WEBVTT - Inside the drug factories that funded the Assad regime 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:10.320 From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:13.800 It's like coming up for air after fifty years. That's 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.440 the way one man described this moment in Syria. Since 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:21.759 the fall of President Bashah Alasad, Syrians are celebrating. Some 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:25.600 have wandered through Assad's deserted palace, Thousands are in the streets. 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:28.840 Many more are searching the massive network of prisons that 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:33.000 under pinned Assad's repressive regime. They're looking for loved ones, 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.120 hoping they're still alive and if not, that they might 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.880 finally get closure. Today journalist to Heidi pet on the 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.879 ground in Damascus as the Syrian people reckon with what 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:45.600 the future holds for their country now that a sard 0:00:45.680 --> 0:01:03.320 is gone. It's Thursday, December nineteenth. Hattie, Hello, it's great 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:04.319 to have you back on the show. 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:05.400 It's nice to be back. 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:09.399 So you're in Damascus right now, and you've been there 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:12.960 since just after Bashah al Asad fled the country and 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:16.880 the regime fell. Tell me what it's like to be 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.320 in Syria at this moment of change. 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:24.520 The energy in Damascus is kind of incredible because it's 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:30.280 this real mix of elation, relief, but also a real 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:32.720 sense of grief and anger and all of that is 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:39.319 kind of mixed together in the streets. There've been a 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:43.520 number of large demonstrations and gatherings over the last week 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:50.880 that I've been here. It's only just sinking in for 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:54.280 many people here that you know, more than fifty years 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:58.480 of the outside regime is over, and that they can 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:05.400 finally speak about what happened. You know, for so many 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:09.480 people talking about their father that was in prison, or 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.120 what happened to them in prison, or you know, the 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.080 bombing of their neighborhoods by their own government. Breathing a 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.120 whisper of that would have got them detained and probably killed. 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:22.880 And so it's incredible to be somewhere where people are 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:27.120 just so desperate and happy and relieved to be able 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:29.600 to talk freely for the first time in decades. 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:34.680 Yeah, we're learning a lot of things that had been hidden, 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:39.120 particularly about the prison system. There were rumors for a 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.480 long time about the prisons being used by the regime, 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.040 about torture and terror, but we didn't know the extent 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.680 of what was actually happening until now. So tell me 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:50.720 what's coming to light. What are we learning. 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.799 So one of the first places that people went when 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:59.440 the regime fell was this prison outside of Damascus called Sednaya. 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.080 There is a huge network of prisons across the country. 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:07.679 They're in the basements of laundromats, there in every single courtroom, 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:12.320 police station, underneath the radio and television building. The extent 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.800 and the scale of the security state here is becoming clear, 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:20.400 but said Naya is one of the largest and most 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:33.200 infamous of Assad's prisons. When the HDS fighters swept through 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.480 and they unlocked the doors of prisons all around the country, 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:42.440 this rumor spread that there were secret underground cells. You know. 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:47.400 There were these incredible scenes of people showing up, jack hammering, 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:53.320 digging up the floors, and there was this real sense 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.560 of this last expression of hope for families that people 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.080 that they might not have seen in ten years may 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:01.200 still somehow be alive. 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:09.960 Okay, she was there. She don't have anybody to ask 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:14.320 him until now, only she sears on the paper if 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:17.200 she find anything for him. 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:21.039 So on Wednesday, when I arrived here in Syria, Said 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:22.680 Noah was one of the first places I went, and 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:26.920 families were still showing up. There were people camped outside, 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.279 you know, sleeping in the in the prison grounds. 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:33.880 She hoped for maybe here, maybe a place she hoped 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.760 she's not one hundred percent is here or where he is. 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:42.080 And over the course of about a day it became 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:47.320 clear that there were no underground cells. And a Syrian 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.720 human rights activist who has done a great deal of 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:55.159 work on this, gave this incredibly tearful, actually interview on 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.839 television where he said he was like, I hate to 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.600 break it to the family, but the more than one 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:05.800 hundred thousand missing, they're not here. They're probably dead and. 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:16.560 And are. 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:19.919 But that hadn't stopped people from showing up, clutching onto 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.559 the last straws of hope that someone's father, their brother, 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.440 their you know, their mother, their son, that there might 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:30.920 be some scrap of information basically about what happened to them. 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.600 And I mean, some people obviously would be able to 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:38.400 get that information about their family members and maybe, you know, 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.800 in the best possible scenarios, be reunited. But what about 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.560 those who actually don't find anything in the prisons and 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:49.799 will never have a body to bury. What does closure 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:50.560 look like for them? 