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Speaker 1: Get a team. Welcome to another installment the show. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Lillian is back on deck high.

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Speaker 2: Hello, how are you so good?

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Speaker 1: I love your voice every time you have like when

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Speaker 1: you and I just chatting, you're a little bit more bogan,

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Speaker 1: am I? Yeah? A little tiny bit. Well you're not

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Speaker 1: bogan at all, like the I'm the ten out of ten,

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Speaker 1: but you have this I don't know this beautiful radio voice.

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Speaker 1: Or we've spoken about it many times. But anyway, how's

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Speaker 1: your month been since we've spoken.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I feel like I'm all over the place actually,

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Speaker 3: like not like we.

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Speaker 1: Want to hear. We hope you're doing it hard like

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Speaker 1: normal humans, and we hope you're fucking up and getting up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's my life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you what are you struggling with? Tell us what

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Speaker 1: you struggle with? Make us feel good about ourselves?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think so many things. The years started out

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Speaker 3: pretty rough for us as a family. My mother in

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Speaker 3: law passed away and that was very soon after my

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Speaker 3: father in law passed away.

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Speaker 2: Wow, just like eleven months before.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that's tough. That's tough. Yeah, what when did

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Speaker 1: when did you mum in law pass away? What month

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Speaker 1: was that in January. Yeah, yeah, that's very recent, that's

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Speaker 1: and is it hard for you in the middle of that,

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Speaker 1: because like your first and foremost just a compassionate human,

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Speaker 1: that's that's who you are. Like psychology is not who

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Speaker 1: you are. That's your job, right, But do people expect

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Speaker 1: do people expect more of you because you're you in

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Speaker 1: the middle of like really tough situation.

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Speaker 3: It's possible. I think I put myself in that position

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: Also, Oh, it's really funny because I've been around a

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Speaker 3: lot of people. It might be just like a function

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Speaker 3: of being in your fifties, like people start passing away

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Speaker 3: around then, and so several people have had family members

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Speaker 3: pass away in my kind of circle. And one of

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Speaker 3: them said something really interesting because it was her stepfather

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Speaker 3: and she was in the position of supporting her mother

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Speaker 3: through that, and she described it as a hierarchy of grief. Wow,

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Speaker 3: And I thought, yes, that's what it feels like for

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Speaker 3: me too, because it's my mother in law and father

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Speaker 3: in law. Now, so even though they're like my parents

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Speaker 3: as well, they aren't actually my parents. They had a

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Speaker 3: history that's much longer with their own children. So my

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Speaker 3: husband and his two sisters so they kind of get

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Speaker 3: to grief at that highest level, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 3: Like I'm grieving just as much, but maybe you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't know because you can't really quantify it, but

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Speaker 3: there's a hierarchy to it. So I need so like

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Speaker 3: I want to be the support, yeah, at that level.

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Speaker 3: And then you've got like so you've got the actual

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Speaker 3: like immediate family, and then you've got your own children. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And you know, I guess also because I've had some

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Speaker 3: people pass away in my.

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Speaker 2: Life, but not.

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Speaker 3: That i've been well, that I've been close to, but

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Speaker 3: maybe it's like proximity, Like they weren't in my vicinity,

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Speaker 3: so I couldn't really do that much because I moved

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Speaker 3: here when I was pretty young. So yeah, some of

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Speaker 3: the people passed away, they're like, you know, in America,

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Speaker 3: can't really do anything but feel bad, but here it's

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Speaker 3: like very very close. But I've been, I guess, fortunate

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Speaker 3: throughout my life that I haven't had a lot of

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Speaker 3: people pass away on me. So it's kind of like

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Speaker 3: in some ways a new experience doing it from this proximity,

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Speaker 3: I suppose. And then my children.

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Speaker 2: Are having to go through their first experience is quite young.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, look at you being a mom and

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Speaker 1: normal and a human. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So that's been a real challenge this year. I'm challenge

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Speaker 3: in the way of being the support person, yeah, and

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Speaker 3: also being somebody who's lost.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, really important people, do you.

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Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes when like, probably very similar to

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Speaker 1: you in that I've had what I call a second

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Speaker 1: mum my whole life. Who's my mum's best friend who

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Speaker 1: passed away, who I spoke about recently also in January.

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Speaker 2: Oh I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and her four daughters were like my four sisters, Yes,

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Speaker 1: like my four sisters. And there we're still very much

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Speaker 1: in each other's lives. I love all the girls. We're

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Speaker 1: all intertwined. I know all their kids, all their partners,

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah. Right, and so the kid, the only child,

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Speaker 1: me who grew up in this parallel, you know, proximity

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Speaker 1: to this family, and we did everything together. And then

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Speaker 1: so when Ray, my other mom died on you know,

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Speaker 1: just after Christmas, and I spoke at the funeral and

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Speaker 1: all these really beautiful blessings that I had gifted to me,

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Speaker 1: I like part of me just wanted to fucking fall apart,

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Speaker 1: because that's how I felt, but part of me is like,

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Speaker 1: you can't fall apart. You can't fall apart because you

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Speaker 1: have to be this for everyone else today, especially which

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Speaker 1: and so I felt this kind of and I know

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Speaker 1: everybody you know, it's such a swirling massive emotions and

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Speaker 1: feelings and states. But I thought, right, I can't lose

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Speaker 1: my shit today. I have to be strong for my mum,

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Speaker 1: to her best friend, and I need to be strong

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Speaker 1: for the girls. And I felt a bit guilty for

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Speaker 1: feeling as sad as I did, because it's like, you, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is their actual mom. It's not your actual mum,

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Speaker 1: so shut the fuck up, you know. But what was

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Speaker 1: funny was I had this intersection of sadness and guilt

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Speaker 1: and all of he's weird. I'm like, because grief, you

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Speaker 1: know this better than me. You're an actual psychologist. I'm

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Speaker 1: just a shitkicker who pays attention. But like, grief is

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Speaker 1: such a diverse response, Like, yeah, everyone grieves differently like it.

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Speaker 1: And I know this is an obvious but there's ain't

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Speaker 1: a four step plan. And I just noticed in the

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Speaker 1: middle of my sadness and my grief, I noticed this guilt,

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Speaker 1: like for being such a big baby which I wasn't.

