1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Appoche Production. 2 00:00:14,961 --> 00:00:17,641 Speaker 2: Welcome back to our little Lady. In this episode, we're 3 00:00:17,681 --> 00:00:19,361 Speaker 2: going to take you back to some of the information 4 00:00:19,441 --> 00:00:22,881 Speaker 2: we shared in the first series of the podcast. You 5 00:00:22,961 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: might remember that we raised allegations of grooming behavior amongst 6 00:00:26,641 --> 00:00:31,081 Speaker 2: some high ranking officials in Saint Helen's. We've never been 7 00:00:31,121 --> 00:00:34,241 Speaker 2: able to name these people, as they are allegations. Only 8 00:00:35,001 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 2: we heard of the police officer Paul Reynolds, who we 9 00:00:37,361 --> 00:00:40,681 Speaker 2: now know was a pedophile. In this episode, you'll hear 10 00:00:40,721 --> 00:00:44,241 Speaker 2: from a woman that knew him closely. She would see 11 00:00:44,321 --> 00:00:46,721 Speaker 2: him at the police academy when he would turn up 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:51,241 Speaker 2: to meet and, in her words, ogul new recruits. We 13 00:00:51,281 --> 00:00:55,041 Speaker 2: will also hear allegations of another officer who, as we've 14 00:00:55,081 --> 00:00:58,921 Speaker 2: stated before, offered to let people off traffic infringements if 15 00:00:59,321 --> 00:01:03,001 Speaker 2: they performed sexual favors. This first person we're going to 16 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:05,681 Speaker 2: speak to wants to be known as Larry. He has 17 00:01:05,721 --> 00:01:08,841 Speaker 2: his own reasons for trying to bring pedophiles to justice 18 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,801 Speaker 2: and how that might affect the Eden Westbrook case. 19 00:01:14,801 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: So I'm a victim survivor myself. I didn't come to 20 00:01:17,761 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: grips with that until I was in my sixties, and 21 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,881 Speaker 1: I can't have done a really good job of that. 22 00:01:24,601 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: But what it has done is spurred on my advocacy 23 00:01:27,681 --> 00:01:31,681 Speaker 1: around the need for prevention of Chile sexual abuse in communities. 24 00:01:32,521 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: I dealt support of the Mission inquiry and I chose 25 00:01:37,881 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: to become the Loud Offense Tasmania coordinator. So for those 26 00:01:42,881 --> 00:01:47,921 Speaker 1: that are unaware, Loud Offences that international grassroots movement that 27 00:01:48,121 --> 00:01:53,281 Speaker 1: seeks to raise awareness of child sexual abuse by establishing 28 00:01:53,361 --> 00:01:58,001 Speaker 1: ribbon fences. So we hope to encourage people to break 29 00:01:58,041 --> 00:02:01,201 Speaker 1: the cad of silence that currently prevails and reduce the 30 00:02:01,281 --> 00:02:06,001 Speaker 1: stigma that people that often feel and hopefully courage those 31 00:02:06,041 --> 00:02:09,921 Speaker 1: people in position of authority to work better at preventing 32 00:02:10,241 --> 00:02:11,241 Speaker 1: child sexual abuse. 33 00:02:11,881 --> 00:02:15,001 Speaker 2: Now, Larry, I'm taking it you live in Tasmania. Now 34 00:02:15,641 --> 00:02:18,761 Speaker 2: that's correct. Are you familiar with the Saint Helen's area. 35 00:02:19,641 --> 00:02:22,641 Speaker 1: Yes. In previous work I had a lot of dealing 36 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: in fact, all across tasmaning. 37 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,601 Speaker 2: Why now, why are you interested in what's been happening 38 00:02:29,641 --> 00:02:31,961 Speaker 2: down in Tasmania. Has anyone reached out to you? 39 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:38,201 Speaker 1: Yes? And this was unexpected. When tying ribbons, I become 40 00:02:38,601 --> 00:02:42,481 Speaker 1: a lightning rod for disclosures and often people would tell 41 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,121 Speaker 1: me about things that have happened to them, and others 42 00:02:45,161 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: would also talk about things that were troubling to them 43 00:02:48,441 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: in their communities. And in this particular case, our previous 44 00:02:53,481 --> 00:02:58,681 Speaker 1: resident of the community leader from Saint Helen's told me that 45 00:02:58,721 --> 00:03:02,681 Speaker 1: she'd been approached by young women in Saint Helen's asking 46 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,881 Speaker 1: her to intervene on their behalf to try and stop 47 00:03:07,321 --> 00:03:15,041 Speaker 1: an officer un known colloquially into helens As from sexually 48 00:03:16,041 --> 00:03:17,361 Speaker 1: assaulting them. 49 00:03:18,121 --> 00:03:22,081 Speaker 2: We've heard this in the podcast previously, where there are 50 00:03:22,121 --> 00:03:26,921 Speaker 2: allegations that a police officer who lives and has worked 51 00:03:26,921 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: in Saint Helen's had been asking for sexual favors in 52 00:03:33,161 --> 00:03:36,801 Speaker 2: return for turning a blind eye to what might be 53 00:03:36,881 --> 00:03:37,881 Speaker 2: police issues. 54 00:03:38,601 --> 00:03:42,081 Speaker 1: Yes, so I was told traffic infringements was a classic thing. 55 00:03:42,641 --> 00:03:45,601 Speaker 1: So these young women would be pulled over for I 56 00:03:45,641 --> 00:03:49,121 Speaker 1: suppose a t infringement and they would be told that 57 00:03:49,201 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: that wouldn't happen if they provide sexual favors to officer. 