Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven Am.
Speaker 1: Anthony Albanesi has been waiting decades to recognize a Palestinian state. Now,
Speaker 1: as countries like France, Canada and the UK all declare
Speaker 1: their own intentions to do so, the Prime Minister is
Speaker 1: weighing up how Australia will respond. It's a delicate balance
Speaker 1: with competing pressures from within his own party and an
Speaker 1: opposition denying there's a starvation crisis in Gaza Today. Press
Speaker 1: Gallery veteran Paul bon Jorno on the growing political momentum
Speaker 1: behind the case for statehood and the private phone calls
Speaker 1: shaping Albanese's plans. It's Friday, August one, Paul. The push
Speaker 1: for Palestinian statehood by Australian politicians goes way back. Can
Speaker 1: you take me back to the lateties, to the formation
Speaker 1: of the Parliamentary Friends of Palestine group? He was in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite fascinating to see the history of the
Speaker 2: Parliamentary Friends of Palestine, founded in the nineteen nineties, as
Speaker 2: you're saying, by a backbencher, young backbencher called Anthony Albernizi
Speaker 2: and a new junior minister in the Howard government called
Speaker 2: Joe Hockey. Now Hockey's very interesting. He is the son
Speaker 2: of Armenian refugees that fled Turkey and they fled to Palestine.
Speaker 2: So the two of them formed the Parliamentary Friends of Palestine,
Speaker 2: and a couple of years later, when Susan Lee joined
Speaker 2: the Parliament after defeating the Nats for her seat of Pharah,
Speaker 2: she too joined the Friends of Palestine. People don't know this,
Speaker 2: but she's the daughter of a British intelligence agent who
Speaker 2: has a child, spent time in the Middle East, and
Speaker 2: she had a working knowledge of Arabic as a child.
Speaker 2: Susan Lee in two thousand and three said, for those
Speaker 2: of us who look forward to an independent Palestinian state
Speaker 2: and wish to advance the cause of viable sovereign statehood,
Speaker 2: this group, that is the Parliamentary Group, gives us an
Speaker 2: opportunity to hold out the hand of friendship, understanding and trust.
Speaker 2: So that background is fascinating, and it also gives color
Speaker 2: to why a lot of people were scratching their heads
Speaker 2: at a news conference on Tuesday when she refused point
Speaker 2: blank about four or five times to say there was
Speaker 2: starvation in Gaza.
Speaker 3: Can I just move on?
Speaker 4: Now I've said, I'm very distressed by the images that
Speaker 4: I've seen.
Speaker 1: Do you believe that that's evidence and Stuffy?
Speaker 3: It's a complex situation on the ground. Like everyone, I'm
Speaker 3: very distressed by the images I've seen.
Speaker 1: So Albanez has wanted a two state solution for a
Speaker 1: long time, Paul, But how has his government balanced that
Speaker 1: since October seven with not wanting to reward her mass
Speaker 1: for a horrific terrorist attack.
Speaker 2: Well, what we've seen is the Albanesi government. He and
Speaker 2: Penny Wong. By the way, Penny Wong was a big
Speaker 2: mover getting the Labour Party at its national conference in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one to say that an incoming Labor government
Speaker 2: should move quickly to recognition of a state of Palestine.
Speaker 5: It reflects our belief that Israelis and Palestinians deserve to
Speaker 5: prosper in peace behind secure and recognize borders. It reflects
Speaker 5: our belief that a true friend of Israel is a
Speaker 5: true friend of the rights of Palestinians to statehood.
Speaker 2: That incoming government, of course, is the Albanesi government. Now
Speaker 2: with Wong as the Foreign Minister.
Speaker 6: We continue to call for a ceasefire, We continue to
Speaker 6: call for hostages to be released. We continue to say
Speaker 6: that har Mask can have no role in a future
Speaker 6: Palestinian state, and we continue to call for aid to
Speaker 6: be allowed to the people of Gaza. Every innocent life matters.
Speaker 2: We don't have a formal alliance with Israel, but we
Speaker 2: have been very close to Israel, and in fact the
Speaker 2: Australian government under the Australian Labor Party in nineteen forty
Speaker 2: eight rather played a key role in the United Nations
Speaker 2: in the founding of the state of Israel. So all
Speaker 2: of that would weigh heavily on an Australian Prime minister,
Speaker 2: even one like Albanizi, who is under if you like,
Speaker 2: riding orders and agrees with these riding orders to quickly
Speaker 2: advance the recognition of Palestinian statehood. Alberanizi says that whatever
Speaker 2: is done must be more than slogans.
Speaker 6: What we have from some of the campaign that has
Speaker 6: taken place is slogans, and what we are about is
Speaker 6: meaningful action.
