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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Pit Talk, a Fox Sports and

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Speaker 1: Speed Cafe Formula one podcast. On today's episode, Lando Norris

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Speaker 1: dominates the Dutch Grand Prix, serving Max Forstappen his first

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Speaker 1: ever defeat in Zandwort. It puts McLaren in the box

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Speaker 1: seat for the constructor's title, but does it make a

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Speaker 1: Norris driver's championship any more likely. My name's Michael Lamonato,

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Speaker 1: motorsport writer for Fox Sports Australia. It's great to have

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Speaker 1: your company and the company of my co host from

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Speaker 1: Speed Cafe. He told the Austrian media he'd be appearing

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Speaker 1: on our podcast, but Christian Horner says it'll only be

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Speaker 1: a podcast. It's Matt Cosh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not specific as to which podcast, just any old

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Speaker 2: podcast that's gone and there's plenty out there to choose from.

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Speaker 2: I'll just get loaned out to one of them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm thinking of calling the race podcasting if they

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Speaker 1: want you on loan for nine races, just to like

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Speaker 1: just get you into the groove of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 1: You know, maybe that'll be good. Could be any podcast today?

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Speaker 2: Can alleagansigent me from this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 1: I mean no, No, you'll be the Liam Lawson, I guess,

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Speaker 1: but you'll also be the low You'll have to be

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Speaker 1: voted at the same time.

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Speaker 2: I'll be both sides on the same coin.

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Speaker 1: Then to be uncomfortable situation. We'll have to have a

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Speaker 1: talk later on about this. We'll get to Christian Horner's

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Speaker 1: commentary and the unexpected twists of the Driving Mike a

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Speaker 1: little bit later.

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Speaker 2: I think, didn't I hate to old friends and do

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Speaker 2: that one year he went from Jordan to somewhere else

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Speaker 2: because he's got the sacked midway through when he swapped

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Speaker 2: drive with John A. Lacy.

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Speaker 1: You are the historical reference of this podcast. Just typically

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I wouldn't have asked me that question, but

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Speaker 1: not without some research first anyway. Really, it's more of

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Speaker 1: a Daniel kiveat move, isn't it to be sacked and

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Speaker 1: then to be replaced and sacked and then put back

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Speaker 1: in your team. It's unfortunate that could still be on

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Speaker 1: the cards for Logan sergeant. We'll talk about that a

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Speaker 1: little bit later on. But it's been a big week

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Speaker 1: in news, so let's go through in five minutes the

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Speaker 1: top five headlines of the last week. But let's start

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Speaker 1: with something you would already know about if you've been

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Speaker 1: subscribed to the podcast, because we do a special podcast

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Speaker 1: on it at the weekend on Saturday, but we'll recap

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Speaker 1: it for you anyway. Oz A young gun Jack Doant

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Speaker 1: will step up to Formula One with el Pane next year,

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Speaker 1: partnering with Pierre Gasly, big tick for your Australian, possibly

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Speaker 1: three Australians on the grid next year, and just a

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Speaker 1: terrific chance for a guy who I think has been

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Speaker 1: a little bit underrated during his junior career. I'm really

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Speaker 1: excited to seeing how he goes.

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Speaker 2: Yep, he's a race winner in Formula three and Formula two.

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Speaker 2: Probably would have done better in his last year of

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Speaker 2: Formula two if he didn't have a crack chassis through

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Speaker 2: the first third of the season and then you know

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Speaker 2: the pressure mount stotom and he made a mistake in

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Speaker 2: Monaco which sort of kicked him into gear himself. So yeah, look,

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Speaker 2: he's really highly thought of in Edston's done a lot

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Speaker 2: of work behind the scenes there in terms of simulator

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Speaker 2: lots of time in previous model cars as well tire testing,

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Speaker 2: so lots of seat time along with lots of respect

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Speaker 2: from that team. So and just good to see and

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Speaker 2: our peen youngster get the nod.

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Speaker 1: Yeah at al Pain, which is yeah, good for them

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Speaker 1: staying with the driver market now and after he's big

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Speaker 1: and let's be honest, quite silly. FT three crash logan

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Speaker 1: sergeant may have used up his last life with Williams,

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Speaker 1: where team principal James vow is seeking out alternatives to

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Speaker 1: the American racer for as soon as this weekends Italian

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Speaker 1: Grand Prix, with Liam Lawson rumored to be the most

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Speaker 1: obvious candidate, though he's not the only one.

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Speaker 2: No, he's not mix. Schumacher is in the mix there.

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Speaker 2: In fact, my intel as we're recording, the problem with

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Speaker 2: this story is that it's changing so quickly because the

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Speaker 2: deadlines seemingly so near. You know, we're talking Thursday for

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Speaker 2: a decision that has to be made by so that'll

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Speaker 2: probably shake out in the next twenty four hours. So

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Speaker 2: by the time we're recordings, we're probably wrong. But Mick

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Speaker 2: schu Macher now looks favorite for that drive. From my

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Speaker 2: understanding and the many phone calls I've had over the

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Speaker 2: last twenty four hours or so, Liam Lawson is open

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Speaker 2: to being loaned out Red Bull is Key for that

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Speaker 2: to happen, but they also want the right to be

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Speaker 2: able to call him back if they need to, and

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Speaker 2: James vows Williams isn't keen on that. Of course, Logan

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Speaker 2: Sargent's been under pressure for a long time, even going

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Speaker 2: back to the Canadian Grand Prix. I was hearing whispers

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Speaker 2: that Camiantonelli was going to go into that current. Of course,

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Speaker 2: whim sought the dispensation earlier in the year for Antonelli,

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Speaker 2: who is now eighteen. But yeah, the probable outcome is

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Speaker 2: that will be mixed Schumacher in that car if there

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Speaker 2: is a change, because time is running out.

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Speaker 1: Well, sticking with the driver market and with Andrea Kimi Antonelli.

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Speaker 1: Looking ahead to this weekend, this could be the most

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Speaker 1: watched FP one session of the year with Lewis Hamilton's

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Speaker 1: presumptive replacement. Antonelli said to take over George Russell's car

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Speaker 1: for his first in weekend F one session. As you said,

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Speaker 1: he turned eighteen on Sunday. Total Wolves ruled him out

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Speaker 1: of that William's loan agreement, but all signs are absolutely

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Speaker 1: to he'll be on the grid as soon as next season.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's now qualified for a super license without needing

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Speaker 2: dispensation or any of that stuff. So it's just an

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Speaker 2: easy way for Mercedes to assess him like for like

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Speaker 2: directly opposite George Russell and they can then have a

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Speaker 2: little bit more in favor. Realistically, my understanding is the

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Speaker 2: decisions we made, even her whispers at an announcement like

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Speaker 2: formally confirming him in that drive, and that will be

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Speaker 2: made this week. I'm not sure I'm sold on that,

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Speaker 2: but at the same time, I wouldn't be surprised because

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Speaker 2: who else is are out there that there's not really

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Speaker 2: a better bet unless you consider mixed Schumacher for a

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Speaker 2: year in caive Antonelli another one in Formula too, But

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Speaker 2: I just don't see that happening.