58 00:03:55,841 --> 00:03:58,761 Speaker 2: And how many people have you spoken to in Sint 59 00:03:58,841 --> 00:04:03,761 Speaker 2: Helen's that have talked about this allegation As. 60 00:04:03,601 --> 00:04:06,241 Speaker 1: Of last week, the tally is now four. 61 00:04:07,801 --> 00:04:10,481 Speaker 2: We've beat out the officer's name that these allegations have 62 00:04:10,561 --> 00:04:14,081 Speaker 2: been made against. It's not new information to us, because 63 00:04:14,121 --> 00:04:16,521 Speaker 2: we've heard it before from a woman who was asked 64 00:04:16,561 --> 00:04:18,961 Speaker 2: by this officer for the same thing. 65 00:04:19,881 --> 00:04:25,681 Speaker 3: In twenty fifteen. I was seventeen. The police officer and 66 00:04:25,921 --> 00:04:30,041 Speaker 3: the clock car was right to frid me, so I 67 00:04:30,081 --> 00:04:37,001 Speaker 3: took my headphone bush and then it was and he 68 00:04:37,121 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 3: asked me if I wanted to write home. He then 69 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,041 Speaker 3: requested that I had to pay him do a sexual 70 00:04:46,121 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 3: favor or a cliche rush. 71 00:04:50,681 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: This woman is not one of the four women that 72 00:04:53,201 --> 00:04:56,841 Speaker 2: Larry says that he was told about. The officer no 73 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,521 Speaker 2: longer works in Saint Helen's. We're aware of where they are, 74 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,601 Speaker 2: but we've decided not to publish that for now, as 75 00:05:03,681 --> 00:05:08,121 Speaker 2: these are simply alligat pats. The officer has moved out 76 00:05:08,121 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: of the town and there was a reason for that, 77 00:05:10,641 --> 00:05:13,161 Speaker 2: But Larry says it wasn't what you think. 78 00:05:14,401 --> 00:05:17,001 Speaker 1: The reason I was told for that was that the 79 00:05:17,081 --> 00:05:22,121 Speaker 1: community we're planning some kind of retaliation vigilanty action against 80 00:05:24,641 --> 00:05:28,201 Speaker 1: death threats. When I first heard of this matter, I 81 00:05:28,521 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: contacted the police Professional Standards Command and provided the name 82 00:05:32,801 --> 00:05:35,601 Speaker 1: of my informant, who said that you would be happy 83 00:05:35,641 --> 00:05:40,681 Speaker 1: to talk about this officer and talk about the instance 84 00:05:40,721 --> 00:05:44,481 Speaker 1: where these young women were coming to her for support. 85 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:51,401 Speaker 1: Then in December of twenty three, I included this officer 86 00:05:51,641 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: as a person of concern, along with many other allegations 87 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,561 Speaker 1: that had been disclosed to me in my loud of 88 00:05:58,561 --> 00:06:02,841 Speaker 1: fan's capacity, not necessary about the East Coast, but more 89 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,481 Speaker 1: to do with greater long system. And then because how 90 00:06:06,521 --> 00:06:10,201 Speaker 1: many a police did not acknowledge or receipt, I tested 91 00:06:10,281 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: them and finally got to give them an actual police 92 00:06:14,481 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: statement in June of twenty four and the officer I 93 00:06:19,241 --> 00:06:22,041 Speaker 1: spoke to there said that she would take up the 94 00:06:22,081 --> 00:06:26,561 Speaker 1: matter of this officer and talk with my informant, which 95 00:06:26,601 --> 00:06:30,121 Speaker 1: didn't happen. And I suppose what spurred me on is 96 00:06:30,521 --> 00:06:33,161 Speaker 1: in the back of my mind, I've always had lingering 97 00:06:33,241 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: concerns about an officer characterized as a violent sexual predator 98 00:06:38,641 --> 00:06:41,561 Speaker 1: who may in fact remain within the police force. So 99 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,921 Speaker 1: when I have sent it to a lamby Maker statement 100 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: in Federal Parliament about her concerns about the Eden Westbrook manor, 101 00:06:50,201 --> 00:06:52,361 Speaker 1: it spurred me on to do more of my own 102 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: research and was able to identify an officer who would 103 00:06:58,361 --> 00:07:02,041 Speaker 1: very clearly fit the description as given to me, and 104 00:07:02,481 --> 00:07:06,921 Speaker 1: I noticed on his personal Facebook the number of disturbing photographs, 105 00:07:07,241 --> 00:07:09,361 Speaker 1: including a picture of a hanged girl. 106 00:07:10,761 --> 00:07:13,641 Speaker 2: After our call with Larry, he sent me various pictures 107 00:07:13,681 --> 00:07:16,761 Speaker 2: of this officer and his social media posts. On that 108 00:07:16,841 --> 00:07:20,921 Speaker 2: same personal Facebook page. Recently, there are pictures of this 109 00:07:21,041 --> 00:07:25,441 Speaker 2: officer with young girls at a school. The photos have 110 00:07:25,561 --> 00:07:28,441 Speaker 2: since been removed, but Larry was on the case and 111 00:07:28,481 --> 00:07:31,001 Speaker 2: screenshotted them before they were taken down. 112 00:07:31,801 --> 00:07:35,401 Speaker 1: I've can see this happening, so I took screenshots and 113 00:07:35,641 --> 00:07:38,161 Speaker 1: I'll be able to share them. That the photo we 114 00:07:38,201 --> 00:07:42,721 Speaker 1: said generic photo. But I suppose as a victim survivor, 115 00:07:43,161 --> 00:07:45,721 Speaker 1: I find the quite triering to think that an officer 116 00:07:46,161 --> 00:07:49,241 Speaker 1: would think it right to post something like that on 117 00:07:49,321 --> 00:07:50,801 Speaker 1: their personal Facebook page. 118 00:07:51,001 --> 00:07:55,361 Speaker 2: So, having gone to the police to report what you'd 119 00:07:55,401 --> 00:07:58,641 Speaker 2: heard as a first disclosure, and they didn't contact you 120 00:07:58,681 --> 00:08:00,681 Speaker 2: at all, or they didn't contact this person that had 121 00:08:00,721 --> 00:08:01,921 Speaker 2: come forward to you at. 122 00:08:01,881 --> 00:08:06,801 Speaker 1: All, they didn't. That's right, And whys the police are 123 00:08:06,841 --> 00:08:09,721 Speaker 1: not consistently doing what I understood that they would do, 124 00:08:09,841 --> 00:08:14,161 Speaker 1: which is they should officially receive these u uniquely identified 125 00:08:14,361 --> 00:08:18,801 Speaker 1: such reports, and they're not. And I'm also aware now 126 00:08:18,881 --> 00:08:22,441 Speaker 1: that having spoken with the Westbrooks that they had similarly 127 00:08:23,041 --> 00:08:26,841 Speaker 1: raised concerns about this officer with professional standards command and 128 00:08:27,161 --> 00:08:31,241 Speaker 1: got no kind of satisfaction at all through that particular route. 