1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Good morning everyone, and welcome back to Sugar Mamma's Fireplay, 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: the podcast that ignites your financial journey with inspiring stories 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: and innovative strategies. I am your host, financial planner, Canna Campbell. 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: Now today we have a I guess you could say 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: financial fraud, financial abuse, financial disaster if I say this 6 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,159 Speaker 1: with so much compassion to what you've gone through. We 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: are joined today with Tracy Hall. Now, I actually interviewed 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: Tracy Hall four years ago on my YouTube channel and 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: she shared her story about a serial con man who 10 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: swindled more than seventy million dollars out of innocent, everyday people. 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: Among those people included herself, who is actually in a 12 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: relationship with him at the time, using a fake name 13 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: of Max Tavita. Now, if this is sounding very familiar 14 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: apart from my YouTube channel, you may have actually listened 15 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: to the podcast series Who the Hell Is Hamish? Well, 16 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: Tracy Hall has just published her first book about this 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: experience sin it's called The Last Victim, and she is 18 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: here with us this morning to share her story, her insights, 19 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: and her important message for every single person to protect 20 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: themselves from this listening to them. 21 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: Tracy, thank you so much. 22 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: For continuity in today, Can you please share with us 23 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: your experience with I guess the true name will call 24 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: them Hamish McLaren, and how you became victim to his scheme. 25 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, thanks for having me. 26 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 3: By the way, I first met a man on a 27 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 3: dating app in twenty sixteen, a man called Max Tavita. 28 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 3: I swiped right and we dated for nearly eighteen months 29 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 3: and it wasn't until he was arrested in twenty seventeen 30 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: that I found out his true identity. He told me 31 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 3: he was a chief financial officer for a family office. 32 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 3: And we spent you know, eighteen months together in a 33 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 3: serious relationship, taking holidays, spending weekends, going for dinners, all 34 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 3: the things you do in a kind of a mid 35 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 3: forties relationship. And yeah, I woke up to some video 36 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 3: footage of him being arrested outside of his apartment in Sydney. 37 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: On the news, wasn't it. Yeah, it was a crime 38 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 2: Stoppers video. 39 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 3: It was just an online news article, and I, you know, 40 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 3: obviously got in contact with the police and they said, yeah, 41 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 3: his name is not Max. His name is Hamish McLaren 42 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 3: and he's one of Austrai's most notorious common. 43 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: I have goosebumps like running through my body. Even though 44 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 1: I know this story so well and you know, from 45 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: four years ago, still like shakes me up listening to it. 46 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: So I can only imagine what you're going through. Can 47 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: we go to the red flags? Like, did ever something think, 48 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: oh that doesn't sound right or feel right? Like was 49 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: there ever something in your gut that the does stack 50 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: up correctly at the time? 51 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 3: No, I mean he was quirky, he had quirks, for sure, 52 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 3: but he doesn't he doesn't have quirks. Are all a 53 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 3: bit weird, right, And I think there, you know, there's 54 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 3: a great quote in my book which says, you know, 55 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 3: we can only connect the dots in reverse, and it's 56 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 3: not until we look backwards that we start to go. 57 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah that was a bit weird, or yeah, that's true. 58 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: They're so the dots. 59 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 3: You're connecting the dots in reverse, and hindsight such a 60 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 3: beautiful thing. 61 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: And Rihanns never made a bad decision in his life. 62 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 3: And I think the other thing too is, you know, 63 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 3: when you're in a relationship and you're in love, you know, 64 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 3: and you're wearing your rose colored glasses, all the red 65 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 3: flags are just flags. Yeah, and I do explore that 66 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 3: a lot in detail in my book is going through 67 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 3: the stories and the detail of how he kind of 68 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 3: weaseled his way into my life very deeply, but taking 69 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 3: a moment within the book to kind of pull out 70 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 3: the red flags which I could only see in in retrospect. 71 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: Weasel is the perfect term, like he really is an 72 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: absolute toxic parasite. When it could go back to how 73 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: he gained your trust initially, like were there any you know, 74 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: swami tactics that he used now that you've got, you know, 75 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: the benefit of hindsight now to help, I guess, solidify 76 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 1: your trust even further. 77 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 3: I think the thing to say about Hamish is that 78 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 3: he was a professional, so he has never had a 79 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 3: job other than being a con man. He's done this 80 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 3: for decades, so he's very very good at what he does. 81 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 3: I think in retrospect, what I know about him is 82 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 3: that he spent a lot of time with me and 83 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 3: doing things to gain my trust. 