1 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: Hello, one, Welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzled podcast. I'm 2 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: James Kirkby. Welcome aboard everybody. Just before we start the show, 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: I would like to invite everyone who might be thinking 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: of sending in a question. And we get questions all 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 1: the time every day and they're very welcome. But you 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: now have a new facility that if you have a question, 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: you can send it in the form of a voice 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: memo and we'll broadcast your voice asking your question live 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: on air. It's a great idea from our producer Liah Sammagloup, 10 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: and I think you should take advantage of it. Okay, 11 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: now we have one or two have come in already, 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: which is great. Let's have a few more and we'll 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: get them rolling very soon. I think it'll be terrific 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: sort of development down the show. Now, today's show is 15 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: one of my favorite shows of the year. My guest 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: is John sten Solti's the editor, of course, of the 17 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: Rich to Fifty List, which is out Friday, the twenty 18 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: first of March. John and I go back a long way, 19 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: long long way back to we go so far back 20 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: that we worked on the magazine. Everyone has forgotten how 21 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: about that. That would be one way to describe the 22 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: working relationship. And I've just had a look at this 23 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: great new edition of the Rich to Fifty. There's got 24 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: this guy on the cover, Lawrence Escalante, of this virtual 25 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: gaming group, and he seems to be I thought he 26 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: was throwing money around, but he's throwing cards around standing 27 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 1: on this infinity pool. It rivals last year's unforgettable cover 28 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: of Lambeauman Adrian Portelly eating a burger on the bonnet 29 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: of his Lamborghini. That particularly classic shot you had their 30 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 1: last year, John Hawaii. And how's the whole list going 31 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: for you? 32 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: Very well? James, thank you and Lawrence and several members 33 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: of this list probably weren't even in business when we 34 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 2: started working together. I want to say how long ago. 35 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 2: I just both, but. 36 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: I've met fortunes during our careers. But it's great fun 37 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: watching them, John, because I do follow the list very closely, 38 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,639 Speaker 1: and we've got him in the studio in Sydney today. 39 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,399 Speaker 1: It's marvelous to be able to do a special show 40 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: on it. There's so many strands to this, John. So 41 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: this guy undercover Escalante. If I look at the top 42 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: of the list and I'm assuming that most of our 43 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: listeners know, by the way already who is on the 44 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: top of the list. Because the very rich, the sort 45 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,839 Speaker 1: of super rich of Australia to some extent, it doesn't change. John, 46 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 1: just tell us who the top three or four are, 47 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: just to remind everybody. 48 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, I mean Jane and Royan high that 49 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 2: Morning Magnate is number one round forty six billion dollars. 50 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 2: It's a huge amount. Handcock Prospecting is a financial powerhouse. 51 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: We know that missus Royan hudders if he ran callser 52 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: is extremely wealthy. 53 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: She's become very high profile, and she was a low 54 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: profile for a long time. People didn't even know who 55 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 1: she was. They knew the Hancock family. But she's really 56 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: become high profile. 57 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 2: She is, she is becoming higher profile without really you know, 58 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 2: saying a lot, if that makes sense. She's starting to 59 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: sort of throw away around a bit politically. You know, 60 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 2: she's backing pit parties, being a very big Donald Trump fan, 61 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 2: for example in America. Yeah, she's not the one to 62 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 2: sort of sit down and do a tell all interview 63 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 2: unfortunately anytime soon. But you never know. 64 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: You have a question, you do I suppose, yeah, of. 65 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: Course, And I've seen her at the Olympics, and she 66 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 2: does all sorts of other different things. So yeah, she's 67 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: number one by a mile, right, a perennial one until 68 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: the are all price plunges. I'm not sure it ever will, James. 69 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 2: Maybe that's another topic for another day. 70 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: But what I would say, it never would. But I 71 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,119 Speaker 1: mean at the price that she can produce the iron 72 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:27,679 Speaker 1: ore and the price it serves on the market, I 73 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: think she's probably comfortably ensconced there for a while. Okay, 74 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: so she's number one, and who else is there? 75 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 2: So Harry Trigabov number two about thirty one billion dollars, 76 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: so if you think about that, it's about fifteen billion 77 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: dollars less than Gina, so that's a very big gap. 78 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: So he's better because of Maritime. 79 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: Merton, Sydney Apartment's King ninety three years young, still going strong, 80 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: still charging around his building sites every day, still making 81 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: a lot of money from building property and particularly renting 82 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: out property. It's basically the biggest owner of hotel rooms 83 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: down through service departments here in Australia as well. So 84 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: if he if he builds them, and he is always 85 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 2: building them, and he wants to build more he's always 86 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 2: frustrated about government red tape and so on. Builds them, 87 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: either sells them or rents them out. So either way 88 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: he's doing very well. 89 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: Fabulous story and in your magazine you did send that 90 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: story more than once. But Harry Trick above story listeners, 91 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: if you ever get a chance, it is something else. 92 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: I think he was born was he like a Russian 93 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: out of Russia into China and he was born in Tensin. 