129 00:08:32,041 --> 00:08:34,761 Speaker 2: As Larry said, he's a victim survivor and before he 130 00:08:34,881 --> 00:08:38,121 Speaker 2: joined loud Fence as a coordinator in Tasmania, he was 131 00:08:38,161 --> 00:08:42,121 Speaker 2: a business manager at the Lonceesston General Hospital. This was 132 00:08:42,201 --> 00:08:45,481 Speaker 2: in the years preceding the appointment of James Griffin, the 133 00:08:45,601 --> 00:08:49,561 Speaker 2: nurse who killed himself after being found to be a 134 00:08:49,641 --> 00:08:53,721 Speaker 2: child sex abuser. Larry made his own submission to the 135 00:08:53,761 --> 00:08:55,121 Speaker 2: Royal Commission. 136 00:08:55,521 --> 00:09:00,961 Speaker 1: At my own instigation, was some cultural context to the 137 00:09:01,001 --> 00:09:05,681 Speaker 1: wrongdoings that I saw happening at the hospital. I felt 138 00:09:06,081 --> 00:09:10,401 Speaker 1: created the culture that permitted Jim Griffin to be a 139 00:09:10,401 --> 00:09:14,801 Speaker 1: pedophile clearly observed for a period of something like eating years. 140 00:09:15,961 --> 00:09:18,041 Speaker 2: For those that don't know the story of James Griffin, 141 00:09:18,081 --> 00:09:21,321 Speaker 2: who was regularly referred to as Jim, the allegations against 142 00:09:21,361 --> 00:09:24,081 Speaker 2: Griffin date back to nineteen eighty when he was in 143 00:09:24,081 --> 00:09:27,121 Speaker 2: his thirties. He would take thirty years for him to 144 00:09:27,161 --> 00:09:30,561 Speaker 2: be arrested. In that time, he gained access to children, 145 00:09:30,641 --> 00:09:33,441 Speaker 2: primarily through his role as a nurse on the pediatric 146 00:09:33,521 --> 00:09:37,481 Speaker 2: ward of the Lonsessant General Hospital and as a massage 147 00:09:37,521 --> 00:09:42,241 Speaker 2: therapist for junior sporting teams. Police had numerous chances to 148 00:09:42,281 --> 00:09:45,761 Speaker 2: stop Griffin, including in two thousand when a man bought 149 00:09:45,801 --> 00:09:49,201 Speaker 2: a laptop from Griffin and told police it contained possible 150 00:09:49,281 --> 00:09:54,801 Speaker 2: child abuse material. His email was ignored. Griffin worked as 151 00:09:54,801 --> 00:09:57,841 Speaker 2: a registered nurse during his life, including on the Spirit 152 00:09:57,881 --> 00:10:02,321 Speaker 2: of Tasmania, the Ashley Detention Center and the Pediatric center 153 00:10:02,441 --> 00:10:06,641 Speaker 2: in Lonceston General Hospital. As a result of him working 154 00:10:06,681 --> 00:10:10,041 Speaker 2: with children, he was required to acquire a Working with 155 00:10:10,161 --> 00:10:14,401 Speaker 2: Vulnerable Person's accreditation, which he did so in June of 156 00:10:14,441 --> 00:10:19,601 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. After he was found out, Much like Paul Reynolds, 157 00:10:19,641 --> 00:10:23,281 Speaker 2: police started to close in. They seized computers and more 158 00:10:23,321 --> 00:10:27,841 Speaker 2: people came forward. Griffin was arrested but out on bail. 159 00:10:28,481 --> 00:10:32,241 Speaker 2: While on bail, Gryffin contacted his son asking for help. 160 00:10:32,961 --> 00:10:34,881 Speaker 2: His son said he went to his dad's house. They 161 00:10:34,961 --> 00:10:38,561 Speaker 2: chatted and the son left. A short time later, the 162 00:10:38,601 --> 00:10:40,641 Speaker 2: sun texted his dad to see if he was okay. 163 00:10:41,401 --> 00:10:44,361 Speaker 2: There was no response. The son went back to the 164 00:10:44,441 --> 00:10:46,921 Speaker 2: dad's house the next day and found his dad in 165 00:10:46,961 --> 00:10:50,121 Speaker 2: the chair in the lounge room with discharge coming from 166 00:10:50,121 --> 00:10:54,041 Speaker 2: his mouth. He was taken to hospital and died from 167 00:10:54,161 --> 00:10:59,361 Speaker 2: a prescription medication overdose. The government held a Royal Commission 168 00:10:59,441 --> 00:11:04,041 Speaker 2: into Tasmanian government's responses to institutional child sexual abuse and 169 00:11:04,121 --> 00:11:07,481 Speaker 2: hand it down as fire and recommendations in twenty twenty one, 170 00:11:08,041 --> 00:11:11,481 Speaker 2: but it was too late. Griffin had already killed himself 171 00:11:11,841 --> 00:11:15,801 Speaker 2: and wasn't held accountable for what he did. The commission 172 00:11:15,921 --> 00:11:18,961 Speaker 2: was largely brought about by media attention and in particular 173 00:11:19,201 --> 00:11:21,921 Speaker 2: the Australian podcast Called a Nurse, which was released in 174 00:11:21,921 --> 00:11:25,241 Speaker 2: twenty twenty. But the particulars around that case and what 175 00:11:25,241 --> 00:11:28,001 Speaker 2: we've heard about Paul Reynolds, the man who was attached 176 00:11:28,041 --> 00:11:32,041 Speaker 2: to this case, about Eden Westbrook, sounds like they're from 177 00:11:32,081 --> 00:11:36,881 Speaker 2: the same school. And that's what shocked Larry most. How 178 00:11:36,881 --> 00:11:40,881 Speaker 2: does this make you feel, knowing that you've uncovered an 179 00:11:40,921 --> 00:11:45,561 Speaker 2: officer of the law who's allegedly doing these sorts of things. 