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Speaker 1: I know, I'm being hard on myself, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you don't deserve to be as sad as they are,

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Speaker 1: so shut the fuck up and just go and look

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Speaker 1: after everyone.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting.

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Speaker 3: That's really interesting too, because I feel like guilt plays

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Speaker 3: a big part in it. I think because it's not

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Speaker 3: only like what you're saying, which is really interesting, but

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Speaker 3: also when you have to just get on with your life.

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Speaker 2: That's hard too, Like.

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Speaker 3: Life just goes on and there's like nothing that you

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Speaker 3: can do about that. And also like obviously I haven't

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Speaker 3: talked to that much because I'm clearly having break.

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Speaker 1: Down right now. You know what, doctor Lillian's getting therapy

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Speaker 1: and I'm not a good job. I'm not even going

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Speaker 1: to charge it. That's what a good black client. You're

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Speaker 1: the best, thank you.

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Speaker 3: But like you know, if you've got like if my husband,

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Speaker 3: my husband's been obviously struggling. He lost both his parents

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Speaker 3: in the last year. So if I'm struggling, like I

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Speaker 3: don't feel guilty about that like you do, but I

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Speaker 3: also don't want to bring it up because I don't

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Speaker 3: want him to struggle. If he's having a moment where

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Speaker 3: he's feeling. Okay, I'm not going to like spoil it

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Speaker 3: by bringing it up. But then I'm like, well then

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Speaker 3: I'm not acknowledging it at all, And so that carries

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Speaker 3: with it some guilt, sorry.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like knowing what to say and what not to

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Speaker 1: say and when, because like I know, with the four girls, right,

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Speaker 1: the daughters, I could say one thing to one of

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Speaker 1: the girls and they laugh their ass off because we're

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Speaker 1: having a fond, funny memory of their mum and what

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Speaker 1: about when she did this fucking stupid yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And you'd say that to one of the other daughters

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Speaker 1: and it might be a full breakdown. So so you know,

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Speaker 1: what would make somebody smile and laugh reflecting on this

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Speaker 1: silly thing that their mom did might evoke like a

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Speaker 1: really different response in somebody else. But it's the exact

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Speaker 1: same stimulus, you know. And you're like just trying to

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Speaker 1: navigate the fucking mindfield of emotions around all of this

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Speaker 1: when you want to, I mean, your intention is I

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Speaker 1: just want to be whatever you need. Yeah, but they

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Speaker 1: don't even know what they need.

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Speaker 2: And you won't know necessarily until you cross a line, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, in some ways, yeah, I think it's it's

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Speaker 3: really common to cross the line, and I think you

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Speaker 3: would just have to, like, you know, sometimes take chances

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Speaker 3: and see. Like, but yeah, everyone's personality is different, everyone's

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Speaker 3: kind of way of grieving is different, everyone's readiness is

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Speaker 3: going to be different. And so you do get to

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Speaker 3: know like the different you know, like my husband and

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Speaker 3: his two sisters, you know, they're processing things in their

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Speaker 3: own unique personal ways, and yeah, my way would be different,

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Speaker 3: and my kid's way is different, you know, my parents,

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Speaker 3: my parents, you know, and their ways of reacting are

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Speaker 3: different as well.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's a real it's a real beast,

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 3: I think until you really confront it yourself or like

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Speaker 3: have that experience, you don't really completely understand.

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Speaker 1: And nobody misses it, like nobody avoids it. Like everyone

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Speaker 1: is going to have to deal like something we don't

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Speaker 1: have to deal with in our life, right, Like some

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Speaker 1: people never are going to deal with poverty, They're never

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Speaker 1: going to deal with things, you know, physically assaulted. Perhaps

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Speaker 1: we know many people are. But everyone's going to deal

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Speaker 1: with grief. Everyone's going to deal with someone that they

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Speaker 1: love dying. It's an unavoidable part of the human experience.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, even though we know that there's no training

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Speaker 1: for it, I don't know what training for grief would

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Speaker 1: look like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, there isn't. It's like this, we have

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Speaker 2: this protective.

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Speaker 3: Denial I think around death in general, like our own

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Speaker 3: and others, and I think that's a good thing. We

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Speaker 3: don't want to be thinking about that all the time.

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Speaker 3: I mean, people who do get stuck in thinking about

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Speaker 3: death and dying can be very anxious or depressed. We

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Speaker 3: certainly don't want that. But at the same time, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's part of It's part of everyone's life. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, it's been really interesting moving through with

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Speaker 3: the kids and really like helping them understand.

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Speaker 2: Out of how you move through it.

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Speaker 3: And also it's been really different with both you know,

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Speaker 3: both my mother in law and father in law. They

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Speaker 3: the readiness for us for them to pass away was

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Speaker 3: very different, right, Like they both passed away within within twelve.

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Speaker 2: Hours, like of having any.

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Speaker 3: Symptoms of like distress, which was very fast.

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Speaker 1: Twelve I was from wow.

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Speaker 2: From yeah, it was. I mean it's so I mean,

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Speaker 2: you don't usually hear that. I think in a lot

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Speaker 2: of ways that's a blessing.

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Speaker 3: Like my father in law was feeling fine, and then

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Speaker 3: the next day he wasn't and he went to the

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Speaker 3: hospital and twelve hours later he passed away with his

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Speaker 3: whole family around him, and it was really beautiful, except

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Speaker 3: unfortunately my husband had gone on a conference and wasn't there.

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Speaker 2: He was overseas, So that was like that was the

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Speaker 2: hardest part of it, that he couldn't be there.

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Speaker 3: But my father in law was, you know, more frail.

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Speaker 3: He was just about to turn ninety one. We weren't

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Speaker 3: not expecting it to happen at some point soon, and

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Speaker 3: so I think there was immense grief around it. And

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Speaker 3: it was my kid's very first experience of that and

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Speaker 3: seeing someone dying, and you know, they were there when

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Speaker 3: he not when he passed away, but like very close

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Speaker 3: to that. Just see, that was quite a shock and

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Speaker 3: traumatic event, I think as well. But then and so

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Speaker 3: my role was just like okay, answering questions, you know,

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Speaker 3: the practical stuff, how do you move through it, what's

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Speaker 3: going to happen next, whereas my mother in law was

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Speaker 3: like completely unexpected. Yeah, like we expected her to live

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Speaker 3: for like another ten years, you know. So and that

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Speaker 3: happened within the same amount of time, like her back hurt.

