WEBVTT - How Karl Stefanovic blew himself up 

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<v Speaker 1>From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Thursday, June twenty five, twenty twenty six. Spy Chief

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<v Speaker 1>Mike Burgess is gravely concerned about the temperature and trajectory

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<v Speaker 1>of terrorism threats since the Bondi Beach massacre. The boss

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<v Speaker 1>of ASIO says an Iran aligned group waging terror in

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<v Speaker 1>Europe could coordinate assassinations, arson and vandalism in Australia. That

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<v Speaker 1>story is live now at Vaustralian dot com dot au.

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<v Speaker 1>He's raw, uncensored and unemployed. Karl Stefanovic, the tvaster and podcaster,

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<v Speaker 1>will leave nine Entertainment after an ill advised interview with

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<v Speaker 1>far right figure Tommy Robinson proved too much for the suits.

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<v Speaker 1>Steve Jackson is here. Steve Jackson edits the media diary

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<v Speaker 1>in The Australian Jacko on Wednesday morning. The most interesting

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<v Speaker 1>episode of the Karl Stefanovick podcast was happening because it

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<v Speaker 1>had been removed. I had no intention of listening to

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<v Speaker 1>Carl Stefanovick interview Tommy Robinson until the episode was gone.

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<v Speaker 1>Suddenly I was desperate to find it.

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<v Speaker 2>Loved by supporters and condemned by critics. A few figures

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<v Speaker 2>have had a bigger impact on Britain's cultural wars.

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<v Speaker 3>Strap yourselves in.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's our chat with Tommy Robinson.

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<v Speaker 1>And it didn't take me long to find this deleted

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<v Speaker 1>episode on another website where someone had forgotten to get

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<v Speaker 1>rid of it. I listened to the whole thing and

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<v Speaker 1>we can talk about that in a moment. But first,

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<v Speaker 1>what did we know about why that episode went down?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that's the question everyone's been asking. The cover

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<v Speaker 2>up is always the bigger deal than the actual scandal.

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<v Speaker 2>So had it remained online, would it have been a

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<v Speaker 2>big deal? Yeah? Maybe, because it's not that he interviewed

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<v Speaker 2>Tommy Robinson, it's that he didn't interview Tommy Robinson. Tommy,

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<v Speaker 2>great to talk with you. Finally. I'm surprised you're not

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<v Speaker 2>dead yet, so am I I.

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<v Speaker 3>Do think i'd make it a forty I'm forty three.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not even joking. You have tested I know you

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<v Speaker 3>know I'm not joking.

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<v Speaker 2>You have tested the boundaries. I feel like it's got

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<v Speaker 2>even harder for you in some ways. But also your

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<v Speaker 2>message is finally getting out there.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that correct?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>It is because the media and the establishment had the

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<v Speaker 3>monopoly on the message for so many years. They could

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<v Speaker 3>tell people who I was and people believed them. And

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<v Speaker 3>now thanks to Elon Musk, because there was a period

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<v Speaker 3>twenty seventeen to twenty twenty four, I was invisible. They

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<v Speaker 3>deleted me, delete me from everything.

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<v Speaker 2>And now that it's disappeared, the mystery is why did

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<v Speaker 2>it disappear? And it turns out, for once the mystery

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<v Speaker 2>is not let down. There is actually the biggest story

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<v Speaker 2>is White disappeared. White's gone.

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<v Speaker 1>Pauline Hanson was one of the people posting on social

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<v Speaker 1>media about this, and she in fact posted a whole

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<v Speaker 1>video of the episode, and she implied in her comment

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<v Speaker 1>that Karl Stefanovic had put his employment at Channel nine

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<v Speaker 1>at risk by publishing this episode at all.

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<v Speaker 2>She said he was in the process of potentially getting sacked.

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<v Speaker 2>We know, as we've been reporting and talking about on

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<v Speaker 2>the front since last October, before anyone else was even

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<v Speaker 2>discussing it. We've been saying Karl Stefanovic year left on

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<v Speaker 2>his contract, he's been given permission to do this podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>reinvent himself. And since then, Yeah, at first everyone wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to pretend no, no, it's all business as usual, But

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<v Speaker 2>as soon as it launched, quite clearly it wasn't business

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<v Speaker 2>as usual. There was progressive, woke Channel nine cultivated personality

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<v Speaker 2>Carl Stefanovic on the Today Show and there was quite

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<v Speaker 2>in your face, reinvented all of a sudden, omnoka bloke

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<v Speaker 2>who swears a lot and doesn't wear glasses, Karl stefanovick

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<v Speaker 2>in your face on the podcast, and it was clear

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<v Speaker 2>that they were to Carl Stefanovic's a Karl Stefanovic against

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<v Speaker 2>himself and competing against the personality. So it was always

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<v Speaker 2>going to be one of those one of those personas

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<v Speaker 2>was going to have to die. I think it's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be nine Stefanovic too nice a guy. He's out

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<v Speaker 2>the window, bad boy Karl. He's going to win and

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<v Speaker 2>as a result, Tim on Today Show is going to

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<v Speaker 2>be other.

