Speaker 1: Welcome to the mentor. I'm Marke Boris Stellar petro Conco.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the mentor. How are you going well?
Speaker 2: Thanks Mark, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: You're the founder and HEO of the Rio Group and
Speaker 1: you're an author. Will talk about stuff a bit later
Speaker 1: and doing lots of other things. But look at it.
Speaker 1: What does the Rio group do or what's Rio do?
Speaker 1: There's nothing that will putting down steel, is it? No?
Speaker 2: No, no no, But have been usd the question multiple times.
Speaker 2: We're a national recruitment, professional services and executive search firm
Speaker 2: Eastern Seaboard, Western Seaboard, Southern Seaboard of Australia.
Speaker 1: And not the Northern Sea Board, not yet, not yet.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what sort of recruitment we do up there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so recruitment of what that? What are we talking
Speaker 1: about you?
Speaker 2: White collar, finance, insurance, technology, business services, admin, staff, admin's staff, anything,
Speaker 2: white collar marketing.
Speaker 1: Right, and white collar is interesting term these days. White collar.
Speaker 1: Hopefully it's not going to get counseled for saying it,
Speaker 1: but is white collar? What does that relatively speaking? Say?
Speaker 1: Maybe competit? Blue collar? What do we mean by.
Speaker 2: White collar professional? So people that generally have done a
Speaker 2: degree and they've got some form of professional experience in
Speaker 2: a functional area like accounting. And then obviously you've got
Speaker 2: you know, your clerical which is not driven by yet admin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it would include admin people, yes.
Speaker 2: But that's not the predominant focus of what we do.
Speaker 1: Right. For example, you know, if I have a finance
Speaker 1: department and I need accountants to work in the finance department,
Speaker 1: some like your business Rear group, you would be recruiting
Speaker 1: people into my business that can actually assist in say
Speaker 1: accountspiyable data's management CFOs, that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have wandered, like in today's world, does that
Speaker 1: your model work with the way people tend to employed
Speaker 1: people in some of those roles, not all of those roles,
Speaker 1: but in some of those roles, say, out of the Philippines,
Speaker 1: how do you how does that affect your business or
Speaker 1: does it not affect your business?
Speaker 2: It doesn't really affect our business when you look at
Speaker 2: the total macroeconomic life cycles. So large organizations will outsource
Speaker 2: to large providers in the Philippines or in India, and
Speaker 2: then you know, you might lose some of the recruitment
Speaker 2: in that clerical level, but certainly not in any sort
Speaker 2: of you know, more value add level, so anything above
Speaker 2: say one hundred k, you know it's all local, but
Speaker 2: that that tends not to work sometimes. So what we find,
Speaker 2: and what we've seen with many large as sexes, is
Speaker 2: that they'll outsource. They'll do that for four years, and
Speaker 2: then they'll come back and they'll in source. And it
Speaker 2: just depends on who the CFO is because as you
Speaker 2: turn executives at the top end, you turn the strategy,
Speaker 2: and when the strategy changes, the execution plan changes. So
Speaker 2: what we find is that recruitment, we pick up recruitment
Speaker 2: along the way. So you know, we've just got to
Speaker 2: be agile and understand. You know what's happening in the market,
Speaker 2: who's outsourcing, who's insourcing, and you know what are the
Speaker 2: changes that are happening within an organization.
Speaker 1: That's what of makes sense too, like you, because if
Speaker 1: I'm a new CFO, and these things happen in cycles.
Speaker 1: But if I'm a new CFO of originally large company,
Speaker 1: first thing I want to do is build my strategy.
Speaker 1: And by the way, generally speaking, the strategy before me
Speaker 1: is never any good. We're not good enough. And I'll
Speaker 1: put in my strategy and then the early period, I
Speaker 1: want to make sure that everybody's sitting in front of
Speaker 1: me or somewhere near me so that I can get
Speaker 1: my strategy executed, because it's about not about building strategy
Speaker 1: that's not that hard, but the execution piece is really hard.
Speaker 1: So getting local people to help you get it executed
Speaker 1: up and running, so to speak, is probably pretty important.
Speaker 1: And then I might schedule period in my CFO ship
Speaker 1: where everything's running smoothly, and then I might start to think, hang,
Speaker 1: I've got to reduce cost so that I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now I've got it up and running. My cycle is
Speaker 1: now going to maybe shift few of the costs outsourced,
Speaker 1: a few of the costs of somewhere else, usually at
Speaker 1: the admin level. And because I have been through these
Speaker 1: processes myself, not as a siefhoe but in businesses that
Speaker 1: I own or I watched the CEFO do this stuff.
Speaker 1: So that's a good point. You make a really good point,
Speaker 1: quite an interesting point. But it's an interesting point for
Speaker 1: someone who might be an employee because their life cycle
Speaker 1: usually depends upon the life cycle or the individual who's
Speaker 1: employing them or who they're ultimately reporting into.
Speaker 2: Correct that's what creates the opportunity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's a two way thing. If you do
Speaker 1: nothing about it, if you're the employee and you do
Speaker 1: nothing better, or if you're not aware of it, and
Speaker 1: if you're not watching what's going on, you could get
Speaker 1: disadvantaged by that. But if you are aware of it,
Speaker 1: you can become advantage by that in lots of different ways.
Speaker 1: Can I just go back? That's just had nothing to
Speaker 1: do with your business, but I just always interesting talk
Speaker 1: about from my point of view, So if we could
Speaker 1: just go back a bit, You've got a whole heap
Speaker 1: of things that you do. Like you involved in academia,
Speaker 1: you write books. It looks like you, you know, you
Speaker 1: do the self mastery framework, which is something you want
Speaker 1: to explore. And you know people at Google says your
Speaker 1: TikTok better they get you to talk to their staff.
Speaker 1: I presume because I know that Google often Matter and
Speaker 1: Matter actually often brings people in to talk to the
Speaker 1: staff from out as part of their education programs. As
Speaker 1: one of the offerings that people like matter. I guess
Speaker 1: Google does it do people like meta do? I want
Speaker 1: to talk about those a little bit later, but I
Speaker 1: want to find out how did you become this person.
Speaker 1: You know, what's your story? Where did you come from? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well look I'll start with where I am now,
Speaker 2: and then I'll just quickly and I'll take you back
Speaker 2: to kind of the seed. I've been in the recruitment
Speaker 2: game for about twenty years, interviewed thousands and thousands of executives.
Speaker 1: Across my time, but not in your present form.
Speaker 2: In my present form, I am a full time CEO
Speaker 2: of this agency. I've got a couple of other businesses.
Speaker 2: I've got my academic positions, my board positions, and you know,
Speaker 2: somewhere in between everything, I do a bit of recording
Speaker 2: and a little bit of content production. But that's the
Speaker 2: capacity that I've been able to grow over the last
Speaker 2: twenty years. But no, my full time job is CEO
Speaker 2: of group.