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Speaker 1: Must be confusing to be an Italian. You've got to

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Speaker 1: support Lewis Hamilton next year, but then you've also got

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Speaker 1: your Italian replacing Lewis Hamilton Mercedes. It's just going to

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Speaker 1: be awkward to be there, I think.

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Speaker 2: But the atmosphere is on you support the Britain, the

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Speaker 2: Italian or the Italian in the British Germany.

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Speaker 1: It's just no good. Yeah, just Grefosco Piastre. It's easier.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about Reno now because staff there have written

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Speaker 1: a letter to French management staff at the Engine Power

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Speaker 1: at the Power Unit division of course just outside of Paris,

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Speaker 1: imploring the business not to drop the F one engine

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Speaker 1: program in favor of a Mercedes customer supply which is

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Speaker 1: very much tipped to take place or be agreed by

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Speaker 1: the end of the month. The staff have claimed, among

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Speaker 1: other arguments, the shortcoming related to the power unit is

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Speaker 1: only about twenty percent of Alpine's performance difficit under these

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Speaker 1: current rules, and that it's actually the chassis department that's

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Speaker 1: all to blame.

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Speaker 2: Ultimately, the entire package as one is to blame. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter how you divide that up. Really, even if

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Speaker 2: it is only twenty percent, it is still twenty percent.

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Speaker 2: That's a pretty significant portion of the shortcoming. And also

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Speaker 2: when you've only got three other manufacturers on the grid,

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Speaker 2: then you know you're the fourth of four. But also

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Speaker 2: it's costing a huge amount of money. There is no

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Speaker 2: business case to keep that program going, and I'm sorry

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Speaker 2: to the people are very it doesn't make sense to

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Speaker 2: keep it. You can get a better performing engine for

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Speaker 2: less money, and in what business case does it make

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Speaker 2: sense to not do that? And then you add on

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Speaker 2: the extras, which is the teams more saleable in the future.

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Speaker 2: And it seems as though they're shaping up to do that.

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Speaker 2: Be that minority or a majority stake in the operation,

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Speaker 2: so the staff can feel as agrieved as they like.

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Speaker 2: French label laws will protect them quite well, but it

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Speaker 2: makes more sense to deploy that knowledge, expertise and resource

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Speaker 2: elk swhere within Renault group or even within some of

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Speaker 2: the jvs that's got with Geely or even our Peen

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Speaker 2: itself as a brand.

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Speaker 1: I want to know what Ryan Rental thinks. That's a

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Speaker 1: question for another day. Let's drip up now with Haas,

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Speaker 1: which has avoided a potential disaster by paying off its

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Speaker 1: debts with Russian former title sponsor You're Alkoli. Your Alcholi

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Speaker 1: successfully petitioned the Dutch courts to effectively impound the team's

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Speaker 1: gear after the Dutch Grand Prix until it paid up,

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Speaker 1: having potentially put its Italian Grand Prix weekend at risk.

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Speaker 1: But those trucks are rolling now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the transaction actually occurred on Friday, but the

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Speaker 2: banking system is such that that doesn't tick over until

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Speaker 2: there's a batch process that runs over, and I can

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Speaker 2: say this. I used to work in a bank years ago.

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Speaker 2: So there's a batch process that runs between banks overnight.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't run on a Friday night, but it does

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Speaker 2: run on a Monday morning, so that money wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: hit the Russian account or whatever account that it's gone

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Speaker 2: into until and this is part of the awkwardness as well.

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Speaker 2: You know, just the ability to transfer money into Russia

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Speaker 2: is not trivial anymore, nor should it be for that matter.

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Speaker 2: But that process wasn't completed until Monday morning. So obviously,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you're eraqally or the authorities and the

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Speaker 2: Netherlands who are acting under the law that they've been

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Speaker 2: instructed to until that money is cleared, which happened on

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Speaker 2: Monday morning, things remain as they as they were in

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Speaker 2: impound effectively. But it all came through in the trucks

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Speaker 2: are on the road, so no drama has never argued it.

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Speaker 2: They just claimed it was difficult because it was Russian money,

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Speaker 2: to which the Russian said, but what about no, it's not.

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Speaker 1: It's good to know that banks are still sticking to

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Speaker 1: a nine to five Monday to Friday workship.

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Speaker 2: How else do they get out to the bars the

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Speaker 2: drinking culture in banks, in my experience, was very very strong.

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Speaker 1: That's the real economic impact there really is in finance

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Speaker 1: a top five stories of the last week. But of

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Speaker 1: course over the weekend, Matt, it was a Grand Prix,

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Speaker 1: the first Grand Prix back from the mid season break,

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Speaker 1: the Dutch Grand Prix, and it was a fairly significant

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Speaker 1: outcome in terms of the story of this season. Will

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Speaker 1: of course get to some of the nitty gritty elements

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Speaker 1: of this race a little later on the podcast, but

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Speaker 1: I want to start with the main takeaway for me

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Speaker 1: anyway from Zandvort, which is the championship picture and of

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Speaker 1: course the constructors championship. Let's start there before we consider

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Speaker 1: the driver's title, because that's a little bit more of

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Speaker 1: a complicated picture. But McLaren has closed its gap to

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Speaker 1: Red Bull Racing to just thirty points. Took twelve points

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Speaker 1: off Red Bull. This despite being and this is something

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Speaker 1: we can talk about a little bit later, Sergio peir

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Speaker 1: is having a reasonable weekend. So even in let's say

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Speaker 1: the normal envelope of performance, McLaren is still taking off

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Speaker 1: enough points to take the lead of the championship. By

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Speaker 1: the end of the Singapore Grand Prix trajectory we've been

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Speaker 1: talking about over the last couple of weeks. But it's

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Speaker 1: not just that, is it, Because this was a big

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Speaker 1: performance from McLaren. Lando Norris won by the largest margin

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Speaker 1: of the entire year to date, twenty two point nine

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Speaker 1: seconds over Max we Staven. Max had never been defeated

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Speaker 1: at this Grand Prix. I'd never even be defeated for

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Speaker 1: Pole at this Grand Prix, so very much a change

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Speaker 1: of circumstances for him. But it also comes to the

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Speaker 1: context of McLaren having upgraded its car now, Matt. I

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Speaker 1: don't think anyone's assuming that McLaren's going to be winning

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Speaker 1: by record margins every week, but this was an emphatic

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Speaker 1: Sunday for that team and to Lando.

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Speaker 2: It's a sea change in many respects because if you

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Speaker 2: think back to Lando's first win in Miami, circumstance played

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Speaker 2: a pretty significant part of that. In Hungary, McLaren was strong,

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Speaker 2: but it was it wasn't demonstrably better than anyone else.

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Speaker 2: It was a little bit ahead, but it wasn't dominant.

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Speaker 2: Even Inspire, there were arguments to be made that the

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Speaker 2: Red Bull in a normal weekend where Max wasn't penalized

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Speaker 2: would have been far more competitive. There were no such

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Speaker 2: excuses here. We saw a head to head race, uninterrupted,

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Speaker 2: unhinted even by yellow flag between Max and Lando, Red

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Speaker 2: Bull and McLaren and apart from Lando getting a little

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Speaker 2: bit more will spin off the line and losing the

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Speaker 2: lead into Tarzan, I love saying that into tar I Love.

