WEBVTT - Summer series: in conversation with David Campbell 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.600 Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About Mastella podcast. 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:13.000 I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and this year I have 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.079 had the privilege of sitting down with some of the 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.760 biggest names in the country. Because when Estralia's celebrities are 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.400 ready to talk, they come to Something to Talk About. 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.800 We're continuing to publish across the summer break and we'll 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.760 be back with a brand new episode on January twelfth. 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:30.600 In the meantime, each day for the next two weeks, 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.360 we'll be revisiting some of your favorite episodes from the 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:35.720 past year, and I'm happy to report that there have 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:38.800 been a lot of popular episodes, but out of the 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.960 fifty we released in twenty twenty four, we've narrowed it 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.920 down to ten conversations to revisit over the summer break, 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:48.760 and today you'll hear from David Campbell on the decision 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.880 that changed everything for him. David, who is of course 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:55.040 the son of Ozzie Rock legend Jimmy Barnes, join me 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.640 in the Something to Talk About studio to mark a 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:00.280 milestone ten years since he decided. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:00.920 To stop drinking. 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:04.320 At a time of year when many Australians are reconsidering 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:07.920 their relationship with alcohol and reflecting on their resolutions for 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:10.880 the coming year, we decided it was a perfect time 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:14.720 to revisit David's Canada about breaking the cycle of alcohol 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:18.640 addiction in his family and how his sobriety has impacted 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.520 his marriage. David Campbell, you and I have a lot 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.479 to talk about, but I want to start by going 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.600 back a long time ago, in a galaxy far away, 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.200 as Star Wars fans might say, you and I sat 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.759 alongside one another on a panel on the Today Show. 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:41.399 Kyle Stefanovic was hosting your co host today of Today Extra, 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:45.440 Sylvia Jeffries was a fellow panelist, and little old me 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.920 was sitting on the other side of you, And there 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.200 was a discussion where you revealed that you had given 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:53.920 up alcohol. 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:54.640 A year earlier. 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.400 I would want to unpack that moment with you in 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:02.080 a moment, but before we talk about that day in 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.440 April twenty fifteen, I'd actually like to go back twelve 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:09.480 months earlier, to April twenty fourteen, because we're about to 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:14.400 hit the ten year milestone where you decided to. 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.120 Give up alcohol. Yeah, what brought it on? 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.200 And when you made that choice, did you think it 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.040 was going to be permanent ten years on or was 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:27.120 it more of a short term let's just see what 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:27.880 I do here. 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:33.720 No, when it happened, it felt definitive. If going back 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.760 to that time, I was, you know, we'd had Leo 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.480 at Leasta night had Leo, and we were very much 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.680 conscious and aware. I know those sound very wanky terms, 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:46.520 but we were of like, how are we going to 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:48.320 raise our child? How are we going to do this? 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:50.560 You know, we both had you know, had our own 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.959 issues and traumas in our childhoods, but really wanted to 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:55.840 be the best parents we could be. And you know, 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:59.680 as to type a type people raising a child, you know, 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:04.360 we're really trying our best. And I'd been touring a lot, 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.519 and I'd always had, like with my relationship with alcohol 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:18.359 from my teens onwards was either problematic like binge or 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:24.000 abstaining completely. And so I would go through like years 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.480 and years and years of never drinking, and then I 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:28.680 would drink a lot, and then years and years years 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.120 not drinking again. So it was really coming and going. 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.840 And then at least when I got together, we had 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.280 a great time. We're having a wonderful you know start 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.360 to our marriage. We would drink a bit. We would celebrate, 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.320 and at the same time, I was having great success 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.560 with an album. So you would have midweek and they'd 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:48.120 be just champagne delivered to you. We'd be like, let 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:50.440 it be rude not to have champagne and so, and 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:52.400 then you'd go out in the road and you would 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:54.200 drink with your band, and then you would drink after 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.440 the show, because you're putting on late these parties in 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.320 every city you go to. And it mounted up and 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:01.680 mounted up, and I was putting on an awful amount 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:05.000 of weight. And I was because you eat recovery food 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.560 and you sleep longer and all the sort of stuff 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:09.680 that you know you shouldn't be doing, but you know 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.200 you're young, you don't have kids. So when Leo came along, 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:13.840 we're having kids. We were trying