Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
Speaker 1: It's Thursday, June twenty five, twenty twenty six. Spy Chief
Speaker 1: Mike Burgess is gravely concerned about the temperature and trajectory
Speaker 1: of terrorism threats since the Bondi Beach massacre. The boss
Speaker 1: of ASIO says an Iran aligned group waging terror in
Speaker 1: Europe could coordinate assassinations, arson and vandalism in Australia. That
Speaker 1: story is live now at Vaustralian dot com dot au.
Speaker 1: He's raw, uncensored and unemployed. Karl Stefanovic, the tvaster and podcaster,
Speaker 1: will leave nine Entertainment after an ill advised interview with
Speaker 1: far right figure Tommy Robinson proved too much for the suits.
Speaker 1: Steve Jackson is here. Steve Jackson edits the media diary
Speaker 1: in The Australian Jacko on Wednesday morning. The most interesting
Speaker 1: episode of the Karl Stefanovick podcast was happening because it
Speaker 1: had been removed. I had no intention of listening to
Speaker 1: Carl Stefanovick interview Tommy Robinson until the episode was gone.
Speaker 1: Suddenly I was desperate to find it.
Speaker 2: Loved by supporters and condemned by critics. A few figures
Speaker 2: have had a bigger impact on Britain's cultural wars.
Speaker 3: Strap yourselves in.
Speaker 2: Here's our chat with Tommy Robinson.
Speaker 1: And it didn't take me long to find this deleted
Speaker 1: episode on another website where someone had forgotten to get
Speaker 1: rid of it. I listened to the whole thing and
Speaker 1: we can talk about that in a moment. But first,
Speaker 1: what did we know about why that episode went down?
Speaker 2: I mean that's the question everyone's been asking. The cover
Speaker 2: up is always the bigger deal than the actual scandal.
Speaker 2: So had it remained online, would it have been a
Speaker 2: big deal? Yeah? Maybe, because it's not that he interviewed
Speaker 2: Tommy Robinson, it's that he didn't interview Tommy Robinson. Tommy,
Speaker 2: great to talk with you. Finally. I'm surprised you're not
Speaker 2: dead yet, so am I I.
Speaker 3: Do think i'd make it a forty I'm forty three.
Speaker 3: I'm not even joking. You have tested I know you
Speaker 3: know I'm not joking.
Speaker 2: You have tested the boundaries. I feel like it's got
Speaker 2: even harder for you in some ways. But also your
Speaker 2: message is finally getting out there.
Speaker 3: Is that correct?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: It is because the media and the establishment had the
Speaker 3: monopoly on the message for so many years. They could
Speaker 3: tell people who I was and people believed them. And
Speaker 3: now thanks to Elon Musk, because there was a period
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen to twenty twenty four, I was invisible. They
Speaker 3: deleted me, delete me from everything.
Speaker 2: And now that it's disappeared, the mystery is why did
Speaker 2: it disappear? And it turns out, for once the mystery
Speaker 2: is not let down. There is actually the biggest story
Speaker 2: is White disappeared. White's gone.
Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson was one of the people posting on social
Speaker 1: media about this, and she in fact posted a whole
Speaker 1: video of the episode, and she implied in her comment
Speaker 1: that Karl Stefanovic had put his employment at Channel nine
Speaker 1: at risk by publishing this episode at all.
Speaker 2: She said he was in the process of potentially getting sacked.
Speaker 2: We know, as we've been reporting and talking about on
Speaker 2: the front since last October, before anyone else was even
Speaker 2: discussing it. We've been saying Karl Stefanovic year left on
Speaker 2: his contract, he's been given permission to do this podcast,
Speaker 2: reinvent himself. And since then, Yeah, at first everyone wanted
Speaker 2: to pretend no, no, it's all business as usual, But
Speaker 2: as soon as it launched, quite clearly it wasn't business
Speaker 2: as usual. There was progressive, woke Channel nine cultivated personality
Speaker 2: Carl Stefanovic on the Today Show and there was quite
Speaker 2: in your face, reinvented all of a sudden, omnoka bloke
Speaker 2: who swears a lot and doesn't wear glasses, Karl stefanovick
Speaker 2: in your face on the podcast, and it was clear
Speaker 2: that they were to Carl Stefanovic's a Karl Stefanovic against
Speaker 2: himself and competing against the personality. So it was always
Speaker 2: going to be one of those one of those personas
Speaker 2: was going to have to die. I think it's going
Speaker 2: to be nine Stefanovic too nice a guy. He's out
Speaker 2: the window, bad boy Karl. He's going to win and
Speaker 2: as a result, Tim on Today Show is going to
Speaker 2: be other.
