecting with

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Speaker 1: other people. For me, you know, that's been a lifelong

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Speaker 1: kind of you know benefit and value and not only

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Speaker 1: physiologically but also sociologically mentally emotionally. I think I would

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Speaker 1: be nuts if I didn't have the gym. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of like some people have yoga or they have TM

365
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Speaker 1: or they have whatever. I think for me, that's my meditation,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think it's I think it's for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people done the right way. It's certainly a positive,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, like you said, there can be a dark side.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, Paul, about the evolution of

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Speaker 1: the the industry, like from nine nine making the potions

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Speaker 1: in your house and showing Keith and then going out

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Speaker 1: and about and pedaling your wares until twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 1: it seems like every second person on social media has

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Speaker 1: got their own brand of something or their own you know,

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Speaker 1: as you said before Keith it I think you said

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Speaker 1: something like, you know, it was a lot harder then

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Speaker 1: and now the barriers to entry are low. It's like

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Speaker 1: I reckon, if I wanted to have Craig Harper protein,

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Speaker 1: not that I want to do that, not that anybody

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Speaker 1: would want to buy it, but I could probably get

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Speaker 1: that done in a couple of weeks and sell it

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Speaker 1: on my website and sell it through this podcast. And

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Speaker 1: because all I'd need is somebody who can do that,

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Speaker 1: which I reckon, I know ten people who could do that.

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Speaker 1: So it's really changed, Paul.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Craig, Well, I think when I started training back

387
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Speaker 2: in the day, so when I was a lad, I

388
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Speaker 2: used to play ice hockey, and I was pretty skinny,

389
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Speaker 2: so I need to beef myself up a bit for it.

390
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Speaker 2: So when I started training, I just went to the

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Speaker 2: Nana Warding gym and didn't know really much about supplements.

392
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Speaker 2: And I went to a health food store in Hawthorne

393
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Speaker 2: and I said, I need something to build me up,

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Speaker 2: and they had there was a product and you probably

395
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Speaker 2: remember this Craig called body Bulk by Neutral Life. I'm

396
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Speaker 2: not sure. I think it was pretty much a can

397
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Speaker 2: of skim milk powder with flavor in it, you know,

398
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Speaker 2: And so I would I would religiously take this stuff morning,

399
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Speaker 2: noon and night. And that was about the only kind

400
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Speaker 2: of weight gainy type supplement that I think was around

401
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Speaker 2: back in those days. And this is sort of in

402
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 2: the in the early seventies where you know, fast forward

403
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Speaker 2: to today and there's you go into a nutrition warehouse

404
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: of one of the big supplement stores around Australia and

405
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 2: there are literally walls and walls of different formulas of

406
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Speaker 2: protein and different brands and Australian brands and overseas brands,

407
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Speaker 2: and it's mind boggling how many there are. So there's

408
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Speaker 2: there's been an amazing evolution and I think when we started,

409
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Speaker 2: doubt there might have been two or three Australian brands.

410
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Speaker 2: As I mentioned Masashi, there was our Cells, and there

411
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Speaker 2: were maybe one or two others, but.

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Speaker 1: That's about all there were when.

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Speaker 2: I guess back in the late two thousand and about

414
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Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, I think it was we started.

415
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Speaker 2: So we started our Max's product range, which was arranged

416
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Speaker 2: sort of target the bodybuilders.

417
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Speaker 1: The guys, but we also saw through the.

418
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Speaker 2: Two thousands that a lot of the females were the ladies,

419
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Speaker 2: were getting into training, and they just a lot of

420
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Speaker 2: them didn't want to take a male oriented product. It

421
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Speaker 2: was you know, I guess nutritionally probably was okay, but

422
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Speaker 2: all the marketing was you know, for big, muscly, smelly guys,

423
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Speaker 2: and so we kind of recognized that and we launched

424
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Speaker 2: our female brand, which we called, you know, creatively called Maxine.

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Speaker 2: And that's that's been around now, as I said, since

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Speaker 2: two thousand and ninety nine, and that's.

427
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Speaker 1: Gone really well.

428
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Speaker 2: What we what we sort of found was there's always

429
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Speaker 2: really been a market for male products since that sort

430
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Speaker 2: of those even the nineteen seventies, but the female market

431
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Speaker 2: has really kicked on, particularly in the last three or

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Speaker 2: four years, and I think a lot of companies now

433
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,719
Speaker 2: have realized that that women are really looking for products

434
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 2: that are specific to the female physiology. And also they're

435
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 2: marketed to women and not marketed just as a bloke

436
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: taking the blokes protein and putting it in a pink label.

437
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: You know.

438
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 2: So there's been you know, there's been quite a lot

439
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 2: of maturity coming into the into the market as well,

440
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,439
Speaker 2: and there's been lots of different different trends.

441
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the trend in.

