1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,340 Michael Thompson: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Michael Thompson. As 2 00:00:07,340 --> 00:00:09,420 Michael Thompson: we head into the warmer months, it seems a pretty 3 00:00:09,420 --> 00:00:12,360 Michael Thompson: good time to talk about swimming pools, but bear with 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,320 Michael Thompson: me because this is serious business. One of the most 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:20,290 Michael Thompson: successful Australian franchises is a company called Poolwerx. Anybody with 6 00:00:20,290 --> 00:00:22,820 Michael Thompson: a pool in their backyard would probably be familiar with them. 7 00:00:23,140 --> 00:00:24,989 Michael Thompson: Even if you don't have a pool in your backyard, 8 00:00:24,989 --> 00:00:28,190 Michael Thompson: you've probably seen their vehicles buzzing around the suburbs. The 9 00:00:28,190 --> 00:00:32,150 Michael Thompson: business now has more than 150 stores, well over 500 10 00:00:32,150 --> 00:00:36,330 Michael Thompson: service vehicles and operates across Australia, New Zealand and the US. 11 00:00:36,550 --> 00:00:40,220 Michael Thompson: It's the world's largest swimming pool and spa service company. 12 00:00:40,610 --> 00:00:42,820 Michael Thompson: We want to take a look today at what has 13 00:00:42,820 --> 00:00:47,060 Michael Thompson: made this business so successful and why the founder chose 14 00:00:47,100 --> 00:00:50,180 Michael Thompson: a franchise model to roll it out. John O'Brien is 15 00:00:50,180 --> 00:00:53,770 Michael Thompson: the founder and CEO of Poolwerx and a serial entrepreneur. John, 16 00:00:53,770 --> 00:00:54,910 Michael Thompson: welcome to Fear and Greed. 17 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:55,801 John O'Brien: Thank you, Michael. Good to be here. 18 00:00:55,801 --> 00:01:01,389 Michael Thompson: Let's start at the very beginning. Why pools? What drew you 19 00:01:01,970 --> 00:01:03,570 Michael Thompson: to the business of pools? 20 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,119 John O'Brien: It's a funny story, Mike. I've been in franchising most 21 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,250 John O'Brien: of my career and after having a corporate career in 22 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,090 John O'Brien: franchising and then four startup franchise brands of my own, I went 23 00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:22,100 John O'Brien: looking for my next franchise opportunity. I actually travelled the 24 00:01:22,100 --> 00:01:25,789 John O'Brien: world for six months and I had a criteria, a 25 00:01:25,790 --> 00:01:28,770 John O'Brien: handful of criteria that I was looking for. I was 26 00:01:28,770 --> 00:01:32,440 John O'Brien: after an industry. I wasn't after a brand. I wasn't 27 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,900 John O'Brien: after a business. I went looking for an industry that 28 00:01:35,900 --> 00:01:40,089 John O'Brien: had a high service component. It had repeat clients. It 29 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,660 John O'Brien: had high gross profit margins. It was an established business. 30 00:01:44,660 --> 00:01:47,820 John O'Brien: I didn't want to build one, but most importantly, it 31 00:01:47,820 --> 00:01:52,250 John O'Brien: was a disorganised industry, and had global upside. So I 32 00:01:52,250 --> 00:01:54,830 John O'Brien: had all of those things in mind and it was like trying 33 00:01:54,830 --> 00:01:57,420 John O'Brien: to find a needle in a haystack. It was very hard. Because 34 00:01:57,420 --> 00:02:01,920 John O'Brien: franchising organises disorganised industries. And lo and behold, I was 35 00:02:02,250 --> 00:02:05,250 John O'Brien: in California. I saw a beat up pool truck go by, 36 00:02:05,620 --> 00:02:07,740 John O'Brien: did some homework. It didn't make sense that that beat 37 00:02:07,740 --> 00:02:09,989 John O'Brien: up pool truck was going into wealthy homes with swimming 38 00:02:09,990 --> 00:02:13,720 John O'Brien: pools and bingo. I found that the pool industry, both 39 00:02:13,950 --> 00:02:17,369 