1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's a bloody you project, of 2 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: course it is. Moe is all the way from the 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: UK joining us in a moment, but I'll say hello 4 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: to the girl who's not that far away. She's in 5 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: Elwood or somewhere elston Wick. Is it elston Wick or 6 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: Elwood Elwood, Elwood just down the road? I should know. 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook is the life force, of course of 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: t YP when when you know she allows me to 9 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: be on the show. That is Hi, Tip, good morning Apps. 10 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: Are you all right? 11 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 2: I am, I'm very well. 12 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 3: Thanks. 13 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: Can I just point out to Moe, who's probably looking 14 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: at your right shoulder thinking, oh my god, that girl's 15 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: got leprosy. 16 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 3: I don't notice until you I want. 17 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: You to have a good look. Can I? 18 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 3: How is? 19 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: Firstly, before we get into the real conversation with the 20 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,279 Speaker 1: actual grown up in the room, what is going on 21 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: with your right shoulder? Because from here it looks, well, 22 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: it looks kind of like some disease that nobody wants. 23 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: Can you share with us what has been going on? 24 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 2: I am using treatment on a basil cell superficial basil 25 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 2: cell carcininoma, so skin cancer, and the treatment is a 26 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 2: cream that sends a little message to your immune system 27 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 2: to say, hey, there's something going on here, can you 28 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 2: guys come and fix it. So I've been putting that 29 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 2: on for six weeks. It is quite sore and raw 30 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: now and I'm just waiting for my immune system to 31 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 2: do its job. 32 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: Did you go that option because you didn't want the 33 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 1: bloke or the blowcat to just slice into your deltoid 34 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: and you didn't want to lose any muscle. 35 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 2: So well, it was actually quite a large lesion which 36 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 2: was going to require a large incision and a flap. 37 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: So he suggested that this route would mean that it 38 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 2: will either completely hopefully fingers crossed, get rid of the BCC, 39 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: or if worst case scenario, it'll be a lot smaller 40 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: and the incision will be a lot more manageable, which 41 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 2: he will not be touching. 42 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 3: By the way, I will be. 43 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 2: Getting a much better surgeon to address that if that 44 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 2: is the case. 45 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: Well, as someone who's had about twenty bays will sell 46 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: Carsinomas cut off, but would advise you come over to 47 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: my joint later. 48 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 3: I'll do it. 49 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm pretty handy. I mean I was not gonna ask. 50 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: I'm not fully qualified, but Moe probably is he could 51 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: talk me through it. I mean, we'll get some ice cubes, 52 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: we'll get something that's not very rusty and pretty sharp. 53 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: I'll turn on a video for you. You'll be distracted. 54 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 2: Then, what's already going on on my shoulder? 55 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 3: Can it? No? 56 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: Mo? Were you thinking what the fuck have I agreed 57 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: to do? Are you thinking that right now? 58 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 3: Well? I've only agreed to a podcast so far. I 59 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 3: was just wondering, is this not because of this related 60 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 3: to having too many Christmas barbies on the beach or what. 61 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: It's related to being a very pale, freckly Tasmanian that's 62 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: seen a little bit too much of Tassy has quite 63 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: harsh son actually Tazzy Son compared to Melbourne Son is 64 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 2: very harsh. 65 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 66 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, well and also a treatment. Sorry. I hope it 67 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 3: goes as well as it can me. 68 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: Too, Yeah, all of us, all of us. Hey Moe officially, 69 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being 70 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: part of the You project. I did a little bit 71 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: of a I won't say deep dive because that would 72 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 1: take weeks on you and your books and your content 73 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: and your videos and your appearances on podcasts and your 74 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: significant research. But I did somewhere between deep and shallow 75 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: dive in the last twenty four hours, and I literally 76 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: could do I won't burden you with ten, but I 77 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: could literally do ten podcasts with you. So I'm very 78 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: excited to talk to you. Could you, rather than me 79 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: read a bio which nobody wants, could you just tell 80 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: my audience who you are, what you do, and whatever 81 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: it is you want them to know about you. 82 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, thanks very much for inviting me 83 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 3: on your too kind really so, I actually left the 84 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 3: PhD in developmental neurobiology that was twenty five years ago 85 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 3: and without finishing it, and eventually started working as a 86 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 3: writer specializing in neuroscience. About it, really, Well. 87 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: You've done a bit more than that, don't be too humble, 88 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: but all right. So one of the things that this 89 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: is I've written a few books as well, and I 90 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: was looking at your book called Body Am I The 91 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: Science The New Science of Self Consciousness. Do you realize 92 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: that you wrote that ten years ago? 93 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 3: Now? 94 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: Does it feel like a decade. 