WEBVTT - The Howard Effect: In the Shadows of the Australian Dream

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<v Speaker 1>His Excellency has accepted my advice and the election will

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<v Speaker 1>be held on the third of October. The main issue

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<v Speaker 1>in this election campaign will be that of economic competence.

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<v Speaker 2>The main issue will be It's just over two years

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<v Speaker 2>into his first term and John Howard has taken the

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<v Speaker 2>country to another election. In that short time. He seized

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<v Speaker 2>the medal of economic credibility away from Labour and we've

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<v Speaker 2>written the argument about who could be trusted to manage

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<v Speaker 2>the economy.

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<v Speaker 1>We have turned a deficit inherited from mister Beasley and

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<v Speaker 1>mister Keating of ten and a half billion dollars into

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<v Speaker 1>a surplus a year earlier than predicted. We have delivered

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<v Speaker 1>the lowest interest rates in thirty years for both home

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<v Speaker 1>buyers and small business. We have delivered the lowest inflation

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<v Speaker 1>rate in the OECD.

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<v Speaker 2>The memory of Labour's reforms while in government was suddenly distant,

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<v Speaker 2>and the constant reminder of the devastating recession of the

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<v Speaker 2>nineties we're kept fresh in the mind of voters by

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<v Speaker 2>Howard and his Treasurer Petty Costello.

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<v Speaker 1>When our government came to office, Labor head the comonlaew

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<v Speaker 1>of government on a path of Differson then right into

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<v Speaker 1>the next century.

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<v Speaker 2>Australia was going backwards. How dets economic management became the

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<v Speaker 2>major selling point for Howard in every election from thereon.

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<v Speaker 1>In Labor head, you pay for their economic incompetence time

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<v Speaker 1>and time again, and if they got back in, they'll

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<v Speaker 1>make you pay for it again. Don't go back to

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<v Speaker 1>Labour Australia. Just canter Ford's Authorized by L Crosby for

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<v Speaker 1>the Libook Patic Camera.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven Am. This

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<v Speaker 2>is The Howard Effect, a three part series marking thirty

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<v Speaker 2>years since John Howard's emphatic election victory. Today author Amy

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<v Speaker 2>Rimikus on the economic revolution that defined his government, the

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<v Speaker 2>tax reforms, the housing settings, and the policy choices that

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<v Speaker 2>helped create the Australia we were all still living in.

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<v Speaker 2>This is episode two in the Shadows of the Australian Dream.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, what was Howard's pitch on the economy and

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<v Speaker 2>why did it work?

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<v Speaker 3>Howard's pitch on the economy is one that would be

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<v Speaker 3>very familiar to voters no matter what age they are,

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<v Speaker 3>and that is fixing Labour's black hole.

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<v Speaker 1>Labor left us despite all the protestations of mister Beasley

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<v Speaker 1>and mister Keating a deficit of ten and a half

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<v Speaker 1>billion dollars and we turned that into a surplus a

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<v Speaker 1>year ahead of schedules.

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<v Speaker 3>And Howard's greatest trick was, along with Peter Costello, his

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<v Speaker 3>long term loyal treasurer, was teaching Australians that the household

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<v Speaker 3>budget was very similar to the Commonwealth budget and that

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<v Speaker 3>you didn't put things on the credit card, and debt

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<v Speaker 3>was bad and surplus savings was good.

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<v Speaker 4>In periods of growth, we must put away savings for

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<v Speaker 4>the downturns. But far from saving, the previous government kept

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<v Speaker 4>wretcheting up our debts, spending money it didn't hand.

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<v Speaker 3>And as Paul Keating would famously say to Mark Laate

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<v Speaker 3>them that, you know, Howard and Costello had been slapped

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<v Speaker 3>on the ass by a rainbow because they came to

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<v Speaker 3>government around the same time as a once in a

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<v Speaker 3>generation mining boom, which meant that not only did they

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<v Speaker 3>have all of this resource money coming in, they also

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<v Speaker 3>had an increase of tax receipts that has virtually been

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<v Speaker 3>unseen in Australia, you know, since and that meant they

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<v Speaker 3>had a lot of money to spend, and they did

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<v Speaker 3>spend while also managing to have a surplus.