John O'Brien: in retail and service, was disorganised globally. And I bought a little 40 00:02:17,370 --> 00:02:19,210 John O'Brien: business back here in Australia with a store and a 41 00:02:19,210 --> 00:02:22,760 John O'Brien: few vans, and away we went about franchising it, 30 years ago. 42 00:02:24,030 --> 00:02:26,080 Michael Thompson: I want to come back to a few of those 43 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,790 Michael Thompson: points in what you were looking for in a successful 44 00:02:28,790 --> 00:02:32,360 Michael Thompson: franchise, but just for some of the basics of the 45 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,049 Michael Thompson: Poolwerx business, and for listeners who aren't familiar with it, 46 00:02:35,050 --> 00:02:38,340 Michael Thompson: or haven't used you before. What do you actually do? 47 00:02:38,340 --> 00:02:40,300 Michael Thompson: What's the main service that you're providing? 48 00:02:41,780 --> 00:02:44,679 John O'Brien: I always like to put why you do it up first, 49 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,109 John O'Brien: and for us, we create backyard family memories that create Australian, 50 00:02:49,790 --> 00:02:52,870 John O'Brien: New Zealand, American around the pool with your family and 51 00:02:52,870 --> 00:02:55,740 John O'Brien: friends and they're enduring memories. And we make sure they're 52 00:02:55,740 --> 00:02:59,839 John O'Brien: safe and fun. To deliver that, we have both retail 53 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:03,990 John O'Brien: stores that cater for the do- it- yourselfer, and we 54 00:03:03,990 --> 00:03:08,209 John O'Brien: have both home and commercial mobile pool service that caters 55 00:03:08,210 --> 00:03:10,570 John O'Brien: for the do it for me. A lot of people 56 00:03:10,570 --> 00:03:14,750 John O'Brien: think we just do service, but importantly, we also treat 57 00:03:14,910 --> 00:03:17,460 John O'Brien: the pool and sell the chemicals. We do all the 58 00:03:17,460 --> 00:03:20,400 John O'Brien: maintenance and repair of the equipment, sell the equipment and we 59 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,280 John O'Brien: do service. So we're not just a labour business. But 60 00:03:23,310 --> 00:03:25,840 John O'Brien: we don't build pools. Once they're built, we look after 61 00:03:26,010 --> 00:03:29,139 John O'Brien: everything you could possibly imagine with your pool in a one 62 00:03:29,139 --> 00:03:29,740 John O'Brien: stop shop. 63 00:03:30,620 --> 00:03:32,310 Michael Thompson: Do you find that there's a lot of people that 64 00:03:32,310 --> 00:03:35,680 Michael Thompson: build a pool and think that they're going to be able to manage it themselves 65 00:03:35,740 --> 00:03:38,040 Michael Thompson: and then actually realise there's a fair bit of work 66 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:38,880 Michael Thompson: involved in this? 67 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:43,630 John O'Brien: It's part of the pool builders sell is that I'll 68 00:03:43,630 --> 00:03:46,130 John O'Brien: build you a pool that you don't have to touch. 69 00:03:46,530 --> 00:03:49,230 John O'Brien: But as we know in most things, it's like buying a 70 00:03:49,230 --> 00:03:52,640 John O'Brien: brand new car. You end up finding that you've got it in 71 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,790 John O'Brien: the shop quite a bit and it costs a fair bit. But we're 72 00:03:55,790 --> 00:04:01,570 John O'Brien: finding that homeowners very quickly realize they need a professional service to look after 73 00:04:01,570 --> 00:04:05,190 John O'Brien: their pool and keep it clean and healthy and shiny 74 00:04:05,190 --> 00:04:05,850 John O'Brien: and sparkling. 75 00:04:06,430 --> 00:04:08,410 Michael Thompson: And so I suppose that goes back to one of 76 00:04:08,410 --> 00:04:11,330 Michael Thompson: those principles that you were looking for, something that has 77 00:04:11,330 --> 00:04:14,660 Michael Thompson: repeat business. Who would be the typical client then, is it 78 00:04:14,870 --> 00:04:18,120 Michael Thompson: a private kind of backyard pool, people who are just 79 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,659 Michael Thompson: looking to maintain their own pool and therefore are going 80 00:04:20,660 --> 00:04:23,279 Michael Thompson: to be coming back to you every couple of weeks 81 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:23,940 Michael Thompson: or every month? 