Speaker 1: It's quite a smart business move by Karl Stefanovic. His
Speaker 1: time at nine is coming to an end. All good
Speaker 1: things must end, Jacko. Even though I think Carl has
Speaker 1: been fantastic on the Today Show and I think he's
Speaker 1: one of Australia's only real TV stars, he has to
Speaker 1: find a new career for himself. He's got a created one,
Speaker 1: and we all know that on YouTube, provocative right wing
Speaker 1: content really works. There is a massive audience out there
Speaker 1: for it, particularly in the United States. That's not a
Speaker 1: bad thing, is it.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think it's a bad thing. And as
Speaker 2: we've discussed a lot, and I'm sure I'm not going
Speaker 2: to put words in your mouth, but I'm sure you
Speaker 2: also feel that this whole idea about councel culture and
Speaker 2: deplatforming people, it's not about deplatforming people. It's about ensuring
Speaker 2: the conversation is balanced, people are tested. But also there's
Speaker 2: a very big difference. You've got Tucker Carson doing his
Speaker 2: own thing in the US, and he can have on
Speaker 2: anyone he wants, and he can advocate for them, he
Speaker 2: can say whatever he likes. The difference is he's not
Speaker 2: also doing a network breakfast television show. So Carl is
Speaker 2: Tucker Carson. One moment people say he's the next Joe Rogan.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure who they is, someone said at once,
Speaker 2: and everyone's repeating it. But I know he wants to
Speaker 2: be Tucker Carson on his show. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: he's got to be the cultivated Carl Stefanovic and make
Speaker 2: no mistake, over the course of two decades, Nina spent
Speaker 2: a lot of money, a lot of time cultivating the
Speaker 2: Carl Stefanovic, who's cheeky, right, He's a cheeky guy from Queensland,
Speaker 2: come good, but he's okay to have in your lounge
Speaker 2: room and he's sort of on your side. And he
Speaker 2: realizes the pressure on women, the pressure to change your
Speaker 2: outfit every day, and he couldn't be bothered changing his
Speaker 2: suit for a year, but that was because he was
Speaker 2: fighting for the sisterhood. Meanwhile, bad boy Carl apparently he
Speaker 2: doesn't where he shoes to school in Brisbane in the
Speaker 2: late eighties early nineties, though that the nineteen twenties only
Speaker 2: came to Brisbane around the turn of the century. And
Speaker 2: he doesn't care and he's going to play by his
Speaker 2: own rules. So it is really a different thing for Carl,
Speaker 2: Like it's not that he interviewed Tommy Robinson, as I say,
Speaker 2: it's that he's also getting two million dollars a year
Speaker 2: to be this Carl. And that's where the conundrum lies,
Speaker 2: because we've seen it's not just nine, it's also a
Speaker 2: rn where he does his podcast with Eddie Maguire. Although
Speaker 2: they just talk over each other, they're also distancing themselves
Speaker 2: because the thing about being edgy bad boy Carl is
Speaker 2: Advertisers don't want to be hanging out with the bad
Speaker 2: boy controversy magnet. They want to be hanging out with
Speaker 2: the safe, brand aware guy that no one's going to
Speaker 2: have a drama with.
Speaker 1: Carl has very successfully monetized the new show he's getting,
Speaker 1: has he well, it seems to be there are ads.
Speaker 1: I mean, there are some of those ads of programmatic
Speaker 1: ads for dog food or JB High Fire, whatever that
Speaker 1: you would hear in any podcast, But there are sponsors.
Speaker 1: This morning, I listened to this episode and heard him
Speaker 1: reading an ad for a kind of workforce platform, And interestingly,
Speaker 1: even the ad was ideological, So instead of it just
Speaker 1: being here's a great workforce platform that can help you
Speaker 1: with your payroll and your compliance, the ad was God
Speaker 1: is hard employing people. These days. It feels like the
Speaker 1: world's out to get you fair work, tough, new.