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Speaker 2: Tracks with corner names turn one to most people. But

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Speaker 2: Tarzan two colins before hugen Holts. If it weren't for that,

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Speaker 2: Orlando probably would have won by more. And then you

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Speaker 2: look back at Oscar Piastrian fourth. Okay, he was only

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Speaker 2: fourth and a little bit further back than he should

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Speaker 2: have been, but he ran the vast majority of that

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Speaker 2: race in traffic, and it was only four and a

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Speaker 2: half five seconds back from the Stappen. So you take

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Speaker 2: some of that traffic effect out and Oscar's up the

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Speaker 2: road as well. So suddenly rebels not just being beaten

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Speaker 2: by Lando Red Bulls being beaten by McLaren as a whole.

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Speaker 2: And then you've got Sergio down in six, contributing only

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Speaker 2: eight points, which clearly isn't enough. You know, sixth now

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Speaker 2: isn't enough for Sergo Perrys. It needs to be fourth

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Speaker 2: at worst, because any you're the worst of the top

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Speaker 2: two teams. Effectively, Yeah, it's we've got a cracking little

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Speaker 2: fire in our hands because this will start to set

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Speaker 2: the tone into next year as well. McLaren you mentioned

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Speaker 2: it probably has to be favorite for the Constructors Championship,

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Speaker 2: but this for me is the point at which the

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Speaker 2: pendulum is absolutely swung. We've seen it move in McLaren's

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Speaker 2: favor up to this point and Hungary was a really

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Speaker 2: good indicator of that so to SPA. But this is

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Speaker 2: the point where, yeah, McLaren aren't just a chance of

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Speaker 2: the World Championship. I think McLaren have to be favorites

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Speaker 2: now for the World Championship, don't they.

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Speaker 1: It's McLaren's to lose. I think this point because thirty

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Speaker 1: thirty points in the Constructors Championship is so little. In

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Speaker 1: a driver's championship it would be still significant but achievable,

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Speaker 1: but in the Constructors title it's well within the points

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Speaker 1: scored for one weekend. You know, if red Bull has

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Speaker 1: a shocker like I'd have to do the mats on this.

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Speaker 1: But with a repeated to Australian Grand pre weekend where

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Speaker 1: one car retires and I think Perry's fifth or thereabouts

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Speaker 1: in Australia, and McLaren performs like I did this weekend,

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Speaker 1: it'd be over. You know, we'd already see the swing

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Speaker 1: in McLaren's favor in a point set.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, well, Red Bull scored ten points in Australia, so.

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Speaker 1: There you go. You know, it's comfortably then within range

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Speaker 1: of a one to two finish. Overhauling that performance, overhauling

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Speaker 1: that score aren't there. So with nine races still to go,

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Speaker 1: I think at this point it would take quite a

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Speaker 1: shocking dip in form by McLaren to not win this title.

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Speaker 1: Even if we say that Red Bull can win several

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Speaker 1: more races this year, which I'm sure it can. There

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Speaker 1: are some Red Bull circuits coming up, although Zandword was

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Speaker 1: very much a Red Bull circuit based on past experience,

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Speaker 1: so maybe maybe there aren't. But even if it's closer

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Speaker 1: for the rest of the year, it would have to

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Speaker 1: take a massive misreading by everyone on how good McLaren is.

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Speaker 1: That is to say, even if they're just equal to

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Speaker 1: Red Bull, it would still go this way for them

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Speaker 1: not to win the Constructor's title. So there's pressure on there.

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Speaker 1: I guess to get it done because they're still in

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Speaker 1: the lead, but it feels like it's very much swinging

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Speaker 1: in that direction. I thought it was interesting you say,

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Speaker 1: the full momentum swing is now complete, and there's this

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Speaker 1: great symmetry to the fact the previous largest winning margin

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Speaker 1: was Bahrain, the first race of the season, and it

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Speaker 1: was about twenty two seconds. I think it was twenty

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Speaker 1: two point I'm not going to just.

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Speaker 2: Say six two two point four.

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Speaker 1: I think there you go, so only hardly anything less

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Speaker 1: practically the same, and it just makes you realize, obviously,

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Speaker 1: race winning margins a fact, so many factors go into them,

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Speaker 1: like you say, this was a totally normal race. Yellow flags, whatever,

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Speaker 1: safety cars can affect them. But there's this wonderful symmetry

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Speaker 1: that actually it's almost like we've reversed the entire performance

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Speaker 1: picture of the first fourteen races, and from McLaren the

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Speaker 1: season starts now in a weird way and I think, actually,

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Speaker 1: they'll probably still in the Constructors Championship from here. This was,

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Speaker 1: in Helmut Marco's words, alarming as a result, because red

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Speaker 1: Bull was just never really in it, not in the

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Speaker 1: battle for pole, not in the battle for victory, Lando.

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Speaker 1: Norris's advantage ended up being more than four tenths of

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Speaker 1: a second per lap in the race, which was more

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Speaker 1: than his pole margin over Max with Staff and so

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Speaker 1: it's pretty significant. And he said specifically to Autosport that

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Speaker 1: not just a constructor's championship, but the drivers' championship is

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Speaker 1: now at risk. And that's a fairly big plaim because

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Speaker 1: there's a seventy point gap still between Max with Staffan

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Speaker 1: and Lando Norris came down eight points because Norris took

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Speaker 1: the cheeky point for fastest lap on the final tour

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Speaker 1: without asking the team, But that just did underline how

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Speaker 1: fast that car was on forty four lap old hard tires. Matt,

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Speaker 1: it would require an almost perfect rest of the season.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I'm just going to call it a perfect

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Speaker 1: rest of the season. It requires a win at every

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Speaker 1: race in every sprint and four extra points for fastest

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Speaker 1: lap for him to even just tie on points I

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Speaker 1: think in Abu Dhabi, and then he'd win on count

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Speaker 1: back if he won. Obviously the last line races of

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Speaker 1: the season.

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Speaker 2: Who doesn't love a controversial phinale.

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Speaker 1: Don't say it, Matt, I don't want that. Do you

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Speaker 1: put any stock in that like is the Driver's Championship?

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Speaker 1: Is it too much to say it is at risk

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Speaker 1: or under threat? Obviously the points gap did close this

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Speaker 1: weekend and it could continue closing the rest of the seasons.

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Speaker 1: We say, is Max for staff and do you think

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Speaker 1: any part of him even a little bit worried?

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Speaker 2: Not yet, but there is absolutely potential for that to change,

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Speaker 2: just based on the points structure. Now it can change

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Speaker 2: very quickly because it's twenty five points for a race win.

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Speaker 2: So let's say hypothetically MAX retizes from the next three

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Speaker 2: races and Lando wins. It wins those three, Max is

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Speaker 2: leading the World Championship, So this can swing around in

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Speaker 2: three races. Hypothetically, that's absolute worst case scenario for MAX,

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Speaker 2: and it seems unlikely that it will go that far.

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Speaker 2: But es potentially with seventy points, it would be the

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Speaker 2: biggest turnaround in World Championship history if that were the case.

