1 00:00:04,050 --> 00:00:06,480 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,660 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. The local share market has been traveling pretty well 3 00:00:09,660 --> 00:00:13,740 Sean Aylmer: this year with predictions that Australian shares could well outperform 4 00:00:14,010 --> 00:00:16,290 Sean Aylmer: other markets for the rest of the year. So what 5 00:00:16,290 --> 00:00:19,350 Sean Aylmer: are investors trading so far? Have any of the trends 6 00:00:19,350 --> 00:00:24,570 Sean Aylmer: from 2022 continued into '23? Remember, this is general information 7 00:00:24,570 --> 00:00:27,690 Sean Aylmer: only. You should seek professional advice before making any investment 8 00:00:27,690 --> 00:00:31,650 Sean Aylmer: decisions. Cath Whitaker is the Chief Executive of ASX listed 9 00:00:31,650 --> 00:00:35,160 Sean Aylmer: trading platform, Self Wealth. Cath, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 10 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:37,860 Cath Whitaker: Thank you again for having me, Sean. Great to be here. 11 00:00:38,670 --> 00:00:41,640 Sean Aylmer: Okay, we had a quick chat before we came on. 12 00:00:41,790 --> 00:00:45,479 Sean Aylmer: It is quite incredible what people are buying. Now, just 13 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:47,790 Sean Aylmer: firstly, when we're talking about people here, we're talking about 14 00:00:47,790 --> 00:00:49,320 Sean Aylmer: retail investors. Is that correct? 15 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:55,830 Cath Whitaker: We are. So our platform is 95% retail investors. And look, 16 00:00:55,830 --> 00:00:59,010 Cath Whitaker: the numbers are in, Sean. There's no disputing the trend 17 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,810 Cath Whitaker: that has happened in January. And in a headline, spoiler 18 00:01:03,810 --> 00:01:07,350 Cath Whitaker: alert, it's all about lithium and coal. 19 00:01:07,950 --> 00:01:12,690 Sean Aylmer: Wow, amazing. Well, let's go to lithium first. So the 20 00:01:12,690 --> 00:01:15,330 Sean Aylmer: number one is Pilbara Minerals. 21 00:01:15,390 --> 00:01:16,020 Cath Whitaker: Yes. 22 00:01:16,380 --> 00:01:17,850 Sean Aylmer: What other ones are in the top 10? 23 00:01:18,300 --> 00:01:22,230 Cath Whitaker: Sure. We've got some Core Lithium. We have Lake Resources. 24 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:30,990 Cath Whitaker: We have Liontown. And it's all about we know Australia supplies 50% of global lithium across the 25 00:01:30,990 --> 00:01:34,560 Cath Whitaker: world. Folks see what is happening still in the EV 26 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,619 Cath Whitaker: space. We'll get on to Tesla maybe a little bit 27 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:42,630 Cath Whitaker: further on, but there's obviously a ongoing demand for lithium, 28 00:01:42,630 --> 00:01:46,020 Cath Whitaker: and so people are well and truly investing into these 29 00:01:46,020 --> 00:01:49,260 Cath Whitaker: specific stocks anticipating a great return. 30 00:01:49,620 --> 00:01:53,940 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So lithium's hot. You also mentioned coal companies a 31 00:01:53,940 --> 00:01:56,460 Sean Aylmer: moment ago, notwithstanding the... Well, the price of coal has 32 00:01:56,460 --> 00:01:59,220 Sean Aylmer: come off big time, but it was very high until 33 00:01:59,220 --> 00:02:01,740 Sean Aylmer: just a few weeks ago. Whitehaven Coal, once again, a 34 00:02:01,740 --> 00:02:02,490 Sean Aylmer: popular stock? 35 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,270 Cath Whitaker: That certainly is, and we see it across our top 36 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,560 Cath Whitaker: 20 as well. There's more and more coal stocks that 37 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,700 Cath Whitaker: are coming into play. Yancoal actually building out our number 38 00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:17,940 Cath Whitaker: 20 spot, which is a first time entrant for us. 39 00:02:18,389 --> 00:02:22,290 Cath Whitaker: So as you say, when you look at energy performance, 40 00:02:22,290 --> 00:02:27,600 Cath Whitaker: certainly across 2022, it really was the star performer from 41 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,980 Cath Whitaker: an ASX perspective. And although the coal price has dropped 42 00:02:31,980 --> 00:02:35,760 Cath Whitaker: off in recent times, folk are obviously anticipating it will 43 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,209 Cath Whitaker: come back. There is a need. And so again, looking 44 00:02:39,210 --> 00:02:42,240 Cath Whitaker: for ways to get the most out the investment dollars, 45 00:02:42,330 --> 00:02:44,700 Cath Whitaker: people see coal as an excellent choice. 