WEBVTT - The best games of 2025

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM. It's

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<v Speaker 1>been a huge year for video games. Small developers are

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<v Speaker 1>leading a renaissance of original ideas breaking through.

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<v Speaker 2>Into the mainstream.

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<v Speaker 1>They're going up against blockbuster franchises like Call of Duty

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<v Speaker 1>and Winning. The seven AM team debated adding games to

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<v Speaker 1>our best of features this year, but the numbers don't lie.

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<v Speaker 1>More than four out of five Australians game and to

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<v Speaker 1>industries at least three times the size of the film industry.

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<v Speaker 2>Games can be so many things, high art, pop art,

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<v Speaker 2>and pure dopamine, sometimes all at once.

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<v Speaker 3>Today, video games.

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<v Speaker 1>Critic and tech journalist at the ABC Rad Yo on

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<v Speaker 1>her top five favorite games of the year. It's Saturday,

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<v Speaker 1>December twenty seven, so Rad welcome to seven AM. It's

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<v Speaker 1>great to have you on the show. Thank you so

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<v Speaker 1>much for having me. So we are here to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about the best games of the year, a topic in

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<v Speaker 1>which you I think are an expert.

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<v Speaker 2>I am not, and I'm looking forward to learning.

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<v Speaker 4>Look, it has been an excellent games years, so if

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<v Speaker 4>there was ever a time to tickle your interest get

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<v Speaker 4>you in on.

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<v Speaker 3>It, it would be this year. Perhaps fantastic.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, tell me what your first pick is.

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<v Speaker 4>It would have to be Hollow Night's Silk Song. This

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<v Speaker 4>is an absolutely incredible game.

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<v Speaker 1>And I read reports that Silk Song when it was released,

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<v Speaker 1>everything crashed because so many people were trying to buy it.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is an independent Australian made game, So how

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<v Speaker 1>did it become that popular?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 4>So Silksong is a sequel to Hollow Night, which came

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<v Speaker 4>out in twenty seventeen, and that game sold more than

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<v Speaker 4>fifteen million copies worldwide, so people have been chomping at

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<v Speaker 4>the bit myself included for Silk Song to finally come out.

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<v Speaker 4>It's one of those that as soon as you pick

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<v Speaker 4>it up, you can feel how lovingly.

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<v Speaker 3>Crafted it is, right, like you feel.

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<v Speaker 4>Pulled into this mysterious, chaotic, interesting dark world.

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<v Speaker 2>And can you describe the actual world of the game

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<v Speaker 2>for me a little like where are you when you

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<v Speaker 2>enter into Silk Song?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so you are in like this bug world.

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<v Speaker 4>You're kind of underground, and you play as a little

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<v Speaker 4>creature called Hornet, and there's all these different sort of

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<v Speaker 4>interesting bug creatures around, many of whom seem to have

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<v Speaker 4>like something has gone wrong in the world, right, like

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<v Speaker 4>they they're not quite what they should be but you

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<v Speaker 4>start to really feel for like, I don't know, fleas

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<v Speaker 4>and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't think that would ever happen.

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<v Speaker 3>I love it.

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<v Speaker 1>I also love that this game is made by a

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<v Speaker 1>really small team of people in South Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>Team Terry, I believe they're called. Tell me a bit

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<v Speaker 2>about them.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, when we say small team, we mean some more

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<v Speaker 4>like very very small team. Cherry is in fact three people,

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<v Speaker 4>Aary Gibson, William Pelham and Jack Vine. And as you

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<v Speaker 4>can imagine with such a small team, they are very

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<v Speaker 4>multi talented.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 4>It just takes such a staggering degree of passion, skill

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<v Speaker 4>obsession to be able to create something as refined as this.

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<v Speaker 1>And can we talk a little bit about the score,

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<v Speaker 1>because I've been told that there were members of the

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<v Speaker 1>Adelaide Symphony Orchestra involved.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, the score is absolutely gorgeous.

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<v Speaker 4>It was done by Christopher Larkin, who is an Adelaide composer.

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<v Speaker 4>Absolutely incredible. He did the first game as well, And

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<v Speaker 4>it's quite rare to get a fully orchestrated game score,

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<v Speaker 4>especially in an indie game, which is fair enough that's

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<v Speaker 4>an expensive undertaking. But there really is a magic to

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<v Speaker 4>having a human player a human musician bringing their own

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<v Speaker 4>kind of soul to a piece. The soundtrack creates this

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<v Speaker 4>sense of expansiveness, the sense of wonder, and picks up

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<v Speaker 4>and brings such tension and energy when you do go

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<v Speaker 4>into these boss fights.