442
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 2: The last probably five years has been not protein has

443
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 2: always been a big thing, but pre workouts has become

444
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 2: a massive thing, you know, just most guys, particular in

445
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: particular women are getting into it as well. But most

446
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: guys feel like they can't train unless they take a

447
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 2: pre workout, and you know, they feel like if they

448
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: train and they haven't got a pre workout, they don't

449
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 2: train properly. So I think pre workouts have become a

450
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 2: bit of a crutch. I mean, we sell pre workouts

451
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: because they're very popular. There are some pre workouts will

452
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: kind of almost blow your head off. We don't subscribe

453
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 2: to that theory.

454
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 3: Really.

455
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: We sort of think.

456
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 2: Pre workout should give you a boost. But really, you know,

457
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 2: the motivation has got to come from within. If you

458
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: can't really train hard without taking a pre workout, then

459
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: you kind of need to have a little bit of

460
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 2: a look at yourself.

461
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I'm not sure that the sixty one

462
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: year old Host of the Year project with periodic actual

463
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: fibrillation should be taking those Yeah. Well, that's the thing

464
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: I think with I reckon with everything, whether it's protein powder,

465
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 1: whether it's pre workouts, whether it's coffee, whether it's cheeseburgers, Like,

466
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: it's all about the application and the dose. Do you

467
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's like if I have two

468
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: coffees a day, because I, like I said, I have

469
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 1: a little bit of af every now and then two

470
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: coffees to day, I'm good. Three coffees a bit borderline,

471
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: four coffees, I'm fucked. Like I feel anxious, I can

472
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: feel my heart in my chest. And so it's it's

473
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: learning how your your body works, you know. And I

474
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: think that I was going to say to you, Keith,

475
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but do you

476
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: remember or you might know Paul, the guy that's set

477
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: up or one of the guys that set up. Masashi

478
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: was Tim Horwood. You know you know of him? Yeah,

479
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: we do. Yeah. So he used to own a gym

480
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: in him in a couple of blokes who used to

481
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: own this mangy shitty gym in me tone called the Stables.

482
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 1: Do you remember that vaguely? Yes? Yeah, yeah. So the

483
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: Stables was, with all respect, just a shithole of a place,

484
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: but awesome, awesome. It was this old factory. So to

485
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: all my listeners who were like, this is three dinosaurs

486
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: reminiscing exactly what it is, right, but me in the eighties,

487
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 1: so I would have been about I went to Western

488
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: Australia and I worked on a construction site and in

489
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: a gym for a year, So construction through the day,

490
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: gyms at night. Then I came back. Then I got

491
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: this job in Inverted Commas from three three pm till

492
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: nine pm at this gym called the Stables. I say

493
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 1: the word Jim loosely. It was just an old warehouse

494
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: that they rented and filled with gym equipment. No ladies

495
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: train there. Maybe once a month a lady would come

496
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: in and go fuck and then run out. But it

497
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: was just all these Neanderthals training. We had one hundred

498
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: pound plates. We had two hundred pound dumb else. It

499
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: was just like some Neanderthal kind of habitat. But I

500
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: worked like Tim and another guy called Andy I forget

501
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: and another dude owned that and that was yeah, that

502
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: was back at the That was just as I think

503
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: back in those days, Massashi were getting off the ground.

504
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: So that was the Yeah, it's really you guys and

505
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: them were really at the forefront I think back in

506
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: those days.

507
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well they were got a cutting edge massage

508
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: and they were really quite a successful company back then.

509
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: And you know, they still are today unfortunately or not unfortunately,

510
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 2: but they're not obviously in the same hands. They've changed

511
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 2: hands a few times over the years. But we're proud

512
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 2: to say we're still the same company. I still aim

513
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 2: owned by the same guys, which Keith and myself, and

514
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 2: we're still patting away here in Australia making the stuff

515
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 2: everything here, employing Australia people as well.

516
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're pretty proud of that. Well, I use

517
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: and recommend it. I'm wearing my Max's T shirt right now.

518
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: By the way, everyone, I'm not paid by Maxes. I'm

519
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: not like this is I'm not doing this because there's

520
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: any bloody commercial arrangement. I just these guys and I

521
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: have been friends forever. But we do have something maybe

522
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: a little bit exciting, not no commercial element involved, but

523
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: something exciting that the three of us might be doing,

524
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: which I'll announce as some stage down, I would say

525
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: in the next month. I wanted to ask you about

526
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: of all the supplements that I jumped on your website

527
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: just before we went live and had a look, and

528
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, fucking hell, there's so much stuff, right, and

529
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: then on top of that, there's a million other things

530
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: as well. What are the what are the big ticket

531
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: items at the moment? Be the one of you like,

532
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: what what are people buying the most? So apart from

533
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: pre workout, but what pre workout createam I guess is

534
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: right up near the top. What else is super popular

535
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: these days?

536
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 3: Well, I think just just I guess a little bit there, Craig.

