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Speaker 1: Okay, I tell them it's the bloody you projected, Harps,

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Speaker 1: It's it's Meggie. It's I feel like this is going

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Speaker 1: to be fifty minutes of fucking mayhem. But that's all right.

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Speaker 1: We've known each other, Yeah, we've known each other for

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Speaker 1: a rock solid three minutes, and it's it's we're already

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Speaker 1: having issues, which could be a sign of things to come. O. Meggie,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. What a tree? What a tree?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Sure? Where are you tell my? Tell my audience

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Speaker 1: where you're at at the minute.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So I live in New York City. I actually

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Speaker 2: moved to Brooklyn.

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Speaker 1: So that's right.

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Speaker 2: I'm in my in my home office in Brooklyn, New York.

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Speaker 1: Why why did you move there? What? What what took

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Speaker 1: you there?

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Speaker 2: I guess adventure. I guess growth from a business perspective

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Speaker 2: and a personal perspective, and I guess, like, why not? Although,

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Speaker 2: now that I reflect on it, now that you've asked

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Speaker 2: me that question, and you did, we did talk about

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Speaker 2: a commitment to be very courageous and open and honest

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Speaker 2: in this conversation. So I want to try. I want

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Speaker 2: to stay true to that. I think part of the

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Speaker 2: reason honestly, Craig. Where I left was I found it

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Speaker 2: a business focused on the gender pay gap and really

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Speaker 2: a lot of unconscious bias that exists. And at the

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Speaker 2: time when I left Australia seven or eight years ago,

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Speaker 2: I didn't really feel like I could have as many

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Speaker 2: open conversations about that topic I would have liked. And

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Speaker 2: I found that in New York City people were more

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Speaker 2: open to having those conversations. I think that's different now.

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Speaker 2: I think Australia has changed a lot since then, But

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Speaker 2: at the time I kind of felt like I needed

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Speaker 2: to go somewhere where people were more willing to have

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Speaker 2: those conversations.

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Speaker 1: How did you fit into Because New York is pretty chaotic.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing, it's beautiful, it's a fucking tapestry of humanity

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Speaker 1: and all of those things, but it's also bedlam. How

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Speaker 1: have you fitted in? Ah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it can be chaotic for sure. And you know

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Speaker 2: what's so interesting Being in Brooklyn now, I'm like, ah,

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Speaker 2: just that little bit more zan, which I love. Look,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was really lucky when I moved to

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Speaker 2: New York. People Americans, well maybe not Americans. New Yorkers

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Speaker 2: are very generous and open with their networks. Certainly that

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Speaker 2: was my experience. So you'd meet someone who'd introduce you

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Speaker 2: to someone, who'd invite you to a party, who'd introduce

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Speaker 2: you to someone. So I kind of felt very adopted

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Speaker 2: and very hugged and very embraced. But there's also very

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Speaker 2: niche communities here, Craig. So, like, if you are, you know,

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Speaker 2: a guitar playing softball loving, I don't know, Vegan, you

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Speaker 2: can find your people, you know what I mean. So

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Speaker 2: there's a lot like very specific like women entrepreneur communities.

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Speaker 2: Like so I kind of like found my people and

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Speaker 2: that was really hard.

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Speaker 1: So where'd you grow up? Meggie?

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Speaker 2: So I grew up on a farm west of the

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Speaker 2: Gold Coast in a place called Guanaba, like a small farm,

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Speaker 2: grew up there, so school on the Goldie shout out

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Speaker 2: to sea, Queensland is listening. And went to Brisbane to

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Speaker 2: study and then you know, traveled all over the East

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Speaker 2: and Seaboard to different cities for work as a journalist.

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Speaker 1: Wow. And have you family come over to visit you

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Speaker 1: in New York?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Super lucky they come over. We have a visitor

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Speaker 2: at least once a year, if not more times than

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Speaker 2: that a year which is also get to have quality

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Speaker 2: time with them here as well.

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Speaker 1: So what was your first gig out of school or

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Speaker 1: what did you study? I know you went to UNI.

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Speaker 1: I know I know the answer to some of these questions,

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Speaker 1: But what did you study at UNI? So?

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Speaker 2: I studied business and journalism when I was at UNI,

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Speaker 2: and I majored in What are I major? In? Public relations?

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Speaker 2: And Italian? I think was what I majored in.

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Speaker 1: I heard it was beer and nightclubs.

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Speaker 2: But okay, well, yeah, that's that's well, that's true. Actually,

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Speaker 2: So I went to college. I lived on campus at

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Speaker 2: Cromwell College, shout out to any Cromwellians. And I really

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Speaker 2: got a degree in party a master's in partying. Shall

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Speaker 2: we say?

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Speaker 1: Nice? Nice? Yeah? What did you think? What? What did

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Speaker 1: you think you were going to do when you left?

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Speaker 1: What was the was the intention to be a journo?

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Speaker 2: No, it's a weird thing, isn't it. Like when you're

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Speaker 2: like seventeen, you're basically like, what don't I do with

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Speaker 2: the next fifty years of my life? It's so weird.

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Speaker 2: I just remember, like, you know, like skimming through that

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Speaker 2: book where you could like choose all the different courses,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, it was just like throwing a

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Speaker 2: dart at a random book. It's so random to make

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Speaker 2: that decision at such a young age. I just wanted

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Speaker 2: to do something with people and right, and I didn't

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Speaker 2: know I didn't really want to be a journal I

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Speaker 2: actually had an ex boyfriend who threw a random set

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Speaker 2: of circumstances in some ways influenced me to end up

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Speaker 2: becoming a journalist.

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Speaker 1: So there you go. It is. It is weird, right

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Speaker 1: that at seventeen I was Some would argue I'm still

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Speaker 1: a more on, but I was definitely a more on

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Speaker 1: at seventeen, right, I was a fucking I'm not even

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Speaker 1: being self deprecating. I was a fucking idiot in terms

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Speaker 1: of I didn't study it. No, I really was. I

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Speaker 1: didn't pay attention. It's preoccupied with girls in sport. You know.

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Speaker 1: My vision for the future was about three days write.

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Speaker 1: Anything beyond that was overwhelming. And then they're like, exactly,

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Speaker 1: especially when I was a kid, they're like, all right,

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Speaker 1: so what do you want to do for let's say,

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Speaker 1: othern't know the next half century. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: I want to do next Tuesday, right, right, So.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember this cra I felt

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Speaker 2: so much pressure. I went to a very academic high school, though,

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Speaker 2: but I just felt like there was a lot of

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Speaker 2: pressure to like you had to go to you just

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Speaker 2: like I don't know, it's just a lot on kids' shoulders,

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Speaker 2: Like it's a lot. I just think we should all

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Speaker 2: chill out. Life is long, you know.

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Speaker 1: I also think the idea that you need to find

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Speaker 1: the thing that you're going to do for the next

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Speaker 1: one hundred years is a dumb idea. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's founded in any logic, and I guess through necessity

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Speaker 1: in the olden days, you know, before you were around.

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Speaker 1: But I get it. But also at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I think, now it's like my training partner, his daughter

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Speaker 1: I've been I've known since she was a baby, and

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Speaker 1: she's nineteen now. She's just doing a gym instructor's course

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Speaker 1: and she doesn't really know what she's fitness instructor PT

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Speaker 1: all that stuff, and she's asking me because of my background,

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Speaker 1: she's asking me questions every seven minutes, right, And I see,

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Speaker 1: do you know what, it doesn't matter like do it

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Speaker 1: for ten minutes. You might love it, you might hate it.

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Speaker 1: You could be a fucking neurosurgeon. In ten years, you

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Speaker 1: could be a pilot, you could be you can be

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Speaker 1: what you know. It's like, you do not need to

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Speaker 1: figure it out now, figure out what you want to

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Speaker 1: do in the short term. Do that because you might,

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Speaker 1: I reckon, like a lot of forty year olds in

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Speaker 1: the future are going to have had fifteen careers by

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Speaker 1: the time they get there.