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Speaker 2: But again that's a statistic that doesn't really mean anything

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Speaker 2: because we've had so many different points scores through these

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Speaker 2: I mean, the center of the nineteen eighty eight World

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Speaker 2: Championship having scored fewer points in La Prost. To give

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Speaker 2: you an idea of how bizarre. We've had point structures

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Speaker 2: over the years, so it's not currently under threat, but

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Speaker 2: we do still have nine races to go. You know,

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Speaker 2: seventy points in nine races, that's absolutely achievable. It depends

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Speaker 2: one how competitive Max is in terms of I guess

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Speaker 2: playing a defensive game, and he's going to start playing defensive,

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Speaker 2: doesn't he. You know, if you can take play defense

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Speaker 2: and defense like you did in Austria, then perhaps all

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Speaker 2: the better. But you know, he's got to start protecting

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Speaker 2: that lead and taking fewer risks because if you start

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Speaker 2: taking risks and collide with color Science or George Russell

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Speaker 2: or Lewis Hamilton, you know, someone who's not a direct

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Speaker 2: championship rval, all you're doing is costing yourself points. The

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Speaker 2: flip side to that is everyone else is going to

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Speaker 2: know that, so you can start taking advantage and taking

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Speaker 2: more risk against Max knowing that he's going to have

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Speaker 2: to jump out of the way a little bit. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be an interesting run home. I don't

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Speaker 2: think Lando Norris can yet do it. It's not to

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Speaker 2: say I don't think he can win a World championship ever,

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Speaker 2: I just don't think the maths this year that the

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Speaker 2: start of the season was too slow for McClair. If

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Speaker 2: he took the first three or four races out, then yeah,

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Speaker 2: Lando's absolutely a proper chance. I just think it's a

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Speaker 2: little bit too far away now. However, if the situation

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Speaker 2: called for it, and I was in Andreia Steller's shoes,

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Speaker 2: I would now start using Oscar pstre He's forty points,

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Speaker 2: forty six points back from Lando, he's out of driver

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Speaker 2: championship contention's one hundred and sixteen points down, so he's

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Speaker 2: out of it, So park him. In terms of driver

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Speaker 2: championship ambitions, I think theyre pretty much were already focus

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Speaker 2: on the constructors Championship, and if there's the odd occasion

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Speaker 2: where swapping positions helps Lando, then sorry, Oscar, you got

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Speaker 2: to play the team game. Let's do that as well,

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Speaker 2: because with that you can do other things in terms

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Speaker 2: of sponsors and all sorts of other income that because

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Speaker 2: that's the prestigious one. The constructor's championships, great's where you

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Speaker 2: get prize money, but the Driver's Championship is the one

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Speaker 2: that gets the prestige, the headlines, everything else, and that's

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Speaker 2: what you can sell to sponsors. So it's a long shot,

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Speaker 2: but if McLaren plays the team game, I think they

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Speaker 2: can increase their odds.

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Speaker 1: The difference between them is that despite it being a

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Speaker 1: long shot, for Lando Norris, it is still within his hands.

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Speaker 1: He does go out and win every race and every

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Speaker 1: sprint and take points with fastest lab he can win it.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't need to rely on max with Staffan's results,

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Speaker 1: where his oscar would. He's too far behind to do

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Speaker 1: it all off his own bats. So I think that

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Speaker 1: there is now Then that might have been the difference

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Speaker 1: in Hungary, I'd have to go back and do the mats.

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Speaker 1: But in Hungary the odds just seemed less in McLaren's

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Speaker 1: favor because the performance wing seemed less clear. But now

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Speaker 1: five races in a row, Red Bull hasn't been able

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Speaker 1: to win a Grand Prix. McLaren has this upgrade they

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Speaker 1: brought this weekend. It seems to have taken a nice

403
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Speaker 1: step forward. They've already built it as the only performance

404
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Speaker 1: upgrades since Miami, so all the upgrades in between have

405
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Speaker 1: just been about fine tuning. This has actually been about

406
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Speaker 1: out targeting a step forward and lo and behold, a

407
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Speaker 1: team wins by a lot. Now that margin is not

408
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Speaker 1: going to be all about the upgrade, but the upgrade

409
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Speaker 1: will have played a part in it. And if we

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Speaker 1: do get to the next races and it turns out

411
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Speaker 1: McLaren is now just the team to beat, well, suddenly

412
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Speaker 1: that does become possible. And I liked that Andrea Stella

413
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Speaker 1: said after the race that it has been done before,

414
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Speaker 1: so that should Betel closed the twenty thirteen season by

415
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Speaker 1: winning all nine races in a row after the mid

416
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Speaker 1: season break, which is exactly what Lando Norris needs to do. Now.

417
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Speaker 1: Betal was already ahead of the championship, already had the

418
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Speaker 1: fastest car. But if we do consider that McLaren may

419
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Speaker 1: now have the fastest car, well, then suddenly doesn't seem crazy.

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Speaker 1: And I do note there's a wonderful coincidence that Bettel

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Speaker 1: got four fastest laps in the second half of the season,

422
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Speaker 1: exactly got exactly the result. How many sprint wins, Yeah,

423
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Speaker 1: unfortunately didn't get it, lost all the sprints. A really

424
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Speaker 1: dropped the ball on the short.

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Speaker 2: Races for a brilliant's career as as he had. And

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Speaker 2: this is a massive grape I've got against all the grades,

427
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Speaker 2: show fan jo Ascari Clark Stuart Center Schumacher. None of

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Speaker 2: them between them have scored as many sprint winds as

429
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Speaker 2: makes the stuff, and so it's clearly as the goat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean oliven Oscar has more sprint wins that

431
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 1: Zenna lifts cos of f one do better. I think

432
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: there is something interesting in that. I think as well

433
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:19,919
Speaker 1: the fact that, I mean, that's something that they are

434
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 1: now willing to think about is kind of interesting as well,

435
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: that they're allowing themselves not to target it, because obviously

436
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: that would be risky psychologically, I think when the bar

437
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 1: is so high, but to say, well, if we do

438
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 1: get everything right, then that is possible. Then we consider

439
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 1: the fact, like you say, it may not even need

440
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 1: three DNFs for Max to make it more realistic. Even

441
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: one would suddenly bring it down to less than two

442
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 1: race victories, and all of a sudden it becomes a

443
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 1: much more race by race prospect because all of a sudden,

444
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 1: Norris can afford to finish maybe second one weekend doesn't

445
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: need to be absolutely perfect, or the sprints don't need

446
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 1: to be nailed, or the fastest laps aren't required. So

447
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,719
Speaker 1: that's kind of interesting. And then you consider, well, Mersages

448
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 1: had an off weekend. I don't think anyone expects them

449
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: to be as far off the pace they wear this

450
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 1: weekend in future round. If they can get between that gap,

451
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 1: that may be significant between McLaren and Red Bull Racing.

452
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 1: Suddenly it's not a matter of winning every race with

453
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: Max and standing second. You can gain way more ground

454
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: and then Ferrari they always seem to turn up in Monzo,

455
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,199
Speaker 1: could make a difference there. So there are lots of

456
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 1: elements in a season as close and as unpredictable as

457
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 1: this that can still work in Norris's favor. Particularly, and

458
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: this is the point that needs to be underscored if

459
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: McLaren has a car that is now just the one

460
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: to beat at every track, because that is the first

461
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: step really to try and to win every race or

462
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 1: to get enough points overhaul this seventy point gap. So

463
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: it's going to be interesting to see. It is a

464
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 1: long shot, but it is alive.

