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Speaker 1: Okay, I tell them it's the bloody you projected, Harps,

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Speaker 1: It's it's Meggie. It's I feel like this is going

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Speaker 1: to be fifty minutes of fucking mayhem. But that's all right.

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Speaker 1: We've known each other, Yeah, we've known each other for

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Speaker 1: a rock solid three minutes, and it's it's we're already

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Speaker 1: having issues, which could be a sign of things to come. O. Meggie,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. What a tree? What a tree?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Sure? Where are you tell my? Tell my audience

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Speaker 1: where you're at at the minute.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So I live in New York City. I actually

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Speaker 3: moved to Brooklyn.

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Speaker 1: So that's right.

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Speaker 2: I'm in my in my home office in Brooklyn, New York.

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Speaker 1: Why why did you move there? What? What what took

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Speaker 1: you there?

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Speaker 2: I guess adventure.

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Speaker 3: I guess growth from a business perspective and a personal perspective,

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Speaker 3: and I guess, like, why not?

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Speaker 2: Although, now that I reflect on it, now that you've

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Speaker 2: asked me that question.

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Speaker 3: And you did, we did talk about a commitment to

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Speaker 3: be very courageous and open and honest in this conversation.

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Speaker 2: So I want to try. I want to stay true

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Speaker 2: to that. I think part of the reason honestly, Craig.

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Speaker 3: Where I left was I found it a business focused

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Speaker 3: on the gender pay gap and really a lot of unconscious.

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Speaker 2: Bias that exists.

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Speaker 3: And at the time when I left Australia seven or

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Speaker 3: eight years ago, I didn't really feel like I could

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Speaker 3: have as many open conversations about that topic I would

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Speaker 3: have liked.

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Speaker 2: And I found that in New.

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Speaker 3: York City people were more open to having those conversations.

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Speaker 2: I think that's different now.

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Speaker 3: I think Australia has changed a lot since then, But

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Speaker 3: at the time I kind of felt like I needed

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Speaker 3: to go somewhere where people were more willing to have

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Speaker 3: those conversations.

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Speaker 1: How did you fit into Because New York is pretty chaotic.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing, it's beautiful, it's a fucking tapestry of humanity

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Speaker 1: and all of those things, but it's also bedlam. How

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Speaker 1: have you fitted in? Ah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it can be chaotic for sure.

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Speaker 3: And you know what's so interesting Being in Brooklyn now,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, ah, just that little bit more zan, which

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Speaker 3: I love.

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Speaker 2: Look, you know, I was really lucky when I moved

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Speaker 2: to New York.

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Speaker 3: People Americans, well maybe not Americans. New Yorkers are very

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Speaker 3: generous and open with their networks. Certainly that was my experience.

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Speaker 3: So you'd meet someone who'd introduce you to someone, who'd

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Speaker 3: invite you to a party, who'd introduce you to someone.

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Speaker 3: So I kind of felt very adopted and very hugged

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Speaker 3: and very embraced. But there's also very niche communities here, Craig. So, like,

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Speaker 3: if you are, you know, a guitar playing softball loving,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, Vegan, you can find your people, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean. So there's a lot like very

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Speaker 3: specific like women entrepreneur communities.

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Speaker 2: Like so I kind of like found my people and

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Speaker 2: that was really hard.

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Speaker 1: So where'd you grow up? Meggie?

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Speaker 3: So I grew up on a farm west of the

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Speaker 3: Gold Coast in a place called Guanaba, like a small farm,

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Speaker 3: grew up there, so school on the Goldie shout out.

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Speaker 2: To sea, Queensland is listening.

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Speaker 3: And went to Brisbane to study and then you know,

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Speaker 3: traveled all over the East and Seaboard to different cities

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Speaker 3: for work as a journalist.

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Speaker 1: Wow. And have you family come over to visit you

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Speaker 1: in New York?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Super lucky they come over. We have a visitor at

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Speaker 2: least once a year, if not more times than that

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Speaker 2: a year which is also get to have quality time

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Speaker 2: with them here as well.

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Speaker 1: So what was your first gig out of school or

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Speaker 1: what did you study? I know you went to UNI.

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Speaker 1: I know I know the answer to some of these questions,

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Speaker 1: But what did you study at UNI? So?

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Speaker 3: I studied business and journalism when I was at UNI,

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Speaker 3: and I majored in What are I major?

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Speaker 1: In?

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Speaker 2: Public relations? And Italian? I think was what I majored in.

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Speaker 1: I heard it was beer and nightclubs.

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Speaker 3: But okay, well, yeah, that's that's well, that's true. Actually,

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Speaker 3: So I went to college. I lived on campus at

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Speaker 3: Cromwell College, shout out to any Cromwellians. And I really

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Speaker 3: got a degree in party a master's in partying.

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Speaker 2: Shall we say?

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Speaker 1: Nice? Nice? Yeah? What did you think? What? What did

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Speaker 1: you think you were going to do when you left?

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Speaker 1: What was the was the intention to be a journo?

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Speaker 2: No, it's a weird thing, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: Like when you're like seventeen, you're basically like, what don't

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Speaker 3: I do with the next fifty years of my life?

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Speaker 2: It's so weird.

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Speaker 3: I just remember, like, you know, like skimming through that

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Speaker 3: book where you could like choose all the different courses,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, it was just like throwing a

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Speaker 3: dart at a random book. It's so random to make

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Speaker 3: that decision at such a young age. I just wanted

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Speaker 3: to do something with people and right, and I didn't

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Speaker 3: know I didn't really want to be a journal I

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Speaker 3: actually had an ex boyfriend who threw a random set

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Speaker 3: of circumstances in some ways influenced me to end up

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Speaker 3: becoming a journalist.

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Speaker 1: So there you go. It is. It is weird, right

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Speaker 1: that at seventeen I was Some would argue I'm still

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Speaker 1: a more on, but I was definitely a more on

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Speaker 1: at seventeen, right, I was a fucking I'm not even

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Speaker 1: being self deprecating. I was a fucking idiot in terms

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Speaker 1: of I didn't study it. No, I really was. I

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Speaker 1: didn't pay attention. It's preoccupied with girls in sport. You know.

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Speaker 1: My vision for the future was about three days write.

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Speaker 1: Anything beyond that was overwhelming. And then they're like, exactly,

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Speaker 1: especially when I was a kid, they're like, all right,

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Speaker 1: so what do you want to do for let's say,

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Speaker 1: othern't know the next half century. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: I want to do next Tuesday, right right, I.

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Speaker 2: Don't know if you remember this cra I felt so

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Speaker 2: much pressure.

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Speaker 3: I went to a very academic high school, though, but

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Speaker 3: I just felt like there was a lot of pressure

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Speaker 3: to like.

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Speaker 2: You had to go to you just like I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it's just a lot.

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Speaker 3: On kids' shoulders, Like it's a lot.

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Speaker 2: I just think we should all chill out. Life is long,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: I also think the idea that you need to find

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Speaker 1: the thing that you're going to do for the next

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Speaker 1: one hundred years is a dumb idea. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's founded in any logic, and I guess through necessity

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Speaker 1: in the olden days, you know, before you were around.

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Speaker 1: But I get it. But also at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I think, now it's like my training partner, his daughter

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Speaker 1: I've been I've known since she was a baby, and

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Speaker 1: she's nineteen now. She's just doing a gym instructor's course

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Speaker 1: and she doesn't really know what she's fitness instructor PT

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Speaker 1: all that stuff, and she's asking me because of my background,

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Speaker 1: she's asking me questions every seven minutes, right, And I see,

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Speaker 1: do you know what, it doesn't matter like do it

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Speaker 1: for ten minutes. You might love it, you might hate it.

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Speaker 1: You could be a fucking neurosurgeon. In ten years, you

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Speaker 1: could be a pilot, you could be you can be

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Speaker 1: what you know. It's like, you do not need to

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Speaker 1: figure it out now, figure out what you want to

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Speaker 1: do in the short term. Do that because you might,

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Speaker 1: I reckon, like a lot of forty year olds in

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Speaker 1: the future are going to have had fifteen careers by

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Speaker 1: the time they get there.

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Speaker 2: Totally, totally, so it's okay. Well, and to your.

