WEBVTT - #2013 Transcranial Electrical Stimulation - David Gillespie 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.440 I get out your bloody champs. It's the project that's 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:05.720 You's Tiffany and Cook over there in her her rabbit 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:08.880 hole chewing on a fucking carrot. I'm not even being funny. 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.240 I'm not even being metaphoric. It's not an analogy. It's literal, 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.840 like having fucking bugs. Bunny on the podcast and when 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:21.160 I got on, she was just crunching and chomping. What 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:23.080 are you? Why are you eating a raw carrot? 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:25.000 Because I didn't want to feel like for the next 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:27.080 half an hour, I deep down I wanted to punch 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:29.760 you and David in the face, so I thought I'd 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:31.280 take the edge off with a carrot. 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:34.239 Why is the lady allowed to say that towards two men? 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:36.400 But if a man said that towards two women, I'd 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:36.960 be in trouble. 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:39.880 It's probably probably running out on it. 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.640 The gispo goialispaw was a joke. We know she, we 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:50.240 know God here, oh god. It was a rhetorical question. 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:50.600 Everyone. 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.840 I didn't really mean it. There's no there's nothing in it. 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.560 Don't send you an email. But Gilespo is going to 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.080 answer it anyway. Fuck, that's the problem you have him on. 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:01.760 You ask any question there's a fucking answer. Come on, 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:02.279 what is it? 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:08.679 Testosterone of course is the answer. Yeah, well, because because 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:13.840 the version of humans that has the testosterone supplement can 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:16.400 be quite dangerous, and so it has to have rules 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:17.120 around it. 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.120 I don't want to point out that there's a female 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.120 on the show that's probably got more testosterone than you, Gilespo. 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:29.919 So a, you know, are you whized honestly? Because yeah, 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.680 she's fit and works out on everything, But that doesn't 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:36.479 mean she's got more testosterone. No, that is well, well 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:38.360 not unless she's taking extra of course. 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:39.640 No, No, I don't think. 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:42.440 I don't think versions there. I don't know. 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.200 I don't think there's anything on board that's untoward. I 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:47.400 don't think. I don't think Wada are going to be 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.240 knocking on her bloody door anytime on a rabbit hole 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:55.080 anytime soon. You should ask Gillespo what is the what 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:59.920 is the underlying mechanism of your your hangariness, tiff, your 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:02.160 pensity to want to punch someone in the face when 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.240 you can't get a carrot or similar? 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.960 Yeah, David, why is hungry such a big emotion for me? 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:13.120 Huh, Well, it's probably to do with the whole reward 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.400 cycle thing, So it's you know, the purpose of our 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.160 dopamine system is to make as seek useful rewards, and 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.800 one of the most basic useful rewards is food. So 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:27.880 if you're genuinely hungry, then your dopamine system is firing 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:33.000 up to force you to get food and respond to 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:37.880 that hunger. So you are on edge. Dopamine Remember, its 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.800 function is to put you on edge, make you more focused, 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.240 make your muscles work better, make you more determined to 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:49.680 achieve the rewards. So that's probably what you're experiencing. 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:53.040 Wow, I am carrot in hand. 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.360 Well, a carrot in hand? Did the carrot help? I 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.560 feel like a carrot's not particularly helpful? 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.200 Look, and it did. But it's better than an apple. 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:03.040 If I eat an apple when I'm hungry, it makes 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:04.960 me makes you hungrier. Great, Yeah. 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:06.480 You know? 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:10.680 Or do you want to know why? Yes, So. 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:14.040 Get comfortable everyone, No. 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.880 This one's a quick one. So fructose, which is the 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:22.640 primary sugar in an apple, is it causes It fires 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:26.400 the hunger system, so it fires the appetite. Its function 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.960 is to make us want to eat more. So, from 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.400 an evolutionary perspective, if we've got something sweet, it was 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.359 usually the thing we shoved in our mouth first because 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:38.160 it's sweet. We like sweet things, and it actually makes 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:42.000 us hungrier and gets our appetite system going and ready 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:45.560 for real food. So that's why. And a lot of 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:47.119 people will tell you that, a lot of people will say, 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:48.680 if I'm hungry, the worst thing in the world I 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:50.840 can eat is an apple, because as soon as I do, 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:55.600 I'm even hungrier. Now, mind you, karras probably not a 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:57.960 great solution because it's got some fructose in it too, 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:01.640 but nowhere near the quantities of of something like an apple. 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.280 I normally eat my apples and pears with peanut butter, 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.560 with nut butter on them, and Harps teased me the 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:09.840 other day when I said that they are delicious. 