to clean up our 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:15.960 lives and be healthier and work out and do that 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.680 sort of stuff. And I was still touring, and I 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.159 was doing morning TV with Sonia, and I'd just got 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.800 that gig, and I was really mindful of like I 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.000 was getting better at it. I was very sweaty to 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.240 start with, as you remember, but I was getting I 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.520 think better at it. It takes a long time, and 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.160 I was still working and going on the road too, 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:37.560 and I had this feeling when I was on the 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:44.960 road of being bored with drinking. So my band would 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.000 drink and I would sit there and be like, I remember, 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:52.520 like going, okay, let's have a drink. And it was 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.440 this weight was starting to hit me with it, this 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:58.080 sort of feeling of like I have to do this, 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:00.920 this is what I should be doing, should be celebrating 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:02.479 with my band as opposed to do I want to 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:05.800 as before I know, my band and I partied and 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.360 had great times and got drunk and had played poker 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:10.840 all night. That was fun, but all of a sudden 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.520 it wasn't becoming fun anymore, and it was playing on 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:15.440 my mind. And I was listening to a lot of 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:17.920 podcasts at the time, and I was in therapy and 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:22.640 saying to my therapist, keeps coming up that I'm listening 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.680 to people who are sober and talking about their sobriety, 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:27.480 and she's like, well, we do you want to explore that? 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:28.839 I'm like, I don't know, I don't know if I 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.560 want to explore that, and then the story comes with 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:35.560 a lot of name dropping. So forgive me, but Dan 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.040 Akroid was in town and Lisa and I are deep nerds, 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:42.919 and he came on the show to promote Crystal Head vodka. 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:45.640 Now this isn't dan Acroid's fault. I need to preface this. 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.280 It's a great product. I'm not here to endorse it. 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:51.720 But if you do drink, it's lovely. But it's crystal 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:53.360 Head and it's a vodka, and it's like and it's 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:55.760 alien head looking jar And he came on and we 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.760 did some Blues Brothers songs on TV and he invited 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.520 me to his night with his fabulous wife, Donna, who 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.159 was inspired like us. So I was really moving irtie 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:08.600 out and he'd signed some bottles for us, and Lisa 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:10.039 and I had a great time, and we'd had some 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.200 VOD people with him, and blah blah blah. Got to 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:13.560 the end of that weekend, I was coming up to 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:15.920 my holidays. It was our first big family holiday. We 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.560 were going to Broom and Lisa and I were like, 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.680 should we on Friday night watch Ghostbusters have some Crystal 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.680 Head vodka. That seems like the tribute to Dan Akroyd 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.159 for the week Absolutely. Now, mind you, by this stage, 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.720 I did not have much to drink I don't know 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.320 what happened, or maybe I lost count, but I wasn't blackout, 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.680 drunk or anything like that. We went to bed relatively early, 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.039 felt good. I woke up the next morning, as I said, 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.520 nothing to do with the product, but my body was 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:49.080 rejecting it. And even for someone who drank as much 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.560 as me, I was going, Lisa's going, what's going on? 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.080 I'm like, I don't know. I can't stop being sick. 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:59.000 Excuse me your listeners for being that graphic. And so 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:01.400 can we delay the We can't delay the flight because 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:02.960 it's broom. What are we going to grow? And I'm 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.240 you know, you get the sweats and you think I can't. 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:06.560 I don't know if I'm getting about to get on 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.600 the plane. This is I'm ruining the entire holiday here. 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.160 And then I heard Leo, who would have been three, 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.920 not even three at the time, say our dad's not 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:25.559 well and I'm hugging the porcelain, and you know you're thinking, 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:27.200 and you had no, no, no, no, I don't want 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:31.000 to be sick. And I heard that and I'm like, no, no, 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:35.160 this can't happen. He can't see this, he can't register 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.000 this as a core memory. 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:42.600 I grew up around a lot of alcoholics. I grew 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.280 up seeing alcohol abused. I grew up around like my dad. 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:48.440 You know, you grew up in working class people who 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:49.400 don't have a lot of money. 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.400 You see domestic violence, you see the problems it causes. 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:56.360 I knew that people had problems when I was growing up. 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:01.040 I knew what Leo knew, and it was just shrugged 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.960 off as that's just what you do. Well, this is 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.720 how we are. Or somebody then the problem gets too 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:09.720 much and they're sent away, and then they come back 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:14.560 and oh, she's a drinker. I just the horror went 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.200 through me as well as everything else. My body was expelling. 