84 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 2: So he listened. 85 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 3: He was a phenomenal listener it so all he had 86 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 3: to do was listen to what I say and repeat 87 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 3: or actually create that within himself and represent back to 88 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 3: me for me to fall in love with him. So 89 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 3: he was fantastic at mirroring, and most of us as 90 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 3: humans have a similarity bias, which means, if you look 91 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 3: like me, if you sound like me, if you like 92 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 3: the same things as me, if your values are the same, 93 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 3: I'm going to naturally trust and love you because you know, 94 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 3: it's a reflection of yourself, really, And so that's what 95 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 3: he did. He presented himself in a way mirrored back 96 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 3: to me, knowing that if he just did the things 97 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 3: that I wanted or that I said I wanted in 98 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 3: my life, that I would fall in love with him. 99 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 3: And one hundred percent I did and I trusted him, 100 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 3: and so they were a couple of the tactics he used. 101 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 3: He was very slow in his approach. You know, it 102 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 3: wasn't like he knocked on my door one day and 103 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 3: you know I said give me all your money, pulled 104 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 3: a fast one and left. 105 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: You know, this was an eighteen month relationship. 106 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: Well, this is like any form of abuse. He just 107 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: doesn't suddenly start happening. It's you know, a push he 108 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: or a shove there, a pinch or you know, saying 109 00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:59,799 Speaker 1: something that's a bit mean and nasty, and it getting 110 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: increasingly aggressive and psychologically damaging. It deepens over time, but 111 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: to the point where you've lost yourself completely and kinda 112 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: she even identify exactly. 113 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 2: What's going on. 114 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, can we go back to the moment where you 115 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: realize that you were actually a victim yourself, not just 116 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,119 Speaker 1: in a relationship wise, but also financially. What was running 117 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: through your mind at the time. 118 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 3: I think when I first saw the video of him 119 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 3: being arrested and knowing it was him, knowing it was 120 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 3: my boyfriend being arrested, the first feeling was disbelief because 121 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 3: this was a man I loved that, you know, we 122 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 3: were building a future together. And I was watching him 123 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 3: being arrested with you know, a headline of him swindling 124 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 3: people out of money, and I thought there must be 125 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 3: a mistake. And it wasn't until I spoke to the 126 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 3: head detective Tom Zadrevic, that, you know, I realized very 127 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 3: quickly what I was dealing with, and I was a 128 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 3: victim and I needed to spend some time with the 129 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 3: police to unravel the previous eighteen months of my life. 130 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 3: I felt, you know, I felt physically ill. I felt 131 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: so betrayed. I you know, I was in disbelief that 132 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 3: something like this could happen to me. And I think 133 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 3: we all think that, you know, you see these stories 134 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 3: on the news and you know, on a current affairs 135 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 3: shows and things like that, and you think, God, that 136 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 3: will never happen to me. 137 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 2: I'm better than that. 138 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 3: I'm smarter, I've you know, I'm well educated, I've traveled 139 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 3: the world, I've got a great intuition. And yet here 140 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 3: I am. I lost my life savings to a con man. 141 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: So disbelieve betrayal, deep, deep betrayal. And then I think 142 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 3: it just went into sadness, depression, you know, and then 143 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 3: having to realize that I had to rebuild my life. 144 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 3: The grief, ye, the grief it was there was You're right, 145 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,679 Speaker 3: there's a lot of grief because I was I thought 146 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 3: that I'd met my match. I was building a relationship 147 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 3: with this man, and I believe that he had the best, 148 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 3: you know, my best interests at heart, and so I 149 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 3: was grieving a relationship. But that that grief had hit 150 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 3: me very very quickly. It was like it was like 151 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 3: a death of a person, because in fact, Max Tavita 152 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 3: never existed, so within sort of you know, it took 153 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 3: me eighteen months to fall in love with him, but 154 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 3: twenty four hours and I had to fall out. 155 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 2: Of love with him very very quickly. So that was hard. 156 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 3: And then I went into the very pragmatic and rational 157 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 3: exercise of untangling the financial situation I found myself in. 158 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 3: Dealing with the ATO, dealing with a non compliance superannuation 159 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 3: fund which he had convinced me to set up a 160 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 3: self managed super fund and that's where most of my 161 