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.520 My sister in law did that too, and I thought 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.240 she was totally insane because she take she'd slice a 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:18.839 bit of apple off and then put peanut butter on it, 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.320 and I thought she was insane till I tried it. 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:24.920 It was really nice, so good. 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.440 Well, I think what that does too, it because you're 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:29.520 putting the fat with the sugar at low is what 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:31.520 they call I don't know if they still use that term, 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:36.600 but glycemic load. So it doesn't create such an insulin response, 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.280 so you probably do you get hanged? Are you if 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.279 you have that and some nut butter, are you satisfied 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:44.800 after that or do you still want more? 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:45.040 Yeah? 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:46.880 No, that's why I have it. 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.080 And the fat. The fat is what what he needs. 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.000 Gillespo, you were telling us, I don't know if you 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:54.880 want to share this, but fuck it, I'm opening the door. 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.200 You were telling us before we press the record button 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:01.480 that it's very, very differ dificult for people who are 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:05.240 vegans and eat only kind of raw vegan diets, which 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:07.440 there are not a lot, but there are people that 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.080 it's almost impossible enough for them, impossible for them to 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.359 get enough calories eating that way to survive. 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:16.800 Based. Yeah, I'm a little reluctant to talk about this 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.000 too much because it's a vague memory of a study 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:20.840 I read as I was reading about something else, but 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:22.919 I'm pretty sure that's what it said, which is a 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:28.280 raw food diet cannot supply sufficient calories to keep an 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:34.760 adult human alive. So and the only sort of asterisk 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.480 on that is that unless you include a lot of 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.400 raw foods that have a lot of fat in them, 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.280 like avocados and in that particular study, I think they 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:47.560 observed that a large percentage, very large percentage of the 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:51.440 diet of those people who were doing this successfully or 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:57.080 at least managing to stay alive. I guess we're people 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.640 who were doing it with a large amount of avocado 0:05:59.680 --> 0:05:59.960 in it. 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.560 I've got a question, when did David, When did humans 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.599 start cooking food cooking meat? 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:10.920 At the transition? Well, you know, I wasn't there, but 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.240 I was, Oh, Craig was, Yeah, I thought it might 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:18.480 have been, but I didn't want to say anything. At 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:23.159 the transition from the tree hanging version of us, well, 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:25.000 you know, it's wrong to say version of us because 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.760 we're a separate species. But in the evolutionary transition from 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:32.440 generally being in jungles and swinging around in trees into 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.599 the grassland version, where there were no trees and things 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:39.200 to do, where we had to do some outside the 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:45.159 body processing of our food supply. And so what we 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.320 found is that we could get by with a lot 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.720 less intestine if we process the food before we put 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.120 it in our mouths, which is what cooking is. So 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:57.080 that's breaking the food down using fire before we put 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:58.880 it into our body. So we need a lot less 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.039 intestine to do that, and what we save in intestine 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.400 we make up for in brains. So there's a strong 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:12.200 theory that the reason we were able to grow such 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:16.240 large brains and be what we are is because of fire. 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.480 Because we discovered that the fire was bloody handy in 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:23.760 predigesting food, and if we predigested it, we didn't need 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.000 anywhere near as much a testine and we could invest 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.280 those resources in growing brain instead of gut. 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.560 So the answer to your question tip is nine thirty eight. 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:37.920 The question when I don't know the exact time, but 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:43.720 sometime between the transition between chimpionzee like versions of us 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:45.640 and US versions of us. 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.520 Did you see that they just recently David pushed the 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:53.960 modern Homo sapient timeline back by two hundred thousand years 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:58.040 from three hundred thousand to half a million, Like, I 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:02.200 didn't see that, but yeah, what they call modern Homo sapiens. 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.320 Yeah, that was the big question is what we did 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:08.960 to all our cousins, because we weren't the only species 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:13.080 of human, not by a long shot. So Neanderthals were 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:16.440 a separate species, for example, but there were others. And 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:22.000 how you think it's robusters, that's me yep. So the 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:23.640 big question is what do we do to them? Because 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.880 we probably did something to them, so I. 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.160 Think we all know what we did to them. That's okay, 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.640 it's and we haven't stopped doing that to each other. 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.880 By the way, we're. 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:40.160 The only species of humans left, so there could have 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:44.520 been other species. Well, there were other species and they 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:48.679 didn't survive and we did, which makes a casta finger 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:49.960 suspicion in our direction. 