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Speaker 3: Point, sometimes figuring out what you don't want to do

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Speaker 3: is just as powerful that's figuring out what you do

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Speaker 3: want to do. Like I remember being like fourteen or

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Speaker 3: fifteen and we had to do work experience and I

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Speaker 3: was like very argumentative, shocker, love to argue with my dad, debating, etc.

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Speaker 2: I was that kid anyway. So I was like, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be a lawyer. That's going to be great.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's like, yeah, you're going to be a lawyer.

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Speaker 3: So I did work experience with a QC like some

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Speaker 3: fancy lawyer in Brisbane, and it was like it was

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Speaker 3: the worst. Like I just remember these misogynistic lawyers in

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Speaker 3: the elevator. I remember the way they looked at her,

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Speaker 3: even though she was like more senior than them.

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Speaker 2: The way they was just gross. And then the way

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Speaker 2: they would look at me, and I just knew.

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Speaker 3: I was like, they're never going to take me seriously,

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Speaker 3: like they're always going to treat me as a second

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Speaker 3: class citizen in this industry. I just kind of just

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Speaker 3: and I was like, I just can't handle that. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to get myself into trouble. So I just decided

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Speaker 3: not to do law because of that work experience.

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Speaker 1: Wow experience.

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Speaker 2: So it's good though. I'm glad because otherwise I would

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Speaker 2: have done law, and who knows where I would have

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Speaker 2: ended up.

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Speaker 1: How old were you when you had that experience, I.

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Speaker 2: Reckon I was.

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Speaker 3: I must have been fourteen or fifteen. I was so young,

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Speaker 3: but I just knew. I was like, oh, because you know,

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Speaker 3: when you're little and you're in a school or whatever,

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Speaker 3: you don't really know the real world and how like

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Speaker 3: people discriminate. And also, to be fair, you know, very

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Speaker 3: privileged to have not experienced discrimination up until that point.

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Speaker 2: But I was just like I just kind of became.

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Speaker 3: Really aware of misogyny and just like I was just

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Speaker 3: I could just sense it.

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Speaker 2: It was a really weird experience, but I just knew.

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Speaker 2: I was like, it's not for me.

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Speaker 1: Wow, And so how old are you now? Sorry, I'm forty.

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Speaker 2: Just had the big.

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Speaker 1: Foun Hell you're a dinosaur.

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Speaker 2: A right halfway to eighty, let's go.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to get a context of what

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Speaker 1: year that experience was. So that must have been really

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Speaker 1: late nineties, right, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yep, late yeah, ninety eight ninety nine.

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Speaker 1: And so we're quarter of a century later. Has it

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Speaker 1: changed a lot, a bit or not at all?

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Speaker 2: What a great question.

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Speaker 3: No, I think it has absolutely. I think it's changed,

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Speaker 3: I really do. I mean, listen, does that still exist?

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Speaker 3: Maybe I should do work experience in a law firm again, perhaps, like,

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Speaker 3: but I imagine it's more veiled now. I imagine it's

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Speaker 3: not as overt as it was back then. I think

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Speaker 3: we've made progress, absolutely, and we will continue to make progress.

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Speaker 3: So if you look at the data, the un reckons

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Speaker 3: we're two hundred years away ish from equality, and so

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Speaker 3: it's just like, which is like, so the good news

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Speaker 3: is we're making progress progress. The bad news is it's

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Speaker 3: taking too long. In my humble opinion, So you know,

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Speaker 3: my whole thing is like, well, I could sit around

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Speaker 3: for two hundred years and see what happens, or could

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Speaker 3: try each of us in our own way to make

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Speaker 3: ripple effects today, tomorrow, the next day, so that eventually

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Speaker 3: things crossed, we get to a tidal wave of change,

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Speaker 3: so that hopefully those sticks come down to a shorter timeframe.

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Speaker 1: And so with equality in this kind of financial sense,

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Speaker 1: you're talking like pay equality, I'm guessing it for this

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Speaker 1: particular Yeah, so I don't even I mean, I know

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Speaker 1: that it's real, but I don't even understand because I don't,

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Speaker 1: like I've employed five hundred people right over the years.

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Speaker 1: I don't even understand how that, like, if you're doing

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Speaker 1: the same thing, Like, how do people even justify that?

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Speaker 1: Because I remember you telling a story you were chatting

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Speaker 1: with Luke on his podcast.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Luke's the best.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've been on each other show I think,

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Speaker 1: or he's definitely been on this one. But and you

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Speaker 1: were talking about an experience that you had as a

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Speaker 1: journo where you that other people correct me if I

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Speaker 1: fuck this up, but doing the same thing as you

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Speaker 1: were getting paid more and you went in and went, hey,

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Speaker 1: you guys, here's an oversight, you silly guys, just so

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Speaker 1: you know, and they went, no, that's just how it

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Speaker 1: is essentially Yeah, that the truth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, you didn't fuck that story up. You

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Speaker 2: nailed it. So yeah.

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Speaker 3: So, And I think in my experience and in a

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Speaker 3: lot of experiences, when you think about the gender pay gap,

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Speaker 3: which impacts women and also minorities, you know, women of

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Speaker 3: color are impacted to a much larger degree. When you

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Speaker 3: think about that, most of it's not conscious. So it's

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Speaker 3: not like my boss, my old news director, was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: let's screw over Meggie, Yeah, let's do it. It's just like

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Speaker 3: they had a pool of money, they a couple of things.

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Speaker 3: They probably knew that certain people were going to blow

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Speaker 3: up more than others if they didn't get a certain number.

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Speaker 2: And it's unconscious, right, And so actually, come this is

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Speaker 2: so wild.

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Speaker 3: But if you look, there's three separate studies in three

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Speaker 3: different countries, Craig that have actually shown that little girls

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Speaker 3: get paid less pocket money than little boys.

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Speaker 2: And like, parents are not assholes, and parents.

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Speaker 3: Typically want to raise their kids fairly, right, It's just

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Speaker 3: that there's a perception that if I'm chopping the wood

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Speaker 3: with dad in the paddock or in the backyard or

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Speaker 3: whatever for the fireplace, that is quote unquote tougher work

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Speaker 3: than if someone is helping around the house set the

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Speaker 3: table for dinner, for example.

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Speaker 2: So there is a perception that certain types of work.

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Speaker 3: Is tougher or harder or whatever, and so there is

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Speaker 3: a disproportionate value put on that. So you know, women

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Speaker 3: dominated industries are massively paid less than men dominate industries.

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Speaker 3: So for example, like childcare and nursing are paid less

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Speaker 3: than say banking or insurance for example, which are more

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Speaker 3: pale dominated.

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Speaker 2: And actually what happens is as more women go.

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Speaker 3: Into certain industries, the average wage in those industries starts

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Speaker 3: to drop. So it's a deep seated like generational bias

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Speaker 3: that exists that isn't even conscious for all of us,

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Speaker 3: by the way, I have unconscious bias, by the way,

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Speaker 3: So you are there things that we can do to

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Speaker 3: make that more conscious have shifted act to me, yes,

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Speaker 3: But as you.

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Speaker 2: Know from your scientific.

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Speaker 3: Background as well, like unconsciously, there's things that just happen

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Speaker 3: because it's what we saw in the media, or it's

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Speaker 3: what happened in preschool, or it's what Gramdma used to

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Speaker 3: say to us. You know, So all of those factors

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Speaker 3: as well as other factors like for example, women do

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Speaker 3: take more time out for caring responsibilities, so that impacks

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Speaker 3: the data as.

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Speaker 2: Well for sure.

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Speaker 3: And also women are socialized or girls are socialized to

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Speaker 3: want to do certain jobs like teaching, like nursing, which

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Speaker 3: historically have been paid less. So society has said, nurses,

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Speaker 3: we're going to value about here. Investment bankers, y'all are

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Speaker 3: the real deal. We're going to pay you a hell of.

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Speaker 2: A lot more.

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Speaker 3: So there's three major factors that impact it. And as

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Speaker 3: I say, a lot of that's not conscious necessarily.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and I think that, yeah, it ends up

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Speaker 1: where it ends up. But it's like it's it's financial,

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Speaker 1: it's sociological, it's cultural, it's psychological. Like you said, I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine too many parents are sitting around saying, all right,

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Speaker 1: well let's give her five bucks. Let's give him eight

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Speaker 1: bucks because he's got a penis. Yeah, you know, it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is really interesting. All right, tell me about pep

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Speaker 1: talk her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So basically to your story earlier, when I was

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Speaker 3: a journal found out through a male ally actually who

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Speaker 3: gave me a wink wink nudge nudge background info.