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Speaker 3: I thought we thought, oh, probably kidney stones or something

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Speaker 3: like that, and then it wasn't that, So it was

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Speaker 3: just like So I think that that in a lot

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Speaker 3: of ways has been harder to process because nobody was

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Speaker 3: nobody was expecting or ready for that. So not only

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Speaker 3: is it the other parent, but it's also what the

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Speaker 3: hell like she was meant to be around for ages longer.

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Speaker 1: So I think there's a real relationship between. It's funny

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Speaker 1: because expectations, right, you know, when you like you kind

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Speaker 1: of expected your father in law because he was old

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Speaker 1: and his life, but probably not as quick as it happened, right,

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Speaker 1: But with your mom, you're thinking your belief, your expectation

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Speaker 1: was or your mum in law should be around for

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Speaker 1: ten years, right. And I feel like that in life,

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Speaker 1: our expectations often set us up for pain based on

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Speaker 1: or depending on what we're expecting. It's like when someone

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Speaker 1: says to me, I really expect my partner to do

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Speaker 1: this or be that, or what has he done the

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Speaker 1: last time? What has he done the last hundred times?

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Speaker 1: That's probably the best predictor of future behavior. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I'm kind of digressing a little bit, but it is.

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Speaker 1: It's when it comes from nowhere or seemingly comes from nowhere,

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Speaker 1: it's tough. But I remember I was spoken about this

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Speaker 1: once on the show. But a friend of mine's dad

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Speaker 1: passed away. Loved his dad and got through the whole

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Speaker 1: the funeral, the everything the family was, you know, obviously stated.

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Speaker 1: And I saw him about I mean I saw him,

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Speaker 1: you know, I was at the funeral, and I saw

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Speaker 1: him regularly. And then we sat down about four, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, four or five weeks later, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: how are you going? And he's like, yep. And he

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Speaker 1: had had a blue with his sister, not a blue,

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Speaker 1: but an issue with his sister, who was mad at him.

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Speaker 1: Listen to this. She was mad at him because he

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Speaker 1: wasn't grieving enough or grieving properly like she. He hadn't

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Speaker 1: grieved the way she thought he should be grieving, right,

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, what, okay, what are you doing wrong?

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Speaker 1: And because he hadn't had and I don't mean this

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Speaker 1: as an insult into anyone, and no one knows what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about, because she had a full on, understandable

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Speaker 1: emotional breakdown. She was devastating all of that which is

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Speaker 1: completely understandable and not a bad response. It's just a response, right,

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Speaker 1: he didn't have that, like he's devastated and I know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but he just didn't have the tears and snot and

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Speaker 1: the on the ground and the why why and the

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Speaker 1: out of control emotion. And I'm like, wow, isn't it

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Speaker 1: like you're dealing with that and then you're getting hate

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Speaker 1: from your sister because you're not doing it the right way?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like you said, people express their their emotions differently,

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Speaker 3: and it's not always something you can see. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: And that's for any anything, not necessarily you know, grief,

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Speaker 3: but anxiety and depression and you know, stress for some

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Speaker 3: people is very obvious and you can see it and

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Speaker 3: others can't see it at all.

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Speaker 2: It's all inside.

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Speaker 1: And we always look at others' behavior, obviously because there's

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Speaker 1: no other way. But we look at how they behave

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Speaker 1: through the way, through the lens of our behavior or

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Speaker 1: what we think is good, right or appropriate, Like we're

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Speaker 1: judging their behavior through our lens.

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Speaker 2: That's right, because if.

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Speaker 1: I responded that way, well, I'd be an uncaring sociopath.

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Speaker 1: So therefore you're not grieving enough. For Dad. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, well, maybe I'm just not like you.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I'm more devastated by you. But it it manifests

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Speaker 1: itself differently, you know. Yeah, it's I don't know if

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Speaker 1: this is good or bad. And my mum hates it,

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Speaker 1: and Melissa, who you know, she hates it. But I

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Speaker 1: I kind of make obviously not when people that I

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Speaker 1: love have just died, but I kind of make a

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Speaker 1: little bit light of death, like you know. It's like

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Speaker 1: I'll say to Melissa, well, like the other day she

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Speaker 1: was she was cloning my voice on AI.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I saw that that post about that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, so she literally could and I said, well, look,

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Speaker 1: this is good because I mean I could be dead

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Speaker 1: soon and it means you can carry on with the show.

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Speaker 1: I said, you just need to and she's stop it,

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Speaker 1: stop it. I'm like, well, why else would you be

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Speaker 1: doing this because you could literally do another two thousand

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Speaker 1: episodes just using my voice. And and she does not

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Speaker 1: like it. She knows I'm joking, I'm fucking right, but

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Speaker 1: she does not like it. And even like, Mum's fucking

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Speaker 1: eighty five, right, and I drive up on the weekend

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Speaker 1: and she's like, drive carefully because it's very busy. It's

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Speaker 1: Hans act that to that today it says lots of

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Speaker 1: people out, and it's also it's a bit slippy on it,

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Speaker 1: like this is my eighty five year old mum telling

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Speaker 1: me how the fuck to drive to her house? Right,

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Speaker 1: And I go and I go, mum, and she's like, well,

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Speaker 1: I go, listen to me. I'm not going to take

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Speaker 1: care at all. I'm going to be reckless. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to drive way too. And she knows I'm kidding, but

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Speaker 1: she hates right. But I think with me, that's because

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Speaker 1: I've had a bunch of people that I really loved die,

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Speaker 1: like a bunch of a bunch of people, you know,

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Speaker 1: like starting starting early. You know, my first ever, my

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Speaker 1: first ever employee in Harper's, my gym's. His name was

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Speaker 1: Mattie Matthew and we work together all day, every day,

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Speaker 1: three years. Breakfast together, lunch together, trained together, hung out together,

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Speaker 1: socialized together. And he died when he was twenty four,

