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Speaker 1: Apoday production.

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Speaker 2: We begin today by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the

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Speaker 2: land on which we gather today and pay our respects

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Speaker 2: to their elders past and present. We extend that respect

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Speaker 2: to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people's here today. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the Grow and Glow Podcast. I'm Ashy, I'm Kiara.

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Speaker 2: This is a podcast where we learn, laugh, and level

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Speaker 2: up together. Let's go deep, let.

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Speaker 1: The emotions flow, and find the lessons to grow and Glow.

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Speaker 1: Nothing is off the table with Grow and Glow, and

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Speaker 1: we're here to be your expander.

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Speaker 2: Hello, guys, welcome back to the show today. This has

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Speaker 2: been a requested episode.

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Speaker 1: It has. Yeah, we talk about this a lot and

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Speaker 1: we're still like learning about it ourselves. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 1: so interesting, so interesting.

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Speaker 2: It makes you understand yourself so much more and hold

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Speaker 2: more compassion for yourself because a lot of this stems

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Speaker 2: from our childhood.

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Speaker 1: Definitely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So all the attachment styles, So we're gonna explain what

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Speaker 1: attachment styles are, go over each of them and break

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Speaker 1: them down in white sized chunks so you can understand

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Speaker 1: the foundation of them all. And then obviously, if you

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Speaker 1: want to learn more there's so much online different youtubes

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Speaker 1: and podcasts, whatever, but this is a good starting point

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Speaker 1: to actually understand them. And there's also a test you

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Speaker 1: can do online. However, I was going to hunt for

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Speaker 1: another test because I wasn't really sold on this test.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: For me, particularly because I didn't grow up with my father,

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Speaker 1: I just felt like it doesn't represent where I'm at

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Speaker 1: right now, but it represented when he was in my

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Speaker 1: life because I feel like I've done a lot of growth.

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Speaker 1: And these attachment styles, like anything like your love languages, etc.

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Speaker 1: They can ebb and flow and change. It's not linear,

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Speaker 1: it's not like that's what you're going to be forever.

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Speaker 1: They can change depending on the relationships that you have,

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Speaker 1: who's in your life, what's happened in your childhood, how

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Speaker 1: much healing you do, how much understanding you have around it.

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Speaker 1: So don't get attached to oh, that's just who I am.

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Speaker 1: It's not your identity, definitely not. It's just part of

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Speaker 1: you know, your journey, and it can change and it's

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Speaker 1: different for different people as well, which we've learned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and even like Ash and I were chatting at

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Speaker 2: dinner last night about it a bit, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: WHOA like at that point in my life, I was

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Speaker 2: like that, And at that point in my life, I

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Speaker 2: was like that. So I can definitely look back and

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Speaker 2: reflect and see it so many different times in my

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Speaker 2: life where I've been in different places, which is really.

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Speaker 1: Cool, so freaking cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, attachment styles are typically formed during our childhood and

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Speaker 1: through our parents or our caregivers, through all of our interactions,

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Speaker 1: and then they can influence our adult relationships and behavior.

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Speaker 1: Our attachment styles really can impact how strong our relationships

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Speaker 1: are or how much we struggle to maintain and create

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Speaker 1: beautifully connected relationships. But the key is to have awareness

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Speaker 1: around your own and it can really help you navigate

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Speaker 1: relationships and have compassion for yourself and why you are

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Speaker 1: the way that you are in relationships, but not only relationships,

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Speaker 1: also your friendships as well. However, like most of these things,

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Speaker 1: they can change depending on the people that we have

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Speaker 1: relationships with and how much we work on ourselves, get

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Speaker 1: therapy and even have positive experiences in relationships can alter

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Speaker 1: how that we show up in the next relationship. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so let's get straight into it.

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Speaker 2: So first one is secure attachment, and that is basically

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Speaker 2: somebody who is comfortable with being independent. That's what kind

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Speaker 2: of pops into my mind. Someone who's you know, secure

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Speaker 2: within themselves, secure within the relationships.

