1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm suan Alma. 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: The pandemic saw a surge in the number of people 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: moving from cities to regional areas, and while that rush 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: of one way traffic has certainly eased, there's still plenty 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: of curiosity from city dwellers about the potential for a 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: tree change. New research from the Regional Australia Institute compares 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: aspects of liverability in areas right across the country. The 8 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: data includes median income and home prices, showing the relative 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: affordability of living in the regions. Liz Richie is the 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: CEO of Regional Australia Institute. Liz, welcome back to Fear 11 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: and Greed. 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:42,599 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. 13 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: So just explain what the data does. It's all part 14 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: of the Good Life Guide. What are you comparing? Look? 15 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 2: This tool is actually a kind of second iteration of 16 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 2: a previous tool we used to have called a move 17 00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 2: tool that was first launched in late twenty nineteen. Fant 18 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 2: this tool to not only include more metrics, but to 19 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 2: also kind of come at it from a greater affordability 20 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 2: lens and a livability lens. So the metrics that we're 21 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 2: using are looking at medium income, medium house price, distance 22 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: to national parks, distance to coastal locations, and then it 23 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 2: also provides income to house price ratio, and that as 24 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 2: a metric is really about getting under the hood of 25 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 2: is this region affordable? And when you start to compare 26 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: our regional locations with our metro locations, it's frightening. And 27 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: therefore what we see is a solid proposition for those 28 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 2: people who are regionally curious and on the edge of 29 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 2: making that move, that this tool might help them just 30 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 2: get over. 31 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: The line regionally curious. I like that, Lisa, give me 32 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: a couple of examples, maybe Victorian one in the New 33 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: South Wales one, because I have looked at the report 34 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: and there are some quite incredible differences between how much 35 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: money you make and what a house costs in Melbourne, 36 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: for example, versus Sheperton. 37 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: Sure, well, look, I've got a couple of examples that 38 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: I can share with you. So if we look in Victoria, 39 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 2: the suburb of Manningham in Melbourne has a medium income 40 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: of around sixty thousand and the house prices there are 41 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: upwards of one point three million. Therefore, the price to 42 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: income ratio is sitting at about twenty one. Now, if 43 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: you compare that with a popular regional city in Victoria Ballarat, 44 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: you can see that actually the medium income is hovering 45 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 2: only just slightly below sixty thousand, so it's really comparable 46 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: to that metro income. Yet the medium house prices are 47 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 2: sitting at just above half a million, and so the 48 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 2: price to income ratio here is at eight point six, 49 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: So it's pretty stark when you compare those two. I 50 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 2: can quickly look at an example in New South Wales, 51 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: the region of Fairfield. The income average income is fifty 52 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 2: two thousand, yet the medium house price is sitting at 53 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: a million versus Aubrey, where the medium income is actually 54 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: higher at fifty eight thousand per year, and yet the 55 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: medium house price is a little over half a million. 56 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: So you can start to see really quickly how much 57 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: more affordable it is and how much further your income 58 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 2: will go for you. In those locations, you're that much 59 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: closer to owning your own home. 60 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: Okay. One of the big challenges though moving to the 61 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: regions is employment. Have it is a work from home 62 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: shift helped that are their jobs in some of these 63 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: regional centers. I mean, I'm sure that's a reason many 64 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: people don't actually move to the reds. 65 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I mean to answer your first question, we've 66 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: come off the back of record job vacancies in the 67 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: last twelve months. If we were talking twelve months ago, Sean, 68 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: we were sitting at ninety five thousand jobs and their 69 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 2: advertised jobs. That has come off slightly and we're hovering 70 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: between seventy to seventy five thousand, but these are still 71 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: extraordinarily high numbers that we're seeing. And these are professional 72 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: jobs like these are the engineers, the nurses, the educators. 73 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: We are crying out for tradesmen to build the houses 74 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: that we need. We might get to that. So there 75 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 2: are jobs of plenty. But supporting the jobs in situ 76 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 2: in those regional locations are people who are taking their 77 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: job with them and you know, normalizing hybrid and remote 78 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: work my organization, you know, we're headquartered out of Canberra, 79 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 2: but the majority of my staff rightly so live in 80 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 2: regional Australia. And you know this this is the new norm. 81 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 2: And the more that we can embrace this in the 82 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: private sector and the public sector, the better for our nation, 83 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: because the broader our settlement will be. 84 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: Stay with me, Liz we'll be back in a minute. 85 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: My guest this morning is Liz Richie, CEO of the 86 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: Regional Australia Institute. So we're talking about income here and 87 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: owning your own home. So let's say we tick that 88 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: one better to be in Ballarat or Aubrey than it 89 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: is to be in Melbourne or Sydney. And if we 90 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: can get a job, that's good. Why else would we 91 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 1: go to the regions? I appreciate this is the Dorothy 92 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: Dixter and I start. I grew up in regional in 93 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: New South Wales, so I know all the reasons to go, 94 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: but I also know the reasons not to go. 95 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: Liz Well, I mean, you know we've done the research 96 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: on this. People are looking for better quality of life 97 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 2: and they see that in regional Australia. I mean regional communities, 98 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: not on what they were when perhaps you and I 99 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: grew up in our regional locations. I'm a Denny girl, Danelliquensis. 