Speaker 1: Before that, the how'd you become CEO of rare Group?
Speaker 1: And why did you decide to form this group?
Speaker 2: You know your questions. Let me finish.
Speaker 1: Now I'm in charge of you. You're used to being
Speaker 1: in charge. So today, oh no, the apprentice is coming
Speaker 1: in today. You have to answer the questions.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, But look where it all started.
Speaker 1: Was I wanted to be a doctor, like a medical doctor.
Speaker 2: Yes I did, and I knew from a very young
Speaker 2: age that was what I want to do in my life.
Speaker 2: And they used to call me doctor Goose, even as
Speaker 2: young as five years old.
Speaker 1: Doctor Goose Goose at home, you meet at.
Speaker 2: Home, right, I'm Greek. My grandmother used to call me
Speaker 2: gordrul Lamore and that got shortened to Goose, and right
Speaker 2: through school. My nickname at school, you know, year five,
Speaker 2: year sixty seven was doctor Goose, and it was very
Speaker 2: clear to me that that was going to be my vocation.
Speaker 2: I did do a medical science as undergraduate. I did
Speaker 2: finish my internship year at Westmeat Private Hospital, a Westmeat
Speaker 2: public hospital. Sorry, and I did not like it. I
Speaker 2: chose the wrong degree, and so I retrained myself as
Speaker 2: a psychotherapist and then I started a business in Balmain
Speaker 2: called Mind Connection, and that psychotherapy practice treated people at
Speaker 2: the level of their mind. So I was treating sick people,
Speaker 2: different types of sicknesses, but from a different perspective. And
Speaker 2: I was charging one hundred and eighty bucks an hour.
Speaker 2: And went to the bank to get a loan to
Speaker 2: buy house, and they wouldn't give me a loan because
Speaker 2: I was a sole operator I was a small business
Speaker 2: owner and I couldn't get ahead. And I thought, you know,
Speaker 2: how am I going to pay off this degree? What
Speaker 2: am I going to do? I can't get ahead here,
Speaker 2: so I need to go get a job. So I
Speaker 2: closed that business down in Balmain and I went and
Speaker 2: got a job. And see, I had this degree, this
Speaker 2: clinical degree, and this incredible bedside experience and a clinical mind,
Speaker 2: and then I had experience as a business owner in psychotherapy,
Speaker 2: and I didn't know where to go to get a job.
Speaker 2: And I was forced to get a job because back
Speaker 2: then we were talking twenty years ago, it was difficult
Speaker 2: to get a loan and I wanted to get a loan.
Speaker 2: I wanted to buy a house. So I got a
Speaker 2: job at Johnson and Johnson Jane Jack as a medical rep.
Speaker 2: So they went, well, you know this, girl, I've got.
Speaker 2: All I've got is an internship year, is clinical experience,
Speaker 2: and then this business. So really, I'm twenty five and
Speaker 2: I'm still a rookie. I still haven't got any experience.
Speaker 2: I'm in massive debt, massive.
Speaker 1: Massive debt, and has and you need debt, nah, like.
Speaker 2: The business, you know said a lot of money into
Speaker 2: that business, and so get this job and I'm repping,
Speaker 2: and I thought, you know, there's going to be more
Speaker 2: to life than this. I've got this you know, academic background,
Speaker 2: and then I somehow fell into recruitment. And what I
Speaker 2: realized when I got into recruitment, because it's kind of
Speaker 2: like a series of failures, like job one failure, You're
Speaker 2: never going to be a doctor. You don't even like it.
Speaker 2: It was far too process driven for me. Job to
Speaker 2: clinical psychotherapist. Start your own business, that's exactly what I am.
Speaker 2: I'm you know, kind of an entrepreneur, but couldn't make
Speaker 2: any money in it and was forced to leave because
Speaker 2: of the situation of the time job number three Johnson
Speaker 2: and Johnson Medical repping wasn't using my brain, wasn't really contributing,
Speaker 2: not really selling products basically yeah, selling you know, knocking
Speaker 2: doctor's doorsteps and having kind of those sorts of conversations
Speaker 2: wasn't going to be only did it for two years
Speaker 2: and then fell into recruitment, and I didn't as a recruiter.
Speaker 2: As a recruiter, so finance recruitment and I was good
Speaker 2: at it.
Speaker 1: But that's so out there, it's so weird. How did
Speaker 1: someone whoever it was the recruiting companies say, Okay, your
Speaker 1: job will be recruiting for finance companies or for companies
Speaker 1: who need financial people. How do they pick that like you?
Speaker 2: So recruitment's a sales job. So all you need is
Speaker 2: very very strong at KIM and up here. You've got
Speaker 2: to be able to read people. You've got to be
Speaker 2: able to ask questions. You've got to be able to
Speaker 2: make deductions on what people tell you, and you've got
Speaker 2: to understand ecosystems. So you've got to say, well, if
Speaker 2: this person has this kind of layer and this type
Speaker 2: of skill, you've got to be able to match them
Speaker 2: to strategy, culture and functional needs of organizations. And if
Speaker 2: you can get those two right, you're in business. And
Speaker 2: within a very very short period of time in this organization,
Speaker 2: I became their Asia Pacific number one recruiter. I was
Speaker 2: really good at it. And what made me good at it,
Speaker 2: I think was my medical background. How's that because I
Speaker 2: was able to treat each one of my candidates as
Speaker 2: a patient. So I asked them questions like employee. You know,
Speaker 2: the people I was into me, the people that wanted
Speaker 2: to leave their jobs, the people that needed a new job.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the person you're going to place that's correct, and
Speaker 1: asking them.
Speaker 2: More psychotherapeutic questions like why are you here right now?
Speaker 2: What's brought you to this space? Why don't you like
Speaker 2: your job? Deeper than profiling, much deeper than profiling, I
Speaker 2: would say, going deep into their value and belief motivations.
Speaker 2: And that created some really beautiful work. And then the
Speaker 2: GFC hit and I was still doing very well, but
Speaker 2: my boss was made redundant. Then my boss's boss was
Speaker 2: made redundant, and then my boss's boss's boss was made redundant,
Speaker 2: and I thought, oh my god, what's going on? And
Speaker 2: they were all females, and I ended up being the
Speaker 2: last female in this organization back in two thousand and nine,
Speaker 2: and I turned to my fiance at the time, who's
Speaker 2: now my husband. I said to him, I actually don't
Speaker 2: think I can keep working here because I want to
Speaker 2: get married, I won't have a baby. I don't feel
Speaker 2: that this is the environment that's going to allow me
Speaker 2: to do that. Would you be interested in going into
Speaker 2: business with me?
