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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Mondays with Myself

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Speaker 1: and Culture.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, So we're on our third episode about mind rules,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to talk today about reappraisal, and we'll

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Speaker 2: go into that in a minute, but just to start off,

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Speaker 2: it's really easy for us to get stuck in our

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Speaker 2: own narrative, Like I.

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Speaker 3: Know the times if.

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Speaker 2: I look back, where I was just stuck in my

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Speaker 2: own head and in my own story, especially when things

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Speaker 2: go wrong. And I was thinking about this term that

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Speaker 2: we often would say to ourselves, like life's unfair or

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Speaker 2: that's unfair. And if it's like we think that life

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Speaker 2: o's or something okay, if you really think about it, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's just unfair or life's unfair. If you look think

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Speaker 2: about the definition of what's unfair, it's like this shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be happening to me.

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Speaker 3: But in our lives stuff goes wrong all the time,

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Speaker 3: like life.

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Speaker 2: If you're going to talk with that narrative, yes, life

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Speaker 2: is unfair, but it's almost like, well is that right?

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Speaker 2: Like is it I'm very that just shit just happens,

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Speaker 2: you know, in the way and in the worst case scenario,

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Speaker 2: we can play this victim and when we go into victimville,

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Speaker 2: we can get very, very stuck, and it can paralyze us.

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Speaker 3: It can stop us from from.

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Speaker 2: Living the life that we actually want to want to

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Speaker 2: live and focusing on the things that are important to us.

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Speaker 1: No, you've opened a door for me to have a right.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, I was going to say to you

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Speaker 3: at the start, can you just like tone down the rant?

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Speaker 3: That's my narrative.

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Speaker 1: Gods, it's as you said. The word you said, the

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Speaker 1: victimhood work right. And so the way that I like

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Speaker 1: to position this and the way that I like to

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Speaker 1: think about it anytime i'm feeling a little bit sorry

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Speaker 1: for myself is I'll never forget watching an episode of

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Speaker 1: David Attenborough, right, and it was they were studying ant colonies.

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Speaker 1: So there was this big field and there was an

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Speaker 1: ants nest on one side and another ants nest on

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Speaker 1: the other side, and what happened was the ants bumped

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Speaker 1: into each other, right, And then they're such good communicators.

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Speaker 1: I love watching ants in the way they communicate. So

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Speaker 1: these messages, these chemical messages go back to the nest

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Speaker 1: super super quick. And then all the soldier ants came

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Speaker 1: out and they went to war. Basically and there was

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Speaker 1: this one little series our sequence were they actually filmed this.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how they did it, but it was us.

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Speaker 1: The soldier ants of one side actually captured an ant

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Speaker 1: and three or four of the soldier ants were holding

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Speaker 1: it down and another one of the soldier ants came

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Speaker 1: out and it cut it with its pincer right down

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Speaker 1: the abdomen, right so cut, so imagine this right cut,

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Speaker 1: its stomach opened completely, and then injected acid into it,

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Speaker 1: and the acid just to et that ant from the

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Speaker 1: inside out. And that's fucking life. That has been life

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Speaker 1: for the four and a half billion years that there's

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Speaker 1: been life on this planet, not all of it. It

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Speaker 1: was only when we you know, you started having animals

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Speaker 1: that you know, bad shit happens all the time, has

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Speaker 1: throughout history.

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Speaker 3: The Lord, you're not an ant.

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Speaker 1: You're not an I know exactly, that's the thing. But

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Speaker 1: it's just like you know, for more of the history

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Speaker 1: of our species, we've been preyed upon by all sorts

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Speaker 1: of bad shit. And you know, still in lots of

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Speaker 1: places in the world there is war right now. I

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Speaker 1: mean everybody knows about Ukraine and Israel, but I mean

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Speaker 1: it's the ship that's happening in Sudan right now, where

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Speaker 1: little kids are being executed and stuff like that. Like,

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Speaker 1: there's just all sorts of shit going on all around

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Speaker 1: the world and always has been. And this expectation that

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Speaker 1: lights should be good is just a creation. It's a

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Speaker 1: narrative that that we just create. But anyway, there's my

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Speaker 1: there's my little rant that don't expect life to be good.