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Speaker 2: He was like, yo, you're getting screwed on pay I

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Speaker 2: was like.

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Speaker 3: What never and and turns out, long story short, I

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Speaker 3: was getting paid less. My paying conditions were quite different

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Speaker 3: to my male colleagues, which I thought was bullshit. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: I decided to say something because that's how I was raised,

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Speaker 3: the debater in me. If you see something something and

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Speaker 3: let's just say it didn't go down too well, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so they were pissed off that I knew they were

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Speaker 3: pissed off that I wanted something done about it, and

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Speaker 3: so that was kind of the genesis for being like,

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Speaker 3: h if this is happening to me, I'll back to myself.

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Speaker 2: I knew I was an excellent journal I knew i'd

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Speaker 2: get another job.

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Speaker 3: I was like, if it's happening to me, other people

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Speaker 3: must be getting really screwed over to and sure enough, again,

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Speaker 3: I didn't really know much about it then. I didn't

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Speaker 3: understand the statistics. I didn't know that it's fifteen to

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Speaker 3: twenty percent of a pay gap, depending on how you

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Speaker 3: slice and dize the numbers. I didn't know that was happening,

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Speaker 3: and I became really interested, how could you change it? So,

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Speaker 3: long story short, I stayed as a journal and foreign

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Speaker 3: correspondent for a couple more years. But on the side,

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Speaker 3: I was kind of working on this idea of pep

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Speaker 3: talker and how could we close the pay gap sooner?

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Speaker 3: And how could I support professional women to earn more

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Speaker 3: cash and get promoted faster. Because I'm a big believer, Craig,

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Speaker 3: and I know you are too, of like when women

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Speaker 3: have more money, like, awesome things happen, right because funny,

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Speaker 3: use your choice. It gives you possibility. It allows you

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Speaker 3: to make different take different roads in your life and

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Speaker 3: your career.

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Speaker 1: And are we progressing slowly significantly somewhere in twin like

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Speaker 1: is the progress? Are you happy with the rate of

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Speaker 1: change and the rate of awareness and movement that you're seeing?

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Speaker 2: I mean, listen, obviously we'd all love to click our

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Speaker 2: fingers and say puff, it's all.

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Speaker 3: Perfect, it's done, it's fixed, it's it's you know, we're

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Speaker 3: all quote unquote equal perfect.

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Speaker 2: We live in this nirvana world.

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Speaker 3: Now, Obviously, progress could always be quicker. Someone said to

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Speaker 3: me once, Actually I was a journalist. He said, Maggie,

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Speaker 3: it takes a long time to turn a big ship, saying.

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Speaker 2: That three times quickly, And you mentioned it.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, so I think about this idea of like

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Speaker 3: a big ship turning. And when you think about cultural

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Speaker 3: change in the workplace, when you think about societal change

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Speaker 3: of equality, of the gender pay gap, it does take

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Speaker 3: a long time. I wish I could shove the ship

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Speaker 3: around and fix it straight away, but I'm learning that

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Speaker 3: that's not the way the world works.

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Speaker 2: Do I wish it would change faster?

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Speaker 3: Yes, Equally, you and I having this conversation, like your

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Speaker 3: listeners in ninety countries around the world are thinking about

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Speaker 3: this now and I ruminating on it, and hopefully they'll

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Speaker 3: talk about.

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Speaker 2: It at dinner party, you know, Like to me, that's exciting.

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Speaker 3: And again, collectively, as this happens more and more and more,

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Speaker 3: we will see more change.

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Speaker 2: And we are seeing change.

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Speaker 3: So we saw we went backwards during COVID, but we

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Speaker 3: are again gradually progressing. The statistics and the data is

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Speaker 3: getting better. So actually, in Australia and also in the

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Speaker 3: United Kingdom, the major employers in the country have to

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Speaker 3: publicly report what their gender pay gap statistics are, So

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Speaker 3: if you work for a big company in the UK

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Speaker 3: or Australia, you can google that. In Australia it's called

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Speaker 3: wood GEA, the Women and Gender Equality Agency, and in

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Speaker 3: the UK. I can't remember it, but if you just

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Speaker 3: search gender pay gap United Kingdom you'll find And so

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Speaker 3: that transparency and openness in talking about it, yeah, is

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Speaker 3: making the companies go shait, we better fix that, right

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Speaker 3: because there's a spotlight wow, and it's on the front

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Speaker 3: page of.

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Speaker 2: The paper once even report comes out.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, policies changing, governments are starting to talk about it.

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Speaker 3: We're seeing superannuation top ups and retirement top ups in

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Speaker 3: certain countries for leave. So things are changing and in

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Speaker 3: my mind that's a good thing. I'd love it to

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Speaker 3: happen more and more and more, but it will. Let's say,

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Speaker 3: this is generational change, so it's unfortunately going to take

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Speaker 3: a long time.

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Speaker 1: So I know you were argumentative and a debata well

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Speaker 1: a debata and probably loved a good argument and loved

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Speaker 1: standing up for yourself and others, which is awesome. But

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Speaker 1: were you Were you always entrepreneurial? Like did you like

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Speaker 1: I was? I I hated having a job, yeah yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had my first business at night. Not really a hustler.

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Speaker 1: I just didn't like the traditional work model, like I

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Speaker 1: haven't had a job in inverted commets since I was

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Speaker 1: twenty five, So yeah, like working for an employer. So

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Speaker 1: thirty five years I've worked for me, and I just

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Speaker 1: like the freedom and the flexibility and the creativity and

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Speaker 1: the problem solving and the growth and the experience that

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Speaker 1: comes with figuring shit out, she go, and not having

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Speaker 1: not having sick pay and not having holiday pay, and

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Speaker 1: not having certainty and not having predictability. For whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: I thrive in the middle of that. And yeah, but

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Speaker 1: for you, was that always like did you want to

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Speaker 1: work for you or did you think you would work

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Speaker 1: for someone else forever?

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Speaker 3: I don't think I really knew, to be honest, Craig,

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Speaker 3: I think my Sisla, my sister is much more entrepreneurial

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Speaker 3: than I am. And to be honest, maybe I mean

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Speaker 3: my dad had his own business. He was an engineer

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Speaker 3: and had his own business. I don't think I really knew.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I knew when I you know, it

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Speaker 3: took me a long time to figure out that I

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Speaker 3: needed to create a new way of you know, funding

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Speaker 3: a paycheck and figuring out it took me until I

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Speaker 3: was probably at least thirty, yeah, maybe twenty nine to thirty.

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Speaker 3: But my sister, she was that person who, like everyone else,

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Speaker 3: was going to the mall or you know, going to

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Speaker 3: parties on the weekends, and she was down on the

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Speaker 3: Gold Coast selling silver that she had imported from China

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Speaker 3: when she was fourteen.

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Speaker 2: She was a true entrepreneur, I think, so I learned

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Speaker 2: a lot from her.

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Speaker 3: And she now owns very successful bakeries on the Gold

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Speaker 3: Coast like Paddock and Bam Bam, and she's got a

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Speaker 3: big one down at Talibudre called Custard Canteen. So she

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Speaker 3: runs these amazing bakeries and restaurants. So she's very entrepreneurial

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Speaker 3: and I learned a lot from her. I think for

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Speaker 3: me it probably was less in my blood as it

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Speaker 3: was for her, and it was more circumstance. So as

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Speaker 3: a foreign correspondent, you know, if there's a natural disaster,

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Speaker 3: there's a big story, something happens on Twitter or on

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Speaker 3: you know, the BBC, on breaking news, you potentially have

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Speaker 3: to get your bag and get to an airport. And

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Speaker 3: I just didn't want to live with my phone under

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Speaker 3: my pillow when I slept anymore. I was like I was,

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Speaker 3: I was moving towards anxiety, and I was like, this

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Speaker 3: is not healthy for me, and I can't do this

439
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,199
Speaker 3: long term, and I admire my colleagues who do, and

440
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,280
Speaker 3: I'm grateful that they tell the stories around the world

441
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:51,879
Speaker 3: that we all need to know about. But it just

442
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 3: it wasn't gonna be sustainable for me for the next

443
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 3: forty years. So I was like, hmm, what does it

444
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 3: look like if I'm not doing this? What transferable skills

445
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 3: do I have? So when I was journal I started

446
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 3: as a side hustle a media training company. So I

447
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 3: started to figure out what's an invoice, what's a profit margin?