Speaker 2: But what we saw this week, of course, was an
Speaker 2: uppying of the ante where on a Wednesday, Australian joined
Speaker 2: fourteen other nations calling for an immediate recognition of the
Speaker 2: state of Palestine. When the United Nations General Assembly gathers
Speaker 2: in September.
Speaker 6: We have signed a statement today, another statement with many nations.
Speaker 6: That statement, I think has a number of things in
Speaker 6: it that are important.
Speaker 2: It was noted, for example, by the fourteen Nations that
Speaker 2: the Palestinian authority calls for the liberation of hostages and
Speaker 2: importantly the disarmament of hamas, commits to terminate the prison
Speaker 2: payment system, commits to schooling reform. This goes to the
Speaker 2: Palestinians being willing not to teach their children that the
Speaker 2: fate of Israel should be for all the Jews to
Speaker 2: be driven into the sea. And commits to hold elections
Speaker 2: within twelve months.
Speaker 6: What we will continue to do is to put forward
Speaker 6: a principal position consistent with our unwavering commitment to the
Speaker 6: vision of the two State solution.
Speaker 2: Now, France, a leading G seven nation, led the charge
Speaker 2: with an unconditional statement that it would recognize Palestine in
Speaker 2: the UN in September.
Speaker 3: In relation to the two state solution and the recognition
Speaker 3: of Palestine, that this has been long starting Labor Party policy.
Speaker 3: It was in our manifesto we talked about the right
Speaker 3: of the Palestinians to recognition.
Speaker 2: And then the United Kingdom Kiirs Starmer came out and
Speaker 2: said that the UK two would join France in doing this,
Speaker 2: but put some conditions on the recognition. I was.
Speaker 6: In contact with Prime Minister Starmer overnight.
Speaker 2: Alban Is, in a news conference on Wednesday, revealed that
Speaker 2: he'd been talking to Starma about these things.
Speaker 6: What I've said is that it's not the timeline, it's
Speaker 6: not what we're looking at. What we're looking at is
Speaker 6: the circumstances where recognition will advance the objective of the
Speaker 6: creation of two states.
Speaker 1: So how's the push by France and others being received
Speaker 1: in the Middle East?
Speaker 2: Well, on Thursday there was further news that key surrounding
Speaker 2: Arab states also support these views and will recognize Israel
Speaker 2: as a legitimate state within the Middle East. So there's
Speaker 2: a lot of movement that in the past has blocked
Speaker 2: European nations friends of Israel from pushing for a Palestinian state.
Speaker 2: Now this is obviously going to put enormous pressure on Israel.
Speaker 2: The Trump administration in recent days has been critical of
Speaker 2: what's going on in Gaza, but the United States doesn't
Speaker 2: back calls for immediate recognition. Donald Trump on Force one
Speaker 2: as he returned from his golfing holiday in Scotland, he
Speaker 2: told journalists that this would reward Harmas. So you're rewarding
Speaker 2: Hamas if you do that, and I don't think they
Speaker 2: should be rewarded. So I'm not end that gap, to
Speaker 2: be honest. And of course that's the line that the
Speaker 2: Nitan Yahoo government.
Speaker 1: Takes after the break starvation in Gaza and the people
Speaker 1: saying it's not real if we go to the immediate
Speaker 1: humanitarian crisis in Gaza now, Paul, particularly the hunger crisis.
Speaker 1: Last weekend, Anthony Eberanezi called out Israel for breaking international
Speaker 1: law by withholding AID.
Speaker 6: Well, quite clearly, it is a breach of international law
Speaker 6: to stop food being delivered, which was the decision that
Speaker 6: Israel made in March.
Speaker 1: How were his his comments received in Israel well?
Speaker 2: Interestingly, the Prime Minister repeated that he warned the President
Speaker 2: of Israel, Herzog in May when they were both at
Speaker 2: Francis's funeral, that what Israel was doing and the way
Speaker 2: it was doing it, it was losing international support.
Speaker 6: People who are friends of Israel have to be able
Speaker 6: to say what you are doing is losing support, and
Speaker 6: that is what is happening.
Speaker 2: Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel, denied there was
Speaker 2: starvation in Gaza, and the Israeli Embassy in Canberra on
Speaker 2: Monday held a briefing for press gallery journalists where the
Speaker 2: Deputy ambassador repeated this view that there was no starvation,
Speaker 2: that it's based on misrepresentation and the falsification of images.
Speaker 2: And on top of the Prime Minister of Israel's comments,
Speaker 2: the Israeli Foreign Minister Gideon Sah in direct response to
Speaker 2: a question put to him in Jerusalem by an ABC
Speaker 2: Australian journalist, he said that Alberizi himself was lying.
Speaker 6: So the Prime Minister Albinizi said that Israel was quite
Speaker 6: quite clearly reaching international law by beholding aid from Sadiliens.
Speaker 1: So this is a lay.