95 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 3: I was just thinking about this the other day, and yes, 96 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 3: it occurred to me that no, hold on, that was 97 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: the one before I wrote ten years ago, Body Am 98 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 3: I was published in twenty twenty two. But nevertheless I 99 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 3: quite remember but anything about it, So please don't ask 100 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 3: me any questions related to it. 101 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: No, I'm definitely going to so you know, Yeah, all right, 102 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: let me ask you this to start, So, I'm what 103 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: is Let's start with what is self consciousness? Then like, 104 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: what what to me? When we in general terms? And 105 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: then I'll shut up when we go, oh, I'm self conscious? 106 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: It kind of means I'm somewhat worried about what you 107 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: think of me, how you see me, what I look like, 108 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: all that kind of what seems to be insecurity and 109 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,239 Speaker 1: fear based kind of stuff. 110 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:40,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, self consciousness is really it's an aspect of consciousness, 111 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 3: of course, which which we we still can't define consciousness. 112 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 3: We've been trying to define consciousness itself for a for 113 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 3: a very long time, and we still can't reach a 114 00:05:54,920 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 3: consensus on exactly what consciousness is or or or how 115 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 3: it arises. But self consciousness is we could simply define 116 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 3: it as as awareness of one's self within one's environment. 117 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 3: That's that's a very basic definition of self consciousness. And 118 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 3: in my last book that you just mentioned, I argue 119 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 3: that bodily awareness is a critical component of self consciousness. 120 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 3: Then you mentioned but being self conscious and worrying about 121 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 3: about what other people might think of us and other 122 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 3: people other people's perceptions do play some role in our 123 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 3: awareness of our selves, but but not not a really 124 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 3: huge one. I would argue two. 125 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: I mean, and I know there's no number, but you know, 126 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: generally speaking to what kind of extent do we identify 127 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: with or get our sense of self from our body? 128 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the role of the body in our 129 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 3: sense of self our self identity is really underappreciated. So 130 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 3: I think it plays It plays a huge role. The body, 131 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 3: that is, plays a huge role in our in our 132 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 3: sense of self identity. You mentioned obesity, that's a that's 133 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 3: a great example. There are there are numerous other examples 134 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 3: of how our awareness all or perception of our bodies 135 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 3: is crucial to our sense of self identity. And I'd 136 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 3: say perception, because our awareness of our bodies is nothing 137 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 3: is little more than a perception. You perceive your body 138 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 3: through the senses in the same way that you perceive 139 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 3: my voice, the computer screen in front of you. In 140 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 3: some sense, the body is just another object that the 141 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 3: brain perceives through sensory signals. But it's a very special 142 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 3: object because the result of that perception is what you 143 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 3: call me or or I. So the body and the 144 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 3: body and the brain, they're both the object and the subject. 145 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so interesting. I feel like, you know, 146 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: we say, oh, you know, I'm much more than a body, 147 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: like in a pop culture, I'm not a body. I 148 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: just live in a body. I'm much more than that, 149 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: you know. But at the same time, we so strongly 150 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: identify with that. And if you look at especially social media, 151 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: you know, where so many people are looking for acceptance 152 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: and approval and validation and love and connection and perhaps 153 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: fame popularity through their appearance. You know, it's like they 154 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: I guess, people's identity and sense of self varies wildly 155 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: person to person. 156 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I think, well, I know, there are a 157 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 3: lot of studies showing that social media can be very 158 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 3: detrimental to how the a person perceives them selves. I think, 159 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 3: you know, we think it's pretty clear now that no 160 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 3: one is who they really say they are on the Internet, 161 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 3: and of course, using social media, people put their best 162 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 3: image of themselves there. They use filters and manipulate the 163 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 3: photographs of themselves in various ways. Now that creates unrealistic 164 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 3: expectations I think in other users. But then you know, 165 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 3: mass media has been doing that for decades anyway. 166 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you think about without trying to get too metacognitive, 167 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: but when you think about how you think right and 168 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 1: you think and you start to get curious around why 169 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: do I think this way? Where did this come from? 170 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: Why do I see the world this way? Why do 171 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 1: I think this about that religion, or this about that politician, 172 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: or this about this kind of nutritional paradigm. Don't eat this, 173 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: do eat that. If you eat this, you're a bad person. 174 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: If you eat that, you're a good person. If you 175 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: do these things, you're noble. If you don't do these, 176 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: you know, all that kind of stuff. So we grow 177 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: up in this echo chamber quite often, I've thought and 178 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: philosophy and ideology and depending on what context you grew 179 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: up in. But I grew up I basically was just 180 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: a version of my parents and my peers and the 181 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: religion that I grew up in, which was Catholicism, and 182 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: all of the ideas that I was exposed to. And 183 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: so you get to well, I got to a point 184 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: where I whatever, let's say I was thirteen fourteen, and 185 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,599 Speaker 1: I saw the world through this particular lens, which was 186 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: an intersection of different beliefs and ideas and values. But 187 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: I didn't choose any of that. That was just a 188 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 1: byproduct of growing up where I like, I didn't choose 189 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: my beliefs. I didn't go, you know what, here's what 190 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: I believe about God. I just believed whatever. And I 191 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: never made a decision that I barracked for the team 192 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: I barracked for in the AFL. I just barracked for 193 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: them because Dad does. And I just eat the way 194 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: that I eat, because that's the way we've always eaten. 