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 3: money went, dealing with a potential dodgy tax return that 162 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 3: he had helped me with. There was so much to untangle, 163 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 3: and at the same time, you know, making a police 164 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 3: statement and at the same time being a single mom 165 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 3: and working a really huge job and trying not to 166 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 3: lose my job at the same time as it was 167 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 3: the on income I had. 168 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: Wow, there is so much to deal with. You've got 169 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: to using your brain's got to be switched on on sharp, 170 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: going through the intricacies of fixing tax trends, dealing with 171 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: the obviously filing very detailed reports with the police and 172 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: working with them and helping them as much as you can. 173 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: Plus the emotional vulnerability in going through all of that, 174 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: and complicated grief and all the emotions that come with that, 175 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: and also the twists and turns. You think you're through something, 176 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: and then something will happen and then you're back again. 177 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: Like it's it's not like we just gradually moved through grief. 178 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: We can very easily be triggered back again. I can't 179 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: even imagine, like what you've gone through. But how much 180 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: did you lose financially? 181 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: In total? 182 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 3: I lost three hundred and seventeen thousand dollars, which was 183 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 3: my entire career supernuation and some savings and then some 184 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 3: shares that I vested through my you know, through my 185 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 3: career in tech marketing. 186 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: How have you rebuilt yourself emotionally from here and financially? 187 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: I guess there's two questions the loading you up, Let's 188 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 1: go with the emotional side fights. 189 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 2: Like how have you moved from on from this? 190 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 3: Like, yeah, so I'm not going to lie. It was 191 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 3: really hard. It's seven years now. So one of the 192 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 3: beautiful things about life is time does heal well wounds. 193 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 2: I think, and. 194 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 3: Sometimes it just takes time to look back on a 195 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 3: situation with perspective and grace and you know, but the 196 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 3: first few years I was so hard, you know, in 197 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 3: sort of one part of my brain, I had this 198 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 3: really huge job and I couldn't lose it. So going 199 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 3: to work every day and working fourteen sixteen hour days 200 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 3: was such a blessing. 201 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 2: Like how did you do that? And you're like it 202 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 2: was a blessing. I'm like, oh my god, it was 203 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: a blessing. 204 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: Because trade at work, there was that in your head. 205 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: I guess it was escaping. 206 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 3: It was escaping, it was compartmentalizing. When I was at work, 207 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 3: I was running a big team. I was, you know, 208 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 3: delivering campaigns. I was delivering my KPIs. It was busy 209 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 3: and it was full on. So I didn't have a 210 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 3: lot of time to sit in naval gaze and really 211 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 3: be concerned about what was happening because I was just 212 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: so scared of losing my job, to be honest, because 213 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 3: I just had to keep performing. 214 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 2: So that was a blessing. 215 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 3: I have a beautiful daughter who you know, was quite 216 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 3: young at the time, six and a half seven years old, 217 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 3: and I made a decision very early on that there 218 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 3: would be no tears at the dinner table, so we 219 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 3: didn't discuss this at home. I didn't want to worry her. 220 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 3: I knew that I had to keep going, and you know, 221 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 3: having someone else in your life that's a bigger than you, 222 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 3: that needs you, helps you get out of bed every day. 223 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: So I'm so blessed that I had her. 224 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 3: You know, I had to make her lunch every day, 225 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 3: get her to school, get her to activities. So that 226 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 3: was another thing that was really helpful. And then I 227 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 3: would just cry at nighttime, basically, and I got a 228 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 3: lot of therapy, and I pulled my world in quite small. 229 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 3: I didn't trust anybody. There weren't many people that knew 230 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 3: what had happened very early on, because I think it 231 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 3: was just so overwhelming for me. I was embarrassed, I 232 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 3: was ashamed. I couldn't believe that this had happened to me. 233 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 3: I didn't know if I was going to get my 234 00:11:58,600 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 3: money back, I didn't know. 235 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 2: What was going on. Happened. 