Speaker 1: At the beginning of two thousand and one, I started
Speaker 1: writing in a diary and there were a lot of
Speaker 1: entries in there about Rochelle and our life and her life,
Speaker 1: and consequently it ended up being the worst year of
Speaker 1: my life. When I read this, I'm disconnected. You know
Speaker 1: I'm writing it, but I know I'm not feeling. My
Speaker 1: best friend in the.
Speaker 2: Whole world was murdered.
Speaker 1: My Shelle's life was taken by a means I still
Speaker 1: don't know. All I know is that her body was
Speaker 1: found in some scrub on the side of the road.
Speaker 1: Who would want to hurt Shell? This is the question
Speaker 1: I keep asking myself.
Speaker 3: I'm Ashley Handsome and you're listening to episode five of Deererschelle,
Speaker 3: a podcast by True Prime Australia. This is the untold
Speaker 3: story of Rochelle Childs. In two thousand and eight, an
Speaker 3: inquest would rule that Rochelle.
Speaker 2: Was the victim of a homicide, but the.
Speaker 3: Coroner fell short of identifying who was responsible. In other words,
Speaker 3: it was an open finding. In her early twenties, Rochelle's
Speaker 3: best friend Lisa started keeping a diary. She filled it
Speaker 3: with her most secret and private thoughts. Never would she
Speaker 3: have imagined those diary entries would end up in the
Speaker 3: hands of detectives investigating her best friend's murder.
Speaker 1: Rochelle had the biggest heart out of anyone I have
Speaker 1: ever known. Why would someone want to hurt her? I
Speaker 1: just can't believe it. I want them to be wrong.
Speaker 1: On the Wednesday, she was going to dinner at Shawn's
Speaker 1: house for his twenty first birthday.
Speaker 2: At the time, Sean was going out with Rochelle's little sister, Christi.
Speaker 1: Friday was going to maybe take Lee for a ride
Speaker 1: in some loud car. She was going to get from
Speaker 1: Kevin and maybe take Glenn to the airport.
Speaker 3: Remember Lee, he was the young guy from Beau Repairs
Speaker 3: who Rochelle was flirting with, and Glenn was a long
Speaker 3: term friend of Hertz. He was one of the last
Speaker 3: people to talk to her before she was murdered. Both
Speaker 3: innocent young men would end up persons of interest in
Speaker 3: Rochelle's murder purely through that recent contact. And Kevin, he
Speaker 3: was Rochelle's boss at the time at Camden Holden. By
Speaker 3: the way, you're about to hear a reference to the Catho.
Speaker 3: It's short for the Catholic Club, a nightclub in Campbelltown.
Speaker 1: That night we were going to go to the Catho
Speaker 1: with Fiona and dance upstairs. Saturday, we were going to
Speaker 1: go into the city to the ice House or something
Speaker 1: for Sean's twenty first On the Thursday, I remember her
Speaker 1: saying she was going out and drinking, because I remember
Speaker 1: thinking to myself, Oh shit, how is she going to
Speaker 1: pull off this weekend. I know she told me where
Speaker 1: she was going, and I'm pretty sure who is I
Speaker 1: just can't fucking remember.
Speaker 2: I can't believe it.
Speaker 1: The one thing, the one detail that matters, and I
Speaker 1: can't remember. I remember her mentioning something about the rebels
Speaker 1: and going to their clubhouse, which I thought was the
Speaker 1: Leppington one, but I'm not sure she said it was
Speaker 1: that one, and I told her off because it was
Speaker 1: unsafe and she had a weird tone like she didn't
Speaker 1: want to really tell me. She reassured me by saying
Speaker 1: she knew either him or them and that would be okay.
Speaker 1: I still felt uneasy about it, though, I'm going to
Speaker 1: see hypnotist this Friday. On the day I gave my statement,
Speaker 1: I said to the police that I know she told
Speaker 1: me and expressed my frustration at not remembering, and I
Speaker 1: told them to put me under hypnosis so I would remember,
Speaker 1: and weeks later they have finally decided to listen to me.
Speaker 4: I remember.
Speaker 1: Laying I get this months when I think about it,
Speaker 1: because I don't know, I feel like she was present
Speaker 1: with me in that moment. And I went out a
Speaker 1: hypnosis and they were getting me to take the role
Speaker 1: of Rachelle. And I remember straight away, you know, my
Speaker 1: posture went from this to you know, slumping. I remember
Speaker 1: doing this like I've never smoke a cigarette in my life, right,
Speaker 1: and I just started being Rachelle and my voice changed.
Speaker 1: I started talking like her. I remember swearing a lot.
Speaker 1: I remember saying a a lot and fuck yeah a lot,
Speaker 1: and having a drag on my fake cigarette, and I
Speaker 1: remember giggling at myself, you know, thinking oh my god,
Speaker 1: I Rachelle, but not being able to control it. And
Speaker 1: then I don't really remember a lot of what I
Speaker 1: actually said. But I don't think they got a lot
Speaker 1: of gold, you know, out of it, sadly, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it was an interesting thing to go through. And really,
Speaker 1: when I look back at that experience, that was the
Speaker 1: extent like I would do continue to do anything to
Speaker 1: help you tell me what I need to you know,
Speaker 1: remember or say or dig up or find or you know.
