Speaker 1: She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2: I'm tiff. This is Roll with the Punches and we're
Speaker 2: turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
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Speaker 2: Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Speaker 2: Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
Speaker 2: all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
Speaker 2: custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
Speaker 2: and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
Speaker 2: reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
Speaker 2: test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Meredithcarter, Welcome to Roll
Speaker 2: with the Punches.
Speaker 3: I'm so excited for a conversation.
Speaker 2: Me too, mate, So good to have you on though.
Speaker 2: Would you like to give a little intro to myself
Speaker 2: and the listeners as to how you describe who you
Speaker 2: are and what you do?
Speaker 3: Sure? My name is Meredith Carter. I think you dressed
Speaker 3: just said that, But i am an ADHD coach, creator, writer, speaker.
Speaker 3: I've been working in this space for about six years now.
Speaker 3: I started creating ADHD content a few years after my
Speaker 3: diagnosis and after really wanting to dive into the coaching
Speaker 3: world around ADHD and have spent the last couple of
Speaker 3: years just exploring that field and learning everything I could
Speaker 3: about the ADHD bring love it.
Speaker 2: What was your experience like going through the diagnosis process
Speaker 2: and all of that six years ago.
Speaker 3: It was quite interesting At this time. I'd already kind
Speaker 3: of self identified several years before that, so I've sort
Speaker 3: of known I likely had ADHD for almost a decade now.
Speaker 3: My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD, and during that process,
Speaker 3: that's when the light bulbs really started going off for me.
Speaker 3: But because I struggled so much with executive functions like
Speaker 3: planning and prioritizing, it just didn't feel that important to
Speaker 3: go through the process. And then when I decided to
Speaker 3: do it, I had a really hard time following through.
Speaker 3: Like I would identify some providers I wanted to work
Speaker 3: with for the assessment, I would leave messages, not get
Speaker 3: phone calls back, and then six months later I would
Speaker 3: be like, Oh, I really want to get on this again.
Speaker 3: So it took a while to really complete the process.
Speaker 3: Once I did get the appointment scheduled and go through
Speaker 3: that piece, I actually had a pretty good experience. I
Speaker 3: was a little bit terrified because I'd heard so many
Speaker 3: horror stories about called women not being believed that their
Speaker 3: struggles were as intense as they were. I've always been
Speaker 3: really good at masking my struggles and covering them up
Speaker 3: and appearing like I'm functioning, just flying to the world.
Speaker 3: So I had a lot of anxiety around would these
Speaker 3: providers really listen to me? But I did. I did
Speaker 3: find a pretty informed provider and was able to get
Speaker 3: those answers.
Speaker 2: And what was your outcome? What was what were you seeking?
Speaker 2: What was the path for you?
Speaker 3: You know, at that point, I had already been studying
Speaker 3: ADHD and really diving into the information so that I
Speaker 3: could help my daughter. I think at that point I
Speaker 3: was already interested in becoming an ADHD coach. I had
Speaker 3: worked with a coach, I had been kind of implementing
Speaker 3: the strategies and tips I was learning about already in
Speaker 3: my life and in my daughter's life. But I really
Speaker 3: felt like I needed that professional opinion if I was
Speaker 3: going to be working with people with ADHD. I also
Speaker 3: know that there's so many other things that can look
Speaker 3: like ADHD, so I wanted to rule those out to
Speaker 3: make sure I was attacking the difficulties I was having
Speaker 3: from the right angles.
Speaker 2: What are some of those things?
Speaker 3: You know, it's very common for women with ADHD to
Speaker 3: be struggling also with anxiety or depression. Oftentimes symptoms of
Speaker 3: trauma can look like ADHD symptoms, and oftentimes you're dealing
Speaker 3: with more than just ADHD. It can be an intersection
Speaker 3: of a lot of those things.
Speaker 2: How do we know? How do we know what the
Speaker 2: origin is?
Speaker 3: I think that's where working with a skilled provider is
Speaker 3: really important, because they're going to be able to not
Speaker 3: just look at one or two symptoms, but look at
Speaker 3: the collection of symptoms and hear your input and understand
Speaker 3: and from a clinical perspective how it's impacting you, and hopefully,
Speaker 3: if they are an informed provider, be able to also
Speaker 3: roll out or confirm what else is going on.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's changed over the six years? Well,
Speaker 2: what has changed? I should say I.
Speaker 3: Think a lot has changed. There really was this kind
Speaker 3: of space and time around the time of the pandemic
Speaker 3: where people were spending a lot more time on their phones.
Speaker 3: People that had been working in the ADHD space already,
Speaker 3: and advocacy and coaching began sharing information online in new ways.
Speaker 3: You saw people getting on Instagram and TikTok that probably
Speaker 3: wouldn't have earlier, Like me, I'm one of those people.
Speaker 3: I would have probably built like coaching practice in a
Speaker 3: more traditional way with more of a local focus, had
Speaker 3: the pandemic not happened. But people started just all of
Speaker 3: a sudden understanding more about ADHD. They were seeing themselves
Speaker 3: in this type of content, uh, and they were seeking answers.
Speaker 3: I think during that time it was also a time
Speaker 3: where people that had kind of learned how to accommodate
Speaker 3: themselves and learned a lot of coping strategies, whether they
Speaker 3: were the best coping strategies they could have learned or not,
Speaker 3: a lot of those things fell apart during the pandemic
Speaker 3: because you just didn't have access to them. So a
Speaker 3: lot of people were struggling even more than they were before.