448
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,640
Speaker 2: Like, how do you make cash? How do you get

449
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 2: someone to buy from you? I don't know, because I

450
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,879
Speaker 2: don't teach you that stuff, even a business school like

451
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 2: I didn't teach us that even as a like, no

452
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,800
Speaker 2: one teaches you know it, don't even get started.

453
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,640
Speaker 1: It's so interesting, sorry to interrupt, but not at all

454
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: in how many courses, even at university. Like when I

455
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,679
Speaker 1: did my undergrad degree in exercise science, I was in

456
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 1: I was in my thirties, right, I'd already been working

457
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,679
Speaker 1: in fitness industry for one hundred years, and I was amazed.

458
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 1: This is an indictment. I shouldn't even say it, but

459
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 1: this is true. So when a three year full time

460
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,400
Speaker 1: three year undergrad degree in exercise science, there was one

461
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 1: one semester which equaled twelve lectures on programming exercise in

462
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: a three year degree. Right, So there was of course,

463
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 1: you know, anatomy, physiology by maca all the other stuff,

464
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: but in terms of come out as an exercise scientist

465
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 1: and in the three years there was about twelve hours

466
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,399
Speaker 1: of how to write and prescribe exercise or how to

467
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 1: you know, And it was I'm like, oh wow. And

468
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: then when you think about even in you know, so

469
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 1: my PhD is in neuropsych and my undergrad is you know,

470
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 1: in exercise science. But you think about in how much

471
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,439
Speaker 1: of these jobs is dependent on your ability to create

472
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: connection and rapport and communicate and to understand other people

473
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 1: and to at least have an insight into someone else's

474
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: reality and to be able to build trust and respect

475
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 1: and create an experience with you know. None of that

476
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,119
Speaker 1: is taught, like, none of that, so we get I

477
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,119
Speaker 1: used to have people that would come to me with

478
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: sometimes honors and master's degrees, who would want a job

479
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 1: in one of my gyms. So one we're all personal training,

480
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: all appointment based, higher level stuff, right, and they would

481
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,239
Speaker 1: they were brilliant with bodies, but terrible with people. Like

482
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: they they would understand the anatomy and physiology of something,

483
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: but in terms of creating a great experience or having

484
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: a meaningful conversation, or or saying, hey, Meggie, how is

485
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,360
Speaker 1: your weekend? What did you get up to? By the way,

486
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 1: what you eat for brecky? Why the fuck did you

487
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 1: eat cocoa pops? What's going on? No capacity you know

488
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 1: and no one like it's And I've said this to

489
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people, whether or not you're a banker

490
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 1: or a trainer, or a doctor or a you know,

491
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: a service provider in some other area. If you can't

492
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 1: connect with people and build rapport and create great conversations

493
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 1: and understand someone else's version of right now and tap

494
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 1: into that and build trust, like you can't do your job.

495
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 2: Well, you can't. You can't get the change to happen.

496
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 2: You can't take it from A to B. If they

497
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 2: won't even walk.

498
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 3: With you to be they're like, fuck, there's this guy's

499
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,400
Speaker 3: the worst or this girl is the worst.

500
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 2: So I don't want to spend time with them. I

501
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 2: don't trust them.

502
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: Well, also, yeah, in the moment, having that understanding that

503
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: you know like you and I are in the same

504
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: conversation but not the same experience.

505
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 2: So let's unpack that a little more. Yeah, what does

506
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 2: that mean to you?

507
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,239
Speaker 1: So it means that while you know, like everything, that

508
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: every time you're in the middle of or I'm in

509
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 1: the middle of an experience like right now, we're looking

510
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: at that or we're experiencing it through our own lens,

511
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: through our own window of understanding, through our own inner language,

512
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 1: our own inner storytelling. So I might you know, like,

513
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 1: let's say, f now, for example, twenty thousand people, no,

514
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: let's make it a small number, ten people listen to

515
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: this show. Yeah, right now, someone's going, fucking hell, how

516
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: good's Meggie? And someone else is gone, eh, I don't know,

517
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: maybe that whole bullshit pay gap and right, so, oh,

518
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: Brian's there going fuck Meggie, what does she know? You

519
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: know whatever? Right, and someone else is going, oh, thank

520
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: god for this woman. She's a breath of fresh air, harps,

521
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: can you get her on again? So it's not about

522
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: what you're saying or I'm saying. It's about how people

523
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: experience and processes. And so we are you are, I am,

524
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: our listeners are consciously unconsciously creating their own reality without

525
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: knowing it. So when something happens in the world, then

526
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: you look through the Meg window and then you give

527
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 1: it meaning and value and you label it just like

528
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 1: Craig does. So you might look at something and go

529
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: that's fucking hilarious, and I look at it and I go, well,

530
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 1: that's highly offensive. Yeah, don't call me a cunt, right, yeah,

531
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: So when I say that.

532
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 2: In America, that word lands differently here.

533
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: Let me tell you one d So when I say

534
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: that word, you know, even now, there's a percentage of

535
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: people that when I wish you wouldn't say that word

536
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: Craig and I get it, and that's the reason I

537
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: said it. But there are ninety seven one of my

538
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: listeners who are like, ah, HAPs, he's a fucking idiot,

539
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: because it ain't about like you think about four letters

540
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: put together in a certain order. It doesn't mean anything

541
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: until we say it means something.

542
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: Until we give it that meaning, right, And there will.

543
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,239
Speaker 1: Be other people listening to you talk about, you know,

544
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 1: the gender pay gap and be on the edge of

545
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: their seat. And by the way, I truly think it

546
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: is a great conversation and is a great cause, and

547
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: it's nest all that, right, So that's truly what I think.

548
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: But there'll be I would imagine a few dinosaurs, not

549
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: that many on my listenership, I wouldn't think, but there

550
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: will be people who would kind of roll their eyes

551
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:43,959
Speaker 1: at your kind of mission, right, And you know, because

552
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: that's and there are people who like I've got people

553
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: that send me messages regularly saying I've listened to every

554
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: show you've ever done, and I'm like, you need a life.

555
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: I love you, get a hobby.

556
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 2: On thousands of apps as well.

557
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well we're into sixteen no. By the way,

558
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: I love those people and I appreciate it. But and

559
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: then there are other people who will listen to ten

560
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: minutes and go he's a fucking idiot and then move

561
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: on to Joe Rogan and I get it. I get it. Yeah, right,

562
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: But this doesn't matter.

563
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,719
Speaker 3: Either because it's yeah, because because you don't need all

564
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 3: of them.

565
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: You see your people, right, But we don't have to

566
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: agree or align. We just need to be respectful and

567
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: understand other people, Like I don't need to agree with

568
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 1: you to have a great conversation. I do agree with you,

569
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: by the way, but I've had lots of conversations with

570
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: people that you know, like away from the podcast, we

571
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't be besties. But it's not that they're good

572
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: or bad people. It's just like, yeah, I don't I'm

573
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: not really fascinated with that or you, or I don't

574
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: really align with that ideology or that, and that's that's okay.

575
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: Like in this we don't all need And this is

576
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: the thing that we're seeing so much now with the

577
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 1: echo chambers of belief and ideology. I know where everyone

578
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: thinks that like if you don't agree with me on this, this,

579
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: and this, well everyone in the world who doesn't agree

580
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 1: with me is wrong. I'm like, fuck, there's so much

581
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: the older that I get and I know this sounds cliche, Yeah,

582
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: the more I realize how little I know, and I'm

583
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: not saying that with false humility, it's you actually go, ah,

584
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like I grew up in a

585
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: religious paradigm, right, so I knew there was a God,

586
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: and now I go, I don't know. Maybe there is.

587
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, though, because if I knew, then I'd

588
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: have knowledge, which makes faith redundant. So even though it's

589
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: uncomfortable for me to go, I don't know that's the truth.

590
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 3: You know, Well, it's like, look because also the older

591
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 3: we get, the more experiences we've lived through, the more

592
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 3: people we've met who've had different experiences, So the more

593
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 3: knowledge we have in a way to help like.