Speaker 1: I was just so keen to find an answer to
Speaker 1: this for everyone involved.
Speaker 3: Hypnosis might sound like a fairly unorthodox method, but it's
Speaker 3: not as unusual as you'd think. Regardless, by this point,
Speaker 3: police were desperate to uncover new leads anyway they could.
Speaker 3: In the last episode, Either Davies, the lead investigator on
Speaker 3: Rochelle's murder, recall witnessing a heated interaction between a father
Speaker 3: and son in a police car park. The son, Bruce,
Speaker 3: was Rochelle's neighbor in Bargo. Bruce and his dad had
Speaker 3: just been questioned over their movements on the seventh of
Speaker 3: June two thousand and one, the night Rochelle died. Damien
Speaker 3: Lune has a few thoughts on Bruce's alibi.
Speaker 5: He had an alibi on the evening that night of
Speaker 5: working with his father and another man on a car
Speaker 5: that was to be shown that weekend at Tare and
Speaker 5: it appears that some discrepancy in relation to who was
Speaker 5: there and for how long, and that alibi was investigated
Speaker 5: by a police exter what they said and a number
Speaker 5: of statements were taken and this is in the early days,
Speaker 5: but also in the reinvestigation of it. He certainly was
Speaker 5: someone of interest, I would say, And the fact that
Speaker 5: he moved very quickly away from the area with his
Speaker 5: wife up to North Queensland after Rochelle's death was somewhat suspicious.
Speaker 5: But his wife had moved up there prior to him,
Speaker 5: so he went to join her and the kids. So
Speaker 5: when he put it in that context, it's probably not
Speaker 5: such a big deal. But he has removed himself from
Speaker 5: the area from her as a neighbor. It's that he
Speaker 5: had a thing for her, but nothing sexual, just to
Speaker 5: hug and a kiss here and there, and I think
Speaker 5: he was hoping for more, but I think she told
Speaker 5: him straightaway that nothing else is going to happen.
Speaker 2: Do you think that's suspicious that his Jerry Can was
Speaker 2: found in the boot of her car, given that Rachelle's
Speaker 2: body was set on fire.
Speaker 5: Look, you could say yes and you could say no
Speaker 5: in this scenario, but I think the investigations clearly worked
Speaker 5: out that Rochelle was prone to breaking down running out
Speaker 5: of petrol because she'd only put minimum amounts of fuel
Speaker 5: in her car. She didn't have a lot of money,
Speaker 5: so she's borrowed of spare jerry can from him at
Speaker 5: some stage to keep petrol in it in case she
Speaker 5: did run out, And you could say that was you know,
Speaker 5: if you'll be stupid enough to leave that jerry can
Speaker 5: in the boot of that vehicle, it come back to
Speaker 5: buite you very quickly. So I think honestly it was
Speaker 5: a genuine act of kindness that he's borrowed at given
Speaker 5: her a fuel can. And he says that he doesn't deny,
Speaker 5: and we know that she was praying to running out
Speaker 5: of fuel, and.
Speaker 2: It's just unfortunate that the jerry can was found in
Speaker 2: the boot of the car.
Speaker 5: Yes, and her body had been said alight by an accelerant.
Speaker 5: So you know, we're looking pretty pretty good here for
Speaker 5: a bit. It was investigated. I think that it was
Speaker 5: a satisfactory explanation as to why it was in there.
Speaker 3: Reviewing the facts today, Damien doesn't think Bruce was involved
Speaker 3: in Rochelle's murder. Something we keep coming back to, though,
Speaker 3: is the Bargo Hotel. To get our heads around the case,
Speaker 3: Damian and I went for a visit to the old pub.
Speaker 3: Who was Rochelle supposedly meeting here on that Thursday night,
Speaker 3: and how did her car get here?
Speaker 5: So she drove it up?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 5: Its first I'd say and say.
Speaker 2: How do we know that she even drove it here?
Speaker 5: Well, that's right, do we know that? We don't? Don't
Speaker 5: know that?
Speaker 3: How common was in two thousand and one for pubs
Speaker 3: and clubs and businesses to have CCTV.
Speaker 5: Oh they had, ah, I note because I was doing
Speaker 5: a brief on a serious assault at dy Hotel back
Speaker 5: in nineteen ninety seven and they had CCTV footage out
Speaker 5: in front of the premises.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately in the Bargo Hotel didn't have one.
Speaker 5: Not at the back. They have it now they had
Speaker 5: one up there.
Speaker 6: An how it's looking right at us?
Speaker 3: Let's look into the evidence gathered from the Bargo Hotel.
Speaker 3: In the early days of the investigation, Thursday was topless
Speaker 3: waitress night, so the punters were predominantly men, and even
Speaker 3: though Rochelle lived nearby, it wasn't somewhere where she was
Speaker 3: known to go. These days, Hotel Bargo as it's now called,
Speaker 3: has been renovated and it's a popular family friendly pub.
Speaker 3: But in early two thousand and one it was a
Speaker 3: common drinking hole for the local rebels, and it had
Speaker 3: a bit of a rough reputation. Early in the search
Speaker 3: for Rochelle, her family was told she was going to
Speaker 3: meet someone at the Bargo Hotel. There's some conflicting evidence
Speaker 3: about whether anyone saw Rochelle there. Bartender Joy Eastman remember
Speaker 3: seeing a blonde twenty three year old who showed her
Speaker 3: id early in the night. Police looked into that, but
Speaker 3: it was later revealed another blonde woman of the same
Speaker 3: age with a similar appearance was in the bar that night.