537
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 3: I think it's what we've learned is that certain companies

538
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 3: and brands, and some great brands out there and companies

539
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 3: as well in our space their competitors, yes, but you

540
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 3: know there's a healthy respect between us all I think,

541
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: and certain companies and brands get associated with particular market segments,

542
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 3: like I guess we're well known for our proteins. You know,

543
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 3: we do a great job, I think, a great job

544
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 3: with those, and we're known for that.

545
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: We've found over there.

546
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 3: We try and vary into other spaces, like pre workouts

547
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 3: are solid, but we're certainly not known as a as

548
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 3: a pre workout brand, you know, So we stick to

549
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 3: our lane and it serves us very well. Whereas a

550
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 3: lot of the more young, younger companies, and most companies

551
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 3: compared to us are younger, and with the expansion of

552
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 3: social media in the way we connect with people, you know,

553
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 3: we took many, many years to kind of get up.

554
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: To a certain level of success.

555
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 3: And well today you know, in a very short period

556
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 3: of time through social media and the way you market

557
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 3: your products, you can go to zero to one hundred

558
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 3: and one or two years. Yes, other products any better

559
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 3: than others, Maybe not, maybe so in some cases, I

560
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 3: think we've were just stuck to that mantra of sticking

561
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 3: stay in your lane really and proteins, you know, Proadin bars, cookies,

562
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 3: that type of space is we're extremely strong at and

563
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: we don't send to venture too much into the other zones.

564
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think just to further that, probably if you

565
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: look in the protein space, there's.

566
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: Been quite a lot of movement.

567
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: I mean the dairy proteins, like particularly the way proteins

568
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: have been that I guess the mainstay of most supplements

569
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: in this space for.

570
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: Many many years.

571
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: But in the last probably five to eight years probably

572
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 2: there was there's been a move towards plant based proteins

573
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: and very good quality products in that area. And then

574
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: probably a little bit more recently, it's been that sort

575
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: of collagen style protein and they become super popular, and

576
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 2: I think they've all got their place. I mean, some

577
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: people move to say a plant based protein because they

578
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: may have some issues with dairy, you know, from a

579
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 2: digestive point of view, or they might just have a

580
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: view that they want to pursue more of a plant

581
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 2: based diet than than an animal based diet. But then

582
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: on the collagen front, collagen proteins they are they're an

583
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 2: animal based product, as most people would know that they're

584
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 2: kind of made from the connective type tissues rather than

585
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: the muscle type tissues that you would have in meat

586
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 2: from things like bovine or marine some fish and cows basically,

587
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 2: but the the thing that a lot of people don't

588
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: realize with collagen proteins is that collagen proteins are great

589
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 2: for joint health and helping to repair joints like ligaments,

590
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: and they're great for skin, and they're great for nails

591
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: and hair and those sorts of things, because the major

592
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 2: protein in things like your hair and your skin and

593
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: your nails and your joints is a collagen protein, but

594
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 2: muscle protein it has a different sort of amino acid profile.

595
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: So if you're taking a collagen only for muscle growth,

596
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 2: you probably want to make sure you're having other protein

597
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: sources in your diet because collagen protein doesn't have all

598
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: the amino acids in the right proportion.

599
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: So that's just just a little tip.

600
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: If you're taking only a collagen protein, make sure you're

601
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: getting good protein sources from other things like meat or

602
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 2: plant sources or whatever.

603
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: So just to trap for your on plays.

604
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 2: You know, there are many different protein types on the

605
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 2: market now and people are spoiled for choice, and there

606
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 2: are also lots of different formulas. So you know, we

607
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: have in our range, we have formulas for shredding and

608
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: dropping body fat. We have formulas that help people gain weight.

609
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: We have formulas that help people sleep, and several other

610
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: variations as well.

611
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I use the I don't know what's the one

612
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: that I have. I should at the top of my head,

613
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: but I have every morning I have because I get

614
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: asked this right. In fact, I did an episode a

615
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: couple of days ago called My Health Protocol, which is

616
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: not at all exciting. But people want to know how

617
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: I train and what I eat and all that stuff,

618
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: so and I told them I have every morning. I

619
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: have the same thing, which is very boring. But I

620
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: have almonds, I have oats, I have cilium husk. Sometimes

621
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: I have some seeds. But on top of that, I

622
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: have forty grams of your protein powder. I have the

623
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: chocolate one, which is fucking delicious, so it's like a

624
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: big And then what I do, because I'm weird, I

625
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: put it all in a blender so it comes out

626
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: like flour. And then I put almond milk because me

627
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 1: and lactose don't go that great. And yes, everyone, I realize,

628
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 1: almond milk is not milk. It's just fucking distilled water

629
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: with an almond waved at it. I know exactly what

630
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: I'm doing. Our best marketing of all time four dollars

631
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 1: a liter for distilled water with an almond. But I

632
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: have that every day, and as you guys know, I

633
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: don't eat lunch, so I eat that, which is about

634
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty or one hundred and seventy grams,

635
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: and then whatever I put on top of milk with

636
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: the milk, and I personally I have zero hunger till

637
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: about six or seven at night, which works for me

638
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: because I find and this is the variability about nutrition

639
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: and supplements and calories, is that what will be ideal

640
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: for Keith won't work for Poor, what will be awesome

641
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 1: for Craig won't work for either of them. And you're

642
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: trying to find out with all of their stuff, everything

643
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: from training to nutrition, to sleep, to hydration to supplement.