180 00:11:46,401 --> 00:11:52,361 Speaker 1: I am extremely alarmed. I am distressed because I think 181 00:11:52,561 --> 00:11:57,241 Speaker 1: anybody who suffered cholds actould abuse and would understand the 182 00:11:57,321 --> 00:12:03,201 Speaker 1: harms that these young people have experienced, and also with 183 00:12:03,321 --> 00:12:07,481 Speaker 1: the knowledge and understand that he remains unchecked and he 184 00:12:07,601 --> 00:12:13,601 Speaker 1: remains serving police officer, doubly so because the Tasmanian Police 185 00:12:13,641 --> 00:12:19,241 Speaker 1: Facebook page has multiple photos of him this officer clearly 186 00:12:19,321 --> 00:12:24,321 Speaker 1: engaging with primary school age children and disabled women. So 187 00:12:25,001 --> 00:12:29,921 Speaker 1: this is the classic modus operandi of a pedophile, and 188 00:12:30,601 --> 00:12:34,321 Speaker 1: with multiple allegations from a range of what I believe 189 00:12:34,361 --> 00:12:38,721 Speaker 1: credible sources identifying him as a violent sexual predator, I 190 00:12:38,761 --> 00:12:42,801 Speaker 1: think that all parents should be extremely alarmed. 191 00:12:46,761 --> 00:12:49,041 Speaker 2: Welcome back to this episode of Our Little Lady as 192 00:12:49,081 --> 00:12:52,121 Speaker 2: we look into new allegations about a pedophile who was 193 00:12:52,201 --> 00:12:55,961 Speaker 2: grooming up the five women in Saint Helen's. Christine was 194 00:12:56,001 --> 00:12:59,361 Speaker 2: married to a police officer in Tasmania for seventeen years. 195 00:12:59,761 --> 00:13:03,601 Speaker 2: They're no longer together, but Christine herself worked inside the 196 00:13:03,641 --> 00:13:05,601 Speaker 2: police department as a civilian. 197 00:13:06,081 --> 00:13:08,641 Speaker 4: So I first got into government at the age of 198 00:13:08,641 --> 00:13:12,441 Speaker 4: fifteen after I sat the Tesmay State Service Exam. Then 199 00:13:13,081 --> 00:13:16,081 Speaker 4: I started working for TGIO, which is no longer there, 200 00:13:16,641 --> 00:13:19,041 Speaker 4: and then from there I worked for the Education Department, 201 00:13:19,241 --> 00:13:22,681 Speaker 4: and then I moved to Brisbane worked for emergency services. 202 00:13:22,681 --> 00:13:26,121 Speaker 4: There after I met my now ex husband. We had 203 00:13:26,161 --> 00:13:29,681 Speaker 4: a child and he's Maori, so we decided to go 204 00:13:29,721 --> 00:13:32,601 Speaker 4: to New Zealand. Three year I worked for police in 205 00:13:32,681 --> 00:13:34,881 Speaker 4: New Zealand for a year and he worked for the prison. 206 00:13:35,481 --> 00:13:39,601 Speaker 4: And then I didn't really like New Zealand as much 207 00:13:39,641 --> 00:13:42,081 Speaker 4: as I thought I would have, and my family's actually 208 00:13:42,121 --> 00:13:45,321 Speaker 4: based here in Tasmania. So I applied for a job 209 00:13:45,361 --> 00:13:49,441 Speaker 4: as an executive officer within Department of Police for emergency 210 00:13:49,481 --> 00:13:54,481 Speaker 4: management and I got that position, and I was in 211 00:13:54,481 --> 00:13:57,921 Speaker 4: that position I would have been four and a half years. 212 00:13:58,441 --> 00:14:01,321 Speaker 4: And then I got promoted to a position at the 213 00:14:01,401 --> 00:14:04,441 Speaker 4: Tasmania Police Academy and I was in that position and 214 00:14:04,681 --> 00:14:08,681 Speaker 4: kill a complaint was made against me, which I was 215 00:14:08,761 --> 00:14:14,641 Speaker 4: striking through an industrial commission because the report was totally biased. 216 00:14:15,601 --> 00:14:18,161 Speaker 2: Christine no longer works to the government, and we'll get 217 00:14:18,201 --> 00:14:20,841 Speaker 2: to that story at the end of this podcast, but 218 00:14:21,081 --> 00:14:23,681 Speaker 2: it does go to show something that Jackie Lamby mentioned 219 00:14:23,721 --> 00:14:26,361 Speaker 2: previously in the podcast a few episodes ago. 220 00:14:27,401 --> 00:14:28,801 Speaker 5: Oh my god, if you want to cover it up, 221 00:14:29,521 --> 00:14:31,921 Speaker 5: she's in the institution, she'll get covered up. And that's 222 00:14:31,921 --> 00:14:32,361 Speaker 5: what it is. 223 00:14:32,401 --> 00:14:33,921 Speaker 2: It's just a bloody cover up up there. 224 00:14:34,241 --> 00:14:39,441 Speaker 5: Disgusting anything that's institutional, whether it's a universities, whether it's defense, 225 00:14:39,761 --> 00:14:42,641 Speaker 5: whether it's politics. The first thing that they're taught, especially 226 00:14:42,641 --> 00:14:46,081 Speaker 5: the hierarchies, cover the institutions asked at all costs, at 227 00:14:46,161 --> 00:14:49,001 Speaker 5: all costs, doesn't matter whether you're taking people's lives, you 228 00:14:49,001 --> 00:14:50,801 Speaker 5: will cover the institutions. 229 00:14:50,161 --> 00:14:54,121 Speaker 2: Asked at all costs. But right now, I wanted to 230 00:14:54,161 --> 00:14:57,641 Speaker 2: know from Christine about the reports of pedophile behavior in 231 00:14:57,681 --> 00:15:01,281 Speaker 2: the police force in Tasmania. When we spoke first, you 232 00:15:01,361 --> 00:15:07,201 Speaker 2: mentioned that you're aware of pedophile behavior within the Tasmanian 233 00:15:07,201 --> 00:15:12,401 Speaker 2: Police Force. We've heard about detective Senior Sergeant Paul Reynolds. 234 00:15:12,841 --> 00:15:16,921 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I was interviewed over that as well, because 235 00:15:17,361 --> 00:15:20,481 Speaker 4: Senior Sergeant Reynolds or I knew him as both would 236 00:15:20,521 --> 00:15:23,001 Speaker 4: come to the academy and stay overnight. And it was 237 00:15:23,081 --> 00:15:25,681 Speaker 4: quite interesting because the question I was asked was did 238 00:15:25,681 --> 00:15:29,641 Speaker 4: I ever see him over or look at recruits? You know, 239 00:15:29,761 --> 00:15:33,161 Speaker 4: uncomfortably for everything. Your officers do that with every recruit, 240 00:15:34,081 --> 00:15:36,281 Speaker 4: you know, like I saw senior officers doing that, so 241 00:15:36,321 --> 00:15:38,441 Speaker 4: it didn't matter. Some of the recruits co in the 242 00:15:38,521 --> 00:15:41,121 Speaker 4: seventeen and as long as they're raising when they graduate, 243 00:15:41,401 --> 00:15:43,961 Speaker 4: doesn't been with the male or female I have seen it. 244 00:15:44,321 --> 00:15:46,721 Speaker 4: I've known of that will actually just show up for 245 00:15:46,761 --> 00:15:49,961 Speaker 4: recruitment days and twos, you know, because they're young and 246 00:15:49,961 --> 00:15:53,921 Speaker 4: good looking or whatever. So am I aware that there 247 00:15:53,961 --> 00:16:00,121 Speaker 4: are pedophiles