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:54.280 I suspect that's an interesting question, though, Tiff. It is 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.000 it is? And how long I should know this? But 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.400 you'll definitely know because you're the smartest bloke on the show. 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:03.839 Agriculture What is that like ten thousand years old? About 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.400 ten thousand? Yeah, it's what allowed. 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.760 Us to live in groups larger than about one hundred 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:13.880 and fifty because suddenly we could not have to we 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:15.880 didn't have to move to the food. We kept the 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.200 food and we created it, and then we could have 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:21.800 large groups of humans around where we created the food. 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.360 So we noticed that the grasses and so on could 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.040 be you know, you can grow fields of the things 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.280 and take the grains from them and then feed large 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:34.679 amounts of people, so which necessitated us evolving the capacity 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:37.200 to work well with other strangers, which is we've talked 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:40.040 about many, many times on the show, which is how 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.560 we evolved empathy, and why we evolved empathy is we 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:45.240 have to be able to trust other humans. 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.960 Le'd be fascinating, all right, now, that's not what we're 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:55.600 talking about today. But beautiful, beautiful intro. We are going 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.520 to chat today. I don't even know why, but about 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:04.400 transcranial electrical stimulation. I have a really fundamental and I 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.560 say basic fundamental understanding of what that is and why 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.760 it's used. But why are we chatting about that? Why 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:11.880 are your interest in that? 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.960 Because the t GA in Australia has recently approved that. 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.320 I think I didn't get a chance to look up 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.000 this article before I came on here, but I think 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:23.720 this is the case in the last few weeks or 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:32.360 so for treatment of depression. And this is the so 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.920 just for people who are not quite sure what this is. 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.480 This is they look like a skull cap sort of 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:43.320 a thing. Put it on your head for about twenty 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:48.680 minutes a day, passes an electric current into various bits 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:50.360 of your brain. And this is not the kind you 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.760 know In one flock flew over the cokoo's nest where 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.200 you're getting a little bitt of me or anything. This 0:10:55.280 --> 0:11:01.120 is very very mild electrical current, and if it's done right, 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:08.320 it has been shown to produce improvement in symptoms associated 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:12.720 with depression. And this is in double blind trials where 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:14.720 this is the kind of thing you can try pretty effectively, 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.440 which is that you can give someone a cap to 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.360 put on their head that makes it feel like they're 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:24.600 getting electrical stimulation, but they're not, and so they don't 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:26.040 know if they're getting it. You don't know if they're 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.040 getting it, the researchers don't know. It's all double blinded 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.360 and you can measure the utcomes and so there have 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:37.160 been studies done in this, quite recent studies in it 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:42.240 that have shown that it can improve symptoms associated with anxiety, depression, 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.480 and even addiction. So there's a recent study done on 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.960 marijuana addiction. Long term marijuana addiction, which is off marijuana 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:55.679 is often prescribed for pain relief, increasingly so, and the 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.120 hidden story there is that there's often a significant risk 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:06.600 of addiction and getting people off the marijuana addiction once 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.880 it started it can be very very difficult, and there 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:15.000 have been studies using this kind of technology to essentially 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:21.880 break the addiction, reduce the cravings, improve sleep, outcomes, improve anxiety, 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:26.040 are comes, improved withdrawal symptoms, all of those kinds of things. 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:34.120 So this is an interesting technology. The more interesting bit 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:38.920 from my perspective is why why does this work? What 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.920 is it doing in the brain that is causing this 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:49.400 to have this effect? Because it's an interesting effect. If 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.680 you look at the studies on this and say, Okay, 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.080 what are they saying are the outcomes from this? It 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.440 is very very similar to the kinds of outcomes that 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.000 we've talked about before, where I said what you need 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.280 to do is find something to increase your focus. So 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.079 if you are addicted to something, if you're suffering anxiety, 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.880 for suffering depression, you need to find something to increase 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.199 your focus. And so remember we've talked about you could do, 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.200 you know, take up playing a musical instrument, you know, 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.760 as something that gets you into that flow state where 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:23.880 you are increasing focus. And if I think mentioned you know, 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.360 one of the big ones that's historically been there is 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.240 meditation and those sorts of things which achieve the same 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.240 sort of thing which is putting you into a state 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:36.080 where you are entirely focused on just one thing. So 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.240 the outcomes from studies that show those sorts of things 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:41.800 are