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Speaker 1: Do not expect life to be rosy. You need to

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Speaker 1: expect that, as the Buddha said, life is suffering and

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Speaker 1: you better be fucking ready to roll your sleeves up

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Speaker 1: on occasion. Now, luckily in this country and most of

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Speaker 1: our listeners probably live in pretty safe environments, and probably

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Speaker 1: maybe not all of them, but there will be times

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Speaker 1: that you need to freakin scrap and rule your sleeves up,

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Speaker 1: maybe even fight for your survival. But sitting around and

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Speaker 1: playing the victim and going that's not for that person

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Speaker 1: offended me. It's really not for you.

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Speaker 2: And it's not that we shouldn't feel bad, because of course,

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Speaker 2: when things happen to us on any sort of level,

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Speaker 2: we all have different responses to that that quite often

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Speaker 2: we feel an emotion about it.

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Speaker 3: And it's not about you shouldn't.

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Speaker 2: Feel this way, But it's really how you then respond

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Speaker 2: to that emotion or you respond to those thoughts that

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Speaker 2: come up, because if you stay in victimville, it's really

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Speaker 2: not helpful. It's not helpful to you, and it's not

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Speaker 2: helpful to anyone. So this is where I love at

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Speaker 2: acceptance commitment therapy, because we accept the emotion that comes up,

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Speaker 2: we accept the thoughts that we come up that come up,

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Speaker 2: but we don't stay in that. We don't stay what

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Speaker 2: we call fused with those if we and this is

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Speaker 2: where there's tools come in because if we can take

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Speaker 2: that step back, and part of what we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk today is a tool around reappraising a situation, because

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Speaker 2: when we get stuck in our narratives, stuck in our story,

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Speaker 2: then it's like there's no space for any other perspective.

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Speaker 2: And I love that analogy of the camera. When it's

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Speaker 2: just on one lens, that's all we can see. But

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Speaker 2: when we put it on panoramic, then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: we can see there's other perspectives, there's other options, and

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Speaker 2: we're not just stuck in this one kind of space,

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Speaker 2: which can often be when we're a victim so yeah,

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Speaker 2: so reappraisal, do you want to go into to what

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Speaker 2: reappraisal is?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So GM's gross has done a lot of work

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Speaker 1: on reappraisal and I was very fortunate to have him

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Speaker 1: as one of my lecturers when I was doing my

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Speaker 1: pulshgrad in neuroscience, and he presented a per that he's

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Speaker 1: done research. And then actually we've discussed the paper were

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Speaker 1: it actually showed reappraisal versus acceptance. And you know, we're

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Speaker 1: both big fans of acceptance, but reappraisal was even more

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Speaker 1: powerful than acceptance. But this one study I wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk about in two thousand and five was he took

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people who had really bad experiences in

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Speaker 1: their life and some of them, you know, just he

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Speaker 1: just let them do their normal thing, which was they

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Speaker 1: tended to suppress it. And many people will relate to

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Speaker 1: this that, you know, a really bad thing, when it

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Speaker 1: pops up in your memory, you just kind of shut

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Speaker 1: it down, right, And that can come from being extremely

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Speaker 1: embarrassed about something or feeling shame or something really really

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Speaker 1: bad that happened. And so what he did was he

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Speaker 1: took half of these people who'd been through capital T Trauma,

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Speaker 1: not Little tea Capital T Trauma, and taught half of

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Speaker 1: them the art of reappraisal, which I interpret as finding

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Speaker 1: the silver lining. So basically he got them to say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: so what happened, what was the event? What were the results? Nah,

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Speaker 1: I want you to think about the silver lining. I

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Speaker 1: want you to think about the good thing that came

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Speaker 1: from that bad event sometime down the track. That is

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Speaker 1: pretty key. That sometime down the track, right. So it

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Speaker 1: can be that you lose a job and then you

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Speaker 1: end up getting another job that ends up being better

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Speaker 1: than that, but at the time that you lost a job,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty horrible. But let's take a real extreme

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Speaker 1: version of that, is that somebody died and people would

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Speaker 1: often say to me in workshops, well, where's the silver lining?

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Speaker 1: I said, Well, how often do you hear people say

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Speaker 1: that when someone died they leant into someone else and

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Speaker 1: they developed a really strong relationship with them, or they

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Speaker 1: were feuding with a partner or a sibling and they thought,

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Speaker 1: you know what, life's too short, let's bury the hatchet.