195 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 3: You know. 196 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:21,239 Speaker 1: So how much of who we are is really self generated? 197 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: And how much is just a byproduct of programming and 198 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: conditioning and proximity to everyone else's thoughts and philosophies and behaviors. 199 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 3: That's a great question. I'm not really sure I can 200 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 3: give you a satisfactory answer. Personally, I'll try. These days, 201 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 3: I try to avoid thinking at all costs. You know, 202 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 3: according to according to Taoism, thoughts weaken the mind. So 203 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 3: you know, it follows that the less the less one thinks, 204 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 3: the stronger their mind will be. And that's what that's 205 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 3: what I'm going for. But I think I think that 206 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 3: our environment, our culture, socialization early in life, of course, 207 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 3: they play huge roles in behaviors and thought processes and 208 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 3: beliefs and and values. But it's not it's not that 209 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that one can't realize that these are 210 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 3: behaviors and thoughts that that can change or can can 211 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,239 Speaker 3: be changed. But I think I think that also requires 212 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 3: some degree of self for awareness and understanding of one's 213 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 3: self and to be able to question one's own deeply 214 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 3: hell beliefs. Yeah, yeah, one zone actions, it's I think 215 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 3: those are things that not enough people can actually manage 216 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 3: to do. 217 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's really hard when you've believed something 218 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: for a long time and your identity is intertwined with 219 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: that belief, because when you question my belief, you question 220 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: my identity, and so fuck you, you know what I mean. 221 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: It's like that that it was really hard for me 222 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: when I grew up in a particular religious model. Two 223 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: one to question anything, just for the reason that I 224 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: was indoctrinated. But two, whenever you do live in an 225 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: echo chamber, be it a theological, philosophical, nutritional, academic, whatever, 226 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: echo chamber, you are very strongly within the group, discouraged 227 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: from thinking anything different because you basically, you know, a backslider, 228 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: you know, like, so it's this whole thing of we're 229 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: not taught what to or we're not taught how to think, 230 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: we're taught what or we're told what to think, and 231 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: so then you go and then when you do try 232 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: to think critically and independently, depending on you know, for me, 233 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: I was very much discouraged, if not criticized, you. 234 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 3: Know, Yeah, that's very true. The church that I was 235 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 3: born into, the Coptic Church, that's the Egyptian Orthodox Church. 236 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 3: There are a lot of Copts in Sydney, in Australia. 237 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 3: Actually the largest Coptic community outside of Egypt is in Australia. Wow, 238 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 3: or at least it used to be. That may have changed, 239 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 3: but yeah, there are lots of us out there. The 240 00:15:53,960 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 3: Coptic Church is very very strict and you're not supposed 241 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 3: to question anything. I mean, it's similar to Catholicism in 242 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 3: that respect. 243 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: I suppose, well, I guess, you know, how do you 244 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: control a group of people, you know, with fear, with threats, 245 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: with intimidate if you do this, if you question that 246 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: you're bad, You're a sinner, You're going to hell, you know, 247 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: pick your poison, Like, here are all of these things 248 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: that are going to happen to you if you don't 249 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: conform in a line and just believe. And by the way, 250 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: your job is not to think. Your job is just 251 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: to believe. I'm like, well, that's super fucking convenient, but 252 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: it doesn't really. How did that affect you then? Growing 253 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: up in cognitive kind of environment or a kind of 254 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: certain environment where you had to think and be and 255 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: behave a certain way. That was that hard for you 256 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: to step out of that and think independently. 257 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 3: Not really, you know, I had it. I had it 258 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 3: thrilled into me still do for my for my whole life. 259 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 3: That one parent is very say, fanatical, I suppose isn't 260 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 3: an exaggeration. The other was, let's say, open minded, So 261 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 3: there was there was room for me to to think independently. 262 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 3: As you say, So it didn't a massive effect on me. 263 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 3: I love having one. Having a parent that was so 264 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 3: we say, over zealous, just actually pushed me, pushed me 265 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 3: in the pushed me in the other direction. 266 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, yeah, I think that's I don't know 267 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: if this is true. I feel like that's more common 268 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,959 Speaker 1: with boys than girls, is to push back against that 269 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. But that's just my my perspective, all right. 270 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: I want to change track a little bit. So you're 271 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: your original or not your original, but one of your 272 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: your undergrad was in neuroscience, am I correct? 