644
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: You're trying to figure out how your body responds optimally

645
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: to these different things. You know, like we know, correct

646
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, Paul, But like creatine, isn't creatine

647
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: pretty good for like eighty percent of people, but for

648
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: twenty percent it does not much at all? That's what

649
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: they used to say, or is that not true?

650
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think, well, you know, it's very individual thing.

651
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 2: So some people get a really good benefit out of creatine,

652
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 2: and other people get a minor benefit. I think most

653
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: people get a minor benefit. It also depends on your diet.

654
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: So the answer to all of these things, you know

655
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 2: when you're talking about nutrition usually is it depends. So

656
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 2: it depends on what you're currently eating. So as an example,

657
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 2: if you eat a reasonable amount of red meat, there's

658
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 2: quite a bit of creatine in red meat, so you

659
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 2: will probably find that your level of creatine in your

660
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: muscles is reasonably good if you're on a normal diet

661
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 2: where you're eating a.

662
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: Reasonable amount of red meat.

663
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 2: If you're on a more of a plant based diet,

664
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: you're probably not getting a lot of creatine at all,

665
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 2: and so if you take a creatine supplement, you'll probably

666
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: find you'll see it quite a noticeable difference in your

667
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 2: energy levels, the amount of weight you can push.

668
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: You probably will put.

669
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 2: On muscle reasonably quickly if you haven't been using it before,

670
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 2: and you're training at the gym and you're getting a

671
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 2: reasonable protein intake. So there's different things now. Then there's

672
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 2: that sort of genetic makeup that lays over the top.

673
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 2: So some people are good creatine responders and some people aren't,

674
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 2: and it's as we said, it's an individual thing.

675
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: So wow, I think that goes not very much everything.

676
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 1: Do you know the main benefit for me of creatine?

677
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: And I use it for recovery, and I use it

678
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: for energy, and I use it for training and all

679
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: of that. But for me, the main benefit sounds like

680
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: a sales pitch everyone, It isn't. It's just true is

681
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: cognitive function. It makes my brain work better. And so

682
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: again everyone, not a prescription or a recommendation, but I

683
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: actually take fifteen grams a day. I think the recommended

684
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: is like five of five ten, but I take fifteen

685
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: and literally within half an hour my brain works better.

686
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: Not that I mean it works pretty well anyway, but

687
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 1: it's like, literally, my brain is my tool like that's

688
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: my that's in my bloody toolkit. Is my brain in

689
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: my mind, and that needs to work pretty well. I

690
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: was going to ask you about so with without trying

691
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: to get too sciencey, right, and I'm not a big

692
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: fan of ardiis recommend the daily intakes, but the RDI

693
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: in Australia for protein, which is ridiculous in my opinion.

694
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 1: Everyone's point eight of a graand per kilo of body weight.

695
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: So let's say, someone like me who weighs eighty five,

696
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 1: but let's round me up to ninety. So ninety times

697
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: point eight of a gram is seventy two grams of protein, right, Like,

698
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 1: that's just not enough for me, And I'm a sixty

699
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 1: one year old bloke. Have you got any idea? And again,

700
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: it depends a very personal person. But I feel like

701
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: somewhere around one and a half to two grams per

702
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: kilo of body weight for people who are working out

703
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: is probably closer to the mark.

704
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're pretty close. I think there if

705
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 2: you look at a lot of the literature now, there's

706
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 2: a lot of evidence that shows that that sort of

707
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: level of one and a half to two grams per

708
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 2: kilogram of body weight is probably about where you need

709
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: to be, particularly if you're reasonably active. Now, there's a

710
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: few advisors on that. First of all, if you're sedentry

711
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: and so you're sitting at a desk all day and

712
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 2: you're not doing a lot of activity, you can probably

713
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 2: survive on point eight of a gram. I mean, I

714
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 2: use the word survive, but really what you want to

715
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 2: do is thrive. You don't want to just survive. So

716
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 2: to thrive, I think a minimum if you're not doing

717
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 2: any activity, should be one gram per kilogram body weight.

718
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 2: But I would say that if you're doing any sort

719
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 2: of activity, one and a half grams to to you know,

720
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,240
Speaker 2: the harder you train, the more often, so you're trainingly

721
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: every day, you know you're up that two grams a

722
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 2: kilo per kilogram of body weight would be about where

723
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: you need to be. Anybody, whether they're training in the gym,

724
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 2: they're doing you know, they're more of an endurance athlete,

725
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 2: so they're doing they're a runner or a cyclist or

726
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,720
Speaker 2: you know, playing football or whatever it is, they should

727
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 2: be up.

