WEBVTT - Zoë Foster Blake: “How am I doing it all? At great cost” 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:09.320 Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About the Stella Podcast. 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.360 I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and every week I sit 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:14.440 down with some of the biggest names in the country 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.919 because when Australia's celebrities are ready to talk, they come 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:21.680 to Something to talk about. With eighteen books to her name, 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:24.320 a cult beauty brand she sold for big bucks and 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:27.400 brought back for a steal, not to mention, a household 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.800 featuring two children, a gold Logie winning husband, and a 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:34.560 couple of Instagram famous cats, the life of Zoe Foster 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.800 Blake is not exactly calm, which is why her new book, 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:42.320 her first novel in ten years, is called Things Will 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:46.360 Calm Down Soon, because as anyone who finds themselves saying 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:50.440 just that several times a week knows chances our things 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:55.280 almost certainly will not calm down soon. Zoe joins me 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.200 in the Something to Talk About studio today to discuss 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.200 the cost benefit juggle of multi ventures, how going into 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:06.479 business quote knowing nothing unquote turned out to be everything, 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:11.000 the reality and importance of failure behind the public success, 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:16.120 and how her art often imitates her life. Zoe Foster Blake, 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:17.640 Welcome to the Stellar podcast. 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:18.920 Oh thank you for having me. 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:22.880 It's lovely to have you here. Congratulations on your new book. 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:25.800 I have to talk to you about the title. These 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.399 will calm down soon. Okay, So I say this at 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:33.760 least five times a week. Thank you five times a day? Actually, 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.959 what am I saying? How many times a day do 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:40.720 you say it? Or you were reformed? Things will calm down? 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:44.640 So sayer it's my It will be in my gravestone. 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.400 It is the best lie that I reel out all 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:50.240 the time, to the point where my husband does rolls 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:52.640 his eyes because of course it will, he goes, Do 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:54.760 you understand that this is just the life now? This 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.640 is the beat of your life. But particularly when I 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.520 was writing this character and these moments in my life, 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.160 when I was as busy as her, I just had 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:05.640 to It was almost like I had to keep telling 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:07.960 myself that just to get through. You kind of get 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.919 into that survivor mentality when you're super super slammed and 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.800 knowing that it will calm down eventually. Is the carrot? 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:18.960 Isn't it a dangle? But most women I know say 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:21.160 this on the rig It's just how we live our life, 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:23.079 not things will come down soon. Things come down soon, 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.079 and I guess what it doesn't. 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.440 It's so interesting what you say because you really do 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:31.160 believe it. 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:35.040 Well, yeah, because what's the alternative is going this is 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:37.440 how my life will always be. And I think if 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:40.880 you were in a state of business that was, you know, 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:44.639 break down adjacent, that would be quite demoralizing. So I 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:46.160 think you have to tell yourself, oh no, this is 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:47.880 just a moment in time and it will pass. And 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.160 it does, you know, and for me, especially at ebbs 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.440 and flows, because I have big, big moments where I've 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:55.800 got four projects in the go and then they're finished, 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:57.520 and then I do actually have a bit of calm 0:02:57.560 --> 0:02:58.720 and then it will kick off again. 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.560 So it's you know, your character in Things will calm 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:05.040 down soon. Kit our main protagonist. She's a single mother 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.760 navigating the complexities of establishing a beauty product business while 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:14.520 managing personal responsibilities. It's your first adult fiction novel in 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.880 a decade? What was it like reentering that world? 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.359 Long overdue? But you have to wait for the good idea, 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:26.000 the one that really persists, and it's almost like a 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.000 bug in your head. Until you work it and do 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:33.040 it, it's not going to go away. However, I really hadn't 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:35.480 had that idea because I'd had young children and I 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.200 was so focused on the business. So I was doing nonfiction, 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:42.000 which felt a lot easier, and picture books. I've written 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:46.000 seven in the last five or six years because they're small, 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:50.680 intense projects, but a big novel is like deep focus 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.200 for a really extended period, and I just didn't have 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.680 that concentration. So it wasn't until my youngest went to 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:58.760 school last year that I finally had a breather. But 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:03.120 also the of the book, I had some big business 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.920 moments that really made me feel like, oh, oh, now 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:08.440 you have your content. Now you have the thing that 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:11.280 you need to write about. Go do it while it's fresh. 