Speaker 2: Alberanzi told his labor caucus in response to that that
Speaker 2: it was beyond comprehension. The other thing that's beyond comprehension, Daniel,
Speaker 2: is this quibbling over the images that we're seeing. There's
Speaker 2: quibbling led by the Murdoch media that that image of
Speaker 2: the emaciated child in its mother's arms that David Spears
Speaker 2: on Insiders showed the Prime Minister was somehow docted because
Speaker 2: it was later revealed that this child had a precondition.
Speaker 2: This sort of quibbling, well, it certainly disgusts me.
Speaker 4: Well, in the first instance, there are a lot of
Speaker 4: conflicting reports now coming out of Gaza.
Speaker 2: And we saw an amazing example of it coming from
Speaker 2: not only Mechaalia Cash, the shadow Foreign Minister.
Speaker 4: The moral obligation here lies directly at the foot of
Speaker 4: the terrorists. Hummus, they started this war.
Speaker 2: But her colleague Dan Tien went on ABC Radio and
Speaker 2: he said that Harmas was solely responsible for what's happening
Speaker 2: in Gaza.
Speaker 6: The problem all along has been an internationally listed terrorist
Speaker 6: organization HAMAS.
Speaker 2: Now, look, this is really the old argument of look
Speaker 2: what you made me do? I mean, it is simply
Speaker 2: incredible and one has to wonder why is the Australian
Speaker 2: federal opposition taking such a blinked response to what's going
Speaker 2: on in Gaza and a refusal, even as a friend
Speaker 2: of Israel, to say to it, as your friend, please
Speaker 2: stop it. I frankly myself can't see that there is
Speaker 2: any for example, electoral advantage for the position that they've taken.
Speaker 2: And the recent federal election shows that that the seats
Speaker 2: that had quite high Jewish voter population in them didn't
Speaker 2: all rush back to the Liberals as they thought they
Speaker 2: would for the stand that was taken.
Speaker 1: And now and easy. He's facing pressure from within his
Speaker 1: own party, both from people like Edi Husick but also
Speaker 1: from the Labour friends of Israel. And we heard that
Speaker 1: this week the PM met with the Executive Council of
Speaker 1: Australian Jury. Do we know what he said in that,
Speaker 1: meaning Paul, and how he's handling these competing positions.
Speaker 2: Well, look, there's been no official briefing of that meeting.
Speaker 2: The Executive Australian Jury are the most stridently outspoken supporters
Speaker 2: of Israel. Their statements and publications welcome the fact that
Speaker 2: Albanzi is upping Australia's relief effort for Gaza, but they
Speaker 2: do quibble with the Prime Minister over definitions of the
Speaker 2: legality of what Israel is doing in international law. We
Speaker 2: can only assume that Albanezi gave a hearing to these
Speaker 2: Australian Jewish leaders but also left them in no doubt
Speaker 2: as to what his position is.
Speaker 1: And finally, Paul, this issue has totally overshadowed Anthony Albanez's
Speaker 1: domestic agenda this week. But politically speaking, how do you
Speaker 1: think he's weathering this well.
Speaker 2: Look, polling before the federal election showed around sixty percent
Speaker 2: of Australian support what the Albanesi government's doing in response
Speaker 2: to the Middle East crisis. The election result would tend
Speaker 2: to confirm that, and we've seen opinion polls in general
Speaker 2: just on the way the government is traveling that showed
Speaker 2: that the government's a good twelve or thirteen points ahead
Speaker 2: of the opposition. So that would suggest that if people
Speaker 2: aren't all that happy with what the Albanese's doing about
Speaker 2: Israeli Palestine, it's not affecting their views of the government
Speaker 2: very much.
Speaker 1: Paul, thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 2: Thanks Daniel, great to talk to you.
Speaker 1: Also in the news, Independent Senator Lydia Thorpe put forward
Speaker 1: a motion in the Senate on Thursday paying tribute to
Speaker 1: the seventeen First Nations people who had died in custody
Speaker 1: this year and paying respect to their families. The motion
Speaker 1: comes after the latest Closing the Gap report reveals only
Speaker 1: four of the nineteen targets are on track to be
Speaker 1: met by twenty thirty one. We'll have an in depth
Speaker 1: look at the findings of the report next week, and
Speaker 1: the ABC is calling on Israel to allow international journalists
Speaker 1: into Gaza. ABC News director Justin Stevens has released a
Speaker 1: statement saying the public broadcaster has repeatedly tried to get
Speaker 1: reporters into Gaza since October seven, when Israel block international
Speaker 1: journalists from operating independently in the strip. Since then, reporting
Speaker 1: from Gaza has been largely conducted by freelance journalists. According
Speaker 1: to the Committee to Protect Journalist, at least one hundred
Speaker 1: and eighty six journalists and media workers, mostly Palestinian, have
Speaker 1: been killed in Gaza while doing their jobs. Seven Am
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Speaker 1: Just before we Go, this marks the last show with
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