46 00:02:44,910 --> 00:02:49,230 Sean Aylmer: Okay. What about the large caps? So many of us 47 00:02:49,230 --> 00:02:52,200 Sean Aylmer: would invest in large caps only because they're household names 48 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,929 Sean Aylmer: as much as anything. If you look at the top 49 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,169 Sean Aylmer: 10, and we're going to just park Tesla for a 50 00:02:58,169 --> 00:03:00,960 Sean Aylmer: moment, we'll come back to that. So BHP, obviously Australia's 51 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:06,150 Sean Aylmer: biggest company, Fortescue Metals, and ANZ, but it's only three of the top 52 00:03:06,150 --> 00:03:08,130 Sean Aylmer: 10 are actually very large caps. 53 00:03:08,460 --> 00:03:13,500 Cath Whitaker: That's exactly right. And we're looking at the traded numbers 54 00:03:13,500 --> 00:03:16,590 Cath Whitaker: here. So rather than what I'd say is stocks in 55 00:03:16,590 --> 00:03:18,631 Cath Whitaker: terms of total value on the platform, of course- 56 00:03:18,631 --> 00:03:19,170 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, yeah. 57 00:03:19,230 --> 00:03:23,430 Cath Whitaker: You know. So the big caps, the Commonwealth, the Westpacs, et cetera, 58 00:03:23,430 --> 00:03:26,639 Cath Whitaker: they're still ranked very highly in terms of total value 59 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,429 Cath Whitaker: of the platform. And look, on the Self Wealth platform, 60 00:03:30,180 --> 00:03:33,600 Cath Whitaker: we're now getting very close to 9 billion dollars worth 61 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,870 Cath Whitaker: of asset value on our platform. But as you say, 62 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,170 Cath Whitaker: in the month of January, it is those three stocks, 63 00:03:41,460 --> 00:03:46,020 Cath Whitaker: BHP, ANZ, and Tesla and Fortescue, that have really rounded 64 00:03:46,020 --> 00:03:48,000 Cath Whitaker: out the most traded values. 65 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,250 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So I mean, of course we're trading here, so 66 00:03:50,250 --> 00:03:52,950 Sean Aylmer: it's buying and selling, so people are coming in and 67 00:03:52,950 --> 00:03:55,740 Sean Aylmer: out of it. What about Tesla? Because that certainly came 68 00:03:55,740 --> 00:03:57,510 Sean Aylmer: off the boil at one point last year, but it 69 00:03:57,510 --> 00:03:58,350 Sean Aylmer: seems to be back. 70 00:03:58,890 --> 00:04:01,560 Cath Whitaker: It certainly is. And look, I think a certain share 71 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:06,030 Cath Whitaker: price jumping from 100 dollars to 190 last time I 72 00:04:06,030 --> 00:04:11,280 Cath Whitaker: looked certainly helps. And it certainly has shot up, jumped 73 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,460 Cath Whitaker: up nine spots on our ranking in terms of most 74 00:04:14,460 --> 00:04:19,320 Cath Whitaker: traded stocks. And I think, again, getting past all the 75 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,080 Cath Whitaker: hype and Elon Musk and the Twitterati- 76 00:04:22,410 --> 00:04:24,690 Sean Aylmer: Oh, Cath, Cath, you can't get past the hype of 77 00:04:24,690 --> 00:04:25,409 Sean Aylmer: Elon Musk. 78 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,669 Cath Whitaker: No, you cannot. You cannot. I think he does that 79 00:04:29,670 --> 00:04:34,560 Cath Whitaker: extremely well. But people still see obviously a growth market 80 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,330 Cath Whitaker: that is occurring there in terms of EV, and they're still 81 00:04:39,330 --> 00:04:43,890 Cath Whitaker: so dominant within that segment, and so people have rewarded that. 82 00:04:44,670 --> 00:04:47,430 Sean Aylmer: Why is it something like Tesla is so much bigger 83 00:04:47,430 --> 00:04:52,979 Sean Aylmer: than let's say Apple, which is probably even a better known company and people use Apple 84 00:04:52,980 --> 00:04:55,560 Sean Aylmer: all the time, or Apple products all the time. It 85 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,659 Sean Aylmer: just sort of interests me. I suppose it's buying and 86 00:04:57,660 --> 00:05:00,060 Sean Aylmer: selling, I've got to keep reminding myself of that. It's 87 00:05:00,060 --> 00:05:02,940 Sean Aylmer: not just buying. But it kind of like, I don't 88 00:05:02,940 --> 00:05:05,790 Sean Aylmer: know, it's just like Tesla grabs the imagination more. Is 89 00:05:05,790 --> 00:05:07,200 Sean Aylmer: it the future? What is it? 90 00:05:07,260 --> 00:05:10,560 Cath Whitaker: Yeah. Look, I think it's very much about the future. 