WEBVTT - Why aren’t we culling great white sharks? 

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<v Speaker 1>From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Tuesday, June twenty three, twenty twenty six. The Albanese

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<v Speaker 1>government put off the appointment of Antisemitism Envoy Gillian Siegel

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<v Speaker 1>so an Islamic counterpart could be found. That's the claim

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<v Speaker 1>made by one of Australia's most senior Jewish leaders in

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<v Speaker 1>a submission to the Royal Commission into Antisemitism and Social Cohesion.

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<v Speaker 1>A top intelligence experts work on the Bondai Beach massacre

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<v Speaker 1>has effectively been dumped by Royal Commissioner Virginia Bell. Dennis Richardson,

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<v Speaker 1>handpicked by Anthony Albanesi, interviewed security and police bosses, but

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<v Speaker 1>the Royal Commission redid the interviews. Labour's playing musical prime

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<v Speaker 1>ministers again, this time in the United Kingdom, where Kirstamer's

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<v Speaker 1>time is up.

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<v Speaker 2>The question my party is asking is whether I am

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<v Speaker 2>best placed to lead us into the next general election.

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<v Speaker 2>I have heard the answer of my Parliamentary party to

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<v Speaker 2>that question, and I accept that answer with good grace.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a big story rolling live at the Australian dot

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<v Speaker 1>com au, along with all our exclusive news and analysis,

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<v Speaker 1>great white sharks are critically endangered? Are they really? As

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<v Speaker 1>a thirty five year old mother fights for her life

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<v Speaker 1>in a Sydney intensive care unit, beach goers around Australia

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<v Speaker 1>are adjusting to a new reality, fatal shark attacks and

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<v Speaker 1>now frequent occurrences as shark populations boom and governments hesitate

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<v Speaker 1>to act. In New South Wales, a horror summer is

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<v Speaker 1>being followed by a shocking winter attack. So how do

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<v Speaker 1>we stay safe in the water? That's today's story.

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<v Speaker 3>Thousands of swimmers today took to the water in Sydney's

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<v Speaker 3>Couldjie Beach and a show of support a week after

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<v Speaker 3>Mama Lias Stewart was mouled than a shocking shark attack.

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<v Speaker 3>The thirty five year old was pulled from the water

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<v Speaker 3>by a brave iron man competitor who paddled towards the

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<v Speaker 3>thrashing great white.

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<v Speaker 4>LEAs Stewart suffered critical injuries, her family saying her recovery

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<v Speaker 4>will be long and difficult, came and teme.

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<v Speaker 1>LOOKLYM Leeming is The Australian's New South Wales political correspondent,

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<v Speaker 1>and like every other political reporter in New South Wales,

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<v Speaker 1>he's had to pivot to becoming a shark expert. Lookie,

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<v Speaker 1>where were you when you heard about the shark attack

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<v Speaker 1>on LEAs Stewart at Culdjie Beach.

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<v Speaker 3>I was at home, but I had mates down near

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<v Speaker 3>the beach and almost straight away I messaged them and said,

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<v Speaker 3>were you swimming? Because this is such a out of

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<v Speaker 3>the ordinary attack, even according to the experts that I

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<v Speaker 3>think all of Sydney was really shocked by it.

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<v Speaker 1>It was really shocking. Of course, Sidney's tourism relies on

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<v Speaker 1>our beaches being swimmable, and there's an ongoing debate in

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<v Speaker 1>Sydney and in the other coastal city is about when

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<v Speaker 1>nets are positioned, when we use drones and so on.

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<v Speaker 1>That's been something that the Min's government has been grappling with.

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<v Speaker 1>How has Chris Mins and his government responded to this

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<v Speaker 1>near fatal attack.

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<v Speaker 3>The situation with nets in New South Wales is that

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<v Speaker 3>generally they're removed, they're state government administered and they're removed

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<v Speaker 3>over the winter to avoid colliding with migrating whales. So

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<v Speaker 3>we've seen calls for a cult, particularly led by a

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<v Speaker 3>former Prime Minister, Tony Abbott. Chris Mins has sort of

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<v Speaker 3>shied away from a color of great white sharks, citing

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<v Speaker 3>their protected status. But he's left it open for a

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<v Speaker 3>color of bull sharks which don't have the same protections.