very, very similar to the artcomes that we're seeing 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.840 for these electrical stimulation studies. And so the big and 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.600 obvious question is how is it doing it? And the 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.360 answer is, according to a couple of recent papers on this, 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:57.360 is it's showing it's been shown to stimulate dopamine. So 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:03.240 this electrical stimulation is causing dopamine stimulation in the right 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.280 parts of the brain where it's applied in the right way, 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:11.320 it's causing dopamine stimulation. So it's an artificial way of 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.800 inducing focus. So yeah, we could do a little experiment 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:19.720 on Tiff, because you know she's when she's craving food 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:23.840 and it's making her angry. You could stimulate dopamine by 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.160 putting one of these things on her head and see 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.280 if the cravings go away, and according to the studies, 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:33.880 there's a good chance they would. So that's the kind 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.280 of thing we're talking about, which is an artificial stimulation 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.840 of dopamine, which is of course the way everyone is 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:45.680 treating ADHD now. So ADHD is artificial, is treated with 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.600 artificial stimulation dopamine using drugs, So we know how to 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:53.600 stimulate dopamine very very easily. You give people a stimulant drug, 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.600 you know, like ADHD medication or cocaine or any other stimulant. 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.440 Not sorry, not advocating giving cocaine into ADHD kids, but 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.760 I'm just saying that the mechanism is the same. And 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.360 so the interesting thing here is you're achieving that kind 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:16.720 of result, but not with a drug and also not 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.720 with any herbal gerbil you know, prayer mat or anything. 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:26.160 You're doing it with a piece of technology. Now the 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:32.320 interesting question there is is that better Is that a 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.800 better way to do this than using a drug or 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.200 using something else that stimulates over I mean, so people 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:42.120 have been able to self treat and self medicate all 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:45.440 of these symptoms themselves by giving themselves a stimulant like smoking. 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.320 So people you know they're suffering stress or suffering cravings, 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.960 that they know that smoking is a solution, or drinking 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.360 is a solution, or getting on insta is a solution, 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.600 or playing a video game is a solution, because all 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:03.800 of those things stimulate dopamine. Eating a carrot or eating 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:08.320 a carrot, desiring the carrot is what stimulates the dopamine. 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:12.200 The eating of it is the satisfaction of it. So 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:17.160 the interesting question there is, Okay, so we know we 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.040 can this is no miracle. We can stimulate dopamine any 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.040 number of ways. Why should this thing be regarded as 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:27.680 anything more special? Well, because the study seemed to be 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.840 suggesting this is all like the for what of a 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:35.880 better term natural stimulation of dopamine that you get from 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.320 finding something puts you in a state of flow. So 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.200 it's not high enough and harsh enough to become addictive 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.280 in its own right. You're not going to become addicted 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.680 to putting the cap on twenty minutes to day. You are, 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:53.720 in essence using it as methadine, a methadone for other addictions, 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.760 which is is giving you enough of a dopamine hit 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:01.080 to satisfy the cravings and ap to you going after 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:06.760 the other addiction and start to address the symptoms like 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:10.359 depression and sleep interruption and anxiety and so on. But 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.800 it isn't strong enough that they're finding people are becoming 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.320 addicted to this simulation. 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.280 Now you're making me want to go and buy one. 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:21.880 I'm just having a little bit of a look here 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.960 on I wonder if you can find me one of 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:29.640 those on craigslist. Iff uses and research. This is AI, everybody, 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:33.160 so take it with a grain of salt. Cognitive enhancement, memory, learning, 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:39.480 problem solving, improved mental health being studied for depression, addiction, anxiety. 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:43.439 As David was talking about rehab, stroke, recovery, motor learning, 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.160 pain and fatigue, some trials in chronic pain and fatigue syndromes. 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:51.440 That's interesting and in terms of safety, generally considered safe 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:56.320 when done properly. Mild tingling, itching or readiness, blah blah blah, rare, 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:01.120 rare symptoms, headache, dizziness, long term effects still being studied. 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.040 But it seems to I mean, we're not again everyone, 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.040 as David always says, we're not advising or recommending, We're 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:11.560 just having a chat about it. But yeah, I wonder like, 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.720 is it something that needs to be your understanding anyway, David, 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.280 that it needs to be used consistently or use it 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.000 for a period of time and then put it back 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:19.600 in the cupboard. 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:23.120 Well, I guess it depends how your mileage may vary. 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:25.240 By the way, while you were blathering on there, I 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:27.320 did check the TGA. 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:32.959 Hey, why when I'm sharing, am I blathering. 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.040 On because you were just reading an AI answer. 