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<v Speaker 5>Here in Western Australia, evidence of the mining boom is

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<v Speaker 5>everywhere you look. This is the Capital Perth as you

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<v Speaker 5>can see the skylines dominated by cranes building new office

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<v Speaker 5>space for companies like Chevron, hp Rio, Tinto and Woodside.

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<v Speaker 2>The legend of Howard the steady economic Manager was forged

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<v Speaker 2>in the glow of the resources boom, swing commodity prices,

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<v Speaker 2>swelling tax receipts and budget surpluses. Yet history looks different

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<v Speaker 2>when reviewing the record of his time as Treasurer in

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<v Speaker 2>the phrase years.

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<v Speaker 3>The thing about all of this, though, is that when

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<v Speaker 3>we think of Howard, we think of that truism that

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<v Speaker 3>he was a great economic manager, But a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>people don't actually go back to when he was Treasurer

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<v Speaker 3>himself in the Malcolm Fraser government. When he finished his

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<v Speaker 3>tenure in nineteen eighty three, inflation was running at about

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<v Speaker 3>eleven percent, unemployment was sitting around ten percent, and yes

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<v Speaker 3>he was dealing with the hangovers of stagflation, which was

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<v Speaker 3>a global financial crisis that swept most of the industrialized world.

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<v Speaker 3>But it also is the time when he got the

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<v Speaker 3>nickname honest John.

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<v Speaker 1>Does John Howard believe it was to plague himself as

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<v Speaker 1>honest John, honor, as honest John, as just the sort

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<v Speaker 1>of honest.

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<v Speaker 4>State that we can expect in Australian.

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<v Speaker 3>Politics, from which was meant as a derogative term for

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<v Speaker 3>him because he often would not tell the truth about

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<v Speaker 3>what was going on with the budget. And that's all

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<v Speaker 3>down to the fact that he was slapped in the

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<v Speaker 3>ass by a rainbow with the mining boom, and he

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<v Speaker 3>essentially used that to teach Australians that I can give

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<v Speaker 3>you all of the tax cuts in the world and

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<v Speaker 3>also deliver surpluses, aren't I amazing? And we know thirty

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<v Speaker 3>years on that is not the case. And all of

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<v Speaker 3>that spending that he did is a massive reason of

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<v Speaker 3>why the budgets in the position it is today.

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<v Speaker 2>Out of all the economic reforms cemented into what would

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<v Speaker 2>become known as middle class welfare, it was his changes

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<v Speaker 2>to taxes relating to housing investment that are still being

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<v Speaker 2>felt by generations of Australians today.

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<v Speaker 3>The really big thing that he hated was the capital

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<v Speaker 3>gains tax that Hawk had put in place. He really

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<v Speaker 3>hated it, but by the time that he got into

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<v Speaker 3>a leadership position where he could address that it had

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<v Speaker 3>been baked into the tax system so much that he

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<v Speaker 3>couldn't get rid of it. So what he and Costello

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<v Speaker 3>did was they came up with the capital gains tax discount,

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<v Speaker 3>which is fifty percent. So if you sell a house,

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<v Speaker 3>you know fifty percent of that profit is essentially tax free.

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<v Speaker 3>Is the most simple way to explain that. And what

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<v Speaker 3>that did was it completely turbocharged the housing market because

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<v Speaker 3>it suddenly made investment in housing a sure bet.

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<v Speaker 1>To encourage investment, the capital gains tax has been virtually

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<v Speaker 1>hard with special provisions for those in small business who

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<v Speaker 1>worked hard all of their lives and what to retire

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<v Speaker 1>on the proceeds of their effort and hard work.