Speaker 3: It was kind of the straw that broke the camel's
Speaker 3: back for a lot of people. So there was more
Speaker 3: demand for information, and you know, coaches and professionals met
Speaker 3: that demand. And during that time there's also been a
Speaker 3: lot of advocacy asking providers to to sharpen their skills
Speaker 3: around ADHD. There's not a lot of ADHD education that
Speaker 3: happens when someone is getting a degree to work with
Speaker 3: mental health, so oftentimes that means a provider has to
Speaker 3: seek that out on their own. And as providers, we're
Speaker 3: seeing more and more people coming in asking about ADHD
Speaker 3: a lot more strengthen their education as well.
Speaker 2: Sweet weed, isn't it? It is?
Speaker 3: Oftentimes I tect to clients and I don't want to
Speaker 3: scare anyone off from like ever seeking a professional opinion.
Speaker 3: But if they are lucky enough to have a skilled
Speaker 3: provider in their area that's like a specialist around ADHD,
Speaker 3: oftentimes they'll just seek answers from like their general practitioner
Speaker 3: or someone that's more of a generalist, and they'll say
Speaker 3: things like I felt like I knew more about ADHD
Speaker 3: than my doctor did. And that's really frustrating to hear,
Speaker 3: because it can be really tough to get answers and
Speaker 3: seek that and have the courage to ask for that
Speaker 3: professional opinion and then realize that perhaps that provider's information
Speaker 3: is outdated or just really not very deep.
Speaker 2: If people are seeking a diagnosis or some support and
Speaker 2: they're right at the beginning stage, what do you think,
Speaker 2: what are the red flags or the green flags in
Speaker 2: terms of finding good support, good understanding. How do we
Speaker 2: know that the person we're seeing is treating us no
Speaker 2: matter what their qualifications, without a lens of their own bias.
Speaker 3: Yeah, some of the rad flags I would say it
Speaker 3: would be if your provider says something like how did
Speaker 3: you know learn about ADHD? Or what makes you think
Speaker 3: you have ADHD? And if you share like I learned
Speaker 3: about it online or something like that, and they dismiss
Speaker 3: you right away. There is a lot of information out
Speaker 3: there on the internet that's not quite accurate, So I
Speaker 3: understand then, but it really shouldn't matter to a provider
Speaker 3: why you're in their office. Their job is to help
Speaker 3: you discern if this is it, not to you know,
Speaker 3: kind of belittle you for how you came to these questions.
Speaker 3: I would also struggle with a provider that didn't ask
Speaker 3: questions about how your symptoms might show up in other
Speaker 3: areas of life, in different life stages for you. So
Speaker 3: most ADHD people that work in the field will be
Speaker 3: looking for evidence that it existed in childhood. So if
Speaker 3: their questions around that piece are how did you do
Speaker 3: in school? And if you said I did pretty good
Speaker 3: in school, and they're like, well, if you can't have ADHD,
Speaker 3: that would be a red flag because role it's you know,
Speaker 3: kind of the stereotype is the child that can't focus
Speaker 3: at school, that's falling out of their chair, that's getting
Speaker 3: in trouble all the time. It doesn't always present that
Speaker 3: way for everyone. A lot of people, it eachd have
Speaker 3: really curious brains. So if you were the kid that
Speaker 3: was interested in school, you might have done well. So
Speaker 3: well those doctors that aren't seeing nuance when they ask
Speaker 3: those questions, I think that would be a red flag
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting. I think maybe three years ago I
Speaker 2: had a diagnosis and same questions, you know, like thinking
Speaker 2: back to childhood and you know, when you only have
Speaker 2: your own childhood to judge, like you and you don't like,
Speaker 2: we don't have a benchmark of what's good behavior, what's distracted.
Speaker 2: Like I was just a lively kid and I looked
Speaker 2: back it was like, ah, I edit, all right, but
Speaker 2: I'm just doing a course at the moment, And Jesus,
Speaker 2: it's funny to go with a new understanding and self
Speaker 2: awareness to look at how I deal with the stuff.
Speaker 2: I the stuff are comfortable in learning and the stuff
Speaker 2: that challenges me a bit. And I'm like, it's really
Speaker 2: funny because I see the moments where I'm like, there
Speaker 2: were some there were some subjects where I would just
Speaker 2: annoyingly annihilate it and almost to the annoyance of the teachers,
Speaker 2: because they're like, you distract everybody, and you shouldn't even
Speaker 2: deserve to name in this subject you're annoying. You should
Speaker 2: be like I'm sitting I'm sat outside on a desk
Speaker 2: half of the lesson every time. And then there were
Speaker 2: there were subjects where I just because of whatever the
Speaker 2: reason why it be the teacher or the environment or
Speaker 2: the people and the distractions or just the lack of interest,
Speaker 2: I just didn't learn a thing and I would just
Speaker 2: get disruptive and sent out. So it was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I'm a good student. I was like, yeah, maybe,
Speaker 2: or maybe it's complicated.
Speaker 3: Right. Oftentimes they think if you are looking at a
Speaker 3: students ripport cord and they have all ease and then
Speaker 3: like one D or F or even a C and
Speaker 3: it's consistently as across a certain subject, or if you
Speaker 3: see like really strange patterns that don't match up I
Speaker 3: think sometimes that's worth exploring because our brains with ADHD
Speaker 3: can get hyper focused on the things we want to
Speaker 3: learn about. So if we have a teacher that creates
Speaker 3: the right environment that's interesting, that brings some challenge into
Speaker 3: the learning, we likely will do. Okay. If we have
Speaker 3: a subject or a teacher or an environment that's not working,
Speaker 3: then it's going to be really really hard for our
Speaker 3: brains to engage. So I was that kid too, where
Speaker 3: all a's and then math was always a disaster. I
Speaker 3: really really struggled until I got to college actually and
Speaker 3: took a class on statistics, and in that class I
Speaker 3: did great because I could. I found it kind of
Speaker 3: interesting to see patterns and it was so much more
Speaker 3: applied to real life that I was like, Okay, I
Speaker 3: get why I'm learning this now. So sometimes it's not
Speaker 3: even just like a pattern across a subject matter. Sometimes
Speaker 3: it really has to do with how it's applied and
Speaker 3: how our brains can make sense of the information. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what's your take on natural versus medicated management?