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<v Speaker 1>And a lot of the kind of talk around this

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<v Speaker 1>game has been around how difficult it is, So I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>how challenging did you find it?

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<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna say very challenging. I haven't finished it, but

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<v Speaker 4>that's sort of the beauty of it. I don't think

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<v Speaker 4>that the enjoyment of these games is about finishing them.

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<v Speaker 4>It's about spending time in them. And this is gonna

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<v Speaker 4>sound a bit woo maybe, but I'm a bit woo.

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<v Speaker 3>So what are you gonna do? It's about what the

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<v Speaker 3>game teaches you about yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, what is it taught you? It teaches you.

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<v Speaker 4>Resilience in what I think is a really visceral way.

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<v Speaker 4>Doing some thing that requires so much persistence and the

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<v Speaker 4>decision to kind of step back in and try again

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<v Speaker 4>allows us to experience failure and persistence and success in

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<v Speaker 4>a way that is hard to replicate elsewhere in life.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, let's move on, and what is your next pick?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna say Hades two.

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<v Speaker 4>Few tales are told of Hades, whose reign has grim

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<v Speaker 4>Lord of the Dead, came to a sudden end when

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<v Speaker 4>all at once his past caught up with him. So

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<v Speaker 4>Hades two is a much bigger game than the original.

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<v Speaker 4>Hades one had just like one gauntlet that you could

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<v Speaker 4>run over and over again, whereas Hades two gives you

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<v Speaker 4>a little bit more choice. So you can either go

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<v Speaker 4>down into the underworld and fight the big bad Chronos,

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<v Speaker 4>or you can go up to the surface and defend

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<v Speaker 4>Mount Olympus.

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<v Speaker 3>Death to Chronos, vengeance for my family.

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<v Speaker 4>But most importantly, you can bring a p along in

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<v Speaker 4>this game.

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<v Speaker 3>Who did you bring? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the cat gives you extra life and yeah, I

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<v Speaker 4>think that's cute.

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<v Speaker 1>And tell me a bit more about the storytelling, because

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<v Speaker 1>my understanding is that in order to learn how to

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<v Speaker 1>play the game, you have to kind of die over

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<v Speaker 1>and over and over again, which to me maybe sounds

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<v Speaker 1>a little frustrating, But what's it like to actually supply it.

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<v Speaker 4>You're so right, It is something that you need to

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<v Speaker 4>kind of balance really carefully as a developer if you're.

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<v Speaker 3>Going to make a game like this, because.

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<v Speaker 4>It can be really frustrating, especially in Hades, where if

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<v Speaker 4>you die you go right back to the actual full beginning.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 4>So, building failure in as a part of the game,

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<v Speaker 4>you need to make it not feel like failure because

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<v Speaker 4>there's always something new to unlock, and there's always different

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<v Speaker 4>abilities to try and things that you can test out

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<v Speaker 4>to see like if the synergy is better and if

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<v Speaker 4>it works better. And in that way, I think they

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<v Speaker 4>strike the balance quite well.

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<v Speaker 1>And so tell me a bit about the visual style

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<v Speaker 1>of the game. What does it look like to be

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<v Speaker 1>in this world?

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<v Speaker 4>It is stunning, I mean, super giant. The developers are

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<v Speaker 4>known for the art in their games, and I think

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<v Speaker 4>that is in huge part due to their incredible art director.

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<v Speaker 3>Her name's gen Z.

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<v Speaker 4>The original Hades was already praised for its art style.

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<v Speaker 4>It's got this like inked in cell shaded look to

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<v Speaker 4>it that feels quite.

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<v Speaker 3>Bold and hand drawn.

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<v Speaker 4>And I think that that's something I really like in

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<v Speaker 4>games as well, that we're seeing more of this sense

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<v Speaker 4>of a human touch to it, it not being you know,

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<v Speaker 4>completely computery or digital. And because Hades is also based

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<v Speaker 4>on Greek mythology, there's like such a rich culture and

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<v Speaker 4>history for them to draw from, and when Hades two

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<v Speaker 4>was revealed, the Internet had a field day because everyone

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<v Speaker 4>was like, man, these characters are also hot.

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<v Speaker 3>That's like what it's known for.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's an ongoing joke that Hades makes people realize

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<v Speaker 4>they're bisexual.

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<v Speaker 3>Coming up monsters on a train.

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<v Speaker 2>So right, we're talking about your favorite games of twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five. What is next on the list?

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<v Speaker 4>Ah, it's gotta be Monster Trained to another sequel.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>Look, sometimes I have mixed feelings about sequels. I think

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<v Speaker 4>generally I do prefer like fresh ideas rather than people

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<v Speaker 4>making the same games over and over again.

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<v Speaker 3>But at the.