94 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: Have I got that right? 95 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 2: His Jewish family was living there during the thirties, and 96 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 2: you know there was a substantial publication then got out 97 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 2: from Russia previously and they sent Harry to Sydney to 98 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: go to school, and he went back and found me 99 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: textile business for all and came back to Sydney Land 100 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 2: of opportunity sixty two years now. I think it is 101 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 2: since he started Merriton, which was named after a street 102 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: in northern Sydney that he built first couple of apartments on, 103 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: and he's built a lot since he keeps building. 104 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: Yes, and most people, I'm sure I have stayed in 105 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: some Meriton apartments if you were traveling. So that's Harry Chigabov. 106 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: Maybe in some ways he represents maybe that among the 107 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: last of this extraordinary generation of immigrants that came to 108 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: Australia post war, who was upon a time dominated this 109 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: list that John produces the rich two fifty in the 110 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: Australian Friday. But now it's changing a lot. John. It 111 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: seems to me you have Anthony Pratt there, you have 112 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: a trigger Boff, you have Gina Ryan Hart and some 113 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: of the other sort of familiar names, including the Canva 114 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: people there in the top ten, aren't there the Melanie 115 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: and Cliff and who just round out the ten for 116 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: us there? Who else haven't we mentioned? 117 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 2: Yes, we've got Mike cannon Brooks and Scott Farquha, the 118 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 2: Atlassian co founders of the Grand Old Age. I think 119 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: they're forty five now, so I mean they're yeah, almost 120 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 2: twenty nine billion dollars each. Mike's slightly above Scott. They're 121 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: probably pretty similar, right, but MIC's they've all got. They've 122 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: both got sort of other investments now that sort of 123 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: boost up their wealth a bit as well. But that 124 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:52,799 Speaker 2: is an ongoing success story. 125 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: They're extraordinary amounts of money, I mean, kind of hard 126 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: for the average person to grapple with. Now you think 127 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: about all this is shoe and about three million in 128 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: super and then you hear about these guys who up 129 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: to anty billion dollars plus the Canon Brooks for entertainment value. Folks, 130 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: He being very vocal on all sorts of environmental issues 131 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,559 Speaker 1: for a long time, went and bought a private jet 132 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: of Liz. Is that right? Yes? 133 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 2: For me, he wouldn't be the only person on the 134 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: list with a private jet James, of course, but he's 135 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 2: probably not. He's probably one of the few on the 136 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: lists who's been quite valuable about green energy and carbon 137 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: issues and so on. But he's gone and got a jet. 138 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 2: He talked about being for privacy, it was more security 139 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: issues was one of the things he considered in this 140 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: sort of tell all LinkedIn post, which is again another 141 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: modern way of communicating, isn't it. I have to say 142 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: though I did see him at the Melbourne Grand Prix 143 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 2: last weekend. It wasn't much security around him as he 144 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 2: walked the corridors of the corporate swedes. But yeah, maybe 145 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: he's a bit different out there in the great unwashed. 146 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 1: Of airports, struggling struggling around in the rain at the 147 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: Grand Prix. So these are the very familiar figures now 148 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: one thing I think is very interesting with the list 149 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 1: this year and every year, it's different. When I look 150 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: at the very top. These are the very wealthy, extraordinary 151 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: wealthy people, three of them, and the three who would 152 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: appear at first glance to be among the youngest. When 153 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: I say youngest on the rich list, well if you 154 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: mentioned Harry Trigobovs in his nineties and he's number two. 155 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: But these three people, Laurence Escalente who's on the cover, 156 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: Adrian Partelly who was on the cover last year, the 157 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: Lambeau Man who all you have to do is read 158 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: the metros or listen to the radio or television entertainment 159 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: news to hear about him. And there's one more, Tim Heath. 160 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: The three of them, they're all in one way or another, 161 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: these massive fortunes. They're all in gambling, right, and the 162 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: three of them are mostly making their money outside Australia. 163 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's right as in there I should. 164 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: Have mentioned Ed Craven because his empire, apart from gambling 165 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: and crypto, it does overlap into investing a little bit. 166 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: You can buy shares and that sort of thing. 167 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 2: So just to be clear, it's strictly gambling, but he 168 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 2: also has this streaming service as well, so you've got 169 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: so yeah, so you've got the three yeah gambling slash, 170 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 2: let's call it sweepstakes model with escalante, right, if it's 171 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 2: probably a way around these sort of you know, the 172 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: gamings of you know laws of America. Yes, all of 173 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: them make their money outside Australia because Australia, I mean 174 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 2: they were a nation of gamblers. You see all the 175 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 2: ads and so on TV, and so you can't actually 176 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 2: gamble with cryptocurrency in Australia, right, there's still banned. So 177 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 2: these guys have probably taken that Australian acumen and when 178 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: it comes to gambling and apps and so on and 179 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 2: so forth, and gone out and conquered the world. Now 180 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: that's that also probably encapsulates how you can do that 181 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 2: these days with technology and you can build a global 182 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: business from Australia. So yes, they in particular Tim Heath 183 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 2: a lot of cryptocurrency gambling with clients in South America, 184 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: in the Middle East, a lot of cashed up people there. 