Speaker 3: You know, I think it's really individual. I do think
Speaker 3: medication for a lot of people can be life changing.
Speaker 3: The thing about ADG medication and I'm not adopted, so
Speaker 3: please don't ever take this as medical advice. But ADG medication,
Speaker 3: especially stimulant medication or specifically stimulant medication, is something that's
Speaker 3: like in and out of your system within a certain
Speaker 3: amount of hours, so it's not going to build in
Speaker 3: your system in the same way maybe an SSRI would.
Speaker 3: So that being said, you can try ADHD medication, and
Speaker 3: if the side effects aren't working for you or you're
Speaker 3: not getting the results you want, it's very easy to
Speaker 3: discontinue using it. So it is I think for some people,
Speaker 3: just kind of knowing, Okay, I'm going to try this,
Speaker 3: I don't have to commit to this forever or for
Speaker 3: a very long period of time can be helpful. There's
Speaker 3: also a lot of research that there's certain age ranges
Speaker 3: in children as well, where if it can help them
Speaker 3: kind of really like remoedal the pathways in their brain
Speaker 3: and calm their brain down enough that they can kind
Speaker 3: of you get some you know, increased to learning and
Speaker 3: reduce impacts later in life. So I really think it's
Speaker 3: worth investigating. That. Being said, sometimes there's side effects that
Speaker 3: don't work for people. Sometimes people have other health conditions
Speaker 3: that don't make them a good candidate. I think the
Speaker 3: statistics around eighty percent of people with ADHD find benefit
Speaker 3: from medication, but that means there's twenty percent of people
Speaker 3: that are not going to be able to have that
Speaker 3: same benefit or are not candidates. So keeping that in mind,
Speaker 3: I do think that even if you're taking medication, you
Speaker 3: still need to build different skills, and you still need
Speaker 3: strategies and support in a common to truly feel like
Speaker 3: you're thriving with ADHD.
Speaker 2: What do some of those look like?
Speaker 3: You know, there are so many things that we could
Speaker 3: talk about here, but a lot of it has to
Speaker 3: do with shaping your environment in a way that is
Speaker 3: better suited to your brain. So a lot of the
Speaker 3: productivity hacks and things that people use for neurotypical people
Speaker 3: don't always work for ADHD brains. So thinking about what
Speaker 3: motivates an ADHD and there's a few things that are
Speaker 3: commonly known to you to help motivate an ADHD, and
Speaker 3: that's urgency, challenge, creativity, What am I missing? There's a
Speaker 3: couple more interest and novelty. So thinking about those factors
Speaker 3: and thinking about, Okay, I'm going to create an environment
Speaker 3: that has those things in it. Knowing how your brain
Speaker 3: works is really really helpful. So oftentimes, like people will
Speaker 3: get an ADHD diagnosis and be like, Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: try this medication, and maybe it does help them initiate
Speaker 3: tasks or feel like they can focus better, it's not
Speaker 3: going to necessarily help them build the skills to really
Speaker 3: deal with some of the other symptoms that medication doesn't address.
Speaker 3: So that's really important to have that, like understanding about
Speaker 3: how your brain is wired.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and did you yourself like you do ADHD coaching mail?
Speaker 2: Is that something that you sought out and experienced yourself
Speaker 2: from the other side?
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I had. I had been really trying to
Speaker 3: read a lot. I love to read, but I was
Speaker 3: struggling because a lot of the books I was finding
Speaker 3: were just talking about how to manage ADHD in children.
Speaker 3: I wasn't finding a lot that was written from like
Speaker 3: the lived experience of someone with ADHD. So I actually
Speaker 3: have found some courses through the add Coaching Academy ADKA
Speaker 3: is the academic used for that, and I had enrolled
Speaker 3: in a course more to just learn about ADHD than
Speaker 3: to get into coaching. But as soon as I took
Speaker 3: that first course. I think I really didn't even know
Speaker 3: what ADHD coaching was when I signed up for that,
Speaker 3: but I was like, oh my gosh, this is really fascinating,
Speaker 3: and I decided to work with a coach one on
Speaker 3: one during that time, and after that experience, it was
Speaker 3: pretty life changing for me. I decided to continue with
Speaker 3: the courses I already had worked in employee coaching at
Speaker 3: the time and training and development. So it was so
Speaker 3: awesome to be able to find a way to apply
Speaker 3: the skills I already had with coaching to something that
Speaker 3: felt so life changing for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do fund You probably don't because people come
Speaker 2: to you. So I'm thinking about on D, Like, when
Speaker 2: I think of an IDHD coach, I'm like one where
Speaker 2: I'm not doing things. I don't want to be what
Speaker 2: to do, don't. I don't want someone to boss me
Speaker 2: around and tell me stuff I already know that I'm
Speaker 2: just not doing. Okay, do'll we get over that home.
Speaker 3: Yeah? A lot of us really don't like being told
Speaker 3: what to do. That is so true, And an ADHD
Speaker 3: coach isn't really there to tell you what to do.
Speaker 3: They're there to ask you powerful questions that help you
Speaker 3: identify what strategies are going to work for you best.
Speaker 3: And you know, most coaching is more inquiry based versus directive,
Speaker 3: and the difference between kind of just a general life
Speaker 3: coach and ADHD coaches. They're going to be looking at
Speaker 3: that all through like an ADHD lens. So they're going
Speaker 3: to help you understand the root of your resistance or
Speaker 3: your struggles and be sprinkling in that like kind of
Speaker 3: psycho education into the coaching process and help you develop
Speaker 3: strategies that make sense for you personally and for ADHD.