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.800 Because in some of the background notes to the book, 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:18.240 it talks about how it's quite an authentic portrayal of 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.640 a founder's journey. I have read it and I have 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:26.080 not founded a business of maybe founding a magazine is 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.320 part of it, but it feels very real but also 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:33.080 very illuminating to of course those of us that definitely 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:37.360 haven't had that experience. I imagine in of course your 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.840 nonfiction books, there's a lot of research in fiction, there 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:45.200 can be a lot of research that authenticity is that 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:50.560 because that helps you unplug to a way where the 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.159 storytelling flows a bit more naturally. Oh, let's be honest, 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.120 because you are busy, Is it just to cut down 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:57.279 on the need for research. 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.479 I'm not a researcher, hand on heart, like it's it's 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.080 not my wheelhouse. I'm very good at creating worlds and 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.520 characters and stories, and fiction is for me really fun 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.920 and liberating and playful. When I get tied down to research, 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:12.559 I feel like I'm back at UNI and it feels 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:16.679 like a big, arduous task. So I really the essence 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:18.320 of this book was that I went through a really 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.560 big thing when I sold half of my business, and 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:25.040 that world of mergers and acquisitions and selling and all 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:28.200 of these this business world that I hadn't known about 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:30.200 or been part of, was sort of thrown at me, 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.760 and I had to really get my shit together very quickly. 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:36.240 And I learned so much because of the brilliant people 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.919 around me, advising and lawyers and my chairperson and my team, 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:45.000 that I felt almost like it was my duty to 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.000 pay that forward and pay it on because I went 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:52.440 in knowing nothing. I was a creative and a writer 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:54.559 and an author who started a business because I wanted 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.159 to write copy and make good things in correct community. 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:02.120 And then suddenly I'm in a room seriously fifteen men 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:06.800 in suits selling and defending my business against people who 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.520 are hardwired and trained to cut you down and NEGGI 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.280 because they want a better price, for example. So I 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.120 had to I had to grow very quickly and learn 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.479 a lot. And I thought, if I knew the things 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:20.720 I knew now, like I'm twelve years into business, if 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.120 I could share that with young founders or new founders. 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.160 I feel like that would be a generous thing to do. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:28.400 But I did want to write a business book because 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:29.760 there are a lot of business books out there and 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.080 they're really great. I have the privilege and luck to 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.600 be able to write fiction, so why not create a 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:37.880 fictional world that you can if you're interested and if 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.360 you're in that world of founding And I'm ef when 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:42.840 they're looking at my friendship group, I reckon maybe eighty 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.039 percent of them have their own business. And that could 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.480 be they have an osteo business, or they're selling clothes 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.480 or whatever it may be. But a lot of them 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.400 are in this world where they're like, oh, I was 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.640 thinking about taking investment, but should I don't know how, 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.800 And so from the whole gamut of startup right through 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.800 to exit, I feel like there's something you can take 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.360 from it. But if that's not of interest, you still 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:03.080 get a good story. 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:09.000 When you're writing, do you filter or preempt what some 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.320 of the reaction will be, because I imagine, of course every write, 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:15.000 every creative deals with that. But then you're also very 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:18.080 high profile, so you know that there'll be people thinking, well, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:19.360 is this memoir? 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:21.679 Is this kit your character? 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:25.400 Or is this Zoe? And then you know there's people 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:27.160 in media. I mean, you're the sort of person where 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:29.320 if you post something on social it could be like 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:33.880 a clickbait story two minutes later. It's a question for 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:37.280 every writer, of course, but everyone brings their own story 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:39.400 and their own profile to it, and you've got a 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:44.280 very complicated part to work through there in terms of reception. 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:46.560 How much of that do you let in or lock 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:47.880 out during the process? 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.920 A great question, and it's really really at the forefront 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.360 of my mind, and that is exactly where I write fiction, 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.840 because fiction gives you the chance to really go for 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:02.040 it and take maybe character essences or you know, a 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:03.760 lot of the people in the book are the amalgamation 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.480 of five or six people. And that's my favorite part 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.280 about fiction is becoming a magpie for the two years 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.160 writing and writing down little notes or idiosyncrasies from people 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.800 or conversations, and you know, being in those boardrooms with 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.040 private equity, just sort of taking notes on what they're wearing, 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:22.760 what they say, and how they behave. So it is 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:27.160 hand on heart fiction. However, lived experience obviously informed the project, 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:31.440 and there is that through line of wisdom and business 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.480 acumen that I wanted to impart. But yeah, I feel 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.440 like it's a pretty safe book in terms of I'm not, 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.160 you know, going out there with any strongly held views. 