82 00:04:25,060 --> 00:04:28,080 John O'Brien: Most of our clients, we look after 20% of Australia's 83 00:04:28,190 --> 00:04:32,760 John O'Brien: swimming pools of which there's about 1.5 million pools in the ground. 84 00:04:33,300 --> 00:04:36,940 John O'Brien: And we look after most pools on a monthly basis, 85 00:04:36,940 --> 00:04:39,880 John O'Brien: that's the core of our business. We have lots of 86 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,770 John O'Brien: other services. We look after pools of houses that are 87 00:04:42,770 --> 00:04:45,950 John O'Brien: being sold and people that are on holidays, or people that are 88 00:04:45,950 --> 00:04:48,120 John O'Brien: too sick or elderly to look after their pool. But 89 00:04:48,420 --> 00:04:50,279 John O'Brien: yeah, that's the core of our business, a monthly repeat 90 00:04:50,650 --> 00:04:53,350 John O'Brien: service, which is gold from a marketing point of view, 91 00:04:53,350 --> 00:04:56,150 John O'Brien: because you're constantly building and building on your client base. 92 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,370 Michael Thompson: So you mentioned the criteria when you were searching for 93 00:05:00,370 --> 00:05:04,549 Michael Thompson: the business. High service component, repeat business, something that is quite 94 00:05:04,550 --> 00:05:09,560 Michael Thompson: disorganised as an industry overall. But once you'd settled on that, 95 00:05:09,610 --> 00:05:13,010 Michael Thompson: why did you decide to franchise it? Why didn't you 96 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,690 Michael Thompson: decide to build it up yourself and essentially operate every 97 00:05:16,690 --> 00:05:19,200 Michael Thompson: element as a company in a non- franchise model? 98 00:05:20,510 --> 00:05:23,310 John O'Brien: I was lucky enough in my twenties out of university 99 00:05:23,310 --> 00:05:26,900 John O'Brien: to join corporate. I joined Cadbury Schweppes, and whilst I 100 00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:29,910 John O'Brien: was there in my mid twenties, I found myself being 101 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,940 John O'Brien: promoted to the head of franchising of Cadbury Schweppes in 102 00:05:32,940 --> 00:05:37,380 John O'Brien: Australia. So it's become my career and it really resonates 103 00:05:37,380 --> 00:05:41,570 John O'Brien: with me because I come from a strong entrepreneurial family, 104 00:05:41,620 --> 00:05:44,850 John O'Brien: a multi- generational one. And what I fell in love 105 00:05:44,850 --> 00:05:48,830 John O'Brien: with, with franchising is the entrepreneurial nature, or some people call it 106 00:05:49,630 --> 00:05:53,659 John O'Brien: intrapreneurial because you're actually buying in as a franchisee to 107 00:05:53,660 --> 00:05:57,640 John O'Brien: an established brand, which is quite an interesting twist. But 108 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:02,500 John O'Brien: what franchising does, the corporate creates the brand and the 109 00:06:02,500 --> 00:06:06,870 John O'Brien: system. When you add that to the franchise partner coming 110 00:06:06,870 --> 00:06:10,940 John O'Brien: in and their guts and determination and drive, you add 111 00:06:10,940 --> 00:06:14,170 John O'Brien: the brand to the drive and you've got an insatiable 112 00:06:14,170 --> 00:06:20,450 John O'Brien: force. The person that owns the business, runs the business. The brand 113 00:06:20,450 --> 00:06:23,150 John O'Brien: looks after the back house. The brand, the supply, the 114 00:06:23,150 --> 00:06:26,839 John O'Brien: training. The franchise partners look after the front of house, 115 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,950 John O'Brien: the client facing part. And when the person that owns a 116 00:06:29,950 --> 00:06:32,760 John O'Brien: business runs the business, you get an enormous amount of 117 00:06:32,830 --> 00:06:37,370 John O'Brien: entrepreneurial energy. And I love dealing with that. I particularly love 118 00:06:37,670 --> 00:06:41,240 John O'Brien: when franchise partners or prospective people come to me and 119 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,870 John O'Brien: they talk about the dreams they have for them, or 120 00:06:44,910 --> 00:06:48,159 John O'Brien: them and their wife, for their family, their children. And 121 00:06:48,230 --> 00:06:50,809 John O'Brien: I love working with them to see that come true 122 00:06:50,810 --> 00:06:54,800 John O'Brien: on the sweat of their guts and determination. It's very fulfilling. 123 00:06:55,740 --> 00:06:57,489 Michael Thompson: Stay with me, John. We'll be back in a moment. 124 00:07:02,510 --> 00:07:05,370 Michael Thompson: I'm speaking to John O'Brien, founder and CEO of Poolwerx. 125 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,990 Michael Thompson: Franchising is essentially by its very nature, quite decentralised in 126 00:07:10,990 --> 00:07:14,120 Michael Thompson: that each operator, each franchisee is running their own business, 127 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,080 Michael Thompson: of course with the guidance and support of headquarters. How 128 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,990 Michael Thompson: hard then is it as the founder to actually implement 129 00:07:21,990 --> 00:07:25,440 Michael Thompson: a level of quality control then, especially when you think 130 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,480 Michael Thompson: that the business itself is quite spread out? 131 00:07:29,370 --> 00:07:33,880 John O'Brien: It's always a challenge in any franchise brand. Compliance or 132 00:07:34,190 --> 00:07:37,620 John O'Brien: what we like to call alignment. You can go too 133 00:07:37,620 --> 00:07:41,040 John O'Brien: far. Remembering that if a franchise partner comes in, they 134 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,340 John O'Brien: come in, they're putting their house on the line. They're 135 00:07:43,340 --> 00:07:46,140 John O'Brien: often investing a lot of their capital, if not risking 136 00:07:46,140 --> 00:07:49,350 John O'Brien: all of their capital. And they've got their own energy 137 00:07:49,350 --> 00:07:51,760 John O'Brien: and twists and ideas about how to run with your 138 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:57,070 John O'Brien: brand. Some brands I believe go too far with dictating 139 00:07:57,070 --> 00:08:00,900 John O'Brien: the alignment or compliance in their business, and they lose a lot 140 00:08:01,100 --> 00:08:04,030 John O'Brien: of the benefit of the ideas they learn. Like McDonald's 141 00:08:04,030 --> 00:08:07,260 John O'Brien: say that 60% of their new ideas come from their 142 00:08:07,270 --> 00:08:11,070 John O'Brien: franchise partners. So we have a level of alignment, not 143 00:08:11,070 --> 00:08:14,650 John O'Brien: compliance in our business that leaves our franchise partners a 144 00:08:14,650 --> 00:08:18,330 John O'Brien: fair degree of autonomy to play with the brand and come 145 00:08:18,330 --> 00:08:20,990 John O'Brien: up with new ideas. So it's a balancing act and 146 00:08:20,990 --> 00:08:22,590 John O'Brien: you have to be prepared to give that up a 147 00:08:22,590 --> 00:08:22,980 John O'Brien: little bit. 148 00:08:23,490 --> 00:08:25,840 Michael Thompson: And so I suppose then it really does rely on 149 00:08:25,890 --> 00:08:29,620 Michael Thompson: that investment by the franchisee that this is their business. 150 00:08:29,620 --> 00:08:32,370 Michael Thompson: They're going to want to make it succeed, and in 151 00:08:32,370 --> 00:08:35,670 Michael Thompson: a way that is going to be the quality control 152 00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:39,260 Michael Thompson: and implement that high level of customer satisfaction that you're 153 00:08:39,260 --> 00:08:39,780 Michael Thompson: going to need. 154 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,630 John O'Brien: There's an interesting stat in franchising. I don't know whether I 155 00:08:44,630 --> 00:08:47,670 John O'Brien: invented it or somebody else did, but I'd like to 156 00:08:47,670 --> 00:08:52,090 John O'Brien: call it like the 10/80/ 10 rule. 10% of the people that join 157 00:08:52,090 --> 00:08:56,709 John O'Brien: franchising are incredibly driven people and they'll probably be successful 158 00:08:56,710 --> 00:09:01,510 John O'Brien: in whatever they do, whether it's in franchising or not. There's another 10% of people at 159 00:09:01,950 --> 00:09:05,910 John O'Brien: the other end who probably shouldn't have bought a franchise. 