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<v Speaker 3>And he essentially laid it out that this was the

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<v Speaker 3>way for mums and dads to build further wealth, that

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<v Speaker 3>this way they could then extend that wealth by buying

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<v Speaker 3>a second house that would help set them and their

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<v Speaker 3>children up for the future. And it had almost an

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<v Speaker 3>immediate impact on housing prices in Australia. He would say

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<v Speaker 3>that no one was complaining to him about their house

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<v Speaker 3>prices going up.

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't found anybody in seven and a half years

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<v Speaker 1>shake the efficiently and say how I'm angry with you

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<v Speaker 1>for letting the value of my house increase.

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<v Speaker 3>And it also had the added benefit for Kim of

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<v Speaker 3>entrenching those battlers because they suddenly saw their houses increase

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<v Speaker 3>in value, which added to their individual wealth. But between

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<v Speaker 3>two thousand and two and two thousand and four, prices

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<v Speaker 3>increased by more than forty percent in Sydney, nearly sixty

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<v Speaker 3>five percent in Brisbane, and almost thirty percent in Melbourne.

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<v Speaker 3>It was so immediate that by two thousand and four

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<v Speaker 3>the Productivity Commission was warning about the impact of this

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<v Speaker 3>policy on the housing stock and what it meant for

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<v Speaker 3>housing prices.

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<v Speaker 2>But Howard and.

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<v Speaker 3>Costello were so worried about the backlash from those middle

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<v Speaker 3>class votors that they didn't want to do anything, even

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<v Speaker 3>though we knew as early as the two thousands that

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<v Speaker 3>this was having a detrimental impact on housing costs for

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<v Speaker 3>the future.

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<v Speaker 2>Howard was securing his own narrative around housing prices and

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that removing a tax benefit that created wealth

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<v Speaker 2>for his battlers was a ligne no government could cross

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<v Speaker 2>without betraying the very people it claimed to represent. Its

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<v Speaker 2>impact on future generations was of no immediate political consequence.

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<v Speaker 3>He completely deflected from it almost immediately. And there's a

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<v Speaker 3>phone call with ABC six twelve Brisbane Radio, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>in the early two thousands, where an older woman named

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<v Speaker 3>Phyllis rings up to speak to the Prime Minister on

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<v Speaker 3>the Morning show and she was talking about how worried

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<v Speaker 3>she was for her children and grandchildren being able to

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<v Speaker 3>afford a house and Howard very famously says, no one

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<v Speaker 3>is coming up to me in the street and complaining

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<v Speaker 3>about their house prices going up, And she said, well,

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<v Speaker 3>let me be the first. I want to complain because

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<v Speaker 3>I want to downsize my property, but I am buying

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<v Speaker 3>and selling in the same market and what I would

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<v Speaker 3>want to buy is almost as much as what I'm

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<v Speaker 3>selling my house for. But I'm also very worried about

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<v Speaker 3>what my grandchildren are going to be able to do,

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<v Speaker 3>and how it just deflects from this. He's just like, no,

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<v Speaker 3>this is a good thing for Australia. Everyone's going to

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<v Speaker 3>become more wealthy. And that woman Phyllis was right. Her

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<v Speaker 3>grandchildren would now be trying to buy in this market

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<v Speaker 3>and short of having the bank of Mum and Dad,

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<v Speaker 3>they would find it almost impossible to buy in Australia,

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<v Speaker 3>is certainly impossible to buy in a comparatible area to

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<v Speaker 3>where they grew up. What he never spoke about and

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<v Speaker 3>people didn't seem to realize until it was too late,

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<v Speaker 3>was that sure, mom and dad, investors, you can buy

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<v Speaker 3>a house. That's not going to have too much impact

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<v Speaker 3>on the housing market. But Howard was helping the investor class.