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<v Speaker 1>It's quite a smart business move by Karl Stefanovic. His

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<v Speaker 1>time at nine is coming to an end. All good

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<v Speaker 1>things must end, Jacko. Even though I think Carl has

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<v Speaker 1>been fantastic on the Today Show and I think he's

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<v Speaker 1>one of Australia's only real TV stars, he has to

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<v Speaker 1>find a new career for himself. He's got a created one,

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<v Speaker 1>and we all know that on YouTube, provocative right wing

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<v Speaker 1>content really works. There is a massive audience out there

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<v Speaker 1>for it, particularly in the United States. That's not a

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<v Speaker 1>bad thing, is it.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I don't think it's a bad thing. And as

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<v Speaker 2>we've discussed a lot, and I'm sure I'm not going

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<v Speaker 2>to put words in your mouth, but I'm sure you

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<v Speaker 2>also feel that this whole idea about councel culture and

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<v Speaker 2>deplatforming people, it's not about deplatforming people. It's about ensuring

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<v Speaker 2>the conversation is balanced, people are tested. But also there's

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<v Speaker 2>a very big difference. You've got Tucker Carson doing his

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<v Speaker 2>own thing in the US, and he can have on

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<v Speaker 2>anyone he wants, and he can advocate for them, he

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<v Speaker 2>can say whatever he likes. The difference is he's not

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<v Speaker 2>also doing a network breakfast television show. So Carl is

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<v Speaker 2>Tucker Carson. One moment people say he's the next Joe Rogan.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure who they is, someone said at once,

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<v Speaker 2>and everyone's repeating it. But I know he wants to

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<v Speaker 2>be Tucker Carson on his show. But at the same time,

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<v Speaker 2>he's got to be the cultivated Carl Stefanovic and make

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<v Speaker 2>no mistake, over the course of two decades, Nina spent

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of money, a lot of time cultivating the

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<v Speaker 2>Carl Stefanovic, who's cheeky, right, He's a cheeky guy from Queensland,

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<v Speaker 2>come good, but he's okay to have in your lounge

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<v Speaker 2>room and he's sort of on your side. And he

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<v Speaker 2>realizes the pressure on women, the pressure to change your

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<v Speaker 2>outfit every day, and he couldn't be bothered changing his

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<v Speaker 2>suit for a year, but that was because he was

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<v Speaker 2>fighting for the sisterhood. Meanwhile, bad boy Carl apparently he

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't where he shoes to school in Brisbane in the

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<v Speaker 2>late eighties early nineties, though that the nineteen twenties only

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<v Speaker 2>came to Brisbane around the turn of the century. And

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<v Speaker 2>he doesn't care and he's going to play by his

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<v Speaker 2>own rules. So it is really a different thing for Carl,

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<v Speaker 2>Like it's not that he interviewed Tommy Robinson, as I say,

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<v Speaker 2>it's that he's also getting two million dollars a year

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<v Speaker 2>to be this Carl. And that's where the conundrum lies,

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<v Speaker 2>because we've seen it's not just nine, it's also a

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<v Speaker 2>rn where he does his podcast with Eddie Maguire. Although

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<v Speaker 2>they just talk over each other, they're also distancing themselves

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<v Speaker 2>because the thing about being edgy bad boy Carl is

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<v Speaker 2>Advertisers don't want to be hanging out with the bad

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<v Speaker 2>boy controversy magnet. They want to be hanging out with

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<v Speaker 2>the safe, brand aware guy that no one's going to

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<v Speaker 2>have a drama with.

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<v Speaker 1>Carl has very successfully monetized the new show he's getting,

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<v Speaker 1>has he well, it seems to be there are ads.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, there are some of those ads of programmatic

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<v Speaker 1>ads for dog food or JB High Fire, whatever that

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<v Speaker 1>you would hear in any podcast, But there are sponsors.

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<v Speaker 1>This morning, I listened to this episode and heard him

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<v Speaker 1>reading an ad for a kind of workforce platform, And interestingly,

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<v Speaker 1>even the ad was ideological, So instead of it just

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<v Speaker 1>being here's a great workforce platform that can help you

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<v Speaker 1>with your payroll and your compliance, the ad was God

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<v Speaker 1>is hard employing people. These days. It feels like the

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<v Speaker 1>world's out to get you fair work, tough, new.

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<v Speaker 2>Rules, and for a hard and first I.