160 00:09:06,020 --> 00:09:08,449 John O'Brien: They got excited at the barbecue one afternoon with their mates and went out and 161 00:09:08,450 --> 00:09:12,770 John O'Brien: bought one. They probably should have stayed employed because they don't 162 00:09:12,780 --> 00:09:15,260 John O'Brien: have the energy to get up every morning and lead 163 00:09:15,260 --> 00:09:19,160 John O'Brien: their team. It's the 80% in between that have a 164 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,860 John O'Brien: dream and a vision for something better, that added to 165 00:09:21,860 --> 00:09:23,750 John O'Brien: the brand, make a success out of it. And that's 166 00:09:23,750 --> 00:09:25,960 John O'Brien: where franchising really sings. 167 00:09:26,570 --> 00:09:30,850 Michael Thompson: So moving on from the franchising model, over the last 168 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,470 Michael Thompson: 30 years, you would've seen some good times and some 169 00:09:34,870 --> 00:09:39,520 Michael Thompson: pretty tough economic times. Have certain periods been tougher than others? 170 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,949 Michael Thompson: And I suppose I'm thinking of two, in particular, the 171 00:09:41,950 --> 00:09:45,040 Michael Thompson: pandemic and what lockdowns might have done to the business. 172 00:09:45,260 --> 00:09:49,959 Michael Thompson: But also after the GFC. Is pools and the upkeep 173 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,850 Michael Thompson: of a pool, something that drops back during tough economic times? 174 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,939 John O'Brien: I remember when the global financial crisis hit. We thought 175 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,240 John O'Brien: people would definitely cut back on pool servicing and look 176 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,410 John O'Brien: after the pool themselves. It didn't happen at all. We're 177 00:10:05,410 --> 00:10:08,260 John O'Brien: 30 years old next year, and there's only been one 178 00:10:08,260 --> 00:10:12,170 John O'Brien: year that we haven't had double digit growth. So right 179 00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:16,010 John O'Brien: through GFC, I don't know what people cut back on, 180 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,679 John O'Brien: but they didn't cut back on their pool service. And I 181 00:10:18,830 --> 00:10:22,560 John O'Brien: hear from colleagues that have other home service franchise brands, 182 00:10:22,710 --> 00:10:25,740 John O'Brien: the same thing happened to them. The good thing for 183 00:10:25,740 --> 00:10:29,040 John O'Brien: us is that we're not like a home cleaning business. 184 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,170 John O'Brien: We're a home pool service and maintenance business. So swimming 185 00:10:32,170 --> 00:10:36,349 John O'Brien: pools are a living beast. They consume chemicals and consume equipment, 186 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,780 John O'Brien: one of the reasons I chose it. So you can't 187 00:10:38,780 --> 00:10:40,900 John O'Brien: actually turn it off or put it in a garage 188 00:10:40,900 --> 00:10:43,770 John O'Brien: or ignore it. You can't let the grass grow. You can let the 189 00:10:43,770 --> 00:10:47,480 John O'Brien: grass grow, but you can't ignore the pool. So that was 190 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,640 John O'Brien: very important for us. And it's quite technical. For those people who 191 00:10:51,010 --> 00:10:54,010 John O'Brien: have had pools, looking after them. They're a tricky thing. 