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Speaker 1: my goodness. And then the next day at work he

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Speaker 1: wasn't there. And then when you're I think I was

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Speaker 1: twenty six and you're twenty six and you're carrying your

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Speaker 1: mate's coffin at his funeral, and then you're you know,

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Speaker 1: this is just not what you're meant to be doing

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Speaker 1: when you're twenty six, you know. And it kind of

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Speaker 1: went from there, and I was clearly not prepared, but

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Speaker 1: I just had to. And the other thing was and

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Speaker 1: this ain't about me, but it is on topic. So

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Speaker 1: Matey passed away, and then there was about I don't

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Speaker 1: know however many days later his funeral, but the day

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Speaker 1: that he passed away, you know, I had to turn

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Speaker 1: up the next day and train a bunch of clients

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Speaker 1: all day because that was my business, yea. And we

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Speaker 1: were and I had other trainers working for me, and

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Speaker 1: you know, we were doing I can't even remember, but

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Speaker 1: at that stage's probably a couple of hundred appointments a week,

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Speaker 1: two or three hundred appointments a week between me and

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Speaker 1: the rest of the crew, and so we couldn't just

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Speaker 1: cancel three hundred. So I remember turning up the next

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Speaker 1: day and I didn't want to talk about it. I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to talk to the team, I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to talk to my clients, and I remember just turning

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Speaker 1: up and just faking it and just just trying to

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Speaker 1: find a way to literally like twelve hours ago one

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Speaker 1: of my best friends in the world died or whatever

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Speaker 1: it was, you know, yeah, eighteen hours and thinking and

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Speaker 1: a few people said, why don't you just take the

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Speaker 1: week off? And I'm like, because I'll sit at home

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Speaker 1: and I'll be worse, and I don't think there's a

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Speaker 1: great option in the middle of that. But I remember

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Speaker 1: dealing with that and just trying to just trying to

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Speaker 1: survive and just trying to you know, just wait for

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Speaker 1: enough time elapse, time to elapse, so it wasn't so

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Speaker 1: fucking painful to them.

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Speaker 3: I mean, distraction can be really helpful, and you know,

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Speaker 3: like throwing yourself into doing things or like you know,

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Speaker 3: you're doing things that involve training and helping other people too,

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Speaker 3: that can be really really helpful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that sometimes you do need to do that.

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Speaker 3: Look, and sometimes people don't have a choice, Like sometimes

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Speaker 3: they just have they like don't have a choice.

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Speaker 2: They can't just take a week off or two weeks off.

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Speaker 2: They have to do something.

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Speaker 3: To make money or you know, for whatever reason. So

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Speaker 3: that can be really tough because then you are like

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Speaker 3: you are putting like this professional stance on closing closing

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Speaker 3: part of your like compartmentalizing your emotions so that you

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Speaker 3: can get something done, and again that that's perfectly reasonable

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Speaker 3: to do sometimes too. I don't think there's necessarily anything

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Speaker 3: wrong with that unless that's your like go to all

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Speaker 3: the time, you know, like to avoid painful emotions, that

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Speaker 3: that doesn't work as as your always strategy to distract,

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Speaker 3: but it can absolutely work as a sometimes.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking now, just as like all of the

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Speaker 1: really tough emotional things that people deal with, then also psychological, practical,

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Speaker 1: physic you know, people that are in abusive relationships and

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Speaker 1: the kind of the ongoing trauma that they deal with

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Speaker 1: in the middle of that, you know, they've got to

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Speaker 1: pay the bills or after the kids, or turn up

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Speaker 1: to work or go out in public and look like

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Speaker 1: everything's okay or whatever it is that they've got to do.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like, I'm like, what what I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about was, you know, thankfully you know, temporary albeit horrible

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Speaker 1: and painful. But for other people, like their life is

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Speaker 1: for some people, their life is kind of all part

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Speaker 1: of their life is ongoing trauma, ongoing grief.

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Speaker 2: Because that's very true.

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Speaker 1: It's not a short thing. It's it's a permanent part

401
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Speaker 1: of their existence with no clear easy path out. I

402
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Speaker 1: mean I think about I Mean, the obvious one that

403
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Speaker 1: comes to me is, you know, women in abusive relationships

404
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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, man, imagine dealing with that imagine And

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be you know, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to make it down, but it's just true. It's like

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Speaker 1: that that's reality for some people. Is is that every

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Speaker 1: day you're going to be sad or anxious or scared

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Speaker 1: or all of that, and there's no silver lining that

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Speaker 1: you can see. Yeah, and then you've got to walk

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Speaker 1: out of the house, you know, and do whatever you've

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Speaker 1: got to function. You've got to operate. You've got to

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Speaker 1: in some cases protect and feed and cloth of your

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Speaker 1: kids and do your thing and go to work and

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Speaker 1: make some bucks or whatever it is that you've got

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Speaker 1: to do.

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Speaker 2: Like, yeah, that's really true. And I think that.

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Speaker 3: When sometimes you see people emphasize mindset as like.

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Speaker 2: The thing that you need to.

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Speaker 3: Help everything in your life, like you just don't have

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Speaker 3: the right mindset. It's like, you know what, that's mindset's

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Speaker 3: so important. I'm not saying it isn't, but there are

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Speaker 3: circumstances that people are going through that you have no

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Speaker 3: idea about. And there are real actual obstacles getting in

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Speaker 3: the way of someone maybe reaching their goals or having

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Speaker 3: a healthy lifestyle, or being able to regulate their emotions

427
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Speaker 3: or have you know, sustained their relationships or whatever, do

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Speaker 3: a good job at work, that they might actually.

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Speaker 2: Have no power to do anything about.

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Speaker 3: Yes, correct, And we I think really need to be

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Speaker 3: more mindful of the messages you know, that are out

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Speaker 3: there or are put out there, or that we put

433
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: out there. That you know that there's just like one

434
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 3: key like to life like and if there is one,

435
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 3: it's it's mindset. Well there isn't and mindset is, like

436
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 3: I said, important, but there's like so many other things

437
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 3: that are important.