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<v Speaker 1>Drink Vick exactly. And so Carl is positioning himself as

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of battler's friend, even in the ads and

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<v Speaker 1>that's clearly what that particular sponsor wants. He's delivering the

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<v Speaker 1>product for them. So I listened to this episode this

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<v Speaker 1>morning and Tommy Robinson in the episode presents as the

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<v Speaker 1>kind of cheeky, chappy English tradeye we've all met a

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<v Speaker 1>million times. He's standing in your living room telling you

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<v Speaker 1>about his problems. That is who Tommy Robinson real name

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<v Speaker 1>Stephen Yaxley Glennon really is. He founded something called the

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<v Speaker 1>English Defense League. He led street marchers protesting against Muslims.

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<v Speaker 3>I started in two thousand and nine, led us street

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<v Speaker 3>protest movement till twenty fourteen. We were pretty lively, right.

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<v Speaker 3>We were young english Men full of testosterone, which many

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<v Speaker 3>men aren't. Now, get some testos stone in your luds, right,

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<v Speaker 3>get it up right, because we're all becoming women, so

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<v Speaker 3>get some testos stone in there and become men again.

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<v Speaker 3>But we were young men, Englishmen, and we were of

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<v Speaker 3>the mindset well we used to say, prepared for peace,

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<v Speaker 3>ready for war, death, prison or glory. We won't submit it.

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<v Speaker 1>And he presents himself in the podcast as a perfectly

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<v Speaker 1>reasonable person who is the victim of a grand conspiracy

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<v Speaker 1>by the British establishment to shut him down. What is

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<v Speaker 1>missing is Carl saying to him, well, actually, Tommy, when

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<v Speaker 1>you went to jail, was it really for just speaking

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<v Speaker 1>up against the power or was it for inciting racial hatred?

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<v Speaker 1>You know that's what's missing.

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<v Speaker 2>Well. I also think one of his concerns is when

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<v Speaker 2>it comes to creating this podcast is it's great. He's

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<v Speaker 2>got a few ads and as you say, they're very

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<v Speaker 2>on brand with a conservative view. The difference is if

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<v Speaker 2>we went out and created our own podcast, independent podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>that would be happy. If you're getting one hundred grand

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<v Speaker 2>to tick over a year, you know, because you're creating

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<v Speaker 2>something new. He's also got a very different lifestyle. So

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<v Speaker 2>when something is working for Carl Stefanovic with a mansion

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<v Speaker 2>that he's building and he's I had to use the

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<v Speaker 2>word jet setting lifestyle, but I think amid the fuel crisis,

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<v Speaker 2>the jet set is sort of back. But he has

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<v Speaker 2>higher expectation of living standards. I would say, so when

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<v Speaker 2>he's looking at monetizing something, he's got to be making

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<v Speaker 2>ten times as much as your average podcaster. So he's

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<v Speaker 2>not thinking I'm going to make two hundred grand a

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<v Speaker 2>year out of this and that'll pay the bills. He's thinking,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to monetize this to two million dollars. His

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<v Speaker 2>issue with that is, all right, this one thing interviewing

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<v Speaker 2>Barnaby Joyce and Paul and Hanson, and then Barnaby Joyce

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<v Speaker 2>and Paul in Hanson and Barnaby Joyce and Peter Evans,

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<v Speaker 2>just to make it up a little bit and back

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<v Speaker 2>to port. That's one thing. Look, they are conservative politicians,

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<v Speaker 2>and we can argue to the cows come home, how

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<v Speaker 2>to dissect the wheel of left to right hand and

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<v Speaker 2>where they fit. Tommy Robinson's something different in as far

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<v Speaker 2>as when people talk about his background, his time behind

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<v Speaker 2>bars his view as well as he does present, and

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<v Speaker 2>he does a great job of making the mainstream. When

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<v Speaker 2>you start not interviewing him and interviewing him is fine,

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<v Speaker 2>don't get me wrong. When you start advocating for him,

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<v Speaker 2>you are positioning yourself outside of the conservative spectrum and

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<v Speaker 2>really out on the fringes. Not to interview him, but

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<v Speaker 2>to start saying, hey, you're courageous, you're a great bloke.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not an interview, that's publicity.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to go into the roughest areas of ruin

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<v Speaker 3>the working class communies that have been forgotten and neglected,

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<v Speaker 3>and I want to captivate them, re energize them, and

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<v Speaker 3>make them believe that they are And that will cause

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<v Speaker 3>a fucking earthquake.

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<v Speaker 2>Well why not, because this is a great country and

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<v Speaker 2>it's just so lost.

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<v Speaker 1>It's funny because I feel like Tommy Robinson could deal

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<v Speaker 1>with a challenging interview. That's how he has made himself famous.