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Speaker 1: Or they realized their own mortality and they thought, actually,

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Speaker 1: I need to do something different with my life, and

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Speaker 1: I've got a real clear example, which was, and you

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Speaker 1: remember this, there was a period when I was in

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Speaker 1: the forces, and there was about six months period where

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Speaker 1: quite a number of friends of mine died. So Dave Cole,

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Speaker 1: who you remember, well, great guy, killed in helicopter christ

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Speaker 1: that was an accident. And then friends of mine were

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Speaker 1: killed out in the Gulf. Well I wasn't friends with

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Speaker 1: all of them, but I knew them all. And it

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Speaker 1: was two helicopters collided, but two really good met to

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Speaker 1: mine were in that helicopter, Andy Wilson and Phil And

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Speaker 1: that kind of shook me up because there was a

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Speaker 1: reasonable scenario that I could have been in one of

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Speaker 1: those helicopters. But the silver lining of that was that

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Speaker 1: I started thinking about what I wanted to do with

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Speaker 1: my life. And I, if you remember, that was the

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Speaker 1: point of I was short career commission, which is eight

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Speaker 1: years for our crew, and I had a big decision

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Speaker 1: to make whether I went full career or left. And

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Speaker 1: just because of the circumstances that surrounded up, which I

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Speaker 1: won't go into, but that didn't have to happen, that

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Speaker 1: helicopter crash, and I thought, I don't want anybody to

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Speaker 1: be in control of my destiny. So I decided to leave.

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Speaker 1: And I had been if you remember, doing a master's

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Speaker 1: in nutrition anyway, and I remember my secondary role at

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Speaker 1: the time was sports officer, and I started writing a

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Speaker 1: well being newsletter and I already had my master's in

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Speaker 1: next Fiz And I remember one day walking across the

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Speaker 1: period ground at hits Amas Gannett int Preswick, and a chief,

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Speaker 1: an old chief, came up to me and he said,

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Speaker 1: that newsletter you wrote was frigging awesome. It not only

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Speaker 1: impacted me, but it impacted my family, and I just

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Speaker 1: want to thank you for it. And that's where I went,

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Speaker 1: this is what I want to do. And I remember

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Speaker 1: shortly after that creating a tombstone statement which has been

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Speaker 1: refined a little bit, but it was essentially similar time.

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Speaker 1: And my tombstone statement was military man turned educator to

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Speaker 1: help others become better versions of themselves. So if those

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Speaker 1: guys Phil and Andy hadn't been killed in that helicopter crash,

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Speaker 1: that wouldn't have happened and wouldn't have set me on

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Speaker 1: the path to where I am right now. And you

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Speaker 1: know you've got similar story with Oscar. Why don't you

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Speaker 1: tell that quickly?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, when Oscar had Cushing's disease, and it was

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Speaker 2: a really really hard time and just so much uncertainty

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Speaker 2: and a lot of pretty serious risks for the surgery that.

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Speaker 3: He was doing.

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Speaker 2: So it was really hard and stressful. The silver lining

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Speaker 2: now looking back on that for me is Oscar, as

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Speaker 2: a result of sort of the decline in his mental health,

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Speaker 2: spent a lot of time at home and a lot

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Speaker 2: of time with us, And I remember that time just

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Speaker 2: this bond that we really developed that you know, you've

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Speaker 2: always got a bond well, I would hope with your kids,

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Speaker 2: but this was at another level. And so we are

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Speaker 2: now very very close. And also for him because it

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Speaker 2: was stressful for him as a twelve year old, and

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Speaker 2: now he can now look back on it and go, well,

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Speaker 2: I actually know what stress feels like, and so other

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Speaker 2: things that possibly other kids are finding stressful, he kind

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Speaker 2: of looks at those and puts that in perspective and goes, actually,

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Speaker 2: that's not stressful because I know what stress feels like.

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Speaker 2: So you know, it's not to say that, you know,

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Speaker 2: if I could change things, you know, and I'm sure

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Speaker 2: you're the same. Of course, you don't want your friends

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Speaker 2: killed and I would don't want my son having a

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Speaker 2: tumor on.

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Speaker 3: His pitiritary gland.