185 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 2: So his operation, he's got a couple of them, be 186 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 2: cause he's got what's called bit casino and also sports 187 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 2: bet dot Io, So there's online casino Games with Tim 188 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: Heath and also online Bookmate with his other business, and 189 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 2: than Ed Craven with Steak, which is basically an online 190 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: sports book and casino business as well. And then you've 191 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 2: got Escalante with the virtual gaming worlds. He's got Chumper 192 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 2: Casinos one of his brands, which is in America, which 193 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 2: mostly America, sorry, mostly North America, and that's more a 194 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 2: gaming sort of experience. So all of that, these guys 195 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 2: are worth, let's say roughly combined eight nine billion dollars. 196 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: Well the two of them are in their forties. Ed 197 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 2: Craven's only twenty nine, and yeah, they've made all this 198 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 2: money from Australia, but actually from overseas. 199 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: That's amazing, is it, And to some extent m of 200 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: the money overseas because well, for a start, they couldn't 201 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: actually operate here in the fashion that they operate overseas. 202 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I mean Craven's now sort of putting out 203 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 2: the feelers. We spotted him the other week in Darwin 204 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 2: talking to the local bookmaking authorities there. That's where you 205 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: get your license when you're in Australia. So he is 206 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 2: now going on the straight and narrow if you want 207 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: to say that inverted Comma is taking more bets in 208 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: feet currency. That's what these people call it old money 209 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 2: to you, and I yeah, exactly right, So he's sort 210 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: of doing that. But mostly yeah, it's still mostly that 211 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 2: online world. Outside Australia, there's guys are young, they're very successful, 212 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 2: they have very sort of roller coaster ride lives that 213 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: puff of it's on social media as well. 214 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: They colorful lives, they really do. I suppose in a 215 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: way it's a well you might think it's inevitable, but 216 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: once upon a time the rich List, when you're in 217 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: early days with when you did it, I think there 218 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: was a lot of people who weren't boring as such, 219 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: but they certainly weren't as interesting are colorful as some 220 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: of the people who are in the upper reaches in 221 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: the upper decks these days. One of the things that 222 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: also strikes me is it seems to me if you 223 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: look at the list, I mean, I'm just glancing at 224 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: it here and I see various people who would be 225 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: well known were on the list for a long time. 226 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: Frank Lois, which was Westfield once upon a time, Kerry 227 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: Stooke's Channel seven and West Track, Caterpillar, etc. These are 228 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: always there, Alan Wilson, is that the Reef's family, the plumbing. 229 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: That's a good example of a pretty boring business. But 230 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: what people seem to be interested in, John, even though 231 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: some of these characters are much deeper down the list, right, 232 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: they're not as worthy as some of these family names 233 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: that are not so well. It seems to me that 234 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: younger readers investors are more interested in the younger set 235 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: than the old set, or like the old guard. 236 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,599 Speaker 2: Is that your experience, Yeah, definitely, And the readership is 237 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 2: much bigger for the stories that reveal new names or 238 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 2: talk about the youngsters that you know. And when we 239 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 2: say youngsters, people in the twenties, thirties, forties, right, I 240 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 2: mean the revelations of how they've made their money so 241 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 2: quickly and interestingly as well in a very interesting manner, 242 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 2: very new age manner. A lot of it's technology based. Example, 243 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 2: we've talked about Canva. Those sort of people always get 244 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: really big readerships, and they often have very interesting backstories, 245 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 2: very quol. I mean, everyone's got an interesting backstory in 246 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 2: a way. But I mean Escalante might be forty three, 247 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 2: but he's already had a career flipping burgers, at Hungry Jacks. 248 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: He did paraplanning. When he was in his twenties, he 249 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 2: did financial planning. He had a Christian games business, you know, 250 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 2: that didn't quite make it because the publisher in America 251 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 2: that he had didn't do a very good job with it, 252 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: so he pivoted to virtual gaming. Was So they've all 253 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: got those sort of really interesting stories that it can 254 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 2: be slightly relatable. I mean, there's a lot of people 255 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 2: that have flipped burgers at Hungary Jackson McDonald's right, and 256 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 2: this guy's done it, and now he's gone and done this. 257 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 2: So that's where I think where you get that interest. 