Speaker 3: So really, a trained ADHD coach isn't going to spend
Speaker 3: a whole section being our session being like, Okay, here's
Speaker 3: what you're gonna do, like they're that would be more
Speaker 3: like mentorship, that you'd be able to find those tips
Speaker 3: and tricks like they're in my book, they're they're out there,
Speaker 3: they're everywhere, and they can be super helpful. But a
Speaker 3: coach should guide you and help you find personalized strategies
Speaker 3: versus saying, hey, this is how you do it. And
Speaker 3: it works so much better than just having someone direct
Speaker 3: you and tell you what to do, because then you've
Speaker 3: bought into it and you kind of come to the
Speaker 3: best fit for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what are people when people do come to you,
Speaker 2: what are I asking for? What do they do? They
Speaker 2: have goals? Or are they just going this is I'm
Speaker 2: not coping with myself.
Speaker 3: You know. When I first started coaching, I was very
Speaker 3: much like just doing like the generalist thing. So clients
Speaker 3: were coming to me with all kinds of focuses they
Speaker 3: wanted to to really explore. Some of them were looking
Speaker 3: to make career changes. I had a lot of clients
Speaker 3: that wanted to help with all of the decision making
Speaker 3: and really like landing on a new kind of focus
Speaker 3: or career for that would make better sense for how
Speaker 3: their brain is wired. So a lot of times it's
Speaker 3: that sometimes people are focused on a specific goal. These days,
Speaker 3: I don't do a ton of one on one coaching,
Speaker 3: but when I do, it's typically solopreneurs, small business owners
Speaker 3: that are trying to build their business in a way
Speaker 3: that makes sense for their brain because they've been there
Speaker 3: before and they've had experience burnout or they're feeling really
Speaker 3: stuck and they can't really find ways to structure their
Speaker 3: business without really having some intense struggles.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have to business kids what are the differences?
Speaker 3: You know, it really is so hard to answer that question,
Speaker 3: because if you know somebody with ADHD, you know one
Speaker 3: person with ADHD, it can looks so differently across the
Speaker 3: lifespan and just from person to person. But to generalize things, oftentimes,
Speaker 3: something that's noticed is that as childhood progresses, and you
Speaker 3: know that child grows into like the teen years, college beyond,
Speaker 3: they might see a decrease in impulsivity. Impulsivity can sometimes
Speaker 3: soften a little bit. Oftentimes too, we start to get
Speaker 3: better at covering up our behaviors. We call that masking.
Speaker 3: So this happens a lot quicker. It seems like for
Speaker 3: girls than boys. Girls tend to really internalize outside messages
Speaker 3: much earlier, and we're very much socialized differently than boys
Speaker 3: in most cultures, and we have different expectations. So usually
Speaker 3: girls here loud and clearer early on the we're disruptive
Speaker 3: and that we need to fit in differently. So as
Speaker 3: we get older, we kind of develop like these coping mechanisms,
Speaker 3: whether we know we have ADHD or not. Uh So
Speaker 3: you'll see that more as kids grow into adulthood, Like
Speaker 3: it may look like a child has grown out of
Speaker 3: their ADHD. But what has happened oftentimes is that they've
Speaker 3: just gotten better at created workarounds and and masking their symptoms.
Speaker 2: When it comes to supporting as neurotypical people, what what
Speaker 2: can or how can we support or understand or be
Speaker 2: open minded? Like, well, w how do we bridge the
Speaker 2: gap between understanding and dealing with one another helping one another?
Speaker 3: I think that what you just said about being open
Speaker 3: minded is so so key. Oftentimes I talk to family
Speaker 3: members of people with ADHD and say that the number
Speaker 3: one thing they can do is to not assume inten
Speaker 3: So if they see their ADHD kid on the couch,
Speaker 3: avoiding homework and you know, avoiding sometimes even things they
Speaker 3: say they want to do, assuming they're lazy or assuming
Speaker 3: they're irresponsible, all that does is create more overwhelming shame
Speaker 3: for that child or that person. Instead of saying, okay,
Speaker 3: you told me you were going to do this, why
Speaker 3: didn't you do this? In like kind of an attacking way,
Speaker 3: say hey, I can see that maybe you're having a
Speaker 3: hard time starting this. What can I do to help?
Speaker 3: Or do you want to explore what might be going
Speaker 3: on here? So asking questions instead of making assumptions is
Speaker 3: really really helpful. I do think that learning about ADHD,
Speaker 3: if you truly are wanting to support that person in
Speaker 3: your life, the learning should be on both people. Instead
Speaker 3: of waiting for that ADHD person to like tell you
Speaker 3: everything about their condition, seek out some outside resources. It's
Speaker 3: probably going to give you a lot of insight and
Speaker 3: really help your communication with that person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when women are idea today, women are in
Speaker 2: that perimenopause and the menopausal stage of life, do you
Speaker 2: what knowledge do you have around that?