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<v Speaker 3>He was helping the already wealthy buy more properties and

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<v Speaker 3>then create scarcity to ensure that the market would increase

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<v Speaker 3>to a point where if they sold, they would make

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<v Speaker 3>a profit. And that's what's happened. You can look at

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<v Speaker 3>ATO data and you can see that about you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's about two and a half thousand people

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<v Speaker 3>control more than thirty thousand rental properties in Australia. And

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<v Speaker 3>they're doing that because they've leveraged all of the little

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<v Speaker 3>tax incentives and all of the little bonuses that Howard

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<v Speaker 3>had put in place thirty years ago to make it

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<v Speaker 3>easier that if you have wealth, you can continue to

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<v Speaker 3>build wealth, and you can also continue to make things

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<v Speaker 3>alone a lot more expensive for anybody coming up after you, coming.

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<v Speaker 2>Up buying the middle class void by the mining boom,

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<v Speaker 2>Howard funded sweeping tax cuts and rewired the tax system

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<v Speaker 2>so higher earners received larger breaks than those on lower incomes.

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<v Speaker 2>In doing so, he shifted more of the relative burden

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<v Speaker 2>down the scale in trench middle class welfare and made

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<v Speaker 2>those concessions politically near impossible to unwind.

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<v Speaker 3>So what he did was he basically rebalanced our tax system,

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<v Speaker 3>so if you were at the higher end of the

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<v Speaker 3>tax system, you started getting much higher tax breaks than

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<v Speaker 3>if you were at the lower end of the system.

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<v Speaker 3>So he just reorganized those tax receipts to better fit

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<v Speaker 3>his view of the world, which is that if you

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<v Speaker 3>made money, you clearly deserved more of a break, and

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<v Speaker 3>that we could give that to you.

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<v Speaker 1>At the heart of our new tech system lies the

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<v Speaker 1>largest personal income tax cut in Australia's history, twelve billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollars to give Australian workers genuine reward for their efforts.

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<v Speaker 3>Before that, we'd had a more progressive tax system, where

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<v Speaker 3>the more you made, the more you paid in income tax.

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<v Speaker 3>But Howard kind of he didn't, you know, completely put

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<v Speaker 3>the onus on lower income and middle class income, but

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<v Speaker 3>he did rebalance it so they were paying a lot

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<v Speaker 3>more comparatively to what people were paying at the upper

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<v Speaker 3>ends of the scale, and he built that into the

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<v Speaker 3>pack system. So essentially that means that anybody coming after

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<v Speaker 3>Howard could not walk back these tax cuts without paying

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<v Speaker 3>a massive political cost. And we still see that, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>we saw that in twenty nineteen when Labor started raising,

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<v Speaker 3>changing negative gearing and also having a look at, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>how the tax system was organized.

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<v Speaker 1>Bill Shorten's about to take the biggest risk so far

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<v Speaker 1>as Labor leader. He's going to tackle negative gearing used

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<v Speaker 1>by more than one point two. Everyone knows that negative

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<v Speaker 1>gearing is overdue for reform under Labour's.

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<v Speaker 3>Proposed We're seeing it now as we're starting to have

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<v Speaker 3>a conversation again about capital gains tax.

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<v Speaker 5>The government is now strongly hinting it's considering changes to

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<v Speaker 5>the capital gains tax discount, and a growing number of

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<v Speaker 5>prominent voices have thrown this.

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<v Speaker 3>If we saw it with the Stage three tax cuts,

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<v Speaker 3>where the Liberals sought to bake in higher tax breaks

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<v Speaker 3>for higher income earners, which is a continuation of Howard's policy,

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<v Speaker 3>and they didn't bank the mining boom in any significant

0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.679
<v Speaker 3>way like they did pay off debt. They were famous

0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.920
<v Speaker 3>for that, and they did create the Future Fund, which

0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.640
<v Speaker 3>is basically a big investment pot that the federal government

0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.760
<v Speaker 3>sets up to help pay future bills. And they also

0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.439
<v Speaker 3>set it up, they said, to pay the retirement benefits

0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.319
<v Speaker 3>that were coming to the Commonwealth public servants. So they

0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:10.160
<v Speaker 3>were aware of the generational bload that was coming on

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 3>the budget. But most of the windfall from the mining

0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.600
<v Speaker 3>boom did get baked into tax cuts and into spending.