728
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: In that sort of one and a half.

729
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 2: Grams per kilogram of body weight to two grams. And

730
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 2: it all depends on your exercise level, I guess so,

731
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 2: And that's what you really need to do do thrive

732
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 2: rather than survive. And the other complicating factor is what

733
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 2: we find as we get older is that and you

734
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 2: know we three are in this category, that there's what's

735
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: called anabolic resistance. And antabolic resistance relates to your body

736
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 2: doesn't absorb and use protein anywhere near as efficiently as

737
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 2: it used to when you were twenty years old. So

738
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: so base if you're taking in a gram of protein

739
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 2: per kilogram body weight when you're twenty, you're probably going

740
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 2: to use a lot more of that to build muscle

741
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:08,720
Speaker 2: than if you do it when you're sixty.

742
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: So to compensate for that, you need to take in

743
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: more protein.

744
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 2: You just need to provide more substrate for your body

745
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 2: to get access to so that it's there when it

746
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 2: needs to build build muscle or maintain muscle. So that

747
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: makes it even more important now. I mean, Craig, you

748
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: could probably talk to this, although you probably talk to

749
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 2: your clients and that sort of thing I have over

750
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 2: the years, But saying you need one hundred and fifty

751
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 2: grams of protein, for example, A lot of people just

752
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 2: don't understand what that actually means. You know, how what

753
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 2: is one hundred and fifty grams protein? I don't know

754
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 2: if you want to talk.

755
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: About that, but I think people confuse, you know, they go,

756
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 1: I add one hundred and fifty gram breast of chicken.

757
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: I add one hundred and fifty grams of protein. So no,

758
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: you didn't know that's a protein source that I mean,

759
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: I don't have an I think there might be thirty

760
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 1: grams of protein in a chicken breast that size or something,

761
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: it probably forty maybe forty five grams, and in an

762
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: egg there might be six grams of protein or give

763
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: or take five or six grams. So yeah, getting Actually

764
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: for somebody like me, let's say I went two grams

765
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: per kilo of body weight, that would put me out

766
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy grams of protein, which is a

767
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: fair bit of actual protein, and that requires a fair

768
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: bit of food. But my dinner is quite big, my

769
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: breakfast is quite big. Every now and then, if I

770
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: am hungry through the day, which I don't often get

771
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: a hungry, but if I am, I'll I'll just make

772
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: a protein drink with that protein powder I spoke about before,

773
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: or eat a few almonds or a bit of both.

774
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's I actually think, Like what's interesting right

775
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: now is until about five years ago, you know, we

776
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: spoke a lot about lifespan primarily, and now we're talking

777
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: a lot more about health span, which is literally very

778
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: relevant for us, you know, three dinosaurs, but which is

779
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: literally how long how long can I live? And of

780
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: those years that I do live, how well can I live?

781
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: Can I be somewhere close to optimal for my age

782
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: and my genetic potential, you know. So I feel like,

783
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: you know, Keith, you're seventy one or whatever you are,

784
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: and you don't. I don't, I don't know. I can't speak,

785
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: but you definitely don't look anywhere near your age, and

786
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: Paul neither to you. And I think, and it ain't

787
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,760
Speaker 1: about aesthetics. It's ultimately about health and performance and function

788
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: and energy and wellness. But I think now we're starting

789
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 1: to understand that this doesn't, you know, getting old doesn't

790
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: necessarily need to come with some fucking massive, never ending,

791
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: irreversible decline of health and energy and cognitive function, like

792
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: we're realizing now. And I think people who aren't athletes,

793
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: and people who aren't clinics, and who aren't in health

794
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: or fitness per se, I think people are getting smarter

795
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 1: and starting to track things and starting to diorize their food,

796
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: and you know, they're they're kind of their sleep and

797
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 1: their resting heart rate and their kind of energy levels.

798
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: So I think overall, like we're starting to become a

799
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: lot more aware and responsible and enlightened around managing ourselves

800
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: into older age. What do you two think?

801
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a that's a great point. Craigan and I

802
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 3: think there's a there's a tipping point, you know, there's

803
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 3: a tipping point for me was firstly, you know, when

804
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 3: you when you kind of build this behemoth physic or

805
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 3: whatever you like to call it, there's that mental and

806
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 3: sort of psychological and physical aspect of when you're starting

807
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 3: to downsize in dealing.

808
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: With that, that's one part of it.

809
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 3: And some people, I guess it's like US aflor footballers

810
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 3: when they give up their career. It's after football, they

811
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 3: struggle with a few things, not all, but if there's

812
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 3: a replacement in your life or something else as a

813
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 3: priority in life. Could be family, it could be relationships,

814
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 3: or could be a new sport.

815
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's.

816
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 3: Important to get that simulation. But getting back to some

817
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 3: of the food intake, my theory has always been eat

818
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 3: towards your age. You know, certainly your appetite lessons, as

819
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 3: your pardin requirements, get the types of food that you

820
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 3: like to consume does change.