594
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 2: Understand that there's still so much there's so many millions

595
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 2: of people.

596
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 3: We haven't met yet, So how much knowledge out there

597
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 3: exists that we don't even know about?

598
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

599
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: And to your point.

600
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 2: Earlier around the echo chamber, it is something that really

601
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 2: worries me.

602
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 3: And I think about this too, obviously with the American

603
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 3: election loom, you know, and maybe this is the journalist

604
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 3: in me.

605
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like I really want to understand.

606
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 3: I have a certain opinion about what I think is

607
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 3: most helpful for a majority of folks post is election. Equally,

608
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 3: you know, I grew up, I guess middle class. I

609
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 3: don't know what it's like to be in middle America

610
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 3: raising two point two kids with a Golden.

611
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: Retriever on one income.

612
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 3: I don't know what it's like to be long term unemployed,

613
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 3: not to have health care, and to feel like there's

614
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 3: no one out there looking out for me. Like and

615
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 3: maybe if I live that experience, maybe I would have

616
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: different political views, and I can't like, I can't fault

617
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 3: people who.

618
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 2: Have that experience. I don't agree with certain opinions. But

619
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: also I haven't lived their life.

620
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 3: I'm not in their shoes. I can take my kid

621
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 3: to the doctor, I can put food on the table.

622
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 3: So my life is very different, do you know what

623
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 3: I mean? And I have the capacity and the privilege

624
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 3: to vote a certain way because so many of my

625
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 3: from a Maslow's hierarchy of needs perspective, so many of

626
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 3: my needs, I know, are relatively met.

627
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 2: And I have a to go back to Australia.

628
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 3: At any point with Medicare, which I think again gives

629
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 3: me a whole different perspective. You know why they're as

630
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 3: Americans he who don't take their kids to the doctor

631
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 3: because they think they'll go bankrupt. So I think it

632
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 3: just you know, and I think also for people who

633
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 3: are listening who've ever had a toxic boss, or a

634
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 3: toxic relationship or any of those things. When I've dealt

635
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 3: with people like that, something that's helped me is to

636
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 3: try and think, like, wow, I wonder what they must

637
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 3: have been through to feel the need to treat me.

638
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: Like that right, Like, if that's how you treat people,

639
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: what has happened to you? Like, do you know what

640
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 2: I mean? So sometimes that's a helpful framing that I've

641
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: found well, and.

642
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: I think, like from a very far away perspective, It's

643
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: like when you see and this is not probo anti anyone,

644
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: This is just me observing human behavior and psychology and

645
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: sociology I'm fascinated with. And it doesn't just happen in America,

646
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: but I'm fascinated when you see two adults who are

647
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: going to be leading a fucking countryally one of them

648
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: and what they're doing in public is basically insulting the

649
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: other person and going, oh, he's this or she, And

650
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: so what we see is all of these people who

651
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: are allegedly some of the most intelligent leaders who are

652
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: going to steer our country to the next whatever, basically

653
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: insult trying to insult their way to a victory. I'm like,

654
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: do you not understand how stupid you look, how juvenile

655
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: this is, how how like unaware this is that this

656
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: is your strategy is to insult people to the point

657
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: where you think that that will sway public opinion that

658
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: now you will have some kind of electoral advantage or

659
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: to me, it's just the epitome of fucking ignorance and

660
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: stupidity that oh god.

661
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: We wouldn't accept that from preschool kids, Like if pies

662
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 3: were doing that, they'd get a detention.

663
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,959
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean exactly? I want to

664
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: take a left turn. Before you and I chatted missus vulnerability,

665
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: he said, Oh, I went and saw my therapist today.

666
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, and did, And I want to talk about that.

667
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: We've had lots of therapists on here, and Tiffu works

668
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: with me, sees doctor Bill, her therapist, and we talk

669
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: all the time about this stuff. So how long have

670
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: you been seeing a therapist for? Ah?

671
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: So, I reckon. I started getting therapy maybe fifteen years ago.

672
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 3: My parents got divorced when I was in my mid twenties,

673
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 3: so that's I think the first time I went to

674
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 3: see a therapist, and then basically on and off since then,

675
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 3: pretty when I started my own business.

676
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: I've been very consistent.

677
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 3: I've always been working with at least one therapist and

678
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 3: or coach and or whatever at the same time. But

679
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 3: therapy therapy, I've kind of I fell off the wagon

680
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 3: for maybe two or three years but I've again, I've

681
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 3: had coaches, I still have, I still work with multiple coaches,

682
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 3: but therapy therapy it kind of felt right. So I've

683
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 3: actually still wanted to see a guy in New York

684
00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 3: who was referred to me by a dear friend of

685
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 3: mine and she had a very traumatic experience and she

686
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 3: actually did a hypnosis therapy session with him and she

687
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 3: got attacked when she was overseas and she said it

688
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 3: it totally worked wonders for her, and so I am

689
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 3: very I fortunately have not had a traumatic experience, but

690
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 3: there's just a couple of things that I've been like,

691
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 3: I think I need.

692
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 2: I felt a few blockers Craig in terms of like

693
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: the business and my merely my mindset. I'm the I'm

694
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: the problem. It's me, to quote Taylor sw So.

695
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 3: So I was like, I'm going to take her a referral,

696
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 3: and you know what, I emailed him two years ago

697
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 3: and it's taken me this long to kind of I

698
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 3: don't know, for some reason, I was like a bit

699
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 3: scared or just like whatever, I wasn't ready and then yeah,

700
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 3: I had a session with him today. I just like

701
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 3: I feel like I have rose colored glasses on, like

702
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 3: I feel it was a really powerful, really powerful session.

703
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: What makes a good therapist? Do you reckon?

704
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: It's a good question because I've had a bad therapist

705
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: as well.

706
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: I had I had a therapist once when I was

707
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 3: when I was a correspondent, I had a therapist and

708
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 3: she was like, do you think you could get me

709
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 3: a job on TV? And I was like, this feels inappropriate?

710
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 3: She was actually, this wasn't. Yeah, this is going back

711
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 3: a long time. So what would I say makes a

712
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 3: good therapist? I think a referral is always nice because

713
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 3: then you're kind of not going in totally blind in

714
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: terms of the quality control. For me, I think it's

715
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 3: someone who has.

716
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: Experienced with a specific situation that you want handled.

717
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 3: So whether it's couple's therapy, whether it's in a child work,

718
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 3: whether it's business whatever. And then just someone who it's

719
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 3: an energetic match. It just feels like they're a good

720
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 3: listener to me. I'm looking for a balance between space

721
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 3: for me to unpack stuff on my own as well

722
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: as a bit of practical strategy tangible. So I kind

723
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 3: of want a bit of both. I want a bit

724
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 3: of handholding and a bit of this is what you're

725
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 3: gonna do next. Some people just want talk or some

726
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 3: people just want tactics.

727
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:47,959
Speaker 2: It's interesting.

728
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 3: We do a lot of executive coaching at my company

729
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 3: and we probably straddle the two, I would say, but

730
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 3: for me, I'm looking of the balance of both.

731
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: Interesting thing about therapy and you know anything really nutrition

732
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: exercise is that obviously different things work for different people. Right.

733
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: It's so I can get five ladies who want to,

734
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: for example, you know, be fit, e, Lena stronger, you know,

735
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: more must whatever, or five dudes or you know, it

736
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, smattering of everyone, it doesn't matter. But even

737
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: if they've got the same goals, we can't take the

738
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: same journey because they don't have the same body. They

739
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: don't have the same personality, they don't have the same

740
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: physiological responses. Their body doesn't interact with that stimulus the

741
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: same as the next person. And so it's like therapy

742
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: is the same. Like you might go and see old

743
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: mate and go, oh, he's a fucking idiot, and I

744
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: go there and I go, she's brilliant, She's amazing, right

745
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: there was I've spoken about this too much, But there's

746
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: a lady called Abigail Schreyer who wrote a book called

747
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: called Bad Therapy, and she was talking about you would

748
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: like this. She was talking about the fact that for

749
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: some people, talk therapy is exactly what they need and

750
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: it's it's very no pun intended therapeutic and valuable, but

751
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 1: for others it's traumatizing. So when you know, you go

752
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: there and you sit down every Tuesday at three and

753
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: you open the door on the trauma that happened seven

754
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: years ago once a week, and then the person's takes

755
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: them three days to get back to status quo because

756
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: they take all that emotional on psychological trauma out the

757
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: door with them again. So I loved Basically she was saying,

758
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: there is no which is no revelation, but there's no

759
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: one size that fits all. And it's trying to understand

760
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: whether or not it's a psychological diet or a physical

761
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: diet or you know, it's like trying to what will

762
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: work optimally for Meggie versus Craig versus John versus Sally.