273 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 3: That's right? And the masters as well, and half a 274 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 3: PhD in developmental neurobiology. I feel you. 275 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: I've so many times, Nelly, Now go on, God, what 276 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: made you walk away halfway through your PhD? 277 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 3: I didn't have much choice. I actually got kicked off Craig. 278 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 3: What did you do? 279 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: Mo? 280 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 3: Mo? 281 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: What did you do? 282 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 3: Well? It was more what I didn't do was my experiments. 283 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 3: I lost motivation doing the same experiments over and over 284 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:52,959 Speaker 3: again and not getting not getting results, and so it 285 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 3: was decided that I should leave the lab. That was 286 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 3: a long time ago now twenty five, twenty five years 287 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 3: ago in November, actually just gone. 288 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: So it didn't hurt, it didn't hurt your career. You've 289 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: done okay? 290 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 3: So do you? 291 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: How do you? I mean, I didn't intend to. 292 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 3: Ask this question. 293 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever asked anyone this question, But 294 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: so you are an I mean you've got a master's degree, 295 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: let's call it half a PhD. So you're a I mean, 296 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: you're much more than an academic. You're like, for me, 297 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: you're more of a pro academic than an academic because 298 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: you kind of teach high level science in a user friendly, 299 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: you know, public friendly, understandable, practical, operationalizable way. 300 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 3: I'll take that. 301 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's what you do. It's like I 302 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: try to be a bit of that as well. It's like, 303 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: I think, what's the point of having a podcast or 304 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: a public platform if you're talking about concepts and using 305 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: language that is not familiar to most people, then you're 306 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,239 Speaker 1: just pumping up your own ties. But how do you 307 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: feel about, you know, academic learning versus you know, self 308 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: research or independent research and experiential learning and not necessarily 309 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 1: what's better, but like the intersection of that, like being 310 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: at university doing all of these degrees. You know, I 311 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: did my first degree a long time ago and I'm 312 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: just finishing my doctorate now at the ripe old age 313 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: of sixty two. And for me, it was kind of 314 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: a good I don't know, just a good fit because 315 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: I've had a lot of real world experience around all 316 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: of that. 317 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 3: What about for you? Well, when I look at how 318 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 3: academia has changed in the twenty five years since I 319 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 3: left the lab, I'm glad I'm not in. I'm glad 320 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 3: I'm not there anymore. I mean, academia has basically turned 321 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 3: to shit in the twenty first century. There are a 322 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 3: lot of a lot of it is, you know, bureaucracy, funding, 323 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 3: funding cuts. There's no there's no room for what's called 324 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 3: blue sky research any anymore. Blue skies, blue blue blue 325 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 3: sky research. So an example of that is going back 326 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 3: to the nineteen sixties, Japanese researcher working at woods Hole 327 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,199 Speaker 3: I think it's a lab in a labin on the 328 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 3: east coast of the United States somewhere and arbor, I think, 329 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 3: and he'd walk along the waterfront and he noticed these 330 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 3: jellyfish that fluoresce, They glow in the dark with this 331 00:21:54,720 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 3: brilliant green color, and decided that he wants to understand 332 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,959 Speaker 3: and how this happened. So he spent years collecting millions 333 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 3: of specimens of these jellyfish from the harbor and eventually 334 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 3: isolated the green fluorescent protein, which eventually revolutionized all of 335 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 3: biology and medicine. I mean, virtually every every molecular biology 336 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 3: lab in the world uses GFP as a tool to 337 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 3: do all sorts of different things. And he shared a 338 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 3: Nobel Prize for his discovery. But you know, he spent 339 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 3: he spent years and years. He was given funding to 340 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 3: just collect these jellyfish day in, day out, and just 341 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 3: spent years studying this organism and eventually isolated the protein 342 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 3: for the hell of it, right, And that's that's Blue 343 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 3: Sky's research. And there's very little room for that in 344 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 3: in in academia today. And there seem to be much 345 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 3: more or many more constraints on the kind of the 346 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 3: kind of research that that you can do in your 347 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 3: in your lab unless you're you know, a superstar scientist 348 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 3: who's you know, won no prize or or something like that. 349 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 3: You know, the most labs, I think there there's huge 350 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 3: competition for for for the funding, to the research funding 351 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 3: these days. So there are there are a lot of 352 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 3: a lot of constraints to being in in in academia. 