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<v Speaker 3>But the big thing Chris Mins, and he's actually been

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<v Speaker 3>supported by the opposition leader, Kelly Sloane. Here in New

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<v Speaker 3>South Wales. The big thing they're calling for is becoming

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<v Speaker 3>a world leader in using drones, potentially with artificial intelligence

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<v Speaker 3>capability to spot these sharks. So I think we could

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<v Speaker 3>potentially as soon as this budget see renewed investment in

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<v Speaker 3>the use of drones to patrol the beaches around here.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like everything in state politics affected by every other

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<v Speaker 1>layer of government. Right, drones are already in use at

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of Sydney beaches, but not at Kujie until

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<v Speaker 1>the weekend. Why not?

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<v Speaker 3>This is one of the strange things about our bureaucracy.

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<v Speaker 3>As it stands, the Aviation Watchdog hasn't allowed drones to

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<v Speaker 3>be used at kuji because of its proximity to flight

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<v Speaker 3>paths for planes coming into Sydney Airport. Now, interestingly, after

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<v Speaker 3>this that was overturned within I think forty eight hours.

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<v Speaker 4>So if life savers were granted special permission to launch drones,

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<v Speaker 4>today due to airspace restrictions caused by nearby flight paths,

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<v Speaker 4>swimmers here and at Bondai rarely benefit from these eyes

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<v Speaker 4>in the sky.

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<v Speaker 3>So whether that's permanent, I understand they're exploring at the moment,

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<v Speaker 3>but it just goes to show you that sometimes bureaucracy

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<v Speaker 3>can slow down I guess common sense measures, and that

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<v Speaker 3>has never been more clear than after this shocking attack

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<v Speaker 3>on a Saturday morning.

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<v Speaker 1>Drones already do fly at a lot of New South

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<v Speaker 1>Wales beaches. Helicopters are flying over these beaches all the time,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're all in pretty close proximity. Of course, there

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<v Speaker 1>is a flight path over Kuji Beach and over several

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<v Speaker 1>other beaches, but any kind of low flying craft like

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<v Speaker 1>a drone is not going to be anywhere near a

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<v Speaker 1>commercial jetliner. It seems ridiculous to me that this band

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<v Speaker 1>was in place and that nobody kicked it upstairs. What

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<v Speaker 1>do you think about that?

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<v Speaker 3>Definitely? I think beach goers' first responders, including elements of

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<v Speaker 3>surf life saving New South Wales. We've seen how quickly

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<v Speaker 3>that this has been overturned, which goes to show that

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<v Speaker 3>it shouldn't have taken such a horrible incident for this

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<v Speaker 3>to be kicked upstairs, as you said, we've got to

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<v Speaker 3>be probably more proactive and less reactive following this spate

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<v Speaker 3>of shark with an incredible spade of shark attacks over

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<v Speaker 3>the summer in and around Sydney Waters, why wasn't this

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<v Speaker 3>raised then.

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<v Speaker 5>An outpouring of grief for a twelve year old boy

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<v Speaker 5>with his whole life ahead of him. Nico Antik taken

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<v Speaker 5>too soon, succumbing to his wounds today from a shark

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<v Speaker 5>attack at ball Clues almost a week ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Before those summer attacks, which included mercury solakis at Long

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<v Speaker 1>Reef Beach on the northern Beaches of Sydney, several Sydney

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<v Speaker 1>councils were going to remove the nets all together, that

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<v Speaker 1>they were going to experiment with what someone would be

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<v Speaker 1>like without beach knitting, and that I think was driven

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<v Speaker 1>by people who are concerned about other species getting caught

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<v Speaker 1>in the nets. The Government very quickly retreated on that

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<v Speaker 1>once Mercury solarcis died. It felt to me like they

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<v Speaker 1>were caught on the hop at the time. What was

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<v Speaker 1>your sense from inside Parliament when that was going on.