821
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: But mine, really I've kind.

822
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 3: Of followed a bodybuilding lifestyle and diet all my life.

823
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 3: I don't actually lift weights anymore. I do other things.

824
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 3: And you kindly reminded me last couple of weeks when

825
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 3: we met. You should be lifting some weights, Keith, and

826
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 3: you're probably right, Craig, So I'm thinking of lifting some

827
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 3: few not that I don't know, but you know, I

828
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 3: think you do know. So I just think, you know,

829
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 3: you eat to eat to your age, and your lifestyle

830
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 3: should be adjusted and regulated to your age as well.

831
00:44:58,400 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think.

832
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 3: Because you're seventy he should be doing this and run

833
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 3: around that block or walk around the block any fast

834
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 3: or quicker. I think it's a belief in yourself what

835
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 3: works well for you. I just pull one last dinosaur

836
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 3: out of the cupboard because this is probably the only

837
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 3: forum I get to say these things. I remember when

838
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 3: I first went the Golds Gym in the States and

839
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 3: the bastion of bodybuilding.

840
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: There's a guy called Mike Mensa.

841
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 3: A lot of the younger listeners wouldn't know, but obviously

842
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 3: Craig and Paul knows it very well. He was like

843
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 3: the father of heavy duty training, and he was just

844
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 3: a real behemoth. He used to walk into Golds Gym.

845
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 3: He go to Dunkin Donuts and get a six pack

846
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 3: of ice doughnuts and a big black coffee like it

847
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 3: looked like in a gallon jar, you know, the coffee,

848
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 3: and that was his pre workout.

849
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: He was the father of pre workouts.

850
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 3: And this probably would be in showing me age will

851
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 3: and truly, but this would be nineteen eighty five.

852
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: Ye, he'd walk into that and he used to.

853
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 3: He was a very powerful guy, you know, squat six

854
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 3: hundred pounds in the day for reps and bench press anyway.

855
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 3: So I kind of got to him one day and

856
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 3: got at the side and I was chatting to about it.

857
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 3: And he was a very personal guy, and people thought

858
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 3: he was hard to approach, but I kind of break

859
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,959
Speaker 3: down those few of those barriers and we chatted away.

860
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 3: So can you let me in on a secret? A

861
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 3: secret everybody thinks I eat six ice doanuts a day

862
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 3: and drink coffee. He said, I'd eat one, throw the

863
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 3: other five away, and he take two mouthfuls of that coffee.

864
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: That's hilarious. But he would train. And I said, the reason,

865
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: you know the reason, Mike, He says, it was a belief. Brother.

866
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 3: It was a belief that he could lift those ways.

867
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 3: It was a belief that he could be so strong,

868
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 3: and it was always a belief that he's going to,

869
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 3: you know, build us Yeah, it's enormous physic So you know,

870
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 3: I know you're a bit of a mind man, and

871
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 3: motivations and so forth. You know, that belief in yourself

872
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 3: no matter what age, it's such a crucial.

873
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: Thing, one hundred percent. Oh yeah, that's such a funny

874
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: story and a good story. I trained in I went

875
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 1: over there when I was young. I went in nineteen

876
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: eighty five and I, oh no, that was the first time.

877
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: Second time I went, I was it was nine and

878
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: ninety five, so I was thirty two and I trained

879
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: in golds in Venice for about two weeks. And I

880
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: was pretty big and in pretty good shape, and I

881
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: looked like I'd never worked out. I looked like it

882
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: was my first time in a gym, you know. For

883
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: me anyway, I was like, I felt, I'm pretty big.

884
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 1: I think I was maybe one hundred kilos. I wasn't

885
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: too fat, like I was probably ten or twelve percent fat,

886
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: two hundred and twenty pounds, pretty good shape for my

887
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 1: not very good genetics. And yeah, I just looked like

888
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: a fucking novice. And it's funny how you go into

889
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: one room and you're amazing. You go into another room

890
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: you're a shitkicker. You go into one room, you're a genius.

891
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: You go into another room, you're an idiot. It's all context,

892
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: a pennant. But I think, look, another important part of

893
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 1: this I reckon is, you know, like the chronological age

894
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: doesn't need to be representative of or in alignment with,

895
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: you know, biological age. And my listeners have heard this

896
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: a lot. But of course, of course how old we are,

897
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: how many years we've been on the planet is a factor.

898
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: Of course, it's a variable that we can't escape. But

899
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: we all know sixty year olds that look like forty five,

900
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: and sixty year olds that look like eighty, you know,

901
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,879
Speaker 1: and there are people that happen to you know, whether

902
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: or not they're genetically gifted, or whether or not they've

903
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: optimized their genetics through choices and behaviors and lifestyle, or

904
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 1: whether or not it's a bit of both. But you know,

905
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: one thing is true for everyone, and that is you

906
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: can't get another body, right, You can't go get You

907
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: can replace most things, but you can't replace that. So

908
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: I think there's a little bit of a swing happening

909
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: where people are becoming maybe because it's although a lot

910
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: of what's on the internet is rubbish, But I think

911
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: if you know where to look on what to look for,

912
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: you can get great information. Let's talk about We've got

913
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: about another five or so minutes, Paul. What do you

914
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: think about moving forward for the industry like for supplements.