763
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: And it's even in you think about this, even in Korea,

764
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: like you don't have a lot of certainty and predictability

765
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: because you work for you, so you don't know next

766
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: year how much money you're going to make. But most

767
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: people or do kind of you know, because they've got

768
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: a job and they've been with the company for nine years.

769
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: They know next year, I'm going to earn one hundred

770
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: and thirty grand, give or take, unless I get the sack,

771
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: you know. Whereas with you, you are creative and you

772
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: are solving problems, and you are seeing things that need

773
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 1: to be addressed, and you're you're basically building stuff. Whereas

774
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: for a lot of people that would not work for

775
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,959
Speaker 1: their personality or their psychology.

776
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 3: Well, so I want to challenge you on that because

777
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 3: I actually think I think a lot of us fall

778
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 3: into this trap of I'm going to earn one hundred

779
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 3: and thirty K next year, So why would I talk

780
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 3: to anyone else in my industry?

781
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: Why would I upscale? Why would I have the Why

782
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: would I even.

783
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 3: Think about knowing how to build absite, how to build

784
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 3: a website?

785
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 2: Why would I even bother?

786
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 3: But I actually, I actually and maybe it's because I've

787
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 3: been laid off so I've lived through this experience in

788
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 3: the past. I just think you always need a plan. B. Yeah,

789
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 3: I think that's really important because if you've even if

790
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 3: you've worked for the government for forty years, you could

791
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 3: get made redundant, or by the way, you could be

792
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 3: so miserable in your job that it is the best

793
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 3: thing for your health to leave that company, right Or

794
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 3: you may have a boss that's so toxic that it's

795
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,879
Speaker 3: just not tenable, so you may need like mentally, physically, whatever,

796
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 3: it may be better for your emotional state if you

797
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 3: do leave and if you could leave. So one of

798
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 3: the things that we talk a lot about at Petsalco,

799
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 3: with our community and with our executive coaching is like

800
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: building firstly in your mind the possibility that there are

801
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 3: plan bis and there are options out there for you.

802
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 2: That's the first thing.

803
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 3: To know that it is possible, even if you've been

804
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 3: accountant for thirty years, even if you've been in marketing

805
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 3: for six years, there's other options, because I think otherwise

806
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 3: we get stuck and to our conversation, but before we

807
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 3: got an air, like when we get stuck and we

808
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 3: get stayed, and we get comfortable and like, well, if

809
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 3: I leave, maybe I only make seventy K and I've

810
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 3: got a mortgage, and I actually think, to me, that's

811
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 3: a dangerous place to be because then I think it's

812
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 3: like this, this fear of leaving one hundred and thirty

813
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 3: K that maybe some people stay in situations work wise

814
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 3: are making them sick or that are not serving them,

815
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 3: and in fact you might.

816
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 2: Leave and make two hundred and sixty. Right, it's possible,

817
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 2: maybe not straight away, but eventually.

818
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, I think I agree with you, Like I

819
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: divide what you're saying, I agree with but also there

820
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: are people that for them to be able to get

821
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: themselves out of what they're in right now because of

822
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: their practical is difficult. But yeah, I agree with you,

823
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: And I also like, not even if you're ending a

824
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: fucking million dollars a year, but if you hate it,

825
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: if it's toxic, if it's killing me, well it's a

826
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 1: terrible job. So you know how they talk about work

827
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 1: life balance, I talk about work impact. I go because

828
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: work life balance has gone. Yeah, yeah, like work life

829
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: balance as well. It's kind of if you work this

830
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: many hours and you don't work this many hours, then

831
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 1: you've got this equilibrium, this numerical kind of equation and

832
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: this much work, this much not work. Okay, you've got balance. No,

833
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: that's complete dogshit, because it could work twenty hours a week,

834
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: which is not many but if every hour is fucking horrible,

835
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: that is really bad for your physical, mental, and emotional health. Conversely,

836
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: someone like you or me, probably there's not many weeks

837
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 1: where I wouldn't do it at least sixty hours of something,

838
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: at least in the form of work, because but because

839
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: I love what I do, I rarely get stressed, I

840
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: rarely get anxious. I sleep great, I eat great, I

841
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: work out every day, I have good social life, I

842
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: have friends. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't

843
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: do drugs. And I'm not saying that sound good, but

844
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: I work a lot. But in the middle of all

845
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: of that, working a lot for me and which is

846
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: not a recommendation, but for me it works. So it's

847
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: trying to figure out not only what will I do

848
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: and how much of it will I do, but what

849
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: is the emotional and psychological consequence of that one?

850
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 2: And I think there's a hard question.

851
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 3: And so for people listening or like, I really throw

852
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 3: us a batter in the works there, like I think

853
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,240
Speaker 3: we are like, and I do want to challenge everyone

854
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 3: to think today, like, does your work bring you joy? Now?

855
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be the perfect job. And even

856
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: as entrepreneurs.

857
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 3: Craig running our own business, there's days where I'm like, jeez,

858
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 3: I love a regular paycheck, that'd be nice. But equally,

859
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 3: you know, I do a four day week. My entire

860
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 3: team we only do a four day week. And that's

861
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 3: intentional because I want I want us to.

862
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 2: Live like I want us to be, to be working

863
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 2: to live, not the other way around.

864
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 3: Right for me, that's important from a values perspective, and

865
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 3: I think one thing that's helpful to think about and

866
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 3: even if you know, thinking about Okay, so we're here today,

867
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 3: at some point we're going to die.

868
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: I was born in nineteen eighty four. At some point

869
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to die.

870
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 3: Let's call it twenty eighty four whatever, right, Like let's

871
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 3: say I lived told one hundred as in when I'm

872
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: buried or created, TBD on that. But if there's a gravestone,

873
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 3: you'll have nineteen eighty four to twenty eighty four, and

874
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 3: there's a dash, right, there's a dash between those two years.

875
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 3: And to me, I really for framings to think about,

876
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 3: like what do you want that dash for your life?

877
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 3: What what did that stand for? Like what do you

878
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 3: want to be known for? Because it's not about when

879
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 3: you were born. It's not about when you do. It's

880
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 3: not about the awards, it's not about the bank balance.

881
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 3: Who cares when you diets done? But what is that dash?

882
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 3: What does that represent? What was the essence of how

883
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 3: you lived and who you were when you lived?

884
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 2: Like to me, if you can.

885
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 3: Be like I can on heart, like I feel like

886
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 3: I'm living in alignment with what I would want that

887
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 3: dash to be, then that's great because you can you

888
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 3: can get that impact or that that values alignment from

889
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 3: community work or through your family or volunteering, or it

890
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 3: doesn't have to be through your work. But sometimes your

891
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 3: work is so misaligned from how you want to be remembered.

892
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 3: That's when I think there's a disconnect and there's some

893
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 3: serious questions that folks need to ask.

894
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think more broadly one hundred percent agree

895
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 1: with you, But more broadly, not only does our work

896
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: not align with our values, but neither does our lifestyle.