236 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 3: No one would talk to me about who Hamish really was, 237 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 3: and so I pulled my world in pretty small, got 238 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 3: a lot of therapy. I ended up on antidepressants on 239 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 3: the advice of my psychologist and my GP, because you know, 240 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 3: crying for a few days or a few weeks is okay. 241 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 3: But I had been crying every day for four months, 242 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 3: and you know, someone had to say to me, that's 243 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 3: not okay, that's not normal, it's not sustainable. So that 244 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 3: was something I did do for a period of time 245 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 3: that helped me out of that. I love exercising. That 246 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 3: such a solace for me. You know, they were just 247 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 3: the basic things. I concentrated on my sleep because I 248 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 3: knew that without sleep, I'm not a very great human. 249 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 2: Sleep is a form of medicine, it is. 250 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 3: And so like you know, some people self care and 251 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 3: journal for three hours in the morning into yoga and 252 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 3: have their beautiful cacal ceremonies, which I don't have the 253 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 3: lottery of doing because I'm a single mum and working 254 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 3: full time. But for me, my self care was going 255 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 3: to bed early and saying no to the invitation or 256 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 3: whatever it might be. So I think there was a 257 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 3: bunch of things that I did to get through emotionally, 258 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 3: and then just with time and with support and with 259 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 3: the right structures around me, I've just you know, I've 260 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 3: built myself up. And then of course during the podcast 261 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 3: with The Australian and Greg Barrup was incredibly healing journey 262 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 3: for me because I found out all the things I 263 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 3: needed to know to put the puzzle together in my 264 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 3: mind in the correct way. That helped me cope with 265 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 3: with what had actually happened. 266 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 2: Wow, that was a very long end. 267 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: No, it was, but like it is full of so 268 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: many nuggets of gold and so much wonderful advice. You know, 269 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: whether you're going through just a simple breakup, or whether 270 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 1: you're going through a financial loss or you know, a 271 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: aning type of loss. You know, I think there's so 272 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: much in that, and you know, I can relate for 273 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: all you're saying about, you know, needing to get professional help, 274 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: you know, needing to go to get on medication, needing 275 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 1: to go to bed early, prioritizing sleep, and bringing your 276 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: circle in tight, you know, really retreating and keeping the 277 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: people who are important to you close to you because 278 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: they're a form of oxygen to help keep you going. 279 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: Can we move on to the financial part of your journey. 280 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot of money to lose. I 281 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: mean that's a significant percentage I imagine of your wealth. 282 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 2: It was everything, like let's call it one hundred percent. Yeah, okay, 283 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 2: all right. How have you recovered? 284 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: I mean we're seven years on now, Like, how have 285 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: you managed to find the energy to get back on 286 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: your feet again? What have you done and what has 287 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: helped the most in your recovery? And have you got 288 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: any of this money back? 289 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 3: None of the money has come back. None of the 290 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 3: victims have received any money back. According to the police 291 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 3: in the case, in the investigation that was done, there 292 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 3: is no money anywhere. 293 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 2: So that's that. 294 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 3: And I guess accepting that and focusing my energy on 295 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 3: myself and my own financial recovery has been key for me. 296 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 3: So very early on, I went found to find itcial advisor, 297 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 3: and that was such a hard thing for me to do, 298 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 3: to trust someone else with money. And you know, I 299 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 3: guess it's not lost on me that I had a 300 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 3: really good job and I've always worked. 301 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: And you're a hard worker, I know, and you know 302 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 2: I love work. I love what I do. 303 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 3: And but for me, holding onto job even through pregnancy 304 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 3: and babies and all of that stuff is just so 305 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 3: important for me because it allowed me, you know, even 306 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 3: with the financial flat And then I experienced st affter Haymi. 307 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 3: She gave me choices, and choices are important for everyone, 308 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 3: but they're especially important for women, I think. And so 309 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 3: I had a job and what I did was I 310 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 3: I was recommended three financial advisors. I researched all of them, 311 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 3: I met all three of them. I did reference texts 312 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 3: on all of them. I went deep on you. 313 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: I went deep, can so should? I mean, I think 314 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: you know everyone should be doing? 