WEBVTT - He stole $370,000 from me... 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:04.000 Good morning everyone, and welcome back to Sugar Mamma's Fireplay, 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:07.480 the podcast that ignites your financial journey with inspiring stories 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:13.040 and innovative strategies. I am your host, financial planner, Canna Campbell. 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:16.000 Now today we have a I guess you could say 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:22.840 financial fraud, financial abuse, financial disaster if I say this 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:26.159 with so much compassion to what you've gone through. We 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:30.440 are joined today with Tracy Hall. Now, I actually interviewed 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.960 Tracy Hall four years ago on my YouTube channel and 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.640 she shared her story about a serial con man who 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:41.560 swindled more than seventy million dollars out of innocent, everyday people. 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:46.000 Among those people included herself, who is actually in a 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:49.200 relationship with him at the time, using a fake name 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:53.559 of Max Tavita. Now, if this is sounding very familiar 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.440 apart from my YouTube channel, you may have actually listened 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:00.520 to the podcast series Who the Hell Is Hamish? Well, 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.160 Tracy Hall has just published her first book about this 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:08.160 experience sin it's called The Last Victim, and she is 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:12.080 here with us this morning to share her story, her insights, 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.880 and her important message for every single person to protect 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:39.800 themselves from this listening to them. 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:40.880 Tracy, thank you so much. 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:44.080 For continuity in today, Can you please share with us 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:47.920 your experience with I guess the true name will call 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:51.240 them Hamish McLaren, and how you became victim to his scheme. 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:53.000 Yeah, sure, thanks for having me. 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.920 By the way, I first met a man on a 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:59.320 dating app in twenty sixteen, a man called Max Tavita. 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.400 I swiped right and we dated for nearly eighteen months 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:07.240 and it wasn't until he was arrested in twenty seventeen 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:10.280 that I found out his true identity. He told me 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.959 he was a chief financial officer for a family office. 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.000 And we spent you know, eighteen months together in a 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:21.080 serious relationship, taking holidays, spending weekends, going for dinners, all 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:22.760 the things you do in a kind of a mid 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:27.000 forties relationship. And yeah, I woke up to some video 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.360 footage of him being arrested outside of his apartment in Sydney. 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:32.440 On the news, wasn't it. Yeah, it was a crime 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:33.079 Stoppers video. 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.800 It was just an online news article, and I, you know, 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.040 obviously got in contact with the police and they said, yeah, 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.359 his name is not Max. His name is Hamish McLaren 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.320 and he's one of Austrai's most notorious common. 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:49.120 I have goosebumps like running through my body. Even though 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.519 I know this story so well and you know, from 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:55.760 four years ago, still like shakes me up listening to it. 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.600 So I can only imagine what you're going through. Can 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:03.480 we go to the red flags? Like, did ever something think, 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.080 oh that doesn't sound right or feel right? Like was 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:10.519 there ever something in your gut that the does stack 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:12.440 up correctly at the time? 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.840 No, I mean he was quirky, he had quirks, for sure, 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.639 but he doesn't he doesn't have quirks. Are all a 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.919 bit weird, right, And I think there, you know, there's 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:23.760 a great quote in my book which says, you know, 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.880 we can only connect the dots in reverse, and it's 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:28.840 not until we look backwards that we start to go. 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:32.520 Oh, yeah that was a bit weird, or yeah, that's true. 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.320 They're so the dots. 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.760 You're connecting the dots in reverse, and hindsight such a 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:38.400 beautiful thing. 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.920 And Rihanns never made a bad decision in his life. 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:43.480 And I think the other thing too is, you know, 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.280 when you're in a relationship and you're in love, you know, 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.760 and you're wearing your rose colored glasses, all the red 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:52.360 flags are just flags. Yeah, and I do explore that 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.560 a lot in detail in my book is going through 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.080 the stories and the detail of how he kind of 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:03.040 weaseled his way into my life very deeply, but taking 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.240 a moment within the book to kind of pull out 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.280 the red flags which I could only see in in retrospect. 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.520 Weasel is the perfect term, like he really is an 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.880 absolute toxic parasite. When it could go back to how 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:20.040 he gained your trust initially, like were there any you know, 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.960 swami tactics that he used now that you've got, you know, 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.800 the benefit of hindsight now to help, I guess, solidify 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:28.919 your trust even further. 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:31.760 I think the thing to say about Hamish is that 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.120 he was a professional, so he has never had a 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.680 job other than being a con man. He's done this 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.520 for decades, so he's very very good at what he does. 