1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:01,080 Speaker 1: I'll get a team. 2 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 2: You projects my name, David, Bryan, Kevin, Patrick Gillespie, Tiffany 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 2: and Margaret Veronica Cook over there, just bloody. I tell 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 2: you what, everyone, it's been hard work for two days 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 2: because she's been fucking grumpy grumpy mcgrumster. But the curtain's 6 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 2: been pulled back. She's got a little smiley face on. 7 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 2: There's a little bit of light coming out of the darkness. 8 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: Are you over that? 9 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 3: I'm over that. I am. 10 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 4: Thank you for enduring the storm. 11 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: That's all right. 12 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: We all have our own storms and the storms of 13 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: others to endure periodically. David, Kevin, Patrick Gillespie. You don't 14 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 2: seem to be a moody type. Would you say your 15 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: temperament is quite even? Or are you predisposed to peaks 16 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 2: and troughs but you keep it hidden. 17 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 5: I think it's mostly pretty even. I think I probably 18 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 5: had more peaks and troughs when I was eating sugar. 19 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 5: I think you experienced mood swings more when you're on sugar. 20 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 5: But yeah, I see that tip. 21 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 4: Agree, Well, I'm down, Let's go kick me while I'm down. 22 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: Go on. 23 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: That's pretty That's pretty much the core component of her diet. 24 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: Sometimes she has sugar with a bit of protein sprinkled 25 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: on it, and sometimes you know, sugar with a bit 26 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: of fat. 27 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: Sprinkled on it. But it's pretty much sugar. 28 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 3: Well then that explains the moods. 29 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: Okay, there you go. You're welcome. 30 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: Tip the medical super sleuth Homes of medicine is here. 31 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: But you only eat chocolate, don't you like? Isn't chocolate 32 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 2: you're mate? I mean not that not. That's Chocolate's the 33 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 2: high watermark for nutritional excellence. But do you that you 34 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 2: don't eat lollies and stuff? 35 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 4: Do you No, it's it's mainly Yeah, it's Chocolate's my friend. 36 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 5: It's lucky you pay your so much, Craig, because you 37 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 5: know the price of chocolate the way it's been you know, 38 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 5: it hasn't gone up like about you know, ten times 39 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 5: in the last year or something. 40 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 3: Also a super food. 41 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 4: I get to cling to the whole antioxidant story when 42 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 4: I choose. 43 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, they trot that one out, well, the chocolate companies 44 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 5: trot that one out about Easter every year. 45 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 3: It is a lot of rubbish. Of course, it's. 46 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: Full of antioxin and s David is. 47 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, just in behind all the sugar. Yeah, so 48 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 5: like standard milk, chocolate is I think about sixty percent 49 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 5: cocoa and the other forty percent of sugar. So you 50 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 5: know that's the bit they don't often mention. 51 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: Well, hi everyone, that's the food grinch here, David GALESI. 52 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 4: I was in a good mood again, but that's gone now, 53 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 4: did you know me? 54 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 3: I mean most people don't. 55 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 5: Most people don't like the taste of actual chocolate cocoa 56 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 5: because pure cocoa tastes like dirt. You know, if if 57 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 5: you want to be a chocoholic, you need a lot 58 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,839 Speaker 5: of sugar, which really makes you a sugar like I guess. 59 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: I've had the ninety percent? Is it the linked ninety 60 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: I've got a ya. It's pretty harsh. It's not much really, like. 61 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 5: Well, even then, even then, it's still ten percent sugar, 62 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 5: which is about the same as a. 63 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 2: Coke, all right, fucking grnch I know it. 64 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: Coke is way more than ten percent sugar, is there? 65 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 5: Ten percent? I mean the rest is border not cocoa 66 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 5: on fat and stuff, but it's still it's only ten 67 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 5: percent sugar. 68 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: We had a guy on if were you on the 69 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: show that we did with Jack the Bear Yeah, that's right. 70 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, I may I know we said 71 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 2: this on one other podcast. 72 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: I hope it wasn't with David. 73 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: But this guy that we interviewed recently, the X addict, 74 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: and he talks about that used to be addicted to 75 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: both cocaine and coca cola, and he used to have 76 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 2: eight liters of coca cola a day. 77 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 5: Geez, eight lids, So ten percent sugar. That's you know, 78 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 5: eight hundred grams of sugar. He's the better part of 79 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 5: a kilo of sugar a day. That's a significant around. 80 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: That's a lot of sugar. That's a lot of sugar. 