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:45.320 It's a one person's trajectory and it's not mine. It's 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.839 not how my business life went. But there are a 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:52.120 lot of similar experiences, so yeah, my family can read 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.440 it and go, that's not us, for example. You know, 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:56.240 it's that sort of thing that you're like, no one's 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.479 reading that, going, oh, yeah, I know, that is what's. 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.400 Your actual day to day writing process about if I 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:06.760 can ask about that, because you explained why you thought 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.560 maybe the timing was right the youngest had gone to school, 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:11.680 but you do as we've just touched upon you've got 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.800 an awful lot going on, do you sit down and 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.200 do you have that being of setting a timer like 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:19.920 I tried to set the tim up before we started chatting. 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:21.680 And if so, I hope you're a lot more a debt. 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.240 So at using a time in the meat or is 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.840 it something that you do late at night? Is it daily? No? 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:32.360 No, I'm not a night bird at all. The biggest 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.920 hurdle I had was that I finished our first deal, 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.640 which was selling half of the company, and then signed 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:40.240 the book deal and I was like, great, you know, 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.600 it's all fresh, I can write it now, I've got time. 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:46.640 And then, unfortunately the people we sold it to and 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:51.480 into administration last year, so very quickly, I went from 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.280 writing about a deal to being back in a deal 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:56.880 at a time when I really hadn't allowed the bandwidth 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.319 to be back on phone calls and zooms and in meetings, 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:02.760 you know, every week a week, So that certainly added 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.920 a complication. It was helpful because I was back in 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.560 the language and back in those boardrooms, but also it 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.360 was confusing because I was trying to write a fictional 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:12.760 deal while work out what I was going to do 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.240 in my real life deal and it was too much. 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.880 It was really confusing and hard and having those two 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.520 streams running at once. But the way I would write, 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:24.520 and the way I've always written well since having kids, 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.800 is that fresh in the morning with coffee, that's the 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:29.280 only way it's going to get done, because as soon 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.880 as I start doubling an email and or even going 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.280 for a walk, my brain just changes and it's like, oh, okay, 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:36.920 we're doing the day now. So even if it's only 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.920 forty minutes, ideally it's ninety, you know, an hour and 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.000 a half, two hours. I feel like I get more 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.960 done in those first furious hours than if I sat 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:47.600 at my computer and said, I'm going to write till 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.439 three o'clock pickup, and I'm going to get so much done, 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:52.560 Because I know my brain. It gets bored, it gets 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.240 distracted then. And that's partly why I run a business. 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:57.960 I write books in various veins, is because I like 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.800 switching between projects. That's when I met my best I think. 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.560 I can't imagine that you could have created the life 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.400 and the career that you've had if you weren't good 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:10.960 at that, because of course there would be a bit 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.080 of a learned skill and time management and wearing different hats, 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.560 which is something I wanted to ask you about. Is 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.160 something that you can hone, but there must be a 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.640 very strong, innate part of you that is able to 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:27.760 compartmentalize and set yourself sort of achievable bite sized goals 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:28.280 if you like. 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:31.120 Yeah, that's true, and this is a big one like this. 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.120 I came in at about one hundred and thirty words, 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.600 which was thirty thousand too many, but those wondering, But 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:40.880 it does flow from me. When I'm writing. I write 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.160 too much, and I'd rather have too much and trim 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.680 it down find the gems, rather than not have enough 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:48.880 and be squished squeezing and pushing and trying to find 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.960 something else. So I'm an overwriter. I'm a waffler even 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.320 when I speak. And so I have a brilliant copy 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:58.680 editor and team and publisher who helped me get it 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.559 really tight and good. So yeah, for me, writing is 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.480 actually a joy, and it gets towards the end when 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:06.439 I have to start writing four or five hours a 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.720 day to get it to meet deadlines, and then I feel, 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:11.680 like I've always said, it's like I have an illicit 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.040 boyfriend in the office and I keep sneaking away to 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.600 hang out with him, because I just I'm like, put 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:18.240 the kids in and down in the next snake up 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.160 and just do ten minutes more and it becomes obsessive. 