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:44.640 I think in retrospect, what I know about him is 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.280 that he spent a lot of time with me and 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:50.200 doing things to gain my trust. 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:50.800 So he listened. 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.160 He was a phenomenal listener it so all he had 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.680 to do was listen to what I say and repeat 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:00.080 or actually create that within himself and represent back to 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.000 me for me to fall in love with him. So 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:06.000 he was fantastic at mirroring, and most of us as 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:09.599 humans have a similarity bias, which means, if you look 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:11.880 like me, if you sound like me, if you like 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.160 the same things as me, if your values are the same, 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:18.359 I'm going to naturally trust and love you because you know, 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.920 it's a reflection of yourself, really, And so that's what 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:25.680 he did. He presented himself in a way mirrored back 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.840 to me, knowing that if he just did the things 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.159 that I wanted or that I said I wanted in 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.280 my life, that I would fall in love with him. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:35.880 And one hundred percent I did and I trusted him, 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.240 and so they were a couple of the tactics he used. 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.400 He was very slow in his approach. You know, it 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.000 wasn't like he knocked on my door one day and 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:46.520 you know I said give me all your money, pulled 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:47.479 a fast one and left. 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:49.760 You know, this was an eighteen month relationship. 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:51.839 Well, this is like any form of abuse. He just 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.880 doesn't suddenly start happening. It's you know, a push he 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.880 or a shove there, a pinch or you know, saying 0:05:57.920 --> 0:05:59.799 something that's a bit mean and nasty, and it getting 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:04.240 increasingly aggressive and psychologically damaging. It deepens over time, but 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:06.320 to the point where you've lost yourself completely and kinda 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:08.160 she even identify exactly. 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:08.280 What's going on. 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:10.800 Yeah, can we go back to the moment where you 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:14.120 realize that you were actually a victim yourself, not just 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:18.119 in a relationship wise, but also financially. What was running 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:19.159 through your mind at the time. 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:21.760 I think when I first saw the video of him 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:25.000 being arrested and knowing it was him, knowing it was 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:29.240 my boyfriend being arrested, the first feeling was disbelief because 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.920 this was a man I loved that, you know, we 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.120 were building a future together. And I was watching him 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.400 being arrested with you know, a headline of him swindling 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:39.039 people out of money, and I thought there must be 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.839 a mistake. And it wasn't until I spoke to the 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:46.120 head detective Tom Zadrevic, that, you know, I realized very 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.440 quickly what I was dealing with, and I was a 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:50.400 victim and I needed to spend some time with the 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:54.560 police to unravel the previous eighteen months of my life. 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:58.680 I felt, you know, I felt physically ill. I felt 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:03.800 so betrayed. I you know, I was in disbelief that 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.160 something like this could happen to me. And I think 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.120 we all think that, you know, you see these stories 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.080 on the news and you know, on a current affairs 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:13.480 shows and things like that, and you think, God, that 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:14.400 will never happen to me. 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:15.360 I'm better than that. 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.960 I'm smarter, I've you know, I'm well educated, I've traveled 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.000 the world, I've got a great intuition. And yet here 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.680 I am. I lost my life savings to a con man. 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:29.440 So disbelieve betrayal, deep, deep betrayal. And then I think 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:34.800 it just went into sadness, depression, you know, and then 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.160 having to realize that I had to rebuild my life. 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:41.640 The grief, ye, the grief it was there was You're right, 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.679 there's a lot of grief because I was I thought 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.360 that I'd met my match. I was building a relationship 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:49.840 with this man, and I believe that he had the best, 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.920 you know, my best interests at heart, and so I 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.520 was grieving a relationship. But that that grief had hit 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.000 me very very quickly. It was like it was like 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:03.400 a death of a person, because in fact, Max Tavita 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:06.680 never existed, so within sort of you know, it took 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:08.280 me eighteen months to fall in love with him, but 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.160 twenty four hours and I had to fall out. 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.840 Of love with him very very quickly. So that was hard. 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.480 And then I went into the very pragmatic and rational 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:19.920 exercise of untangling the financial situation I found myself in. 