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:52.800 So for many of the families, first they went to 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.840 the prisons and they hoped that they would find their 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.920 family members alive, and then news broke that a number 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.800 of bodies from the prisons, mostly from Said Naya, had 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:08.400 been brought to the main hospital in Damascus. The families 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:10.760 who had been to the prisons and not found their 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:14.560 loved ones alive there then came to the hospital, hoping 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:18.479 at least that they could identify them among the dead 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:21.080 and that that would be some form of closure, that 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:23.120 at least they would have a body to bury. But 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.960 there are one hundred thousand missing in Syria and this 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.200 main hospital in Damascus they had thirty five bodies. How 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:34.960 many families have come through here hoping to identify their 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:36.040 loved one who's missing. 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:40.320 No kids, I'm not a. 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:47.440 Thousands. 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:50.400 One of the bodies that had been brought to this 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.640 hospital was of a very famous Syrian activist. His name 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.400 was Mazan al Hamada, and he was one of the 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:01.159 first to speak out about what in Said Naya, the 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:04.880 torture that he experienced, the torture that he saw and witnessed. 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:09.000 He returned to Syria in twenty twenty and he immediately 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:14.720 disappeared back into the detention apparatus until his body was 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.520 found at the military hospital, and so there was a 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:24.040 funeral for him on Thursday, which became incredibly symbolic. It 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.640 became a funeral for all the missing, all the people 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.120 whose families don't have a body to bury and maybe 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:37.800 never will. You know, As his coffin was carried through 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:41.440 the streets of Damascus, there was a huge crowd chanting 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:46.360 his name and carrying photographs of him. But not just him, 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.640 they were carrying photographs of other missing public figures, so 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.960 other activists and writers, but also their own family members, 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:57.200 And it became a real moment of collective grief and mourning, 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:04.160 but also genuinely real happiness and relief. This security apparatus 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.240 and this repression of the Syrian people goes back to 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:08.960 you know, well before Bashar Alisad. It goes back to 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:13.760 his father Hafez in more than five decades. And so 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.000 the sense that people have is one person explained it 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.400 to me, is it's like we've been living underground and 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:22.160 we have finally come up for air. 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:29.280 After the break the drug operations that funded the Assad regime. 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.880 So hai to, you're in Damascus right now and it's 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:44.400 been less than two weeks since Bashah Alasad fled and 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:46.959 now the rebel's over through his government they're picking through 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:51.440 the remains of the regime. We know that the terrors 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.079 of the prison system are being revealed, but what else 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.520 are we learning about Syria under Bashah Alasad. 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:01.440 So in recent years, Syria has actually been described as 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:05.080 a narco state, which you would ordinarily think of as 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.920 places in South and Central America that have relied on, 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.760 you know, the cocaine and now increasingly the fentanyl trade. 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:16.600 But Syria actually was an enormous producer and exporter of 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:21.040 a drug called captigon. It's an amphetamine. It's very popular 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:24.320 across the Middle East. It's sometimes used by fighters to 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.160 sort of keep them awake and focused in battle, but 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.000 it's also used as a party drug. So I went 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.920 to a factory where this drug was being produced just 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.240 outside Damascus, just in the you know, in the hills 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:39.720 outside Duma. It used to be a potato chip factory. 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.240 It's called Captain Corn and there's this jingle, you know, 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:46.040 all the kids know this jingle for Captain Corn. And 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.520 it was turned into a drug production facility. And so 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:52.760 when when I got there, this smell was just incredible 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.600 because the regime had had set fire to the factory 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:00.280 just before they left. But what was particularly interesting is 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:05.920 the evidence of how they were transported and secretly exported 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:09.679 around the Middle East. So in this particular factory, one 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:14.000 of the main ways was the pills had been disguised 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:20.120 inside parts for generators. There were also fake fruits filled 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.439 with pills as well. You know, these pills inside Syria 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.400 they're very cheap, but in places like Jordan and Saudi 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.960 Arabia they go for twenty five US dollars a pill. 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.680 And you know, just in this one factory that we 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:35.080 saw it would be making millions for the regime. 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.719 Right, So, Hadi, what's going to happen to all of 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:42.079 these factories, to this entire kind of clandestine operation that 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:46.520 the regime ran now and all of the drugs that 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:47.679 have been left behind. 