Speaker 3: The pub manager at the time, Colin Picton, is adamant
Speaker 3: though she was never there. We know Rochelle's distinctive blue
Speaker 3: Commodore was discovered in the pub's back car park on
Speaker 3: the Saturday, But when it was placed there and by
Speaker 3: who could unlock the mystery. Rochelle's friends and family we
Speaker 3: recall racing to the hotel when they heard her car
Speaker 3: had been found.
Speaker 6: We got into the car and I remember sitting in
Speaker 6: the car and going, there's something wrong.
Speaker 7: But the car seat didn't look like the way Rochelle
Speaker 7: would sit.
Speaker 6: The club block was on upside down.
Speaker 7: She would sick like hanging back with the sword, a
Speaker 7: cruisy arm, and you know she.
Speaker 6: Had a specific way that she used to put the
Speaker 6: club block on, and she had.
Speaker 7: One of those old hooks that you pull the arm out, and.
Speaker 6: The seat was really far back, which she did used
Speaker 6: to have her seat really far back, but it was
Speaker 6: really far back.
Speaker 7: From a memory, that all just looks funny. It just
Speaker 7: didn't look like she'd driven.
Speaker 6: And I remember looking at the car going, there's something
Speaker 6: seriously wrong here. And she didn't park this year's years.
Speaker 3: So who did park it there? And what secrets could her?
Speaker 3: Beloved nineteen seventy eight, holand Commodore vb off her up.
Speaker 3: That car has been in Christie's farm shed for a
Speaker 3: long time now, but six years after Rochelle's murder it
Speaker 3: was still in the hands of police. They called in
Speaker 3: photogrammatory expert Professor John Fryer to recreate the positioning of
Speaker 3: the driver's seat. Their goal was to establish the height
Speaker 3: of the person who last sat behind the wheel.
Speaker 8: I came into this six years after the event. That's
Speaker 8: typical of most of the jobs I did. Most of
Speaker 8: the jobs had gone cold, and after they got cold
Speaker 8: for a few years, the police seemed to leave it,
Speaker 8: and then they get a new team to investigate it,
Speaker 8: and then that new team says, what else can we find?
Speaker 8: And then they often came to me to look at
Speaker 8: some video evidence, you know, photographs or whatever to try
Speaker 8: and dig something else out.
Speaker 2: Let's go back to the twenty ninth of May two
Speaker 2: thousand and seven at Marulan, a town in the southern
Speaker 2: Highlands of New South Wales. You were asked by police
Speaker 2: to prepare a report and inspect a vehicle at Marulan
Speaker 2: that was connected to a police investigation. Can you tell
Speaker 2: me about that day?
Speaker 8: Yeah, I remember the day quite clearly because I had
Speaker 8: had to get up very early to drive to Marulin
Speaker 8: and I got there early about nine o'clock and there
Speaker 8: was a large holding yard in basically the countryside behind
Speaker 8: the police station, and it's full of vehicles of various types.
Speaker 8: The one I was shown was a I think it's
Speaker 8: a holden. That particular vehicle had obviously been forensically examined.
Speaker 8: The linings were off the inside of the doors, the
Speaker 8: steering wheel was not there, and I was asked, given
Speaker 8: these original photographs from the original police photographer, could I
Speaker 8: recreate the seats back into the position they were originally
Speaker 8: And then when the seats were back in the position
Speaker 8: they were originally, could I make measurements as to how
Speaker 8: far from the seat to the accelerator pedal or to
Speaker 8: the brake or to where the steering wheel was.
Speaker 2: So you measured the distance from the bottom of the seat.
Speaker 8: Yeah, from the front of the bottom of the seat
Speaker 8: to the accelerator and the brake pedal, and they were
Speaker 8: about five hundred millimeters. And I also measured the distance
Speaker 8: from the head rest and the back of the seat
Speaker 8: to where the steering wheel would have been. As I say,
Speaker 8: the steering wheel was gone, but the nut that held
Speaker 8: it on and the steering column was still there, so
Speaker 8: I could make that measurement. What the police did with
Speaker 8: this information, I don't know, but I presume they tried
Speaker 8: those distances out on that vehicle with different sized people
Speaker 8: to see whether it was a tall person who drove
Speaker 8: it or a short person or a medium one. And
Speaker 8: they've submitted my report. I never heard back.
Speaker 3: You were never told who owned the car, and the
Speaker 3: circumstances really about who the victim was at the heart
Speaker 3: of this investigation.
Speaker 8: Until you rang me up and said the lady's name
Speaker 8: that was involved in this, I had never heard that name.
Speaker 8: All I knew was as motor car, and here's some
Speaker 8: protos of it. Put the seats back as they were
Speaker 8: and make some measurements for us.
Speaker 3: Would you like to see the owner and the victim
Speaker 3: at the heart of this story? Oh yeah, this is her,
Speaker 3: Rachelle Child's twenty three.
Speaker 8: Wow, she looks like a film person, Bette Midler or somebody.
Speaker 2: Did she miss Stuning?