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Speaker 1: They tend to have really long lasting, healthy relationships because

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Speaker 1: they feel secure.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: I don't see them as hyper independent though, because I

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Speaker 1: feel like they're very trusting. Yeah, like they're trusting to

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Speaker 1: be in a relationship. They trust that person, there's no

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Speaker 1: anxiety around it. Therefore their relationships are really healthily bonded.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not hyper independent, but they're independent.

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Speaker 1: They're not codependent on it. No, I don't know, but

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Speaker 1: they're not hyper independent either, because they have the trust

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Speaker 1: to be in a relationship with someone else. Yes, they're secure, secure,

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Speaker 1: secure in their relationships, safe and secure. Yeah. The next

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Speaker 1: one is anxious attachment. The people that have this attachment style,

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Speaker 1: they really fear being rejected and fear being abandoned and

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Speaker 1: also feel like they're never good enough and they need

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Speaker 1: a lot from the people around them. If you're an

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Speaker 1: anxious attachment in a relationship, you need a lot of validation,

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Speaker 1: you need a lot of reassurance, and you're like where

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Speaker 1: you're at, what are you doing? And like you need

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Speaker 1: a lot from that other person, And that can come

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Speaker 1: from having caregivers or parents that were really not emotionally

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Speaker 1: available to you and you didn't get your needs met

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Speaker 1: as a little girl or boy. That's where it kind

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Speaker 1: of stems.

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Speaker 2: From, definitely. So the next one is avoidant, and it's

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Speaker 2: basically the opposite. I feel like an attachment. It's like

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Speaker 2: you don't want to get too close. You step away

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Speaker 2: from relationships when they start to get really serious because

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Speaker 2: you don't feel comfortable, you don't feel like you're worthy

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Speaker 2: of love. And again coming back from a little child

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Speaker 2: growing up who hasn't had that emotional support around them,

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Speaker 2: maybe hasn't felt that love before, so it feels really

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Speaker 2: uncomfortable for them. So as soon as things start to

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Speaker 2: get serious or certain things happen, they tend to kind

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Speaker 2: of back away.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sin as they get too close, it's like this

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Speaker 1: big and visible war goes up and they're like, bang

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Speaker 1: on a second, I'm going to close you off here,

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Speaker 1: or like start cutting you off, or like pull away

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Speaker 1: and just avoid the relationship interactions because it doesn't feel safe. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I suppose they do, too, have a bit of fear

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Speaker 1: of what can happen because they're not fully trusted in,

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Speaker 1: but rather avoid and that feels more safer to them, definitely. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they never want to depend on anyone else, so they

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Speaker 1: are definitely more hyper independent being on their own. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that feels safer.

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Speaker 2: So disorganized is kind of a mixture between anxious and avoidant.

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Speaker 2: So it's somebody who's not secure, but will go through

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Speaker 2: phases of like one if you've really attached to someone,

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Speaker 2: and then another phase of being like oh no, I'm

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Speaker 2: getting too close, and then avoid So it's kind of

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Speaker 2: a person that's got a mixture of the two together.

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Speaker 1: So interesting, isn't now? Yeah. So a lot of the

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Speaker 1: time people with this attachment style had inconsistent caregiving in

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Speaker 1: the childhood, which then makes them really confused about relationships

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Speaker 1: and not know actually what feels good or bad to them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so they just get really confused, really frazzled, and yet

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Speaker 1: go in and out and like ugh, they're not very

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Speaker 1: grounded and clear on what they want.

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Speaker 2: Start to give everything and then like, hang on a second,

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Speaker 2: This is scary pull.

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Speaker 1: Yes, for adults with disorganized attachment, the partner, the relationship

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Speaker 1: themselves are often the source of both desire and fear. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how fascinating is that?

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Speaker 2: That's so interesting?

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Speaker 1: So on the one hand, fearful avoidant people do want

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Speaker 1: intimacy and closeness, but on the other hand they experience

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Speaker 1: troubles trusting and depending on others. Yeah, so confusing that one.