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:49.960 Well at the moment, and this is the huge challenge 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.760 for Syria, and you know for the new government of Syria, 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.200 is that the advanced by HTS and the other associated 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:02.080 rebel groups happened so quickly. You know, soldiers from the 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:05.280 regime just melted away. I mean on the drive in 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:09.640 from Beirut to Damascus, there was no border control. You know, 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.719 I have no Syrian stamp in my passport because there 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.120 was nobody at the border and by the side of 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.480 the road there is just discarded army uniforms where people 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:22.079 soldiers had clearly taken them off, changed into civilian clothes 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:27.000 and fled. So what's happened is that either local fighters 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.560 from groups like Josha Islam or other rebel groups, or 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.120 fighters from HTS are now taking up you know, these 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:38.920 kind of physicians and beginning to guard these facilities and 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:40.920 make some attempt to secure them. 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.080 Yeah, and it sounds like HTS itself was taken by 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:47.560 surprise at how quick their success was. So what have 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.360 they been doing for the last sort of week or so? 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:52.040 How are they preparing to govern? 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:56.200 One of the first big challenges actually will be the 0:11:56.240 --> 0:12:00.640 economy here. Syria has been under sanctions for an incredibly 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:02.920 long time in an attempt to, you know, to put 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:06.600 pressure on the regime. It's now being governed by HTS, 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:10.640 who there's still a prescribed terrorist organization, you know, the UK, 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.280 the EU, and the US all still designate it as 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.480 a terrorist organization. What's interesting is that the UK and 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:19.600 the US have publicly said in the last few days 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.080 that they have had meetings with HDS, which you would 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.719 ordinarily not with a terrorist organization. You know that they 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:28.840 have also said it's too early to start talking about 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:33.640 lifting sanctions. There's been a very concerted effort by HDS 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:38.240 and particularly by its leader Jilani to reassure the international 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:43.480 community that yes, HDS had its roots in al Qaeda, 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:45.679 but they split from them a very long time ago, 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.400 that they intend to form a sort of civil government. 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.600 But it's not just the international community that is waiting 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:55.199 to see what will happen here. There is a sense 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:59.160 of trepidation, you know, from some minorities, from Alohites, from Christians, 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:02.120 waiting to see whether these assurances that they've received from 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.480 HTS will be born out. But time will tell over 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:09.520 the next couple of months really about exactly how they govern. 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.840 It sounds like a country kind of holding its breath, 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:16.280 waiting to see if this change will bring stability and 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.680 a chance to put the trauma of the Assad regime 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:20.360 behind it. 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:22.400 Yeah, And I mean, you know, that's one of the 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:24.320 things that one of the people that I met at 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:28.240 Musen's funeral, Muhmood, is you know, one of these old 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.679 political activists and writers who you know, they've been around 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:35.400 the block, they've experienced the false promise of Bashah the Sun. 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:37.440 You know, when he first came to power, he said 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.160 that he was going to make changes, he was going 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:40.960 to open things up. That turned out to be a lie. 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.439 He turned out to be more brutal than his father. 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.480 Mahmood said to me, well, you know, we're incredibly happy 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.400 right now, and we deserve as well time to be happy. 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:56.920 There is this pushback, in fact, by some Serians, of 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.280 this kind of finger wagging by the international community of like, oh, 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.600 this may not actually be the good news story we 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:04.160 think it is. And we have to remember that, you know, 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.160 these rebels, their roots and al Qaeda and everything. And 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:07.960 there is a bit of a sense from some Syrians 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.120 of like, can we just have five minutes to celebrate 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:15.720 the fact that a five decade regime that imprisoned, you know, 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:20.320 tortured forcibly, disappeared, murdered and buried in mass graves our 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.280 friends and family members. Can we just have five minutes please, 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:29.280 to celebrate the fact that that has ended. But Mahmoud, 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:31.840 he was very keen to impress upon me that the 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.240 thing you have to understand is that we are only 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.840 half the way there, and the next twelve months will 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:39.360 be critical. 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:43.680 Hattie, thank you so much for your time. 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:45.000 Thanks for having me. 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.880 Also in the news today, Treasurer Jim Chalmers has unveiled 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.880 his mid year budget update, showing Australia as expected to 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.000 slip deeper into deficit over the next four years due 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.760 to growing spending and falling tax The expected deficit for 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.240 the current financial year twenty twenty four to twenty five 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.200 is twenty six point nine billion, which is set to 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.080 widen to thirty one point seven billion by the financial 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:24.920 year twenty twenty seven twenty eight and New York prosecutors 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.360 say Luigi Mangioni, the man accused of shooting United Health 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:32.920 Group CEO Brian Thompson, has been charged with murder. Mangioni 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.160 was indicted on eleven counts, including first degree murder and 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.800 murder as a crime of terrorism. The indictment accusing Mangioni 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.800 of murdering Thompson with the intent to influence the policy 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:47.040 of a unit of government by intimidation or coercion. Mangioni 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.000 is being held on gun charges in Pennsylvania, where he 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:54.280 was arrested last week. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. 0:15:54.320 --> 0:16:05.360 Thanks for listening.