Speaker 1: And what was he doing?
Speaker 2: So he was a small business owner himself. He had
Speaker 2: a couple of businesses. He actually had five businesses, and
Speaker 2: he goes, Okay, Babel, I don't know anything about recruitment,
Speaker 2: but if this is what you want to do for
Speaker 2: the rest of your life, let's give it a crack.
Speaker 2: So I resigned. He sold his last business to John
Speaker 2: Houston actually had an important export business. He sold it
Speaker 2: to John Cuson. Yeah, that's correct, and so I sat
Speaker 2: out my noncompete and then in twenty ten together we
Speaker 2: launched Reo Group. He had zero experience in recruitment. I
Speaker 2: had two, and somehow, fifteen years later, we are.
Speaker 1: How important do you think it is? Do you you
Speaker 1: think it is in hindsight having had the experience as
Speaker 1: a because that's a hard cell. Working for the pharmaceutical
Speaker 1: companies that they going around to doctors. That's a hard
Speaker 1: sell because you know, as you walk out the door,
Speaker 1: the next one, why is it walks in? And whoever
Speaker 1: it is, they'll walk in and the doctor's being inundated
Speaker 1: by the surface. So how important was in hindsight was
Speaker 1: that selling? I hate the words selling? Was that relationship
Speaker 1: building experience?
Speaker 2: I would say what that taught me was hard core
Speaker 2: cold introductions. It was so cold. They gave you little
Speaker 2: training and they said, here, you've got your clinical work papers,
Speaker 2: go and rock up to that doctor down on Victoria Street.
Speaker 2: You go and you introduce yourself. You let them know
Speaker 2: who you are, and you've got to tell them about
Speaker 2: your drug and we're going to monitor you and we're
Speaker 2: going to see how much of your drug gets written
Speaker 2: in that location, in that brick.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 2: Medicin's Australia have changed the rules. Now it's all changed.
Speaker 2: I mean we're talking twenty years ago, because you really
Speaker 2: should not be using sales techniques to push drugs, but
Speaker 2: that's what we were doing. So what they taught me
Speaker 2: was how to be fearless and how to accept the
Speaker 2: fact that you are going to walk in that doctor
Speaker 2: is going to say I'm not interested. Please please don't.
Speaker 2: You're just a rap. You will feel disrespectfed, disrespected. Your
Speaker 2: academic background will be.
Speaker 1: Over looked, dismissed, overlooked.
Speaker 2: You are a glorified coffee runner and you had to
Speaker 2: manage that yourself.
Speaker 1: It goes off and wonder about that. So your cold calling,
Speaker 1: I mean I presume you just ringing the doctor the
Speaker 1: medical center up.
Speaker 2: No, you just walk in.
Speaker 1: There's no calls, no calls, a walk in this walk.
Speaker 1: So you sit down there waiting for your turn, as
Speaker 1: in pretending that you're having a consultation or no, no, no,
Speaker 1: You go.
Speaker 2: Up and you go up to the receptionists, tell them
Speaker 2: who you are. They'll put you in line and you
Speaker 2: sit there in your way.
Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: And then you've got maybe thirty seconds at the at
Speaker 2: the counter to have a conversation with the doctor if
Speaker 2: they let you. And you know, these poor.
Speaker 1: Doctors, I have so much at the county. You don't
Speaker 1: go into the comment sometimes if they like it, you did,
Speaker 1: but they liked you you did. Otherwise you're talking on
Speaker 1: the talking on the run.
Speaker 2: So what's great training?
Speaker 1: So I was going to say, what did you learn
Speaker 1: from that thirty seconds then that people could use today?
Speaker 1: I mean, what are the sort of fundamentals you got
Speaker 1: out of that in terms of either getting into the
Speaker 1: room so you can have a longer conversation or at
Speaker 1: least getting them to give you an email address or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know. What do you try to do?
Speaker 2: Is this? You've got to do the volume. Not every
Speaker 2: call that you make, not every strike that you make,
Speaker 2: is going to land. So you've got to do the volume.
Speaker 2: And it's that traditional sales funnel. The volume tells us
Speaker 2: that so long as you're doing enough, you know the funnel,
Speaker 2: then it's some point it's going to drop into a sale,
Speaker 2: let's say, or something will convert. But if your volume
Speaker 2: of leads or your volume of activity, if if it
Speaker 2: isn't high enough, if you're not touching enough people, then
Speaker 2: you're not going to convert. So what that taught me
Speaker 2: was just do the volume. This is not about quality.
Speaker 2: This is about volume and see over time. What volume
Speaker 2: does is it permits the opportunity for quality to become
Speaker 2: available to you. You've got to earn the right to
Speaker 2: have a quality conversation. You can't just go in and
Speaker 2: have a quality conversation. No one's going to trust you.
Speaker 2: You've got to earn that right. And how do you
Speaker 2: earn that right. You've got to do the hours, you've
Speaker 2: got to do the calls, you've got to do the work.
Speaker 2: The volume, and that usually informs an opportunity. You know,
Speaker 2: you touch that doctor y. You know, for us in recruitment,
Speaker 2: you touch that client enough times after three or four touches,
Speaker 2: so like, okay, I like you. I'll give you a
Speaker 2: moment and at that point you've earned the right to
Speaker 2: have the right conversation.
Speaker 1: That's really interesting. So the concept of hard work or
Speaker 1: being prepared to do things over and over and over
Speaker 1: again is to some extent statistically controlled by just normal
Speaker 1: conversion rates. So don't expect are you saying, don't expect
Speaker 1: to be I'm going to convert ten out of ten.
Speaker 1: I'm going to go against the grain. Most people aren't
Speaker 1: going to convert one out of ten the general rules.
Speaker 1: Some really good people might convert one and a half
Speaker 1: out of ten or one point eight out of ten.
Speaker 1: But I'm going to do ten out of ten. Therefore'm
Speaker 1: going to instead of doing one hundred points, I'm going
Speaker 1: to going to do ten appointments. You can't go against
Speaker 1: the trends, you can't go against the stats. So you've
Speaker 1: got to work with the stats. So that just means therefore,
Speaker 1: don't be shitty, and don't be disappointed if you choose
Speaker 1: this environment. Don't be shitty. Don't be disappointed if because
Speaker 1: you've got to do one hundred calls a week or
Speaker 1: one hundred visits a week, or whatever the case may be,
Speaker 1: and you might have to do it for a whole
Speaker 1: year or two years or three years just to get
Speaker 1: your rep wrap up, your reputation up, and also your
Speaker 1: contacts up and your sort of flow flow state rhythm rhythm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got to build it. You know, there's there's
Speaker 2: a lot of there's a law around this. You've got
Speaker 2: to you've got to work with the law l A
Speaker 2: W or l o.