915
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: To me, it seems like it's becoming very online centric.

916
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: Is that right? Yeah?

917
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 2: Well, I think interestingly, if you look at sort of

918
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 2: global friends, there is a real move to people buying

919
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 2: everything online. I think there's certainly still a very thriving

920
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 2: what we call bricks and more to people going into

921
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 2: stores looking at getting advice from people in store, but

922
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 2: I think more and more people, first of all, are

923
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 2: doing their research online and getting all the information they need.

924
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 2: I think the other trend I see, and I'm sure

925
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: you said this too, Craig, is that people are getting

926
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 2: advice not from what I call a qualified source, but

927
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 2: from an influencer or influencers. So there are there's a

928
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 2: million experts out there on YouTube and Facebook and Instagram

929
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 2: and TikTok and other platforms that are emerging, and they

930
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 2: present well because they've got a good physique, male or female,

931
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 2: and they give advice and sometimes it's conflicting with other

932
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 2: people's advice and people just don't really know what is

933
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 2: that advice correct or not not correct?

934
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, there.

935
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 2: Are all these different nutritional gurus out there, there's people

936
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:55,760
Speaker 2: with training advice and whatever.

937
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: I think.

938
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 2: My take on this is be very careful when you

939
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 2: are searching for information on social media because whether it

940
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 2: be about diets, whether it be about supplements, whether it

941
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 2: be about training advice, because you really need to sort

942
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 2: of check out the credentials of the people who are

943
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:22,359
Speaker 2: giving that advice before you take that and run with it.

944
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 2: Most of the time the advice that you'll get maybe

945
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 2: moderately harmless, but sometimes that can be quite dangerous. And

946
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 2: so that's something where getting advice from qualified sources to

947
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 2: me is super important. And in the supplement world, there

948
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 2: are plenty of fly by nights in the supplement world,

949
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 2: so just be a little bit careful with that as well.

950
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, so there's some of the trends I see emerging.

951
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 2: But as Keith sort of said earlier, there are new

952
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 2: companies entering the supplement and space every day, and you

953
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 2: don't need to have too much behind you to sell supplement.

954
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 2: So a good example of that is in Australia, we

955
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 2: are governed by depending on the product, there's a Therapeutic

956
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 2: Goods Administration, so they preside over products that are kind

957
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 2: of things that are presumed to be like a drug

958
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:29,280
Speaker 2: type product, tablets, capsules, injectable products and these sorts of things.

959
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 2: So if you go into a local pharmacy, a chemist

960
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 2: warehouse or the like, most of the vitamins and the

961
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,720
Speaker 2: supplements that you'll find on the shelves of a chemist

962
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 2: warehouse are overseen by the Therapeutic Goods Administration and they'll

963
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 2: have what's called an artg listable or registrable number on

964
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 2: the front of them. Most health food stores, when you

965
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 2: go into a health food store in Australia, the majority

966
00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 2: of products that are on the shells or health food

967
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 2: stores overseen by Food Standards Australia and New Zealand or

968
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 2: we a breve out that to phyzants and there's a

969
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 2: list of regulations that companies like ourselves must comply with

970
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:17,439
Speaker 2: when we produce these sorts of products. But you can

971
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 2: buy a lot of products online from companies that have

972
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 2: that just don't even look at these regulations and put

973
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 2: whatever they like into the supplements and a lot of

974
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 2: these companies are offshore, so you can you know, they

975
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 2: advertise products they're offshore, and you don't really even know

976
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 2: what facility they're made in. It could be made in

977
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 2: someone's garage somewhere or other on some obscure in some

978
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 2: obscure country. I believe there are some companies that are

979
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,720
Speaker 2: selling themselves as being an offshore company, but they're actually

980
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 2: making the products in Australia, but they're not making them

981
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:01,280
Speaker 2: to any regulations. So once again, you when you're buying products,

982
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 2: just be careful who you're buying them from. Have a

983
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 2: look at the website, have a look at the credentials

984
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 2: of the company that you're buying from, to make sure

985
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,280
Speaker 2: that the products that you're the product that you're buying

986
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 2: is from a reputable company and what the product sees

987
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 2: is in it is actually in it. Because there are

988
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,399
Speaker 2: lots of cases in the industry where products are being

989
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 2: tested and the ingredients that are supposed that are on

990
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,280
Speaker 2: the label certainly aren't in the product.

991
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: So there's lots of traps there.

992
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 2: And buying from a reputable Australian company and I'd like

993
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 2: to think we're one of those, and there's plenty of others.