in Tasmania police one percent one And it's 248 00:16:00,161 --> 00:16:02,321 Speaker 4: not that I've seen them openly in talking about it. 249 00:16:02,361 --> 00:16:04,681 Speaker 4: But that's only from the reports that I've read. Weak 250 00:16:04,721 --> 00:16:09,001 Speaker 4: and play have been made against police officers. Some for 251 00:16:09,281 --> 00:16:12,961 Speaker 4: my understanding, have been found to be correct and they're 252 00:16:12,961 --> 00:16:18,961 Speaker 4: still in the job. But as for Sergeant Reynolds, there 253 00:16:19,041 --> 00:16:22,841 Speaker 4: was always rumors going around. But I really liked I 254 00:16:22,921 --> 00:16:25,401 Speaker 4: know that, but I really liked him. He was very rambunctious, 255 00:16:25,401 --> 00:16:28,121 Speaker 4: he was very endearing. It was easy to talk to. 256 00:16:28,361 --> 00:16:30,881 Speaker 4: He was great fun. But that's how they do what 257 00:16:30,921 --> 00:16:33,281 Speaker 4: they do against That's just how they do what they do. 258 00:16:34,041 --> 00:16:37,481 Speaker 2: When you heard the news about Paul Reynolds and it broke, 259 00:16:37,961 --> 00:16:38,841 Speaker 2: did it surprise you? 260 00:16:39,881 --> 00:16:46,721 Speaker 4: No. What surprised me the most was that the department 261 00:16:46,801 --> 00:16:48,561 Speaker 4: was able to cover it up and keept it quiet 262 00:16:48,601 --> 00:16:52,641 Speaker 4: for so long because they had known since two thousand 263 00:16:52,641 --> 00:16:55,361 Speaker 4: and eight. Was the first complaint that came in. I 264 00:16:55,401 --> 00:16:57,521 Speaker 4: don't know how many have come in since two thousand 265 00:16:57,561 --> 00:16:59,601 Speaker 4: and eight, but obviously enough for him to have been caught, 266 00:17:00,401 --> 00:17:03,281 Speaker 4: for the department to have known that and for it 267 00:17:03,321 --> 00:17:06,041 Speaker 4: to be reported to one now senior officer who knew 268 00:17:06,161 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 4: back then to even support and I will use that 269 00:17:09,801 --> 00:17:14,801 Speaker 4: word support a state police funeral. I was just disgusted 270 00:17:14,801 --> 00:17:18,281 Speaker 4: over that, because you've got your police officers, and there's 271 00:17:18,321 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 4: some fantastic police officers out there, especially the ones that 272 00:17:21,921 --> 00:17:23,961 Speaker 4: are on the street that are doing hard every day. 273 00:17:24,441 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 4: There's lots of fantastic police officers, so I want to 274 00:17:27,321 --> 00:17:31,001 Speaker 4: emphasize that. But for them to stand there and salute 275 00:17:31,041 --> 00:17:35,321 Speaker 4: somebody that the upper echer on knew was a pedophile, 276 00:17:36,241 --> 00:17:38,281 Speaker 4: it just blows my mind and astowns me. 277 00:17:42,961 --> 00:17:44,961 Speaker 2: We heard at the start of the podcast that Christine 278 00:17:45,041 --> 00:17:48,561 Speaker 2: used to work at the police recruit headquarters. That was 279 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,201 Speaker 2: until her house was raided by police and she spent 280 00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 2: five years trying to battle to clear her name. It 281 00:17:56,281 --> 00:17:59,801 Speaker 2: ended in a secret payout that she can't disclose, but 282 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 2: it was substantial and in the seven figures. I wanted 283 00:18:03,721 --> 00:18:05,001 Speaker 2: to know what led her. 284 00:18:06,521 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 4: So the findings were that I was guilty. They found 285 00:18:09,921 --> 00:18:16,281 Speaker 4: me guilty of sexually harassing or grooming openly gay male 286 00:18:16,561 --> 00:18:20,361 Speaker 4: young police recruit for the sexual satisfaction of my husband, 287 00:18:21,041 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 4: which is so far from the truth, and which I 288 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,761 Speaker 4: was surprised with because when I was told there was 289 00:18:26,761 --> 00:18:29,881 Speaker 4: a complaints made, I actually believed it was from another 290 00:18:29,961 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 4: recruit who turned out to be this young male's best friend, 291 00:18:34,561 --> 00:18:39,401 Speaker 4: because she was using her fingers to get bread out 292 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,801 Speaker 4: of a bread wind and I asked to use tongs 293 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 4: and she said, I don't know how to use tongs. 294 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,041 Speaker 4: And I said, how could you not know how to 295 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,921 Speaker 4: use tongs or give your clowns guns, which I did say, 296 00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:53,961 Speaker 4: and that really upset her because this young male recruit 297 00:18:54,441 --> 00:18:58,241 Speaker 4: told me that I'd upset his bessie, and I did 298 00:18:58,281 --> 00:19:02,321 Speaker 4: have a discussion with this young male recruit previously to 299 00:19:02,481 --> 00:19:06,041 Speaker 4: him when I was working at the academy. I've had 300 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:11,281 Speaker 4: five senior people when I first started at the academy 301 00:19:12,001 --> 00:19:15,801 Speaker 4: being autistic and I was employed on the disability framework 302 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,281 Speaker 4: or was fully disclosed. I didn't realize and I still 303 00:19:20,321 --> 00:19:22,561 Speaker 4: don't get it in a lot of ways. But they 304 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,201 Speaker 4: said that I've got social awkwardness, which I agree with, 305 00:19:25,481 --> 00:19:30,441 Speaker 4: and I lacked communication skills. But senior officers were showing 306 00:19:30,521 --> 00:19:34,921 Speaker 4: up to where the kitchen door was in vehicles expecting 307 00:19:34,961 --> 00:19:38,521 Speaker 4: me to put curtains of alcohol in the vehicles for 308 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:43,561 Speaker 4: senior officers and I wouldn't do it, and that caused 309 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,721 Speaker 4: me a lot of problems, not that I saw them, 310 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,881 Speaker 4: but people were saying to me, you're not very well liked. 