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Speaker 2: Totally, totally, so it's okay. Well, and to your point,

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Speaker 2: sometimes figuring out what you don't want to do is

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Speaker 2: just as powerful that's figuring out what you do want

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Speaker 2: to do. Like I remember being like fourteen or fifteen

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Speaker 2: and we had to do work experience and I was

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Speaker 2: like very argumentative, shocker, love to argue with my dad, debating, etc.

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Speaker 2: I was that kid anyway. So I was like, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be a lawyer. That's going to be great.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's like, yeah, you're going to be a lawyer. So

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Speaker 2: I did work experience with a QC like some fancy

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Speaker 2: lawyer in Brisbane, and it was like it was the worst.

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Speaker 2: Like I just remember these misogynistic lawyers in the elevator.

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Speaker 2: I remember the way they looked at her, even though

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Speaker 2: she was like more senior than them. The way they

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Speaker 2: was just gross. And then the way they would look

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Speaker 2: at me, and I just knew. I was like, they're

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Speaker 2: never going to take me seriously, like they're always going

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Speaker 2: to treat me as a second class citizen in this industry.

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Speaker 2: I just kind of just and I was like, I

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Speaker 2: just can't handle that. I'm going to get myself into trouble.

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Speaker 2: So I just decided not to do law because of

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Speaker 2: that work experience.

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Speaker 1: Wow experience.

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Speaker 2: So it's good though. I'm glad because otherwise I would

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Speaker 2: have done law, and who knows where I would have

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Speaker 2: ended up.

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Speaker 1: How old were you when you had that experience, I.

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Speaker 2: Reckon I was. I must have been fourteen or fifteen.

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Speaker 2: I was so young, but I just knew. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: because you know, when you're little and you're in a

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Speaker 2: school or whatever, you don't really know the real world

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Speaker 2: and how like people discriminate. And also, to be fair,

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Speaker 2: you know, very privileged to have not experienced discrimination up

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Speaker 2: until that point. But I was just like I just

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Speaker 2: kind of became really aware of misogyny and just like

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Speaker 2: I was just I could just sense it. It was

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Speaker 2: a really weird experience, but I just knew. I was like,

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Speaker 2: it's not for me.

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Speaker 1: Wow, And so how old are you now?

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Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm forty. Just had the big.

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Speaker 1: Foun Hell you're a dinosaur, al.

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Speaker 2: Right, halfway to eighty, let's go.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to get a context of what

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Speaker 1: year that experience was. So that must have been really

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Speaker 1: late nineties, right, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yep, late yeah, ninety eight ninety nine.

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Speaker 1: And so we're quarter of a century later. Has it

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Speaker 1: changed a lot, a bit or not at all?

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Speaker 2: What a great question. No, I think it has absolutely.

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Speaker 2: I think it's changed, I really do. I mean, listen,

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Speaker 2: does that still exist? Maybe I should do work experience

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Speaker 2: in a law firm again. Perhaps, but I imagine it's

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Speaker 2: more veiled now. I imagine it's not as overt as

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Speaker 2: it was back then. I think we've made progress, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: and we will continue to make progress. So if you

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Speaker 2: look at the data, the un reckons we're two hundred

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Speaker 2: years away ish from equality, and so it's just like,

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Speaker 2: which is like, so the good news is we're making

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Speaker 2: progress progress. The bad news is it's taking too long.

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Speaker 2: In my humble opinion, So you know, my whole thing

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Speaker 2: is like, well, I could sit around for two hundred

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Speaker 2: years and see what happens or could try each of

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Speaker 2: us in our own way to make ripple effects today, tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: the next day, so that eventually things crossed, we get

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Speaker 2: to a tidal wave of change, so that hopefully those

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Speaker 2: sticks come down to a shorter timeframe.

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Speaker 1: And so with equality in this kind of financial sense,

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Speaker 1: you're talking like pay equality, I'm guessing it for this

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Speaker 1: particular Yeah, so I don't even I mean, I know

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Speaker 1: that it's real, but I don't even understand because I don't,

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Speaker 1: like I've employed five hundred people right over the years.

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Speaker 1: I don't even understand how that, like, if you're doing

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Speaker 1: the same thing, Like, how do people even justify that?

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Speaker 1: Because I remember you telling a story you were chatting

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Speaker 1: with Luke on his podcast.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Luke's the best.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've been on each other show I think,

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Speaker 1: or he's definitely been on this one. But and you

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Speaker 1: were talking about an experience that you had as a

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Speaker 1: journo where you that other people correct me if I

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Speaker 1: fuck this up, but doing the same thing as you

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Speaker 1: were getting paid more, and you went in and went, hey,

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Speaker 1: you guys, here's an oversight, you silly guys, just so

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Speaker 1: you know, and they went, no, that's just how it

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Speaker 1: is essentially yeah that the truth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, you didn't fuck that story up. You

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Speaker 2: nailed it. So yeah. So, And I think in my

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Speaker 2: experience and in a lot of experiences, when you think

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Speaker 2: about the gender pay gap, which impacts women and also minorities,

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Speaker 2: you know, women of color are impacted to a much

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Speaker 2: larger degree. When you think about that, most of it's

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Speaker 2: not conscious. So it's not like my boss, my old

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Speaker 2: news director, was like, yeah, let's screw over Meggie, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: let's do it. It's just like they had a pool of money,

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Speaker 2: they a couple of things. They probably knew that certain

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Speaker 2: people were going to blow up more than others if

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Speaker 2: they didn't get a certain number. And it's unconscious, right,

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Speaker 2: And so actually, come this is so wild. But if

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Speaker 2: you look, there's three separate studies in three different countries,

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Speaker 2: Craig that have actually shown that little girls get paid

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Speaker 2: less pocket money than little boys. And like, parents are

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Speaker 2: not assholes, and parents typically want to raise their kids fairly, right,

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Speaker 2: It's just that there's a perception that if I'm chopping

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Speaker 2: the wood with dad in the paddock or in the

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Speaker 2: backyard or whatever for the fireplace, that is quote unquote

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Speaker 2: tougher work than if someone is helping around the house

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Speaker 2: set the table for dinner, for example. So there is

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Speaker 2: a perception that certain types of work is tougher or

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Speaker 2: harder or whatever, and so there is a disproportionate value

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Speaker 2: put on that. So you know, women dominated industries are

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Speaker 2: massively paid less than men dominate industries. So for example,

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Speaker 2: like childcare and nursing are paid less than say banking

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Speaker 2: or insurance for example, which are more pale dominated. And

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Speaker 2: actually what happens is as more women go into certain industries,

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Speaker 2: the average wage in those industries starts to drop. So

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Speaker 2: it's a deep seated like generational bias that exists that

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Speaker 2: isn't even conscious for all of us, by the way,

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Speaker 2: I have unconscious bias, by the way, So you are

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Speaker 2: there things that we can do to make that more

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Speaker 2: conscious have shifted act to me, yes, But as you

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Speaker 2: know from your scientific background as well, like unconsciously, there's

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Speaker 2: things that just happen because it's what we saw in

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Speaker 2: the media, or it's what happened in preschool, or it's

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Speaker 2: what GRAMDMA used to say to us, you know, So

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Speaker 2: all of those factors as well as other factors like

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Speaker 2: for example, women do take more time out for caring responsibilities,

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Speaker 2: so that impacks the data as well, for sure. And

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Speaker 2: also women are socialized or girls are socialized to want

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Speaker 2: to do certain jobs like teaching, like nursing, which historically

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Speaker 2: have been paid less. So society has said, nurses, we're

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Speaker 2: going to value about here. Investment bankers, y'all are the

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Speaker 2: real deal. We're going to pay you a hell of

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Speaker 2: a lot more. So there's three major factors that impact it.