465
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, And throw into the mix a little bit of

466
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: wildcard from Oscar, potentially bumping Max back a place or two,

467
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 2: and suddenly those five or three or whatever point margins

468
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 2: between positions get a little bit elongated and the gap

469
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 2: comes down a little bit more quickly than it might

470
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 2: have otherwise. So one two is from a plan right

471
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 2: now will be very, very powerful in both championships.

472
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 1: Let's move on now to some other stories from the

473
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 1: Dutch Grand Prix. We've mentioned Oscar Piastre wasn't quite on

474
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: Landon Norris's level this weekend, but really his race was

475
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: compromised by traffic, and this sort of speaks to two things. Really, One,

476
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: it is harder to pass at Zandvort than maybe we

477
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 1: would have thought judged him by how quickly Lando Norris

478
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: passed Max Withstaffan, but also speaks to the fact that

479
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 1: Red Bull didn't really nail it's set up this weekend.

480
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 1: The Staffan was caring a lot of drag which made

481
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 1: him super easy to pass in a straight line, whereas

482
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: George Russell was configured in a regular way which made

483
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,919
Speaker 1: him much more difficult to pass. But I want to

484
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: start with actually the Red Bull angle on this and

485
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 1: talk about Sergio Perez, because as we've been billing for months,

486
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: he remains under question at Red Bull Racing, as does

487
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: Daniel Ricardo, who will talk about in just a second.

488
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: This was a more steady performance for Sergio Perez, so

489
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: he didn't have any of the low lights of crashing

490
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 1: out in Q one, for example, or really terrible race pace,

491
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: but did come painfully close to being last in class,

492
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 1: finished only ahead of the Mercedes drivers among the front runners,

493
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: and that was partly gifted to him by the fact

494
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 1: that George Russell made this strange second stop because he'd

495
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: been over using his tires. I think even if he'd

496
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: been over using his tires, he probably didn't need to

497
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 1: make the second stop. But me said he says he does.

498
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: And Lewis Hamilton, of course, was knocked out in Q

499
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: two in a pretty unpregertable qualifying session. We're one race

500
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 1: in and I'm always cautious about doing this absolutely race

501
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 1: by race because it's going to be a bigger picture

502
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: that decides ultimately what happens with Sergio Perez. But this

503
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: first race back after everything that happened over the mid

504
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: season breakover all the talk and speculation, what was your

505
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 1: read of his weekend?

506
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,719
Speaker 2: It was an interesting one because there's two ways of

507
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 2: looking at it. The first and perhaps more optimistic way

508
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: is to look at it and realistically before the race.

509
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 2: We can only look at FP two because FP one

510
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: was mixed conditions. FP three was effectively canceled after Sarge

511
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 2: and threw at the scenery, and in that session in

512
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 2: free practice too, Sergio Perez was eight tenths off the

513
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: fastest lap, six tenths slower the max of Staff, and

514
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: if you translate that into the race, he was seventeen

515
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 2: or nineteen seconds by. He was effectively a pit stop

516
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: behind his teammate, and as you say, almost worst in

517
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 2: class in that you know, the only of Mercedes, and

518
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 2: the Mercedes were unusually poor by their own recent form

519
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 2: in Zandvort. Conversely, Ferrari was surprisingly competitive by their own

520
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: form in Zaandvort, So that's an unusual one in itself.

521
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 2: But you know, realistically Sergio should have been fifth or

522
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: realistically fourth, with Piastre perhaps third, those two ahead of

523
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: the two Ferraris. So Ferrari overperformed, Mercedes underformed, and by

524
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 2: that margin, I think you've got to say that Sergio

525
00:25:55,560 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: again underperformed. You can't afford to be seventeen seconds back

526
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 2: from your teammate when you're in this competitive championship, right,

527
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 2: I say that well in the knowledge that Oscar Piastre

528
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: was twenty seven seconds back from his teammate, and I

529
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 2: don't think that was good enough. There were mitigating circumstances there,

530
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: but ultimately he was the master of his own demise.

531
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 2: He wasn't good enough in qualifying. That put him slightly

532
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 2: out of position. He had a poor start that complicated that,

533
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: and I've ultimately dictated his race. Sergio Perez in the

534
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 2: same token, in the same vein Rather, he didn't qualify

535
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 2: well enough. He was only fifth. So to qualify fifth

536
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: and finish sixth's that's not good enough. Max started second

537
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,719
Speaker 2: to finish second, you know, that's the minimum you would expect,

538
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 2: just a whole, steady, whole position where you work by

539
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 2: the same token oscopiastri if you started third finish fourth,

540
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 2: So that wasn't good enough. I do feel like I'm

541
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 2: being harsh, But when you're talk talking about the best

542
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 2: teams in the World Championship, we should arguably talking about

543
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 2: probably the drivers that are within the top half dozen

544
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 2: in the sport. I'm not going to say the top four,

545
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: because you know that's a do it to service to

546
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 2: the likes of Charlat Clair and Lewis Hamilton, those sorts

547
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 2: of guys. But these these are the very best in

548
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 2: their game and they're getting absolutely battered by their teammate,

549
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 2: particularly Sergio Perez. Again, Oscar, you can put that to

550
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: one side because there was MIDI game circumstances there, but

551
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 2: that Sergio, I mean, how long it's been going on

552
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: the problem is as well, who do you replace him with?

553
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 2: Who do you put in that car and confidently say,

554
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 2: if we had X in that car in Zandvoort, they'd

555
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 2: have finished fifth or fourth or third behind Max. There's

556
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: no one.

557
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: That is the big question for it will really, isn't it?

558
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: Just before I explore that, I just want to I

559
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: think the big compare Usinvosko Piastre is a good and

560
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: interesting one that some people will point to. I think

561
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: the difference between them was that Piastre was engaged for

562
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: the entire race in this battle for third with Leclaire

563
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: and with Russell, and finished just behind Leclair like he

564
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: lost out in that battle the gap to Lando Nicks.

565
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: There are reasons why it was so large, but he

566
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: was always battling forwards, whereas Sergio Perez finished behind. I

567
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: think it is the damning part Carlos Science who started

568
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: tenth on the grid, so five places behind him, came

569
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: painfully close to finishing behind George Russell, who did start

570
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: ahead of him fine, but then was only ten seconds

571
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: or less than ten seconds ahead of Lewis Hamilton, who

572
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: started even further back in fourteenth. And I think you

573
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: can just see over the course of a race story.

574
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: Of course, there are gaps to teammates and things, but

575
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: there is also the movement of the driver in an

576
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: overall race time sense up or down the field, and

577
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: consistently we see similar to in Belgium where okay, he

578
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: still finished in that top eight cars, just didn't finish

579
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: way out of points or anything, but the movement of

580
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: his car was just backwards through the race. And I

581
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: think that is the problem because then you get races

582
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: when Mercedes will turn up as they probably will this weekend,

583
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: and suddenly there's no buffer. He'll just be finishing eighth

584
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: and that's not going to be enough points, as you said.