311 00:19:50,441 --> 00:19:53,041 Speaker 4: And I couldn't understand why I wasn't liked because I 312 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 4: was happy to put curtains of alcohol into these senior officers' 313 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 4: cars for them to take back to their offices and 314 00:20:00,521 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 4: consume if it was put in writing. And it was 315 00:20:03,441 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 4: never put in writing to me. 316 00:20:04,681 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 2: Ever, can I just ask, so, the reason that you 317 00:20:08,281 --> 00:20:11,321 Speaker 2: were in charge of the bar at the academy is 318 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:11,801 Speaker 2: that right? 319 00:20:12,281 --> 00:20:14,961 Speaker 4: Yes, I was the licenseee. I was also in charge 320 00:20:14,961 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 4: of purchasing the alcohol and therefore balancing that against sales. 321 00:20:20,041 --> 00:20:23,441 Speaker 2: Now I'm guessing, and I don't know the rule, but 322 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:29,641 Speaker 2: it's illegal for a public officer to take goods out 323 00:20:29,681 --> 00:20:32,961 Speaker 2: of something that has been purchased by the government the police. 324 00:20:32,961 --> 00:20:35,801 Speaker 4: In this case, well, it definitely is. I mean I 325 00:20:35,921 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 4: thought it was corrupt behavior. That's the word that I use. 326 00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 4: I shouldn't be expected to purchase alcohol for it to 327 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 4: then be given to police officers for them to go 328 00:20:47,681 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 4: and consume in their own officers in the city, for 329 00:20:51,521 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 4: the most senior management, I should not have done that, so. 330 00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:01,441 Speaker 2: You became a whistleblower around this particular instances of high 331 00:21:01,521 --> 00:21:06,761 Speaker 2: ranking police officers taking alcohol for their own conser And also. 332 00:21:07,241 --> 00:21:10,881 Speaker 4: I had it in writing where the last seeing after 333 00:21:10,961 --> 00:21:14,921 Speaker 4: I worked for he actually invited all staff for free 334 00:21:15,001 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 4: drinks at the Academy bar. And I asked him how 335 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,721 Speaker 4: I'm supposed to balance it. I included the utility officer 336 00:21:21,761 --> 00:21:24,001 Speaker 4: because there's always two people that did stock take, so 337 00:21:24,041 --> 00:21:26,161 Speaker 4: there was two people with a count of cash. There 338 00:21:26,201 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 4: was always a speechsheet when I was over or under 339 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,321 Speaker 4: from bar nights that the police officers would have. We 340 00:21:32,441 --> 00:21:34,801 Speaker 4: always had the two people because I'm made sure of that, 341 00:21:35,281 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 4: so there wasn't any issues. And I asked him verbally first, 342 00:21:39,961 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 4: how am I supposed to balance these bar nights that 343 00:21:42,001 --> 00:21:44,801 Speaker 4: you're putting on for free? How do I balance it? 344 00:21:45,521 --> 00:21:48,481 Speaker 4: And he said I can do this if I want 345 00:21:48,481 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 4: to do it, like we actually can't, not within a 346 00:21:50,241 --> 00:21:53,761 Speaker 4: delegated authority because I understood the Treasurer's guidelines. So then 347 00:21:53,801 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 4: I emailed him because he didn't give me a response. 348 00:21:56,721 --> 00:21:58,801 Speaker 4: He then flew into my office and said, don't you 349 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,681 Speaker 4: ever put that in writing to me? Again? I said, 350 00:22:00,721 --> 00:22:04,801 Speaker 4: all I'm asking for is every third Friday you've been 351 00:22:04,801 --> 00:22:06,521 Speaker 4: buying start. 352 00:22:06,321 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 3: For free drinks. 353 00:22:07,201 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 4: I'm asking you how do I balance it? Then he 354 00:22:10,441 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 4: really lost it at me and he said, I'm the 355 00:22:12,721 --> 00:22:15,401 Speaker 4: most popular. Everybody loves me. I don't know what your 356 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,041 Speaker 4: problem is. And then I said, looking dick doesn't make 357 00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:21,281 Speaker 4: yours any bigger. That was wrong of me to say, 358 00:22:21,321 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 4: but he's already pushed every button of mine. And so 359 00:22:25,561 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 4: I then wrote to Reckon, the second most senior person 360 00:22:30,721 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 4: in the department, with an email with a copy to 361 00:22:34,481 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 4: the utility officer because he was the one with me 362 00:22:36,961 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 4: doing the stock take, asking how do I balance this? 363 00:22:40,921 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 4: These is continually giving away free alcohol? How am I 364 00:22:44,241 --> 