Speaker 2: Rules, and for a hard and first I.
Speaker 1: Drink Vick exactly. And so Carl is positioning himself as
Speaker 1: the kind of battler's friend, even in the ads and
Speaker 1: that's clearly what that particular sponsor wants. He's delivering the
Speaker 1: product for them. So I listened to this episode this
Speaker 1: morning and Tommy Robinson in the episode presents as the
Speaker 1: kind of cheeky, chappy English tradeye we've all met a
Speaker 1: million times. He's standing in your living room telling you
Speaker 1: about his problems. That is who Tommy Robinson real name
Speaker 1: Stephen Yaxley Glennon really is. He founded something called the
Speaker 1: English Defense League. He led street marchers protesting against Muslims.
Speaker 3: I started in two thousand and nine, led us street
Speaker 3: protest movement till twenty fourteen. We were pretty lively, right.
Speaker 3: We were young english Men full of testosterone, which many
Speaker 3: men aren't. Now, get some testos stone in your luds, right,
Speaker 3: get it up right, because we're all becoming women, so
Speaker 3: get some testos stone in there and become men again.
Speaker 3: But we were young men, Englishmen, and we were of
Speaker 3: the mindset well we used to say, prepared for peace,
Speaker 3: ready for war, death, prison or glory. We won't submit it.
Speaker 1: And he presents himself in the podcast as a perfectly
Speaker 1: reasonable person who is the victim of a grand conspiracy
Speaker 1: by the British establishment to shut him down. What is
Speaker 1: missing is Carl saying to him, well, actually, Tommy, when
Speaker 1: you went to jail, was it really for just speaking
Speaker 1: up against the power or was it for inciting racial hatred?
Speaker 1: You know that's what's missing.
Speaker 2: Well. I also think one of his concerns is when
Speaker 2: it comes to creating this podcast is it's great. He's
Speaker 2: got a few ads and as you say, they're very
Speaker 2: on brand with a conservative view. The difference is if
Speaker 2: we went out and created our own podcast, independent podcast,
Speaker 2: that would be happy. If you're getting one hundred grand
Speaker 2: to tick over a year, you know, because you're creating
Speaker 2: something new. He's also got a very different lifestyle. So
Speaker 2: when something is working for Carl Stefanovic with a mansion
Speaker 2: that he's building and he's I had to use the
Speaker 2: word jet setting lifestyle, but I think amid the fuel crisis,
Speaker 2: the jet set is sort of back. But he has
Speaker 2: higher expectation of living standards. I would say, so when
Speaker 2: he's looking at monetizing something, he's got to be making
Speaker 2: ten times as much as your average podcaster. So he's
Speaker 2: not thinking I'm going to make two hundred grand a
Speaker 2: year out of this and that'll pay the bills. He's thinking,
Speaker 2: I'm going to monetize this to two million dollars. His
Speaker 2: issue with that is, all right, this one thing interviewing
Speaker 2: Barnaby Joyce and Paul and Hanson, and then Barnaby Joyce
Speaker 2: and Paul in Hanson and Barnaby Joyce and Peter Evans,
Speaker 2: just to make it up a little bit and back
Speaker 2: to port. That's one thing. Look, they are conservative politicians,
Speaker 2: and we can argue to the cows come home, how
Speaker 2: to dissect the wheel of left to right hand and
Speaker 2: where they fit. Tommy Robinson's something different in as far
Speaker 2: as when people talk about his background, his time behind
Speaker 2: bars his view as well as he does present, and
Speaker 2: he does a great job of making the mainstream. When
Speaker 2: you start not interviewing him and interviewing him is fine,
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong. When you start advocating for him,
Speaker 2: you are positioning yourself outside of the conservative spectrum and
Speaker 2: really out on the fringes. Not to interview him, but
Speaker 2: to start saying, hey, you're courageous, you're a great bloke.
Speaker 2: That's not an interview, that's publicity.
Speaker 3: I want to go into the roughest areas of ruin
Speaker 3: the working class communies that have been forgotten and neglected,
Speaker 3: and I want to captivate them, re energize them, and
Speaker 3: make them believe that they are And that will cause
Speaker 3: a fucking earthquake.