0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:19.600
<v Speaker 3>I mean, if you want to go back to the

0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.040
<v Speaker 3>analogy that Howard and Costello loved using, which is like

0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.640
<v Speaker 3>the household budget, it would be the equivalent of you

0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:30.200
<v Speaker 3>winning two hundred and fifty thousand dollars and the lotto

0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.200
<v Speaker 3>and then spending for the rest of your life as

0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.240
<v Speaker 3>if you were going to win two hundred and fifty

0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:39.160
<v Speaker 3>thousand dollars in the lotto forever, when you weren't.

0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Despite saying in the lead up to the nineteen ninety

0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.600
<v Speaker 2>six election that he would never introduce a GST, oh.

0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.760
<v Speaker 1>Way, GST will ever be part of our policy, never ever,

0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:51.480
<v Speaker 1>never ever, it's dead.

0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.600
<v Speaker 2>In ninety ninety eight he took a ten percent goods

0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.800
<v Speaker 2>and services tax to an election, and it only costume

0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 2>government we pay enough taxes as it is.

0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.440
<v Speaker 1>It's just why I should it go outly ten cents.

0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:04.360
<v Speaker 2>But it does add up in the long run. So

0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:05.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's the how it's going to lose

0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.680
<v Speaker 2>an election over this, but he will do the election

0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.240
<v Speaker 2>over this, and I've always voted libering. His government lost

0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 2>the popular vote with fifty one percent of the two

0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:17.520
<v Speaker 2>party preferred result going to the LP, losing eighteen seats

0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:21.360
<v Speaker 2>in total, but he clung on and so the GST

0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:23.240
<v Speaker 2>was pushed through the new parliament.

0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:29.000
<v Speaker 3>The introduction of the GST, it did almost cost him government,

0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.760
<v Speaker 3>but he was intent on doing it because again to him,

0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.600
<v Speaker 3>that was a very fair way of working out the

0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.040
<v Speaker 3>tax system. The more that you bought them, the more

0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.560
<v Speaker 3>that you individually paid, and that made sense to Howard.

0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.680
<v Speaker 1>There is no doubt, my fellow Austradians, that this country

0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:49.200
<v Speaker 1>desperately needs a new taxation system.

0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:53.720
<v Speaker 3>It's also something that really impacts lower earners and middle

0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.360
<v Speaker 3>class owners more than it does the rich, because they

0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:00.320
<v Speaker 3>tend to buy more essentials. They're constantly having to buy,

0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.680
<v Speaker 3>you know, the cheap pair of shoes, or they're constantly

0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.760
<v Speaker 3>having to do like you know, a grocery shop around

0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:11.560
<v Speaker 3>those very essential basics that constantly, you know, we're propping

0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:15.040
<v Speaker 3>up the GST, and so he pushed this through as

0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:16.480
<v Speaker 3>a way of saying, this is going to make a

0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.880
<v Speaker 3>fairrh Australia and in return, I'm going to give the

0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.000
<v Speaker 3>states x amount of money.

0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:26.720
<v Speaker 1>Every last cent of the GST revenue will go to

0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:31.360
<v Speaker 1>the states. Every state in Australia over time will have

0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:37.840
<v Speaker 1>more money to fund the roads, police, schools, and hospitals

0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.320
<v Speaker 1>so important to our daily lives.

0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 3>And what it did is is essentially it's locked the

0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:48.200
<v Speaker 3>States into requiring GST receipts in order to be able

0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:49.760
<v Speaker 3>to do anything.

0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:51.920
<v Speaker 2>Cap in hand, every time they want, every single.