353 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not you know, I'm not an expert 354 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 3: in how these things work, but you know, I have 355 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 3: friends that that have their own labs. Now, you know, 356 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 3: I follow lots of researchers or on media, not that 357 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,239 Speaker 3: I use it that much any more, but there there 358 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 3: are lots of lots of problems with with the with 359 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 3: the academia. I mean, I don't really well, I don't 360 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 3: do any research myself. I just read a lot and 361 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 3: and and rite. But I still feel like, you know, 362 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 3: I trained as a scientist. I still feel that I'm 363 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 3: a that I'm a scientist, and I can still think 364 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 3: about scientific ideas. There there might be one or two 365 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 3: original ideas in in my in my book about bodily awareness, 366 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 3: that that researchers can couldn't go out there and test 367 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 3: if they yeah want to. I don't know if that. 368 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: You're still a researcher. You're still a researcher. You just 369 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: kind of research the research, you know. It's like one 370 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: of the things I did in mind my PhD was 371 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: a systematic literature review, and basically you're just looking at 372 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: everybody else's, you know, research around the thing that you're researching, 373 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: and then you you know, my initial search for my 374 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: topic and my for all the studies I. 375 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 3: Was doing it. 376 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: It ended up being I think it was one one 377 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty papers that that came in and I 378 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: had to go through and then I ended up focusing 379 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: on ninety three different papers, and some of those, some 380 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: of those individual research kind of papers had you know, five, six, 381 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: seven studies in them, and then, you know, so you're 382 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: basically analyzing what everyone else is doing and trying to 383 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: find threads and trying to find you know, what is 384 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: what is helpful, what is not. So I think you, yeah, 385 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: you're not sitting in a lab and doing that ground 386 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: breaking necessarily new research, but you still and I think 387 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: the beauty of it is like to have a really broad, 388 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: deep understanding you need to know what everyone or at 389 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: least a lot of people are doing. I think one 390 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: of the you know, obviously there are pros and cons 391 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: for doing a master's or a PhD or whatever, but 392 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: I think one of the pros of not doing it 393 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: is that you can research or at least explore whatever 394 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: you want however you want, on whatever timeline. You don't 395 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: need fucking ethical approval, you don't need somebody to give 396 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: you money, you don't need somebody to tell you it's 397 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,719 Speaker 1: all right. You know, it's like, no, I'm just going 398 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: to open the door on this and I'll see what 399 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 1: I find, you know, and then you know, my job, 400 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: as I said to you before we started, is corporate speaking. 401 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: So what I do is I take all of the 402 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: things that I learn and understand and I believe are 403 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 1: relevant for people in positions of leadership or management or 404 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: anyone within organizations, but it a business or not, and go, well, 405 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: what matters well communication, problem solving, teamwork, leadership, conflict resolution, 406 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,360 Speaker 1: asking great questions, being present, Like all of my research 407 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: ties into that, so I don't need to talk to 408 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: them like they're a room full of academics in a 409 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: lecture theater. I can explain something simply like I go, oh, 410 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: there's this thing called the consensus effect, and they all go, 411 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: we don't know what that is, and I go, all, 412 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: it is the false consensus effect, I should say. All 413 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: it is is this thing where people think that other 414 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: people think like them. That's it, And they go, oh, 415 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: I go. You know, most people when they're talking to 416 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: a group, they think that the group think like them, 417 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: so what makes sense to them will make sense to 418 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 1: the group. But that's really true, and they go, you know, 419 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: so just understanding the only person who thinks like you, 420 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: like truly is you, is you, So don't operate on 421 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: the assumption that anybody fucking understands you, because that's a mistake. 422 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: Operate on the assumption that they might, but they more 423 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: than likely won't exactly connect with how you think or 424 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: why you think the way you do. 425 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 3: You know. 426 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: So I think that ability that you have, and I've 427 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: watched some of your stuff and listened to some of 428 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: your stuff to be able to, you know, explain things 429 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: in a way which is actually helpful. All right, I 430 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: want to change tact If ten one to ten. If 431 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: ten is everything that we can know about the brain 432 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six, how much do we know about 433 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: the brain? If ten is everything zero point. 434 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 3: Far less than one, We've only just started to scratch 435 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 3: the surface. We basically know next to nothing. 436 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: That is from someone who wrote a book called Neuroplasticity. 437 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: That is quite the revelation. Okay, unpack that a little 438 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: bit for me. Why do you say that? And like, yeah, 439 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: let's start there. Why do you say that? 440 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 3: Well, I think I read I read somewhere that we've 441 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 3: learned more about the brain in the past twenty years 442 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 3: than we did in in all of you know, in 443 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:24,959 Speaker 3: all of history before that, you know, modern neurosciences. I 444 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 3: mean you know, it's barely is barely two hundred years old, 445 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 3: you know. And it's true that we we've learned a lot, 446 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 3: quite a lot, or we think we've learned quite a 447 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,959 Speaker 3: lot about how the brain works. Just in the in 448 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 3: the past couple of decades, there's there's been a lot 449 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 3: of technological advances that that enable us to to probe 450 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 3: the brain in more detail than than ever before, brain 451 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 3: imaging techniques, ways of mapping, mapping the connections between between neurons, 452 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 3: and that sort of thing. But at the same time, 453 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 3: it seems that discoveries, discoveries that make us question what 454 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 3: we thought to be the fundamental principles of brain functions, 455 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 3: seem to be happening more and more frequently, you know. So, 456 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 3: for example, I just saw a paper the other day 457 00:30:53,600 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 3: about about cells called astrocytes. They're not neurons, they're glial cells, gleamines, glue. 458 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 3: They get that. They're one type of gle or cell 459 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 3: in the brain, and glial cells get their name because 460 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 3: one hundred, one hundred and fifty years ago, when people 461 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 3: were looking at brain tissue under the microscope and examining, 462 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 3: examining how it works, and so on, they thought that 463 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 3: gle or cells would just support cells. They hold the 464 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 3: neurons in place, and that is one of their functions. 