438
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: I agree with you and the whole you know, I

439
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: can imagine how fucking frustrating it must be for people

440
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: who are really in extremely complicated even dangerous situations where

441
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: when when people are going just.

442
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: Try harder, Yeah, email was brilliant.

443
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just pick up your bottom lip and soldier on.

444
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: It's yeah, that is that must drive them nuts. And

445
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: there's you know, and such a lack of awareness even

446
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: for me, I realize, I don't there's so much I

447
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: don't understand because I haven't been in the middle of it,

448
00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: but I do. I do know that there are people

449
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: in those situations, and I've worked with some of them,

450
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: and I've worked with that X and alcoholics are in

451
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: extreme pain, and so I have a little bit of

452
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: an insight. But when I then I revert back to

453
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: my life and my situation, I'm like, shut the fuck up.

454
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: You have nothing to complain about. What totally privileged. Your

455
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: life is a fucking Disney movie compared to many people.

456
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: So I don't feel sorry for yourself ever, So that

457
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: that kind of keeps me in check, you know.

458
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's Yeah, I think that's important.

459
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 3: I mean that's like, yeah, it keeps us in check,

460
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 3: but also helps us to be grateful, but also helps

461
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 3: us be really empathic.

462
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

463
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 3: I think even going through this experience, like any painful

464
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 3: experience you go through, the if you're paying attention to

465
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: you know the things that the good things that could

466
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 3: come out of it. I think one of the main

467
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 3: ones is empathy and compassion because now you've got it

468
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 3: from a lived experience place, but not only necessarily for

469
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 3: your specific situation, but just.

470
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: Knowing that.

471
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 3: Other people are probably going through stuff that you don't

472
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 3: know anything about. So if you see somebody who's having

473
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 3: a bad day you know, or you know, says something

474
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 3: what are inappropriate or is a bit irritable or you know,

475
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 3: all sorts of things that we see when we're out

476
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 3: and about right that you know, with people that we

477
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 3: don't know, or even people that we do, it's like, well,

478
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 3: do we actually know the whole story, like what's actually

479
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 3: going on for this person? And we might never know

480
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 3: what that is, but we could be more I guess

481
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 3: or less judgmental when we're seeing these behaviors that other

482
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 3: people might display from time to time.

483
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think that's just having empathy and kindness

484
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: and realizing that even with you know, like my mum.

485
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: I love my mum. Of course everyone knows that, but

486
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: like for Mum, a little, a very little thing can

487
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: produce like a one out of one problem can be

488
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: a fifteen out of ten problem for mom. And it's

489
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: like part of me wants to go, M'm literally creating

490
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: a fucking problem settled down, But that doesn't help, right,

491
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: of course that doesn't help, And of course that's not

492
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: the right thing to say. So I I just I

493
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: listen to her, I talk about it. I understand her

494
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: level of emotion and I understand her state. Like part

495
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 1: of me wants to just fucking fix it. That's not

496
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: going to help it. Part of me wants to explain

497
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: to her why she's wrong a disproportionate response. Right, I

498
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: know that's stupid and I know that's me getting in

499
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: the way, But like, the loving thing to do is

500
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: just listen and just then move towards a solution with

501
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: her and then tell her, yeah, it's it's going to

502
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: be all right. I'll fix it or we'll fix it,

503
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: and and then she's okay. But you have to let

504
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: her voice her fear, yeah, and not you know, just

505
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: even if it's even if the fear is completely irrational

506
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: and disproportionate, Yeah, it doesn't matter because to her it's

507
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: neither of those things. To her, it's one hundred percent

508
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: legitimate and real.

509
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

510
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 1: So what I'm doing is I'm judging her reality with

511
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: my reality and telling her to be more like me

512
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: or how fucking arrogant? Hey mom, I think I'm better,

513
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: I think like really really, So yeah, that's that's been

514
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: and as you I mean, you know that. But yeah,

515
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: my dad eighty six in a minute, and I did it.

516
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: I took up some stuff the other day to do

517
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: a basic workout with him, So we're recording this Monday Saturday.

518
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: I was up there and I did a workout with

519
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: him in his chair. I got him up on his

520
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: feet and did a few things. But his level of

521
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: function at the minute's pretty low physiologically. And yeah, he

522
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: like the things that I tell him to do that

523
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: he could do that are pretty easy to do. Most

524
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: of the things he won't do, Like he'll tell me

525
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: he's going to do him and then he doesn't. And

526
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: part of me wants to go, listen, cham you're going

527
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: to die three years before you need to, so fucking

528
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: do this stuff on you know, Like I took him

529
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: equipment and yeah, so it's but I just I don't

530
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: do any of that. I just love him, just support him,

531
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: and I just I try to be which I'm not always,

532
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: but I'm pretty good. I think I try to just

533
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: be compassionate with both of them without time.

534
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's a real exercise. And I think

535
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 3: patience and but you know what, the story about your

536
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 3: mother made me think of a couple of things. One

537
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 3: was there's a really great video. You can find it

538
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 3: on YouTube. I'm happy to send it to you or

539
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 3: post it if you want. It's called It's not about

540
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: the nail.

541
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: I've used it.

542
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: Have you seen it? Isn't it so good?

543
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: I used to actually use that in lectures.

544
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 2: Yes, say I do too.

545
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, well, explain, No, don't explain. It's just

546
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: it's not about the nile. It's on YouTube.

547
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's basically, like I mean, what it explains

548
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 3: is why why validation works so well? So instead of

549
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 3: being the problem solver, fix it solution focused person, when

550
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 3: someone tells comes to you with a problem, no matter

551
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 3: how you think about it, whether you think it's rational

552
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: or irrational, the most the most helpful thing to do

553
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 3: is to validate that person's experience and then you might

554
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 3: get somewhere.

555
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: So that it made me think of that.

556
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 3: The other thing it made me think of was when

557
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 3: I was working in public mental health. I used to

558
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 3: work on the inpatient psychiatric wards and the crisis assessment

559
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 3: teams and early psychosis and things like that, and we

560
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 3: had a lot of clients or who had schizophrenia, and

561
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 3: so you know, one of the main symptoms of that

562
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 3: is that they have delusions, which are strongly held beliefs.

563
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: That are not based in reality. Right.