315 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, register sure, they had their AFSL, a strong financial 316 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 3: services license. What they were able to advise me on. 317 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 3: I did all the things that I should have done 318 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 3: previously with Amish, and I met the most wonderful woman 319 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 3: and she sat with me and she asked me all 320 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 3: the right questions. She was so compassionate, she was so empathetic, 321 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 3: and I just cried a lot, and she said, you're 322 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 3: going to be okay. We're going to put a plan 323 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 3: in place. You you know, it's not a secret that 324 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 3: you're not going to retire with as much superannuation and 325 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 3: wealth as you thought you would based on losing your 326 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 3: twenty year career savings. But we're going to do some 327 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 3: other things and if you follow the plan, you're going 328 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 3: to be fine. I'm very disciplined, So I did what 329 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 3: she said. I put one hundred percent of my trust 330 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 3: into her, and she's still my financial planner today. We 331 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 3: still work on strategies to build my wealth, manage my budget, 332 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 3: manage my life, and you know that that's been a 333 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 3: one of full support for me. I have a pretty 334 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 3: contained life. I spend my money on experiences in travel. 335 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 3: I don't you know, I don't live in a big place. 336 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 3: I you know, I have a fully paid off car. 337 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 3: I don't have any debt other than my you know 338 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 3: where I live and you know, so things are pretty 339 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 3: simple for me and I love to travel and that's 340 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 3: what that's what I try and do. So everything's planned, 341 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 3: everything's disciplined, and over time it's you know, I have 342 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 3: got back on my feet and I have found the 343 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 3: ways to you know, have an incredible life. 344 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm so grateful for that. 345 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: Knowing you personally and we have a few mutual friends, 346 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: I have no doubt you will make back that money 347 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: because you're such a hard worker. You see great opportunities, 348 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: and you're incredibly intelligent. So I feel like you've got 349 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: a great financial plan behind you and she's going to 350 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: get you the best place she can. I don't underestimate 351 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: what you can actually do to leap from and see 352 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: your expectations. 353 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 2: So definitely manifesting that for myself, that's what I like that. 354 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, miracles happen as well. Are you in 355 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: contact with any of the victims still, because there's a 356 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 1: long list of victims. 357 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 2: There's a long list of victims. 358 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 3: I met the majority of them through the case in Australia, 359 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 3: So the case that where he was prosecuted in Australia 360 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 3: fifteen victims, seven point six six million dollars, but we 361 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 3: do know globally it's closer to seventy eighty one hundred 362 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 3: million dollars. I did meet a lot of the victims 363 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 3: through that process, which and also through the podcast. They 364 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 3: are the Samish, So that was an incredible opportunity for healing, 365 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 3: I think for all of us, because when you meet 366 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 3: other people and you realize that you're not alone in 367 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 3: any situation in life that has flattened you, that is 368 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 3: a blessing because you know, feeling alone in that grief 369 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 3: and that shame was horrible. And then when I met 370 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: some of the other victims and became friends with them, 371 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 3: shared stories and heard really the extent of his criminal past, 372 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 3: that made me feel I don't know, it just gave 373 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 3: me a lot of comfort. So yeah, I am still 374 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 3: in contact with a bunch of them. They're all at 375 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 3: different stages in their journeys, and that's what it is. 376 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: Now you've just written your first book. I want to 377 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: hear about what inspired you to actually write this book 378 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: up everything you've gone through. 379 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, so the inspiration behind the book came. I've done 380 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 3: a lot of talking about what happened with Hamish and 381 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 3: through the podcast, through media interviews, and what I've realized 382 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 3: is that it's very hard to explain the insidious nature 383 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 3: of intimate fraud in a two minute interview or in 384 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,719 Speaker 3: fact even a twenty minute podcast. You know, there's so 385 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 3: much that happens, and there's so much detail, and there's 386 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 3: so much coercion that happened in the reliefationship that I 387 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 3: needed seventy five thousand words to explain that. And the 388 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 3: other thing about the book is it's broken into three parts, 389 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 3: so this before, during, and after Hamish. So a lot 390 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 3: of people know what happened during the Hamish era. Yeah, 391 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 3: you know, that's been well recorded. But what I really 392 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 3: wanted to explain was my life before I met Hamish, 393 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 3: and a whole bunch of things that happened to me 394 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 3: in my life before Hamish, which I believe set me 395 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 3: up in a way that gave me a level of 396 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 3: resilience to weather the storm when Hamish hit. So I 397 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 3: go into detail about that. So, my father died when 398 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 3: I was young, when I was about twenty six, of Lakemia. 399 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 3: Very suddenly, my mum got breast cancer and my marriage 400 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 3: broke down. My best friend's husband died, I had a miscarriage. 