465 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 3: But we've always believed that it's that the neurons that play, 466 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 3: is the neurons that process process information, is the neurons 467 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 3: that that communicate with each other. And so you know 468 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 3: that the predominant view of of how memory works, for example, 469 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 3: for the last twenty or so years, is that memories 470 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 3: form when by should I say, the formation of a 471 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 3: unique combination of synaptic connections within the brain, certain regions 472 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 3: of the brain, the hippocampus, that's crucial for memory formation. 473 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 3: We know that, But we think that a memory formation 474 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 3: involves this creation of a unique, a unique set of 475 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 3: synaptic connections within a widely distributed network of neurons, possibly thousands, 476 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 3: tens of thousands, we don't know, We can't really put 477 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 3: a figure. And of course each of each individual cell 478 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 3: is likely to contribute to the formation of countless other 479 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 3: memories as well. You know, if you think you've got 480 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 3: eighty six billion neurons and at least twice as many 481 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 3: gli or cells, you know, and we're talking quadrillions of connections, 482 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 3: and they can change, they constantly change anyway, I'm digressing. 483 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 3: So the view of memory formation is that it involves 484 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 3: this creation of a unique neural network, and if you 485 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 3: reactivate that same network that was created during the formation 486 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 3: of the memory, then you will trigger recall of that memory. 487 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 3: A paper published just a week or to ago that 488 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 3: provides evidence now that actually it might be the astrocites 489 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 3: that are surrounding the neurons and they outnumber the neurons 490 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 3: throughout the braid. It may actually be the astrocites that 491 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 3: that are that are encoding the memories. Wow, every it's 492 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 3: it just seems like these discoveries which make you scratch 493 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,479 Speaker 3: your head and think, wow, this this idea that I've 494 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 3: learned or been been taught or come to accept mm 495 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 3: hmm for the past twenty years may actually be completely 496 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 3: uh completely wrong. And so there's always you know, the 497 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 3: brain is such a complex, mysterious organ. It's just I 498 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 3: personally don't think we'll ever fully understand it. 499 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's so interesting, the like the complexity, but 500 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: also the like there's so much that we don't know, 501 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 1: but we we still have to teach about it, right, 502 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: We still need to teach neuroscience. We still you know, 503 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: and we are. I wish that science would be more 504 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 1: open and honest. This is a dumb thing to say, 505 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 1: but it's what I wish about the fact that we 506 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: really don't know a lot like and it's like we 507 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, we so many things that we get wrong 508 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: in science, like the design of the research, the interpretation 509 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: of the data, the way the data was collected, and 510 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: then you know, and then oh and by the way 511 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: this research is funded by that organization that wants a 512 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: particular outcome, and you know. So it's it's definitely not 513 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: this faultless, flawless, pure kind of protocol, right, we know that. 514 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: But it's just to say, look, we do our best 515 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: and we this is what we believe at the moment, 516 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: but we could be wrong, right, because so many times 517 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: science has been wrong about so many things. I don't 518 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: know if this is remotely interesting to you, but did 519 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: you see that the in the US in the last 520 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: few days, they've been out the new food Pyramid. Did 521 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: you see that? 522 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 3: No? I haven't seen this now. 523 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, So they basically introduced the new food pyramid for 524 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: the US, and it's essentially an inversion of the old 525 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: food pyramid. So instead of lots of carbs and grains 526 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,800 Speaker 1: and whatever at the bottom, and minimal fat and protein, 527 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: you know, in the top third of the pyramid. It's 528 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: been Yeah, but it's just funny how for I don't 529 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: know whatever, fifty years or something that a particular way 530 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 1: of you know, low fat eating equals low fat people. 531 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: That was essentially the hypothesis. And then when you do 532 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: it without boring my audience who've heard this before, but 533 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: then when you do a deep dive into how that 534 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 1: research came into being and who did it, and then 535 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: how the actual studies unfolded, and how they manipulated the 536 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,720 Speaker 1: data and omitted certain data and got funded by certain 537 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: groups that wanted certain outcomes, and that became the standard 538 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: for half a century, you know. But even with I think, 539 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 1: was it Norman Deutsche who wrote the Brain that Changes Itself? 