564
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 3: So one of the things that we learned as clinicians

565
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,919
Speaker 3: was how you talk to people who have strongly held

566
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 3: beliefs that are not based in reality, and also teach

567
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 3: families how to talk to their loved one because the

568
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 3: instinct is to correct them, to say that they're wrong, right,

569
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 3: to show.

570
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 2: Them that they're wrong. You know, see there's no cameras.

571
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 3: And that have the light bulber, or no one's spying

572
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 3: on you, or you know, whatever the delusion might be.

573
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 3: They're really common ones. A lot of them are more

574
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 3: paranoid in nature. But what we teach families is, like

575
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 3: you said, you listen, you validate not the belief. You're

576
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 3: not wanting to validate something that's not valid, but you

577
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 3: validate their emotions. Yeah, so you pay attention to what

578
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 3: you don't have to pay attention to the content. I

579
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 3: think we get so caught up in the content of

580
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 3: what people say and then how we can help them

581
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: with the content, rather than what's the emotion underlying? What

582
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 3: are they actually worried about, what's making Are they feeling anxious?

583
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 3: Are they feeling guilty, they're feeling sad, are they're feeling overwhelmed,

584
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 3: and then talk to them about that.

585
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 1: So good.

586
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 3: So you can validate emotions even if you don't agree

587
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 3: with what they're.

588
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: Saying, even if you don't think they're appropriate. Appropriate emotions

589
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: for the level of dry or lack of drama.

590
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 3: Well, see, the emotions probably appropriate. The intensity of the

591
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 3: emotion isn't. So you can still validate the emotion without

592
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 3: validating the intensity of the emotion, right.

593
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: But what you can do is validate the emotion but

594
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: also understand, not agree or align with, but understand the

595
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: intensity of the emotion. It's like there are certain people

596
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: that you know, like, for example, for some people, walking

597
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: on stage and talking to a group of people is

598
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: pretty much the scariest thing for them that they do.

599
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 2: A lot of people like for.

600
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: A lot of people, And through my highs, I'm like,

601
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: that's Tuesday, right, That's just you know, like tomorrow I've

602
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: got a half day gig in the city, and then

603
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: the next morning I've got a half day gig on

604
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: the Gold Coast. Tonight I've got my you know, MYNU

605
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: mentoring groups that's kicking off, and it's like these not

606
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: things on any level that I worry about, Like there's

607
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 1: zero fear, but there's significant excitement and anticipation.

608
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:08,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not.

609
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 1: That I'm better or worse, or right or wrong. It's

610
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: just that my reaction around that particular stimulus is very

611
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: different from a lot of people. Yeah, and so to

612
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: try to understand when I'm talking to someone who's literally

613
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: got to get on stage for twenty five seconds and

614
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: introduce someone, and they worry about that for two weeks, right,

615
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: Like they're going to get up on stage introduce someone

616
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: that's doing something and they don't Like I've literally had

617
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: people who hardly slept for the three nights leading up

618
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: to that twenty five second.

619
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not surprised at all. Yeah, No, totally. And

620
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: you're right, like, we're all different.

621
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 3: So, and we're different from a brain based level, like

622
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 3: a biological level, but also our personalities are different, our

623
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 3: experiences are different. We are going to have different reactions

624
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 3: and responses to different situations.

625
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: If you rocked up at my house tomorrow and you said, Craig,

626
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 1: I know this is short notice, but here's my one

627
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 1: year old. I need you to look after him until tonight.

628
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: I'll be I'd be terrified, do you know what I mean?

629
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: Like something that the majority of the world could do

630
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: without thinking, which is looking after a kid. You know,

631
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: I don't know that's true, but I mean there are

632
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are very good at it,

633
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: you know, like a lot of amazing women and some men,

634
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: of course, but it tends to be women that are

635
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 1: more the caregivers and looking after the one year olds.

636
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: I guess. But if you if you gave me that responsibility,

637
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: I'd be fucking terrified because I've done I've never done it.

638
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: And so my point is for what many people would

639
00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: be not effortless, but certainly not fear producer.

640
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 3: Like you know.

641
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: So I guess it's just context dependent, situation dependent, task dependent.

642
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: There are so many things that I'm scared of that

643
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: other people wouldn't be scared of at all, you know.

644
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: So it ain't right or wrong, good or bad, it's

645
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: just oh well, of course, you know. So when I

646
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: talk to people who are or terrified of that twenty

647
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: five seconds, I totally understand I'm not.

648
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, like you've told me this before,

649
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 3: that they're almost one hundred percent of the time you're

650
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 3: comfortable talking in front of people.

651
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: But if you were put in a situation where you had.

652
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 3: To do a stand up comedy routine other people, you

653
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 3: wouldn't be able to cope with that. Well, you say

654
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 3: you want I don't know if I believe that, But

655
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,479
Speaker 3: that's scared. That's something that scares you one hundred percent.

656
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: And I tell you what else scares me, and I'm

657
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: no good at it is standing in front of four

658
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: or five professors at university. Oh yes, who are doing

659
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: you know one of my kind of progress checks? You

660
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: know they're called academic milestones, right, and in my course

661
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 1: or in my program, there's four of them. Fortunately I'm

662
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: through or four. But if you ever want to see

663
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:26,439
Speaker 1: me look inept, uncomfortable, stupid, because I realize, because I'm

664
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: so dependent on my ability to talk about pretty much

665
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: what I want in front of and go where I

666
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: want and run the show and be funny and tell

667
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: a story and be cheeky and use my charisma and

668
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: read the room and be freestyle, well all of that

669
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: goes out the window in that particular setting and that context.

670
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: They don't give a fuck about. They don't even know

671
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: that they need to know, because I'm not anyone but

672
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: they don't know who Craig Harper is. They just know

673
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: I'm a student doing a PhD. Yeah, so you rock

674
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: up and you go, oh, this is my research, this

675
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: is what I've done, and then they grill you lock motherfuckers. Yeah,

676
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: I don't care if feel comfortable or uncomfortable if you

677
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: file or well that might be care and they're not bad.

678
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: That's just their job.

679
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 2: Yes, it's for me.

680
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one context where speaking publicly I can terrifying.

681
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, context dependent.