401 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 2: You know, there was a lot. A lot has happened. 402 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot has happened before I even came across 403 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 3: Hamish in my forties. And then I also wanted to 404 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 3: show that no matter what happened, you don't have to 405 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 3: be financially flattened by a man to go through a 406 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 3: really tough time. And I wanted to show that rebuilding 407 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,719 Speaker 3: a life is possible and there is hope and with 408 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 3: time and the right support structures and the right mindset 409 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 3: and things like that, that you can, you know, life 410 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 3: can be great afterwards. And I think, you know, grief 411 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 3: and sadness can also coexist with joy and empowerment and 412 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 3: things like that. And I wanted to explain that because 413 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 3: after the podcast, it kind of the story went away 414 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 3: and a lot of people say, oh, well, then what 415 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,360 Speaker 3: happened and did you get the money back? And how 416 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 3: did you rebuild? And there's a lot of those questions. 417 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 3: So I wanted to explain in detail the full story 418 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 3: that couldn't be grabbed in a two minute interview with 419 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 3: a you know, a salacious headline like you know, vulnerable divorce, 420 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 3: a Fuld's victim to a love rat. You know, like 421 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 3: all the clickbaity stuff that's out there, which makes for interesting, 422 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 3: you know story, but. 423 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: It's only touching the surface of what really has gone 424 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: on it and doesn't put it in context, and it doesn't educate. 425 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 3: And you hear those stories, isn't like we were saying 426 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 3: at the beginning. You hear those sort of those headlining 427 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 3: clickbaity things and you go that that's not me, that 428 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 3: would never happen to me. But you read a story 429 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 3: of more detail and it helps educate people that it 430 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 3: really can happen to anyone. 431 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: Did you find that as you were writing it was 432 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: healing your heart? 433 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, in a way that the stuff about Hamish I 434 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 3: feel so fine with now. You know, I've done a 435 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 3: lot of media. There's been a lot of talk about it. 436 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 3: The podcast, of course. I think the parts that were 437 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 3: the most healing and the most cathartic were talking about 438 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 3: all of the things that happened in my life before 439 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 3: Hamish even came on the scene, which I probably, if 440 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 3: I'm really honest, haven't done as much work on personally, 441 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 3: and so to go through those were really sort of 442 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 3: deep emotional reflections and you know, going through my journals 443 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 3: of when I lived in India and you know, really 444 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 3: delving deep into that time in my life when I 445 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 3: was experience it's in kind of you know, grief of 446 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 3: a different kind. And then at the other end of 447 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 3: the book, really reflecting on, you know, just how how 448 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 3: far I've come and feeling really proud of the journey 449 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 3: that I've been on and actually, you know, really having 450 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 3: to think about what were the things that I did, 451 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 3: because I think when you're in it, you're just getting through. 452 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 2: Each day survival. 453 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,239 Speaker 3: It's survival. It's every moment. It's every day. It's like 454 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 3: getting out of better, making a cup of day. Okay, 455 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,479 Speaker 3: I've done that. Now I've got to pack the lunches, 456 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 3: do that, get on the bus and go to work. 457 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 3: It is literally moment by moment. But then looking back, 458 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 3: I think, oh, wow, you know I got I made it. 459 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 2: You know I made it through. I'm okay, like life 460 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 2: is okay. 461 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: When you were going through the writing stage, did you 462 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: discover new things about him? Were there any more like 463 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 1: dirty surprises? 464 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 2: You had everything. 465 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 3: I think a lot of it had already been discovered 466 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 3: through the court process. I mean, I think the thing is, 467 00:23:54,359 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 3: nothing surprises me about the story or homish or you know, 468 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,239 Speaker 3: the extent of his lies, the people he has you know, 469 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 3: taken money from. It does feel like, you know, at 470 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 3: the time, it felt like every other day something new 471 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 3: was coming up. In writing the book seven years on, 472 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 3: every now and again, a piece of information pops up 473 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 3: that I think, wow, okay, you know, or someone will 474 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 3: reach out to me and say, oh, I went to 475 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 3: school with him, or you know. But to be honest, 476 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 3: the stories are all the same. They're just lies and 477 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 3: fanciful incarnations of what never happened. 478 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: So wow, what would you say is that was the 479 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 1: most challenging part. Then when it came to sitting down 480 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: and writing this book, what was the hardest I guess 481 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: block or part to sort of push through growth? 