Speaker 3: Well, I am gaining a lot of knowledge around that
Speaker 3: these days, because that is the stage of life I
Speaker 3: am in. I am so thankful I was diagnosed before
Speaker 3: I hit this stage because that piece of information has
Speaker 3: been key with how I've kind of looked at the
Speaker 3: changes I was going to make in my life during
Speaker 3: this phase. And it's just also been really helpful understanding that,
Speaker 3: you know, this is a real physical thing that's going on,
Speaker 3: and adh is making it harder. So one of the
Speaker 3: most important things to understand is that when you are
Speaker 3: in the perimenopause, as you progress through that, you are
Speaker 3: losing available estrogen in your body. And estrogen does a
Speaker 3: lot of things, but it impacts a lot of cognitive processes,
Speaker 3: So a lot of those things that estrogen kind of
Speaker 3: some of the symptoms that causes in people. All people
Speaker 3: is struggling with kind of like cognitive tempo, being able
Speaker 3: to think as quickly as you used to. People call
Speaker 3: like brain fog is another symptom that people report experiencing,
Speaker 3: trouble focusing, trouble regulating emotions. All of those things are
Speaker 3: things that people with ADHD already struggle with. So when
Speaker 3: we start having less estrogen, then those symptoms are going
Speaker 3: to feel like they're set on fire. So it's really
Speaker 3: important to understand that this is like a real thing
Speaker 3: that's happening, it's not in your imagination, and talking to
Speaker 3: your doctor about changes that might need to be made
Speaker 3: in your treatment is really helpful during that time. It's
Speaker 3: also a time, I think where we have to really
Speaker 3: start thinking about understanding our capacity, understanding that like our
Speaker 3: expectations for ourselves might need to shift during that time,
Speaker 3: and all the things that were like nice to have,
Speaker 3: like you know, working out and sleeping and all of
Speaker 3: that are going to get harder. And a lot of
Speaker 3: those like you know, I know a lot of ADHD
Speaker 3: women that did just fine or fine. I put that
Speaker 3: in quotes. They probably they appeared to be doing just fine,
Speaker 3: but a lot of them were really into exercise. I'm
Speaker 3: one of those people. I was a marathon runner until
Speaker 3: I hit perimine pause and started getting injured like constantly,
Speaker 3: and that routine and that dopamine like really I think
Speaker 3: helped me in all of those years that I was
Speaker 3: spending being you know, undiagnosed. And when that kind of
Speaker 3: coping mechanism started being less available to me because my
Speaker 3: body was just changing and not reacting to exercise in
Speaker 3: the same way and needing more recovery and I was
Speaker 3: having injuries and things like that, that was really really
Speaker 3: tough to handle. I had to figure out, what are
Speaker 3: my other coping mechanisms, what are the other ways I
Speaker 3: can process stress? Uh, So that piece can be really
Speaker 3: really tough on I think all women, that women with ADHD, especially,
Speaker 3: I am so in the.
Speaker 2: Guts of that at the moment, where I have seen
Speaker 2: in my scrolling lots of conflicting advice, as we do
Speaker 2: in every area of everything, but I guess of around
Speaker 2: that managing perimenopause symptoms hit and specifically to ADHD. Do
Speaker 2: you have a stance or an opinion or any knowledge
Speaker 2: about that yourself.
Speaker 3: Again not a doctor, but I have really deep dived
Speaker 3: into trying to understand if HRT was going to be
Speaker 3: right for me, and through kind of my evaluation and
Speaker 3: conversations with my doctor, I'm personally have chosen to take
Speaker 3: HRD and it has helped me a lot. So this
Speaker 3: is all just personal experience, but I really do think
Speaker 3: that from what everything I know as a non medical
Speaker 3: provider and from the providers that I trust, I think
Speaker 3: for many people it is a safe choice and it's
Speaker 3: worth exploring. And really, just like ADHD, finding that provider
Speaker 3: that is informed on that topic versus has kind of
Speaker 3: the stigmas and I'll do an information on it. Finding
Speaker 3: that person that's up to date with their information is
Speaker 3: super important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a mind field. I came across a
Speaker 2: specific account that talked a lot about that, and it
Speaker 2: was just after I'd made the decision, I'd done had
Speaker 2: my blood test, and I got Okay, I'm going to
Speaker 2: give this a go, and I'm in the very early
Speaker 2: stages now of HRT, and then that popped up and
Speaker 2: it was like, estrogen is the problem for ADYHD brains,
Speaker 2: and I was like, what, And you know, when you
Speaker 2: just go I do this a lot. I am tired
Speaker 2: of needing to make decisions about all of the information
Speaker 2: that's now science backed and opposing each other. And so
Speaker 2: I really feel like I've had a big rant on
Speaker 2: my show. I think it goes love tomorrow of me
Speaker 2: just having a riff on the experience I've had over
Speaker 2: the last couple of years with my energy crashing and
Speaker 2: needing to reassess and being tired. And then you know
Speaker 2: how long it's taken to get through all the channels
Speaker 2: and the information to get some solutions happening that should
Speaker 2: have that I feel should have happened far sooner, and
Speaker 2: only happened because I have the luxury of speaking to
Speaker 2: so many experts on the show and getting getting solutions
Speaker 2: and ideas and information from people that I do trust
Speaker 2: in order to make informed decisions. And yet, you know,
Speaker 2: I talk to my clients and people that are ten
Speaker 2: years ahead of me in that journey, and they are
Speaker 2: kind of at the stage I'm at now. Still, Well, y'all,
Speaker 2: I have been going through these ten years. I didn't,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe I should look into that, And it's
Speaker 2: so frustrating.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 3: It is so frustrating. I think that science is pretty
Speaker 3: much to ignored studying women for so many years that
Speaker 3: we're just now trying to crawl over ready out of that.
Speaker 3: It is really really tough. There's just not enough research
Speaker 3: out there, and I think that there's more of a
Speaker 3: focus on it now than there even was a few
Speaker 3: years ago. But just like you said, it's so tough,
Speaker 3: especially because of the way information is distributed now, like
Speaker 3: we're all learning on social media. And I think it's great.
Speaker 3: It's been fantastic for my career, and I think it
Speaker 3: has so many upsides. But the downside is that really strong, opinionated,
Speaker 3: inflammatory content gets pushed. Content that scarce you gets pushed.
Speaker 3: Content with nuance gets d you know, prioritized in the algorithm.