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Speaker 1: So confusing, really hard one, I feel. Yeah. People with

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Speaker 1: this attachment style also often struggle with identifying and regulating

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Speaker 1: their own emotions and tend to avoid strong emotional attachment

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Speaker 1: due to their intense fear of getting hurt.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to touch on this as well because I

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Speaker 2: thought this is really interesting what I saw. So it's

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Speaker 2: when to worry about your attachment style because you might

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Speaker 2: be in a place and be like, it's not an

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Speaker 2: issue in your life and it's fun, and be aware

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Speaker 2: of where you're at and have so much knowledge around

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Speaker 2: yourself that it feels okay. But then this is kind

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Speaker 2: of like when to start going okay, Do I need

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Speaker 2: to make some changes?

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: So chances are that many of us don't fully identify

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Speaker 2: with the traits of secure attachment. Even if we think

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Speaker 2: we have stable relationships, that might be patterns in our

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Speaker 2: behavior that keep bothering us or making ours stress or unhappy. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: some of us will recognize ourselves in the traits of

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Speaker 2: one of the three insecure attachment types. If you identify

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Speaker 2: with one of the insecure attachment styles in relationships, it

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Speaker 2: is highly recommended that you actively address the issues through

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Speaker 2: increasing self awareness, working on self development, and if necessary,

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Speaker 2: seeking psychological help. If you leave it unaddressed or strongly

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Speaker 2: repressed as well, you can become really unstable and it

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Speaker 2: can cause so much anxiety, depression and other mental health

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Speaker 2: issues too. And something else that I learned that I

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Speaker 2: found really fascinating is even if you are in a

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Speaker 2: secure attachment style, you have a second one. So when

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Speaker 2: life gets tough or you are triggered, you slip back

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Speaker 2: into your secondary one, which is really cool too. So

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Speaker 2: even if you take the quiz and you're like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 2: that's where I'm at, You've still got to be mindful

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Speaker 2: and constantly aware and being like, okay, am I slipping

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Speaker 2: back into that little girl that's feeling scared or that

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Speaker 2: little girl that's like stepping away. So yeah, it's such

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Speaker 2: a cool thing to learn about. I've got so many

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Speaker 2: people to take the quiz around me because it made

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Speaker 2: me understand like Kurt's mum so much more. Maybe I'm

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Speaker 2: stay Kurt so much more. Holy crap, the amount I

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Speaker 2: learned from myself through doing this was amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so me personally, I found it really spot on

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Speaker 2: for like me, Kurt, and Deb. But I think your

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Speaker 2: situation is very different too, because you are not a

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Speaker 2: normal quote unquote normal situation, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: Like you didn't have your father figure in your life.

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Speaker 1: But that affected my attachment styles. But the test was

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Speaker 1: more like the questions of like if my father's even

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Speaker 1: in my life now, it's like, do you go to him?

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Speaker 1: Can you run to him? Do you feel safe with him?

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know. Obviously not because he's not there,

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Speaker 1: But I've also done so much work around their upset

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Speaker 1: that that caused me in my teens in early twenties

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Speaker 1: that there's no attachment at all to that anymore. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So it har doesn't resonate because it's he's not actually

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Speaker 1: in my life.

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Speaker 2: But then what happened for me, which I'll dig in too,

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Speaker 2: is like with my parents, right, I might have had

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Speaker 2: like severely anxious or severely avoidant, but then my relationships

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Speaker 2: now have made me become so much more secure within myself.

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Speaker 2: So basically it shows how much our childhood really can

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Speaker 2: shape us and the situations that we're brought up in.