Speaker 1: R l a W.
Speaker 2: You've got to the laws of the world, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: There is a because you know there's some people say
Speaker 1: the l O I E in other words, it's sort
Speaker 1: of folkloric that you just got to do lots of
Speaker 1: volume to get cut through in other words, and and
Speaker 1: that's sort of like it can be a bit folk lourish.
Speaker 1: But you're saying it's sort of like a law of
Speaker 1: the universe. It's like nearly a statistical law. You're you
Speaker 1: will not be the statistics of people who are interested
Speaker 1: in your product. It doesn't matter how good you are
Speaker 1: at it. You might you might, you might get at
Speaker 1: the upper end of the statistical range, but you're not
Speaker 1: going to sort of outperform it by ten times.
Speaker 2: No, you're not a superhuman.
Speaker 1: Unless you do can do ten times as many meetings.
Speaker 2: I saw a meme on LinkedIn recently on Federer, he
Speaker 2: said that he only lands fifty two percent of his serves.
Speaker 2: The other forty eight percent he fails, and yet he
Speaker 2: is one of the best tennis players of all time.
Speaker 2: And the message in that is he is not perfect.
Speaker 2: Fifty two percent of the time he lands, at forty
Speaker 2: eight percent of the time he doesn't. And so even
Speaker 2: our greatest athletes aren't landing every time. So why would
Speaker 2: it be any different for a corporate Why would it
Speaker 2: be any different for anyone just in the standard work environment?
Speaker 1: Has that got Has that got something to do with
Speaker 1: the in reflective sense, something to do with the target
Speaker 1: the person or targeting and you're in the case of
Speaker 1: the example just gave us the doctor or the medical practitioner.
Speaker 1: Has it got something to do with the attention span
Speaker 1: of individuals? Is that got something to do with understanding
Speaker 1: and respecting how busy they just how busy they are?
Speaker 1: Has it got somebody to do with understanding or being
Speaker 1: aware of the ability to cut through when somebody is
Speaker 1: really busy in a busy environment like a day, surgery
Speaker 1: or whatever the case may be. What do you think
Speaker 1: that's got to do with Because it doesn't necessarily we
Speaker 1: shouldn't necessarily reflect on ourself saying oh bloody ell, I
Speaker 1: was hopeless. I couldn't get through it. To the individual,
Speaker 1: it's probably more about the individual. It's more about understeing
Speaker 1: the individual.
Speaker 2: I think it's a few things. I think that first
Speaker 2: of all, it's attitude within the individual. There needs to
Speaker 2: be an underlining, underlining attitude of growth mindset call it.
Speaker 2: They have to have a positive relationship with failure. But
Speaker 2: second to that, they have to have a positive relationship
Speaker 2: with failure.
Speaker 1: What does that mean? A preparedness to fail?
Speaker 2: As humans, we move away from failure. Failure is painful
Speaker 2: and we tend to move to it's pleasure, so we
Speaker 2: like the nectar of life. The thing is with failure,
Speaker 2: failure and growth are symbiotic in nature. They go together.
Speaker 2: So you can't have growth without failure. And if we're
Speaker 2: going to talk about landing success, then what underpins that
Speaker 2: is growth. So if you can't have growth without failure,
Speaker 2: and this is a universal law, so you know, you
Speaker 2: can't grow your muscles without going to the gym and
Speaker 2: having them tear. You have to tear your muscle. Failure
Speaker 2: take it, you have to take it to failure. So
Speaker 2: you can say everything in life, failure informs growth.
Speaker 1: The thing is it stimulates, it.
Speaker 2: Stimulates, it informs it. It's a pathway. The thing is
Speaker 2: with that is is that because our psychology moves towards
Speaker 2: pleasure and we don't have a very good relationship with failure,
Speaker 2: what it does is that when we do fail, we
Speaker 2: tend to experience negative human emotions like shame, blame, guilt, fear, anxiousness,
Speaker 2: and all of those negative human emotions which exist within
Speaker 2: the ego tend to be a barrier for us to
Speaker 2: go ahead and go I know I'm going to fail
Speaker 2: at this, but I'm going to do it anyway. Like
Speaker 2: I'm here talking to you, I've never spoken to you before.
Speaker 2: This could be a failure. I could say something I shouldn't,
Speaker 2: but I've never done it before. So I've given myself
Speaker 2: permission today whenever I do something that I've never done before,
Speaker 2: allow myself the opportunity to fail, because only in that
Speaker 2: failure am I going to be able to reflect and
Speaker 2: take the learning. So the positive relationship with failure means
Speaker 2: that it gives me a pathway to go, Well, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to be I'm not going to nail it.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to nail it every time. Maybe fifty
Speaker 2: percent I might al it. So it's okay if you
Speaker 2: don't know it today. And what happens is is then
Speaker 2: when you have that type of attitude, it creates space
Speaker 2: for confidence because you can't have you're not born with
Speaker 2: No human is born with confidence. Confidence cultivates through the
Speaker 2: space of detachment from your ego. You can't fake confidence.
Speaker 2: Confidence is natural, It comes deep within. You can create
Speaker 2: confidence in a functional area. For example, I've done four
Speaker 2: thousand hours of recruitment, you've done four thousand hours of podcasting.
Speaker 2: You're good at it, okay, But that doesn't mean you're
Speaker 2: deeply confident. Still very capable people have a lot of
Speaker 2: self doubt. Capability and confidence are different things, although they
Speaker 2: get misconstrued often in corporate or in life general. So
Speaker 2: coming back to failure, having a positive relationship with failure
Speaker 2: allows us to try things and understand that it's very
Speaker 2: possible that you're not going to be that good at it.
Speaker 2: But only through trying do you have a pathway of
Speaker 2: self reflection and learning. And when you learn, you grow,
Speaker 2: and when you grow, your capacity grows. When your capacity grows,
Speaker 2: life affords you more. When life affords you more, more happens,
Speaker 2: more opportunities, more taps on the shoulder, more fun, more pleasure.
Speaker 2: And so we're not really talking about that cycle that
Speaker 2: often there's a little on growth mindset, and you hear
Speaker 2: it from some of these big you know speakers, academic speakers,
Speaker 2: but actually at a functional area, you know, a a
Speaker 2: in a real give me, give me the real truth,
Speaker 2: show me how it's done. That's what we're not really
Speaker 2: talking about. And on top of that, you are not
Speaker 2: rewarded for failure. Our reward systems, rem and Benz systems
Speaker 2: are rewarded on success. And so there's a bit of
Speaker 2: a trick here.
Speaker 1: So I want to go to the brain and to
Speaker 1: come back because I actually want to talk about a
Speaker 1: little bit more about the detachment as well. Yeah, your
Speaker 1: your proposition about detaching, and I want to know what
Speaker 1: that means because it's easy for someone to say it,
Speaker 1: but what does actually mean to an individual who's listening,
Speaker 1: who thinks, okay, well, how do I detaches from these things?