Speaker 3: Wasn't she?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 3: Who saw Rochelle's car? Where and when on the night
Speaker 3: in question has been a point of contention. From the beginning,
Speaker 3: memories fade, and when you're talking to pub patrons days
Speaker 3: or even weeks after the event, things can be a
Speaker 3: bit blarry. We're taking you through the suspicious sightings of
Speaker 3: a car similar to Rochelle's aunt Jiroa, where her burning
Speaker 3: body was found, but there were also reports suggesting her
Speaker 3: blue Comool was parked at the Bargo Hotel as early
Speaker 3: as six point thirty and as late as ten thirty
Speaker 3: on the Thursday night. If both sets of witnesses saw
Speaker 3: the same Comodol, someone's memory is incorrect, or maybe their
Speaker 3: recollection of which night they saw the current the pub
Speaker 3: is out. We know the pub closed at midnight.
Speaker 4: Chris Sillings were from a former New South Wales Police
Speaker 4: Force detective sergeant. I was trained by the FBI in
Speaker 4: criminal profiling. I was the New South Wales Police criminal
Speaker 4: profiler for about ten years and I worked on the
Speaker 4: Rishell Child's case in two thousand and three. I was
Speaker 4: brought in by Detective Inspector Mick Ashwood from Homicide in
Speaker 4: July two thousand and three, so two years after the murder,
Speaker 4: and my job was just to come in, look at
Speaker 4: the scene, look at the material that Nick provided to me, photos,
Speaker 4: autopsy report, and do what you do as a profilo,
Speaker 4: look at the behavior, what happened.
Speaker 9: Why did it happen that way? Who would need to
Speaker 9: do those.
Speaker 4: Things for those reasons? Because people, often police included, will
Speaker 4: jump to straight to well who've done it? This happened,
Speaker 4: Well who done it? They missed two crucial steps, which
Speaker 4: is what happened and why did it happen? And those
Speaker 4: two things will tell you about the person who did it.
Speaker 4: You can't just go straight to who did it.
Speaker 3: Chris's report has never been shared with Rochelle's family or
Speaker 3: the public until now. We met for the first time
Speaker 3: at seven Mile Beach Droa and she took me through
Speaker 3: her recollection of what she believes happened to Rochelle in
Speaker 3: precise detail after she was murdered.
Speaker 4: She's been dragged down here, straight down towards here and
Speaker 4: by the ankles, by the two feet to Yella, dragging
Speaker 4: that way. And at this point the offenders looks to
Speaker 4: into a sapling because there's a snap sapling just where
Speaker 4: her feet are, so it's almost like he's gone up
Speaker 4: like that. And the debris that's around here, because this
Speaker 4: grass wasn't here so much, she was more just plant
Speaker 4: material like leaf material is kicked up onto like her shoes.
Speaker 4: Lying on the left side in a fetal position, so
Speaker 4: she's naked from the waist down, so her buttocks and
Speaker 4: her upper legs from the rear exposed, and some debris
Speaker 4: been kicked onto this area, onto a buttocks area, which
Speaker 4: I think is just from where he's slipped and fallen
Speaker 4: on the slope in the dark and go well like
Speaker 4: that and kicked some debris onto her. I don't think
Speaker 4: that was intentional. And after that, there's a few steps
Speaker 4: after that, so there's some fire debris on the higher side,
Speaker 4: and it makes me wonder if he started the fire
Speaker 4: on the higher side, and there's sort of a drag
Speaker 4: across the top of the tank through that material that's
Speaker 4: on top this natural material, and the fire's actually lit here,
Speaker 4: but possibly had to go there too, and there's some
Speaker 4: accelerant on the tank itself, so it's like a bit
Speaker 4: of a paw. But the other option is that it
Speaker 4: was started there. It's bore downhill, so the material, the
Speaker 4: excellant runs downhill onto the tank. I think that's what happened,
Speaker 4: and he's got a excellance run off the body, so
Speaker 4: I'll pull the body down here, slip over and her
Speaker 4: position Christ has been dragged in by the feet. She
Speaker 4: ends up sort of about here, face down, left side down,
Speaker 4: left feetle side down, face close to the tank because
Speaker 4: the tank's protruding about that much, and feet back here,
Speaker 4: lying back here, and the two ankles are together so
Speaker 4: like like this, and there's just a faint discoloration around
Speaker 4: the ankles or the feet which supports them being held
Speaker 4: by the ankles. So he found once he's found the location,
Speaker 4: dragged it down here, probably had to go at one
Speaker 4: point with the fire, moved her around to here, slipped
Speaker 4: had another go with the fire, and that's the final position.
Speaker 4: But before doing that, the person has had to go
Speaker 4: at opening up this tank with the concrete lid, which
Speaker 4: is you know about that thick, so it's really heavy,
Speaker 4: very thick. So it didn't work. The plant open the
Speaker 4: tank didn't work, and as we know now, even if
Speaker 4: he had gotten it open, there wasn't enough for him
Speaker 4: to put her in there anyway.
Speaker 3: To view an extended video of Chris's insights as she
Speaker 3: follows the killers trucks disposing of Rochelle's body and belongings,
Speaker 3: visit Dear Rochelle dot com dot au. Some of the
Speaker 3: funks are confronting, but we think this level of detail
Speaker 3: is paramount and could go a long way to exposing
Speaker 3: who was responsible for Rochelle's suspected rape and murder.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of places between here and Bargo that
Speaker 4: would be better, So why not pull over in one
Speaker 4: of those better places. It's less time and effort, there's
Speaker 4: less risk because you're getting rid of the body quicker.