585
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: But to come back to that driver market question, that

586
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: driver rotation question for Red Bull this weekend started with

587
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: an interesting storyline being that Helmet Marco, who is not

588
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: supposed to be a spokesperson for the Red Bull program,

589
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: but he does like to speak for the Red Bull program.

590
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: Speaking to the Austrian media, climbs a tool the Gratz newspaper.

591
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: I think it is said the line that Liam Lawson

592
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: will definitely be in one of our cars next year.

593
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: Now that surprising. That seems like the way it's been

594
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: going for most of the year. But this is the

595
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: first time someone at red Bull has actually said it.

596
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: Even only a couple of weeks ago, Marco only said, oh,

597
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: you'll see in September. It wasn't as definitive as this.

598
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: This was a definitive statement, which obviously puts Daniel Ricardo

599
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: most on notice because he's the only driver currently without

600
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: a contract in that stable. But obviously, in the context

601
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: for everything we've said, Sergio Perry's is also under threat

602
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: here too. He's not secure at the end of the

603
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,959
Speaker 1: year despite having a contract. Fast forward to the end

604
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: of Friday, after FP two, Christian Horner gives an interview

605
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: to Sports where he says, and I did references and

606
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: start the show. No, no, no, Helmut did not say

607
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: one of our teams. He said a team. It could

608
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: be any team, which I did enjoy. It's very Lionel

609
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: Huts move. But he gave it a good crack and

610
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: I guess it. I guess it kind of worked and

611
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but it does turn out, of course

612
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: that Liam Lwson have already talked about could be in

613
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: the frame below. To Williams, seems like maybe that's not

614
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: the favorite option, but I guess that was on the

615
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: cards potentially. It just underlines a couple of things for me. One,

616
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: as you say, absolutely, there just seems to be a

617
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,959
Speaker 1: lack of clarity on what the team wants to do

618
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: with all of its drivers. It's not a clear option.

619
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: That's fine. I guess we have the course of a

620
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: season to figure that out. It doesn't have to be

621
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: decided right now. Although there is a deadline on Liam

622
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: Lawson's contact in September, though arguably is he going to

623
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: go if you don't meet that deadline. So there's a

624
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: bit of that as well. But then there is also

625
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: this added element of different parts of the Red Bull

626
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: program pulling in different directions. There's obviously no doubt the

627
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: Helbert Marco is backing to young drivers because that's always

628
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: been his remit being the head of the Red Bull

629
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: June Your team, and Lim Lawson's one of them. But

630
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: then there's Christian Horner, who obviously wants his say in

631
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: the overall things, being the team principal of the Red

632
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: Bull Racing Team, the senior team. Are we only clearer

633
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: to really knowing how any of this is going to go, Matt,

634
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: because I think, as I've been saying for months, it's

635
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: extremely difficult to read, and this weekend, I mean, considering

636
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: everything that all the chief players said, seems to matter

637
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: any more complicated.

638
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 2: The simple answer to that question is no. Basically, it's

639
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 2: interesting if you really stop and think about this, you

640
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: look at all the players in this game, who's the

641
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: one that's got the most power. I argue it's Liam

642
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 2: Lawson because if Liam goes elsewhere, and you know, by

643
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: mid September, he's potentially got the contractual ability to do that.

644
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: If he goes elsewhere, what does Red Bull have. Let's

645
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: spin this out beyond even next year. Let's spin this

646
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 2: out five years. Five years time will Max for stuff

647
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: and be there maybe maybe not? Probably not Realistically, If

648
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 2: he said he's already halfway through his career, or more

649
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: than halfway through his career, potentially he'll have already retired.

650
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: So Jo Perry certainly won't be there. Daniel Ricardo certainly

651
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,479
Speaker 2: won't be their Uki Sonoda certainly won't be there. So

652
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: in five years time, of the current fleet of youngsters

653
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: or fleet of drivers that Red Buller's got, Liam Lawson

654
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: is the most logical one to be there for any

655
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 2: sort of period of time beyond him, Isaac Hajar or

656
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: some of the real juniors. So you're not just talking

657
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 2: about the immediate future here, you're talking longer term stability

658
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: in Red Bulls program. Who is someone that you can

659
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: start to build the program around because they're in this

660
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: transitional phase. It does happen every now and then with

661
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,719
Speaker 2: Red Bulls programs the way, but this seems to be

662
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 2: somewhat more chaotic or urgent than it's been in the past.

663
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: So I argue that Liam Lawson has the most power

664
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: in that because if he decides that he just doesn't

665
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: want to drive, I don't know if he can and

666
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: refuse a Red Bull drive in his contract. And by

667
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 2: Red Bull Drive, I'm referring to Red Bull Racing or RB.

668
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 2: All Red bull drivers have a contract with Red Bull

669
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: Racing and then a loaned out to RB. I argue

670
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 2: that Liam is in a really, really powerful position in

671
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: this conversation. Now, Helmet Marko is the man I understand

672
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 2: that makes the driver discussions decisions. Rather once upon a

673
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: time that was a discussion with Dietrich manerships. Obviously he's

674
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 2: no longer there, so now he deals with a couple

675
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 2: of people in Red Bulls management. There's three streams to

676
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 2: the business as the drinks business, in investments business, and

677
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: there's another business there that I can't remember. There's effectively

678
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: four people that are part of a panel that make

679
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: driver decisions. Christian Horner isn't part of that. I guess

680
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 2: Christian's job is, you know, he's got this pool of drivers,

681
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: he puts them where he wants, be that Rebel Racing

682
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: or RB. That's my understanding. I could be wrong, but

683
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 2: that's my understanding from a couple of conversations I've had

684
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 2: with people connected in and around, not specifically Christian or Helmet,

685
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: but people in and around that program who have first

686
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: hand experience of it and recent first hand experience of it. So, yeah,

687
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 2: it's a fascinating scenario because Red Bull is going to

688
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: lose a Constructors Championship and more the point, Sergio Perrys

689
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 2: is going to lose a Constructors championship for Red Bull.

690
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 2: The underlying argument there is that Rebel didn't develop a

691
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: fast enough car, but at the same time it didn't

692
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: employ a fast enough driver. So who do you replace

693
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 2: him with? As I touched on before, who can you

694
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: put into that car and confidently say they're going to

695
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: go faster? I maintain that Daniel Ricardo. Putting him in

696
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 2: that car there's potentially higher highs, but I think on

697
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 2: average at the moment he's probably a little bit below

698
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 2: where Sergio Perez is and as a result, that's a

699
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: massive gamble. You're potentially going to you potentially lose a

700
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 2: championship anyway, but you may hasten that loss and exaggerate

701
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 2: that loss by promoting him. He's a bigger risk than

702
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 2: staying where they are putting Lewis Liam Lawson into that seat.

703
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 2: You're putting a kid who's got five Grand Prix to

704
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 2: his name, and he might prove to be a Grand

705
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 2: Prix winner and as good as maximstaf or so Jo

706
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 2: Perez a Sebastian Vettel in time, but as we're seeing

707
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 2: with Oscar PSD, even the brightest young stars need time.