994
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 2: You know, I've mentioned companies like Masashi. There are other

995
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 2: good companies body Science, there's Muscle Nation. These companies are

996
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 2: all very reputable companies. I trust what they say they

997
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 2: put into their products. But there are other companies that

998
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 2: are a little bit more fly by night that I

999
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 2: would look at and go, I don't know if I

1000
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 2: belie what's on the label of those I look at

1001
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 2: them and I go, hmm, that doesn't sort of been

1002
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 2: true with perhaps surprise they're charging versus what they're saying

1003
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 2: is actually in the product.

1004
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 1: So I had something come into my Instagram feed last night.

1005
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of the company. It definitely

1006
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: wasn't new, but it was this new blend of two peptides.

1007
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 1: One of them was I think BP whatever one five yeah, yeah,

1008
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: and then another one and it's this new combination and

1009
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: that the advertising was razzle dazzle, and they made all

1010
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,399
Speaker 1: these outrageous claims about all the shit that it did.

1011
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: And then I went, I'm going to try and find

1012
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: any research that backs this advertisement, and so I did

1013
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: a deep dive. I actually got off my phone. I

1014
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 1: was on my phone. Then I came to my computer

1015
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 1: where I'm sitting now, and I tried to find any science,

1016
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,720
Speaker 1: any research, any way of validating what they were saying,

1017
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 1: and there's fucking nothing. But the way that they talk.

1018
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this is not science, this is not

1019
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: this is marketing. But it's written as though it's science.

1020
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,399
Speaker 1: And that's you know, that terrifies me for people. And

1021
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,399
Speaker 1: that's one story. Another story is I had something come up.

1022
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: This guy was talking to another guy in an interview

1023
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 1: and he was saying he was talking about nicotine. This

1024
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 1: is a funny segue, but he's talking about nicotine and

1025
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 1: the benefits of nicotine, right, you know, some alleged health

1026
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: benefits right now? Anyway, I know people use nicotine or nicorette,

1027
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 1: some of those gums and stuff has a new tropic

1028
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: or whatever. But he was saying, Oh, people get all

1029
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: hysterical about nicotine, But do you know what has What

1030
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: has the second highest ingredient of all the food that

1031
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:57,959
Speaker 1: has the second highest amount of nicotine in it is eggplant.

1032
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 1: I'm like really, And then under that I think was tomato,

1033
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 1: and then white potato or something. I'm like, who the

1034
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 1: fuck knew that eggplant has I'm like, is this true?

1035
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 1: So then I started doing some research. I'm like, does

1036
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: eggplant and I went down a rabbit hole. Well, yes

1037
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: it does, but you need to have ten kilos of

1038
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: eggs and it's so stupid ten kilos of eggplant to

1039
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: have the same as one cigarette the nicotine in my

1040
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, this is just misleading bullshit. And

1041
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: it's like so technically he was not lying, but he

1042
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 1: was being mis leading, like wildly misleading. I think there's

1043
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: there's plenty of that goes on.

1044
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 2: I mean, you mentioned peptides before, and there's a lot

1045
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 2: of who are and if you if you actually google peptides,

1046
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 2: you'll you'll get what happens. Then you'll get in undated

1047
00:57:55,480 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 2: on your social feeds by companies trying to selltides to you.

1048
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: But an interesting thing.

1049
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 2: About peptides is that peptides are basically peptide is a

1050
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 2: bunch of amino acids joined together. Now, when you take

1051
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 2: a peptide, if you take a peptide in a capsule,

1052
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 2: it'll go into your stomach. The capsule will be broken

1053
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 2: down and your gastric juices that the acids and the

1054
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 2: actual enzymes in your stomach will digest that peptide and

1055
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 2: it's totally useless. The only way you can get benefit

1056
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 2: out of a peptide is by injecting it into yourself.

1057
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 2: So if you see an ad for a peptide that's

1058
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 2: in a capsule or a tablet, it's not going to

1059
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 2: work because unless you.

1060
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: Can say it's bullshit, it's okay, it's bullshit.

1061
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 2: So unless somebody has come up with some very clever

1062
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 2: technology that is able to take the peptide and get

1063
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 2: it through your digestive tract into a party of you're

1064
00:58:56,360 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 2: intestine where it will actually absorb a peptide of any length,

1065
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 2: and usually our digestive tract can't absorb a peptide that's

1066
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 2: any longer than about two or three amino acids joined together,

1067
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 2: and most of these peptides are significantly longer than that,

1068
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 2: then it's bullshit.

1069
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love it. I love it that you finally

1070
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: opened the swearing door and came stumbling through. I didn't

1071
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 1: right at the end. Yeah, right, all this time. Yeah,

1072
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: and let's not leave it five years and a million

1073
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: episodes next time. We appreciate you. Keith, get back in

1074
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 1: the gym for fuck's sake, Paul, thanks for sharing that

1075
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 1: large brain of yours. We appreciate you. Will say goodbye

1076
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 1: fair but in all seriousness thanks for being on the show.

1077
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: Boys really appreciate you. Thanks, Thanks creign with pleasure