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Speaker 2: And as I say, a lot of that's not conscious necessarily.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and I think that, yeah, it ends up

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Speaker 1: where it ends up. But it's like it's it's financial,

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Speaker 1: it's sociological, it's cultural, it's psychological. Like you said, I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine too many parents are sitting around saying, all right,

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Speaker 1: well let's give her five bucks. Let's give him eight

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Speaker 1: bucks because he's got a penis. Yeah. You know, it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is really interesting. All right, tell me about pep

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Speaker 1: talk her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So basically to your story earlier, when I was

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Speaker 2: a journal found out through a male ally actually who

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Speaker 2: gave me a wink wink nudge nudge background info. He

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Speaker 2: was like, yo, you're getting screwed on pay. I was

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Speaker 2: like what never and and turns out, long story short,

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Speaker 2: I was getting paid less. My paying conditions were quite

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Speaker 2: different to my male colleagues, which I thought was bullshit. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: I decided to say something because that's how I was raised,

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Speaker 2: the debater in me. If you see something something and

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Speaker 2: let's just say it didn't go down too well, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so they were pissed off that I knew they were

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Speaker 2: pissed off that I wanted something done about it, and

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Speaker 2: so that was kind of the genesis for being like,

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Speaker 2: h if this is happening to me, I backed myself.

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Speaker 2: I knew I was an excellent journal I knew I'd

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Speaker 2: get another job. I was like, if it's happening to me,

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Speaker 2: other people must be getting raally screwed over to and

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Speaker 2: sure enough, again, I didn't really know much about it then.

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Speaker 2: I didn't understand the statistics. I didn't know that it's

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Speaker 2: fifteen to twenty percent of a pay gap, depending on

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Speaker 2: how you slice and dize the numbers. I didn't know

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Speaker 2: that was happening, and I became really interested. How could

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Speaker 2: you change it? So, long story short, I stayed as

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Speaker 2: a journal and foreign correspondent for a couple more years,

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Speaker 2: but on the side. I was kind of working on

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Speaker 2: this idea of pep talker and how could we close

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Speaker 2: the pay gap sooner? And how could I support professional

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Speaker 2: women to earn more cash and get promoted faster. Because

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Speaker 2: I'm a big believer, Craig, and I know you are too,

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Speaker 2: of like when women have more money, like, awesome things happen,

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Speaker 2: right because funny, use your choice. It gives you possibility.

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Speaker 2: It allows you to make different take different roads in

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Speaker 2: your life and your career.

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Speaker 1: And are we progressing slowly significantly somewhere in twin like

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Speaker 1: is the progress? Are you happy with the rate of

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Speaker 1: change and the rate of awareness and movement that you're seeing?

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Speaker 2: I mean, listen, obviously we'd all love to click our

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Speaker 2: fingers and say puff, it's all perfect, it's done, it's fixed,

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Speaker 2: it's it's you know, we're all quote unquote equal perfect.

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Speaker 2: We live in this nirvana world. Now, obviously, progress could

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Speaker 2: always be quicker. Someone said to me once, Actually I

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Speaker 2: was a journalist. He said, Maggie, it takes a long

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Speaker 2: time to turn a big ship, saying that three times quickly,

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Speaker 2: and you mentioned it. But anyway, so I think about

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Speaker 2: this idea of like a big ship turning. And when

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Speaker 2: you think about cultural change in the workplace, when you

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Speaker 2: think about societal change of equality of the gender pay gap,

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Speaker 2: it does take a long time. I wish I could

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Speaker 2: shove the ship around and fix it straight away, but

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Speaker 2: I'm learning that that's not the way the world works.

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Speaker 2: Do I wish it would change faster? Yes, Equally, you

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Speaker 2: and I having this conversation, like your listeners in ninety

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Speaker 2: countries around the world are thinking about this now and

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Speaker 2: I ruminating on it, and hopefully they'll talk about it

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Speaker 2: at dinner party, you know, Like to me, that's exciting.

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Speaker 2: And again collectively, as this happens more and more and more,

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Speaker 2: we will see more change. And we are seeing change.

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Speaker 2: So we saw we went backwards during COVID, but we

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Speaker 2: are again gradually progressing. The statistics and the data is

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Speaker 2: getting better. So actually, in Australia and also in the

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Speaker 2: United Kingdom, the major employers in the country have to

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Speaker 2: publicly report what their gender pay gap statistics are, So

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Speaker 2: if you work for a big company in the UK

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Speaker 2: or Australia, you can google that. In Australia it's called

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Speaker 2: wood GEA, the Women and Gender Equality Agency, And in

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Speaker 2: the UK, I can't remember it, but if you just

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Speaker 2: search gender pay gap United Kingdom you'll find And so

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Speaker 2: that transparency and openness in talking about it, yeah, is

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Speaker 2: making the companies go to share. We better fix that,

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Speaker 2: right because there's a spotlight wow, and it's on the

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Speaker 2: front page of the paper once even report comes out.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, policies changing, governments are starting to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: We're seeing superannuation top ups and retirement top ups in

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Speaker 2: certain countries for leave. So things are changing and in

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Speaker 2: my mind that's a good thing. I'd love it to

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Speaker 2: happen more and more and more, but it will. Let's

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Speaker 2: say this is generational change, so it's unfortunately going to

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Speaker 2: take a long time.

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Speaker 1: So I know you were argumentative and a debata, well

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Speaker 1: a debata and probably loved a good argument and loved

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Speaker 1: standing up for yourself and others, which is awesome. But

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Speaker 1: were you Were you always entrepreneurial? Like did you like

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Speaker 1: I was? I I hated having a job, yeah yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had my first business at night. Not really a hustler.

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Speaker 1: I just didn't like the traditional work model, Like I

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Speaker 1: haven't had a job in inverted commets since I was

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Speaker 1: twenty five, So yeah, like working for an employer. So

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Speaker 1: thirty five years I've worked for me, and I just

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Speaker 1: like the freedom and the flexibility and the creativity and

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Speaker 1: the problem solving and the growth and the experience that

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Speaker 1: comes with figuring shit out she go, and not having

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Speaker 1: not having sick pay and not having holiday pay, and

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Speaker 1: not having certainty and not having predictability. For whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: I thrive in the middle of that. And yeah, but

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Speaker 1: for you, was that always like did you want to

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Speaker 1: work for you or did you think you would work

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Speaker 1: for someone else forever?

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Speaker 2: I don't think I really knew, to be honest, Craig,

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Speaker 2: I think my Sisla, my sister is much more entrepreneurial

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Speaker 2: than I am. And to be honest, maybe I mean

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Speaker 2: my dad had his own business. He was an engineer

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Speaker 2: and had his own business. I don't think I really knew.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I knew when I you know, it

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Speaker 2: took me a long time to figure out that I

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Speaker 2: needed to create a new way of you know, funding

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Speaker 2: a paycheck and figuring out it took me until I

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Speaker 2: was probably at least thirty, yeah, maybe twenty nine to thirty.

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Speaker 2: But my sister, she was that person who, like everyone else,

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Speaker 2: was going to the mall, or you know, going to

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Speaker 2: parties on the weekends, and she was down on the

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Speaker 2: Gold Coast selling silver that she had imported from China

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Speaker 2: when she was fourteen. She was a true entrepreneur, I think.

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Speaker 2: So I learned a lot from her. And she now

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Speaker 2: owns very successful bakeries on the Gold Coast like Paddock

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Speaker 2: and Bam Bam, and she's got a big one down

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Speaker 2: at Talibudre called Custard Canteen. So she runs these amazing

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Speaker 2: bakeries and restaurants. So she's very entrepreneurial and I learned

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Speaker 2: a lot from her. I think for me it probably

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Speaker 2: was less in my blood as it was for her,

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Speaker 2: and it was more circumstance. So as a foreign correspondent,

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Speaker 2: you know, if there's a natural disaster, there's a big story,

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Speaker 2: something happens on Twitter or on you know, the BBC,

404
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Speaker 2: on breaking news, you potentially have to get your bag

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Speaker 2: and get to an airport. And I just didn't want

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Speaker 2: to live with my phone under my pillow when I

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Speaker 2: slept anymore. I was like I was I was moving

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Speaker 2: towards anxiety, and I was like, this is not healthy

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Speaker 2: for me, and I can't do this long term. And

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Speaker 2: I admire my colleagues who do, and I'm grateful that

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Speaker 2: they tell the stories around the world that we all

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Speaker 2: need to know about. But it just it wasn't gonna

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Speaker 2: be sustainable for me for the next forty years. So

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Speaker 2: I was like, hmm, what does it look like if

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Speaker 2: I'm not doing this? What transferable skills do I have?