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.320 I got on the plane, I slept a lot on 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.360 the way to broom. My body recovered and we got there. 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:29.120 It was piping hot. We sat down at lunch this beautiful, 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.400 you know, Cable Beach Resort, which is lovely, the most 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.920 idyllic place, and Leah was having nuggets and chips and 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:38.520 Lisa and I sat down and we were just got 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.040 mineral water and stuff like that, and she goes, you okay. 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:45.319 I said, yeah, I'm out, and she goes, what do 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.280 you mean. I said, I'm not going to drink anymore. 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:52.280 I'm done, and she's like, oh, okay, and I said, 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:54.800 you do you. I am not going to judge you, 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.599 but and I told her what we've just discussed and 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.880 she's like okay, and she goes, well, I don't know 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:01.360 if I'm ready yet, and I'm like, you don't have 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:03.320 to be ready, but just to let you know. That 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.720 was the moment for me. And a month later she's 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.640 just like, this is boring. And she'd had her own 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.400 thoughts about alcohol as well, which I won't speak to 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:16.040 because they're hers, and she's like, I'm out. So we 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:21.520 had clarity together. And to answer your question, I actually 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:23.160 didn't know if it was going to be permanent. Why 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:25.720 in my heart I did. I just didn't know. I 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:29.000 knew it was over. And one thing that I got 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.320 from my grandmother and from my dad, I think they're 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.640 very willful people, and I think I can be very 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:37.560 more so. Back then, I was very definitive and like, 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.600 that's it, it's over. And I've sort of been lucky 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:45.439 enough that I wasn't deeply addicted, though I did. As 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.360 I think I say in the column, I have stared 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:49.920 into the darkness of that room of my own addiction 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:54.720 and looked very much at it, but I never felt like, 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:56.560 oh God, I could do with a drink. Once it 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:00.680 was over, it was like, oh, what a relief. It's over. 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:02.800 I don't have to think about it again. I don't 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:07.840 have to worry, and I don't have to worry about 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.600 what Leo may think of me. And so that was 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.079 the greatest thing. And it's been a blessing. It's such 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.920 a blessing. It's the best. I feel like a convert. 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.280 I'm more chill about being a convert now than I 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:22.080 was on the Today Show a year later. 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.680 But yeah, you were pretty chill. 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.319 I don't know if I was. I felt like it 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:28.240 blurted out of me. 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:33.200 I rewatched it again last night ahead of our conversation today, 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:35.760 and in fact, we'll put a link in the show 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.679 notes to the amazing piece that you wrote and that 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.520 contains the video in it, so if you do want 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:44.160 to have a look at it. I went back and 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:48.160 watched it again last night, like I say, And so 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:50.720 just to go back exactly to where we started with 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:55.920 that moment. April twenty fifteen, you are co hosting your 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.000 own morning show. You would come on as a guest 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.320 panelist on the Today Show as I mentioned, and Karl 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:05.040 Stefanovic is the host, Sylvia Jeffries and I the fellow panelists. 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:08.480 There was a story in the news that involved one 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.360 of the many moments in our culture in Australia here 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:16.239 about glorification of booze culture. And Karl initiated the conversation, 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:20.920 and I suppose the inference was can we just laugh 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.240 this off as a country we were all getting a 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:28.560 bit serious, or is this a more concerning conversation around 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:33.920 booze culture in Australia And you said, I hate this 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:39.920 And there was a cold fury, which I know sounds 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.600 the opposite of chill, although there's still a coolness. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.840 See what I did there, But it was on the rocks. 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:47.559 You did not lecture. 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:53.560 You repeatedly said in the course of that conversation that 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.160 you were exactly what you were just saying earlier what 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.240 you said to Lisa on the morning that you made 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.800 that decision, and she wasn't quite You said, this is 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.160 my decision. I'm not transferring this judgment. I don't expect 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:08.280 anyone else. I've just made this decision for me. What 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.600 you were calling out at that moment though, was the 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:18.280 just on the present alcohol saturated world in which we live. 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.440 You know, as you said, Dan Akroyd is one of 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:26.079 millions of people that is perpetuating this. Tell me about 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.520 that moment because to this day, I don't know whether 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:32.760 you knew you were going to go public on National 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.800 TV with the revelation that you've given up alcohol. 