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:25.640 Almost even the edit is like that. So yeah, it 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.560 doesn't feel like work. It's a true joy and I 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:29.840 can't wait to start again. 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.880 Honestly really, So yeah, you're already thinking a little bit 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.640 about maybe the next fiction project. 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:39.280 I am, and I'm actively telling myself to stop because 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:41.040 I have to, you know, I want to promote this 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.280 one properly and give it everything. I have a children's 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.960 book out as well at the moment, and go To 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.040 is on their verge of some really big and fun things. 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:53.200 So I've got to just stop and not undertaking new 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.480 project as yet. But a good novel idea part of 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.160 the job, and so much of it actually is the 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.560 marinating of the idea, and that can take my life months. 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:02.760 You write down little notes and you start to conju 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.160 the idea, and you meet different people and you're like, oh, 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:06.520 that could be a good character, or that you hear 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:07.840 a little bit of gossip and you're like, oh, yeah, 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:09.880 that would be good. And then to the point when 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:11.880 I start writing next year, I will just be like, Okay, 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.120 most of it's there, just spit it out. 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.240 Yes, it's amazing, isn't it. I'm sure a lot of 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.319 people relate to that whatever project they might be working on, 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.679 even if some of us discover that when we're at 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:26.920 school or university or haven't started, haven't started. Sometimes the 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.960 sensible professor or best friend will say, I think you've 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:32.640 got more of it in your head than you know. 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.839 You're just sort of circulating it around. 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:37.480 Very generous way of looking at it. There is actually 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.120 a name for it. I can't think of the name, 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.319 but it's this idea of like it's not too much 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:46.200 procrastinating for a lot of creatives, where the artists, musicians, writers, 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.160 it's actually a huge part of the process is building 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.440 the idea mentally to the point where you get down 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.679 to your tools and it just comes because sitting there 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.840 like I can't really work without a deadline, A bit useless. 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.160 I always say, I'm not getting a deadline in this project. 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:02.400 I just want to write when I want to write. 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.760 But if no one's over me, I won't do it well. 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:08.640 One of your, of course, first professional incarnations, was as 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.080 a beauty editor on a magazine, and anyone that works 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.240 in media knows deadline is incarnate. And I remember one 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.319 of my first editors saying to me, it's like all 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:18.319 the kids that were at high school and left their 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.840 homework until the very very last minute, all sort of 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.680 meet again in the newsroom. So magazines or whatever it 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.440 is that is like a deadline operated industry. 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:32.600 Oh yeah, I'm absolutely useless without a deadline. My team 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:34.360 at go Too knows that all too well, and I 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:36.760 asked them to give me fake deadlines too, So I'm like, 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.160 when do you really need it? And I'm like, lie 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.520 to me, tell me it's a week earlier. 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:43.960 Does that work though, because you're a smart woman, so 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:44.880 do your brain well. 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.040 Then I forget about that. And I also set my 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:48.800 watch a little bit off too, so that I've always 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.200 got a fake deadline there because I need that extra 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:51.760 ten minutes. 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.760 I find also sometimes as a parent, it's always interesting 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:59.800 seeing different characteristics manifesting in your children. What it despite 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.600 often your best intentions to steer them in another direction 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.920 and at the risk of boring the listeners with homework 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.280 stories from my fascinating household, but I will just say 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.920 that my son had an assignment due the other week, 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.040 and I actually knew about it a week in advance, 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.680 and I was doing that reminding sort of it's coming, 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:21.360 nagging thing every night, and of course it wasn't going 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.640 to happen. And in the end he's just turned thirteen. 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.400 He actually said, I just can't do it until the 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:28.800 very last minute, Mum. That's when I crack it. And 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.120 I was like, oh, that's happening again. Another one by. 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.120 We can't judge right because we're like, we're exactly the same. 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.920 That's why I wanted a different part. But I'm like, 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.160 I just don't know if I can fight nature with 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:42.960 nurture in this instant. 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.680 Because Hamish and I are exactly the same. We laugh 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.360 about how we've had a month to do it, and 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:49.160 then we do it in the last twenty four hours. 