91 00:05:10,740 --> 00:05:15,450 Cath Whitaker: So the point around all of the FAANG stocks. And look, 92 00:05:15,450 --> 00:05:18,990 Cath Whitaker: by the way, we have seen in January much bigger 93 00:05:18,990 --> 00:05:24,570 Cath Whitaker: inflows of investment happening into the FAANGs, and tech in general 94 00:05:24,570 --> 00:05:27,330 Cath Whitaker: on the NASDAQ as we do also offer US equities. 95 00:05:27,779 --> 00:05:30,480 Cath Whitaker: But I think the story is that with Tesla, it 96 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,529 Cath Whitaker: is all about the future. And I think when we've 97 00:05:34,529 --> 00:05:38,940 Cath Whitaker: been looking certainly at our generational demographics that we see 98 00:05:38,940 --> 00:05:43,800 Cath Whitaker: on the platform, we've seen some really interesting observations in 99 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,299 Cath Whitaker: terms of what the Gen Zs are doing. Certainly a 100 00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:54,390 Cath Whitaker: much, much higher buy to sell ratios for twenty- something 101 00:05:54,390 --> 00:05:58,440 Cath Whitaker: year old women. It's still at 80% buy to sell. 102 00:05:58,890 --> 00:06:01,980 Cath Whitaker: Our cohort that actually has the highest buy to sell 103 00:06:01,980 --> 00:06:07,080 Cath Whitaker: ratio is 18 year old men at a whopping 88%. 104 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:10,681 Sean Aylmer: They've probably got nothing to sell though, Cath. 105 00:06:10,681 --> 00:06:14,580 Cath Whitaker: They're probably still building unless they've had a minor account 106 00:06:14,580 --> 00:06:16,049 Cath Whitaker: on our platform. You're very true. 107 00:06:16,050 --> 00:06:16,051 Sean Aylmer: Maybe, maybe. 108 00:06:16,051 --> 00:06:22,800 Cath Whitaker: But they're absolutely in the growth mode. And so they are looking for 109 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,950 Cath Whitaker: those stocks which I'm sure they see as having a 110 00:06:25,950 --> 00:06:28,440 Cath Whitaker: medium to long- term improvement. 111 00:06:28,890 --> 00:06:30,839 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me Cath, we'll be back in a minute. 112 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,719 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Cath Whitaker, Chief Executive of 113 00:06:39,750 --> 00:06:44,489 Sean Aylmer: ASX listed trading platform. Self Wealth. Are there stock, and 114 00:06:44,490 --> 00:06:48,210 Sean Aylmer: let's use Pilgrim Minerals, it's the top traded stock, is 115 00:06:48,210 --> 00:06:52,380 Sean Aylmer: that focused on a demographic, 18, 20 year old women? 116 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,470 Sean Aylmer: Or is it broadly... I mean to be number one, 117 00:06:55,470 --> 00:06:57,539 Sean Aylmer: you have to be fairly broadly based, I'd imagine. 118 00:06:57,900 --> 00:07:03,270 Cath Whitaker: Absolutely. And look, Pilbara is unique from a direct equities 119 00:07:03,270 --> 00:07:07,980 Cath Whitaker: perspective, given that we saw it was the most traded 120 00:07:07,980 --> 00:07:12,600 Cath Whitaker: stock across all of the four demographics that we use. 121 00:07:13,140 --> 00:07:16,230 Cath Whitaker: The only other type of asset that can claim that 122 00:07:16,230 --> 00:07:21,330 Cath Whitaker: same prize remains as Vanguard AS, so from an ETF 123 00:07:21,330 --> 00:07:25,650 Cath Whitaker: perspective, it too is popular across all four demographics, filling 124 00:07:25,650 --> 00:07:29,910 Cath Whitaker: out that number one position. But yeah, quite unique in 125 00:07:30,390 --> 00:07:33,840 Cath Whitaker: everyone seeing combined value associated with it. 126 00:07:34,470 --> 00:07:37,110 Sean Aylmer: The survey does actually show sort of, I don't know 127 00:07:37,110 --> 00:07:40,050 Sean Aylmer: they're quite anomalies, but interesting. So NEU, which I've got 128 00:07:40,050 --> 00:07:41,610 Sean Aylmer: to say I had to look up to see what NEU 129 00:07:43,050 --> 00:07:47,280 Sean Aylmer: is, and it's Neuren Pharmaceuticals, seems to have been sold 130 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,660 Sean Aylmer: a lot by baby boomers. Now maybe baby boomers are more interested in 131 00:07:51,660 --> 00:07:54,930 Sean Aylmer: pharma companies, but Neuren Pharmaceuticals is not a big company. 