Speaker 3: So it is it is really tough to feel the
Speaker 3: confidence to go forward with the treatment plans sometimes because
Speaker 3: you will always find that opposing viewpoint. And I do
Speaker 3: think we have to get good at like knowing what
Speaker 3: questions to ask so that we can vet the experts
Speaker 3: that we're going to listen to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm really big on that idea of critical
Speaker 2: thinking and being your own experiment and figuring it out,
Speaker 2: but steaking to it and getting the doubt or and
Speaker 2: talking to the rock people. But it's yeah, it's it's
Speaker 2: a mod field.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's so tough. I mean I work with
Speaker 3: so many clients that just agonize over the decisions to
Speaker 3: try medication or not or what supplements to take, and
Speaker 3: they's so much time spent kind of in that overwhelm
Speaker 3: and not knowing who to listen to and who to trust,
Speaker 3: and it's scary. So it is hard, I think, because
Speaker 3: there is always going to be an uphosing viewpoint, but
Speaker 3: looking at how you you know, how you can find
Speaker 3: people that you trust that seem to have the credentials
Speaker 3: to understand the science. And I always asking to you,
Speaker 3: like what's this person's agenda? Like are what are they
Speaker 3: trying to do? And if they're out there saying like
Speaker 3: estrogen's horrible for you, like what are they trying to
Speaker 3: sell you that's different than estrogen? You know what I mean? Like, ye,
Speaker 3: is there intention pure just to educate or is there
Speaker 3: a motive here? And that can help you find some
Speaker 3: answers too.
Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, that particular account, I won't name it,
Speaker 2: but I also couldn't because I can't remember what it's called.
Speaker 2: But I every single time I've seen something, I get
Speaker 2: frustrated because I'm like, you don't give any answer. All
Speaker 2: you do is put doubt into everything. I get really
Speaker 2: mad and I'm like, you're not actually providing. All you're
Speaker 2: providing is conflict in people's minds with no there's no
Speaker 2: solution at the bottom, there's no here is how you
Speaker 2: find out. I had. The cool thing was I had
Speaker 2: a smart DNA test years ago that I went back
Speaker 2: to and looked at some of these genetic things that
Speaker 2: related to stuff that they might have talked about. I'm
Speaker 2: very good with my terminology, thank you. But I was
Speaker 2: able to look at that and just figure out how
Speaker 2: my body processes and deals with toxins and moves and
Speaker 2: deals with estrogen specifically. So I kind of went all
Speaker 2: right that I'm really big on the place bowl effect
Speaker 2: as well. It's like, well, whether or not this is
Speaker 2: the right part for me, also, it matters a lot
Speaker 2: if I feel it's the right path for me. So
Speaker 2: I can't have I can't make a decision to go
Speaker 2: in this direction and then consume and continue to consume
Speaker 2: stuff and then then let that doubt sink in. Like
Speaker 2: I think, we have to look for our information, make
Speaker 2: a decision, decide on a period of time that we're
Speaker 2: going to implement that plan, and then just shut the
Speaker 2: noise out and go, this is my decision for now,
Speaker 2: all bits or off until I get to there and
Speaker 2: assist whether or not we feeling good or not.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. I think that when I'm hearing
Speaker 3: what you're saying in the context of ADHD, I'm like,
Speaker 3: that is all so great. And it's all things that
Speaker 3: are really hard for us with ADHD because we often
Speaker 3: have this tendency to ruminate on decisions. Rumination is kind
Speaker 3: of like what people would commonly call overthinking, and there's
Speaker 3: actually now I get into the science too much, but
Speaker 3: there are studies that show like our kind of the
Speaker 3: part of our brain the rumination originates from, is more
Speaker 3: active in people with ADHD. So we do sit on
Speaker 3: those decisions. We are seeking more information and we're thinking
Speaker 3: and thinking and thinking on them, and it's very hard
Speaker 3: for us sometimes to make the decision and move forward.
Speaker 3: We're also big time researchers that curiosity gets us. It's
Speaker 3: a really good thing sometimes, but sometimes it's not. Sometimes
Speaker 3: it is a minefield, so we sometimes overreachsearch things. So
Speaker 3: what you just described is basically what I would see
Speaker 3: to acclaim as a framework for making decisions and committing
Speaker 3: to decisions. So if we don't have any framework and
Speaker 3: any kind of like timeline or process around how we'll
Speaker 3: make big decisions like this, then we're going to stay
Speaker 3: kind of in that rumination phase for a really long time,
Speaker 3: and we're going to be exhausted, and then we're not
Speaker 3: going to be able to make any of those changes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you mentioned before when we were talking about medication,
Speaker 2: stimulant medication and how it can easily be gone. You
Speaker 2: can easily make a choice and if it's not working
Speaker 2: for you can go off it. Not like your ssrys
Speaker 2: and I understand that you're not a psychiatrist or a
Speaker 2: medical doctor, but i'd love to know if you have
Speaker 2: any knowledge or experience around the stimulants and whether or
Speaker 2: not they people experience like a bit of a crashing
Speaker 2: effect after using them, What they stimulate the nervous system.
Speaker 2: Can people use them just a couple of days and
Speaker 2: not the rest of the time, or does that I
Speaker 2: don't know. I guess I have the feeling when I
Speaker 2: have tried to use them at times that it's like
Speaker 2: stimulating my system and then leaving me feeling depleted afterwards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that can definitely, Yes, that can be a reality
Speaker 3: for sure. A lot of people will describe a crash
Speaker 3: when the medication is leaving their system. I know I've
Speaker 3: experienced that as well. Typically, if that feeling of a
Speaker 3: crash is very pronounced, there can sometimes be tweaking with
Speaker 3: your dosage or the delivery method that might help that.