81 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: Now in tea spoons, that's that's like four hundred there's 82 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: four yeah, four grams, four grams per teaspoons, So eight 83 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: hundred is what two hundred teaspoons, two hundred teaspoons of sugar. Yeah, Tiff. 84 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: What you can't see here, everybody, is that Tiff has 85 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: a stand up banner of the U Project in her 86 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: home studio, which sits usually sits relatively erect behind her. 87 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: Why did I say it like that. 88 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 5: I didn't mean it anything for the ratings, I guess, Craig. 89 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: I mean, but she also has this cat that at 90 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 2: five point thirty nine on a Thursday night, there it is. 91 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: Can you explain to David what's happening, Tell her that 92 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: you don't have a tell him that you don't have 93 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: a poltergeist in the house. 94 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 4: I've got a cat that knows that it's close to 95 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 4: dinner time and she doesn't like me be on the 96 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 4: podcast around so trying to push the banner over. 97 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 3: I've try to sabotage it. 98 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 4: I've got kettlebells on the bottom of the banner so 99 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 4: that she can't fully push it over. But she's having 100 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 4: a crack. 101 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 3: There shall be up obscuring the camera soon. 102 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: Now. You've been doing some research, as you always are. 103 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: You're always opening new doors and taking a wander and 104 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 2: then reporting back to home based home basementing the new project, 105 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: of course, and I know you do it all for us. 106 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: Thanks. Yeah, you've been opening. 107 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: The door on the pill, the contraceptive pill. Why are 108 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 2: you doing that? What motivated you do to do that, 109 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 2: and what are you learning? 110 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,679 Speaker 5: The pill has always interested me a little bit because 111 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 5: it's an it's a medication that is essentially all hormone 112 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 5: and we've seen quite happy to dose half the population 113 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:07,679 Speaker 5: up on this stuff without really concerning ourselves too much 114 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 5: about what it does. I mean, we're really concerned about 115 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 5: the benefit, which is that it stops people having babies, 116 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 5: and there's no doubt that it does that, but it 117 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 5: does a lot of other things too, And there's been 118 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 5: some really concerning research that started to appear particularly relevant 119 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 5: at the moment given that we've got extreme increases in 120 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 5: anxiety and depression, particularly in teenage females. And this research 121 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 5: is saying book people on the pill or women on 122 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 5: the pill, are twice as likely as women not on 123 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 5: the pill to be depressed and anxious, and if they 124 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 5: are in using those long term one So there's two 125 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 5: ways of taking these hormones. You can either do it 126 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 5: with the daily pill or you can do it with 127 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 5: the long term implants, and those ones increase the risk 128 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 5: by three times. Now to me, that's something that should 129 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 5: be headline news. That's not something that you should be 130 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 5: reading in the fine print on the back of a packet, 131 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 5: particularly when you're dealing with teenage girls, who are the 132 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 5: most at risk population for anxiety and depression. So of 133 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 5: all humans, the ones most likely to be dangerously anxious 134 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 5: and depressed the most likely to self harm as a 135 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 5: result of that are teenage girls, and yet those are 136 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 5: exactly the people that we are dispensing the pill to. 137 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 5: And the really interesting thing about that is it's a 138 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 5: bit of a paradox, because never have teenage girls had 139 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 5: less sex than they are now, so less need for 140 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 5: birth control than they have now, because the reality is 141 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 5: that the modern teenager barely leaves her bedroom. All of 142 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 5: the entertainment is there, the social media, the interactions with 143 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 5: their peers, etc. And as a result of that, the 144 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 5: rate of teenage pregnancy, the rate of teenage sex have 145 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 5: never been lower. We thought, well, when I say, those 146 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 5: who concerned themselves with such things, thought we were going 147 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 5: to be in for an epidemic by now of teenage 148 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 5: sex and underage pregnancy and so on in the United States. 149 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 5: And it was certainly looking that way. If you looked 150 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 5: at the first ten years of this century, the stats 151 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 5: for that were going out of control. There were just 152 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 5: exponential increases in those things. And then about twenty ten 153 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 5: it just reversed direction in an unimaginable way. It just 154 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 5: went off a cliff. And now, as I said, a 155 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 5: teenage girl now is about half as likely to indulge 156 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 5: in underage sex as her mother might have been. 157 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 3: So it's. 158 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 5: And the only explanation that to me makes any sense 159 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 5: is that in twenty ten we introduced a means of 160 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 5: receiving dopamine that didn't involve dangerous interactions with other humans, 161 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 5: and that was we gave everybody a dopamine delivery device 162 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 5: and put it in their pocket called an IPOWD or 163 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 5: a phone. 