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Speaker 2: Like me feeling it out, it was a bit of

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Speaker 2: a tough one, like I was feeling it out and

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Speaker 2: like some of these questions are making me feel a

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Speaker 2: little bit like ooh, you know. Basically, there's four categories

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Speaker 2: when you fill out the quiz. There's one that is

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Speaker 2: all related to the mother figure in your life. Then

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Speaker 2: there's one that's related all to the father figure in

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Speaker 2: your life. There's one if you are in a partnership

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Speaker 2: that's dedicated all to your partnership, and there's one on

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Speaker 2: basically everyone else, like the outside perception of you and

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Speaker 2: how you feel showing up in the world as a whole.

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Speaker 2: So my test overall came back secure, but it was

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Speaker 2: really interesting because it made me kind of sit back

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Speaker 2: and reflects. And also just by looking at the quiz,

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Speaker 2: I was like, if I didn't have Curt in my

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Speaker 2: life for all those amount of years, I would be

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Speaker 2: disorgan I think I would have avoidant in there, and

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Speaker 2: I think I would have anxious attachment as well. But

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Speaker 2: he's helped bring me so much love and security that

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Speaker 2: I guess I've learned to trust again, and even my

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Speaker 2: friendships in my life. I feel like the friendships in

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Speaker 2: my life have have brought me so much healing and

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Speaker 2: so much closure. But I was even saying to Ashley,

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Speaker 2: like we're talking about when we were younger, and I said,

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Speaker 2: I feel like all the way through, like when I

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Speaker 2: was younger, I was super avoidant. I didn't really get

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Speaker 2: super close to friends. I would get close enough to

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Speaker 2: like get invited to like parties and things do that,

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Speaker 2: but I would never or very rarely get like super

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Speaker 2: duper close. And it's because I was just literally afraid

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Speaker 2: of somebody letting me down. And then I also have

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Speaker 2: definitely seen myself over the years. I think once Kurt

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Speaker 2: and I started to get super committed, so like when

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Speaker 2: we first got our house and stuff like that, eb

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Speaker 2: and flow out of anxious because I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: now we're at a point where this is really serious,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like I'm relying on him for this, I'm

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Speaker 2: relying him to show up as a good dad. I'm

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Speaker 2: relying for that. So there's been moments I'm like, oh out,

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Speaker 2: dip in it out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I feel like now like I do feel in a

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Speaker 2: really good place, and it's just really crazy to see

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Speaker 2: how much it can change and how even big life experiences,

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Speaker 2: like if you were tomorrow deceived by somebody that you

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Speaker 2: love so deeply, that's going to knock it. That's going

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Speaker 2: to hurt you, that's going to hurt that work that

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Speaker 2: you've done. But it just made me feel so much

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Speaker 2: compassion for myself, and I think I got to the

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Speaker 2: end and I was like, Wow, it's just a really

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Speaker 2: cool reflection. And then, like I said, Kurt's mum did

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Speaker 2: the test as well, and I won't speak about it

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Speaker 2: because obviously it's a personal thing, but just looking at

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Speaker 2: her and like hearing her upbringing and like what hers was,

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Speaker 2: just seeing it all, I was like, that's really fascinating,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like I really kind of got to

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Speaker 2: understand her more even just by learning about it upbringing.

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Speaker 2: Because of the prompter questions, I was like, is that

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Speaker 2: what it was like? She's like, yeah, that's what it was.

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Speaker 2: Like It's like, wow, so cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the test if you've had both parents

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Speaker 1: in your life, it would be relevant. But for me,

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Speaker 1: all the questions about my father, I was like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah, do I run? No, I don't have

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Speaker 1: him to run to, like even if he was here,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I would feel safe, Like no,

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Speaker 1: So they all had to be on that end of

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Speaker 1: the scale. But I was like, they're not really true

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Speaker 1: because I don't really know. But it was cool just

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Speaker 1: to read up and study more of this, and I

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Speaker 1: feel like growing up, I've definitely been anxious with relationships

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Speaker 1: with friendships, anxious attachment. That's the one I most related to.

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Speaker 1: But however, the same thing being with Steve for sixteen

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Speaker 1: years now, Like I giggle because I'm like, I'm so secure.