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Speaker 2: So when I was journal I started as a side

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Speaker 2: hustle a media training company. So I started to figure

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Speaker 2: out what's an invoice, what's a profit margin? Like, how

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Speaker 2: do you make cash? How do you get someone to

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Speaker 2: buy from you? I don't know because I don't teach

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Speaker 2: you that stuff, even a business school like I didn't

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Speaker 2: teach us that even as a like, no one teaches

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Speaker 2: you know it, don't even get started.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting, sorry to interrupt, but not at all

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Speaker 1: in how many courses, even at university. Like when I

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Speaker 1: did my undergrad degree in exercise science, I was in

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Speaker 1: I was in my thirties, right, I'd already been working

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Speaker 1: in fitness industry for one hundred years, and I was amazed.

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Speaker 1: This is an indictment. I shouldn't even say it, but

430
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 1: this is true. So when a three year full time

431
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,400
Speaker 1: three year undergrad degree in exercise science. There was one

432
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 1: one semester which equaled twelve lectures on programming exercise in

433
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: a three year degree. Right, So there was of course,

434
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 1: you know, anatomy, physiology by maca all the other stuff,

435
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: but in terms of come out as an exercise scientist

436
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 1: and in the three years there was about twelve hours

437
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,399
Speaker 1: of how to write and prescribe exercise or how to

438
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 1: you know, And it was I'm like, oh wow. And

439
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: then when you think about even in you know, so

440
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 1: my PhD is in neuropsych and my undergrad is you know,

441
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 1: in exercise science. But you think about in how much

442
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,439
Speaker 1: of these jobs is dependent on your ability to create

443
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: connection and rapport and communicate and to understand other people

444
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 1: and to at least have an insight into someone else's

445
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: reality and to be able to build trust and respect

446
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 1: and create an experience with you know. None of that

447
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,119
Speaker 1: is taught, like, none of that, so we get I

448
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,119
Speaker 1: used to have people that would come to me with

449
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: sometimes honors and master's degrees, who would want a job

450
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 1: in one of my gyms. So one we're all personal training,

451
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: all appointment based, higher level stuff, right, and they would

452
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,239
Speaker 1: they were brilliant with bodies, but terrible with people. Like

453
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: they they would understand the anatomy and physiology of something,

454
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: but in terms of creating a great experience or having

455
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: a meaningful conversation, or or saying, hey, Meggie, how is

456
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,360
Speaker 1: your weekend? What did you get up to? By the way,

457
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 1: what you eat for brecky? Why the fuck did you

458
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 1: eat cocoa pops? What's going on? No capacity you know

459
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 1: and no one like it's And I've said this to

460
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people, whether or not you're a banker

461
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 1: or a trainer, or a doctor or a you know,

462
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: a service provider in some other area. If you can't

463
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 1: connect with people and build rapport and create great conversations

464
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 1: and understand someone else's version of right now and tap

465
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 1: into that and build trust, like you can't do your job.

466
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 2: Well, you can't. You can't get the change to happen.

467
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 2: You can't take it from A to B. If they

468
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 2: won't even walk with you to be they're like, fuck,

469
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,400
Speaker 2: there's this guy's the worst or this girl is the worst.

470
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 2: So I don't want to spend time with them. I

471
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 2: don't trust them.

472
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: Well, also, yeah, in the moment, having that understanding that

473
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: you know like you and I are in the same

474
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: conversation but not the same experience.

475
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 2: So let's unpack that a little more. Yeah, what does

476
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 2: that mean to you?

477
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,239
Speaker 1: So it means that while you know, like everything, that

478
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: every time you're in the middle of or I'm in

479
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 1: the middle of an experience like right now, we're looking

480
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: at that or we're experiencing it through our own lens,

481
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: through our own window of understanding, through our own inner language,

482
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 1: our own inner storytelling. So I might you know, like,

483
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 1: let's say, f now, for example, twenty thousand people, no,

484
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: let's make it a small number, ten people listen to

485
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: this show. Yeah, right now, someone's going, fucking hell, how

486
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: good's Meggie? And someone else is gone, eh, I don't know,

487
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: maybe that whole bullshit pay gap and right, so, oh,

488
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: Brian's there going fuck Meggie, what does she know? You

489
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: know whatever? Right, and someone else is going, oh, thank

490
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: god for this woman. She's a breath of fresh air, harps,

491
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: can you get her on again? So it's not about

492
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: what you're saying or I'm saying. It's about how people

493
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: experience and processes. And so we are you are, I am,

494
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: our listeners are consciously unconsciously creating their own reality without

495
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: knowing it. So when something happens in the world, then

496
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: you look through the Meg window and then you give

497
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 1: it meaning and value and you label it just like

498
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 1: Craig does. So you might look at something and go

499
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: that's fucking hilarious, and I look at it and I go, well,

500
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 1: that's highly offensive. Yeah, don't call me a cunt, right, yeah,

501
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: So when I say that.

502
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 2: In America, that word lands differently here.

503
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: Let me tell you one d So when I say

504
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: that word, you know, even now, there's a percentage of

505
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: people that when I wish you wouldn't say that word

506
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: Craig and I get it, and that's the reason I

507
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: said it. But there are ninety seven one of my

508
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: listeners who are like, ah, HAPs, he's a fucking idiot,

509
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: because it ain't about like you think about four letters

510
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: put together in a certain order. It doesn't mean anything

511
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: until we say it means something.

512
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 2: Until we give it that meaning, right.

513
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: And there will be other people listening to you talk about,

514
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: you know, the gender pay gap and be on the

515
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: edge of their seat. And by the way, I truly

516
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: think it is a great conversation and is a great cause,

517
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: and it's nest all that, right, So that's truly what

518
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 1: I think. But there'll be I would imagine a few dinosaurs,

519
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: not that many on my listenership, I wouldn't think, but

520
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 1: there will be people who would kind of roll their

521
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,479
Speaker 1: eyes at your kind of mission, right, And you know,

522
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: because that's and there are people who like I've got

523
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: people that send me messages regularly saying I've listened to

524
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: every show you've ever done, and I'm like, you need

525
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: a life.

526
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: I love you, get a hobby on thousands of apps

527
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 2: as well.

528
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well we're into sixteen no. By the way,

529
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: I love those people and I appreciate it. But and

530
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: then there are other people who will listen to ten

531
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: minutes and go he's a fucking idiot and then move

532
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: on to Joe Rogan and I get it. I get it. Yeah, right,

533
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: But this doesn't matter.

534
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,719
Speaker 2: Either because it's yeah, because because you don't need all

535
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 2: of them.

536
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: You see your people, right, But we don't have to

537
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: agree or align. We just need to be respectful and

538
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: understand other people, Like I don't need to agree with

539
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 1: you to have a great conversation. I do agree with you,

540
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: by the way, but I've had lots of conversations with

541
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: people that you know, like away from the podcast, we

542
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't be besties. But it's not that they're good

543
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: or bad people. It's just like, yeah, I don't I'm

544
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: not really fascinated with that or you, or I don't

545
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: really align with that ideology or that, and that's that's okay.

546
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: Like in this we don't all need And this is

547
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: the thing that we're seeing so much now with the

548
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 1: echo chambers of belief and ideology. I know where everyone

549
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: thinks that like if you don't agree with me on this, this,

550
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: and this, well everyone in the world who doesn't agree

551
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 1: with me is wrong. I'm like, fuck, there's so much

552
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: the older that I get and I know this sounds cliche, Yeah,

553
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: the more I realize how little I know, and I'm

554
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: not saying that with false humility, it's you actually go, ah,

555
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like I grew up in a

556
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: religious paradigm, right, so I knew there was a God,

557
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: and now I go, I don't know. Maybe there is.

558
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, though, because if I knew, then I'd

559
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: have knowledge, which makes faith redundant. So even though it's

560
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: uncomfortable for me to go, I don't know that's the truth.