164 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 2: So and also, I guess sorry to interrupt, but also 165 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: I mean, which is kind of saying the same thing, 166 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: but the amounts of you know, physical, real world, three 167 00:09:55,120 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 2: dimensional interactions have probably plummeted because people are meeting each 168 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: other in the virtual world, not the physical world. And 169 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: so apart from the dopamine hit that they can get 170 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 2: via their phone or iPad, there's. 171 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: Also the practical reality that. 172 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 2: They're just not around each other in a physical three 173 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: dimensional sense anymore. 174 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 5: As much, Yeah, you don't need much birth control if 175 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 5: your sex involves sexting or texting. I guess, so the 176 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 5: birth control is built in. We might come back and 177 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 5: talk about dating apps, either in this show or at 178 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 5: another one. But the interesting paradox, and I said it 179 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 5: was a paradox, is that never before have teenage girls 180 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 5: been as likely to be on the pill, So we 181 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 5: have more girls on the pill and less need for 182 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 5: them to be on the pill if you put the 183 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 5: need down as not having babies. So why And that's 184 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 5: the interesting question you asked me at the right at 185 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 5: the top, is why are you looking at this? 186 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 3: Well? 187 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 5: I always like to see things that don't make sense 188 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 5: and see if I can understand why we're seeing the 189 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 5: things that don't make sense. So we've got two things 190 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 5: going in opposite directions that should be going in the 191 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 5: same direction, which is people having less sex should mean 192 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 5: less birth control being needed. But they're going in opposite directions. 193 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 5: And that's because it turns out, why do you think 194 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 5: it is? Craig, what's your theory? 195 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 2: I haven't given a lot of thought, and before anyone 196 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 2: sends me an email question without notice, I would think 197 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: that some kind of to regulate I don't know, regularity 198 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 2: of periods, or some mood or emotional stabilizer or I 199 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 2: don't know. 200 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: I'm guessing. 201 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 5: Let's ask someone who's got more relevant open. 202 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: Let's ask someone for whom, Yeah, why do you think 203 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: it is? 204 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 3: Tiff Well? 205 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 4: Back in the day, my answer for why I started 206 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 4: taking it was just what Craig said then. It was 207 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 4: to have regularity and over my cycle. But I would 208 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 4: wonder if parents and kids are communicating, if parents are 209 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 4: actually aware that, or they're just being more precaution, taking 210 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 4: more precautions and putting their children on it because they 211 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 4: don't feel like they really have control or good communication 212 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 4: and understanding that what their kids are up to. 213 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 5: It's partly that what you said there about parents not knowing, 214 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 5: so it's partly that, But it's also that the motivation 215 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 5: isn't birth control, and it's not mood regulation either, So 216 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 5: of the other potential motivations for putting someone on the pill, 217 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 5: what do you think it is? 218 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: Come you've helped us out. 219 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 2: You know, I'm already scared that two blokes are having 220 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 2: a conversation about this. 221 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: For God's sake, Tiff, can you please get involved. 222 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 5: I'm like, the answer, by the way, is something that 223 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 5: a bloke could give quite safely. 224 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 4: I feel like I should know the answer, but I'm 225 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 4: coming up blank because of the place. 226 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: A millionaire. 227 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 2: Can I guess and say that it's because for whatever 228 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 2: reason doctors are recommending it. 229 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 5: No, well they are, but they're being asked for it, right, 230 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 5: And what they're being asked for is a solution to acne. 231 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: Really, Yes, Yeah, that wasn't even that wasn't even my 232 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: cognitive orbit. 