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:39.040 No, because we were sitting there before the segment, and 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.240 it was something about it, and it was Shane Warn 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.760 interviewing people, the late great Shane Warn, who I knew, 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:46.560 and I didn't know him very well, but I knew 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.600 awesome guy. So it was nothing to do with Shane 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.080 or his legacy or anything, but it was about the 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.680 culture of are we getting on? How good is this, 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:57.719 how we're going to celebrate, And because of the way 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.640 it was clipped together, which wasn't Shane's fault, it made 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:02.000 it look like that was the only thing he was 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:07.400 talking about. And so for that it just I don't 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.880 know where it came from. Sarah. I would never I 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:16.800 wasn't going to ever just sort of get on and 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.240 not let your people, but also admit what I was 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.880 going through and what I decided. It didn't feel significant, 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.200 and I didn't want to be the story, and it 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.240 just it came out of me, out of and I 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.480 was like, oh, here we go, it's coming out of me. 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.080 I'm going to have to say something. And there it was, 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:38.800 and it was there and out and definitive. And I 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:42.719 was so scared of the reaction after that because of 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.320 you know, there's so many points in my life and 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.800 my father is one of them. You know, his addictions 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:53.680 and alcohol had been well documented. But I had the 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.760 Last Stand poster on my bedroom wall as a kid, 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.440 with him holding up at and a bottle of vodka 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:06.320 and knowing that that was the epitome of strength, and 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:08.559 here is the man that I look up to doing this. 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.680 And I wouldn't be the only one had that poster, 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:12.880 and I wouldn't be the only one seeing my sports 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:17.440 stars get drunk and or a movie star or someone 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.160 who's influencing in their life have that. And here I 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.880 was like bucking against that, and I'm like, oh my god, 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.680 this is just the bits. What am I doing? Why 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:28.640 am I saying these things? Or do I look like 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:32.600 a hypocrite? But I couldn't stop. And then I wrote 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:36.480 the column, and what was astounding about that admission for 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:42.760 me was I put it up on Facebook and it 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:44.760 was probably one of the biggest reactions I've ever had 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.640 in my life. There was very few people called me 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:51.160 a flog. There were some it's the Internet, but it 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.920 was so many men who reached out to me saying, 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.720 how did you do it? How can I do it? 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.160 Or I'm six days sober, or I'm thirty years sober, 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:03.560 and women too, saying it was the best decision I 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.160 ever made. I had so many people saying I don't 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.160 know how to stop. What's your advice? And I would 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.560 try and write back to people. I felt responsible and 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.040 I wanted to help. I wanted to be They're all 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:19.320 of their sponsors in that moment, but at least it 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:22.480 started a conversation amongst a small group the people that 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:24.960 might have been influenced. And it's a conversation now that 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.640 I see. I certainly didn't start it, but you see 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:32.320 it generationally generationally start to ease off. You're seeing people 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:38.560 including I was so interesting last year seeing David boonebin 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:42.080 An interviewed, did you see that? No? Somebody on a 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.680 sports channel was interviewing him about you drank thirty two 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.880 beers on that plane ride blah blah blah, and he said, 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.520 and it was extraordiny. He said, I feel so much shame. 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:53.920 It gets brought up all the time. I think about, 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:57.240 this is what my kids hear about me. This is 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:01.640 my legacy. And you could see it like wow. I 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.520 mean even I grew up with that, like the heroic 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.920 tale of the Odyssea, like tale of drinking that he 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:11.960 had on that plane, and even he's like, no, that's 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.760 not my legacy. I can't have that for my kids. 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.080 It was the same thing that I felt, and I 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.920 was like, oh, yeah, I still relate to that. I 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.480 still feel that so passionately. And I think a lot 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.000 of other people are struggling with that now and coming 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.520 to terms with that. But then I look at younger 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.320 generations of people who actually, boost is not much of 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:32.600 a thing for guys anymore. 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:36.880 You use the word shame in the piece that you wrote, 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.040 so when you talk about that with David Boone, it 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:43.400 was a word that you used yourself right about especially 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.960 being a father, as you say, you're a father of three, 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:48.680 but your twins were yet to be born, your son Leo, 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.920 that you really felt that the piece that you wrote 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.320 it did go viral, So yeah, I can only imagine 0:16:55.360 --> 0:17:00.160 the avalanche of correspondence that you received for people that 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:01.960 haven't read it. Like I said, well, we'll put a 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.320 link into show notes. But it was David Campbell. My 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:10.800 family's alcoholism stops with me. So it had many threads 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:15.400 to it, including that intergenerational conversation that you've talked about. 