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Speaker 1: I feel so secure with him. I feel like over

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Speaker 1: the last couple of years, I've had awareness around my

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Speaker 1: anxious attachment to friendships and I've really grown through that

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Speaker 1: now and now I feel really secure. Yeah, but that's

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Speaker 1: had to go through some friendship like breakdowns or just

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Speaker 1: growing apart and realizing, like how hard I found that

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Speaker 1: even if nothing's happened, they're not having them in my life,

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Speaker 1: or it's changing and not being in contact as much

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Speaker 1: or whatever. That was a trends for me to go through.

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Speaker 1: And having an understanding about these attachment styles helped me

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Speaker 1: have compassion for myself and just I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: found it easy to get through once I understood all

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Speaker 1: of this, because it's like, why do I feel so

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Speaker 1: sad and they don't seem to give a shit? Or like,

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Speaker 1: why is this weighing me down so much? And it's

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Speaker 1: because I probably didn't even feel secure within myself. But

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Speaker 1: over the last couple of years, I feel like I've

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Speaker 1: just done so much immense growth on myself that I

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Speaker 1: feel really secure with myself, which helps me feel secure

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Speaker 1: in my other relationships. Plus I feel like the older

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Speaker 1: you get, you just do have more grounded, connected, beautiful,

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Speaker 1: safe relationships. So I feel like overall I'm secure now,

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Speaker 1: but definitely growing up was anxious and then the disorganized.

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Speaker 1: I can see over the time, if I went super anxious,

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Speaker 1: I would then go into disorganized of like avoid because

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get hurt. And there was times

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Speaker 1: over the years in my twenties where I felt used

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Speaker 1: by people, And I know that's a bit of mentality

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Speaker 1: and it's a story and that's not necessarily the truth.

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Speaker 1: But after feeling new by someone, I would then go avoidant. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I can't get too close because they only

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Speaker 1: want my money, they only want my following, they only

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Speaker 1: want the fame I can bring. That's once again, not

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Speaker 1: the truth, just thought processes that went through my head.

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Speaker 1: But I can see how I pulled back and went

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Speaker 1: to avoidant. Yeah, so like I don't want that to

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Speaker 1: happen again. That hurt too much.

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Speaker 2: And also you can probably see too, like having a

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Speaker 2: step back. If someone's more in their attachment and someone's

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Speaker 2: more on their avoidant, it could really push each other

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Speaker 2: more into each other's so like somebody been like I

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Speaker 2: need you or I need you to feel company and

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Speaker 2: they're like, no, it's too much, too much, So you

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Speaker 2: can really see how it can make relationships clash or

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Speaker 2: where they might be feeling difficult or hard if you're

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Speaker 2: both leaning into that yeah, and needing to do the

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Speaker 2: work to progress through it.

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Speaker 1: Definitely. Megsy always talks about this with her attachment style

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Speaker 1: and my attachment style are like really different. We've had

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Speaker 1: really to help me just learn and understand more because

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Speaker 1: in situations where I'm like, oh, I'm really sad about

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Speaker 1: this and she's like, oh, I would have avoided that,

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Speaker 1: like you know, whereas I'm like when to talk about

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Speaker 1: it and I want to get closure and like let's

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Speaker 1: come up with answers and like how are you feeling,

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Speaker 1: and like checking in and she's just like avoid. You know,

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting and so cool when you understand it

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Speaker 1: once again, not only have the compassion for yourself, but

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Speaker 1: when you know your partner's attachment style when they are

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Speaker 1: like say, for example, great example for me and Steve,

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Speaker 1: when we first got together, I used to travel a lot.

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Speaker 1: He had past relationships that had been not faithful, so

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Speaker 1: when I used to go overseas, he was anxious attachment.