100 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 2: Don't know Denny and very proud to be so. But 101 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 2: what I would say about my hometown, and I believe 102 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: you grew up in Orange, I mean these places are 103 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 2: beautiful communities that are gentrified. They have incredible hospitality offerings, 104 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: incredible retail. I was just in Orange a couple of 105 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 2: weeks ago. I was blown away, So you know the amenity. 106 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: That's a weather list, that's a weather in Orange. You 107 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: were blown away literally. 108 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 2: Oh no, it was actually one of those very special 109 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 2: you know, twenty days I'm going to say. But you know, 110 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: they're much more sophisticated. And actually you can link the 111 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 2: sophistication of these regional communities to the change in employment profiles. 112 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 2: So you know, you could look at ten to twelve 113 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: years ago, the highest proportion of job vacancies was in 114 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 2: low to medium high skill base, whereas today the highest 115 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 2: proportion of jobs available are in the high skill professional 116 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: So you need to be fully qualified. And this really 117 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 2: speaks to the changing nature, the very social fabric of 118 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: our regional communities. These are great places to live. 119 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: Okay, what about education, And let's use Orange as the example. 120 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: My hometown when I grew up, there were three high 121 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: skills I think there's at least six now. And it's 122 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: not that the population hasn't doubled. I mean it's much higher, 123 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: but it hasn't doubled. But education, that is another reason 124 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: people don't move to the country. 125 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, this is this continues to be a bit 126 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 2: of a sticking point, but I think to use the 127 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: Orange example is probably the standout. I mean, you know, 128 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: you've got places like Orange and others in regional Australia 129 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 2: that have understood that diversity of education offering is vital 130 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 2: to developing a strong liveability strategy and a strong population 131 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: attraction retention strategy. Now, not all regional communities are in 132 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: a position to welcome independent schools. We understand that, but 133 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: there needs to be some work done to ensure that 134 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: communities that do wish to expand their education offering have 135 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: those opportunities in front of them and that diversity is 136 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: really important to people when considering a move to reach 137 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 2: in all Australia. Again, you know, unfortunately through our work 138 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 2: in the Regionalization Ambition, which is a ten year plan 139 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 2: to rebalance the nation, we can see that the education 140 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: outcomes have consistently not been on par with metropolitan education outcomes. 141 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 2: This is a great concern to me, but it's also 142 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 2: this has been dealt with right now. It was dealt 143 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 2: with through the University Cord and Minister Claire is doing 144 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 2: a lot of work to ensure that we can get 145 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 2: better out comps. This doesn't happen overnight. This is generous, 146 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 2: you know, decades of under investment in our education outcomes 147 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 2: in Regional Australia and it's going to take targeted strategy. 148 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 2: So it's a hot button issue. 149 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: And just briefly health that's the other big one of course, 150 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: whether you get access to health services. 151 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, again, we look at this from a variety of lenses. 152 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 2: I guess as the Regional Australia Institute, we're not sort 153 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 2: of experts in health delivery, but in the same vein 154 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 2: in our ambition, you know, we have a metric there 155 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: around ensuring that we've got medical practitioners that are at 156 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 2: suitable levels with population growth, and you know we've seen 157 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 2: small changes and heading in a positive direction to get 158 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: closer to the desired outcome there. But that's just one metric. 159 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many health metrics that you can 160 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: look at that are worrying when it comes to Regional Australia. 161 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: We know that and this is why it's on the 162 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: agen up. I know myself, my parents still living den Eloquent, 163 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 2: they spend most of their time on the road heading 164 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: to larger centers or Melbourne for their medical appointments. So 165 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 2: this is an issue that's you know, it is present, 166 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 2: particularly as you're aging and in the latter part of life. 167 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 2: But we just have to continue to demand more. 168 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: Okay, what then, just sort of wrapping it up, what 169 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: are the migration flows like? So we had a lot 170 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: of people going when they realized they could go, and 171 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: there are also examples of people moving back to the 172 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: cities in more recent times. But what are the flows 173 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: like at the moment? 174 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, the flows are very strong still, so in 175 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 2: the in the March quarter, so we do a quarterly 176 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 2: release March quarter this year, we're at twenty percent above 177 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 2: pre pandemic levels. 178 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: Of people moving to regional yep. 179 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 2: Wow, back up to some of the highest levels that 180 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 2: we saw in the midst of COVID. So you know 181 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 2: it's the March quarter. The June quarter we saw a 182 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 2: slight dip, but we see that because it's seasonal, it's 183 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 2: middle of the year. So that went to still sixteen 184 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 2: percent above pre pandemic levels of movement. So this trend 185 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 2: is not abating. There are stories featured every now and 186 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 2: then of someone who didn't like it and they moved back. 187 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: We are going to get that. You know, it's not 188 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 2: going to be for everyone, but for the majority. We 189 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 2: have countless stories available through our Move to More campaign 190 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 2: that share why they love living in Regional Australia, why 191 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 2: they'd never moved back, and why they wish they'd done 192 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: it ten years earlier. 193 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 1: Fair enough, Liz, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 194 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. 195 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: That was Liz Richie, Chief executive of the Regional Australia Institute. 196 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join us 197 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, 198 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: daily business news for people who make their own decisions. 199 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: I'm Sean ail Mark. Enjoy your day, do you