897
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: Neither do our habits, neither do our relationships, neither does

898
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: our behavior with food. Right right? This is you know,

899
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,919
Speaker 1: it's like, do you want to live in alignment? Well? Cool,

900
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: identify your values and your beliefs and your standards and

901
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: then build an existence around those things, which won't be

902
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: easy or painless or quick, by the way, but once

903
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: you could, you know, I mean that for me, the

904
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: value of values, no pun intended, is that they're basically

905
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: our internal sat nav. It's like, this is your guidance system. Yes,

906
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 1: I've told this story a few times, Meggie, but we

907
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: had You know, we're sponsored, We're on the Nova network,

908
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 1: Shout out to Nova. And more than a few times

909
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: I've been offered really good sponsorships. One massive sponsorship that

910
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 1: I had to say no to because I couldn't. I

911
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: couldn't sell that product that doesn't it would be. One

912
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: of them was Booze. And like I've said a few

913
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: times on the show, I'm not against Booze. I'm against

914
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,439
Speaker 1: alcoholism and people abusing booze because I work with people

915
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: who suffer from addiction issues, amongst other things. And so

916
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: for me to be the guy that works with that

917
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: x and alcoholics, and me the guy that's never had

918
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: alcohol in his life, to then be selling Booze on

919
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: his program, it was very It wasn't a comfortable decision

920
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: because the money would be fun, but it was a

921
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 1: very easy decision because you know that doesn't and that's

922
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: you know, I think when then we extrapolate that out

923
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: to you know, like when I just say to someone

924
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: do you want to be fit, healthy, functional, and you

925
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: know physically operational as well? As everyone goes yes, and

926
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 1: then say all right, are you currently self sabotaging that goal?

927
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: And the answer is yes, yes. You know, it's like,

928
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: what's my typical behavior and does that support who and

929
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: how I want to be or not? All right, we

930
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: want to wind up, but I want to ask you

931
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 1: one or two questions, if that's all right, Yeah, so quick.

932
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: One one of the things that you talk about, I think,

933
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: if I got my research right in your corporate stuff

934
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 1: is imposter syndrome. Mm hmm. Do you have you I'm

935
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 1: sure you have at times felt like an impost stuff.

936
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: Are you through that or does that still leave.

937
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, what a great question.

938
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 3: A thousand Well I have a thousand percent felt like

939
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 3: an impost.

940
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: Have you I still do? I still think this is

941
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: fucking ridiculous that I get to talk to you on

942
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: the other side of the world, no over paying me

943
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: to do this, and I'm just a dumb fuck from

944
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: the country and I know all that sounds, but I do.

945
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm aware of it. Yeah, but yeah, like

946
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: I coexist with my impost syndrome.

947
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's what a great way, a great way

948
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 3: of putting it. It's about I think you want to well,

949
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 3: the coexisting and for me, it's also quietening the voice

950
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 3: slash channeling that voice to propel me forward because and

951
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 3: they reckon, like seventy percent ish of the population experiences

952
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 3: imposter syndrome. And by the way, we're in good company

953
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 3: like Tom Hanks, my Angelou, Michelle Obama, Emma Watson, lots

954
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 3: of lots of really high profile people talk about feeling

955
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 3: like an impost as well. So we're not alone that

956
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 3: the two of us and any folks listening who feel

957
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 3: the same. Yeah. And actually, to be honest, a part

958
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 3: of what we talked about tangentially today in my therapy

959
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 3: session was imposter syndrome. And one of the things that

960
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 3: we work with corporate workshops on is around a strategy

961
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 3: to like, okay, as and when we've identified yes, we're

962
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 3: experiencing that, cool.

963
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 2: Do we let it cripple us?

964
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 3: Or is there actually a three step process that we

965
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 3: can actually follow to navigate through that and use it

966
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 3: actually as a tool rather than a hindred So yeah,

967
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 3: shout out to anyone else who feels you know, I

968
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 3: really appreciate you sharing that, Craig, because I think actually,

969
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 3: if we were more vulnerable and honest with our colleagues,

970
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 3: with our coworkers, we would also give them permission to

971
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 3: share that with us.

972
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: Because sometimes I thought I was the only one.

973
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 3: Like when I started on a really high profile show

974
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 3: as a reporter, I thought like I didn't deserve to

975
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 3: be there. I was like, why have they posted me?

976
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 3: What is happening? And my boss took me aside and

977
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 3: he's like, what's going on?

978
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 2: You're weird? And I was like, I just don't know

979
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 2: why you hired me. I don't know why I'm here.

980
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 3: And he's like, oh, you're experiencing imposter syndrome and I

981
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 3: was like what, I didn't even know what it was.

982
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 3: And he shared with me that he's been feeling like

983
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 3: that for the last thirty five years, which kind of

984
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 3: gave me comfort because I was like, ah, Okay, so

985
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 3: I'm not that weird.

986
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 2: Okay, that's good. He's been through it.

987
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 3: Maybe that gave me permission to know that I wasn't

988
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 3: the weirdest person in the room, you know.

989
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think, yeah, I agree with you. By

990
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: the way, I think it's closer to one hundred percent.

991
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: But anyway, yeah, I admit it. You're quite right. Yeah,

992
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,919
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, for me self, doubt, insecurity, overthinking,

993
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: fear of everything. You know, it's like it's normal. But yeah,

994
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 1: the more that, the funny thing is, on this show

995
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 1: and any forum where you have an audience, the more

996
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 1: vulnerable you are in an intelligent way. But I talk

997
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: to people about it, you know, because I was most

998
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: morbidly Id's kid. I wasn't a great student. I wasn't

999
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: a great athlete. I wasn't I was so fucking mediocre

1000
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: at everything, right, But it's but your mediocrity or you

1001
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, well, Craig, you don't have awesome genetics. Craig,

1002
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: you're not a genius. Craig. You can't run fast, or

1003
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: dance or sing right, Craig. Cool? Okay, Well, with all

1004
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: that in mind, what can I do? Or Can I

1005
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 1: work hard? Yet? Can I make decisions? Can I learn?

1006
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: Can I develop new skills? Can I build resilience? Can

1007
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: I build understanding and awareness? Can I ask good questions?

1008
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 1: Can I take risks. Can I be brave all of that? Right,

1009
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 1: there's so many things that are totally optional that are

1010
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: life shaping and you shaping, you know, and the whole

1011
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 1: fucking self sabotage, which intersects with imposter syndrome where you're

1012
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: overthinking and your self doubt and your frustration and your

1013
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: avoidance and your like that then starts to create this

1014
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy of bad outcomes. You know, we're doing

1015
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: it to ourselves. But you know, like, yeah, I think

1016
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: that that you've I love that you've created your own thing,

1017
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: you know. I love that you've kind of built something

1018
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: from nothing in a good way. You know, you've recognized

1019
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: a need. And so there's this intersection of your creativity

1020
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: and your passion and empathy to help people but also

1021
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: navigate a legitimate problem and do something about it. It's amazing.

1022
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate you saying that, Craig, and it's interesting

1023
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 3: hearing you speak.

1024
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: I heard I forget who it was.

1025
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 3: I heard someone say once that entrepreneurs often create in

1026
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 3: the world what they needed, and I wonder if you've

1027
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 3: created what you needed, what younger you needed, and same

1028
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 3: for I've created what younger Meggie needed in PEP talk her.

1029
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 3: And you know, the speaking that I do in the

1030
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 3: workshops that we run and the executive coaching that we

1031
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 3: do is probably what I needed five to ten years

1032
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 3: ago or maybe even still today. And actually for everyone

1033
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 3: listening as well, I think the bad experience is the

1034
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 3: negative things people told you, that the stories that are

1035
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 3: on repeat in your head that maybe are not serving you.

1036
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 3: Actually could that be a fuel to motivate you, to

1037
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 3: drive you forward.

1038
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 2: Is there a way that actually you could create something

1039
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 2: or help support someone else. Maybe you don't need to

1040
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 2: start a business.

1041
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 3: Maybe just actually your experience of what you went through

1042
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 3: sharing or coaching or counseling someone who's had something similar,

1043
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 3: Maybe that's your gift to be able to pay it

1044
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 3: forward to someone else such that they don't have to

1045
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 3: have as negative experience as what you did.

1046
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: You know.

1047
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 3: I think our stories what make us unique, you know,

1048
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 3: and so often I don't think that we're encouraged to

1049
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 3: share them. We're sort of like, oh, you gotta put

1050
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 3: this perfect face on Instagram or LinkedIn and like everything

1051
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 3: cunkyed orient it's actually not for everyone. And in sharing

1052
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 3: those things, I think in spaces where you feel safe

1053
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 3: and trusted and supported. There's power in that because you

1054
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 3: may give a voice to someone else right, or you

1055
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 3: may actually be sharing something that someone else needs to hear,

1056
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 3: which is I think why you and I both love

1057
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 3: stories so much and the sharing of knowledge.