682
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 2: Right, totally. I remember having to do that. I remember

683
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 2: in my during.

684
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 3: My PhD, I had to we had to present at

685
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 3: several times, not just in front of the professors who

686
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 3: were involved in our research, but like all the whole

687
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 3: faculty and students were invited to hear our presentation and

688
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 3: ask questions. Oh my gosh, and like you don't know

689
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 3: what people are going to ask, and so because you

690
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 3: don't know what they're going to ask, you can't prepare for.

691
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: Like I'm such a preparer, So like I want to know.

692
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 3: I want to know what's going to be asked, how

693
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 3: I'm going to answer it, like literally word for word,

694
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 3: how I'm going to answer something. And so I remember

695
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 3: once at one of the presentations, I actually planted a

696
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 3: question with.

697
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,919
Speaker 2: One of one of my friends who was in the courts. Yeah,

698
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 2: and like, ask this question, I can answer it.

699
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 3: But she was such a bad actor, like you could

700
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 3: totally tell she wasn't actually answered, like asking the question genuinely.

701
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 3: It was like she was reading it off the script.

702
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 3: So the whole place was like, Haha, that's hilarious little question.

703
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's what anxiety can do to you. To

704
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 3: try to control it as much as possible. But yeah,

705
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 3: it's good, it's good for you. I've noticed since COVID

706
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 3: because I haven't done as many in person things. I

707
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 3: used to do in person things all the time. I

708
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 3: used to run workshops, i used to run groups, like all.

709
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 3: It was like part of my job.

710
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: I used to do it all the time.

711
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 3: And since COVID, it's been like most of the stuff

712
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 3: that I've done has been online. So I'm happy, Like

713
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 3: I'm really happy to present things, but it's been almost

714
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 3: exclusively online for like the last five years, so I

715
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 3: know that i'll be if I'm doing I've had an

716
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 3: experience fairly recently where I've gone in and done something

717
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 3: in person and I really challenged myself too, because I

718
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 3: didn't I didn't do the whole prep that I normally do,

719
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 3: and the slides and the everything was you know, I know,

720
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 3: it was like, what am I doing? I shouldn't be doing.

721
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: What's like I was?

722
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 2: I was so nicured.

723
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: Did you take your favorite video it's not about the Nile?

724
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: Did you take that?

725
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 2: I didn't.

726
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 3: No, all I took was one It was one slide

727
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 3: with a drawing on it and then a worksheet and

728
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 3: I got people to analyze the drawing and then answer

729
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 3: questions and then we just had a discussion about it.

730
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 3: And so I had no way of knowing what people

731
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 3: were going to think about it, how they were going

732
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 3: to interpret it, what questions they were going to ask,

733
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 3: where the discussion was going to go.

734
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 2: I had some ideas about where I wanted it to go.

735
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I couldn't control any of those variables,

736
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 3: and so yeah, I was superner.

737
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 2: I probably didn't sleep that.

738
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: Night, That's hilarious. I didn't.

739
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 2: Well.

740
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: I did a gig recently. Oh, I think their name

741
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: was Violine. I should give them a shout out. I apologize.

742
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's byline anyway, This company was like

743
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: two or three weeks ago, and it was mainly dudes.

744
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: It was mainly blokes and a relatively new company and

745
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: all the blokes kind of blokey blokes who tradees and

746
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 1: install stuff. And the owners of the company were great

747
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: husband and wife, but everyone else in the room was

748
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: just dudes and they've never done a professional development day. Wow,

749
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,919
Speaker 1: And oh my god, it was so funny. I rocked

750
00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: in there and they're like, what's this fucking bullshit? Like like,

751
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: what is this dicka going to psychoanalysis or something? Is he?

752
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,919
Speaker 1: Or you know? And it's funny because you I said

753
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: to Melissa when I finished, if that was a like

754
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 1: a lot of speakers would have really struggled because they

755
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: go in with a prepared thing, right where basically it's

756
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: scripted and there's whatever. They've got their fifty slides and

757
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: we start at slide one, then we end up a

758
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 1: slight fifty and there's no deviating. There's no freestyling, there's

759
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: no interactivity or very little, there's no ad libbing, and

760
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: there's no just kind of figuring it out as you

761
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: go because it's all me scripted. I said, if I

762
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: had that, I would have been fucked ten minutes in

763
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: because you just had to be in the moment. Like

764
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: my plan was, my loose plan was, I'm talking from

765
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 1: eight thirty to one, right, so I'm going to talk

766
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: from eight thirty to ten ninety minutes straight up while

767
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: they're fresh. Right, So by nine point thirty, they're all

768
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:07,760
Speaker 1: just ready to you know, fucking mess up or whatever

769
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 1: because they're not used to just listening to someone talk.

770
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: But they were great. But everything in the room told me,

771
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: all right, this is good time to have a break.

772
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:17,439
Speaker 1: So we just had a break and then they got

773
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 1: back and they're all good. And then so instead of

774
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: these pre set breaks at these pre ordained times, I

775
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: would talk for forty forty five and go, let's have

776
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 1: five minutes. And that way it kind of kept them in,

777
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: you know, present. At the end of the day, I

778
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: got overwhelmingly good feedback from a bunch of blokes that

779
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: initially were not at all enthusiastic. And it's not I

780
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: don't think I was brilliant, but I just found a

781
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: way to connect with them. Yeah, And I said to

782
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: the bosses, I go, is swearing okay, And they're like,

783
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: I think it's looking compulsory. You better swear right, and

784
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: you better and so yeah, but it's like that. But

785
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: here's the thing with that, right, you can't go learn

786
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 1: that in a course. You know, you can't do a

787
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: three day workshop that you could talk about the idea

788
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: of being adaptable and flexible and in the moment. But

789
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: you just need and I'm not saying I'm the high watermark.

790
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: I'm not, but you just need runs on the board.

791
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 2: You need this experience.

792
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,919
Speaker 1: You just need a lot of experience to go all right,

793
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,720
Speaker 1: well this is And by the way, they were actually

794
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: a good group and I love it. I loved it

795
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: because there was no pretentiousness at all. They didn't feel

796
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: compelled to participate or be politically correct or if they're interested,

797
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: you knew if they weren't, you knew. Yeah they had

798
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: a question that go, yeah, but what about blah blah blah,

799
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: not going that's a good question. You know. It was

800
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: all just organic and raw.