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.360 Dealing with the ATO, dealing with a non compliance superannuation 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:26.520 fund which he had convinced me to set up a 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:28.520 self managed super fund and that's where most of my 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:32.640 money went, dealing with a potential dodgy tax return that 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.760 he had helped me with. There was so much to untangle, 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.840 and at the same time, you know, making a police 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:42.040 statement and at the same time being a single mom 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.520 and working a really huge job and trying not to 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:47.080 lose my job at the same time as it was 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:48.080 the on income I had. 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:52.480 Wow, there is so much to deal with. You've got 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.160 to using your brain's got to be switched on on sharp, 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:59.800 going through the intricacies of fixing tax trends, dealing with 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:04.240 the obviously filing very detailed reports with the police and 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.160 working with them and helping them as much as you can. 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.560 Plus the emotional vulnerability in going through all of that, 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:13.559 and complicated grief and all the emotions that come with that, 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:15.880 and also the twists and turns. You think you're through something, 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:17.679 and then something will happen and then you're back again. 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.480 Like it's it's not like we just gradually moved through grief. 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.680 We can very easily be triggered back again. I can't 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.800 even imagine, like what you've gone through. But how much 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:29.240 did you lose financially? 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:30.240 In total? 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.640 I lost three hundred and seventeen thousand dollars, which was 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.840 my entire career supernuation and some savings and then some 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.160 shares that I vested through my you know, through my 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:42.240 career in tech marketing. 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:48.920 How have you rebuilt yourself emotionally from here and financially? 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.640 I guess there's two questions the loading you up, Let's 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:53.079 go with the emotional side fights. 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.120 Like how have you moved from on from this? 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.520 Like, yeah, so I'm not going to lie. It was 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:02.360 really hard. It's seven years now. So one of the 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.679 beautiful things about life is time does heal well wounds. 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:06.760 I think, and. 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.600 Sometimes it just takes time to look back on a 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:15.600 situation with perspective and grace and you know, but the 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.920 first few years I was so hard, you know, in 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:20.520 sort of one part of my brain, I had this 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.560 really huge job and I couldn't lose it. So going 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.079 to work every day and working fourteen sixteen hour days 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:27.240 was such a blessing. 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:29.840 Like how did you do that? And you're like it 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.080 was a blessing. I'm like, oh my god, it was 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:32.880 a blessing. 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:34.640 Because trade at work, there was that in your head. 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:35.960 I guess it was escaping. 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.120 It was escaping, it was compartmentalizing. When I was at work, 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.760 I was running a big team. I was, you know, 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:46.560 delivering campaigns. I was delivering my KPIs. It was busy 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:48.640 and it was full on. So I didn't have a 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.360 lot of time to sit in naval gaze and really 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:53.840 be concerned about what was happening because I was just 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:56.880 so scared of losing my job, to be honest, because 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:58.439 I just had to keep performing. 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:00.120 So that was a blessing. 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.360 I have a beautiful daughter who you know, was quite 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:06.360 young at the time, six and a half seven years old, 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:09.400 and I made a decision very early on that there 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.080 would be no tears at the dinner table, so we 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.560 didn't discuss this at home. I didn't want to worry her. 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.440 I knew that I had to keep going, and you know, 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.000 having someone else in your life that's a bigger than you, 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.959 that needs you, helps you get out of bed every day. 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.280 So I'm so blessed that I had her. 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:28.920 You know, I had to make her lunch every day, 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.360 get her to school, get her to activities. So that 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.720 was another thing that was really helpful. And then I 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:39.760 would just cry at nighttime, basically, and I got a 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:43.120 lot of therapy, and I pulled my world in quite small. 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.480 I didn't trust anybody. There weren't many people that knew 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:50.959 what had happened very early on, because I think it 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.880 was just so overwhelming for me. I was embarrassed, I 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.040 was ashamed. I couldn't believe that this had happened to me. 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:58.560 I didn't know if I was going to get my 0:11:58.600 --> 0:11:59.559 money back, I didn't know. 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:00.400 What was going on. Happened. 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.720 No one would talk to me about who Hamish really was, 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.880 and so I pulled my world in pretty small, got 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:12.440 a lot of therapy. I ended up on antidepressants on 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:16.400 the advice of my psychologist and my GP, because you know, 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.559 crying for a few days or a few weeks is okay. 