Speaker 3: So just because you experience that with one medication or
Speaker 3: one dosage doesn't mean that that will be happening with
Speaker 3: any dosage. Or it might happen, but it might be
Speaker 3: like less of a profound effect. It's kind of like
Speaker 3: when you drink a ton of coffee and then all
Speaker 3: of a sudden you crash a little bit, right, So
Speaker 3: like if you drink a ton of coffee, it's going
Speaker 3: to be more pronounced, but if you drink a less coffee,
Speaker 3: you might not notice it as much. So working with
Speaker 3: your provider, if you are, you know, trying medication and
Speaker 3: you have our experiencing that, I think it's really important.
Speaker 3: They say that the average person needs to usually try
Speaker 3: three different types of medication or dosages before they find
Speaker 3: the right fit for them. So but oftentimes people that
Speaker 3: try to medication, like, they try it and they have
Speaker 3: some side effects and they like or like immediately this
Speaker 3: is not for me. So I would just encourage people
Speaker 3: that if you're open to medication and you're like getting
Speaker 3: some good results, but like you still have some things
Speaker 3: that are not working for you, then kind of work
Speaker 3: with your provider. You also asked about, like can I
Speaker 3: just take this a couple of days a week. Some
Speaker 3: people do that. Some people really will use medication as needed. Again,
Speaker 3: this is a conversation to have with your provider about
Speaker 3: what's appropriate for you. But there's been a lot of
Speaker 3: interesting discussions lately about providers that are really kind of
Speaker 3: on the cutting edge of treatment, working especially with their
Speaker 3: patients that have a cycle, like changing dosage after they
Speaker 3: ovulate and having to make adjustments for that because your
Speaker 3: brain has lest estrogen at that time, so you might
Speaker 3: need a little bit more. Maybe you don't take medication
Speaker 3: in the first half of your cycle. So there are
Speaker 3: a lot of options out there. And because and again
Speaker 3: this is this applies to stimulant medications. This doesn't apply
Speaker 3: to all things that can be used to treat ADHD,
Speaker 3: to stimulate specifically, there is wiggle room to make changes.
Speaker 3: A lot of people won't take it on the weekends
Speaker 3: if they don't want to, and that has some pros
Speaker 3: and cons to it. Like pros would be that it
Speaker 3: helps you kind of avoid that tolerance to a certain dosage.
Speaker 3: Sometimes people will find okay, like this feels like it's
Speaker 3: stopped working, but if you take some breaks, it helps
Speaker 3: with that kind of de lease that process. Some people
Speaker 3: have some sleep difficulties on medication, so like sometimes that
Speaker 3: allows them to rest a little bit. Other people are
Speaker 3: fineing that they still have to use their executive functions
Speaker 3: a lot on the weekends, and the function better by
Speaker 3: taking it seventies a week. So it really is an
Speaker 3: individual thing, and really a good prevator is going to
Speaker 3: talk to you about your individual circumstance and help you
Speaker 3: really land on some answers there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think for myself, having it correlate at this
Speaker 2: time where perimenopause is hit me like a truck made
Speaker 2: me really hesitant to want dabble it. Like I went completely.
Speaker 2: I stopped taking it at all for quite some time
Speaker 2: because I was like, I just need I just need
Speaker 2: to know what my baseline is. I need to know
Speaker 2: that this is the stimulant taxing my nervous system and
Speaker 2: causing me to feel Is this just burnout? Is you
Speaker 2: know I was in that stage? Is this burnout? Is
Speaker 2: this the stimulant medication? Is this perimenopause? So I didn't
Speaker 2: take it for quite a long time. And interestingly, just
Speaker 2: last week when I had a school day in Inverticomas,
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, I just need I'm just
Speaker 2: not just not getting the best out of myself. So
Speaker 2: I had viove ance that day a smaller and since
Speaker 2: being on HRT, it felt different, it felt like it
Speaker 2: it was not. Yeah, it was interesting to me. I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, that there's more experimenting to happen there,
Speaker 2: because that's an interesting change.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it's good to you to have
Speaker 3: those tams where you're like, especially when you're trying other
Speaker 3: things as well, very curious about other things. So like
Speaker 3: I would to usually recommend a personally like let's try
Speaker 3: hr T and eat is she beds and all of
Speaker 3: the things all at once, because then you're not going
Speaker 3: to know what's causing the same factor, what's causing the
Speaker 3: positive change. So you know, when there's also just that
Speaker 3: that conversation around stimulants, they might be a tool that
Speaker 3: you really need to use during certain stages of your
Speaker 3: life where you have less control over your environment. I
Speaker 3: work from home most of the time. I can kind
Speaker 3: of control my schedule most of the time, so I'm
Speaker 3: able to make accommodations for myself where I go through
Speaker 3: sometimes months where I don't feel that I need medication.
Speaker 3: But then when I was writing my book and dealing
Speaker 3: with like, you know, I had a massive family event
Speaker 3: happened like right at the same time I signed my
Speaker 3: book contract, and that was the time when stimmul that
Speaker 3: medication really like was a very effective tool to get
Speaker 3: me through that. So thinking about kind of removing the
Speaker 3: shame around that, I think a lot of people like
Speaker 3: they feel like, Okay, if I don't biologically need this
Speaker 3: to live and to keep my heart beating or like
Speaker 3: manage my thyrote or something like that, then I'm using
Speaker 3: a cheat code or something like that. But I do
Speaker 3: think that you know, the way your ADHD presents is
Speaker 3: going to change and fluctuate based on the vironment you're in,
Speaker 3: and if you're in a career that has a lot
Speaker 3: of interest and structure. You might do better without medication,
Speaker 3: but then if you are not you might need it.