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.360 You've referenced your dad of course, Jimmy Barnes, and that 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:24.119 famous Cold Chisel iconography. I also remember that, you know, 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.280 my older brothers used to watch that concert all the time. 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.960 It's there on stage. Absolutely great concert. 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.520 But I wanted to ask you a little bit about 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.760 the reaction, and there was an avalanche of support from 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.280 where I was looking. But I know, even on the 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:44.880 panel that day, there's also that defensiveness because people feel 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:46.480 and I'm sure some people. 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.399 Listening feel the same. So I wanted us to both 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:51.920 address this that this is not. 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:58.040 About critiquing anyone else's choices or lecturing or any of that. I, 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.560 as I said, sat next to you on panel, Now, 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.000 I don't try to make this podcast about me. The 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.000 reason I keep talking about that is because I was 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.720 there with you at that moment, and I'm glad that 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.240 I was, because I considered myself very privileged to then 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:13.880 say to you, look, I think this would be amazing 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.600 if you want to write about it, And I'm so 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.639 grateful that you did. I think you know, you always 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.520 look back at a few different pieces if you're lucky enough. 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.960 And this was pre Stella. Your twins weren't born, Stella 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.400 wasn't born. I mean a lots happened in the nine 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:30.800 years with Peace exactly, I mean totally the same, yeah, 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:31.960 Billy and Betty Stella. 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:33.600 I mean, you know, listen, I see the work you 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:35.080 do with Stella. I know how big it is. 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.680 It's all, isn't it exactly? 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:43.600 But the way that the conversation has progressed is astounding. Now, 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.920 I sat there that day and I was not necessarily 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.080 defensive because you and I agreed, and in fact, you say, oh, 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:53.760 Carl's going to be really shocked, Sarah that you agree 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:54.080 with me. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:58.240 But I also said, but I don't live that. 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:00.920 I mean, I'm in the culture saying, oh my god, 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:02.840 I'm so stressed. I just can't wait to get home 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:04.960 and have a glass of wine. You're talking about the 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:08.280 champagne being delivered or something good's happened. Let's crack open 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:12.000 the champagne. Rewatching that video again last night, you said 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.560 to me, no, no, no, like, that's that's not what 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:16.200 this is about. 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:17.399 I'm not here to judge that. 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:22.040 The reason I'm mentioning that is because something there got 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.520 planted in my mind that day and the way that 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:27.960 you were listening to podcasts and hearing that voice discussing 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.800 it with your therapist. I clearly had a voice in 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:32.800 my head for a few years going, you know what, 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.280 I think it'd be better if alcohol wasn't a variable 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:40.080 in my life. And so four years ago I climbed 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:44.199 aboard what we call the sober curious movement. I'm like you. 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:46.200 I thought, Oh, it might just be a week a month. 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.680 See how I go four years later? Pretty sure I'll 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.680 never have a drink again in my life. Wow, that's 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.679 really why I congratulations, thank you, and I've you know, 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.320 referenced you a couple of times where I have spoken 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:02.720 about it. Came on one of our sister podcasts, Healthish 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.280 with Felicity Harley a couple of years ago. You were 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:07.399 one of the people that I called out just because, 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.199 like I said, that's what this conversation is about. If 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:13.520 there is nothing here for you, I mean, please listen, 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:15.360 because David Campbell is freaking amazing. 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.480 Okay, but that's okay. 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:21.080 But it's so valuable if it is something there for you, 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:23.560 because as we know, you can't be what you can't see. 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.280 And all of those things tell me a little bit 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.399 dc about the defensiveness, because sometimes if I'm out for dinner, 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.000 I can see people tense up a little bit, as 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:37.040 though I'm going to frown with disapproval if they have 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:40.800 a couple of wines. I like, you could not stress enough. 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.000 No judgment, Honestly, this is just a decision for me. 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:47.320 Do you still encounter a little bit of that defensiveness? 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.080 Not as much as I used to when I first 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.280 I like to always say, I mean, this is a 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.200 very busy thing to say. The first logos is the hardest, 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:56.919 you know what I mean? 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.320 Or saying about the the. 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.399 First Christmas party might be the hardest. Whatever it is 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.320 in your world is always going to be the hardest first, 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.840