132 00:07:55,590 --> 00:07:59,070 Cath Whitaker: No, and look, it has been a real darling of 133 00:07:59,070 --> 00:08:03,120 Cath Whitaker: the Self Wealth cohort. And it is a terrific story 134 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,840 Cath Whitaker: to be told, Neuren Pharmaceuticals, in terms of not only 135 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,380 Cath Whitaker: the obvious in terms of doubling of share price in 136 00:08:10,380 --> 00:08:13,230 Cath Whitaker: the last year or so, but what it's doing in 137 00:08:13,230 --> 00:08:16,980 Cath Whitaker: terms of research and the inroads that it's made certainly 138 00:08:16,980 --> 00:08:21,900 Cath Whitaker: into the US. And I think those gains that have 139 00:08:21,900 --> 00:08:26,310 Cath Whitaker: been made on that stock, whilst who knows what may happen 140 00:08:26,310 --> 00:08:29,190 Cath Whitaker: next with the share price, but I think certainly a 141 00:08:29,190 --> 00:08:33,179 Cath Whitaker: cohort of people have been bought in quite early, realize 142 00:08:33,179 --> 00:08:36,420 Cath Whitaker: the gains, and may be reassessing their position. 143 00:08:37,140 --> 00:08:40,110 Sean Aylmer: How does buy now pay later stocks, how do they 144 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:45,479 Sean Aylmer: rank? We saw Openpay recently collapsed, and then Zip Co I think is in one of 145 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,490 Sean Aylmer: the top traded stocks. But where do they sit? Because 146 00:08:47,940 --> 00:08:52,620 Sean Aylmer: I think from memory previously, they were fairly highly traded companies. 147 00:08:52,860 --> 00:08:57,870 Cath Whitaker: They absolutely were. And look, looking at 2021 and then 148 00:08:57,870 --> 00:09:00,870 Cath Whitaker: when you compare it against '22, I mean that was 149 00:09:00,870 --> 00:09:05,429 Cath Whitaker: by far and large the most significant change is where 150 00:09:05,429 --> 00:09:09,780 Cath Whitaker: are the buy now pay later stocks. And Zip had 151 00:09:09,780 --> 00:09:12,809 Cath Whitaker: a bit of a flurry, I would describe it, in 152 00:09:12,809 --> 00:09:16,710 Cath Whitaker: January, as I think there were some indications in terms 153 00:09:16,710 --> 00:09:21,150 Cath Whitaker: of profitability, being visible in the US and people seeing it 154 00:09:21,210 --> 00:09:24,960 Cath Whitaker: as opportunistic in terms of perhaps there is a path 155 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:29,370 Cath Whitaker: here. However, I think who's to say what might happen 156 00:09:29,370 --> 00:09:33,750 Cath Whitaker: in February? But it's very much a watch this space 157 00:09:33,750 --> 00:09:36,270 Cath Whitaker: with that particular one. And as you quite rightly point 158 00:09:36,270 --> 00:09:43,530 Cath Whitaker: out with Openpay, unfortunate situation, but that whole segment is obviously under 159 00:09:43,530 --> 00:09:47,370 Cath Whitaker: a review at the moment, and so time will tell 160 00:09:47,370 --> 00:09:49,860 Cath Whitaker: in terms of where people see value or not. 161 00:09:50,460 --> 00:09:53,760 Sean Aylmer: What about ETFs? Who are interested in ETFs mostly? 162 00:09:54,450 --> 00:09:59,400 Cath Whitaker: Yeah. So again, so we see quite a lot of interest in 163 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:04,740 Cath Whitaker: ETFs across all of the demographics. Certainly more geared toward 164 00:10:04,740 --> 00:10:10,770 Cath Whitaker: the Gen Zs and the millennials. We see very dominant 165 00:10:10,770 --> 00:10:16,440 Cath Whitaker: position by Vanguard in terms of their exposures internationally as 166 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,679 Cath Whitaker: well as in Australia. But I think what's interesting in 167 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,429 Cath Whitaker: the January month is we did see more of a 168 00:10:23,429 --> 00:10:29,100 Cath Whitaker: sell than what we've seen in previous months with ETFs. 169 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:34,530 Cath Whitaker: And looking at the younger demographic, I really do suspect 170 