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Speaker 2: But that was the situation, and so it's widening that

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Speaker 2: perspective and going with this, with this situation that was

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Speaker 2: really really hard, something good did come of it.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's the critical part of reappraisal, is

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Speaker 1: that you don't dismiss the situation. You go, you know what,

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Speaker 1: that was a really hard time, but here's the good

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Speaker 1: that came out of that. Down the track, right, And

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's a long time down the track, but it's

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Speaker 1: you acknowledge that it was really difficult, but you then

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Speaker 1: focus on the silver lining. And it's I guess it's

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Speaker 1: very strongly linked to the old stoic concept of that

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Speaker 1: we are all actors in play and that sometimes you

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Speaker 1: don't control the part that you're given. But Epicteta says

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Speaker 1: that you need to play your given roles well and

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Speaker 1: that that you know, one of his given rules was

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Speaker 1: to be a cripple. That he was beaten by his

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Speaker 1: Roman master, became a cripple, and he said, well, the fact,

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Speaker 1: if it is my role to be a crippled, then

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be the best damn crippled that I

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Speaker 1: can be. So I think the question is, you know,

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Speaker 1: bad shit happens to good people all the time, and

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Speaker 1: it's how you're going to use it, Like, how are

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Speaker 1: you're going to take that energy and do something with it?

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Speaker 1: And that's where that reappraisal comes in. And James Gross

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Speaker 1: has done further research where it's actually shown that when

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Speaker 1: bad stuff happens in and of the moment, if you

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Speaker 1: actually sit back and go, yeah, this is really bad,

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Speaker 1: but what might the silver lining be in the future,

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Speaker 1: and that really reduces the amount of stress that you feel.

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Speaker 1: So it's just that psychological shift, right, It's a bit

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Speaker 1: of psychological flexibility to change the lens that you're looking

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Speaker 1: at the situation.

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Speaker 2: I love that because that links in with our future

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Speaker 2: self stuff that we were talking about episodes ago.

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Speaker 3: Things intertwined with this stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it links him with future self, at links him

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Speaker 1: of the article that I wrote and the podcast I

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Speaker 1: did on optimism. It links him with hope as well.

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Speaker 1: And it is really just about choosing how you react

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Speaker 1: to your circumstances. You know, Victor Frankel, the last of

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Speaker 1: human freedoms, the ability to choose how you react to

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Speaker 1: your circumstances. And he wasn't somebody who just come up

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Speaker 1: with this stuff in an office. He survived doce fits,

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Speaker 1: you know, really really difficult stuff. But there's a consistency

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Speaker 1: amongst philosophers and psychiatrists that actually realized that we can

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Speaker 1: actually choose how we react. And I think reappraising a

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Speaker 1: situation to try and find the silver lining is very,

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Speaker 1: very powerful. And I think the the op shot of

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Speaker 1: all of this is, you know, there's a couple of

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Speaker 1: phrases in our house that we talk about all the time.

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Speaker 1: You know, get comfortable with being uncomfortable, and be a

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Speaker 1: silver lining hunter because sometimes you've got to hunt for

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Speaker 1: the silver lining. And I think the other one that

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Speaker 1: the reappraisals added in was, you know, we have that

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Speaker 1: old scenario that we say in our house, if something

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Speaker 1: bad happens, is anyone dead? And is anyone pregnant? Right?

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Speaker 1: And when you have a fifty five year old wife

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Speaker 1: and an eighteen year old daughter, that second one is

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Speaker 1: really important, yes something?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we add the third one is anyone dead,

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Speaker 2: it's anyone pregnant?

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Speaker 3: Has anyone got cushings disease?

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's right. A little bit of reappraisal. So that's

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Speaker 1: it for this week, folks. So your homework is to

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Speaker 1: actually look back on a bad time in your life

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Speaker 1: or a bad event and find the silver lining. And

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Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes the silver lining is so hard

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Speaker 1: to find with this, it's maybe the silver lining is

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Speaker 1: that you've survived it and it's actually made you tougher

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Speaker 1: and then it's enhanced your character. And to get the

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Speaker 1: back to the ancient Greeks and the Stoics. You know,

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Speaker 1: the word character comes from the ancient Greek of a

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Speaker 1: mark of a chisel. So it's actually looking back on

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Speaker 1: those tough times that people have been through and go,

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Speaker 1: you know what, that's a mark of a chisel, And

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Speaker 1: I need to word that like a badge of honor

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Speaker 1: because I got through this and that's helping.

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Speaker 3: My resilience very powerful.

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Speaker 1: That's it for this week, folks. Catch you next time.