1058
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is that when you're telling a story, too,

1059
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,720
Speaker 1: especially if it's your story and it's real, you're building

1060
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 1: emotional connection with people, whereas just data information statistics don't

1061
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: tend to resonate with people the same. So if you

1062
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: can be a bit funny, a bit interesting, if you

1063
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: can be a storyteller, you're building connection with people, and

1064
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: then once you've got that connection, then you can kind

1065
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: of see where you want to go from there. But also,

1066
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: you know when people hear about you figuring it out

1067
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: as you go and you being treated poorly and you

1068
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: thinking Okay, I'm going to do something, and then you're

1069
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:10,240
Speaker 1: taking action, then you're building something, and then you being brave.

1070
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: These are not theories or constructs. This is literally your journey,

1071
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:22,720
Speaker 1: so DMA no, but it's your journey and that inspires people.

1072
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: It's like, I think that's the thing, and that's why

1073
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: I try to with these albeit somewhat you know, lumpy

1074
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 1: bumpy change in direction conversations is to not be too strategic.

1075
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 1: Let's not have the big fucking question seven question face

1076
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 1: fuck all that, you know. I did my first six

1077
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: hundred episodes of this show losing money, no sponsors, going backwards,

1078
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: costing me. But I loved every fucking moment of it

1079
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: because I was learning and understanding podcasting versus radio where

1080
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: I came from, and and and understanding you know, not

1081
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: only how to do it, but also how to like,

1082
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 1: what's the science of podcasting, what's the commercial roadmap for podcasting?

1083
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 1: And how do we you know. But at the same time,

1084
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 1: I was meeting people like I'm never going to meet

1085
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: you except for this, and so I get an hour

1086
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 1: with you, which I'm very grateful for. And I'm talking

1087
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: to this really smart person, and I'm learning and it's

1088
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,919
Speaker 1: kind of you know, at the same time, I'm having

1089
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,720
Speaker 1: a good experience. I'm getting taught and trained and told

1090
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: by some of the smartest people in the world on

1091
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 1: a daily basis, and I get paid for it. Now,

1092
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: it's fucking ridiculous. It's a scam.

1093
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 3: Well well, and also, well, you've created that, right because

1094
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 3: you followed your curiosity and you know, you're you're the

1095
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 3: problem that you had that you saw a way to

1096
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 3: solve it, you know what interests you. And I think

1097
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 3: that's coming full circle to our conversation earlier where we

1098
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 3: talked about how ridiculous it is that you're supposed to

1099
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,240
Speaker 3: choose your life direction at you know, sixteen or seventeen

1100
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 3: or eighteen.

1101
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 2: Like look at us. It's like we're like very much

1102
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 2: not teenagers anymore, sadly, but like we're still figuring it out.

1103
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 3: I heard someone once say everything is figure outable, and

1104
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 3: I think that's so true. Like, you know, the President

1105
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 3: of America, the Prime Minister of Australia, the city of

1106
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 3: some fancy bank, they don't know what they're doing either.

1107
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 2: They also did not get a manual. Have they learned stuff?

1108
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 3: Yes?

1109
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: Do they google stuff daily? Yes? Do they ask the

1110
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 2: word for advice?

1111
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 1: Also yes?

1112
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 3: And so like there's no one out there who's like

1113
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 3: the oracle who's got it all sorted. Actually, everyone's reading

1114
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 3: and learning and listening and learning from each other. And

1115
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,839
Speaker 3: I think the sooner that I wish that I'd figure

1116
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 3: that out earlier, I think I thought that people ahead

1117
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 3: of me had some bible that was like taught them

1118
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 3: what to do next. And now that I realized that, actually,

1119
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 3: it's also not the destination that's important.

1120
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 2: Yes, we have goals, Yes we have revenue goals.

1121
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 3: Yes we want to help one hundred thousand people in

1122
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 3: two years, all these sorts of things.

1123
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,280
Speaker 2: Yes, great, great, great, yes, but like who cares?

1124
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 3: Like, actually, the journey and this conversation and my meetings

1125
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 3: earlier today and you know, my team and coaching fascinating

1126
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,240
Speaker 3: women and supporting them through highs and like that's actually

1127
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 3: the joy. And I think figuring out that the journey

1128
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 3: is the joy. It's not about the destination, because the

1129
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 3: destination will change. Like I'm not a journalist anymore. I'm

1130
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 3: also not a lawyer, which.

1131
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 2: I thought I would be at fifteen. Like it's the process,

1132
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 2: Like that's the joy for me.

1133
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: And you're always always going to be in the journey

1134
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: or the journey and the process. And it's about who

1135
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: you become. Like it's not that you know, it's when

1136
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: you take the narrow path. That's when you climb the mountain,

1137
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: that's when you take the stairs. It's it's when you

1138
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 1: do the stuff that most people won't do that you

1139
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 1: become that you build competence and understanding and strength and

1140
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: awareness and skill. And then now you know, it's like

1141
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 1: you go into the gym and you lift, you do

1142
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: a hard thing. You work against resistance to literally become strong.

1143
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 1: So how do you become strong? You literally work against

1144
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: physical resistance and the byproduct is adaptation, and so too

1145
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: mentally emotionally, you know, sociologically, you push against you work

1146
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: against the hard shit. You do what's required, and yes,

1147
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: you create practical measures outcomes, which is beautiful, but also

1148
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,439
Speaker 1: you're becoming fucking you two point zero in the middle

1149
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: of that, you know.

1150
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 3: So yeah, and I think that's the set physically with

1151
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 3: the stuff that you're doing. You know, like if you

1152
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 3: want to get a big muscle, you got to do

1153
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 3: these ones. A week is not enough. But if you

1154
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 3: do it consistently, repetaibly, all of a sudden you got

1155
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 3: big bysets. And the stuff that we do, which is

1156
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 3: a lot about mindset and like negotiation tactics and reframing

1157
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 3: how you show up at work and that.

1158
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 2: Kind of stuff.

1159
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 3: It's repetition, right, it's a practice, and you don't I

1160
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 3: can't give you a pill and fix it. Sorry, It's

1161
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 3: a consistent practice. It's surrounding yourself with people. It's having

1162
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,799
Speaker 3: the tactics, it's reframing when you go off track, you know,

1163
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 3: it's finding the things to be grateful for so that

1164
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 3: again you can come back to enjoying and loving the

1165
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 3: journey and falling in love with that, so that the destination, yes,

1166
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 3: you want to have it in mind. You want to

1167
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 3: be clear where are we going, but as and when

1168
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 3: that changes, as and when you miss it, as and

1169
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 3: when you surpass it. That's superfluous because the process itself

1170
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 3: was the priority.

1171
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: There's another topic that we could do another day, but

1172
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: it's called destination disappointment, Meggie, and it's when you get

1173
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: to where you wanted to go, you get there and

1174
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 1: then you're like, oh this, I'm on the wrong mountain. Fuck,

1175
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: it's that mountain over there, you know. Because we think

1176
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: that when we get there wherever there is, that that's

1177
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: going to equate to some kind of internal nirvana, joy, calm, euphoria.

1178
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: And we get there, we're like, ah, oh hey, we're

1179
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:23,879
Speaker 1: going to wind out, but thank you so much. How

1180
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,839
Speaker 1: do people connect with you, follow you, find you, support you?

1181
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: How do they do that?

1182
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 3: What a treat chatting with you Craig. Yeah, listen, I'm

1183
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 3: on LinkedIn. Meggie Palmer, em Mebgie, So say hi. Let

1184
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 3: me know that you're listening to this amazing podcast, and

1185
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 3: that's how you found me. I love staying touch. Pep

1186
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 3: talk her hr at the end. We're on Instagram and

1187
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 3: our website is pep talker dot com. If folks need

1188
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 3: support with salary negotiations, with supporting their learning and development

1189
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,879
Speaker 3: teams at work, or cannot speaking, please reach out. We'd

1190
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,800
Speaker 3: love to support you. But I'm just I'm just a

1191
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 3: lighted that you're having these conversations. I'm looking forward to

1192
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 3: Destination Disappointment the next episode.

1193
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 2: That sounds like a LinkedIn post to me, Craig.

1194
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: It does, it does. Let's let's do that. Hey, we'll

1195
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: say goodbye Affair. But for the moment, I appreciate you

1196
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 1: so much and thanks for staying up to do this.

1197
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 2: You're the best.

1198
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: Talk to you.

1199
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 2: Scene