561
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 2: You know, Well, it's like, look because also the older

562
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 2: we get, the more experiences we've lived through, the more

563
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: people we've met who've had different experiences, So the more

564
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 2: knowledge we have in a way to help like understand

565
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: that there's still so much there's so many millions of

566
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: people we haven't met yet, So how much knowledge out

567
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: there exists that we don't even know about? Do you

568
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: know what I mean? And to your point earlier around

569
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 2: the echo chamber, it is something that really worries me.

570
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 2: And I think about this too, obviously with the American

571
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 2: election loom, you know, and maybe this is the journalist

572
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 2: in me. I don't know, Like I really want to understand.

573
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 2: I have a certain opinion about what I think is

574
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 2: most helpful for a majority of folks post is election. Equally,

575
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: you know, I grew up, I guess middle class. I

576
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 2: don't know what it's like to be in middle America

577
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: raising two point two kids with a Golden Retriever on

578
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 2: one income. I don't know what it's like to be

579
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 2: long term unemployed, not to have health care, and to

580
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 2: feel like there's no one out there looking out for me.

581
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 2: Like and maybe if I live that experience, maybe I

582
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 2: would have different political views, and I can't like, I

583
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: can't fault people who have that experience. I don't agree

584
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: with certain opinions. But also I haven't lived their life.

585
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: I'm not in their shoes. I can take my kid

586
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 2: to the doctor, I can put food on the table.

587
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: So my life is very different, do you know what

588
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 2: I mean? And I have the capacity and the privilege

589
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: to vote a certain way because so many of my

590
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 2: from a Maslow's hierarchy of needs perspective, so many of

591
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 2: my needs, I know, are relatively met. And I have

592
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: a to go back to Australia at any point with Medicare,

593
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: which I think again gives me a whole different perspective.

594
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 2: You know why they're as Americans he who don't take

595
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 2: their kids to the doctor because they think they'll go bankrupt.

596
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: So I think it just you know, and I think

597
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: also for people who are listening who've ever had a

598
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 2: toxic boss, or a toxic relationship or any of those things.

599
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 2: When I've dealt with people like that, something that's helped

600
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: me is to try and think, like, wow, I wonder

601
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: what they must have been through to feel the need

602
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 2: to treat me like that right, Like, if that's how

603
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: you treat people, what has happened to you? Like, do

604
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? So sometimes that's a helpful

605
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: framing that I've found well, and.

606
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: I think, like from a very far away perspective, It's

607
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: like when you see and this is not probo anti anyone,

608
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: This is just me observing human behavior and psychology and

609
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: sociology I'm fascinated with. And it doesn't just happen in America,

610
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: but I'm fascinated when you see two adults who are

611
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: going to be leading a fucking countryally one of them

612
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: and what they're doing in public is basically insulting the

613
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: other person and going, oh, he's this or she, And

614
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: so what we see is all of these people who

615
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: are allegedly some of the most intelligent leaders who are

616
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: going to steer our country to the next whatever, basically

617
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: insult trying to insult their way to a victory. I'm like,

618
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: do you not understand how stupid you look, how juvenile

619
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: this is, how how like unaware this is that this

620
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: is your strategy is to insult people to the point

621
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: where you think that that will sway public opinion that

622
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: now you will have some kind of electoral advantage or

623
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: to me, it's just the epitome of fucking ignorance and

624
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: stupidity that oh god.

625
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 2: We wouldn't accept that from preschool kids, Like iflies were

626
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: doing that, they'd get a detention.

627
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,959
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean exactly? I want to

628
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: take a left turn. Before you and I chatted missus vulnerability,

629
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: he said, Oh, I went and saw my therapist today. Yeah,

630
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: and I want to talk about that. We've had lots

631
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: of therapists on here and Tiffu works with me, sees

632
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: doctor Bill, her therapist, and we talk all the time

633
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: about this stuff. So how long have you been seeing

634
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: a therapist for? Ah?

635
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: So, I reckon. I started getting therapy maybe fifteen years ago.

636
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: My parents got divorced when I was in my mid twenties,

637
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: so that's I think the first time I went to

638
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: see a therapist, and then basically on and off since then,

639
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: pretty when I started my own business. I've been very consistent.

640
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: I've always been working with at least one therapist and

641
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: or coach and or whatever at the same time. But

642
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: therapy therapy, I've kind of I fell off the wagon

643
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: for maybe two or three years, but I've again, I've

644
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: had coaches, I still have, I still work with multiple coaches,

645
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: but therapy therapy it kind of felt right. So I've

646
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 2: actually still wanted to see a guy in New York

647
00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: who was referred to me by a dear friend of

648
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 2: mine and she had a very traumatic experience and she

649
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: actually did a hypnosis therapy session with him and she

650
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: got attacked when she was overseas and she said it

651
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 2: it totally worked wonders for her, and so I am

652
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: very I fortunately have not had a traumatic experience, but

653
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: there's just a couple of things that I've been like

654
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: I think I need. I felt a few blockers Craig

655
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: in terms of like the business and my merely my mindset.

656
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 2: I'm the I'm the problem. It's me, to quote Taylor's

657
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 2: with so so I was like, I'm going to take

658
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 2: her a referral, and you know what, I emailed him

659
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 2: two years ago and it's taken me this long to

660
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 2: kind of I don't know, for some reason, I was

661
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 2: like a bit scared or just like whatever, I wasn't

662
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: ready and then yeah, I had a session with him today.

663
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: I just like I feel like I have rose colored

664
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: glasses on, Like I feel it was a really powerful,

665
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: really powerful session.

666
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: What makes a good therapist? Do you reckon?

667
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: It's a good question because I've had a bad therapist

668
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 2: as well. I had I had a therapist once when

669
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 2: I was when I was a correspondent, I had a

670
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: therapist and she was like, do you think you could

671
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,959
Speaker 2: get me a job on TV? And I was like,

672
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 2: this feels inappropriate? She was actually, this wasn't Yeah, this

673
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: is going back a long time. So what would I

674
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: say makes a good therapist? I think a referral is

675
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 2: always nice because then you're kind of not going in

676
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: totally blind in terms of the quality control. For me,

677
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: I think it's someone who has experienced with a specific

678
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: situation that you want handled. So whether it's couple's therapy,

679
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 2: whether it's in a child work, whether it's business whatever.

680
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: And then just someone who it's an energetic match. It

681
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: just feels like they're a good listener to me. I'm

682
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: looking for a balance between space for me to unpack

683
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: stuff on my own as well as a bit of

684
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: practical strategy tangible. So I kind of want a bit

685
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: of both. I want a bit of handholding and a

686
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: bit of this is what you're gonna do? Next. Some

687
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 2: people just want talk or some people just want tactics.

688
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 2: It's interesting. We do a lot of executive coaching at

689
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 2: my company and we probably straddle the two, I would say,

690
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: but for me, I'm looking of the balance of both.

691
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: Interesting thing about therapy and you know anything really nutrition

692
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: exercise is that obviously different things work for different people. Right.

693
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: It's so I can get five ladies who want to,

694
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: for example, you know, be fit, e, Lena stronger, you know,

695
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: more must whatever, or five dudes or you know, it

696
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, smattering of everyone, it doesn't matter. But even

697
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: if they've got the same goals, we can't take the

698
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: same journey because they don't have the same body. They

699
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: don't have the same personality, they don't have the same

700
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: physiological responses. Their body doesn't interact with that stimulus the

701
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: same as the next person. And so it's like therapy

702
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: is the same. Like you might go and see old

703
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: mate and go, oh, he's a fucking idiot, and I

704
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: go there and I go, she's brilliant, she's amazing, Right

705
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: there was I've spoken about this too much. But there's

706
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: a lady called Abigail Schreyer who wrote a book called

707
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: called bad therapy, and she was talking about you would

708
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: like this. She was talking about the fact that for

709
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: some people, talk therapy is exactly what they need and

710
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: it's it's very no pun intended therapeutic and valuable, but

711
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 1: for others it's traumatizing. So when you know, you go

712
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: there and you sit down every Tuesday at three and

713
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: you open the door on the trauma that happened seven

714
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: years ago once a week, and then the person's takes

715
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: them three days to get back to status quo because

716
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: they take all that emotional on psychological trauma out the

717
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: door with them again. So I loved Basically she was saying,

718
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: there is no which is no revelation, but there's no

719
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: one size that fits all. And it's trying to understand

720
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: whether or not it's a psychological diet or a physical

721
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: diet or you know, it's like trying to what will

722
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: work optimally for Meggie versus Craig versus John versus Sally.