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:37.080 I was sharing some. 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.800 Anyway while you were reading that AI answer. 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:46.399 Back in therapy. You know what I'm going to need. 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.760 I'm going to need some transcrani electrical stimulation from a 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.520 depression from hanging out with that bastard every two weeks. 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:59.560 Possibly, yeah, anyway, Yes, the TGA did to prove it 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:05.040 last two weeks ago. So Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration has 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.800 approved for conditions like depression and chronic pain. 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:14.359 And so would who would prescribe that? Like, not like 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:20.439 a psychiatrist, a GP, who like, if somebody's got issues, 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.520 who's going to make that decision or prescribe or recommend that? 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.159 Well, I suspect the first off, as with anything medical, 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:29.840 would would be your GP. So they're your primary health 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.919 care provider, so you know, and i'd recommend anyone listening 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:35.680 to this who's thinking, Oh, I wouldn't mind giving that 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.400 a try first first porter call, talk to your GP 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.720 about it, you know, don't I don't know how easy 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.679 these things are to buy, you know, or even how 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:50.159 you get access to them, but they are approved for 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:54.400 certain uses in Australia and that's interesting because it's new, 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:58.320 and more interesting to me because it's a completely different 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.160 way of approaching this. The only other time I've seen 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:06.399 technology used as a cure for depression or anxiety is 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:08.920 a group in the United States that came out last 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:12.000 year and they got the equivalent of TGA approved approval 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.199 in the United States on what it was, essentially a 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:19.960 video game. And I think we may have even talked 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:20.400 about it. 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.679 I vaguely remember a brief chat about that. 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:29.000 Yeah, yeah, and and my point at the time was, well, 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:33.400 of course video games stimulate overman, so you would imagine 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.600 that that would work. This first time anyone had ever 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.760 gotten therapeutic approval for the use of a video game. 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:44.080 The problem with a video game as a solution here 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.840 is that it's like saying, my solution to my cocaine 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:53.840 addiction is more cocaine. And the problem, by the way, 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.240 it's an ad running around at the moment where they 0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:01.679 say guys suffering from nicotine cravings and they call it 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:03.600 that on the ad. I can't remember this, so I 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:09.280 think the ads for nicorettes suffering for nicotine craving and 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:12.280 they say the solution is nicotine. 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.520 I know what that's dawn on me. I'm like, he's 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.399 got yeah, so let's give him nicotine to stop the 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:20.240 nicotine crave. 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.480 That's right. Do want to add for someone who's adicted to 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:24.800 cocaine and say, well, the solution is you need some 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.840 more cocaine. So guess what, we've got some for you. 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:31.560 We've got cocaine chewing gum or cocaine patches for you. 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:36.200 Yeah. So, And that's the problem is, that's why these 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:38.359 things are not solutions. It's why drinking is not a 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:41.680 solution to alcoholism, even though it does make you feel 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:46.280 better immediately and does remove most of the symptoms because 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:51.320 you are stimulating dopamine, which will help the problem is 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:53.919 that usually you're stimulating it too high. You raise the 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.640 delta foss B threshold. Remember that's the resistance they've offered dopamine, 0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.560 and every time you raise it, you make it harder 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:03.080 to break it next time. The interesting thing about this 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:05.679 is this seems like it might be soft enough and 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:08.960 slow enough that it isn't quite reaching enough of a 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:13.440 threshold to do that, and we used over time may 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:16.199 well reduce those symptoms and bring you back down to 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:18.320 a more normal level, which is after all what I 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:22.240 advocate people do without drugs anyway, which is find that 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:25.199 flow state, find that focus state that allows you to 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:27.280 do it. And I guess this is the ozempic of 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:29.880 mental health here in that if you can't be bothered 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:34.000 doing that, then maybe there's a shortcut here if you. 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.000 Had your hand up three minutes ago and David just plow. 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:40.239 Just ignore it. You know why, Tiff, because I have 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:42.719 on my screen Craig has made it. I'm sure this 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.800 is something he's done. It's made, He's made him the 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:50.040 feature thing in the So you're just a little icon 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:51.720 up in the corner for me, How on. 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:55.480 Earth am I blamed for what's going on on your 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:56.479 computering points? 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:56.720 Land? 0:22:57.520 --> 0:22:58.840 If what's your question for. 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:05.480 I would interested how what's his name? How closely related 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:11.080 or not? This process is to electric electroconvulsive therapy. 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:15.080 Not really, not really, not not really. So this is 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:19.879