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<v Speaker 4>Same time, it's hard to turn down a well made

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<v Speaker 4>sequel of an excellent game, and it's simply not my

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<v Speaker 4>fault if they made these sequels and did a.

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<v Speaker 3>Really good job of it.

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<v Speaker 2>So where does this one take over from the original?

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<v Speaker 4>The original is basically you're on a train full of monsters,

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<v Speaker 4>a monster train if you will, head into the frozen

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<v Speaker 4>heart of Hell to reignite its flame. But the angels

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<v Speaker 4>of Heaven are trying to stop you, and that's why

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<v Speaker 4>you're fighting.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not really a story, but.

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<v Speaker 4>The second game has tried to introduce more story by

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<v Speaker 4>like having little cutscenes.

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<v Speaker 3>Where characters talk to each other.

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<v Speaker 4>But the real magic of Monster Train two is the

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<v Speaker 4>fact that they've gone in and just expanded what is possible.

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<v Speaker 4>They've introduced all of these new mechanics, new clans, and

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<v Speaker 4>it feels like somehow there is always more and I

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<v Speaker 4>love it so much, And the soundtrack is absolutely ripper,

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<v Speaker 4>especially if you're into metal.

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<v Speaker 1>And my understanding is that this is a deck builder,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think I need you to explain to me what.

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<v Speaker 3>That meant happen.

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<v Speaker 4>So some people like think of deck builders as being

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<v Speaker 4>card games, which I guess they technically are, but I

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<v Speaker 4>promise if you look at it, it doesn't feel like

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<v Speaker 4>you're playing cards like in real life. Think of the

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<v Speaker 4>card as basically like the button that you press in

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<v Speaker 4>order to deploy something. And in doing that, you kind

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<v Speaker 4>of also have this like meta game of which cards

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<v Speaker 4>do you pick and what do you already have and

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<v Speaker 4>what do you add to kind of have them all

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<v Speaker 4>work together.

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<v Speaker 1>And it sounds like this is another game that would

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<v Speaker 1>benefit from a lot of different times playing through, which

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<v Speaker 1>is similar to the other two that we've already spoken about.

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<v Speaker 4>Look, what can I say I know what I like,

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<v Speaker 4>all right, I'm a simple girl. I like the comfort

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<v Speaker 4>in exploring something new within something that's familiar. But I think,

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<v Speaker 4>I think that it really allows you to settle into

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<v Speaker 4>comfort while also like having the excitement and novelty of newness.

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<v Speaker 4>It gives the opportunity to learn and practice and get better,

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<v Speaker 4>which is super satisfying, but it's not, you know, using

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<v Speaker 4>that cognitive load of having to process something entirely new

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<v Speaker 4>all the time. Plus, if you're buying a game that

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<v Speaker 4>you can just keep playing, that's great value. That's being

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<v Speaker 4>smart with your money. Cosey Lives, Babe, You've got to

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<v Speaker 4>be thinking about this kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, what do you have next?

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<v Speaker 4>Next up is Claire Obscure Expedition thirty three. Now, this

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<v Speaker 4>is an incredible game with an incredible story of not

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<v Speaker 4>just like its story within the game, but how it

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<v Speaker 4>came to be all. It's the debut release from French

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<v Speaker 4>developer Sandfall Interactive, and they made this incredibly detailed, very

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<v Speaker 4>expansive game that is of a caliber and polish that

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<v Speaker 4>you would expect to see from a team of like

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<v Speaker 4>upwards of two thousand people with a core team of

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<v Speaker 4>thirty people.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow, it should not exist. It's wild that it does.

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<v Speaker 4>But I absolutely am so glad that they are basically

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<v Speaker 4>standing up and showing the industry and the world what

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<v Speaker 4>can happen when you believe in people who believe in themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, if you're going to give someone flowers, you should

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<v Speaker 1>probably do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Before they wither and die.

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<v Speaker 3>What the flower or so far.

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<v Speaker 1>Dark Sophie would approve. Yeah, it sounds like there is

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of a theme of that here, of these

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<v Speaker 1>kind of smaller developers making these pretty incredible games, and

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<v Speaker 1>they're competing against these, you know, huge prolific studios.

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<v Speaker 2>That have been around for a long time. So is

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<v Speaker 2>that a sign I suppose to you that the industry

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<v Speaker 2>is changing.

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<v Speaker 4>I think that the game development industry is in a very,

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<v Speaker 4>very tough spot where games have sort of been pushed

0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.560
<v Speaker 4>too far into being a commodity and have lost kind

0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.240
<v Speaker 4>of their grounding in being art because at their core

0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:53.000
<v Speaker 4>games are art. Obviously, you are also battling with the

0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.000
<v Speaker 4>reality of commercial viability.