482 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 2: Right, Probably a bit of way over. 483 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was earlier on in my life, 484 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 3: to be honest, talking about the death of my father 485 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 3: and how my parents' marriage. You know, they were married 486 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 3: for thirty two years when dad died, and watching my 487 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 3: mum have to deal with that, that was, you know, 488 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 3: and that pro process. At the time, I was really young. 489 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 3: It was twenty six, twenty seven. I was working for 490 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 3: a hedge fund and I went back to work really quickly. 491 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 3: And I think back then, mental health and you know, 492 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 3: the conversation around these things wasn't as open. I just 493 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 3: got back into work and just started putting my head 494 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 3: down and my bum up and trying to push through, 495 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,719 Speaker 3: just push through and get on with life. And I 496 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 3: don't think you know, and I think this is true 497 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 3: for a lot of Western cultures, is that we're not 498 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 3: taught how to grieve. 499 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so true. 500 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 3: And how do you know how to grieve when you 501 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 3: don't see it around you? You just sort of, you know, 502 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 3: it's a bit like the you know, the stiff upper lip, 503 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 3: and we just keep going. 504 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 2: We just push on. 505 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 3: And I hate, I know, but you know, you're at 506 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 3: work and it's not okay just to burst into tears 507 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 3: and have a meltdown when you've got to deliver some 508 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 3: of the campaign or something, you know. So I used 509 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 3: to walk around the city back in those days, and 510 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 3: I just have tears streaming down my face and I'd 511 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 3: have my sunglasses on, and I think, where do all 512 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 3: the people who are grieving go during the day, you know, 513 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 3: why aren't they grieving rooms? 514 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 2: Why aren't their places you can go? And I didn't. 515 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 3: I didn't have a therapist at that time, probably couldn't 516 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 3: afford it. You know, I was a lot younger. I 517 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 3: didn't really understand the need to piece everything together and 518 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 3: really support myself in that way. So going back to 519 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 3: that time and thinking about how I dealt with that, 520 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 3: and well, how I didn't deal with it, and how 521 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 3: those emotions just you know, they catch up with you 522 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 3: at some point, and I think this was the moment 523 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 3: where they caught up with me. So writing those chapters 524 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 3: and then rereading them, and you know, I couldn't. There 525 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 3: are some chapters in the book that I can't read 526 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 3: without crying, you know, because it brings back so many memories. 527 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 2: So for me, that was the hardest thing. 528 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 3: But what it does, I think is provide readers with 529 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,959 Speaker 3: real insight into who I am as a person and 530 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 3: what I've been through and why I was able to 531 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 3: weather the storm. I think having a co author as 532 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 3: well is an incredible privilege. Summer Land, who wrote the 533 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 3: book with me. You know, there's this beautiful saying is 534 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 3: that you can't read the label when you're inside the jar. 535 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 3: And she saw things in me and things that i'd 536 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 3: been through that I probably would have just brushed over 537 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 3: and said, you know, they're not that important whatever, you know, 538 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 3: and she go, hey, on, how talk me through that? 539 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 3: How are you feeling what was happening? An next minut 540 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 3: would be a chapter, Wow, and an incredible chapter. And 541 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 3: I think that was a really surprising part of writing 542 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 3: the book as well. 543 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 2: Do you feel a sense of closure now? Yeah, I do. 544 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 3: I mean, this experience will be a part of me 545 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 3: for the rest of my life. It's not something you 546 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 3: just get over. It's not something you leave behind. It's 547 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 3: a part of me. For me, it's been really interesting 548 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 3: that this has fueled something inside me that is making 549 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 3: me come and talk to people like you, like I 550 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 3: want everyone to be fully aware and educated on these things. 551 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 3: And what I'd say is you don't have to be 552 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 3: swindled by a comment to be financially vulnerable. You know, 553 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 3: you can have a serious illness, you can be financially 554 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 3: vulnerable through divorce or death. And what this has shown 555 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 3: me is that we have to take a lot more 556 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 3: agency over our finances, especially as women, because you know, 557 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,360 Speaker 3: it's our future, it's our security. It gives us choices, 558 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 3: and you know, there is closure in the sense of 559 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 3: this happened and we're moving on and we're rebuilding and 560 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 3: we've got a good life now, but you know, a 561 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 3: real sort of fuel to continue talking about it, to 562 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 3: educate people and help people be more financially resilient. 