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<v Speaker 1>He's being a figure of controversy. I don't think necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>he would have expected to go on a provocative podcast

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<v Speaker 1>and just be allowed to just say whatever he wants

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<v Speaker 1>and to be not challenged at all. He's up for

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<v Speaker 1>the challenge, he's up for the fire. That's his brand.

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<v Speaker 2>Tommy knows that they're going to ask him those questions.

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<v Speaker 2>What's more, he's a polished performer. He's got the answers.

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<v Speaker 2>So whatever you're hit him with, he's been asked a

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<v Speaker 2>million times from everyone trying to get the gotcha question,

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<v Speaker 2>he has all the answers. So it's not as though

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<v Speaker 2>you need to go softly with Tommy. He's polished. He's there,

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<v Speaker 2>he's waiting for it. But instead just to go put

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<v Speaker 2>your arm around him. Go mate, We're just a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of battlers down on their luck, hating immigration and just

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<v Speaker 2>wanting to go back to our old culture route. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm on a cultural roots at the same time that

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<v Speaker 2>Karl's talking about taking a salami to school and how

0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.960
<v Speaker 2>he was sort of ostracized for that. So look, let's

0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.040
<v Speaker 2>say mixed messages at best, but it is it's the

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<v Speaker 2>way he did it.

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<v Speaker 3>We've got a thousand years of Christian English history in

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<v Speaker 3>this country and they've given it away in seventy years.

0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.440
<v Speaker 3>They've caused the destruction of our entire nation. They've had

0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:16.920
<v Speaker 3>a successful left wing revolution attack the family attacked, the church, attack, musculinity,

0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:21.040
<v Speaker 3>masculinity attack everything, but accountter revolution has now started and

0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:22.959
<v Speaker 3>they ain't going to be able to stop it.

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<v Speaker 2>Did the talk when your talking?

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<v Speaker 3>Nice one?

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks well, Jacko. This turned out to be a bridge

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<v Speaker 1>too far for Channel nine. They've punted him. Is that

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<v Speaker 1>a good idea? It really feels to me like this

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<v Speaker 1>could have all gone another way.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's the interesting thing, as you say, Claire, the

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<v Speaker 2>problem we've had with this story from the outset is

0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:44.640
<v Speaker 2>Carl's in the UK, his managers in Australia, Nines execs

0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:46.480
<v Speaker 2>are in Australia, so it was always going to play

0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:49.599
<v Speaker 2>out overnight during the day yesterday when everyone here is

0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.880
<v Speaker 2>scrambling and chasing the story. And like everyone else in

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<v Speaker 2>the country, I've been trying to call Carl. He's been

0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.960
<v Speaker 2>asleep in London. He's woken up. Unfortunately back here in Australia.

0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:01.360
<v Speaker 2>Nine has been in meetings all day about it, and

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<v Speaker 2>they've come to the conclusion what's mutually best for both

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<v Speaker 2>of us is maybe to go our own way.

0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.719
<v Speaker 1>It's never mutual, though, is it. It's like we're offloading you mate,

0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.120
<v Speaker 1>You're too much of a liability. They could have, I

0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.880
<v Speaker 1>reckon found a way through this. Carl is famous. KRL

0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.720
<v Speaker 1>is clearly popular. He's growing a new audience on YouTube.

0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:19.680
<v Speaker 1>You know, God forbid, that's an audience that maybe nine

0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:23.160
<v Speaker 1>could get. They could have offered him a senior experienced

0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.040
<v Speaker 1>journo producer, one of the experts who make sixty minutes

0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.080
<v Speaker 1>to help him make the podcast better, ask proper questions,

0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.000
<v Speaker 1>be a real journalist. Clearly that's what he's lacking.

0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, and put it on TV like he doesn't

0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:36.839
<v Speaker 2>have to be on the Today Show. You would have

0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:38.760
<v Speaker 2>thought all of this could have been avoided. We've known

0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.679
<v Speaker 2>Carl wanted a late night show, was over a decade.

0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Now give him the late night show he wants. Obviously

0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:46.880
<v Speaker 2>there's an audience. See if you can sell ad it's

0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:48.920
<v Speaker 2>into it. But give him a producer who can go

0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:51.800
<v Speaker 2>all right. When you interview Tommy, make sure you ask

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:52.400
<v Speaker 2>him a question.

0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh well, if it only had been another way.

0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Thanks Jecho, Thank you so much for having me un Claire.

0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:04.400
<v Speaker 1>Steve Jackson writes The Australian's Media Diary, and he broke

0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:08.160
<v Speaker 1>the story of Karl Stefanovic's departure at The Australian dot

0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:09.000
<v Speaker 1>com dot a U