Speaker 4: There's two ways to look at one that he knew
Speaker 4: this was here, But why come all this way like
Speaker 4: one hundred odd k's for an hour or more.
Speaker 9: To this?
Speaker 4: I only to create a fire, which is close to
Speaker 4: the road and it gets found very quickly as it happens,
Speaker 4: and it's even though it's late, it's a kind of
Speaker 4: a well used road, so it's not smart. You do
Speaker 4: all this, which suggests organization, planning, thinking, and then you
Speaker 4: drive away stals a property. Why not leave the property here?
Speaker 3: Rochelle's belongings, including her handbag, shoes, and a bed sheet
Speaker 3: which was stored in Rochelle's boot, were found scattered in
Speaker 3: different places a fair distance apart. As Chris suggests, it's
Speaker 3: very telling of the offender's state of mind at the time.
Speaker 2: Chris takes us on the same trail.
Speaker 4: We're on Beach Road, about a kilometer from where you
Speaker 4: turn off to head towards Berry, probably about two kilometers
Speaker 4: in total from the body deposition side, and there's a
Speaker 4: little intersection here next to a private property. There's a
Speaker 4: farmer's property on the other side of the road, and
Speaker 4: this is where the sheet was found. It was a
Speaker 4: commercial grade white flat sheet and had some soiled from
Speaker 4: the ground on It's so the offender would have pulled
Speaker 4: over here. We can actually pull off the road, not
Speaker 4: put it on that side, because it is the private property.
Speaker 4: We've put on that side, there's few trees in the
Speaker 4: hope that no one will see it. But it was
Speaker 4: actually found fairly quickly, so it's not an intelligent site.
Speaker 4: To put it again, it reflects haste and inexperience of
Speaker 4: how to deal with getting rid of physical evidence like
Speaker 4: this is a pretty hasty, sloppy way to do it.
Speaker 2: We've just arrived at the Tarmill Inn, which is at Tarmore.
Speaker 2: And why is this location a piece of the puzzle.
Speaker 4: Well, this is one of the crime sites. This is
Speaker 4: where a pair of shoes were found that were determined
Speaker 4: to be Rachelle's shoes, along with some rubbish. There was
Speaker 4: a worker brownsman who found these shoes on the morning
Speaker 4: of Friday, the eighth of June, so that is the
Speaker 4: morning of Rochelle's body being burnt. Now he thinks he
Speaker 4: saw a vehicle here, but it was pretty dark and
Speaker 4: in the morning he saw these shoes and this rubbish.
Speaker 4: He went over there and had a look, but he
Speaker 4: didn't do much about it. And then a few days
Speaker 4: later the boss of the place said, oh, you better
Speaker 4: go and clean up that rubbish. So that's when the
Speaker 4: shoes were actually found and recovered. But the police weren't
Speaker 4: notified for I think it was about another month or so.
Speaker 4: I mean behaviorally, it says that the items of clothing
Speaker 4: and the sheet were disposed of on the way back
Speaker 4: to the safe place. We're at Tarmwors. That's like an
Speaker 4: hour and ten north of the body side.
Speaker 2: Could the killer live in that direction?
Speaker 6: Yes? And what direction is that?
Speaker 4: That's north heading towards Picton and Camden.
Speaker 2: How far are we from the last location?
Speaker 4: Roughly four kilometers north of where the shoes were found.
Speaker 4: So we're out where the handbag was found with her
Speaker 4: credit cards in her purse inside the handbag and also
Speaker 4: her knocking and mobile phone. And you can see there's
Speaker 4: a fence just here, but there's another fence just behind,
Speaker 4: so it's the fence behind. The handbag's been thrown up
Speaker 4: there towards the fence behind. So probably twenty fifteen twenty
Speaker 4: minutes from where we are. It's not to say the
Speaker 4: offender didn't run to this fence and throw it over,
Speaker 4: but it landed on the road side of the fire fence.
Speaker 4: And when the when the farmer came along and slashed
Speaker 4: that paddock he found he just happened to see the
Speaker 4: handbag on the other side of the fence, so again
Speaker 4: you can see the haste that's involved, and this is
Speaker 4: a pretty poor choice as well.
Speaker 2: Was the face plate of the CD player belonging to
Speaker 2: Rachelle found in that handbag?
Speaker 4: I believe it was, yes.
Speaker 3: And do you know anything about the missing stereo that
Speaker 3: was connected to that face.
Speaker 4: I think it's probably been stolen while the car has
Speaker 4: been parked there for several days and nights.
Speaker 3: After we finished recording at those key locations linked to
Speaker 3: the killer's movements, I wanted to ask Chris why she
Speaker 3: agreed to be involved in our investigation over twenty years later.
Speaker 4: You know, there are cases that you don't forget. This
Speaker 4: is one of them. A lot of work did go
Speaker 4: into this investigation. I was called in by Detective Inspector
Speaker 4: Mick Ashwood from Homicide Mixer, an excellent investigator, very far
Speaker 4: thinks laterally.
Speaker 9: He's very aware of.