723
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: And it's even in you think about this, even in Korea,

724
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: like you don't have a lot of certainty and predictability

725
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: because you work for you, so you don't know next

726
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: year how much money you're going to make. But most

727
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: people or do kind of you know, because they've got

728
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: a job and they've been with the company for nine years.

729
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: They know next year, I'm going to earn one hundred

730
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: and thirty grand give or take, unless I get the sack,

731
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: you know. Whereas with you, you are creative and you

732
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: are solving problems, and you are seeing things that need

733
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 1: to be addressed, and you're you're basically building stuff. Whereas

734
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: for a lot of people that would not work for

735
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,959
Speaker 1: their personality or their psychology.

736
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 2: Well, so I want to challenge you on that because

737
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 2: I actually think I think a lot of us fall

738
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 2: into this trap of I'm going to earn one hundred

739
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 2: and thirty K next year, So why would I talk

740
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 2: to anyone else in my industry? Why would I upscale?

741
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: Why would I have the Why would I even think

742
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 2: about knowing how to build absite, how to build a website?

743
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 2: Why would I even bother? But I actually, I actually

744
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 2: and maybe it's because I've been laid off so I've

745
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 2: lived through this experience in the past. I just think

746
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 2: you always need a plan. B. Yeah, I think that's

747
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 2: really important because if you've even if you've worked for

748
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: the government for forty years, you could get made redundant,

749
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 2: or by the way, you could be so miserable in

750
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 2: your job that it is the best thing for your

751
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: health to leave that company, right Or you may have

752
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: a boss that's so toxic that it's just not tenable,

753
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 2: so you may need like mentally, physically, whatever, it may

754
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 2: be better for your emotional state if you do leave

755
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: and if you could leave. So one of the things

756
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 2: that we talk a lot about at Petsalco, with our

757
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: community and with our executive coaching is like building firstly

758
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 2: in your mind the possibility that there are plan bis

759
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 2: and there are options out there for you. That's the

760
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: first thing to know that it is possible, even if

761
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 2: you've been accountant for thirty years, even if you've been

762
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 2: in marketing for six years, there's other options, because I

763
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 2: think otherwise we get stuck, and to our conversation before

764
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 2: we got an air, like when we get stuck and

765
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 2: we get stayed, and we get comfortable and like, well,

766
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 2: if I leave, maybe I only make seventy K and

767
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: I've got a mortgage, and I actually think, to me,

768
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 2: that's a dangerous place to be because then I think

769
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: it's like this, this fear of leaving one hundred and

770
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,439
Speaker 2: thirty k that maybe some people stay in situations work

771
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: wise are making them sick or that are not serving them,

772
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 2: and in fact you might leave and make two hundred

773
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 2: and sixty. Right, It's possible, maybe not straight away but eventually.

774
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, I think I agree with you, Like I

775
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: divide what you're saying, I agree with but also there

776
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: are people that for them to be able to get

777
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: themselves out of what they're in right now because of

778
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: their practical is difficult. But yeah, I agree with you,

779
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: and I also like, not even if you're ending a

780
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: fucking million dollars a year, but if you hate it,

781
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: if it's toxic, if it's killing me, well it's a

782
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 1: terrible job. So you know how they talk about work

783
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 1: life balance, I talk about work impact. I go because

784
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: work life balance has gone. Yeah, yeah, like work life

785
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: balance as well. It's kind of if you work this

786
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: many hours and you don't work this many hours, then

787
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 1: you've got this equilibrium, this numerical kind of equation and

788
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: this much work, this much not work. Okay, you've got balance. No,

789
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: that's complete dogshit because it could work twenty hours a week,

790
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: which is not many. But if every hour is fucking horrible.

791
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: That is really bad for your physical, mental, and emotional health. Conversely,

792
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: someone like you or me, probably there's not many weeks

793
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 1: where I wouldn't do it at least sixty hours of something,

794
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: at least in the form of work. Because but because

795
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: I love what I do, I rarely get stressed, I

796
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: rarely get anxious. I sleep great, I eat great, I

797
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: work out every day, I have good social life, I

798
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: have friends. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't

799
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: do drugs. And I'm not saying that sound good, but

800
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: I work a lot. But in the middle of all

801
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: of that, working a lot for me and which is

802
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: not a recommendation, but for me it works. So it's

803
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: trying to figure out not only what will I do

804
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: and how much of it will I do, but what

805
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: is the emotional and psychological consequence of that one hundred and.

806
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 2: I think there's a hard question. And so for people

807
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 2: listening or like, I really throw us a batter in

808
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 2: the works there, like I think we are like, and

809
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 2: I do want to challenge everyone to think today, like,

810
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 2: does your work bring you joy? Now? It doesn't have

811
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 2: to be the perfect job. And even as entrepreneurs Craig

812
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 2: running our own business. There's days where I'm like, jeez,

813
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: I love a regular paycheck, that'd be nice. But equally,

814
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 2: you know, I do a four day week. My entire

815
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 2: team we only do a four day week. And that's

816
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 2: intentional because I want I want us to live like

817
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: I want us to be, to be working to live,

818
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 2: not the other way around. Right for me, that's important

819
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 2: from a values perspective, and I think one thing that's

820
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 2: helpful to think about and even if you know, thinking

821
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 2: about Okay, so we're here today, at some point we're

822
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 2: going to die. I was born in nineteen eighty four.

823
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: At some point I'm going to die. Let's call it

824
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 2: twenty eighty four whatever, right, Like let's say I lived

825
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 2: told one hundred as in when I'm buried or created,

826
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 2: TBD on that. But if there's a gravestone, you'll have

827
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four to twenty eighty four, and there's a dash, right,

828
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 2: there's a dash between those two years. And to me,

829
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 2: I really for framings to think about, like what do

830
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 2: you want that dash for your life? What what did

831
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 2: that stand for? Like what do you want to be

832
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 2: known for? Because it's not about when you were born.

833
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: It's not about when you do. It's not about the awards,

834
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 2: it's not about the bank balance. Who cares when you diet? Done?

835
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 2: But what is that dash? What does that represent? What

836
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: was the essence of how you lived and who you

837
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 2: were when you lived? Like to me, if you can

838
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 2: be like I can on heart, like I feel like

839
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: I'm living in alignment with what I would want that

840
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 2: dash to be, then that's great because you can You

841
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: can get that impact or that that values alignment from

842
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 2: community work or through your family or volunteering, or it

843
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be through your work. But sometimes your

844
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 2: work is so misaligned from how you want to be remembered.

845
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 2: That's when I think there's a disconnect and there's some

846
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 2: serious questions that folks need to ask.

847
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think more broadly one hundred percent agree

848
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 1: with you, But more broadly, not only does our work

849
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: not align with our values, but neither does our lifestyle.

850
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: Neither do our habits, neither do our relationships, neither does

851
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: our behavior with food. Right right, this is you know,

852
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,919
Speaker 1: it's like, do you want to live in alignment? Well? Cool,

853
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: identify your values and your beliefs and your standards, and

854
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: then build an existence around those things, which won't be

855
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: easy or painless or quick, by the way, but once

856
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: you could, you know. I mean that for me, the

857
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: value of values, no pun intended, is that they're basically

858
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: our internal sat nav. It's like, this is your guidance system. Yes,

859
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: I've told this story a few times, Meggie, but we had.