0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.160
<v Speaker 3>But Claire Obscure.

0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.839
<v Speaker 4>Has come in so strong and said, when we go

0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.959
<v Speaker 4>back to the heart of it all, which is making

0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.720
<v Speaker 4>something good that we believe in, that's actually the magic source.

0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:10.880
<v Speaker 4>It's not about trying to make something that optimizes getting

0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:11.920
<v Speaker 4>a dollar out of a player.

0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:13.880
<v Speaker 2>And what is it actually about, Claire Obscure.

0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:20.120
<v Speaker 4>The basic premise is there is a giant, unknown spirit

0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:24.040
<v Speaker 4>creature thing that's like kind of far off on an

0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.240
<v Speaker 4>island in the water that you can see, and each

0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.719
<v Speaker 4>year it disappears everyone who's over a certain age, and

0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:35.120
<v Speaker 4>each year that age gets lower, so they keep sending

0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:39.160
<v Speaker 4>expeditions out to try and like defeat it. And this

0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.480
<v Speaker 4>is Expedition thirty three. So it's just ticked over that

0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.800
<v Speaker 4>everyone over thirty three gets disappeared and they're like trying

0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:47.400
<v Speaker 4>to figure it out.

0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:48.320
<v Speaker 2>That's cool.

0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 3>It is cool.

0:13:52.559 --> 0:14:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Coming up a pure hint of dopamine. And so what

0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:03.960
<v Speaker 2>is your final pick of the uh?

0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.560
<v Speaker 4>My final pick is something that is kind of like

0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:08.040
<v Speaker 4>pure cotton candy.

0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:09.680
<v Speaker 3>It's called Ballpit.

0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.960
<v Speaker 4>It's written like ball x pit.

0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:19.200
<v Speaker 2>Tell me about it? What's the wat to play?

0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.440
<v Speaker 3>To me? Bullpit is like a games game.

0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:27.120
<v Speaker 4>It is basically just if you distilled everything fun and

0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:29.000
<v Speaker 4>silly about a game and put it in a ball

0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:30.520
<v Speaker 4>in front of you, like mac and.

0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:32.280
<v Speaker 3>Cheese or like roast potatoes.

0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.880
<v Speaker 4>Right, it's maybe a little bit unrefined, but not in

0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:35.480
<v Speaker 4>a bad way.

0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.360
<v Speaker 5>You see, while any two balls can be fused together

0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.560
<v Speaker 5>for an additive combination of their powers and effects, certain

0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:45.120
<v Speaker 5>pairs can be evolved together, becoming a completely new ball

0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.200
<v Speaker 5>with its own unique powers and effects.

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.520
<v Speaker 4>And I think that it's funny that I've just described

0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.320
<v Speaker 4>games as art and gone on like this this brant

0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.560
<v Speaker 4>about how like they should be valued as a cultural product.

0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:56.760
<v Speaker 3>And now I'm gonna hard.

0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:00.000
<v Speaker 4>Pivot and talk about just like a pure dopamine delivery.

0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:03.000
<v Speaker 6>System, and this new ball can also be fused to

0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.560
<v Speaker 6>another ball, or possibly evolved again if you a newer

0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.040
<v Speaker 6>new ball with its own newer new powers and effect

0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:09.800
<v Speaker 6>and applications.

0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so we've got five contenders for a game of

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.080
<v Speaker 1>the year here, Which game are you going to be

0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:16.760
<v Speaker 1>spending the most time with over the holidays?

0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.120
<v Speaker 4>I think over just the holidays, it's probably gonna be

0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.560
<v Speaker 4>clear obscure, because it's the kind of thing that like,

0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.840
<v Speaker 4>I've sort of been saving for a big break where

0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:27.920
<v Speaker 4>I can just lock in and play a huge block

0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.480
<v Speaker 4>of it. But if we're talking over like the next year,

0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.960
<v Speaker 4>two years, three years, one hundred percent, I promise you

0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:36.080
<v Speaker 4>it will be monster trained too.

0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:37.640
<v Speaker 3>You're hooked. I am hooked.

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.720
<v Speaker 4>I'm absolutely hooked. I think now it's all I can

0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:41.120
<v Speaker 4>think about.

0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, thank you so much for coming on the show

0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.320
<v Speaker 1>and for talking to me about all of this.

0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:47.680
<v Speaker 2>It's been a great time.

0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.200
<v Speaker 4>Thank you, and I look forward to hearing from you

0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.440
<v Speaker 4>after you get out of your own monster train to hole.

0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm scared I'll lose much of my life.

0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:57.160
<v Speaker 3>I can tell