Speaker 4: Tunnel vision as well, which you've got to be careful of.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I came on board when Mick asked. We've
Speaker 4: worked on other cases together and I did what I
Speaker 4: could to help Rachelle, and as I do for all cases,
Speaker 4: I work on to help the victim and their families
Speaker 4: and friends. And so when this opportunity came up, I thought, well, yeah, helps. Basically,
Speaker 4: if it helps, I would be pleased to help.
Speaker 2: Let's go back to Mick Ashwood.
Speaker 9: What was identified in the initial investigation was a sheet
Speaker 9: found about a kilometer from the scene. Now, when we
Speaker 9: looked at some of these exhibits like that some of
Speaker 9: the islands of the car, some processing took place, which
Speaker 9: is called trying to recover DNA, some swabbing occurred. Now
Speaker 9: that lead I think probably six months or a year
Speaker 9: into it the second investigation that there was a common
Speaker 9: DNA on a number of items, critically the bedsheet and
Speaker 9: some items in the car. The significance was that it
Speaker 9: was the same DNA.
Speaker 3: After processing the crime scene exhibits, police has discovered an
Speaker 3: unknown male DNA profile and they were desperate to identify
Speaker 3: the man it belonged to.
Speaker 4: There's no strong leads police in an Australian first sixty
Speaker 4: men to volunteer DNA samples.
Speaker 8: The testing is not compulsory, but probably say they can
Speaker 8: still rely on conventional methods of investigation.
Speaker 9: And then following this, you know it'll be luck.
Speaker 2: Now's the time to come forward because we're going to come.
Speaker 5: Looking for you.
Speaker 3: Detectives were asking anyone who could have crossed paths with
Speaker 3: Rochelle to volunteer their DNA.
Speaker 9: In consultation, we decided to do a mass screening DNA
Speaker 9: operation in the town of Camden. The whole idea of
Speaker 9: that is you use the energy of a mass screening
Speaker 9: DNA operation and they're quite successful our media strategy and
Speaker 9: we get samples from everyone. Now, in this particular case
Speaker 9: of a country was a week, a few days. We
Speaker 9: end up getting DNA samples from everyone that was person
Speaker 9: of interest in the case how long motorcycle group so
Speaker 9: that was six.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was massive and everyone was really supportive, couldn't
Speaker 6: help enough. They were quite happy to volunteer DNA. And
Speaker 6: it wasn't DNA that was going to be kept on file.
Speaker 6: It was only going to be used in Rochelle's case. Yeah,
Speaker 6: and it was huge and everyone in the community gave DNA.
Speaker 3: The size of that response shocked police, especially when a
Speaker 3: bunch of bikeis turned up, including sash.
Speaker 9: So we're standing in this balcony at I think it
Speaker 9: was Camden Police Station talking to the Sergeant Arms and
Speaker 9: the president of the chapter, and they changed from the
Speaker 9: old style bikis. This was well before what you have now.
Speaker 9: Back then there was no real shootings and stuff. They
Speaker 9: kept to themselves, but these are the new group. They
Speaker 9: had their long sleep sweaters which had their name down
Speaker 9: the side, the name of their club, their OMCG club,
Speaker 9: and they had bit of jewelry. So it was that
Speaker 9: start of the new generation of bikes. So we did
Speaker 9: a bit of work and talking to them, saying, well,
Speaker 9: come and give you a sample. Can we get your
Speaker 9: whole chapter in? Give some sample. It's got nothing to hide,
Speaker 9: and that way you know we won't be on your case.
Speaker 9: We can eliminate you.
Speaker 2: Did it surprise you when the Rebels bike is turned up?
Speaker 9: It did, But it also reaffirmed my thought that this
Speaker 9: is a red hair in place by someone because it
Speaker 9: takes a lot of hypothesis. The steps into an argument
Speaker 9: as to why Rachelle was associating with When it was
Speaker 9: put forward by one person.
Speaker 6: Heaven told Dad that Rochelle wanted to leave early on
Speaker 6: the Thursday to go to the Bargo Pub to meet
Speaker 6: someone at six pm. And if you trace it all back,
Speaker 6: Kevin's the only one that said that she was going
Speaker 6: to Bargo Pub and I think other people who have
Speaker 6: said it it was after.
Speaker 3: Police were close and the net was tightening on one man,
Speaker 3: Rochelle's boss, Kevin Correll. He was in the frame very
Speaker 3: early on because of his strange behavior in the days
Speaker 3: before and after Rochelle went missing.
Speaker 6: Kevin and Rachelle were quite close. He was like a
Speaker 6: father figure to her. She looked up to him. Unfortunately,
Speaker 6: so I called him and said she's missing, and I
Speaker 6: was beside myself and I remember getting off the phone
Speaker 6: and saying to Fiona, that was so weird. He's not
Speaker 6: concerned at all. Couldn't get off the phone quick enough.
Speaker 2: When she was missing.
Speaker 3: Did you talk to Kevin, given he was your colleague
Speaker 3: at Camden Holden, did you call him and do you
Speaker 3: remember that conversation with him at the time? Yep.
Speaker 7: And he was very aloof, very alooft, just very didn't
Speaker 7: even want to help, didn't want to didn't ask questions anything.
Speaker 6: He wasn't batility, helpful.
Speaker 2: He seemed concerned that something was missing there, he.