00:22:47,241 Speaker 4: supposed to balance it? And ten days later I was 365 00:22:47,241 --> 00:22:50,881 Speaker 4: stood down on a complaint and I haven't been back 366 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 4: to work since, and that was in twenty nineteen. It 367 00:22:53,801 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 4: took a long time because initially I wasn't going to 368 00:22:56,721 --> 00:23:00,681 Speaker 4: settle and I needed to go down and be rabbit hole, 369 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 4: as in I lodged complaints where I was told that 370 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,841 Speaker 4: they lodged on the police systems to only find out 371 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 4: through rite to information. After being rejected several times through 372 00:23:11,521 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 4: write to information on appeal on appeal on appeal. I 373 00:23:15,001 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 4: was then told that on another scene, that none of 374 00:23:19,681 --> 00:23:21,921 Speaker 4: my complaints have ever been registered and that's what they've 375 00:23:21,921 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 4: never been addressed. I did go to the Premiers with 376 00:23:25,801 --> 00:23:28,841 Speaker 4: it and the Minister's office. I've got emails he where 377 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 4: I've written to them. I rang the Minister's office to 378 00:23:31,921 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 4: talk to them about I finally got the redacted information 379 00:23:34,961 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 4: I needed on briefing notes about me to the minister 380 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 4: when initially the department said they never had written anything 381 00:23:41,241 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 4: about me. That was a lie because one of the 382 00:23:43,481 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 4: corporate ghosts, can I say, actually told me that there 383 00:23:46,281 --> 00:23:49,321 Speaker 4: were briefing notes, yet the Department put in writing there weren't. 384 00:23:49,801 --> 00:23:52,001 Speaker 4: I knew that there was because I believe this person 385 00:23:52,001 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 4: will lie. Turned out there work wanted to meet with 386 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 4: the minister. The Minister would meet with me. So I 387 00:23:58,921 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 4: have never been able to get an audience face to 388 00:24:00,921 --> 00:24:04,001 Speaker 4: face with the Minister about my concerns. My complaints have 389 00:24:04,241 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 4: never ever been lodged. The Integrity Commission told me that 390 00:24:08,961 --> 00:24:12,441 Speaker 4: since the complaints related back to twenty nineteen and twenty twenty, 391 00:24:12,801 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 4: especially with the Serious and Organized Crime Unit raiding me 392 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:19,961 Speaker 4: on a fourth warrant, that it was historical and the 393 00:24:20,001 --> 00:24:23,761 Speaker 4: public wouldn't be interested in the senior police officers drinking 394 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,721 Speaker 4: or the alcohol for nothing, and wouldn't be interested in 395 00:24:26,921 --> 00:24:30,801 Speaker 4: this same senior officer a sanctioning a raid on my 396 00:24:30,921 --> 00:24:33,521 Speaker 4: house which obviously caused my marriage to break down. 397 00:24:34,281 --> 00:24:37,681 Speaker 2: Can I ask the settlement what was that in regards 398 00:24:37,761 --> 00:24:39,321 Speaker 2: to So that was. 399 00:24:39,321 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 4: In relating to discrimination. I was discriminated against where I 400 00:24:43,521 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 4: really inquished my job after I was raided, so I 401 00:24:46,201 --> 00:24:49,201 Speaker 4: just wanted to get on with work actually, But during 402 00:24:49,281 --> 00:24:53,521 Speaker 4: the Tasman Industrial Commission, the senior representatives of the Police 403 00:24:53,561 --> 00:24:57,681 Speaker 4: Department of the Department of Police for Emergency Management stated, 404 00:24:57,721 --> 00:24:59,801 Speaker 4: I don't look any different. So if I was to 405 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,281 Speaker 4: go back, the need to be signage so that people 406 00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:05,281 Speaker 4: knew that I was autistic. Stonage was on my or 407 00:25:05,681 --> 00:25:08,281 Speaker 4: to warn people that I was autistic. It's said person 408 00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:12,081 Speaker 4: athoritism present. But I wasn't allowed to use the same toilet, 409 00:25:12,521 --> 00:25:15,281 Speaker 4: didn't have access the same access as everybody else that 410 00:25:15,321 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 4: went through an equal opportunity Tasmania where they were found 411 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 4: guilty of it. So the payout that I got was 412 00:25:21,281 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 4: in relation to the discrimination that I suffered, the negligence 413 00:25:25,321 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 4: of the raid on my home, and also you'll never 414 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 4: get an apology from Tasmania Police ever, ever, ever. But 415 00:25:31,801 --> 00:25:34,641 Speaker 4: the amount of money that I got was a reflection 416 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 4: on how the government, I would say, has treated me 417 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,441 Speaker 4: throughout five and a half years. So it was substantial. 