192 00:10:54,620 --> 00:10:58,010 John O'Brien: So you need technically qualified people to look after them 193 00:10:58,010 --> 00:11:01,310 John O'Brien: and balance them. So right through the GFC, we went really strong. 194 00:11:01,690 --> 00:11:04,820 John O'Brien: It was important for us. We kind of future proofed 195 00:11:04,820 --> 00:11:08,770 John O'Brien: our business. So we started as a domestic home pool 196 00:11:08,770 --> 00:11:12,920 John O'Brien: service company and we saw that we had winter downturn in 197 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,510 John O'Brien: demand and in cash flow. So we grew a commercial 198 00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:19,420 John O'Brien: side to our business, which is constant all year round. 199 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,090 John O'Brien: And it has six streams. Hospitality and defence forces and 200 00:11:24,090 --> 00:11:27,860 John O'Brien: universities and schools and whatever. Then we saw that we were 201 00:11:28,020 --> 00:11:30,709 John O'Brien: missing out on the do- it- yourself market, so we 202 00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:34,350 John O'Brien: opened retail stores. And then we saw where we were 203 00:11:34,570 --> 00:11:38,480 John O'Brien: too focused on labour only, and we started selling equipment 204 00:11:38,540 --> 00:11:42,199 John O'Brien: and selling chemicals and labour. So we've got the domestic, the commercial, 205 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,720 John O'Brien: the retail. We've got three roads to market and we've 206 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,610 John O'Brien: got three primary product areas, equipment, chemicals, and labour. So 207 00:11:48,610 --> 00:11:52,719 John O'Brien: that kind of future proofs us against all sorts of downturns, and we 208 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,790 John O'Brien: can pull lots of levers at different times. I mean, 209 00:11:55,790 --> 00:11:59,010 John O'Brien: one of the other interesting things in franchising generally and 210 00:11:59,010 --> 00:12:03,179 John O'Brien: for us, is that if there is a quiet economic 211 00:12:03,179 --> 00:12:06,650 John O'Brien: time outside of our business, it's often a time where you 212 00:12:06,650 --> 00:12:10,570 John O'Brien: get an increase in demand for franchising because people want 213 00:12:10,570 --> 00:12:13,000 John O'Brien: more security about their future. They want to buy their 214 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:18,550 John O'Brien: future rather than run the risk of being let go. So there's always a spike as there is at the moment. 215 00:12:18,990 --> 00:12:21,760 Michael Thompson: Well, I suppose that leads into my next question, which is 216 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:26,240 Michael Thompson: about expansion and where you see the business going. I 217 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,240 Michael Thompson: mentioned that you're in Australia, New Zealand and the United 218 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,540 Michael Thompson: States. Can you expand beyond that? And does it come 219 00:12:33,540 --> 00:12:38,890 Michael Thompson: down to finding countries that have this backyard pool culture 220 00:12:38,890 --> 00:12:42,710 Michael Thompson: similar to Australia? Is that something that's fairly unique? 221 00:12:43,330 --> 00:12:46,640 John O'Brien: One of the interesting things about us. Most brands expand 222 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,850 John O'Brien: in franchising because they get a phone call from Dubai 223 00:12:49,850 --> 00:12:53,390 John O'Brien: from somebody's auntie, which is a reactive way of expanding, 224 00:12:53,390 --> 00:12:57,330 John O'Brien: and it normally ends in tears. We started our business 30 years ago, 225 00:12:57,380 --> 00:13:01,059 John O'Brien: wanting to be a global business. That's why I did the homework I did. And 226 00:13:01,059 --> 00:13:04,110 John O'Brien: then about 20 years ago, we went and did a 227 00:13:04,110 --> 00:13:08,300 John O'Brien: lot of work with consultants to work out what were the 228 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:11,420 John