860
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 1: You know, we're sponsored, We're on the Nova network, Shout

861
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: out to Nova. And more than a few times I've

862
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: been offered really good sponsorships. One massive sponsorship that I

863
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 1: had to say no to because I couldn't. I couldn't

864
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: sell that product that doesn't it would be. One of

865
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 1: them was Booze. And like I've said a few times

866
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 1: on the show, I'm not against booze. I'm against alcoholism

867
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: and people abusing booze because I work with people who

868
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: suffer from addiction issues, amongst other things. And so for

869
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: me to be the guy that works with that x

870
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: and alcoholics, and me the guy that's never had alcohol

871
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: in his life, to then be selling Booze on his program,

872
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: it was very It wasn't a comfortable decision because the

873
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: money would be fun, but it was a very easy

874
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: decision because you know that doesn't and that's you know,

875
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: I think when then we extrapolate that out to you know,

876
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: like when I just say to someone do you want

877
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: to be fit, healthy, functional, and you know, physically operational

878
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: as well as everyone goes yes, and then say, all right,

879
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: are you currently self sabotaging that goal? And the answer

880
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: is yes, yes. You know, it's like, what's my typical

881
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: behavior and does that support who and how I want

882
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: to be or not? All right, we want to wind up,

883
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: but I want to ask you one or two questions,

884
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: if that's all right, Yeah, so quick. One one of

885
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: the things that you talk about, I think, if I

886
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: got my research right in your corporate stuff is imposter syndrome.

887
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Do you have you? I'm sure you have

888
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 1: at times felt like an impost stuff. Are you through

889
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: that or does that still the.

890
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, what a great question. A thousand Well

891
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 2: I have a thousand percent felt like an impost.

892
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: Have you I still do? I still think this is

893
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: fucking ridiculous that I get to talk to you on

894
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: the other side of the world, no over paying me

895
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: to do this, and I'm just a dumb fuck from

896
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: the country, And I know all that sounds but I do.

897
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm aware of it. Yeah, but yeah, like

898
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: I coexist with my impost syndrome.

899
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's what a great way, a great way

900
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 2: of putting it. It's about I think you want to well,

901
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 2: the coexisting and for me, it's also quietening the voice

902
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 2: slash channeling that voice to propel me forward because and

903
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 2: they reckon, like seventy percent ish of the population experiences

904
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 2: imposter syndrome. And by the way, we're in good company

905
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 2: like Tom Hanks, my Angelou, Michelle Obama, Emma Watson, lots

906
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 2: of lots of really high profile people talk about feeling

907
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 2: like an impost as well. So we're not alone that

908
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 2: the two of us and any folks listening who feel

909
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 2: the same. Yeah. And actually, to be honest, a part

910
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 2: of what we talked about tangentially today in my therapy

911
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 2: session was imposter syndrome. And one of the things that

912
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 2: we work with corporate workshops on is around a strategy

913
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 2: to like, okay, as and when we've identified yes, we're

914
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 2: experiencing that, cool, do we let it cripple us? Or

915
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 2: is there actually a three step process that we can

916
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 2: actually follow to navigate through that and use it actually

917
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 2: as a tool rather than a hindred So yeah, shout

918
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 2: out to anyone else who feels you know, I really

919
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: appreciate you sharing that, Craig, because I think actually, if

920
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 2: we were more vulnerable and honest with our colleagues, with

921
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 2: our coworkers, we would also give them permission to share

922
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 2: that with us. Because sometimes I thought I was the

923
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 2: only one. Like when I started on a really high

924
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 2: profile show as a reporter, I thought like I didn't

925
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 2: deserve to be there. I was like, why have they

926
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 2: posted me? What is happening? And my boss took me

927
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 2: aside and he's like, what's going on? You're weird? And

928
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 2: I was like, I just don't know why you hired me.

929
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 2: I don't know why I'm here. And he's like, oh,

930
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 2: you're experiencing imposter syndrome and I was like what. I

931
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: didn't even know what it was. And he shared with

932
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 2: me that he's been feeling like that for the last

933
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 2: thirty five years, which kind of gave me comfort because

934
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 2: I was like, ah, Okay, so I'm not that weird. Okay,

935
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 2: that's good. He's been through it. Maybe that gave me

936
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: permission to know that I wasn't the weirdest person in

937
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 2: the room, you know.

938
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think, yeah, I agree with you. By

939
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: the way, I think it's closer to one hundred percent.

940
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: But anyway, yeah, I admit it.

941
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 2: You're quite right.

942
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, for me self, doubt, insecurity, overthinking,

943
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: fear of everything. You know, it's like it's normal. But yeah,

944
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 1: the more that, the funny thing is, on this show

945
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 1: and any forum where you have an audience, the more

946
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 1: vulnerable you are in an intelligent way. But I talk

947
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: to people about it, you know, because I was most

948
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: morbidly Id's kid. I wasn't a great student. I wasn't

949
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: a great athlete. I wasn't I was so fucking mediocre

950
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: at everything, right, But it's but your mediocrity or you

951
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, well, Craig, you don't have awesome genetics. Craig,

952
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: you're not a genius. Craig. You can't run fast, or

953
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: dance or sing right, Craig. Cool? Okay, Well, with all

954
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: that in mind, what can I do? Or Can I

955
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 1: work hard? Yet? Can I make decisions? Can I learn?

956
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: Can I develop new skills? Can I build resilience? Can

957
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: I build understanding and awareness? Can I ask good questions?

958
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 1: Can I take risks. Can I be brave all of that? Right,

959
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 1: there's so many things that are totally optional that are

960
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: life shaping and you shaping, you know, and the whole

961
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 1: fucking self sabotage, which intersects with imposter syndrome where you're

962
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: overthinking and your self doubt and your frustration and your

963
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: avoidance and your like that then starts to create this

964
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy of bad outcomes. You know, we're doing

965
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: it to ourselves. But you know, like, yeah, I think

966
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: that that you've I love that you've created your own thing,

967
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: you know. I love that you've kind of built something

968
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: from nothing in a good way. You know, you've recognized

969
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: a need. And so there's this intersection of your creativity

970
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: and your passion and empathy to help people but also

971
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: navigate a legitimate problem and do something about it. It's amazing.

972
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate you saying that, Craig, and it's interesting

973
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: hearing you speak. I heard I forget who it was.

974
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 2: I heard someone say once that entrepreneurs often create in

975
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 2: the world what they needed, and I wonder if you've

976
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 2: created what you needed, what younger you needed, and same

977
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 2: for I've created what younger Meggie needed in PEP talk her.

978
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 2: And you know, the speaking that I do in the

979
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 2: workshops that we run and the executive coaching that we

980
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: do is probably what I needed five to ten years

981
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 2: ago or maybe even still today. And actually for everyone

982
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 2: listening as well, I think the bad experience is the

983
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 2: negative things people told you, that the stories that are

984
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 2: on repeat in your head that maybe are not serving you.

985
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 2: Actually could that be a fuel to motivate you, to

986
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 2: drive you forward. Is there a way that actually you

987
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: could create something or help support someone else. Maybe you

988
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 2: don't need to start a business. Maybe just actually your

989
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: experience of what you went through sharing or coaching or

990
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 2: counseling someone who's had something similar, Maybe that's your gift

991
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 2: to be able to pay it forward to someone else

992
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 2: such that they don't have to have as negative experience

993
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 2: as what you did.

994
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: You know.

995
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 2: I think our stories what make us unique, you know,

996
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 2: and so often I don't think that we're encouraged to

997
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 2: share them. We're sort of like, oh, you gotta put

998
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 2: this perfect face on Instagram or LinkedIn and like everything

999
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 2: cunkyed orient it's actually not for everyone. And in sharing

1000
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: those things, I think in spaces where you feel safe

1001
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 2: and trusted and supported. There's power in that because you

1002
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 2: may give a voice to someone else right, or you

1003
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 2: may actually be sharing something that someone else needs to hear,

1004
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 2: which is I think why you and I both love

1005
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 2: stories so much and the sharing of knowledge.