258 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: Has that appeal that it promises the great promise which 259 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: Australia provides to this day. And I suppose it proves 260 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: it where Harry Chigobov came in in Whenever the nineteen 261 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: sixties and arrived with a suitcase got on the list. 262 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: And similarly, these this new generation have come out of 263 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: nowhere flipping burgers one day and twenty years later there 264 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: on the list. So it's still possible. I suppose that's 265 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: what people like. 266 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely like. If you take someone like a Robin Cooter, 267 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: for example, with air trunk which got sold for twenty 268 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 2: four billion dollars. This is the data center's business, right, 269 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 2: So this is the data center's guy who got investment 270 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 2: from Quarry. It was several billion dollars last year with 271 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 2: data centers as going crazy because of artificial intelligence and 272 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: we need all this data, and so he keeps building 273 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 2: these data centers. Now they sort of look boring, right, 274 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 2: they're just like big data centery things buildings, right, But 275 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 2: he's moved pretty quickly. He does a really good job 276 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 2: rolling out several around the world, sells it for twenty 277 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: four billion dollars last year. So what's his backstory. He's 278 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 2: in his forties. His parents are from Bangladesh. He's from 279 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 2: Bangladesh as well. Effectively he was their great hope, right. 280 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 2: They saved their money to send him to Australia to 281 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: get an education. We've got a feature in the magazine 282 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 2: where he talks about my parents better on me, right 283 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: to make it. He had some pressure on himself to 284 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 2: do that. Yeah, So he comes out and counting as 285 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 2: this sort of classic what migrants do when they come 286 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 2: to study here in Australia, works sort of menial jobs, 287 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 2: gets a job in financial services and then into new 288 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 2: age sort of data center sort of things where you know, 289 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 2: he parlays his skills into that. But again he talked 290 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: about where he was very close to calling in the 291 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 2: ministry is in his early days in business, sweating over 292 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,599 Speaker 2: that for I think it was during Christmas time and 293 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 2: stuff all that. So again that's his parents bet on him, 294 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 2: send him to another country to get an education. He 295 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: makes good here along the way. He still has some 296 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 2: pretty tough business ups and downs. 297 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: Right, this is Robin Kuda and the business was air Trunk. 298 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: That was the one, of course, folks that were sold 299 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: possibly at the top of the AI driven data center boom, 300 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: which has driven companies like next DC, et cetera of 301 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: recent times, and even might I say the Goodman Group, 302 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: which if you were wondering whether air Trunk could have 303 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: been sold for as much today, I wonder. Goodman is 304 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: of course terrific property trust, but has had a premium 305 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: for a long time because it's a data center play. 306 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: It had a big rights issue just recently. It closed 307 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: last week. The rights issue was offered at a higher 308 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: price than the share price and guess what, well, smartly enough, 309 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: virtually no retail investors took it up rightly, So why 310 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: would you go into a writ tissue if you could 311 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: buy the shares for lists. It's just a little anecdote 312 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: about that area data centers. And I think one of 313 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: the extra things John will take a break now. But 314 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: one of the extra things about these people when you 315 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: meet them, you assume a whole lot. They are obsessive, 316 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: they're marvelous, they're focused. You can assume a lot of things, 317 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: but one of the things they seem to have sometimes 318 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: is this magic sense of timing. And a lot of 319 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: the fortunes on the list would some of them it's 320 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: a lifetime my chemist wharehouse. They could have sold it 321 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: this year, next year, ten years ago. But some of 322 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: them just said, have that marvelous extra talent of knowing 323 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: when to push the button to sell or I will 324 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: take short break back in a moment. Hello, Welcome back 325 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby talking 326 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: in this episode specially episode. We do this every year 327 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: and it's one of my favorite shows. It's John Stencil, 328 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: the Rich two fifty editor, and he is taking us 329 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: through the Rich two fifty edition, which is out tomorrow. 330 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: Now we in the first part of the show, Folks, 331 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: we talked a little bit about some of the for 332 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: the people at the very top of the list who 333 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: you would be familiar with, some of the new crew 334 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: that are coming through, some of them in gaming, in gambling, 335 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: some of them in much more conventional businesses, quite boring 336 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: businesses like data centers which you can make a fortune 337 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: from too. And we mentioned in passing the Gans family. 338 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: Now there's a couple of families. This is Chemists Warehouse, Folks, 339 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: which is the big float of the year, and everyone 340 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: knows Chemist Square House, and suddenly I see dotted through 341 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: the list John the people who were involved with it. 342 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about who's behind Chemist Square 343 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: House and how they all arrive on the rich list 344 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: this year. 345 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: There's actually six people from Chemists wa the two fifty. 346 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 2: How do you believe, James, So do two families, the 347 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: Gance family and the Verrocki family. So it starts with 348 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 2: jacket Sam Gance back in the gritty Melbourne suburb of 349 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 2: Reservoir back in the seventies and early eighties. And the 350 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: guy comes along who's got a chemist a degree called 351 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 2: Mario Varocki, and he wants a job and they hire 352 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 2: him as their sort of I guess apprentice. 353 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: Right, So he's the qualified chemist and they're the two 354 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: entrepreneur brothers, okay, and they're Polish originally. 355 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 2: I know they're the European originally. They also quite entrepreneurial, right, 356 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 2: they start buying chemist stuff, but they also had the 357 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 2: Laspecs and Latane brands back in the eighties as well 358 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 2: in nineties, which are fantastic sun cream and sunglasses brands. 359 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: So they do that, and then in about two thousands 360 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: they start what we know now today is the chemist 361 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 2: where House business. Right now, it's been very private. I 362 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 2: mean Jack has told me personally he hates the rich list. 363 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 2: Mario very good, he's always very nice about it, emails 364 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 2: me back at no comment, and I don't want to 365 00:17:58,440 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 2: talk about it. It'd be great if I'm not on 366 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 2: the lid. But so they've been on the list for 367 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 2: a while a few years now. But then Chemist's Warehouse 368 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 2: wants to go public Mother Wealth, right, so they engineer 369 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 2: this effectively a reverse takeover of the already listed Sigma Healthcare. 370 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 2: Now as a result of that, something like eighty or 371 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 2: ninety percent of the private Chemist Warehouse shareholders now become 372 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 2: Sigma shareholders, including several members of their family, one of 373 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: them being Damien Gants, who's the chief commercial officer, who's 374 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 2: Sam Ganser's son. He's a billionaire in our list this 375 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 2: year now thanks to his Sigma shares. 376 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: And thanks to this process back which they turned the 377 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: private company into a publicly listed company, through what they 378 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: used to call it a reverse takeover of the Sigma Group, 379 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: which is listed on the Start market, you were able 380 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: to see how much everyone had. 381 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 2: Yes, right, yes, thanks to this scheme of arrangement booklets, James, 382 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know who else looks through those, 383 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 2: but that's what I do. So several other members of 384 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 2: the Verrocki family as well, Marcello and Adrian brothers. They've 385 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 2: roughly at nine hundred million dollars or so stock each. 386 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: There's several other executives and family members who just missed 387 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 2: the list, two that are worth four five hundred million, 388 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 2: two hundred three hundred million on paper. 389 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: What does it take to get on the list. 390 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 2: It takes through six hundred and thirty five million now 391 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 2: this year. It's a very high cutoff. 392 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: Oh my god, six hundred and five minutes to get 393 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: on folks. So don't feel if you know someone terribly 394 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: wealthy and you say they'll be on the list and 395 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: they're not, well, they might be a both only five 396 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: hundred million. Keep that in mind. That's the Gants and 397 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: Baroki family who were behind Chemist Warehouse, and that's a 398 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: great story. I presumed the chemist skills and everything else 399 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: did not like them, did not like their sort of 400 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: commoditization of chemist shops. How do they get it through 401 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: the system? 402 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 2: Ye, there's been a lot of regulatory sort of battles 403 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 2: over the years, and they've really just sort of almost 404 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 2: punched through all those and just kept sort of persevering 405 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 2: and kept growing almost in despite what the sort of 406 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 2: protective nature of the chemist business or the chemist industry 407 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 2: has done. I mean, effectively, if you walk into a 408 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 2: chemists warehouse, it's a big retail sort of outlet, isn't 409 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 2: It's a big shop with a chemist at the chemist 410 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 2: at the back. So that's really what it is. Stack 411 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 2: them high and sell them low and all that sort 412 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 2: of ratel success story. 413 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: It's amazing. There's one in every I mean, it seems 414 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 1: to me there's one in every suburban strip in Australia and. 415 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: There's plenty of growth throughout Iver says, and still in Australia. 416 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 1: And as you say, when I saw that history of 417 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: getting through all hurdles, when I saw all the debate 418 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: about whether they'd ever get their reverse takeover up and 419 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: whether Stigma will get through and whether they get the 420 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: deal done, I remember thinking, these guys have gone. These 421 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: guys have gone from a shop in the suburb of 422 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: Melbourne to a multi billion dollar chain. They are not 423 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,199 Speaker 1: going to be stopped by any regulatory hurdle at the 424 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 1: last lap when they go to cash out their fortunes 425 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: as they are entitled to by going on the stock market. Okay, 426 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: that's the Kansas and they are suddenly a cohort of 427 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: their own. The two families behind the Chemists warehouse on 428 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: this year's list, and they've arrived. You've found some other people. 429 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: There's a guy called Michael daldy or In. He appears 430 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: out of the blue with a bullets at number thirteen 431 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: at an estimate of thirteen point five billion billion dollars. 432 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: Never heard of him? Who on earth is he? And 433 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: how does he squeeze in between Frank Lloyd and Carry 434 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: Stokes And we've never heard of him. 435 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,959 Speaker 2: This is an incredible story. I mean, Mike is an 436 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 2: uzzie guy on Wall Street and he has got a 437 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 2: business called stone Peak and invests in infrastructure around the world. 438 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,719 Speaker 2: It's almost like a mini mcquarie model. 439 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: So hecquary and he went to the US. 440 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 2: He exactly took that model over to the US. Worked 441 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: with mcquarie in the US for a while. It's a 442 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 2: great story about how it wasn't. He claims he didn't 443 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 2: do very well at UNI, but he managed to talk 444 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 2: his way in too Mcquarie as a cadet by going 445 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 2: along to their sort of drinks networking session spends. If 446 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 2: he is there doing really well, goes over to America 447 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 2: with them with taking that mcquarie sort of buying toll 448 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 2: roads and poles and wires and all this sort of 449 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 2: infrastructure assets and wrapping them up and someone management fees 450 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 2: all that sort of thing. It goes out on his 451 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 2: own with a business partner. The global financial crisis hit, 452 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 2: so they don't really have much business for a couple 453 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 2: of years. Decided that they had a big backer. Then 454 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 2: they pretty much didn't really know what to do other 455 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 2: than keep working away. They had this crucial moment where 456 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 2: they end up in Olympia in Washington State sort of 457 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 2: talking to the local state pension fund about investing a 458 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 2: couple hundred million dollars into their business. They managed to 459 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 2: get the money and away they go. And it's built 460 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 2: very quietly. We wouldn't even know about it. 461 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: And is it green energy or all energy? 462 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 2: All sorts of energy, all sorts of ports and different 463 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 2: infrastructure sort of assets. Now, I mean they've even owned 464 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 2: New Zealand age care homes, you know, this sort of 465 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 2: what I guess what they think is pretty steady income 466 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 2: sort of, and they have about seven seventy odd billion 467 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 2: dollars US in assets under management or under administration. The 468 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 2: business is actually worth. It got a US sort of 469 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 2: fifteen billion dollar valuation when a private equ he fund 470 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 2: bought into it last year. That's where you got That's 471 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 2: where I got the numbers from. Before then, we didn't 472 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 2: know about Mike. But the really interesting thing about Mark 473 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,479 Speaker 2: is that he also we got a bit of publicity 474 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 2: about him last year when he bought her just a 475 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 2: small one hundred and fifty million dollar mansion in Palm Beach, 476 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 2: just just around the corner from Mary Lago James, which 477 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 2: I've actually seen is very nice. 478 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: All right, right, all right, interesting story, Michael Dorral. That 479 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: is interesting to you talking about how he talked his 480 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: way into mcquarie. I remember was upon a time Quarry 481 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: famously has this very difficult entry tests McCrary bank, that is, folks, 482 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: and you have to pass all these tests like iq EQ, 483 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: rose arch tests, my briggs, my briggs, et cetera. And 484 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: I was working with someone on the commercial side who 485 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 1: was ex McQuary bank, and we were hiring someone and 486 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: he wanted to give them these tests. And I been 487 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: coming up through media, had no experience whatsoever of this 488 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 1: end of things. And I can tell you that we 489 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,719 Speaker 1: still don't have anything like that when you're recruited media 490 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: at any level. But interestingly, we did the test and 491 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: someone I liked did badly on the tests, and this 492 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: ex maccori guy said, don't go against the tests. Every 493 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: time I went against the test, it blew up, and 494 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: we didn't. And apparently that is a thing. They're very strong, 495 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: and how you get into an investment bank is you 496 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: have to climb over quite a lot of hurdles, including 497 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: those tests. So it's really interesting about our friend Michael Daryl. 498 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: I wondered did he really get in sort of a 499 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: side door of from Maccarier or did he not? That 500 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: could be something for you to find out for next year. Okay, 501 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: now also new entrance. This just I find this completely entertaining. 502 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: There's a chap who has managed to be a debutante 503 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: on the list and he's ninety years old. Tell us 504 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: about him. 505 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 2: Yes, Andreas Andreanopolis, who's a Greek margareant, lives in Melbourne. 506 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 2: He has built up these big network of petrol stations 507 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 2: for decades. 508 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: But they're not under his name. 509 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 2: Well, they're under a business A Holdings, which just sounds 510 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,719 Speaker 2: so vanilla. It doesn't no idea what it was, but 511 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 2: it just happened to pop up on one of this 512 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 2: hot highest taxpayers lists that the ATO puts out, and 513 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 2: I wonder what is this company? And due to recent 514 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 2: changes by the federal government the last couple of years, 515 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 2: a lot of these private companies have started having to 516 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 2: lodge their financial orts with set. 517 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 1: They are finally doing it, and they finally do it. 518 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 2: So A Holdings puts one up and all of a 519 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 2: sudden it's like wow, there's hundreds of millions of dollars 520 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 2: in this business from this pretty humble guy and if 521 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 2: he gets a bit of attention in the local Greek media, 522 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 2: very big philanthropy and just this business that just just 523 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 2: kept working away. Again another classic migrant success story, I think, Jane, 524 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 2: but very quietly done his thing. 525 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: Isn't that fantastic? What a great story you've dug up there, 526 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: You've excavated from the Assic files. And of course again 527 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: I was a little bit cynical that they would ever 528 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: get anything out of private companies, because that's why people 529 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: keep them private. So Nick Andrianachus and family one point 530 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: billion in there at number eighty eight and very much 531 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: an unknown quantity until today. Okay, well take short break. 