540 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: Was that him? 541 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 3: Yes? It was? 542 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: And that was what was that in that? 543 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 3: Oh? 544 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: There you go, right there? What was that about? I 545 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: don't know, ninety ninety or thereabouts. 546 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. Let's see, actually it says first published 547 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 3: in two thousand and seven, now twenty years ago. 548 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: Now, really, tiff, can you look that up? I doubt 549 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: that I could be completely wrong. I'm mostly completely wrong 550 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: with the brain that changes itself first year of publication. 551 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 3: But I'm sure that. 552 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:37,959 Speaker 1: I was going to call you the prof. 553 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 3: The would be prof. What I actually didn't read this 554 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 3: while I was writing my own book about plasticity. 555 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: When did we first realize as a science community that 556 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 1: the brain was malleable, that it was you know, the neuroplastic. 557 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 3: Well, people have various investigators have been have been saying 558 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 3: it forever, but it wasn't. Actually, it didn't actually become 559 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 3: widely accepted until the nineteen the early nineteen nineties. Actually, right, right, although. 560 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: It's very recent. Yes, sorry, got an answer. 561 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 3: For us to twy and seven? 562 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: Okay, I stand corrected. Apologies prof questioning? 563 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 3: No, yeah, in fact finding skills there no, you fucking 564 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 3: you fucking geezer. 565 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: I won't fucking think of it. What I No, You're right, 566 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,919 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, which is pretty much standard for me. Yeah, 567 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: I remember reading. 568 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:50,760 Speaker 3: I think you were were actually thinking of when plasticity 569 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 3: was first widely accepted within the scientific community. 570 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: So you were just trying to make it. You're just 571 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: trying to make me feel good. Do you don't have 572 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:06,439 Speaker 1: to do it? And you wrote a book just called Neuroplasticity. Yeah, 573 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: and that sold pretty well. That went pretty well. How 574 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: is putting that together for you? Did you enjoy writing that? 575 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 3: I did, Yeah, enjoyed it very much. It's one of 576 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 3: the best selling in the series. Actually, it's it's one 577 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 3: of a series of the MIT Press Essential Knowledge books, 578 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 3: and I think it's sold around thirty thousand copies so far, 579 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 3: which is fantastic. I really enjoyed writing that. It was 580 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 3: very straightforward I wrote that. I think it took me 581 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 3: about two months to write that book. I mean it's 582 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 3: quite a small book. Yeah, but one side, I figured 583 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 3: out the content of each the chapters that I wanted 584 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 3: to include and the content of each chapter. Then it 585 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 3: was just a matter of sitting down and writing it. 586 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 3: And I did write it in in about eight or 587 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 3: ten weeks. I think it was much easier to write 588 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 3: than the last book about Bodily Awareness, which took several years. 589 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:20,399 Speaker 3: Think because the book about Neuroplasticity, there's no narrative arc. 590 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,800 Speaker 3: You know, you don't have to read it from cover 591 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,840 Speaker 3: to cover. You can just every chapter is a standalone chapter. 592 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,760 Speaker 3: And it's the same with the first book. I wrote 593 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 3: fifty ideas about the Brain, which was also part of 594 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 3: a series, but the last one Body am I because 595 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 3: it was there is some sort of narrative in that book. 596 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 3: It's and one chapter follows on from another, and I 597 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,439 Speaker 3: really enjoyed writing that as well at times. At other 598 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 3: times it felt like really hard work. I would describe 599 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 3: that as having a million piece jigsaw puzzle. You've got 600 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,240 Speaker 3: all the pieces in front of you, but you don't 601 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 3: have you don't have a picture of of what it 602 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 3: should look like at the end, So you have to 603 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 3: put each piece in its in its place as you 604 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,840 Speaker 3: as you go along, without having without having a big 605 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 3: picture to to refer to. 606 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: That sounds like a metaphor for life. Yeah, I suppose 607 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: it is, Yeah, my life anyway. Hey, we're going to 608 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: wind up and let you go, but I want to 609 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: throw one or two curly ones at you. Is the 610 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 1: mind real? 611 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 3: No, it's an abstract concept. Yeah, so you've. 612 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 1: But what why where does it come? Like? Has the 613 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,759 Speaker 1: idea of a mind been around forever? Like do we 614 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: not just go, Well, my brain does the thinking. So 615 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: the the the filter through which I process the world 616 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: as my brain or like what's the relationship or the 617 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,759 Speaker 1: space between the brain and the mind one's physical. It's 618 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:19,239 Speaker 1: not like is it just a term that we use 619 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 1: to kind of make it more understandable for us. 620 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 3: Well, you know. Ambrose Pare wrote The Devil's Dictionary defined 621 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 3: the mind as the Oh No, he defined the brain 622 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 3: as the organ with which we think that we think, 623 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 3: and he defined the mind as a I think I'm 624 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 3: paraphrasing now, but he defined the mind as as a 625 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 3: mysterious substance secreted by the brain. I think of the 626 00:42:51,960 --> 00:43:00,600 Speaker 3: mind as as an emergent property of the brain. I think, 627 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,840 Speaker 3: you know, you can you can have a mind without 628 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 3: a brain. Sorry, you can have a You can have 629 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 3: a brain without a mind where you you most people 630 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 3: you know do. But you can't have a mind without 631 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 3: the brain. But is the brain. The brain is necessary 632 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 3: for the mind, but is it sufficient? That's another question. 