Speaker 1: So that I can sort of it mean it's amount
Speaker 1: of just saying I don't care, I don't give you
Speaker 1: a shit. What is it. What is what is actual detachment?
Speaker 1: And where does it start to start off about? Does
Speaker 1: the stuff from being aware of what detach minutes and
Speaker 1: then just practicing it. But I want to go, I've
Speaker 1: got to go the break. I'll go to the bank
Speaker 1: and kind it come straight back. And that that's the
Speaker 1: stuff I wanted to sort of dig into. Then I
Speaker 1: want to sort of also, if you don't mind, is
Speaker 1: talk about your book? Does your book talk about these things?
Speaker 1: Self mastery too? Is this what self mastery is about?
Speaker 1: Is understanding these concepts? So going to go and break.
Speaker 1: I'm back from the break, and he was still a Petro.
Speaker 1: I would like to sp I prefer to call you petrol,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't matter. We'll call it petro conca. And
Speaker 1: we've been talking about this pretty amazing stuff in terms
Speaker 1: of to use a broad term that everybody over uses.
Speaker 1: But mindset and mindsets made up lots of different structures.
Speaker 2: No mindset, I know you don't function one area.
Speaker 1: But I'm just going to talk about it for the
Speaker 1: sake of this audience. What would otherwise normally be considered mindset,
Speaker 1: But it's so many substructures within that conversation on its
Speaker 1: own it's crazy. But in terms of mindset or how
Speaker 1: to shape your thoughts relative to potential failure, relative to
Speaker 1: just keep going and keep knocking on doors at a
Speaker 1: very fundamental level, and with failure always occurring or occurring
Speaker 1: a lot of the time, or no success occurring, perhaps
Speaker 1: the probably better way putting it, It doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be failure, because failure is a good way, maybe a
Speaker 1: better way looking at it is. And you tell me
Speaker 1: what you think is instead of thing about us something
Speaker 1: as a failure, And when don't we think about it
Speaker 1: is just wasn't successful? Yeah, I didn't succeed? So what
Speaker 1: if I failed? I feel a lot worse if I
Speaker 1: say should I failed? That seems to me to be
Speaker 1: a lot worse as a word that we always use
Speaker 1: as opposed to saying I didn't succeed on that occasion?
Speaker 1: How do we and you talked about detaching ourselves. They're
Speaker 1: not physically attached to something. What do you mean by
Speaker 1: that detachment? Is it a a sense?
Speaker 2: Give me the just I'm going to answer that question.
Speaker 2: Just give me the space to answer it fully. Okay,
Speaker 2: I've got a layer a little bit walk through it.
Speaker 2: Let me walk through it self. Doubt. Why do people
Speaker 2: have self doubt? What a successful people have self doubt?
Speaker 2: Why do some people have confidence and other people don't
Speaker 2: have confidence?
Speaker 1: Or a peer too?
Speaker 2: Or a peer too? Okay? These were questions I started
Speaker 2: to ask myself a few years ago before I wrote
Speaker 2: my book, because I saw a lot of it in
Speaker 2: the people that I was interviewing. From my psycho psychotherapeutic background,
Speaker 2: what we know to be true is that your ego,
Speaker 2: which is the construct of your mind based on your
Speaker 2: values and beliefs, it's the lens by which you navigate
Speaker 2: your life, is also the voice in your head. Do
Speaker 2: you have a voice in your head? Do I talk
Speaker 2: to your day?
Speaker 1: Sure of yeah?
Speaker 2: Sometimes? Okay, you've mastered it, right, But for a lot
Speaker 2: of people, they haven't mastered it. And that voice in
Speaker 2: their head, which is their ego, the voice of their ego,
Speaker 2: says things to them that they shouldn't. It says things like,
Speaker 2: you're not going to make it, no one's going to
Speaker 2: like you, you look ugly, you're fat, etc. Okay, And
Speaker 2: so I call my voice in my head Tammy. I've
Speaker 2: given her a voice, so the name, Yeah, I've given
Speaker 2: her a name. Sorry, So I spoke to Tammy this morning.
Speaker 2: I told Tammy just to stay in the car so
Speaker 2: Stella could be present with Mark today. So the ego
Speaker 2: is created over time. It takes about twenty one years
Speaker 2: for the ego to become fully evolved. The Mazzi development
Speaker 2: stages of psychologist says that between zero and seven, your
Speaker 2: values and beliefs are created, and then from seven till
Speaker 2: twelve you go through a modeling period and then your
Speaker 2: relationship period where you're fully formed at a mind level.
Speaker 2: But the most important period of time is zero to seven.
Speaker 2: And what happens during that time is your parents or
Speaker 2: the people that you are. You know that you raised you.
Speaker 2: They gift you your values and your beliefs. So if
Speaker 2: you were born into a particular religious sector, if you
Speaker 2: were born into a particular culture, your parents got divorced,
Speaker 2: somebody died, whatever happened between zero and seven has imprinted
Speaker 2: on you your values and beliefs. Now, what is a
Speaker 2: value on? What is a belief? A value is for example, money,
Speaker 2: and a belief around money is money doesn't grow on
Speaker 2: trees or easy come, easy go, or everything I touch
Speaker 2: turns to gold. Everyone has a belief system around money.
Speaker 2: Another value is sex. A belief system around sex is
Speaker 2: shouldn't have it before you're married, or if you come
Speaker 2: from a Latin American culture, is it's free, enjoy yourself.
Speaker 2: It's better be enjoyed. Right, It depends on what culture
Speaker 2: you come from.
Speaker 1: Right, although Latin American listeners, let me know, have fun.
Speaker 2: And that is a really I mean, that's quite a
Speaker 2: polarizing example. That's a very good way to describe what
Speaker 2: is a value on what is a belief? And see,
Speaker 2: we've got these belief that sit around our values, and
Speaker 2: that becomes the lens by which we operate in our life.
Speaker 2: And our lens is our ego. Now, coming back to
Speaker 2: your question, you are not your ego. You are not
Speaker 2: the lens by which you operate in your life. That
Speaker 2: lens is changeable. Sometimes that lens doesn't serve you. You see,
Speaker 2: the seed of all negative human emotions comes from the ego. Anger, sadness, guilt, shame,
Speaker 2: the experience of anxiety and depression all comes from this
Speaker 2: part of our mind, our ego, and it's given to you.
Speaker 2: So if something happened to you between that period of time,
Speaker 2: it will could possibly play out in your later years
Speaker 2: of life. An example from a corporate lenses is that
Speaker 2: I'll often get a mid thirties individual that's just about
Speaker 2: to start their executive career and something's happened. There's been
Speaker 2: an altercation at work, the amount of lost their joab
Speaker 2: or there's no connection between them and the CEO, and
Speaker 2: they rock up to my doorster and they're like, I
Speaker 2: think I need a new job. And at that point,
Speaker 2: I'm not asking them questions about their skills. And you know,
Speaker 2: you know you are unable to execute on the strategy
Speaker 2: or you know, how do you manage change and do
Speaker 2: you understand how to create a culture and environment. I'm like,
Speaker 2: tell me about yourself. Let's go back to the beginning
Speaker 2: of your life. And by the way, this is what
Speaker 2: executive search firms do. This is how they profile. They
Speaker 2: go back to the beginning of life because what happens
Speaker 2: then generally creates your leadership style. It generally creates how
Speaker 2: you operate in life. So if you need if you
Speaker 2: are experiencing these things, or if you want to make
Speaker 2: changes in your life, you have to go back to
Speaker 2: this operating model that you've created. It's kind of like
Speaker 2: a pizza base. You've got to pick off the toppings
Speaker 2: that your mum and dad have been given to you.
Speaker 2: So a question for you, actually just a demonstration. Have
Speaker 2: you ever felt sadness or guilt or that feeling of
Speaker 2: anxiety do you have? Have you ever felt any negative
Speaker 2: human emotion?
Speaker 1: Not? Really, I've never been depressed.
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about something clinical. I'm talking about happy.
Speaker 2: Let's go with a positive. If you ever feel happy, I.
Speaker 1: Don't really get happy. The only negative only emotion I
Speaker 1: really it is anger?
Speaker 2: Anger?
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, that's the only one all the rest of.
Speaker 2: All right, So let's work with anger.
Speaker 1: Average.
Speaker 2: Let's work with anger. Okay. Can you perceive when you're angry? Angry?
Speaker 1: Do I know what makes me angry?
Speaker 2: No? Can you perceive it when you're angry? Can you
Speaker 2: say it, I'm angry?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Okay. So there's an awareness inside of you that has
Speaker 2: perceived that emotion.
Speaker 1: But to do that I alread to answer a psychiatrist.
Speaker 1: So I went, I did therapy for all this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good, okay, So we need to teach people how
Speaker 2: to do that for themselves. So the fact is is
Speaker 2: that that anger sits in your ego. But the fact
Speaker 2: that you're aware of it is that there's an awareness
Speaker 2: within you that can perceive that anger. There's a deeper
Speaker 2: awareness and intelligence. So what we're trying to do is
Speaker 2: we're trying to separate the difference between that which is
Speaker 2: ego and that which is your awareness. And when you
Speaker 2: can do that, when you can accept that that which
Speaker 2: is your operating model of life, which is given to
Speaker 2: you from your parents, from your family. First of all,
Speaker 2: you didn't ask for it was given to you, and
Speaker 2: you can change it over time. The aware it means
Speaker 2: that you can detach from that, you can become you
Speaker 2: can sit in your seat of consciousness and be the
Speaker 2: observer of that anger. It is not the same thing.
Speaker 2: You and your ego are not the same thing. So
Speaker 2: coming back to your question, how do you detach? First
Speaker 2: of all, for you to be able to attach, you
Speaker 2: have to be aware. This is just fundamental basic psychology.
Speaker 2: One oh one ego, you do different things. Awareness that
Speaker 2: can observe the feeling. That is actually what we work
Speaker 2: with in psychotherapy and it's what we need to start
Speaker 2: teaching everybody out there. Basic like getting a glass of
Speaker 2: water and having a drink, You've got to be able
Speaker 2: to understand that which is ego versus that which is you,
Speaker 2: and how to detach from that, because if that is
Speaker 2: a parasite in your mind, the worst parasite is a
Speaker 2: negative mind. By the way, If that's if that ego
Speaker 2: is running a system of thinking that is not serving you,
Speaker 2: and you the consciousness, the awareness is enmeshed in that,
Speaker 2: then we have the epidemic that we are experiencing right now,
Speaker 2: which is the mental health one.
Speaker 1: So what would you say to an employer on what
Speaker 1: you just said? What would an employer take from that?
Speaker 1: And what would an employee take for you just said
Speaker 1: so much? Let's start with employer.
Speaker 2: Start with an employee.
Speaker 1: I hate the word, but doesn't matter. I just hate
Speaker 1: the word employer. Sounds terrible, but.
Speaker 2: Well, look, every employee, generally speaking, every employer is also employee.
Speaker 1: Well to me, everybody works for themselves, and I call
Speaker 1: an employee because there's a different sort of reward system
Speaker 1: and there's regulations around it. But employees still work for
Speaker 1: themselves the end of the day. They're giving you their
Speaker 1: time and effort, skills in reach over money, and they
Speaker 1: are employers giving them a seat, space and opportunity in
Speaker 1: return for their time. So that's yeah, anyway, it doesn't
Speaker 1: really matter? Manager, manager, So what would you say to
Speaker 1: a manager of people or someone who wants to recruit
Speaker 1: people into their organization from what you just said? What
Speaker 1: do they need to know? From what you just said?
Speaker 2: First of all, a disengaged workforce costs our global population
Speaker 2: nine trillion US dollars a year. It's about nine percent
Speaker 2: of the global GDP.
Speaker 1: Is that about productivity or.
Speaker 2: Audibly disengage employees?
Speaker 1: What's that mean? So?
Speaker 2: A disengaged employe, according to Gallup survey, is linked to
Speaker 2: individuals that are experiencing any given point in time and
Speaker 2: go sadness, skilled anxiety, and stress.
Speaker 1: Right outside of the office, maybe in their private.
Speaker 2: Life, in their life. Just there's no I really think
Speaker 2: there's such a thing as separation between life and work life.
Speaker 2: I think it's pretty a mesh these days realistically. So
Speaker 2: in life life, those according to Gallop, those that have
Speaker 2: been experiencing those five negative human emotions, anyone or ale, anyone,
Speaker 2: any one of them. I mean, each one has a
Speaker 2: separate line item and has a separate statistic attached to it.
Speaker 2: But if we can kind of grab them as a collective,
Speaker 2: eighty to ninety percent are actively disengaged in their job.
Speaker 2: So if you have an individual that is experiencing these things,
Speaker 2: it's very likely that they will be in some form disengaged.
Speaker 2: In the same report, it's said that people that were
Speaker 2: thriving and happy were seventy to ninety percent engage actively
Speaker 2: engaged in their job. So what we have here is
Speaker 2: a question is a chicken or the egg? As an employer,
Speaker 2: is it my role to make people happy? No?
Speaker 1: Not possibly either, No, not possible either.
Speaker 2: However, is it my role to deliver the strategy? And
Speaker 2: is it my role to deliver to the shareholders the
Speaker 2: P and L? And is it my role to deliver
Speaker 2: what it is in my job description? It? Yes, it is. Okay, Well,
Speaker 2: now what you're dealing with is you're dealing with a
Speaker 2: landscape where people need help. And one in two Australians
Speaker 2: will experience some form of mental health episode in their
Speaker 2: lifetime and one in five Australians experience it at least
Speaker 2: once on a yearly basis. And so you have to
Speaker 2: be dealing with these new inputs. These are the new inputs.
Speaker 1: So we have to teach people employers what just call it, managers.
Speaker 2: Managers and employees. We have to teach people that stress
Speaker 2: that they're experiencing. They can manage it if they know,
Speaker 2: if they learn how. And I'm not talking about exercise
Speaker 2: and meditation and you know, you know, having kind of
Speaker 2: healthy habits. I'm talking deeper than that. I'm talking about
Speaker 2: becoming learning the inputs of becoming your own psychotherapist. So
Speaker 2: you know, Oh, I'm experiencing a bit of fear right now.
Speaker 2: What can I do about this?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Okay, I can breathe out longer than I breathe in,
Speaker 2: and I can activate my vagus nerve and just decompress
Speaker 2: a little bit, so I can bring that back in.
Speaker 2: It's the individual's responsibility to manage themselves. But we've got
Speaker 2: a collective voice out there, which is my job's crap
Speaker 2: or you know, I don't like my manager. It's two
Speaker 2: sides of the story.
Speaker 1: So but should do employers have any obligation around this? So? Yes,
Speaker 1: So I'm an employer and I've got some people, and
Speaker 1: I can notice that there shoulders are slumped over. It's
Speaker 1: a bit of body language or something like that, and
Speaker 1: they're not. They just don't seem to be themselves. What's
Speaker 1: my obligation? What should I be doing? Shall be saying? You, Okay,
Speaker 1: what was the deal?
Speaker 2: So, I mean, I actually can't say from a legal
Speaker 2: perspective what their obligation is, but yes, they have an
Speaker 2: obligation to run business. Yeah, it's got to roll up
Speaker 2: as a sea. You first got to decide that mental
Speaker 2: well being is a priority, a strategic priority, and therefore,
Speaker 2: if it's a strategic priority, it gets written down as
Speaker 2: something that you're going to invest in. You allocate funds
Speaker 2: to this particular area. Because if you understand that this
Speaker 2: is important, then what happens is is that you won't
Speaker 2: get to a point. It's less likely that you will
Speaker 2: get to a point where you will have a disengaged employee.
Speaker 2: A disengaged employee can be influenced by an engaged manager.
Speaker 2: So the advice to employers out there is invest in
Speaker 2: your managers. Teacher managers how to deal with this. Hrbrid
Speaker 2: Business Review published an article in August of last year
Speaker 2: stating that for us to do this, for us to
Speaker 2: change the connection and the engagement of people in the workforce,
Speaker 2: the one thing that we've got to do is we've
Speaker 2: got to teach our middle managers how to be cognitive
Speaker 2: behavioral therapists. Quite unquote teach them, so CBT teach them
Speaker 2: neuro linguistic programming. And I couldn't believe my ears. I
Speaker 2: couldn't believe what I was reading. Yes, the world has
Speaker 2: changed and we've got to change our skills. The World
Speaker 2: Economic Forum publishes a report every year called Skills of
Speaker 2: the Future. In twenty twenty two, a new skill landed
Speaker 2: on the top ten skills list. That new skill was
Speaker 2: self management self mastery. This year twenty twenty four, six
Speaker 2: out of the top ten skills that we need for
Speaker 2: the future, which is the future for World Economic Forum
Speaker 2: is five years from now, six of the top ten
Speaker 2: were self mastery skills. And so what's happening is is
Speaker 2: that we need to learn this as a hard skill
Speaker 2: like picking up a phone and knowing how to create
Speaker 2: an app or create a podcast. And so I'm out
Speaker 2: to normalize it. My full time job is the see
Speaker 2: of a recruitment agency, but I do this as this
Speaker 2: is my life's work.
Speaker 1: Give me a broad explanation that your life's word meaning
Speaker 1: outside of your business, this is something that you have
Speaker 1: ambitions about making or maybe perhaps not changing, but adopting.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I wrote a book called Stoneheart, Light Heart.
Speaker 2: The Intelligence of Self Mastery, Stoneheart, Light Heart, The Intelligence
Speaker 2: of Self Mastery, and I wrote that book, and that
Speaker 2: book has been recognized by multiple universities, and it also
Speaker 2: got me my honorary fellowship at Western Sydney UNI. And
Speaker 2: the universities are really progressive, actually very progressive. They are
Speaker 2: teaching these ideas now in business school and I'm a
Speaker 2: guest lecturer at many business schools at the moment, teaching
Speaker 2: our younger generation how to master their ego, how to
Speaker 2: detach from their ego, how to build a healthy relationship
Speaker 2: with failure, and how to cultivate confidence. At the end
Speaker 2: of that, I guess the story I can share with
Speaker 2: you with this book and why it's become my life's
Speaker 2: I really think it's, you know, the good work that
Speaker 2: I'm going to do in my life. As I wrote it,
Speaker 2: and an executive from Chart Accounts Australia picked up the
Speaker 2: book and read it and said this is I love
Speaker 2: this book and I'm going to bring this into our community.
Speaker 2: And they've got one hundred and thirty five thousand members
Speaker 2: in Australia globally actually, and so over the last couple
Speaker 2: of years I've been working with them and I do
Speaker 2: so many keynote speeches for them, and they givet my
Speaker 2: book to so many of their members, so many people
Speaker 2: in the audience. And then I was so grateful to
Speaker 2: this guy, who's really, you know, taking this work forward
Speaker 2: with me. And then one day I was at Western
Speaker 2: Sydney UNI and I was doing some work with them,
Speaker 2: and the dean of the business school dear speech, and
Speaker 2: then I was mixed up. I was a keynote, I
Speaker 2: was a guest lecturer, and I did my lecture on
Speaker 2: self mastering. At the end, he came up to me
Speaker 2: and he said, excuse me, I talk to you so yes,
Speaker 2: my name Stella. He goes, I know who you are.
Speaker 2: He goes, I was given your book eight months ago.
Speaker 2: And I said, oh, wonderful. And he says, I need
Speaker 2: to tell you something. He goes, I'm an economist, I'm
Speaker 2: a professor, and I'm the dean of this business school.
Speaker 2: Your book changed my life, said how so? He said,
Speaker 2: all my life I really wondered who I was, and
Speaker 2: your book gave me a pathway to integrate who I
Speaker 2: thought I was and who I was. And now I
Speaker 2: know why I am who I am, and I feel
Speaker 2: so comfortable with that I want to let you know
Speaker 2: that your book is on my bedside table, and every
Speaker 2: time I go overseas with my job, I take your
Speaker 2: book with me. And I started to cry. And I
Speaker 2: started to cry because it was the individual who gave
Speaker 2: me that feedback that made me realize that this is
Speaker 2: my life's work. And so I now create reels on
Speaker 2: this I record, you know, for an hour every week.
Speaker 2: I don't make money from it. You make money from books,
Speaker 2: not even a cent, okay, But I give my time
Speaker 2: now to this area because I believe that in this
Speaker 2: crazy world where people are mentally sick, that they must
Speaker 2: learn this one tool, because I think that he can
Speaker 2: remarkably change.
Speaker 1: Has mastery that one tool.
Speaker 2: Well self master is the umbrella that actually talks to
Speaker 2: mastering the division of you and ego. You've got to
Speaker 2: be able to.
Speaker 1: Do that so putting ourselves away from our ego. So
Speaker 1: sometimes I remember of many years I read a book.
Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of the auth. He as
Speaker 1: a neurologist, but it was he wrote a book with
Speaker 1: an illustrator like a comic strip illustrator, and the book
Speaker 1: was called Neurocomic. And he actually explains in an illustrative
Speaker 1: way with some narrative, how we build a story up
Speaker 1: about ourselves neurologically, in our neurological system, and then that
Speaker 1: story keeps getting affirmed by things we do and people
Speaker 1: that we meet, and we keep building up the story,
Speaker 1: which is, like what you're saying, the ego, that's how
Speaker 1: I am, and we actually think that's the person we are.
Speaker 1: And then when we think about plasticity, the plasticity of
Speaker 1: the brain or the satellitar system within the brain, that is,
Speaker 1: you can actually change who you are as long as
Speaker 1: you recognize that this is just a story about yourself exactly.
Speaker 1: And appeal often say to me, well, you know, once age,
Speaker 1: you weren't a partner of chart accounts. Then you become
Speaker 1: a partner of a law firm. Then you became a developer,
Speaker 1: and then you became a finance business. Biba, now you
Speaker 1: a podcast because I don't have a view on myself
Speaker 1: because I read this book like thirty odd years ago,
Speaker 1: and I knew nothing at that stage, wasn't I was
Speaker 1: just interested. I knew nothing by that stage about plasticity
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But you're right, I mean I
Speaker 1: was actually becoming quite clear to me in my mind,
Speaker 1: the ability to reinvent yourself. Let's call it is about
Speaker 1: detaching yourself from who you think you are. Yes, you
Speaker 1: call it the ego, let's call it. You know my story? Yes?
Speaker 1: And your parents lay down the plank for your story
Speaker 1: in the beginning. I mean you have done it. You
Speaker 1: were going to be a doctor, and then you're reinventing
Speaker 1: yourself to become a salesperson. Then you reinvent yourself, etc.
Speaker 1: In other words, flexibility. And people often say how do
Speaker 1: I remain relevant?
Speaker 2: Not me? Not how Mark grew ultimate strategic question, how.
Speaker 1: Do you remain relevant as or how can they remain relevant? Well,
Speaker 1: the first thing is to your phraseology is you've got
Speaker 1: to detach yourself from who, your ego or your story
Speaker 1: and look at what stories are relevant out there? What
Speaker 1: are people looking for? You know, what they want to
Speaker 1: talk about? Exactly where they going with stuff? Yes? And
Speaker 1: so I think that's fascinating. So I don't remember the
Speaker 1: name of your book. I know it's in the show notes,
Speaker 1: but could you just tell me the name of your
Speaker 1: book again? And where can people get it? Stoneheart, light Heart,
Speaker 1: the Stone Heart, Lion Heart, light Stoneheart, Lightheart.
Speaker 2: The Intelligence of self mastery and when it can be
Speaker 2: purchased globally from every single book to Angus and Robinson, Amazon,
Speaker 2: It's on Spotify, it's an audio board, it's a digital
Speaker 2: you can get it everywhere. It's sold everywhere.
Speaker 1: And I know you've said this is your life work,
Speaker 1: but outside of your real business, which is matching people up.
Speaker 1: But what about if people ask questions about it? Can
Speaker 1: they get you on a Is there a Facebook page
Speaker 1: or is there an Instagram page where they can? Actually
Speaker 1: you're not going to talk to me individually, but no.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, I've got I've got an Instagram
Speaker 2: page with pretty big following. Actually, I've got a TikTok
Speaker 2: page LinkedIn. I publish all of my work on all socials.
Speaker 1: And so where what does that call? Now, you're let's
Speaker 1: call it your Instagram page.
Speaker 2: For example Stella Petro contra Stella dot or just still
Speaker 2: Stella my full.
Speaker 1: Name pe I should say it's p E T R
Speaker 1: O U correct the C O N C H A correct. So,
Speaker 1: because I'd imagine what you're doing with your content is
Speaker 1: you're actually sort of probably asking questions that people haven't
Speaker 1: asked you or may have asked you but you just
Speaker 1: decide in a content says, well that's good one. I
Speaker 1: might just play around with that that whatever that is,
Speaker 1: and do you talk to it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I talk to it, you know. I get emails
Speaker 2: all all the time from people. My socials are huge, actually,
Speaker 2: and I create content specifically for them.
Speaker 1: And there's no money in it.
Speaker 2: As you say, no, no, no, this is this is
Speaker 2: totally a passion project history anyway.
Speaker 1: So people are going to be looking Instagram for all
Speaker 1: sorts of things. Perhaps if they're got a question, or
Speaker 1: they're feeling a little bit self doubt, or they're whatever
Speaker 1: it is, that's the sort of thing they should be doing.
Speaker 2: I am writing a second book the moment. I'll publish
Speaker 2: it next year called self Mastery at Work. And I'm
Speaker 2: halfway through producing a course that I'm recording at the
Speaker 2: moment so people can do this work in their own
Speaker 2: private time. I'm doing a lot of workshops for large
Speaker 2: listed businesses at the moment. They are training people, are training,
Speaker 2: they're training their staff in this. They're realizing we need
Speaker 2: to train, train, train, train, train.
Speaker 1: Well, big companies and employees, if you're looking for a
Speaker 1: way of improving your your ability to live a better life.
Speaker 1: Not a necessarily happy life, but a better life. And
Speaker 1: it'd be corporations. If you're looking to have a better business,
Speaker 1: get on board with this. Let's call it recognizing understanding mental.
Speaker 2: Health and it's connection to productivity and success in business.
Speaker 1: For success yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever that might be.
Speaker 1: Stella petro Conca, thanks very much. Thanks man, really appreciate it.