00:10:34,530 --> 00:10:38,370 Cath Whitaker: that it's a case of the credit card bill always 171 00:10:38,370 --> 00:10:42,809 Cath Whitaker: comes in on the 20th of January, and perhaps people 172 00:10:42,809 --> 00:10:45,270 Cath Whitaker: just needing to free a little bit more cash than 173 00:10:45,270 --> 00:10:49,950 Cath Whitaker: normal. So again, very keen to watch that. But I 174 00:10:49,950 --> 00:10:53,280 Cath Whitaker: think in general with ETFs, there's also been quite recent 175 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:58,530 Cath Whitaker: media focus on is it the darlings that it's been 176 00:10:58,530 --> 00:11:01,350 Cath Whitaker: made out to be? And I think probably a lot 177 00:11:01,350 --> 00:11:05,250 Cath Whitaker: more recognition in terms of fees associated with ETFs. So 178 00:11:05,850 --> 00:11:08,699 Cath Whitaker: could well be a case of people are reassessing as 179 00:11:08,700 --> 00:11:12,329 Cath Whitaker: a bundled product and perhaps looking to go on a 180 00:11:12,330 --> 00:11:13,920 Cath Whitaker: more direct equities path. 181 00:11:14,429 --> 00:11:16,710 Sean Aylmer: Cath Whitaker from Self Wealth. Before I let you go, 182 00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:19,020 Sean Aylmer: there's a couple of little quirks which I think are 183 00:11:19,020 --> 00:11:23,550 Sean Aylmer: really fascinating. You've got nearly 130,000 active members, and 70 184 00:11:23,550 --> 00:11:26,100 Sean Aylmer: year old men are the most active. 185 00:11:26,790 --> 00:11:31,559 Cath Whitaker: They are indeed. They have been trading through particularly the second 186 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:36,750 Cath Whitaker: half of 2022. I think the Whitewater out there has 187 00:11:36,750 --> 00:11:41,550 Cath Whitaker: certainly benefited that demographic. And yeah, look, they're being opportunistic. 188 00:11:42,390 --> 00:11:45,570 Sean Aylmer: The other one is Western Australian. Western Australian women- 189 00:11:45,750 --> 00:11:46,290 Cath Whitaker: Yes. 190 00:11:46,290 --> 00:11:50,430 Sean Aylmer: Are a sophisticated demographic that are trading the most. 191 00:11:50,910 --> 00:11:54,390 Cath Whitaker: They are. So out of all of our, when you look at male, 192 00:11:54,390 --> 00:12:01,110 Cath Whitaker: female, and statewide demographics, absolutely they are the cohort that 193 00:12:01,110 --> 00:12:04,679 Cath Whitaker: is trading the most. And I love a bit of 194 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,329 Cath Whitaker: state rivalry. I mean who doesn't? 195 00:12:06,330 --> 00:12:09,120 Sean Aylmer: Oh, entirely. Yeah, absolutely. Where are you from, Cath? 196 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,449 Cath Whitaker: The greatest state, which of course is Queensland. 197 00:12:12,510 --> 00:12:17,459 Sean Aylmer: Ah. See, parochialism is really at its finest in Queensland, 198 00:12:17,460 --> 00:12:18,030 Sean Aylmer: I've got to say. 199 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:20,670 Cath Whitaker: God's country, they say, so yes. 200 00:12:20,670 --> 00:12:25,380 Sean Aylmer: Ah, yes. Yes. Okay, well, but Western Australian women at least have 201 00:12:25,380 --> 00:12:28,050 Sean Aylmer: it over Queensland men and women, and the rest of 202 00:12:28,050 --> 00:12:31,050 Sean Aylmer: the country in fact, at least in terms of trading. 203 00:12:32,130 --> 00:12:35,010 Cath Whitaker: This time I have to give the trophy to them, 204 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:36,600 Cath Whitaker: but let's look for next month. 205 00:12:36,870 --> 00:12:39,569 Sean Aylmer: Fair enough. Fantastic. Cath, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 206 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:40,650 Cath Whitaker: Thanks for having me. 207 00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:44,010 Sean Aylmer: That was Cath Whitaker, Chief Executive of ASX listed trading 208 00:12:44,010 --> 00:12:46,949 Sean Aylmer: platform, Self Wealth. This is the Fear and Greed daily 209 00:12:46,950 --> 00:12:49,620 Sean Aylmer: interview. Remember, this is general information only and you should 210 00:12:49,620 --> 00:12:53,700 Sean Aylmer: seek professional advice before making investment decisions. Join us every 211 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:55,740 Sean Aylmer: morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's 212 00:12:55,740 --> 00:12:59,130 Sean Aylmer: most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.