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Speaker 1: He would be really triggered and I needed a lot

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Speaker 1: more contact and vice versa. The same with me. I've

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Speaker 1: never been cheated on, but just because I grew up

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Speaker 1: with not feeling secure with my home life and my stepdad,

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Speaker 1: I definitely was anxious towards Steve. So if people wasn't around,

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Speaker 1: or he went out or he went overseas, I definitely

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Speaker 1: felt anxious and needed more from him. Whereas now if

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Speaker 1: he go over seas, I'm like, see, yeah, have the

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Speaker 1: best time, and like when it calls, I love it,

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Speaker 1: But I definitely don't need that. I do not need

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Speaker 1: that at all. And it's so cool to come out

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Speaker 1: the other side of that because living in an anxious

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Speaker 1: state by any means, it doesn't feel need. Yeah, it's exhausting.

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Speaker 1: You just don't feel happy, and then you carry guilt

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Speaker 1: and shame around it. I don't know, it doesn't feel good.

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Speaker 1: So I really hope us unpacking this today and we've

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Speaker 1: tried to really simplify it because it can be quite

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Speaker 1: overwhelming to learn all of things, like we're still learning

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Speaker 1: about it, but once you understand it, yeah, you just

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Speaker 1: have so much more compassion for where you're at, where

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Speaker 1: you've come from, your parents, where they're at, your partners

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Speaker 1: where they're at, and you can work through it together.

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Speaker 2: And also knowing you can change, you can evolve. Even

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Speaker 2: if you're listening to this going like, oh man, I

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Speaker 2: feel like i'm a bit this er, I'm a bit

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Speaker 2: that it's like, well well done. First of all, like

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Speaker 2: round of applause. Yes, you've acknowledged it. I was there,

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Speaker 2: And now you're like, hey, what work do I need

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Speaker 2: to do to make this girl feel safe again? How

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Speaker 2: can I make her feel safe and secure within myself

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Speaker 2: and give her the love, the connection and everything that

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Speaker 2: she needs, Because at the end of the day, we

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Speaker 2: can only do that for ourselves.

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Speaker 1: That's the inner child work. Hey, we're watching videos last

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Speaker 1: night on this. It's like when you feel triggered and

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Speaker 1: you come from a trigger state or you're feeling anxious

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Speaker 1: or whatever, it's like, you know, you're in a child.

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Speaker 1: She's not gone. She's just a little part of who

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Speaker 1: you are today, and she still needs nurturing, especially if

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Speaker 1: you are triggered or feeling anxious. But they can change

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Speaker 1: so much like you said, if you're in a stress state,

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Speaker 1: can slip back into your old attachment style. But that's okay,

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Speaker 1: like your humans. Humans are messy. That's it.

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Speaker 2: It's it's nay and beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not this like one straight narrow line that

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Speaker 1: we just like Dick diictck all the boxes and like

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Speaker 1: just go about life like Gere robot. You feel things

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Speaker 1: and when you feel a lot, you love a lot.

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Speaker 1: When you're heard, it's because you care.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 1: It's just a beautiful journey. But the more we understand,

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Speaker 1: the more we expand out toolbox, the more we have compassion,

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Speaker 1: the less turbulent life has to feel. And that's a

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Speaker 1: goal for me, Like I would love to be unshakeable

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Speaker 1: and not on the point that I never get upset

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Speaker 1: or never go through hard times. But I'd love like

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Speaker 1: when I get that turbulence within my body that I

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Speaker 1: can navigate it better because I understand it. What you

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Speaker 1: don't know, you don't know, you don't know and understand

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00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,360
Speaker 1: like you just fall into victim or you feel stuck

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Speaker 1: or you just think that's the way things are. When

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Speaker 1: you understand, you're like, ah, that's because of this. Okay, cool,

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Speaker 1: that's where I'm at right now. Okay, what tools are

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Speaker 1: want to use to move through that? Or if I

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Speaker 1: don't know who am I going to reach out to

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Speaker 1: hell for? What? Podcasts will let's to learn more? Well,

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Speaker 1: thanks for joining us, guys.

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Speaker 2: We'll see you on Friday.

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Speaker 1: Bye bye

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm