WEBVTT - The driver’s seat | 5 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:03.640 At the beginning of two thousand and one, I started 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:06.880 writing in a diary and there were a lot of 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:10.720 entries in there about Rochelle and our life and her life, 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:14.920 and consequently it ended up being the worst year of 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:23.239 my life. When I read this, I'm disconnected. You know 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:32.000 I'm writing it, but I know I'm not feeling. My 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:33.159 best friend in the. 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:34.440 Whole world was murdered. 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:37.440 My Shelle's life was taken by a means I still 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.640 don't know. All I know is that her body was 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:42.800 found in some scrub on the side of the road. 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:45.880 Who would want to hurt Shell? This is the question 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:47.199 I keep asking myself. 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:58.400 I'm Ashley Handsome and you're listening to episode five of Deererschelle, 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:02.560 a podcast by True Prime Australia. This is the untold 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.840 story of Rochelle Childs. In two thousand and eight, an 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:08.800 inquest would rule that Rochelle. 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:10.600 Was the victim of a homicide, but the. 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:15.840 Coroner fell short of identifying who was responsible. In other words, 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:26.839 it was an open finding. In her early twenties, Rochelle's 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:30.280 best friend Lisa started keeping a diary. She filled it 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.959 with her most secret and private thoughts. Never would she 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.800 have imagined those diary entries would end up in the 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:40.920 hands of detectives investigating her best friend's murder. 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:45.840 Rochelle had the biggest heart out of anyone I have 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.200 ever known. Why would someone want to hurt her? I 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:51.560 just can't believe it. I want them to be wrong. 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.680 On the Wednesday, she was going to dinner at Shawn's 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:57.280 house for his twenty first birthday. 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:01.240 At the time, Sean was going out with Rochelle's little sister, Christi. 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.280 Friday was going to maybe take Lee for a ride 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:06.520 in some loud car. She was going to get from 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.840 Kevin and maybe take Glenn to the airport. 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.960 Remember Lee, he was the young guy from Beau Repairs 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.720 who Rochelle was flirting with, and Glenn was a long 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:18.359 term friend of Hertz. He was one of the last 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.520 people to talk to her before she was murdered. Both 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.440 innocent young men would end up persons of interest in 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:29.000 Rochelle's murder purely through that recent contact. And Kevin, he 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.280 was Rochelle's boss at the time at Camden Holden. By 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.200 the way, you're about to hear a reference to the Catho. 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:39.120 It's short for the Catholic Club, a nightclub in Campbelltown. 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:43.120 That night we were going to go to the Catho 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.920 with Fiona and dance upstairs. Saturday, we were going to 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.440 go into the city to the ice House or something 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:54.440 for Sean's twenty first On the Thursday, I remember her 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.480 saying she was going out and drinking, because I remember 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.280 thinking to myself, Oh shit, how is she going to 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.519 pull off this weekend. I know she told me where 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.440 she was going, and I'm pretty sure who is I 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:07.960 just can't fucking remember. 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:09.760 I can't believe it. 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.800 The one thing, the one detail that matters, and I 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:17.880 can't remember. I remember her mentioning something about the rebels 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.840 and going to their clubhouse, which I thought was the 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:23.600 Leppington one, but I'm not sure she said it was 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.079 that one, and I told her off because it was 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.200 unsafe and she had a weird tone like she didn't 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.200 want to really tell me. She reassured me by saying 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.600 she knew either him or them and that would be okay. 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.880 I still felt uneasy about it, though, I'm going to 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:44.240 see hypnotist this Friday. On the day I gave my statement, 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.200 I said to the police that I know she told 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.040 me and expressed my frustration at not remembering, and I 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.640 told them to put me under hypnosis so I would remember, 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:54.800 and weeks later they have finally decided to listen to me. 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:05.320 I remember. 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:08.440 Laying I get this months when I think about it, 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.280 because I don't know, I feel like she was present 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.960 with me in that moment. And I went out a 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.159 hypnosis and they were getting me to take the role 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.200 of Rachelle. And I remember straight away, you know, my 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.800 posture went from this to you know, slumping. I remember 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:27.280 doing this like I've never smoke a cigarette in my life, right, 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.239 and I just started being Rachelle and my voice changed. 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.520 I started talking like her. I remember swearing a lot. 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.839 I remember saying a a lot and fuck yeah a lot, 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.560 and having a drag on my fake cigarette, and I 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:46.040 remember giggling at myself, you know, thinking oh my god, 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:49.960 I Rachelle, but not being able to control it. And 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.039 then I don't really remember a lot of what I 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:56.120 actually said. But I don't think they got a lot 0:04:56.120 --> 0:05:00.560 of gold, you know, out of it, sadly, but yeah, 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:04.080 it was an interesting thing to go through. And really, 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.120 when I look back at that experience, that was the 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:11.680 extent like I would do continue to do anything to 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.200 help you tell me what I need to you know, 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:18.719 remember or say or dig up or find or you know. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:23.400 I was just so keen to find an answer to 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.359 this for everyone involved. 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.240 Hypnosis might sound like a fairly unorthodox method, but it's 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:34.080 not as unusual as you'd think. Regardless, by this point, 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:40.640 police were desperate to uncover new leads anyway they could. 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.760 In the last episode, Either Davies, the lead investigator on 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:50.200 Rochelle's murder, recall witnessing a heated interaction between a father 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:54.080 and son in a police car park. The son, Bruce, 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:57.880 was Rochelle's neighbor in Bargo. Bruce and his dad had 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.919 just been questioned over their movements on the seventh of 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:05.160 June two thousand and one, the night Rochelle died. Damien 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.640 Lune has a few thoughts on Bruce's alibi. 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.520 He had an alibi on the evening that night of 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.480 working with his father and another man on a car 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.280 that was to be shown that weekend at Tare and 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:21.000 it appears that some discrepancy in relation to who was 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.919 there and for how long, and that alibi was investigated 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.240 by a police exter what they said and a number 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:29.640 of statements were taken and this is in the early days, 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:33.280 but also in the reinvestigation of it. He certainly was 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.120 someone of interest, I would say, And the fact that 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:40.120 he moved very quickly away from the area with his 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:46.320 wife up to North Queensland after Rochelle's death was somewhat suspicious. 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:48.920 But his wife had moved up there prior to him, 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.320 so he went to join her and the kids. So 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:54.320 when he put it in that context, it's probably not 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:57.040 such a big deal. But he has removed himself from 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:01.360 the area from her as a neighbor. It's that he 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.360 had a thing for her, but nothing sexual, just to 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:06.880 hug and a kiss here and there, and I think 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.000 he was hoping for more, but I think she told 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:10.880 him straightaway that nothing else is going to happen. 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.000 Do you think that's suspicious that his Jerry Can was 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.760 found in the boot of her car, given that Rachelle's 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:18.840 body was set on fire. 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:21.520 Look, you could say yes and you could say no 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:24.720 in this scenario, but I think the investigations clearly worked 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.160 out that Rochelle was prone to breaking down running out 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.679 of petrol because she'd only put minimum amounts of fuel 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:32.240 in her car. She didn't have a lot of money, 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.160 so she's borrowed of spare jerry can from him at 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:39.960 some stage to keep petrol in it in case she 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.720 did run out, And you could say that was you know, 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.360 if you'll be stupid enough to leave that jerry can 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.160 in the boot of that vehicle, it come back to 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:52.560 buite you very quickly. So I think honestly it was 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.320 a genuine act of kindness that he's borrowed at given 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:59.920 her a fuel can. And he says that he doesn't deny, 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.560 and we know that she was praying to running out 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:05.760 of fuel, and. 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.840 It's just unfortunate that the jerry can was found in 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:09.600 the boot of the car. 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:13.520 Yes, and her body had been said alight by an accelerant. 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.720 So you know, we're looking pretty pretty good here for 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.680 a bit. It was investigated. I think that it was 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.640 a satisfactory explanation as to why it was in there. 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.000 Reviewing the facts today, Damien doesn't think Bruce was involved 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.280 in Rochelle's murder. Something we keep coming back to, though, 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.280 is the Bargo Hotel. To get our heads around the case, 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.000 Damian and I went for a visit to the old pub. 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:41.040 Who was Rochelle supposedly meeting here on that Thursday night, 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:43.559 and how did her car get here? 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:48.840 So she drove it up? 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:50.040 No? 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.880 Its first I'd say and say. 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.400 How do we know that she even drove it here? 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.160 Well, that's right, do we know that? We don't? Don't 0:08:58.200 --> 0:08:58.400 know that? 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:01.840 How common was in two thousand and one for pubs 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.080 and clubs and businesses to have CCTV. 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.480 Oh they had, ah, I note because I was doing 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:10.199 a brief on a serious assault at dy Hotel back 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:13.160 in nineteen ninety seven and they had CCTV footage out 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:13.920 in front of the premises. 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.200 Unfortunately in the Bargo Hotel didn't have one. 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:17.800 Not at the back. They have it now they had 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:18.240 one up there. 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:19.680 An how it's looking right at us? 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.079 Let's look into the evidence gathered from the Bargo Hotel. 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.080 In the early days of the investigation, Thursday was topless 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:35.040 waitress night, so the punters were predominantly men, and even 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.000 though Rochelle lived nearby, it wasn't somewhere where she was 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.960 known to go. These days, Hotel Bargo as it's now called, 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.920 has been renovated and it's a popular family friendly pub. 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:48.679 But in early two thousand and one it was a 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.840 common drinking hole for the local rebels, and it had 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:55.160 a bit of a rough reputation. Early in the search 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.920 for Rochelle, her family was told she was going to 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:02.000 meet someone at the Bargo Hotel. There's some conflicting evidence 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:06.920 about whether anyone saw Rochelle there. Bartender Joy Eastman remember 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.520 seeing a blonde twenty three year old who showed her 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:13.040 id early in the night. Police looked into that, but 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:15.800 it was later revealed another blonde woman of the same 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.839 age with a similar appearance was in the bar that night. 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:23.160 The pub manager at the time, Colin Picton, is adamant 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:27.240 though she was never there. We know Rochelle's distinctive blue 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.400 Commodore was discovered in the pub's back car park on 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.520 the Saturday, But when it was placed there and by 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:38.599 who could unlock the mystery. Rochelle's friends and family we 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.560 recall racing to the hotel when they heard her car 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:42.480 had been found. 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:46.880 We got into the car and I remember sitting in 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:49.200 the car and going, there's something wrong. 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:52.920 But the car seat didn't look like the way Rochelle 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:53.280 would sit. 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:54.920 The club block was on upside down. 0:10:55.080 --> 0:11:00.160 She would sick like hanging back with the sword, a 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:01.960 cruisy arm, and you know she. 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:03.800 Had a specific way that she used to put the 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:05.200 club block on, and she had. 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.640 One of those old hooks that you pull the arm out, and. 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.199 The seat was really far back, which she did used 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:12.920 to have her seat really far back, but it was 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:14.559 really far back. 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:16.760 From a memory, that all just looks funny. It just 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:18.520 didn't look like she'd driven. 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:23.240 And I remember looking at the car going, there's something 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.160 seriously wrong here. And she didn't park this year's years. 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.640 So who did park it there? And what secrets could her? 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.600 Beloved nineteen seventy eight, holand Commodore vb off her up. 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.599 That car has been in Christie's farm shed for a 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:45.520 long time now, but six years after Rochelle's murder it 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.480 was still in the hands of police. They called in 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:53.360 photogrammatory expert Professor John Fryer to recreate the positioning of 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.080 the driver's seat. Their goal was to establish the height 0:11:57.440 --> 0:11:59.920 of the person who last sat behind the wheel. 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.960 I came into this six years after the event. That's 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.959 typical of most of the jobs I did. Most of 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:11.079 the jobs had gone cold, and after they got cold 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:12.959 for a few years, the police seemed to leave it, 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.319 and then they get a new team to investigate it, 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.640 and then that new team says, what else can we find? 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:23.400 And then they often came to me to look at 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:29.080 some video evidence, you know, photographs or whatever to try 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:30.439 and dig something else out. 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:32.880 Let's go back to the twenty ninth of May two 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.920 thousand and seven at Marulan, a town in the southern 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.520 Highlands of New South Wales. You were asked by police 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:44.320 to prepare a report and inspect a vehicle at Marulan 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:48.079 that was connected to a police investigation. Can you tell 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:48.920 me about that day? 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.680 Yeah, I remember the day quite clearly because I had 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.120 had to get up very early to drive to Marulin 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.520 and I got there early about nine o'clock and there 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:02.280 was a large holding yard in basically the countryside behind 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.840 the police station, and it's full of vehicles of various types. 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.040 The one I was shown was a I think it's 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:15.280 a holden. That particular vehicle had obviously been forensically examined. 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.839 The linings were off the inside of the doors, the 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:21.120 steering wheel was not there, and I was asked, given 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:26.040 these original photographs from the original police photographer, could I 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:30.400 recreate the seats back into the position they were originally 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.800 And then when the seats were back in the position 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.719 they were originally, could I make measurements as to how 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.679 far from the seat to the accelerator pedal or to 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.280 the brake or to where the steering wheel was. 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.719 So you measured the distance from the bottom of the seat. 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.040 Yeah, from the front of the bottom of the seat 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.080 to the accelerator and the brake pedal, and they were 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.400 about five hundred millimeters. And I also measured the distance 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.280 from the head rest and the back of the seat 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.079 to where the steering wheel would have been. As I say, 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.120 the steering wheel was gone, but the nut that held 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:08.000 it on and the steering column was still there, so 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.520 I could make that measurement. What the police did with 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.880 this information, I don't know, but I presume they tried 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:19.400 those distances out on that vehicle with different sized people 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.440 to see whether it was a tall person who drove 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.600 it or a short person or a medium one. And 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.760 they've submitted my report. I never heard back. 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.080 You were never told who owned the car, and the 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:35.800 circumstances really about who the victim was at the heart 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:37.920 of this investigation. 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:41.160 Until you rang me up and said the lady's name 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.080 that was involved in this, I had never heard that name. 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.240 All I knew was as motor car, and here's some 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:50.600 protos of it. Put the seats back as they were 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:52.040 and make some measurements for us. 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.000 Would you like to see the owner and the victim 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:57.560 at the heart of this story? Oh yeah, this is her, 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.480 Rachelle Child's twenty three. 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:13.760 Wow, she looks like a film person, Bette Midler or somebody. 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:14.680 Did she miss Stuning? 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:15.080 Wasn't she? 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:15.520 Yes? 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.160 Who saw Rochelle's car? Where and when on the night 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.440 in question has been a point of contention. From the beginning, 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:33.280 memories fade, and when you're talking to pub patrons days 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.040 or even weeks after the event, things can be a 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.520 bit blarry. We're taking you through the suspicious sightings of 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:42.960 a car similar to Rochelle's aunt Jiroa, where her burning 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.440 body was found, but there were also reports suggesting her 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.840 blue Comool was parked at the Bargo Hotel as early 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:52.680 as six point thirty and as late as ten thirty 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:56.400 on the Thursday night. If both sets of witnesses saw 0:15:56.480 --> 0:16:00.840 the same Comodol, someone's memory is incorrect, or maybe their 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.720 recollection of which night they saw the current the pub 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.040 is out. We know the pub closed at midnight. 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.160 Chris Sillings were from a former New South Wales Police 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.480 Force detective sergeant. I was trained by the FBI in 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:19.240 criminal profiling. I was the New South Wales Police criminal 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.280 profiler for about ten years and I worked on the 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:26.760 Rishell Child's case in two thousand and three. I was 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.480 brought in by Detective Inspector Mick Ashwood from Homicide in 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.680 July two thousand and three, so two years after the murder, 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.760 and my job was just to come in, look at 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.800 the scene, look at the material that Nick provided to me, photos, 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.200 autopsy report, and do what you do as a profilo, 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:49.880 look at the behavior, what happened. 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:51.640 Why did it happen that way? Who would need to 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:52.120 do those. 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:57.720 Things for those reasons? Because people, often police included, will 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.840 jump to straight to well who've done it? This happened, 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.160 Well who done it? They missed two crucial steps, which 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:08.440 is what happened and why did it happen? And those 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.720 two things will tell you about the person who did it. 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:12.760 You can't just go straight to who did it. 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:18.280 Chris's report has never been shared with Rochelle's family or 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.960 the public until now. We met for the first time 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.080 at seven Mile Beach Droa and she took me through 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.560 her recollection of what she believes happened to Rochelle in 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:32.040 precise detail after she was murdered. 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:46.159 She's been dragged down here, straight down towards here and 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.720 by the ankles, by the two feet to Yella, dragging 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:59.760 that way. And at this point the offenders looks to 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:04.320 into a sapling because there's a snap sapling just where 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.159 her feet are, so it's almost like he's gone up 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.960 like that. And the debris that's around here, because this 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.960 grass wasn't here so much, she was more just plant 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:21.280 material like leaf material is kicked up onto like her shoes. 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.480 Lying on the left side in a fetal position, so 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:29.240 she's naked from the waist down, so her buttocks and 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:36.520 her upper legs from the rear exposed, and some debris 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:41.200 been kicked onto this area, onto a buttocks area, which 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:43.720 I think is just from where he's slipped and fallen 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.560 on the slope in the dark and go well like 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:50.280 that and kicked some debris onto her. I don't think 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:55.560 that was intentional. And after that, there's a few steps 0:18:55.600 --> 0:19:01.040 after that, so there's some fire debris on the higher side, 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.680 and it makes me wonder if he started the fire 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:07.080 on the higher side, and there's sort of a drag 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:11.400 across the top of the tank through that material that's 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:16.840 on top this natural material, and the fire's actually lit here, 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:20.960 but possibly had to go there too, and there's some 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:25.840 accelerant on the tank itself, so it's like a bit 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:29.280 of a paw. But the other option is that it 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:34.080 was started there. It's bore downhill, so the material, the 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.399 excellant runs downhill onto the tank. I think that's what happened, 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.320 and he's got a excellance run off the body, so 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:46.960 I'll pull the body down here, slip over and her 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:50.200 position Christ has been dragged in by the feet. She 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:58.880 ends up sort of about here, face down, left side down, 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:03.399 left feetle side down, face close to the tank because 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:09.840 the tank's protruding about that much, and feet back here, 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.600 lying back here, and the two ankles are together so 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:19.080 like like this, and there's just a faint discoloration around 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.960 the ankles or the feet which supports them being held 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:27.639 by the ankles. So he found once he's found the location, 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.280 dragged it down here, probably had to go at one 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:35.439 point with the fire, moved her around to here, slipped 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:38.359 had another go with the fire, and that's the final position. 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:43.000 But before doing that, the person has had to go 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.960 at opening up this tank with the concrete lid, which 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:48.359 is you know about that thick, so it's really heavy, 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.000 very thick. So it didn't work. The plant open the 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:55.959 tank didn't work, and as we know now, even if 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.359 he had gotten it open, there wasn't enough for him 0:20:58.400 --> 0:20:59.320 to put her in there anyway. 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:04.840 To view an extended video of Chris's insights as she 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:09.399 follows the killers trucks disposing of Rochelle's body and belongings, 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.920 visit Dear Rochelle dot com dot au. Some of the 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.520 funks are confronting, but we think this level of detail 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:19.800 is paramount and could go a long way to exposing 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:23.600 who was responsible for Rochelle's suspected rape and murder. 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.240 There's a lot of places between here and Bargo that 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.560 would be better, So why not pull over in one 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:36.360 of those better places. It's less time and effort, there's 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:38.200 less risk because you're getting rid of the body quicker. 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:40.400 There's two ways to look at one that he knew 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:44.280 this was here, But why come all this way like 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:46.320 one hundred odd k's for an hour or more. 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:47.920 To this? 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.600 I only to create a fire, which is close to 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:53.480 the road and it gets found very quickly as it happens, 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:55.960 and it's even though it's late, it's a kind of 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:59.040 a well used road, so it's not smart. You do 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:03.399 all this, which suggests organization, planning, thinking, and then you 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:07.159 drive away stals a property. Why not leave the property here? 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:14.040 Rochelle's belongings, including her handbag, shoes, and a bed sheet 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:17.520 which was stored in Rochelle's boot, were found scattered in 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:22.920 different places a fair distance apart. As Chris suggests, it's 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:25.960 very telling of the offender's state of mind at the time. 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:28.719 Chris takes us on the same trail. 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:32.600 We're on Beach Road, about a kilometer from where you 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:35.520 turn off to head towards Berry, probably about two kilometers 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.440 in total from the body deposition side, and there's a 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:42.320 little intersection here next to a private property. There's a 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:45.000 farmer's property on the other side of the road, and 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:47.280 this is where the sheet was found. It was a 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:54.920 commercial grade white flat sheet and had some soiled from 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:58.720 the ground on It's so the offender would have pulled 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:02.399 over here. We can actually pull off the road, not 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:04.719 put it on that side, because it is the private property. 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:07.840 We've put on that side, there's few trees in the 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:09.320 hope that no one will see it. But it was 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:13.920 actually found fairly quickly, so it's not an intelligent site. 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:19.520 To put it again, it reflects haste and inexperience of 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:23.800 how to deal with getting rid of physical evidence like 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:27.920 this is a pretty hasty, sloppy way to do it. 0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:43.120 We've just arrived at the Tarmill Inn, which is at Tarmore. 0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:48.679 And why is this location a piece of the puzzle. 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:51.639 Well, this is one of the crime sites. This is 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:55.040