532 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment with some questions. Hello, 533 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: Welcome back to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James 534 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: Kirby and I'm talking to John Stencil and we are 535 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: talking about the ever interesting Rich to fifty list. Interesting 536 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: from a money point of view. From an investment point 537 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: of view, some people love to back people in their investments. 538 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: You have these founder led funds where people just say 539 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: I trust the person rather than the company, and they 540 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: get behind them, and some of those companies go a 541 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: long way. You look at the top of the list, 542 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: I mean wise check us up there for instance, which 543 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: is very much attached to one person, Richard White, who, 544 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: by George isn't going to give up that company easy, 545 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: that's for sure. But I was wondering with you, John, 546 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: when you're looking at this, I'm just wondering whether I 547 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 1: read about as a guy to follow. It was a 548 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: very interesting man. He died a few years ago. His 549 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 1: name was Felix Dennis, fascinating guy. Australians might remember. Australians 550 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: are interested in nineteen sixties culture, might remember there was 551 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: a famous magazine called oz oh Z and there was 552 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: all these extraordinary people linked with it, and they had 553 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,719 Speaker 1: a famous trial in the UK way back. A lot 554 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: of famous Australians came out of that trial. But the 555 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: person behind the publisher of oz was a man called 556 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: Pheenix Tennis, and he later, as a multi millionaire, wrote 557 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: a book called How to Get Rich. But it's actually 558 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: a very sad book, almost about how he was a 559 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 1: cocaine addict. He was never happy. He had a fortune 560 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: of one hundred million or so and a long tail 561 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: of misery laced with a lot of money. And I 562 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: just wonder John about what these people have in common, 563 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: whether they are what are their common qualities. I know 564 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: it's really hard to answer that this, but that's a 565 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: bit more about them as a corehurt Well. 566 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 2: I guess there's that notions of perseverance and high energy 567 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 2: and coming back from stepbacks and all that sort of 568 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 2: thing that you know, being smart and with their timing 569 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 2: and highly intelligent. I think that's the richest to fifty list, James, 570 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 2: but it's not necessarily the happy two fifty year old. 571 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 2: I mean that there's a lot of trials and tribulations 572 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 2: that come with being wealthy. I'm not saying we need 573 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 2: to feel sorry for them, but you can just think. 574 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 2: I just know that when I write about them for 575 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 2: the rest of the year, so to speak. In my 576 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 2: normal job, there's a lot of increasing amount of court 577 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 2: cases and disputes that we cover in terms of who's 578 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 2: going to get the money or why hasn't this person 579 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 2: got that? So that's the I think that's the coming 580 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 2: tide of how do you deal with having a big 581 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 2: amount of wealth, How do you deal with your kids? 582 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:42,719 Speaker 1: How do your kids deal with it? 583 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 2: Exactly right? 584 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: Do you think angst is more common in the second generation. 585 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 2: I think it is. I mean, there's been some very 586 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 2: high profile issues with mental health concerns. James Packerson is 587 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 2: the Springs to America. 588 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: And we mentioned the Rhinehart family who've been in and 589 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: out of court, mentioned the Pratt who I've have been 590 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: in court. That is in the Pratt side and well 591 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: in the Hancock's side, Gina Hinhardt side. There's long running 592 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: core cases. Yeah. So, and then the other thing is like, 593 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,239 Speaker 1: even if they have their act together, even if they 594 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: are well balanced, well adjusted people, other people treat them differently. 595 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: They can't be treated normally, can they. 596 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 2: No, it's a verified error, I suppose. So there's a 597 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 2: cohort of people around these people that I guess say 598 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 2: yes to them a lot. Probably, you know, that's what 599 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 2: they've got to, that position of power and wealth. You 600 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 2: see that relationship that people have with politicians, that sort 601 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 2: of courting power in that way or having the power 602 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 2: caught them in a political sense. So there is that 603 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 2: notion that they are above everyone else in a whole 604 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 2: bunch of ways rather than just the money side. 605 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone probably wants something from them. There's some people 606 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: would be familiar with that across time. But as you said, 607 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: we have these next generations coming through. The most obvious 608 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,479 Speaker 1: ones been Prass, Packer, the Lowis, et cetera. These are 609 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: old families that have been on the list for a 610 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: long time, but as you say, it's not necessarily the 611 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: happy list, So pro rata, I suppose more of them 612 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: end up in court with their siblings than perhaps the 613 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: average sample on the street. Okay, because the nature of 614 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: your arrival on the show, John, it being so special, 615 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: I have curated some very special questions for you, just 616 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: one or two, but I wanted to put this to 617 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: you and folks. One thing I haven't sort of mentioned 618 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,959 Speaker 1: on the show before is when the questions come in, 619 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: of course from you all, which are great, and they 620 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: come in every day to the money puzzle at the 621 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: Australian dot Com dot you also I get a torrent 622 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: of unwanted people request to come on the show, asking 623 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: to come on some one in ten maybe I would 624 