Speaker 2: Well why not, because this is a great country and
Speaker 2: it's just so lost.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I feel like Tommy Robinson could deal
Speaker 1: with a challenging interview. That's how he has made himself famous.
Speaker 1: He's being a figure of controversy. I don't think necessarily
Speaker 1: he would have expected to go on a provocative podcast
Speaker 1: and just be allowed to just say whatever he wants
Speaker 1: and to be not challenged at all. He's up for
Speaker 1: the challenge, he's up for the fire. That's his brand.
Speaker 2: Tommy knows that they're going to ask him those questions.
Speaker 2: What's more, he's a polished performer. He's got the answers.
Speaker 2: So whatever you're hit him with, he's been asked a
Speaker 2: million times from everyone trying to get the gotcha question,
Speaker 2: he has all the answers. So it's not as though
Speaker 2: you need to go softly with Tommy. He's polished. He's there,
Speaker 2: he's waiting for it. But instead just to go put
Speaker 2: your arm around him. Go mate, We're just a couple
Speaker 2: of battlers down on their luck, hating immigration and just
Speaker 2: wanting to go back to our old culture route. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm on a cultural roots at the same time that
Speaker 2: Karl's talking about taking a salami to school and how
Speaker 2: he was sort of ostracized for that. So look, let's
Speaker 2: say mixed messages at best, but it is it's the
Speaker 2: way he did it.
Speaker 3: We've got a thousand years of Christian English history in
Speaker 3: this country and they've given it away in seventy years.
Speaker 3: They've caused the destruction of our entire nation. They've had
Speaker 3: a successful left wing revolution attack the family attacked, the church, attack, musculinity,
Speaker 3: masculinity attack everything, but accountter revolution has now started and
Speaker 3: they ain't going to be able to stop it.
Speaker 2: Did the talk when your talking?
Speaker 3: Nice one?
Speaker 1: Thanks well, Jacko. This turned out to be a bridge
Speaker 1: too far for Channel nine. They've punted him. Is that
Speaker 1: a good idea? It really feels to me like this
Speaker 1: could have all gone another way.
Speaker 2: Well, it's the interesting thing, as you say, Claire, the
Speaker 2: problem we've had with this story from the outset is
Speaker 2: Carl's in the UK, his managers in Australia, Nines execs
Speaker 2: are in Australia, so it was always going to play
Speaker 2: out overnight during the day yesterday when everyone here is
Speaker 2: scrambling and chasing the story. And like everyone else in
Speaker 2: the country, I've been trying to call Carl. He's been
Speaker 2: asleep in London. He's woken up. Unfortunately back here in Australia.
Speaker 2: Nine has been in meetings all day about it, and
Speaker 2: they've come to the conclusion what's mutually best for both
Speaker 2: of us is maybe to go our own way.
Speaker 1: It's never mutual, though, is it. It's like we're offloading you mate,
Speaker 1: You're too much of a liability. They could have, I
Speaker 1: reckon found a way through this. Carl is famous. KRL
Speaker 1: is clearly popular. He's growing a new audience on YouTube.
Speaker 1: You know, God forbid, that's an audience that maybe nine
Speaker 1: could get. They could have offered him a senior experienced
Speaker 1: journo producer, one of the experts who make sixty minutes
Speaker 1: to help him make the podcast better, ask proper questions,
Speaker 1: be a real journalist. Clearly that's what he's lacking.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and put it on TV like he doesn't
Speaker 2: have to be on the Today Show. You would have
Speaker 2: thought all of this could have been avoided. We've known
Speaker 2: Carl wanted a late night show, was over a decade.
Speaker 2: Now give him the late night show he wants. Obviously
Speaker 2: there's an audience. See if you can sell ad it's
Speaker 2: into it. But give him a producer who can go
Speaker 2: all right. When you interview Tommy, make sure you ask
Speaker 2: him a question.
Speaker 1: Oh well, if it only had been another way.
Speaker 2: Thanks Jecho, Thank you so much for having me un Claire.
Speaker 1: Steve Jackson writes The Australian's Media Diary, and he broke
Speaker 1: the story of Karl Stefanovic's departure at The Australian dot
Speaker 1: com dot a U