418 00:25:42,681 --> 00:25:46,321 Speaker 4: But there there is confidentiality because on that. But I 419 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:48,201 Speaker 4: wouldn't have got any more money than what I did. 420 00:25:48,561 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 4: There's no way I would have got it. But I 421 00:25:49,921 --> 00:25:52,721 Speaker 4: wouldn't have taken it if they said that I had 422 00:25:52,761 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 4: to sign a disparaging clause and I definitely wouldn't have 423 00:25:56,001 --> 00:25:57,681 Speaker 4: taken it if I didn't have. 424 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,041 Speaker 2: A voice talk to me about what a disparaging clause is. 425 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,761 Speaker 4: So that's where I wouldn't be able to talk to you. 426 00:26:05,321 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 4: Causes where I've said, you know how they tread me, 427 00:26:07,681 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 4: how that closed rank. Once you caught in the crosshairs, 428 00:26:10,681 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 4: you're done, You're actually done. I did have a senior 429 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,401 Speaker 4: officer supporting me, and he ever received threatening letters from 430 00:26:17,481 --> 00:26:20,801 Speaker 4: higher up from the apparentilon, so much so that he 431 00:26:21,201 --> 00:26:25,561 Speaker 4: relinquished his position that he held and transferred out and 432 00:26:25,681 --> 00:26:28,561 Speaker 4: went sideway. So they do have a lot of power 433 00:26:29,001 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 4: and none of them will come forward. I actually had 434 00:26:32,241 --> 00:26:34,921 Speaker 4: a very senior officer approached me saying what was done 435 00:26:34,961 --> 00:26:37,321 Speaker 4: to me and what was being done to me he 436 00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:39,801 Speaker 4: didn't agree with, and not to hold him accountable. And 437 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,801 Speaker 4: I just said him, you're complicit. You're standing by and 438 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 4: allowing this to happen to me. You know what they're doing. 439 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 4: And then I was told I just should have played 440 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,961 Speaker 4: the game, and I said, well, I don't know what 441 00:26:51,041 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 4: the game is. And again I would have been happy 442 00:26:54,561 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 4: to let them have the alcohol and do what they 443 00:26:56,961 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 4: wanted if they would just put it in writing and 444 00:26:58,921 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 4: I could balance the books. End of that, what happened, 445 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 4: there was no way. They will never back down. They 446 00:27:04,441 --> 00:27:07,041 Speaker 4: were never back damn. And that's got the full support 447 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:08,521 Speaker 4: of the current government as well. 448 00:27:09,201 --> 00:27:12,121 Speaker 2: Christine, can I ask one final question, how has all 449 00:27:12,201 --> 00:27:13,001 Speaker 2: this affected you? 450 00:27:14,521 --> 00:27:20,481 Speaker 4: Oh? That's a hard one. Get a bit emotional. I've 451 00:27:20,521 --> 00:27:25,161 Speaker 4: lost my reputation, I've lost my career, I lost my husband, 452 00:27:26,201 --> 00:27:30,761 Speaker 4: I've lost my mental health. I've lost my son who's 453 00:27:30,801 --> 00:27:33,441 Speaker 4: auto sick becaus. When they raided the house, I didn't 454 00:27:33,441 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 4: actually take my computer. They took my sons, which I've 455 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:40,321 Speaker 4: never been on, never been on, which really impacted him 456 00:27:41,041 --> 00:27:44,561 Speaker 4: because the words were said similar to I could go 457 00:27:44,561 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 4: to jail, for two years. Of course, threats were made 458 00:27:47,721 --> 00:27:51,521 Speaker 4: that night. My son had an attachment disorder, So I've 459 00:27:51,521 --> 00:27:56,241 Speaker 4: got cameras up everywhere. Do I live in fear, No, No, 460 00:27:57,921 --> 00:28:01,721 Speaker 4: But I'm very cynical of the government, I think because 461 00:28:01,801 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 4: Mane it definitely is a silent state when they're most 462 00:28:07,681 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 4: senior legal person said they were going to take my 463 00:28:11,921 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 4: house and they were going to break me because of 464 00:28:15,521 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 4: the man of money they had to pay for lawyers 465 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 4: to fight them. And I've still got another matter pending. 466 00:28:20,481 --> 00:28:24,521 Speaker 4: He wasn't wrong. He hasn't yet. The Department hasn't yet 467 00:28:24,521 --> 00:28:27,281 Speaker 4: taken my house, but yeah, they have broken me. 468 00:28:39,441 --> 00:28:42,321 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode and supporting this story. 469 00:28:42,921 --> 00:28:46,081 Speaker 2: Independent storytelling that shapes the world is what podshape really 470 00:28:46,081 --> 00:28:49,041 Speaker 2: cares about. Right now, There's thousands of people listening to 471 00:28:49,081 --> 00:28:52,681 Speaker 2: this show and our other true Crimes, and they're completely engaged. 472 00:28:52,921 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 2: More than ten million Australians listen to podcasts each week. 473 00:28:56,361 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 2: If you've ever thought about advertising your business in a podcast, 474 00:28:59,521 --> 00:29:01,521 Speaker 2: there's a link to reach out in the show notes, 475 00:29:01,881 --> 00:29:04,521 Speaker 2: or head to podshape dot com to book a free call.