801
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 2: But anyway, great, that's great that they had.

802
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,439
Speaker 3: You as a first experience because I think that you, yeah,

803
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 3: that you would have been the perfect person. I can't

804
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 3: believe that for a first experience it was like three

805
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 3: and a half hours.

806
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,359
Speaker 2: Oh more more like, why were they why were they

807
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: doing that? That's crazy?

808
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well what we did do though, like and to

809
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: their credit, the guys who the owners, they were great.

810
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: I said, at about I don't know, maybe eleven, so

811
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,919
Speaker 1: maybe two two and a half hours in, I went,

812
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: I reckon we should. I said, look, I'm happy to

813
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:31,479
Speaker 1: go to one o'clock. But I said, I think what's

814
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: going to be more impactful and more productive for them

815
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: as if we pull the pin around twelve, Because I

816
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: think their attention threshold and their curiosity and interest threshold,

817
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: you know, we're approaching it. And that's not a judgment

818
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: of them. It's like when you don't like I remember

819
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: when I started my PhD, My attention span was so

820
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 1: short when I was reading journal articles and listening to lectures,

821
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: and like I'm like, oh my, it's like being out

822
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: of shape. It's like you go for your first run.

823
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: Used to run ten k's in forty five. Now you

824
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: run two k's and you're fucked. It's kind of like

825
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: there's a kind of conditioning that comes with you know,

826
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 1: whether or not it's being in an audience, being in lectures,

827
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: you know, reading papers, or trying to focus and study. Anyway,

828
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: I feel like we've digressed. I need you to tell

829
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: people where they can find you and follow you and

830
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: experience the UNUS.

831
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 3: Can I tell your listeners about something exciting in my

832
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 3: business world? Of course, we might have mentioned in a

833
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 3: past episode Contain your Brain, which is an app I

834
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 3: created to help people worry less and worry better, and

835
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 3: we've made it free. So I wanted to let everybody

836
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 3: know that there's a free resource out there if you're

837
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 3: in a or thinker, or you are worried you know

838
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 3: ninety nine percent of the time or even twenty percent

839
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 3: of the time, and you want to learn how to

840
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 3: manage your problems more effectively.

841
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 2: It can be a really helpful place to go. So

842
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: you can just download.

843
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 3: That from the app store, or you can go to

844
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 3: contain your brain dot com and you can click on

845
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 3: the website and go to the app store from there

846
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 3: as well. And the other thing is I would love

847
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 3: I know that your listeners are in a Facebook group

848
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 3: and I've just you said you like my voice. So

849
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 3: I've been recording relaxation and mindfulness exercises specifically for three areas.

850
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,359
Speaker 3: So there's going to be three albums that come out.

851
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 2: One is.

852
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 3: About anger and frustration, one is about sleep, and one

853
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 3: is about anxiety and worry and stress, let's say. And

854
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 3: I'm just in the process of editing it. So if

855
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,280
Speaker 3: people want to be guinea pigs for me and listen

856
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 3: to some of these finished exercises and give me feedback,

857
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 3: just so I know, like im, you know that they're helpful,

858
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 3: they're on the right track. If people have any issues

859
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 3: with frustration, stress, anger or sleep or yeah, anything really

860
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 3: you know, related to those issues, I can just let

861
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,399
Speaker 3: me know. Get in touch with me and I will

862
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 3: send you some of the latest recordings and you can

863
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 3: you can.

864
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 2: Be my pesters.

865
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: That's a great idea. I've got one quick story, but

866
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 1: before that, so get in contact with you how like?

867
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, So the best way is on my website

868
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 3: doctor Lilliannajad dot com. If you go to the contact page,

869
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 3: you can you can get in touch with me that way,

870
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 3: and if you if you're okay with it, I can

871
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 3: post something in your Facebook group as well, so they

872
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 3: can comfort me via Facebook as well.

873
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, do that. That's really good. That's a good idea.

874
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,919
Speaker 1: I did a similar thing. My last book is called

875
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:17,280
Speaker 1: Twenty Questions for Humans, which is clearly just based around

876
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: twenty questions that I've been asked a lot or people

877
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 1: are curious about, you know, like what's the meaning of

878
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: life and all that? You know, that easy stuff, right.

879
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 1: But when I finished the book, like draft one, a

880
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 1: couple of people read it. And then I thought, what

881
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: if I got a bunch of my readers, my listeners,

882
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: followers and readers to read this before we publish it, right,

883
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: not after? And so I just put up a thing

884
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: and said, I need twenty five people to come to

885
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: my office. At this stage, I had an office and

886
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: a lecture theater up in Arabin. This is just just

887
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 1: pre COVID, just sneaking into COVID. And I got twenty

888
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 1: five people who came very generously on a Saturday morning.

889
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 1: I gave everyone a manuscript and a red pen, and

890
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 1: I said, everything that you think is good or shit,

891
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: or you might even find some grammatical errors. Like I

892
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: don't want to give you too many guidelines. I just

893
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: want I want you to write all over it. And

894
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: you might just go, yeah, that's pretty good, or you

895
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: might go it's complete dogshit if it's dogshit, rite why

896
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: you think it's dogshit? If you know? And I had

897
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: twenty five editors, and so I had the book literally

898
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,919
Speaker 1: edited twenty five times in a morning, and it took

899
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: me about a week to go through all the you know,

900
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: just looking at it. But it just helped immeasurably. And

901
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: people love the fact that they were involved in that

902
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: little process. And yeah, so I think your idea is

903
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 1: a good one. So let's get people involved. Awesome love

904
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: having you on the show. I love, I guess more accurately,

905
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 1: I love that you comfortable enough to be you and be,

906
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 1: you know, be vulnerable with us. So thank you very much.

907
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And of course I know you're human

908
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: and of course you know you have feelings. But it's

909
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: good to see people like you who help people for

910
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: a living. It's good for us normal people. Am I

911
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: normal to you know, see your humanity. So and thanks

912
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: so much. We'll see you next time. Doc.

913
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 2: Thanks Craig,