1006
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is that when you're telling a story, too,

1007
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,720
Speaker 1: especially if it's your story and it's real, you're building

1008
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 1: emotional connection with people, whereas just data information statistics don't

1009
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: tend to resonate with people the same. So if you

1010
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: can be a bit funny, a bit interesting, if you

1011
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: can be a storyteller, you're building connection with people, and

1012
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: then once you've got that connection, then you can kind

1013
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: of see where you want to go from there. But also,

1014
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: you know when people hear about you figuring it out

1015
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: as you go and you being treated poorly and you

1016
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: thinking Okay, I'm going to do something, and then you're

1017
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:10,240
Speaker 1: taking action, then you're building something, and then you being brave.

1018
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: These are not theories or constructs. This is literally your journey,

1019
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:22,720
Speaker 1: so DMA no, but it's your journey and that inspires people.

1020
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: It's like, I think that's the thing, and that's why

1021
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: I try to with these albeit somewhat you know, lumpy

1022
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 1: bumpy change in direction conversations is to not be too strategic.

1023
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 1: Let's not have the big fucking question seven question face

1024
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 1: fuck all that, you know. I did my first six

1025
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: hundred episodes of this show losing money, no sponsors, going backwards,

1026
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: costing me. But I loved every fucking moment of it

1027
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: because I was learning and understanding podcasting versus radio where

1028
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: I came from, and and and understanding you know, not

1029
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: only how to do it, but also how to like,

1030
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 1: what's the science of podcasting, what's the commercial roadmap for podcasting?

1031
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 1: And how do we you know. But at the same time,

1032
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 1: I was meeting people like I'm never going to meet

1033
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: you except for this, and so I get an hour

1034
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 1: with you, which I'm very grateful for. And I'm talking

1035
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: to this really smart person, and I'm learning and it's

1036
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,919
Speaker 1: kind of you know, at the same time, I'm having

1037
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,720
Speaker 1: a good experience. I'm getting taught and trained and told

1038
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: by some of the smartest people in the world on

1039
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 1: a daily basis, and I get paid for it. Now,

1040
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: it's fucking ridiculous. It's a scam.

1041
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 2: Well well, and also, well, you've created that, right because

1042
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 2: you followed your curiosity and you know, you're you're the

1043
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 2: problem that you had that you saw a way to

1044
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 2: solve it, you know what interests you. And I think

1045
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 2: that's coming full circle to our conversation earlier where we

1046
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 2: talked about how ridiculous it is that you're supposed to

1047
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,240
Speaker 2: choose your life direction at you know, sixteen or seventeen

1048
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 2: or eighteen. Like look at us. It's like we're like

1049
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,280
Speaker 2: very much not teenagers anymore, sadly, but like we're still

1050
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 2: figuring it out. I heard someone once say everything is

1051
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 2: figure outable, and I think that's so true. Like, you know,

1052
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 2: the President of America, the Prime Minister of Australia, the

1053
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 2: city of some fancy bank, they don't know what they're

1054
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 2: doing either. They also did not get a manual. Have

1055
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 2: they learned stuff? Yes? Do they google stuff daily? Yes?

1056
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 2: Do they ask the word for advice? Also yes? And

1057
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 2: so like there's no one out there who's like the

1058
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 2: oracle who's got it all sorted. Actually, everyone's reading and

1059
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 2: learning and listening and learning from each other. And I

1060
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 2: think the sooner that I wish that I'd figure that

1061
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 2: out earlier, I think I thought that people ahead of

1062
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 2: me had some bible that was like taught them what

1063
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 2: to do next. And now that I realized that, actually,

1064
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 2: it's also not the destination that's important. Yes, we have goals,

1065
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 2: Yes we have revenue goals. Yes we want to help

1066
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand people in two years, all these sorts

1067
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 2: of things. Yes, great, great, great, yes, but like who cares? Like, actually,

1068
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 2: the journey and this conversation and my meetings earlier today

1069
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 2: and you know, my team and coaching fascinating women and

1070
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 2: supporting them through highs and like that's actually the joy.

1071
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 2: And I think figuring out that the journey is the joy.

1072
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 2: It's not about the destination, because the destination will change.

1073
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 2: Like I'm not a journalist anymore. I'm also not a lawyer,

1074
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 2: which I thought I would be at fifteen. Like it's

1075
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 2: the process, Like that's the joy for me.

1076
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: And you're always always going to be in the journey

1077
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: or the journey and the process. And it's about who

1078
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: you become. Like it's not that you know, it's when

1079
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: you take the narrow path. That's when you climb the mountain,

1080
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: that's when you take the stairs. It's it's when you

1081
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 1: do the stuff that most people won't do that you

1082
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 1: become that you build competence and understanding and strength and

1083
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: awareness and skill. And then now you know, it's like

1084
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 1: you go into the gym and you lift, you do

1085
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: a hard thing. You work against resistance to literally become strong.

1086
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 1: So how do you become strong? You literally work against

1087
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: physical resistance and the byproduct is adaptation, and so too

1088
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: mentally emotionally, you know, sociologically, you push against you work

1089
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: against the hard shit. You do what's required, and yes,

1090
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: you create practical measures outcomes, which is beautiful, but also

1091
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,439
Speaker 1: you're becoming fucking you two point zero in the middle

1092
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: of that, you know.

1093
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, and I think that's the set physically with

1094
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 2: the stuff that you're doing. You know, like if you

1095
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 2: want to get a big muscle, you got to do

1096
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 2: these ones. A week is not enough. But if you

1097
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 2: do it consistently, repetaibly, all of a sudden you got

1098
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 2: big bysets. And the stuff that we do, which is

1099
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 2: a lot about mindset and like negotiation tactics and reframing

1100
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 2: how you show up at work and that kind of stuff.

1101
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 2: It's repetition, right, it's a practice, and you don't I

1102
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 2: can't give you a pill and fix it. Sorry, It's

1103
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 2: a consistent practice. It's surrounding yourself with people. It's having

1104
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,799
Speaker 2: the tactics, it's reframing when you go off track, you know,

1105
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 2: it's finding the things to be grateful for so that

1106
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 2: again you can come back to enjoying and loving the

1107
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: journey and falling in love with that, so that the destination, yes,

1108
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 2: you want to have it in mind. You want to

1109
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 2: be clear where are we going, but as and when

1110
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 2: that changes, as and when you miss it, as and

1111
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 2: when you surpass it. That's superfluous because the process itself

1112
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 2: was the priority.

1113
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: There's another topic that we could do another day, but

1114
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: it's called destination disappointment, Meggie, and it's when you get

1115
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: to where you wanted to go, you get there and

1116
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 1: then you're like, oh this, I'm on the wrong mountain. Fuck,

1117
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: it's that mountain over there, you know. Because we think

1118
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: that when we get there wherever there is, that that's

1119
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: going to equate to some kind of internal nirvana, joy, calm, euphoria.

1120
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: And we get there, we're like, ah, oh hey, we're

1121
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:23,879
Speaker 1: going to wind out, but thank you so much. How

1122
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,839
Speaker 1: do people connect with you, follow you, find you, support you?

1123
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: How do they do that?

1124
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 2: What a treat chatting with you Craig. Yeah, listen, I'm

1125
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: on LinkedIn. Meggie Palmer, em Mebgie, So say hi. Let

1126
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 2: me know that you're listening to this amazing podcast, and

1127
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 2: that's how you found me. I love staying touch. Pep

1128
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 2: talk her hr at the end. We're on Instagram and

1129
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 2: our website is pep talker dot com. If folks need

1130
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 2: support with salary negotiations, with supporting their learning and development

1131
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,879
Speaker 2: teams at work, or cannot speaking, please reach out. We'd

1132
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,800
Speaker 2: love to support you. But I'm just I'm just a

1133
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 2: lighted that you're having these conversations. I'm looking forward to

1134
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 2: Destination Disappointment the next episode. That sounds like a LinkedIn

1135
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 2: post to me, Craig.

1136
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: It does, it does. Let's let's do that. Hey, we'll

1137
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: say goodbye Affair. But for the moment, I appreciate you

1138
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 1: so much and thanks for staying up to do this.

1139
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 2: You're the best.

1140
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: Talk to you.

1141
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 2: Scene