233 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 234 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 5: So it turns out the pill is actually quite effective 235 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 5: against acney, and doctors have known this for a while obviously, 236 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 5: but the demand for it is significantly increasing, and that 237 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 5: kind of matches the story of what we're talking about before, 238 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 5: which is if your only interaction with others is your 239 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 5: face on a screen, then acne starts to be a 240 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 5: real problem, and perhaps less more of a problem than 241 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 5: it might be in real life when people can see 242 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 5: a lot more of you than your face. And the 243 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 5: interesting thing about that is that there so the obvious 244 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 5: question that you might ask is, well, is there more acne? 245 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: You know? 246 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 3: Is that what's driving this? There are a lot. 247 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 5: More people having acne? And the answer is no, not really, 248 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 5: there's Acne affects about eighty five percent of people to 249 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 5: varying degrees between the ages of fifteen and nineteen, and 250 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 5: for most of them it goes away. So for almost 251 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 5: all of them, you know, we've probably all experienced something 252 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 5: like it at some point during our lives, and it 253 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 5: goes away, and it's caused by testosterone. So yes, even 254 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 5: in girls, it's mostly caused by testosterone because there are 255 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 5: peaks in testosterone during puberty. But the problem is that 256 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 5: now doctors are prepared to solve it using the pill, 257 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 5: and people are demanding that it be solved using the pill. Yeah, 258 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 5: I see, I told you that cat is moving in 259 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 5: now it's it's moving across the screen. It's determined to 260 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 5: get its dinner and get tip off the radio wireless. 261 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, welcome back to the wireless. It's doctor Gillespie 262 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: that that cat is going to be sitting on your 263 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: head in a moment. 264 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 5: So getting back to it then, So what we've got 265 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 5: is suddenly a lot of people taking the pill to 266 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 5: deal with acne. And the interesting thing is that when 267 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 5: you look at the evidence on acne treatment with the pill, 268 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 5: it is effective to a degree, but not as effective 269 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 5: as people like to think it is. And that's now 270 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 5: sort of upscaling the medication thing. And we can have 271 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 5: a whole show on acne if you want at some point. 272 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 5: But there's now what would have in the past, as 273 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 5: recently as ten years ago, been regarded as quite dangerous 274 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 5: treatments vitamin A treatments for acne, and medications that previously 275 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 5: would have been very reluctantly prescribed except in the worst 276 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 5: possible scenarios by doctors, which are now being prescribed much 277 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 5: more freely as well. So acne has become a problem 278 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 5: not because there's more acne, not because there's more nineteen 279 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 5: year olds, but because there's more people who seem to 280 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 5: care about it and who want a medication as a 281 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 5: solution to it. So I'm theorizing here that having more 282 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 5: of your social life concerned with your face filling a 283 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 5: screen on somebody else's screen probably means you focus more 284 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 5: on things like acne than perhaps a teenager who was 285 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 5: interacting in real life did maybe ten years ago. 286 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: Wow. 287 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 5: So that's all well and good, But you know, all right, 288 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 5: so what what if people are you know, more girls 289 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 5: are taking the pill? 290 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: Who cares? What's the downside? 291 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 5: What's the downside of that? Well, there's the one I 292 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 5: mentioned at the start, which is that it doubles the 293 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 5: rate of depression and anxiety in teenage girls, which to 294 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 5: me is a pretty big downside. But there's another one 295 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 5: which is probably right up there, and this one, and 296 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 5: I won't give you an exam on this one. 297 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 3: No, why not? What do you think think it is. 298 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 2: So other than depression and anxiety to feel free to 299 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: chime in. I feel like you're more qualified than me 300 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 2: in this episode tonight depression and anxiety weight game. 301 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 5: No, no, no, this is bigger and nastier than weight gain. 302 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: Okay, well, it's going to be a cancer ovarian cancer. 303 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 5: No, well, not that we know of, but you know, 304 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 5: stay tuned on that one. But no, that's not the one. 305 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 5: It's the fact that the pill hides something so frequently 306 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 5: what's happening with teenage girls is there's some of them 307 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 5: that are going on for the acne, and there's another 308 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 5: large group who are going on it also not for 309 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 5: birth control, but for something else, which is the thing 310 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 5: that Tiff said before, which is to control the regularity 311 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 5: of their periods. 