0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.840
<v Speaker 3>Time they want something. It's one of the only ways

0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:57.400
<v Speaker 3>that the states can get money. And you know that's

0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.880
<v Speaker 3>why we're constantly talking about raising the GST. But it

0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:05.639
<v Speaker 3>also ideologically means that we constantly talk about this individual tax,

0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.520
<v Speaker 3>the GST and raising that rather than taxing multinationals. And

0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:11.960
<v Speaker 3>every single time, like you go to a public hospital

0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.400
<v Speaker 3>or a road isn't built or whatever, the state government

0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.560
<v Speaker 3>will inevitably blame the federal government for not giving them

0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:19.840
<v Speaker 3>enough in tax receipts and all of that is just

0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.360
<v Speaker 3>an implicit way to blame individuals for not essentially spending

0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.080
<v Speaker 3>enough and you know, propping it up. So again, it

0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:30.040
<v Speaker 3>was Howard readdressing the tax system to put more onus

0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:34.760
<v Speaker 3>and responsibility on individual tax payers rather than richer people

0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.680
<v Speaker 3>and corporates who actually could afford to be paying more

0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:41.200
<v Speaker 3>tax to pay for the services that we all need

0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:41.600
<v Speaker 3>and use.

0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.399
<v Speaker 2>And finally, I mean, what is Howard himself said about

0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:49.040
<v Speaker 2>his legacy in this area, particularly when it comes to housing.

0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.600
<v Speaker 3>Oh, he has no regrets. Howard has absolutely no regrets.

0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.040
<v Speaker 3>He essentially talks about it as he set up Australia,

0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:57.840
<v Speaker 3>you know, for generations of wealth.

0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:03.119
<v Speaker 1>I'd like them to remember that we tried to boost

0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.320
<v Speaker 1>the Australian economy with a wide range of reforms such

0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:11.440
<v Speaker 1>as taxation reform and industry relations Reforman he.

0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.480
<v Speaker 3>Will just blame migration for Australians not to be able

0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.000
<v Speaker 3>to afford housing when that's not true, or he will

0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:21.840
<v Speaker 3>blame you know, supply Again, that is not true. In

0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.959
<v Speaker 3>terms of Australia's population over the last ten years or so,

0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.800
<v Speaker 3>that increased sixteen percent, housing stock increased by nineteen percent.

0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:32.680
<v Speaker 3>But when you take into account, you know, scarcity or distribution,

0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:38.480
<v Speaker 3>things become very very uneven. But Howard has not accepted

0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:42.520
<v Speaker 3>responsibility for any of that. He hasn't accepted responsibility for

0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:44.760
<v Speaker 3>the way that he set up the budget in terms

0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.199
<v Speaker 3>of the middle class welfare that he baked in. He

0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:51.359
<v Speaker 3>hasn't taken responsibility for the fact that the capital gains

0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:57.399
<v Speaker 3>tax discount just absolutely just completely obliterated Australia's chances of

0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.879
<v Speaker 3>being able to afford a home. He just essentially falls

0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:02.600
<v Speaker 3>back on the or, well, if you work hard enough,

0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:04.200
<v Speaker 3>you'll you'll be able.

0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:04.679
<v Speaker 2>To get it.

0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.840
<v Speaker 3>It's always about the personal responsibility with Howard, and that's

0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.560
<v Speaker 3>always been his get out of jail free card, in

0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:14.360
<v Speaker 3>that it's always your fault if you're not getting ahead.

0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.040
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, Howard has not taken any responsibility, but he

0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.159
<v Speaker 3>hasn't taken much responsibility for anything at all that he

0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:22.080
<v Speaker 3>did to Australia.

0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Amy, thank you for your time.

0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:26.239
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:40.760
<v Speaker 2>In the next episode of The Howard Affect.

0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 1>Multiculturalism is a concept that I've always had a bit

0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.680
<v Speaker 1>of trouble with. I take the view that if people

0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:52.119
<v Speaker 1>were to emigrate in your country, it's on the basis

0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:56.280
<v Speaker 1>that they adopt the values and the practices and the

0:19:56.320 --> 0:20:00.280
<v Speaker 1>standards of that country, and in return they're entitled have

0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:06.240
<v Speaker 1>the host citizenry respect their culture.

0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:08.480
<v Speaker 2>That's tomorrow, See you then