O'Brien: list of countries we could go into and bingo, we 229 00:13:11,420 --> 00:13:14,839 John O'Brien: found about 20 countries that met our criteria and they were 230 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:20,470 John O'Brien: simply hot and rich. So that's what a lot of 231 00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:24,850 John O'Brien: consulting money boiled down to. So we went and protected 232 00:13:24,850 --> 00:13:28,329 John O'Brien: our brand, our domain name and our trademark in those 20 233 00:13:28,330 --> 00:13:33,270 John O'Brien: countries all that time ago. Thank heavens we did. And that's why we 234 00:13:33,650 --> 00:13:37,340 John O'Brien: expanded into New Zealand as our test once we got Australia covered. Expanded 235 00:13:37,340 --> 00:13:40,300 John O'Brien: into New Zealand as our test market, and then obviously went 236 00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:43,000 John O'Brien: into the biggest opportunity, which is the US where we're now in eight different states with a 237 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,630 John O'Brien: head office in Dallas. And Europe is obviously our next 238 00:13:49,630 --> 00:13:53,490 John O'Brien: target. We were close to an acquisition pre- COVID and we're back reengaging with 239 00:13:53,490 --> 00:13:59,180 John O'Brien: those people now. An interesting fact, the five largest pool countries 240 00:13:59,340 --> 00:14:04,829 John O'Brien: are also the five largest franchise nations, USA, Brazil, France, 241 00:14:04,890 --> 00:14:07,599 John O'Brien: Australia, and Spain. So that's where we're heading. 242 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,440 Michael Thompson: It seems like a fairly good match up then. 243 00:14:09,710 --> 00:14:09,920 John O'Brien: Yeah. 244 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,270 Michael Thompson: One last question, John, before we wrap up. What are 245 00:14:13,270 --> 00:14:17,330 Michael Thompson: you seeing happening within the broader franchising space? I understand there's a 246 00:14:17,330 --> 00:14:19,620 Michael Thompson: bit of interest now from private equity. 247 00:14:21,090 --> 00:14:24,240 John O'Brien: Because we've got quite a large US business, we've seen over 248 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,510 John O'Brien: the last three years, maybe five, that private equity, like 249 00:14:29,510 --> 00:14:32,100 John O'Brien: in the States, there's $ 3 trillion looking for a home. 250 00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:37,520 John O'Brien: What they call it won't matter. But the private equity has identified franchising as 251 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,310 John O'Brien: another area of investment, and we've seen quite an aggregation 252 00:14:41,530 --> 00:14:44,810 John O'Brien: of brands within retail, within fast food. And in the 253 00:14:44,810 --> 00:14:48,340 John O'Brien: last couple of years in service, home service brands. And 254 00:14:48,340 --> 00:14:51,480 John O'Brien: what they're doing, they're gobbling up home service brands, packaging 255 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,740 John O'Brien: them up and then flipping them into IPOs and public. 256 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:55,660 John O'Brien: It's interesting. 257 00:14:56,050 --> 00:14:58,170 Michael Thompson: Yeah, it certainly is. John, thank you very much for 258 00:14:58,170 --> 00:14:59,440 Michael Thompson: talking to Fear and Greed this morning. 259 00:14:59,860 --> 00:15:01,810 John O'Brien: A pleasure, Mike. Thanks for having me on. 260 00:15:02,290 --> 00:15:05,270 Michael Thompson: That was John O'Brien, founder and CEO of Poolwerx. This 261 00:15:05,270 --> 00:15:07,750 Michael Thompson: is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Join me and 262 00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:10,050 Michael Thompson: Sean Aylmer every morning for the full Fear and Greed 263 00:15:10,050 --> 00:15:12,660 Michael Thompson: podcast with all the business news you need to know. 264 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,510 Michael Thompson: I'm Michael Thompson. Have a great day.