563 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: I suppose what are you hoping that the readers will 564 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,479 Speaker 1: gain from reading your story. 565 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 3: I'm hoping that they will, you know, really understand that 566 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 3: this can happen to anyone. I'm hoping that they can 567 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 3: see some of the signs that I didn't see, and, 568 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 3: if not in their own lives, in people close to them, 569 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 3: because sometimes the people close to you can see what's 570 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 3: happening that you can't. So opening up a conversation around that, 571 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 3: and I think regardless of you know, financial trauma or 572 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 3: any type of thing that someone goes through, I really 573 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 3: want people to feel like there's hope, like there is 574 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 3: there is a life after, and it can be great 575 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 3: life after and I'm hoping that I can just act 576 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 3: as that beacon of hope for anyone going through a 577 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 3: challenging time. 578 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: Absolutely, now Hamish was about to call him, Bax is 579 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: going to be released and listen two. 580 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 2: Years about two years? Yeah, twenty twenty six. How do 581 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 2: you feel about that? And if you. 582 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: Were to see him, what would you say to him? 583 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 3: I feel like no sentence would have been long enough 584 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 3: to you know, take away the pain that he's caused 585 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 3: so many people. But the law is the law, so 586 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 3: he'll be released potentially on parole in July twenty twenty six. Like, 587 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 3: if I'm really honest, I try not to give it 588 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 3: too much thought. I've just I want to spend my 589 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 3: energy on me and making my life better. And you 590 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 3: know his surf to a sentence, We hope that you 591 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 3: know there's some lessons being learned. But again, I just 592 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,239 Speaker 3: I really try and focus on me and what my 593 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 3: life is going to look like moving forward, and I 594 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 3: feel like that's the best use of my energy. 595 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 2: I completely agree. 596 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: Well, your book The Last Victim, when does it hit 597 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: the bookshelves. 598 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 3: It's hit the bookshelves on the first of May, and 599 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 3: it's available in all good bookstores online, there's an audio 600 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 3: version and yeah, well. 601 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: I cannot wait to start reading your book. And I 602 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: think this is so important for everyone. You know, people 603 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,239 Speaker 1: go to a self protection mode where they think, oh, 604 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: that wouldn't happen to me, But it's that's the way 605 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: that they think until it actually happens to them. And 606 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: it is so important to be aware of all the 607 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: signs the warnings, listen to your gut, as you said, 608 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: having those open conversations with people that you know and 609 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: trust about what's going on, so that they can potentially 610 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: shed some light and I'll give you an different opinion, 611 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: or even give you a resource to go and check 612 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: someone out, like on the ACID register and checking their 613 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: license details and asking additional questions and gauging someone's feedback 614 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: or their answers when they're asked these probing questions, which 615 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: is so incredibly important. 616 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 3: I do have a resource list on my website if 617 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 3: people want to go there and download it, and it's 618 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 3: a whole bunch of kind of ideas and websites to 619 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 3: go to to just double check everything if you're unsure. 620 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 3: So there's some really good ideas in there so you 621 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 3: don't have to do research yourself. 622 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: Well, Tracy, thank you so much, and I really hope 623 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: everyone takes some time to go and read your book 624 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: and take in this wise wisdom and share the wisdom 625 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: as well well other people through these conversations, so that 626 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: we can create a strong awareness and knowledge around these 627 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: I guess creatures and. 628 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 2: Characters and parasites. 629 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: That's all say, so that we protect ourselves and that 630 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: this does not ever happen again. Well, look, thank you 631 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: so much. Last Victim is on the bookshelves shortly, and 632 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: if you need any details from Tracy, please head to 633 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: her website those free resources. 634 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 2: Tracy, thank you so much for coming. 635 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: Thanks Canna, thank you now, Thank you everyone for listening 636 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: to Sugar Mamma's fireplay. Until next Monday morning, stay motivated, empowered, 637 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: and never stop seeking new ways to achieve or in 638 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: Tracy's face. 639 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 2: Catch up on her and your financial goals and dreams. 640 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 2: This is Sugar Mama's fare