708
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: As a result, putting him into that Rebell probably not

709
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 2: going to be as good as Sergio peis, and at

710
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 2: the same time, you're heaping so much pressure on him,

711
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: you're basically promoting him and saying, god on, win us

712
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: the World Championship. If you don't, you failed, And that's

713
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: a hell of an ask, even for Red Bull. That's

714
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 2: that's more brutal than I think Red buller. So, yeah,

715
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 2: they're kind of stuck, aren't they. Okay, we know Sergio

716
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 2: isn't guaranteed to the end of the year, but effectively

717
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: is because there's no better option out there. There really isn't.

718
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: I think the best outcome for Red Bull actually is

719
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: to lose control of the constructors standings in September or

720
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 1: whenever soon, because I do feel like once that happens,

721
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: the pressures off, isn't it Like if.

722
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 2: You're already control, they've already lost control.

723
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: Well they have, But when the number actually ticks over, right,

724
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: Like when the number actually ticks over and Red Bull

725
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: is no longer for the first time since twenty twenty

726
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: two whatever it was, no longer at the top of

727
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: the Constructors Championship, then the pressure is off because whether

728
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: or not you keep surge paiers doesn't matter. If the

729
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: constructor champion is over, you know you've lost control of

730
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: those points. You may as well put in Daniel Ricardo.

731
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: Therefore you can put in Liam Lawson at RB, and therefore,

732
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: if Ricardo doesn't impress, Lawson has another half season of

733
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: experience to put into Red Bull Racing, then you can

734
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: put Hadjar into RB and suddenly that logjam you talk to,

735
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: or that potential blockage is just alleviated, and suddenly the

736
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 1: Red Bull program is flowing again. But this paralysis, this inaction,

737
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: just means that potentially the team loses everything by the

738
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 1: end of the year. It loses control of its drivers

739
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: as well as the championship, maybe even the driver's championship.

740
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: Who knows, bax of Staffan could walk in another year.

741
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: It all goes wrong. Sometimes it's better to just make

742
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: a decision than to let the whole thing languish and

743
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: let it fall out of control, fall it out of

744
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: your grasp. So I do wonder whether that's something that's

745
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: being talked about for me. This race didn't seem massively

746
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,280
Speaker 1: different to the ones before the mid season break. Daniel

747
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 1: Carter didn't have a great qualifying, had a pretty good race,

748
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: Yukisonoda had a bad strategy, maybe you would have finished ahead.

749
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: But Ricardo's pace was pretty good anyway and was in

750
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: contingent for a point at the very end, and the

751
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: weekend at RB wasn't really a top ten car, So

752
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: the picture for me days pretty much the same. Nothing

753
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: much changed at the Dutch Grand Prix, so it'll be

754
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: interesting to see this evolve. But as we say, the

755
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: deadline feels like it's a four race kind of thing,

756
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: so it'll be certainly something to revisit as we head

757
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: towards Singapore. Matt, before we wrap this up, it is time,

758
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 1: of course, the alternative Championship. We haven't been doing during

759
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: Jack doing special obviously because he'd have got all the

760
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: points for us. But it is evolving week by week.

761
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: It've lost all the points, let's be we tend to

762
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: take them away more than we give them.

763
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: That's true. This is a very negative championship, but it

764
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 1: could change over time. You know, it's up to the people,

765
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: not to us. It's up to the people in the

766
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: championship to do positive things if they want more points. Matt,

767
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: I'll let you start this week. Who's leading the way

768
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: for you on the Championship scale.

769
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 2: Well, given that we're just talking about positivity, I'm glad

770
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 2: you brought that up because I'm going to start with

771
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 2: a negative, and it is a negative. But I think

772
00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 2: I've been very soft, however you want to describe it.

773
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 2: I was very inclined to take three million points off

774
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 2: because that's roughly the amount of damage dollar value that

775
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 2: Logan Sergeant has done for Williams this year. So I

776
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 2: was tempted to dop Logan Sergeant three million points, especially racing. Well, yeah,

777
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean he's got to Wednesday to call

778
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: it that mad look in the ends. I didn't go

779
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: to that extreme because I thought that was a bit

780
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 2: that was a bit ridiculous. I have docked him thirty

781
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 2: seven points because that's his tenure in Formula one. I

782
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: don't think he's lived up to expectations. So yeah, I've

783
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 2: given Logan Sergeant minus thirty seven points, mostly for his

784
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 2: crash in in pre practicery because that's okay. I get

785
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 2: the conditions are tricky, but you're racing in Formula one. Mate,

786
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 2: you drove over some wet grass. Of course you're going

787
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,240
Speaker 2: to get speared at the wall on the other side.

788
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 2: But that was just an inexcusable driver error in a

789
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 2: session where you shouldn't have been taking risk.

790
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: Especially FP three, knowing that puts pressure on qualifying as

791
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: it did, and he didn't enter it, not to mention

792
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: it was carrying a car fully upgraded after the mid

793
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: season break, so you can understand where.

794
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 2: Were illegally upgraded as well. So maybe he's saved some

795
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 2: more blushes.

796
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 1: Well, he has it turned out, so maybe for the best.

797
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: Otherwise it would have been a double disqualification, would even

798
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: even more embarrassed. I don't know, equally embarrassed. But I'm also.

799
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:28,479
Speaker 2: The points in that one.

800
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm also taking points off fifty points off Christian

801
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: Horner for his defensive combative interview with Sky Supports in

802
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 1: F one. So that's one in which he attempted to

803
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: rephrase Helmet Marco's own words, which were written down in print.

804
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: I guess that either means he's casting doubt on the

805
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: newspaper to whom Helmer Marco talks regularly, so I think

806
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 1: it's unlikely that they've taken out of context, or of course,

807
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: is just trying to rewrite the narrative he had to go.

808
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: I didn't like his performance in that interview. Generally, I

809
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: thought he didn't respond that well to some pretty good questions,

810
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 1: in particular for Bernie Collins, who essentially asked, what's happened

811
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: to your team, Christian, and he didn't really like that.

812
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: I just didn't think at a time the team is

813
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: under some pressure, regardless of whether it's all the off

814
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: track stuff that he doesn't want to talk about or

815
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: even just the on track stuff. Didn't think he responded

816
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 1: that well. I guess the helmet mark was a different

817
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: part of it, but I just thought the way he

818
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: tried to walk that one back was worthy of some

819
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: points off.

820
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 2: I wish I'd thought of that because I would have

821
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 2: actually given some points to Sky there, because that's one

822
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 2: of the most awkward nieces of television I've seen this year.

823
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 2: If you can go and find that interview, it was

824
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 2: after two go to KO.

825
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: I can absolutely recommend to open your KO Sports. Yeah,

826
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: it was after it.

827
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: It was cringe worthy and it went on much longer

828
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:49,919
Speaker 2: than it felt like. It was great. It was great.

829
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 2: I genuinely enjoyed that. Yeah, it's sort of a little

830
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 2: bit faulty towers about it, wasn't it? You watch it

831
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 2: because it's cringe worthy, I think as well.

832
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 1: Anytime someone being grilled just tries to ask the question

833
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 1: back to the interviewer, they've lost the interview. Yes, like

834
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: you're out of answers.

835
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 2: So yeah, absolutely, And I'd also just like to point

836
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: out that their their comps manager wasn't in Zaandvort.

837
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: Oh there you go.

838
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 2: Maybe it wasn't briefed.