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:21.559 But I had been crying every day for four months, 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.000 and you know, someone had to say to me, that's 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:28.440 not okay, that's not normal, it's not sustainable. So that 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:30.559 was something I did do for a period of time 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.760 that helped me out of that. I love exercising. That 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.200 such a solace for me. You know, they were just 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.320 the basic things. I concentrated on my sleep because I 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.240 knew that without sleep, I'm not a very great human. 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:44.560 Sleep is a form of medicine, it is. 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:46.959 And so like you know, some people self care and 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:49.040 journal for three hours in the morning into yoga and 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.120 have their beautiful cacal ceremonies, which I don't have the 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.400 lottery of doing because I'm a single mum and working 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.720 full time. But for me, my self care was going 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.280 to bed early and saying no to the invitation or 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.760 whatever it might be. So I think there was a 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.160 bunch of things that I did to get through emotionally, 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:07.920 and then just with time and with support and with 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.160 the right structures around me, I've just you know, I've 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.760 built myself up. And then of course during the podcast 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:17.960 with The Australian and Greg Barrup was incredibly healing journey 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.800 for me because I found out all the things I 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.600 needed to know to put the puzzle together in my 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.920 mind in the correct way. That helped me cope with 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:28.120 with what had actually happened. 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.760 Wow, that was a very long end. 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.200 No, it was, but like it is full of so 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.440 many nuggets of gold and so much wonderful advice. You know, 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:39.920 whether you're going through just a simple breakup, or whether 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.839 you're going through a financial loss or you know, a 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:44.840 aning type of loss. You know, I think there's so 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.959 much in that, and you know, I can relate for 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.040 all you're saying about, you know, needing to get professional help, 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:54.360 you know, needing to go to get on medication, needing 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:58.319 to go to bed early, prioritizing sleep, and bringing your 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.640 circle in tight, you know, really retreating and keeping the 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:03.200 people who are important to you close to you because 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:05.960 they're a form of oxygen to help keep you going. 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.160 Can we move on to the financial part of your journey. 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.920 I mean, it's a lot of money to lose. I 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:17.480 mean that's a significant percentage I imagine of your wealth. 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:22.760 It was everything, like let's call it one hundred percent. Yeah, okay, 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.680 all right. How have you recovered? 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:29.240 I mean we're seven years on now, Like, how have 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.360 you managed to find the energy to get back on 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.160 your feet again? What have you done and what has 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.480 helped the most in your recovery? And have you got 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:36.480 any of this money back? 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:38.560 None of the money has come back. None of the 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:42.160 victims have received any money back. According to the police 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.600 in the case, in the investigation that was done, there 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:47.000 is no money anywhere. 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:49.320 So that's that. 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.480 And I guess accepting that and focusing my energy on 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.040 myself and my own financial recovery has been key for me. 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.720 So very early on, I went found to find itcial advisor, 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.200 and that was such a hard thing for me to do, 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:08.600 to trust someone else with money. And you know, I 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:09.960 guess it's not lost on me that I had a 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.240 really good job and I've always worked. 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:17.760 And you're a hard worker, I know, and you know 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:19.520 I love work. I love what I do. 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:23.360 And but for me, holding onto job even through pregnancy 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:25.320 and babies and all of that stuff is just so 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.240 important for me because it allowed me, you know, even 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.720 with the financial flat And then I experienced st affter Haymi. 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.800 She gave me choices, and choices are important for everyone, 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.720 but they're especially important for women, I think. And so 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.880 I had a job and what I did was I 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:46.320 I was recommended three financial advisors. I researched all of them, 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.320 I met all three of them. I did reference texts 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:51.160 on all of them. I went deep on you. 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.160 I went deep, can so should? I mean, I think 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:56.840 you know everyone should be doing? 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:03.320 Yeah, register sure, they had their AFSL, a strong financial 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.760 services license. What they were able to advise me on. 