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<v Speaker 3>I think again this is a case of being reactive

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<v Speaker 3>in face of being proactive, and we shouldn't be at

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<v Speaker 3>a stage in June, halfway through the year following this

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<v Speaker 3>spade of attacks where we're still being reactive. I've spoken

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<v Speaker 3>to the Federal Shadow Environment Minister Andrew Bragg and he

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<v Speaker 3>says he's going to write to the CSIRO now asking

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<v Speaker 3>them to bring forward some great white shark research. It's

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<v Speaker 3>been eight years since the CSIRO, which is our biggest

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<v Speaker 3>chief science body in the country, has completed research on

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<v Speaker 3>these shark numbers. So if we're relying on data that's

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<v Speaker 3>eight years old and we're seeing this spade of shark attacks,

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<v Speaker 3>it's obvious that we need new figures if we're going

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<v Speaker 3>to update policy accordingly.

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<v Speaker 1>As you said, great white sharks are a protected species.

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<v Speaker 1>That was a decision made by the Commonwealth, which must

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<v Speaker 1>feel nice being in the act where there's no great

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<v Speaker 1>whites in late Burley Griffin to take a nivel at you.

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<v Speaker 1>Why did they make the decision to protect great whites?

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<v Speaker 3>Research and suggests that the population was at risk. Great

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<v Speaker 3>white sharks have a long and again I'm no expert,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's long time until they reach maturity and breeding age.

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<v Speaker 3>They also reproduced slowly and talking to experts even recently,

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<v Speaker 3>they've been protecting now for nearly thirty years, there's a

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<v Speaker 3>consensus across the board that their numbers haven't recovered to

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<v Speaker 3>a point where we can reconsider that listing, at least

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<v Speaker 3>from the experts I've spoken to.

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<v Speaker 1>That's really interesting, isn't it. But we now have a

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<v Speaker 1>generation of white sharks who are mature, who've never been hunted,

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<v Speaker 1>who have obviously not been fished, and who are huge.

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<v Speaker 1>And this particular animal which attacked a leash stewart at

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<v Speaker 1>Cujiebeach wasn't tagged, it hadn't been interacted with fisheries at all.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's alarming to think that there's a number of

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<v Speaker 1>white sharks out there that we don't know anything about.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right, and I think that to Andrew Bragg's point,

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<v Speaker 3>we need up to date data, We need more research,

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<v Speaker 3>We need to use new forms of research and information

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<v Speaker 3>gathering to get a better picture of how many of

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<v Speaker 3>these sharks are in the country. Because experts do agree

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<v Speaker 3>that shark bites, the prevalence of them has risen in

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<v Speaker 3>Australia and across the world. The reasons for that are

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<v Speaker 3>varied big one experts. Point two is there's more people

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<v Speaker 3>and there's more people in the water. But until we

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<v Speaker 3>get a better picture of shark numbers in our country,

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<v Speaker 3>it's difficult to see preventative measures that we can take.

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<v Speaker 1>The experts who talk after a shark encounter, as many

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<v Speaker 1>of them would describe it, feel to me like that

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<v Speaker 1>kind often blamed the victim. You shouldn't have been swimming

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<v Speaker 1>in murky water, you shouldn't have been swimming after heavy rain.

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<v Speaker 1>You shouldn't swim near an estuary mouth. That's what we

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<v Speaker 1>heard in January when there were bull shark attacks in

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<v Speaker 1>the harbor.

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<v Speaker 4>There were four attacks in forty eight hours in January,

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<v Speaker 4>and the opposition says a coal should be considered.

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<v Speaker 1>Leah Stewart seemed to be doing everything right, didn't she.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a beautiful clear day, a quldji. She was

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<v Speaker 1>swimming between the flags. She had an expectation. I suppose

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<v Speaker 1>that beach was safe. How do we balance the rights

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<v Speaker 1>of swimmers and of human beings with the concern for

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<v Speaker 1>these creatures that live in the ocean.

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<v Speaker 3>We had a new South Wales government expert after the attack.

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<v Speaker 3>As you said, she was doing everything right. It was

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<v Speaker 3>the middle of the day, she was in between the

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<v Speaker 3>flags and by all accounts this was thirty meters off

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<v Speaker 3>the beach. So I think that's why this has been

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<v Speaker 3>so shocking and really reignited this debate how do we

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<v Speaker 3>manage humans and sharks living in proximity to one another.