839
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: Well, clearly he needs his concept.

840
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, some stories there, all right. Next, I'm going

841
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 2: to I'm going to take some more points off because

842
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: that's just the way we roll. I'm going to take

843
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 2: twenty four points off, hass because that's the number of

844
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 2: hours they were late leaving leaving Zandvort. I don't think

845
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 2: we need to take the full nine million off them.

846
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,720
Speaker 1: Like to take the nine million points if you convert

847
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: them to Australian points even.

848
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: More, well, we're gonna have to run a conversion on

849
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: this championship. Yeah. Ultimately they got caught out a little bit.

850
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 2: It was a little bit embarrassing. I don't feel too

851
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 2: bad for you. Actually, I'm going to be definitely honest

852
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: with you. But yeah, anytime you have bailiffs turning up

853
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: in Formula one, a great story. It happens in Melbourne

854
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 2: one year with sober if memories.

855
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: It was I think it was. It was during the

856
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: Guido Vanderguard Mounicia Carldenborn era. Yes, but it was I

857
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: think it was bailiffs that wanted to make sure no

858
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: one else drove the car because it was a petitioned

859
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: by Guido Vanderguard saying he had a contractive memory serve.

860
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and as a result that car sat out or

861
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 2: maybe all of the today. Yeah, but yeah, I mean

862
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 2: that's a few years ago now and that team is yep,

863
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 2: come on, since.

864
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 1: Then, and the rare honor of making the Victorian Supreme

865
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: Courts hit on a weekend, no public holiday even I

866
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 1: think you know memory.

867
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 2: So yeah, twenty four points off for has for a

868
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 2: little bit of egg on face.

869
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: That's fair. I think that's fair. I'm taking twenty points

870
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: off relatively arbitrary number, but I've wanted to take these

871
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: points off for a while. Off Toto Wolf for constantly

872
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: for the last eighteen months claiming the teams would be

873
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: silly to pass up the opportunity to sign Mick Schumacher,

874
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: despite having at his own team a seat open and

875
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: not signing Mick Schumacher, who's already the team's reserve driver.

876
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: I think he's warranted these points off for a while.

877
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 1: Mick Schumacher may get this bonus opportunity to race Williams

878
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: for nine rounds, but unfortunately Williams already has all its

879
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: drivers for next year, so it's not going to be

880
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: a full time drive. He's over in Wek with Elpine.

881
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,800
Speaker 1: But it just at some point it just strikes you

882
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: as disingenuous, doesn't it.

883
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: Well, Mick Schumacher, a driver so highly thought of the Alpine,

884
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 2: opted from Jack Doing, and when given a chance for

885
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: a substitute, Williams wanted Liam Lawson first. Yeah, I'm sorry.

886
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 2: That tells you everything you need to know. I think

887
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 2: about Mick Schumacher, colin driver in World Endurance Championship, far

888
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: better driver than I'll ever be. But it's just not

889
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 2: up to scratch in formulae. I think it's kind of

890
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 2: that simple.

891
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: I've always been just I mean, I want I always

892
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: want to say this every time we talk. I do

893
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: think he deserved a better shot at F one he

894
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 1: had he shot, and I'm willing to Like you know,

895
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: it's not easy to stay informed on That's part of

896
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 1: the game. I think everything that we know about HASS,

897
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 1: particularly since Iyokamatso has come to power at that team,

898
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: and it does feel like it's a little bit more cohesive.

899
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: I think racing at HASS, particularly in the ear he

900
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: did the Nikkida Masaben era, the no money era, I

901
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: don't think he had his best opportunity to show what

902
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: he was capable of. But by that same token, I

903
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: don't think there's any reason to think he necessarily deserves

904
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:28,959
Speaker 1: the seed over anyone else.

905
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you've got to earn it on merit, and

906
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 2: there are others who are more more deserving. I think

907
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 2: quite negative, really haven't. Let's my last pick. I'm actually

908
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: going to go a positive. I'm going to give fifteen

909
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 2: points to to charl Leclair because I think he had

910
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 2: a cracking race in in xample. He drove well, arguably

911
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 2: outperformed the car, did well to keep the much faster

912
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 2: McLaren behind him, and at no point was under sort

913
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 2: of significant pressure. So just a good, calm composed drive

914
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 2: somewhat unexpectedly so, Yeah, fifteen points for Charlotte Clay, which

915
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,720
Speaker 2: places him surprisingly high on the championship table.

916
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: It really speaks to not how we're handing out the points,

917
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: doesn't it Now I'm struggling with the number for this

918
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 1: last one, but I'm going to go with ten just

919
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: because it's a nice round number and it's also a

920
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 1: positive one. I'm going to give ten points to valtrie Botass,

921
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,720
Speaker 1: not for any particular action, just because he drives for Sauber,

922
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: which is no good had its worst weekend of the year.

923
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: Qualified two and a half seconds off the pace in

924
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: qualifying and Baltrie Botas. I have to go back and

925
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: check the numbers. But at one point in the race,

926
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: late in the race, I looked at timing charts, he

927
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: was sixteen seconds off the back of the pack. I

928
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: think Joe Brannu was thirty seconds behind him. And that's

929
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 1: no judgment on these drivers. This is the state of

930
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: the future Audi car three Botasters is better than that.

931
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: He's a multiple race win, a multiple pole and podium ghetto.

932
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: He wasn't a SADES driver as well, contributed to the

933
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: championships there. I thought he was onto a good thing

934
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: when he switched to Alpha Romeo that first season the

935
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: new rules. Look back, things were going up. Now he's

936
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: only hope of staying in form of the one is

937
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,760
Speaker 1: to commit to this team for another year of finishing last.

938
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: I think ten points he deserves. It will move him

939
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: up in the actual championship only a few places. But

940
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: I just felt bad for him this weekend because I

941
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: just found myself thinking he's better than this.

942
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 2: I mean that the hair cut alone is worth ten

943
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 2: points on a quiet week. I think I'm going to

944
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 2: give him ten points for a heck, so if you

945
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 2: if I ever give Voutrie Botas ten points just for

946
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 2: some random you know, I've scraped the bottom of the barrel,

947
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 2: as we do so often with this alternative champions Yeah,

948
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 2: I like that. I like that's that's a that's fair.

949
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 2: He's third in the championship. Now he finished second. Did

950
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 2: you see that? Did you see he finished second on

951
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 2: the week?

952
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: Yes?

953
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 2: I did so.

954
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: We've already taken points off the graphics department at F one,

955
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: I think, so don't need any wrong points off now

956
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:01,720
Speaker 1: be somewhere in probably in the middle.

957
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: They're just outside the top ten.

958
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 1: There you go. All right, Well, on that note, that's

959
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: all the time we have for Pittalk this week, but

960
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: we will be back next week. Trap up all the

961
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: action from the Italian Grand Prix. You can subscribe to

962
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 1: pittalk wherever you get your favorite podcasts, and leave us

963
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: a rating and review as well. While you're there, you

964
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 1: can also keep up to date with the latest one

965
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: news throughout the week and the round at Foxsports dot

966
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: com dot Au and Speedcafe dot Com. From Matt Castion

967
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: me Michael Lamonado. Thanks very much for your company. We'll

968
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: catch you next week.