Speaker 7: Just did not care. And that is weird coming from
Speaker 7: someone who seemed so concerned about every other aspect of
Speaker 7: her life.
Speaker 5: He paints his picture at work as a loving coworker
Speaker 5: who deeply cares for Rochelle and her employment, etc. And
Speaker 5: then suddenly she goes missing, and well, so what and
Speaker 5: nothing's happened. He hasn't lefted, he doesn't have help, so
Speaker 5: she doesn't do anything, doesn't make any telephone cause he
Speaker 5: doesn't certainly assist a child's family of anything, and that's
Speaker 5: noted by them as well.
Speaker 6: I expected him to cancel all his plans and be
Speaker 6: there in ten minutes as fast as he possibly could
Speaker 6: while he was bringing everybody. He knew that was the
Speaker 6: because he had told Rachelle that he used to be
Speaker 6: a detective, which was bullshit looking back.
Speaker 10: When he came to work on that Friday morning, he
Speaker 10: was late, and he looked like shit. He looked really crappy,
Speaker 10: really like he hadn't slapped. And he left early on
Speaker 10: that Friday afternoon and saying he had a doctor's appointment too,
Speaker 10: but yeah, didn't want to help, didn't wasn't concerned. And
Speaker 10: I'm like this, You're.
Speaker 7: Concerned all the time, You're always you know, why are
Speaker 7: you not now she's missing? Like, why are you not concerned? Something?
Speaker 7: Something's not right there, doesn't sit well with me at all.
Speaker 5: And he's a suspect. By the way, it's carell there's
Speaker 5: no doubt about her. He's a red hot suspect. And
Speaker 5: here he is suddenly he doesn't want to get involved.
Speaker 5: Why what's a change in his personality? A change in
Speaker 5: his behavior? Is it something because something's bad happened and
Speaker 5: he knows about it and knows it's futile to go
Speaker 5: look for somebody that you already know is deceased. You
Speaker 5: don't want to get involved. You don't want to be there,
Speaker 5: you don't want to be seen. Some people prior to
Speaker 5: say a serious incident and that something's bad and you're
Speaker 5: you're involved, you know you're the offender. Something's bad happened. Well,
Speaker 5: then go into a state of withdrawal. They will go
Speaker 5: into hibernation that they won't speak to people. They're not
Speaker 5: the usual joy of yourself. Their habits become very obvious,
Speaker 5: and that night he's by himself, and following her disappearance,
Speaker 5: he's not really concerned about where she is.
Speaker 3: As those closest to Rochelle mourned her sudden loss, Kevin's
Speaker 3: unusual behavior didn't go unnoticed.
Speaker 2: Does any one particular person stand out to you at
Speaker 2: the funeral.
Speaker 1: Can you talk me through it, Kevin. I've just always
Speaker 1: felt incredibly uneasy about him.
Speaker 6: I doost.
Speaker 1: I remember staring at him the court case and he
Speaker 1: wouldn't make eye contact with me. I remember staring at
Speaker 1: him at the funeral and he wouldn't look at me.
Speaker 1: I remember the distance he had from everybody else at
Speaker 1: the funeral. He just made me feel uncomfortable. I something
Speaker 1: just didn't sit right with him.
Speaker 3: So tell me about the days that followed Rochelle's death.
Speaker 3: What happened next?
Speaker 11: Memory pretty somber environment at the shop. I held a
Speaker 11: regular meeting of managers at the shop, which would normally
Speaker 11: have included Kevin. I think it was the first meeting
Speaker 11: after the funeral. Kevin was quite upset, and I just said, look,
Speaker 11: leave the meeting just you're obviously not able to participate
Speaker 11: in the frame of mind you are, so just just
Speaker 11: when you go home or go back to your.
Speaker 2: Office, so just just leave, Kevin.
Speaker 3: Stephen Carrell strenuously denies any involvement in Rochelle's death. He
Speaker 3: has willingly participated in three records of interview with police.
Speaker 3: He voluntarily provided a DNA sample for comparison to material
Speaker 3: held by police investigators, and that could be an indication
Speaker 3: that he has nothing to hide. Kevin provided a detailed alibi.
Speaker 3: He says on the night Rochelle was killed, he left work,
Speaker 3: went shopping at Campbelltown, visited his girlfriend's house at Picton
Speaker 3: although she wasn't home, grabbed takeaway in Tarmil and recalled
Speaker 3: exactly what he ordered, being a fish cake, battered save
Speaker 3: a bagg of chips and a coke, and then went
Speaker 3: home and watched some Dawson's Creek on TV. He says
Speaker 3: he then went to a nearby servo to buy milk,
Speaker 3: and then he went to the pub, and then he
Speaker 3: came home where he eyned a shirt and watched some
Speaker 3: Big Brother on TV before falling asleep. No one can
Speaker 3: verify his alibi. We'll go deeper into Kevin's alibi soon,
Speaker 3: but let's talk about his family. Kevin's brother, Raymond Barry Cornwall,
Speaker 3: is a serial sex offender jail for raping multiple victims,
Speaker 3: including girls as young as thirteen.
Speaker 9: The sense of fear he created as a woman, you
Speaker 9: wouldn't leave the house, you wouldn't run in the parks.