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: even think about. But a lot of them I don't 625 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: want to even talk about or talk to. And I 626 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: thought i'd asked John, I'm just going to read out John, 627 00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: this is something that's typical thing that came in during 628 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: the week. I'm going to scrub out the person's name. 629 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: It's this piece of correspondent says mister X was in 630 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: debt after the tenants trashed the investment property, but rather 631 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: than letting it ruin him, it changed his life. In 632 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: just four years, this Brisbane based investor flipped twenty seven properties, 633 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: built a four million portfolio, made two million in profit 634 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: and launched I love this last bit, a half a 635 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: million a month coaching business. And now he's on a 636 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: mission to teach us all how to build wealth. Now, 637 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: the reason I bring this up is I don't know 638 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: this person. I don't want to know this person. There's 639 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: piles of them out there, but a lot of our 640 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: listeners and a lot of everyday Australians that's the rich list. 641 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: They see it. They admire those people. These people arrive 642 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: in front of them and they promise rich riches made 643 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: fast and easy. 644 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 2: The sacreds of making your success. I'm not sure whether 645 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 2: that five hundred a month is his income from the 646 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 2: coaching or that's what he's charging. So either way, it's 647 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 2: pretty outrageous if you were to call it that. Yeah, 648 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 2: you're right. There's the notions of seminars to how to 649 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 2: build your property wealth and that sort of thing that 650 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 2: cropped up and never ran. There's a lot of this 651 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 2: stuff and I feel that that look firstly, you know, 652 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 2: you really have to get qualified advice on a whole 653 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 2: bunch of things. 654 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: But what only have the people on this list ever 655 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: go and listen to a coach talking about flipping properties 656 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,719 Speaker 1: and how much they've made from coaching themselves, from coaching 657 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: others to make money. I mean, would only have the 658 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: people on to anything. 659 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 2: Like this, No, not in a million years, but their 660 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 2: kids go with their next generation. No, I think, I 661 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 2: think you've got to weed out. I mean that would 662 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 2: be just very skeptical about this sort of thing. There's 663 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 2: a lot of hangers on. There's a lot of people 664 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 2: trying to sort of learn about these things that I 665 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 2: think the best thing really you've got to take advice 666 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 2: in the mainstream. You could probably learn just as much 667 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 2: from reading the Riches to fifty and pulling out the 668 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 2: key lessons from what the successful people have done. And 669 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 2: there's always quite a few perennial things overcoming setbacks and 670 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 2: forcing the moments that you don't necessarily need to fork 671 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 2: out tens of thousands of dollars for But I think 672 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 2: even if you want to invest in something like this, 673 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 2: there's funds these days that invest in found all led companies. 674 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 2: Even that's some sort of a proxy for taking on 675 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 2: the advice or the acumen of founders or wealthy people. 676 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 2: So there's other avenues of doing it. But this notion 677 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 2: that wealth can be taught in this way is I 678 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 2: think it's a pretty false one. 679 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: Okay, I thought i'd put that question out there listeners. 680 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: I don't normally as I say, but I thought this 681 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: was the time to do it, because when we do 682 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: a show like this, to some extent, you have to 683 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: be careful. You don't necessarily want it. Well, you're championing 684 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: people on the rich list, but it's their business and 685 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: investment acumen, not necessarily we don't always know what they're 686 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: actually like. Just one that's saying, Luke asks, I was 687 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: wondering if we could have a deep dive into shares 688 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: versus property. I feel the main reason people believe property 689 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: outperforms is the leverage. Also the bank's willingness to provide 690 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: credit for property over shares. Yeah, you're onto something there, Luke, 691 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: Property versus shares, And then it's something that we could 692 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: talk We have a show about it every other month, 693 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: but we should have one about it because it comes 694 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: up all the time. And the first part I want 695 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: to make you is that this thing about that properly 696 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 1: because it's leverage, is something misleading. You can get leverage 697 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: on shares. You can negatively gear shares just as much 698 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: as easily as you can negatively gear property. In fact, 699 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: it would be considerably easier and less taxing in many ways. 700 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: But we will talk about that on Tuesday show, The 701 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: Budget Day Show with Anthony Keane coming up, and of 702 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: course we'll have the budget next week, which is March 703 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: twenty five. I have never recalled a budget where there 704 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 1: was so little in the way of leaks or information 705 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 1: or anticipation, probably because they say the government didn't want 706 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: to have it, but they're going to have it. And 707 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: I will be on with Will Hamilton and we will 708 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: do our annual budget show, and don't you worry, we 709 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: will find plenty to talk about until then. Thank you, 710 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 1: Thank you John stand Soult from The Rich two fifty. 711 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 2: Thank you James. 712 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: Great to have you in the studio today, and thank 713 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: you for listening.