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.480 It's terrible. So I've set this thing up with our 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.560 kids homework. I'm like, it's you know, eminem Monday. So 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:56.920 on Monday after school we get home and we try 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:58.800 and get all the homework done in that one or 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.520 two hours, and I give him treats to get them 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.320 through because I don't want to be the nager for 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:04.680 the rest of the week. And I know they'll do 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.600 it Thursday night if they've give them the chance. So 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.120 I try and instill that in them that get it 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.720 done early. Then you can chill it's not really working. 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.520 And coming up the mental load of being Zoe Foster Blake. 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.800 I wanted to talk about specifically with the fiction that 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:31.880 you've written over the course of your career and the 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.200 different chapters of your life, if you'll forgive the pun 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.280 that you've drawn on at different points, Zoe. So, your 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.760 first novel, for instance, Air Kisses was about a magazine 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:46.920 beauty editor, funnily enough, working as a beauty editor at Cosmopolitan, 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.080 and of course, as we've talked about and things will 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.320 come down soon, it's about the founder of a beauty company. 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.960 We've talked a little bit about unpacking the fact and 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.520 fiction and how much you draw from your own life. 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.440 What I've probably not going to give away what the 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:06.240 next book is about, but do you foresee what possibly 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:10.560 future chapter of your life could inspire another novel. 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.159 I think I'm in that stage where I have a 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:18.480 lot of really great mum friends. So from my kids, 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.240 you know, in whatever year they're in, the parents that 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.159 are around that, and then I've got some friends of 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:25.560 mine who are a bit further down the track, and 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:29.400 the difference in the mums and dads at Kinney versus 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.560 you know, year twelve where like more than fifty percent 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.439 of divorced, and you know, it's such a different area. 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:38.679 So I'm quite fascinated, always have been with relationships and 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:43.800 relationship dynamics, but also friendships. And I think female friendships 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:48.000 and the sisterhood is really compelling to me and really 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:52.679 valuable as a person as well. So I read this 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:56.680 thing the other day where apparently seventy percent of what 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.040 gen Z are choosing in terms of movies and streamers 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.800 and books are about friendships rather than romantic relationships, because 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.600 that's everything to them. So I really feel like that's 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:11.320 an area of interest for me, that real love of friendship, 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.000 not just and through all of my books often the 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.280 romance is very very much second or third to the 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:21.280 career story and the friendship story, which is what I like. 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.720 It's so true, isn't it. And I think so much 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.440 of the culture that women have resonated with, whether it's 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.000 some of the most iconic novels of our time through 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:36.919 to even really iconic pieces of work such as you know, 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.120 Sex and the City, just for a very like sort 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:43.240 of a media example, is about the beauty, the complexity, 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:49.919 the grief, the loyalty that's so unique to friendship, and 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:54.920 particularly female friendship. It's very strangely outside of a lot 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:59.200 of these examples, it's not something that we still celebrate 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.120 and it's still a little bit of that fairy tale 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:07.280 ever after, like there's one sort of journey quote unquote 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:08.440 for a woman. 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:10.479 And as we all know, it's really not like that 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.400 in real life, and life is so much more complicated 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:18.520 and challenging and fabulous and varied. But I love female 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:20.600 friendships and I'm fascinated by them, particularly when you get 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.080 to an age where you've seen your friends go through 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:26.240 horrific grief, as you say, whether it's miscarriages or infertility, 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.880 or divorce or losing their parents. And I think that 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.080 area is really fascinating to play. How they support each other. 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.320 And of course your partner is number one in family 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.480 is a whole other level. But what you can offer 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.679 as a friend, and I love that, And again it's 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.920 that empathy and just girls are great, women are amazing. 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.320 You mentioned in your own friendship circle, like about eighty 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:50.600 percent have possibly founded a business. I wanted to talk 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:54.760 a little bit. We've discussed your very successful business go 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:58.480 To and the role and the insight that founding a 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.119 business plays. Things will calm down soon, and I just 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.840 wanted to chat a little bit about that because it 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:09.960 has been Zoe a phenomenal success story. Go To, as 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:14.320 you say, gone through very extreme highs and lows with 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.800 selling and then reselling and things that, to be honest, 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:20.520 someone like me that has to be talked very carefully 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:22.919 through a spreadsheet wouldn't understand. But that's part of what 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:24.400 I really wanted to talk to a. 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:25.160