Speaker 3: Or if you are at home with kids all day,
Speaker 3: it's a lot. Your life is a lot different than
Speaker 3: someone that's going to an office, you know, So thinking
Speaker 3: about your environment and kind of understanding that your life
Speaker 3: is going to shift and change, and your environment's going
Speaker 3: to change, so your tools might need to change too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you love most about what you do
Speaker 2: and what you offer? What's your favorite thing?
Speaker 3: I mean, I just love people. I love that I
Speaker 3: get to work with people. I love hearing people's stories.
Speaker 3: I've always been very, very fascinated by people. I think
Speaker 3: that's why I studied psychology in college. So I'm not
Speaker 3: that person that's like, you know, if I meet new people,
Speaker 3: you know, people are making small talk. I'm that person
Speaker 3: that's like, tell me your life story, and I'm not
Speaker 3: annoyed when people are like, do the oversharing. I'm like,
Speaker 3: every more.
Speaker 2: I love this.
Speaker 3: So I love working with ADHD people too, because there's
Speaker 3: just this like special thing that happens when people don't
Speaker 3: have to apologize so much, when people can go on tangents.
Speaker 3: I find that like people can keep up with me
Speaker 3: that have ADHD. I usually talk in circles, I follow
Speaker 3: weird paths, and I love being able to like spend
Speaker 3: my day talking to other people that are you know,
Speaker 3: communicate in the same way. I also find ADHD people
Speaker 3: so interesting because we're so curious that Like, I love
Speaker 3: being able to talk to someone and they tell me,
Speaker 3: like all the info dump on the subject they've been
Speaker 3: hyper focusing on. Like, I love that I get to
Speaker 3: learn from all these people and all their stories and
Speaker 3: all their interests, and it just really makes my life
Speaker 3: feel colorful and fun.
Speaker 2: I love that, you know what you just made me
Speaker 2: think of. I've got a few friends who have ADHD
Speaker 2: and or have friends that have ADHD, and they're very
Speaker 2: well versed in it, and it's it's actually quite beautiful
Speaker 2: because I noticed recently. But you get your diagnosis and
Speaker 2: you notice a lot more about your natural behavior and
Speaker 2: environment and this stuff, and you're like, I see this now.
Speaker 2: And there was a particular time when my friend was
Speaker 2: asking me if I wanted to do something, you know,
Speaker 2: on a few days time, and he'd asked me a
Speaker 2: couple of times. I hadn't read the message because it
Speaker 2: was this massive week and I couldn't fit, and I
Speaker 2: was like someone was waiting on an answer on dinner
Speaker 2: that night, and he was waiting for an answer on
Speaker 2: that and I was feeling really chaotic, and often I
Speaker 2: would just go, I'll I'll just get to that one,
Speaker 2: and it was just beautiful to go he gets this.
Speaker 2: So I get to write back to him and go, hey,
Speaker 2: I just can't make a decision right now, and he's like,
Speaker 2: it's okay, you can just wake up Saturday and tell
Speaker 2: me if you feel like it, if you want. And
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I don't think I've ever realized
Speaker 2: it's an option to say that to someone and black,
Speaker 2: I can't make a decision for no reason but the
Speaker 2: fact that the decisions too much for me now, and
Speaker 2: it's small things like that. It's so funny. But I
Speaker 2: was like, oh God, I love you. I love that.
Speaker 3: Finding the people that you can be your authentic ADHD
Speaker 3: self with is just amazing. Like I highly recommend when
Speaker 3: I'm talking to clients that have like really had to
Speaker 3: like heavily mask because of their environment or their job
Speaker 3: or just their family, even find find those people that
Speaker 3: are going to get it without you having to make
Speaker 3: excuses feel like you're making excuses. They're not really excuses
Speaker 3: because they're probably real things that are happening. But finding
Speaker 3: the people that you don't have to over explain with,
Speaker 3: you know, that are still going to look at you,
Speaker 3: but like, but huh, you know, like there I remember
Speaker 3: conversations i'd had before I knew I had ADHD where
Speaker 3: people would be like, whoa, why are you like this?
Speaker 3: I mean, like not always in such a like Kurt
Speaker 3: tone way, but they're like, I don't understand you, and
Speaker 3: I know those people that understand you, and it's amazing,
Speaker 3: And like you said, just being able to tell him
Speaker 3: the real reason versus trying to come up with the
Speaker 3: socially like kind of neurotypically acceptable reason is so nice. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's that logic in your mind that goes it's
Speaker 2: not hard to make a decision, just say yes, you've
Speaker 2: got nothing on. I'm like yeah, but then it feels
Speaker 2: like a task, not a fun thing, and and then
Speaker 2: I feel stressed about it, and then I'm resenting you
Speaker 2: for it. It's like, so it's the whole thing. Yeah, Meredith,
Speaker 2: You're great. I'm going to have your links to your
Speaker 2: website meredithcater dot com in the show notes. Where else
Speaker 2: can people find you and follow you online? And is
Speaker 2: there anything else you'd like to promote?
Speaker 3: Sure? I will love for people that are curious about ADHD,
Speaker 3: whether you're supporting a loved run or you have ADHD yourself.
Speaker 3: I have a book called it All Makes Sense Now
Speaker 3: embrace your ADHD brain to live a creative and colorful life.
Speaker 3: And that's a a liable at all the major book
Speaker 3: retailers and some of the tiny independent ones, so you
Speaker 3: can find that just about anywhere. And then I create
Speaker 3: on Instagram quite regularly, and I'm also writing on substack
Speaker 3: and my Instagram is Hummingbird Underscore ADHD and my substack
Speaker 3: is it All makes Sense? ADHD insights amazing.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Thanks everyone, Thank you.
Speaker 1: She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 1: Got it