312 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 3: But also but also to who make them less of 313 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 3: a problem. 314 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 5: So painful periods are a significant problem, you know, excessive bleeding, etc. 315 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 5: And the medical profession knows that if you put a 316 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 5: girl on the pill, it often addresses that so introduces regularity, 317 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 5: makes them less painful and in general, I guess more 318 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 5: normal if you could say it that way, and The 319 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 5: problem is that frequently at the start of puberty, periods 320 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 5: can be very rough in that sense and be worse 321 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 5: than they might otherwise settle down to be. But when 322 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 5: teenage girls encounter that, often the first answer is, well, 323 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 5: you know, their gp will say, well, you know, there's 324 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 5: something we can do about this. You know, we could 325 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 5: just put her on the pill and that might calm 326 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 5: everything down and sort everything out, and it often does, 327 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 5: and you might say, well, so, what's wrong with that? 328 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 3: Sounds like a plus? 329 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 5: It is unless there was an underlying cause for the problems, 330 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 5: And what we're seeing is significant growth in the incidence 331 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 5: of endometriosis. So endometriosis is a tissue from inside the 332 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 5: uterus growing outside the uterus and growing abnormally, so it's 333 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 5: not cancer, but it is abnormal growth of that tissue 334 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 5: outside the uterus. It ultimately can lead to scarring of 335 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 5: the uterus and an inability to reproduce. The problem is 336 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 5: that the pill often masks the early symptoms of endometriosis 337 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 5: and means that there are no symptoms really until you 338 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 5: stop taking the pill. Now, often a woman stops taking 339 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 5: the pill when she first thinks about having children, and 340 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 5: frequently now that's in their early thirties. 341 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 3: So what's happening now. 342 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 5: By the way, the average birth weight and an Australian 343 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 5: woman birthweight, average birth date, first birth child of an 344 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 5: Australian woman has rapidly accelerated from a sort of low 345 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 5: twenties about forty years ago to now about thirty three 346 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 5: is the average age of first childbirth. So you've now 347 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 5: got women sort of in the early thirties coming off 348 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 5: the pill for the first time, not realizing that the 349 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 5: pill had been masking the symptoms of endometriosis. So that's 350 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 5: a bit of a problem because suddenly you've got at 351 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 5: a time where the damage might already have been done, 352 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 5: so that the scarring might have been so significant because 353 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 5: of the endometriosis that they're actually not able to have 354 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 5: children by then. So that's a big downside too. And 355 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 5: I guess the point of all of this is this 356 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 5: is not a sugar pill. This is a significant hormonal drug. 357 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 5: It has real measurable consequences, and yet it's being dispensed. 358 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 5: I mean, I guess right at the beginning, I mean, 359 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 5: you obviously would know the story of Margaret saying the 360 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 5: lady who who funded the invention of the pill. So yeah, 361 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 5: but for that, you know, an tiff or not too. 362 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 5: But but you know there might be one or two 363 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 5: of your listeners who aren't quite across it. 364 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: You've stopped being a condescending prec can you stop that? 365 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 3: Ah? 366 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 5: Now, I'm sure I've told you this before, Curt Greg 367 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 5: Were you not taking notes? 368 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. 369 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 2: Maybe you did, maybe you did, all right, No, but 370 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 2: I am interested in the story, whether or not first 371 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 2: or I'll tell you what and if there's a third time, 372 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 2: I'll definitely know it. 373 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 3: Good. 374 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 5: Right, So Maris Anger, she was very very strongly against 375 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 5: the idea that women had no control over their ability 376 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 5: to reproduce. So in the early part of the twentieth 377 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 5: century in the United States, women had no control. So 378 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 5: you know, once I was married, they were producing kids, 379 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 5: and so you get families of eight, nine, ten, twelve kids, 380 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 5: very very commonly and effectively making the wife a slave 381 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 5: to the house and to the reproduction. She really campaigned 382 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 5: against that and said women need to have reproductive control. 