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.200 I did all the things that I should have done 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:14.280 previously with Amish, and I met the most wonderful woman 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:16.920 and she sat with me and she asked me all 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.680 the right questions. She was so compassionate, she was so empathetic, 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.520 and I just cried a lot, and she said, you're 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.040 going to be okay. We're going to put a plan 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.320 in place. You you know, it's not a secret that 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.160 you're not going to retire with as much superannuation and 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.600 wealth as you thought you would based on losing your 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:39.360 twenty year career savings. But we're going to do some 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.400 other things and if you follow the plan, you're going 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.440 to be fine. I'm very disciplined, So I did what 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:47.720 she said. I put one hundred percent of my trust 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.760 into her, and she's still my financial planner today. We 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:55.040 still work on strategies to build my wealth, manage my budget, 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:59.600 manage my life, and you know that that's been a 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.600 one of full support for me. I have a pretty 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.520 contained life. I spend my money on experiences in travel. 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.280 I don't you know, I don't live in a big place. 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.080 I you know, I have a fully paid off car. 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.560 I don't have any debt other than my you know 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.520 where I live and you know, so things are pretty 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.720 simple for me and I love to travel and that's 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.760 what that's what I try and do. So everything's planned, 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:29.080 everything's disciplined, and over time it's you know, I have 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.760 got back on my feet and I have found the 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:34.600 ways to you know, have an incredible life. 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:36.680 And yeah, I'm so grateful for that. 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.880 Knowing you personally and we have a few mutual friends, 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.080 I have no doubt you will make back that money 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:48.520 because you're such a hard worker. You see great opportunities, 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.800 and you're incredibly intelligent. So I feel like you've got 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:53.600 a great financial plan behind you and she's going to 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:55.919 get you the best place she can. I don't underestimate 0:17:55.960 --> 0:18:00.240 what you can actually do to leap from and see 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:01.200 your expectations. 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:05.399 So definitely manifesting that for myself, that's what I like that. 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:10.120 Yeah, you know, miracles happen as well. Are you in 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.399 contact with any of the victims still, because there's a 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:13.680 long list of victims. 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:15.080 There's a long list of victims. 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:17.960 I met the majority of them through the case in Australia, 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.800 So the case that where he was prosecuted in Australia 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.720 fifteen victims, seven point six six million dollars, but we 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:27.919 do know globally it's closer to seventy eighty one hundred 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.640 million dollars. I did meet a lot of the victims 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:35.600 through that process, which and also through the podcast. They 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:40.679 are the Samish, So that was an incredible opportunity for healing, 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.760 I think for all of us, because when you meet 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.199 other people and you realize that you're not alone in 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:50.800 any situation in life that has flattened you, that is 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:55.640 a blessing because you know, feeling alone in that grief 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:59.960 and that shame was horrible. And then when I met 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.280 some of the other victims and became friends with them, 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:07.280 shared stories and heard really the extent of his criminal past, 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.760 that made me feel I don't know, it just gave 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.760 me a lot of comfort. So yeah, I am still 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.119 in contact with a bunch of them. They're all at 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.679 different stages in their journeys, and that's what it is. 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.600 Now you've just written your first book. I want to 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:24.960 hear about what inspired you to actually write this book 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:26.760 up everything you've gone through. 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:32.080 Yeah, so the inspiration behind the book came. I've done 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.280 a lot of talking about what happened with Hamish and 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:40.720 through the podcast, through media interviews, and what I've realized 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:45.480 is that it's very hard to explain the insidious nature 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:49.880 of intimate fraud in a two minute interview or in 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.719 fact even a twenty minute podcast. You know, there's so 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:56.480 much that happens, and there's so much detail, and there's 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:00.840 so much coercion that happened in the reliefationship that I 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:05.080 needed seventy five thousand words to explain that. And the 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.520 other thing about the book is it's broken into three parts, 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:11.160 so this before, during, and after Hamish. So a lot 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:13.960 of people know what happened during the Hamish era. Yeah, 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.760 you know, that's been well recorded. But what I really 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.760 wanted to explain was my life before I met Hamish, 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.119 and a whole bunch of things that happened to me 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:26.240 in my life before Hamish, which I believe set me 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.639 up in a way that gave me a level of 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.879 resilience to weather the storm when Hamish hit. So I 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.359 go into detail about that. So, my father died when 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:38.520 I was young, when I was about twenty six, of Lakemia. 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:41.600 Very suddenly, my mum got breast cancer and my marriage 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.440 broke down. My best friend's husband died, I had a miscarriage. 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.200