Speaker 9: That's the fear that he had. He was very active,
Speaker 9: very fearful. He was one of the most active bad
Speaker 9: rapists in Sydney in a period probably you cover twenty
Speaker 9: to thirty years. Not saying that's the range of his offending.
Speaker 9: There's been others Northhollist, Sinclair rapists. He was clearly in
Speaker 9: that level. It's the offender that type. They're all bad,
Speaker 9: but this one that they need the constant gratification from
Speaker 9: instilling fear and wanting power over women. They get off
Speaker 9: on it, and they are sadistic people, you know, And
Speaker 9: he would be up there with some of the worst
Speaker 9: in the last last thirty forty years.
Speaker 3: Of course, Kevin is not responsible for his brother Raymond's crimes.
Speaker 3: Just because one brother is a certain way doesn't mean
Speaker 3: another is too. But it is an interesting fact. So
Speaker 3: many people have suffered at the hands of Raymond. Barry Cornwall,
Speaker 3: who's now a freeman. Court documents reveal his brother Kevin,
Speaker 3: visited him after his arrest at Bankstown Police Station in
Speaker 3: Sydney in nineteen ninety three. Cornwall confessed his disturbing crimes
Speaker 3: to his brother Kevin, who relayed the information to police.
Speaker 3: Raymond would serve fourteen years for those crimes, and when
Speaker 3: he was released, it wasn't long before he was offending again.
Speaker 3: The convicted pedophile is closely monitored by authorities to this day.
Speaker 3: The brothers no longer share the same surname. If something
Speaker 3: prompted Kevin to change his name, and by the time
Speaker 3: he ran the used cast sales department at Camden Holden
Speaker 3: in two thousand and one, he was Kevin Correll. Under
Speaker 3: his previous name Kevin Stephen Cornwall, he was accused of
Speaker 3: a series of.
Speaker 2: Violent sex attacks in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 3: However, Kevin denied the alleged conduct and was acquitted of
Speaker 3: all charges. And now forty years later, some of those
Speaker 3: alleged victims are telling their story. For Rochelle, it's not
Speaker 3: in dispute that the women you're about to hear from
Speaker 3: were assaulted. The he they all refer to is whoever
Speaker 3: committed these terrifying crimes. True Crime Australia is not saying
Speaker 3: Kevin is guilty of these crimes. We are only pointing
Speaker 3: out that there are reasonable grounds to suspect Kevin committed
Speaker 3: these crimes, and that's part of the reason he is
Speaker 3: a prime suspect in the suspected rape and murder of Rochelle.
Speaker 3: True Crime Australia is saying that there are reasonable grounds
Speaker 3: to think Kevin Carrell was involved in Rochelle's murder, not
Speaker 3: necessarily that he is guilty.
Speaker 2: On the next episode of Dear Rochelle.
Speaker 3: So the knock at the door, I opened it and
Speaker 3: it was banned instant valaclava.
Speaker 6: The knife was held up here. He pushed me back.
Speaker 6: I was walking down the hall to sh reshow him
Speaker 6: the loundrim and.
Speaker 7: That he pulled a knife on me.
Speaker 2: He just came straight at me and it was just
Speaker 2: closed hard fist. Proceeded to tell.
Speaker 6: Me that if I didn't do what he said, he
Speaker 6: would kill my kids.
Speaker 2: And I just went down.
Speaker 4: It was like.
Speaker 6: I just went smacked down on the bed.
Speaker 5: I did what he said.
Speaker 6: Any rape me, I remember thinking, holy shit, I'm gonna die.
Speaker 3: De Rochelle is a multimedia production from True Crime Australia.
Speaker 3: If you want to be the first to find out
Speaker 3: what happens next, go to deroshell dot com dot au.
Speaker 3: That's where News Corp Australia subscribe its get early access
Speaker 3: to podcast episodes and breaking news in our live investigation
Speaker 3: before anybody else, and you'll also find exclusive videos, interactive evidence,
Speaker 3: feature articles, and more. That's deroshell dot com dot a U,
Speaker 3: d E A R R A C h E W
Speaker 3: l E dot com dot a U. If you have
Speaker 3: any tips or confidential information to share with me, Ashley Hanson,
Speaker 3: please send an email to Deroshelle atnews dot com dot au.
Speaker 3: Our supervising producer and audio editor is Rhys Gunter Rachel Fountain,
Speaker 3: his executive producer and audio director. Our executive editor is
Speaker 3: Sarah Blake. Our senior journalist is Patrick carl Video editors
Speaker 3: are Gillian McNally, Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture editors
Speaker 3: are Jeff Darmannan and Christy Miller Sydy. Camera operators are
Speaker 3: Daniel Andrews and Oscar Viera, with sound designed by Martin Perolta.
Speaker 3: Thanks also to Greg Thompson and Lennie Pineries Show Burreo Fayguld,
Speaker 3: Vanessa Grahb Hailey Goddard, Stephen Grice, Charlotte Carp, Tina Coggins
Speaker 3: and Harry Hughes. Special thanks to the Daily Telegraph editor
Speaker 3: Ben English and dear Rochelle. Would not be possible without
Speaker 3: the help and O'm waivering support of Christy and Anne Childs,
Speaker 3: Mindy Wicks, Damian Loon and Rachelle's Friends. This podcast series
Speaker 3: is hosted and investigated by me Ashley Hanson