383 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 5: And eventually, you know, by the nineteen sixties had become 384 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 5: famous enough and wealthy enough to fund the development of 385 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 5: she discovered some work being done in the nineteen forties 386 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 5: and nineteen fifties by some chemists who felt that they 387 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 5: had the solution in this pill, which was essentially giving 388 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 5: a woman progesterone, a n estrogen that mimicked the way 389 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 5: it was when a woman was pregnant, and tricking the 390 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 5: brain into thinking that the woman was pregnant the entire time, 391 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 5: because obviously, when you're pregnant, you can't have another baby, 392 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 5: and so that's the theory, and it works, and so 393 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 5: she funded that, and the reason she funded that, and 394 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 5: the reason she was so keen on it was to 395 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 5: give women the choice about whether they were pregnant. And 396 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 5: so admirable aims in creating this thing in the first place. 397 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 5: But we've got to keep looking at the science on 398 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 5: this stuff and say, okay, well, if the primary purpose 399 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 5: for giving teenage girls now is not birth control and 400 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 5: is something else entirely and may well just be cosmetic, 401 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 5: as it is in more than a quarter of cases, 402 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 5: then does it justify the serious downsides that are now 403 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 5: becoming apparent, which is significant increases in anxiety and depression 404 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 5: at a time when we are already experiencing the worst 405 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 5: epidemic of anxiety and depression in teenage girls. Ever, to 406 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 5: be adding into that something that we know produces that 407 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 5: result and magnifies it, to me is irresponsible. 408 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 409 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, So that's pretty amazing really that I didn't realize 410 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 6: that there were so many people taking it for a 411 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 6: purpose other than birth control. 412 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 5: In fact, birth control is not the major purpose for 413 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 5: teenage girls. So it's it's now got to the point 414 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 5: where the things that the pill that you know, Margaret saying, 415 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 5: I wouldn't have even been aware of the benefits of it, 416 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 5: if you like, in acne control and so on, are 417 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 5: actually a secondary consideration. Well, they're the primary consideration, and 418 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 5: the birth control aspects are a secondary consideration. And as 419 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 5: I said before, we're out of time when it's the 420 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 5: least needed aspect of the product in that many of 421 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 5: the girls taking it are not a risk of pregnancy anyway. 422 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 3: Mmmm. Wow. 423 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: Wow, That's something that I'd never pondered. But it makes 424 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 1: like when you think and then you put. 425 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 2: That on top of what we know, you know, the 426 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 2: potential mental health ramifications of social media and bullying, and 427 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 2: then you chuck birth control peeled into the mix with 428 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,959 Speaker 2: teenage girls, it's a recipe for disaster. 429 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 5: Well, it's petrol on the fire. You don't need to 430 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 5: be adding something. You know, We've already got a really 431 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 5: volatile mix of things which will cause serious mental health problems, 432 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 5: and we can see that in the you know, the 433 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 5: serious acceleration in mental health statistics. But to be throwing 434 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 5: into that mix something that we know doubles the incidence 435 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 5: of those things or triples it, depending on how it's 436 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 5: being administered to me, is something that needs to be 437 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 5: brought out. 438 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. I wonder if chat GPT knows this, this 439 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: could best? 440 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 3: Why don't you ask it? 441 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 2: I'm going to ask chat GPT right now on air. 442 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 2: We might have to take this out tip on, hey on, 443 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 2: Is the birth control pill associated with anxiety and or depression? 444 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 7: Yes, Some studies have suggested that hormonal birth control, including 445 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 7: the pill, can be associated with mood changes, anxiety, and 446 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 7: depression and some individuals. However, the response to hormonal birth 447 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 7: control can vary widely from person to person. Some people 448 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 7: experience no changes in mood, while others might notice improvements 449 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 7: or worsening of anxiety and depression symptoms. It's always a 450 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 7: good idea to discuss any concerns with a healthcare provider 451 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 7: as they can help find the most suitable option based 452 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 7: on individual health needs and experiences. 453 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: Do you know who that dude? Sounds like? Tif? Like 454 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: Tim Ferris? Have you heard Tim Ferris? Listen there exactly. 455 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 2: I know I'm digressing, but did you see that thing? 456 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 2: I know you're a tech head dived and I'm sorry 457 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 2: to do a left. 458 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: Turn for the minute. 459 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 3: No worse. 