633 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 3: So one of the things I discuss in in my 634 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 3: last book is is that the body plays a big 635 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 3: role in in our emotions, in how we think, and 636 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,760 Speaker 3: in how we feel. So, yeah, I view the mind 637 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 3: as an emergent property of the of the brain. The 638 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 3: brain generates the mind, but but not by itself. The 639 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 3: body and the environment also play important roles. It also 640 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:07,240 Speaker 3: contribute to the generation, shall we say, of mental mental processes. 641 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 3: I don't distinguish between mental and physical, right, you know 642 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:22,840 Speaker 3: this goes back to Rene DCOs in this mind body dualism. Yeah, 643 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:27,879 Speaker 3: I'm a monest. I would say suggest that most neuroscientists 644 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 3: are also monests. There is nothing mental, it's all all physical. 645 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 3: But how do physical processes in the brain generate conscious 646 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 3: subjective experiences? Or that's that's the big question. 647 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's we're getting you back for that next episode. Hey, 648 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:51,640 Speaker 1: so you wrote a book called fifty Brain Idea or 649 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,359 Speaker 1: fifty human Brain Ideas. You really need to know, which 650 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:55,880 Speaker 1: was your first book? Am I correct? 651 00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 3: That's right? Yeah, so twenty thirteen that came out. 652 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,399 Speaker 1: So one of the things, one of my favorite kind 653 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 1: of tidbits about the brain is that about twenty percent 654 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:13,360 Speaker 1: of our energy or calories every day goes on the brain, 655 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,719 Speaker 1: this little one point three kilo thing sitting in our head. 656 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 3: Right. 657 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 1: I'm like, when you think about someone who weighs me, 658 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,360 Speaker 1: so me eighty kilos, so one point three is whatever 659 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,480 Speaker 1: that is, you know, maybe one point four percent of 660 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,680 Speaker 1: my body weight, but it uses twenty percent of my calories. 661 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,240 Speaker 1: So that fascinates me. So I need from you one 662 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 1: idea or one factoid about the brain that most of 663 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: us won't know that's really interesting, No pressure, And you've 664 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,080 Speaker 1: got fifty in your book. So what's one you want 665 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: to share with us that we're going to go? I 666 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 1: did not fucking know that. I'm going to tell someone. 667 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,480 Speaker 3: All right, here's one. Did you know that a young 668 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:03,759 Speaker 3: a young child can have an entire brain hemisphere removed 669 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 3: and live a perfectly normal life. No? 670 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 1: I did not know that. So either side right or left? 671 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:13,320 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 672 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:19,280 Speaker 3: Or either side that this you know doesn't happen very often, 673 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:24,160 Speaker 3: but in young children, say five six seven year olds 674 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:33,760 Speaker 3: with with severe drug resistant epilepsy. Yeah, as a last resort, 675 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:40,840 Speaker 3: can can have an entire brain hemisphere removed to to 676 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:47,399 Speaker 3: alleviate the seizures or prevent prevent them all together. And 677 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:55,680 Speaker 3: as they grow up, thanks to neuroplasticity, the the remaining 678 00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:02,360 Speaker 3: hemisphere can perform all of the functions that would normally 679 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:09,239 Speaker 3: have been carried out by the other or both hemispheres. 680 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 1: I definitely don't want to be the person that they 681 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: discover that on imagine imagine ground zero for that. 682 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 3: But there was actually a very interesting case study about 683 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,880 Speaker 3: i'll say fifteen or fifteen or twenty years ago of 684 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,320 Speaker 3: a civil servant of all things. I don't know why. 685 00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 3: He went in for a brain scan, but they they 686 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:45,800 Speaker 3: scanned his brain and discovered that actually half of it 687 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:53,800 Speaker 3: was missing. Yeah, he'd he'd maybe I forget, I forget 688 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,440 Speaker 3: the details. But I'm going to have to look this 689 00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:01,360 Speaker 3: up now because it was a fascinating study amid aged man. 690 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 3: I think, yeah, yeah, I think he was complaining of 691 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 3: headaches or or something, went to hospital, had a brain scan, 692 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,560 Speaker 3: and they discovered that an entire hemisphere of his brain 693 00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:20,759 Speaker 3: was missing. And he'd lived his whole life completely for 694 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 3: that fact. Yeah, so he was born like that. Possibly. 695 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,400 Speaker 3: This is why I'm going to have to look up this, uh, 696 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:33,279 Speaker 3: this paper, because I've forgotten the details. I can't think of. 697 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,920 Speaker 3: I mean, there may be very rare genetic mutations that 698 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:46,359 Speaker 3: the result in half a brain forming during during development. 699 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,839 Speaker 3: I can't think of any. And of course, if if 700 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,239 Speaker 3: an older person were to have half their brain removed, 701 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,919 Speaker 3: the older the person is, the far more severe would 702 00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:11,800 Speaker 3: be the consequences. Because the brains, the brain's capacity to 703 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:20,360 Speaker 3: adapt to anything gradually decreases with age. A five six 704 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:26,239 Speaker 3: year old's brain is much more malleable plastic than than 705 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,880 Speaker 3: a fifty year old's brain. 706 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,839 Speaker 1: That's that's good mate, that's great. That's bloody interesting. Hey, 707 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,080 Speaker 1: we appreciate you. Thanks for coming to hang out on 708 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,080 Speaker 1: the You project. 709 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,720 Speaker 3: Thanks again. Yeah, say goodbye. 710 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 1: We'll say goodbye off here, but for the moment, no, 711 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,040 Speaker 1: we appreciate you and have a good night.