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<v Speaker 3>We're seeing now one of the options Chris Mins has

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<v Speaker 3>left on the table is a cull but of bull sharks,

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<v Speaker 3>so bull sharks aren't protected species. And actually, after those

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<v Speaker 3>spade of attacks, which included a fatal attack on a

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<v Speaker 3>twelve year old boy in Sydney Harbor over the summer months,

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<v Speaker 3>the New South Wales Department of Primary Industries is counting

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<v Speaker 3>bull sharks within Sydney Harbor and Chris Mins has left

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<v Speaker 3>open the possibility of a cul of those sharks, So

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<v Speaker 3>that's one way that they're looking at dealing with this

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<v Speaker 3>spade of attacks and also the proximity of sharks and humans.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so we've had a child killed, We've had a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of surfers, we've now had a thirty five year

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<v Speaker 1>old mother of a young child whose toddler was on

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<v Speaker 1>the sand being looked after while she had a swim.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't really get much worse than that. I feel

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<v Speaker 1>though there is another level that the New Southwold's government

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<v Speaker 1>could get to. I mean, it could lobby the federal

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<v Speaker 1>government to bring back in the licensed fishing of great

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<v Speaker 1>whites or a cold couldn't they Why don't they want

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<v Speaker 1>to do that?

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's hard to find academics and experts who

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<v Speaker 3>agree that is the way to go, and without that

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<v Speaker 3>scientific backing, I think the government is nervous to do

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<v Speaker 3>what would appear to be a politically popular especially in

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<v Speaker 3>some corners.

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<v Speaker 1>Move but you're never going to get a shark. Expect

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<v Speaker 1>to agree to that because they're all marine biologists who

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<v Speaker 1>love sharks. But of course they're motivated.

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<v Speaker 3>To care exactly right, they're probably.

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<v Speaker 6>The wrong people to be asking the one't yeah, yeah

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<v Speaker 6>exactly So they keep pointing to the evidence that you

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<v Speaker 6>can cull sharks in one spot, but especially these big

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<v Speaker 6>great white so they migrate from country to country, from

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<v Speaker 6>coast to coast.

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<v Speaker 3>At this point in time, as I said, Chris Mins

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<v Speaker 3>appears exceedingly reluctant to go that option. Instead wants to

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<v Speaker 3>become a world leader and using drones to spot sharks.

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<v Speaker 3>It appears he's got the support from his opposition leader,

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<v Speaker 3>so while there's not that political friction there forcing the hand,

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<v Speaker 3>it probably won't happen.

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<v Speaker 1>He's New South Wales's Agriculture Minister, Tara Moriati. Embracing new

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<v Speaker 1>technology is the priority, so more drones in the sky,

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<v Speaker 1>but nothing is off the table. I think Australians have

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<v Speaker 1>come to regard shark attacks as a fear that can

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<v Speaker 1>be overcome, that if you just don't concentrate on it,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't let those cellos from jewels play in your

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<v Speaker 1>mind too much. When you're out there swimming, you think

0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:40.280
<v Speaker 1>about the fact that you're more likely to get run

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<v Speaker 1>over by a car than you are to get eaten

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<v Speaker 1>by a shark. That you can kind of wish this

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<v Speaker 1>fear away. But it does feel like things have changed. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you feel the fear and do you think things

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<v Speaker 1>have changed.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, Claire, I grew up in central West New South Wales,

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<v Speaker 3>so I'm ambivalent towards the beach in the ocean. I

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<v Speaker 3>could happily just stick to the rivers for the rest

0:12:57.600 --> 0:12:59.200
<v Speaker 3>of my life. But if this is an issue that

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<v Speaker 3>won't go away for Chris Means because the population is

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<v Speaker 3>all on the coast, so he needs to work out

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<v Speaker 3>and quite quickly what he's going to do, whether it's drones,

0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.760
<v Speaker 3>whether it is putting those nets in place on beaches

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<v Speaker 3>at least for this upcoming summer. And I think if

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<v Speaker 3>there's any more attacks anywhere similar to this horrifying one

0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:18.679
<v Speaker 3>we have at Kulji, it's going to be a no

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<v Speaker 3>brainer for him.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Lockie, I might be swimming in the Darling River

0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.480
<v Speaker 1>with you this summer if things don't improve. Thanks very much,

0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:33.360
<v Speaker 1>Thanks Claire. It's Budget Day in New South Wales today

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<v Speaker 1>and Lachlan Lemming is our New South Wales political correspondent

0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:39.880
<v Speaker 1>leading our coverage. You can check it out right now

0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.160
<v Speaker 1>at the Australian dot com dot au