460 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 2: Did you see the news last night about Scarlett Johansen 461 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 2: and how they've ripped off I mean, they've ripped off 462 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 2: her voice, one of the one of. 463 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 5: The well that's what she says, you know. Yet to 464 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 5: be determined in a court of law, of course. 465 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 2: But if you if you listen to the AI voice 466 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 2: in hers, it's pretty much identical. But also they approached 467 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 2: her twice to use her voice and she knocked them 468 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 2: back twice. 469 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 470 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 5: Have you actually seen the movie that where she does 471 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 5: where she is that voice? 472 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: No, but I did. I have not seen that movie, 473 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: but it is. It is. 474 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 2: Sorry, it's a pretty off the birth control conversation with 475 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 2: somewhere else now, but fuck it, that's how we roll 476 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 2: you go on. 477 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 3: It's a pretty weird movie. 478 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 5: It's a Spike Jones movie from twenty thirteen called Her, 479 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 5: and it's about a guy who has a romantic relationship 480 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 5: with what he calls his operating system. Because this is 481 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 5: pre AI, they didn't know to call it AI and yeah, 482 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 5: basically has and she voices it. And a lot of 483 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 5: the stuff that you hear from those chat GPT demos 484 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,479 Speaker 5: sounds an awful lot like things that were said in 485 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 5: that movie. The way she laughs, the way she sort 486 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 5: of jokes with him, and you know, if you've watched 487 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 5: those demo things, particularly when they were using that voice, 488 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 5: you could become seriously convinced that it was based on 489 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 5: that movie. And I guess that's aided a little bit 490 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 5: by the fact that, you know, the founder of open 491 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 5: Ai tweeted on the thirteenth of May a one word 492 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 5: tweet that said her, which is of course the name 493 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 5: of the movie. 494 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 3: Wow. 495 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 2: Speaking of such movies, I think twenty sixteen, maybe seventeen sixteen, 496 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 2: I think X Markina Have you said that? 497 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: Yes? 498 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, although I don't pronounce it as poshly as you. 499 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 5: It's an ex machiner to me, I would have thought, but. 500 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: That's because you're a bogan and on pretty that's right. 501 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Don't. 502 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: Forget Your Place. 503 00:30:58,640 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 3: Well, I like that movie. 504 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 5: I really like that movie, and I think we're not 505 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 5: an awful long way from that. The interesting thing about 506 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 5: her movie is that in the end, the AI basically 507 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 5: I hope no spoiler alert everybody, but. 508 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: The AI is in your ears everyone, if you don't 509 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: want to know. 510 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 5: If you're planning to go and watch this movie, the 511 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 5: AI revealed that while she's been in love with him 512 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 5: the whole time and a very very strong bonding relationship 513 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 5: and that's what the movie's about, at the end, she 514 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 5: says that she's also simultaneously in love with six hundred 515 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 5: and forty one other people because she's obviously communicating with 516 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 5: so many people at the same time. 517 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: Well, that's disappointing for him. But you know what, here's 518 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: a funny thing. 519 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 2: Like if he didn't know, Like if he believed she 520 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 2: was in love and he was in love and he 521 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 2: didn't know about the other six hundred and forty one, 522 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 2: I wonder if he'd be happy and connected and emotionally 523 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 2: kind of sound. But then when he gets a new 524 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 2: piece of information, you're one of one hundred, one of. 525 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 3: Six four two. 526 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it. 527 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 5: Well, another spoiler alert, he actually gets over it and 528 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 5: accepts that she loves him, even though she's also in 529 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 5: love with these other six hundred and forty one people 530 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 5: and simultaneously communicating with about eight thousand others every time 531 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 5: she's speaking to him. 532 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: Oh, that is so interesting. 533 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 2: And if you want to know how to spell the 534 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 2: movie that David and I pronounced differently, I pronounce it correctly. 535 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 2: It's e x M A C H I NA as 536 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 2: David calls it x machine. That's the Australian pronunciation. We'll 537 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 2: say goodbye affair. But that was a pot pirie of 538 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 2: multi directional conversation. 539 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: Thank you, no. 540 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 3: Worries, see later. And look the cats looking happy. It 541 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 3: knows it's dinner time. 542 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: It's dinner time.