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Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gatigel

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Speaker 1: people of the Eur Nation. Hello and welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Real Story. Joe hold around with you, and this week

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Speaker 1: it's armageddon. It is the political apocalypse. The Coalition, the

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Speaker 1: National Party and the Liberal Party as well as the

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Speaker 1: Greens have all basically collapsed. They have all imploded and

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Speaker 1: they are all pretty much hell bent on destroying themselves.

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Speaker 1: And we are going to get into why and how

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Speaker 1: all of that is happening very shortly. We're going to

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Speaker 1: speak to a former Green's MP is going to tell

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Speaker 1: us exactly what happens inside Australia's most secretive political party.

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Speaker 1: They do not reveal to anybody what really happens inside

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Speaker 1: the party, but we're going to reveal it to you.

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Speaker 1: Don't you worry about that? And also what exactly is

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Speaker 1: going on with the coalition and why it's about to

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Speaker 1: get so so so much worse. Don't go anywhere. So

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Speaker 1: the biggest story this week has been the absolute self immolation,

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Speaker 1: the complete and utter destruction. We are talking a burn

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Speaker 1: the village, scorched earth policy of the coalition. The coalition

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Speaker 1: is no more, there is no coalition. The National Party

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Speaker 1: has said they will no longer operate in coalition with

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Speaker 1: the Liberal Party. What does this all mean, Well, it

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Speaker 1: means for the time being they will have two different

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Speaker 1: shadow front benches. It means that you will have, for example,

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Speaker 1: a shadow Treasurer on the Liberal side competing not just

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Speaker 1: with the actual Treasurer Jim Charmers, but with another shadow

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Speaker 1: Treasurer from the NATS, or technically the Treasury spokesman, because

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Speaker 1: the Liberal Party will be the official opposition and the

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Speaker 1: NATS will basically just be a large minor party, kind

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Speaker 1: of like the Greens, but with more than one MP

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Speaker 1: in the Lower House. We'll have more on that later

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Speaker 1: on in the show. And this is an extraordinary development.

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Speaker 1: It's not the first time that the NATS and the

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Speaker 1: Libs have split, but it is probably the most impactful.

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Speaker 1: They've done it at various states levels over the past

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Speaker 1: few years, but this is probably the biggest bust up

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Speaker 1: we've seen in the modern era at a federal level.

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Speaker 1: I mean, for one thing, what happens with the Liberal

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Speaker 1: National Party in Queensland. They actually combined to form the LNP,

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Speaker 1: the NATS and the Liberal Party because of the weird

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Speaker 1: situation there where Queensland is the only state which had

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Speaker 1: more National MPs than Liberal MPs as an overhang from

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Speaker 1: the Joe years and the good old Gerrymander. Suddenly you

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Speaker 1: have to unpick the LNP and turn it into the

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Speaker 1: L and the n It's like unscrambling an egg. So

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Speaker 1: that is going to cause even more carnage. We saw

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Speaker 1: how much carnage was caused just when Jacinta Price, who

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Speaker 1: was elected as a member of the COLP, the Country

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Speaker 1: Liberal which only exists in the Northern Territory but was

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Speaker 1: actually sitting in the National Party room, but then defected

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Speaker 1: to the Liberal Liberal Party, the actual Liberal Party, to

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Speaker 1: run for the deputy leadership with Angus Taylor, only to

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Speaker 1: suddenly not run for the deputy leadership when it became

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Speaker 1: clear that she or rather Angus wasn't going to win.

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Speaker 1: That caused the Nats and the Libs to basically blow

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Speaker 1: up at each other. So imagine how much more of

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Speaker 1: that is to come times that by twenty when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the seats in and their members in Queensland

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Speaker 1: who now suddenly have to basically pull themselves apart. And

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Speaker 1: then what happens just within the Liberal Party itself because

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Speaker 1: you have Susan Leigh who won the leadership vote twenty

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Speaker 1: nine votes to twenty five. I think it was an

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Speaker 1: incredibly close ballot, and she already is facing promises of retribution.

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Speaker 1: People are saying, oh, there's going to be blood letting,

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Speaker 1: and this is the thing. The blood letting is meant

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Speaker 1: to happen before the leadership ballot. That's why you have

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Speaker 1: the leadership ballot to resolve all the blood letting. But

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Speaker 1: then when you get a candidate that saying, well, now

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Speaker 1: you've won, you're done. But she got a majority of

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Speaker 1: the votes, how could this possibly be? Well, I'll tell you,

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Speaker 1: because it turns out that not everyone who voted for

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Speaker 1: Susan Leigh was actually a member of Parliament. One of

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Speaker 1: the votes she got was from the member, well not

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Speaker 1: the member. That's the whole point for Bradfield. Giselle Capterian.

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Speaker 1: She was being challenged by teal Nicolettel something like that,

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Speaker 1: and it looked like she'd seen off that challenge. It

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Speaker 1: looked like she was going to win, but roll the

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Speaker 1: teal made a mega come back. This is the one

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Speaker 1: who talked thirty two hair dresses. It's amazing. So I'm

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Speaker 1: really glad she's in the parliament. By the way, and

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Speaker 1: so she has now suddenly been put in front. So

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Speaker 1: the Teal is now a handful of votes, like literally

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Speaker 1: a few dozen votes ahead, and has basically won that

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Speaker 1: count with about thirty something votes, right, So there's going

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Speaker 1: to be an automatic recount. But if that recount confirms

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Speaker 1: that in fact Bradfield has been won by the Teals

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Speaker 1: and not by Gizelle, Gizelle's vote disappears from Susan Lee's

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Speaker 1: numbers in the party room. And there's another two senators

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Speaker 1: who voted for her, Linda Reynolds of course, who was

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Speaker 1: embroiled in the Brittaney Higgins scandal, and Holly Hughes, who

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Speaker 1: will no longer be senators after July the first and

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Speaker 1: will be replaced by another Senator who is supportive of

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Speaker 1: Angus Taylor. In fact, that senator was put on the

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Speaker 1: Senate ticket just so that Angus Taylor would have more

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Speaker 1: support in the party room. So as of July the

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Speaker 1: first bit over a month away, suddenly, instead of Susan

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Speaker 1: Lay having the numbers in the party room, Angus Taylor

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Speaker 1: will have the numbers in the party room. He would

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Speaker 1: be ahead twenty seven to twenty six, and that ladies

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Speaker 1: and gentlemen, is not a number that breeds peace love

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Speaker 1: among beans. If you have less than one vote, basically

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Speaker 1: half a vote in it, you find one of those

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Speaker 1: twenty seven and cut them in half, that's a tie.

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Speaker 1: It's as close as it gets. And so Susan Leed's

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Speaker 1: leadership is almost literally on a knife edge already, and

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Speaker 1: she's meant to be the solution. So this is obviously

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Speaker 1: a very very fraught path. And then of course you've

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Speaker 1: got the question of what do you do about all

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Speaker 1: the policy stuff, How do you even put together a

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Speaker 1: coherent Liberal party policy on things like nuclear? And then

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Speaker 1: you have to somehow get the Nats a board as well.

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Speaker 1: So you have a Liberal party there's basically already in itself,

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Speaker 1: a coalition of two sides that absolutely opposed to each

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Speaker 1: other on pretty much just about everything. You've got the

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Speaker 1: sort of wet moderates who are a bit like the Teals.

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Speaker 1: They don't like nuclear, they're pro net zero. Then you've

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Speaker 1: got the Conservatives who do like nuclear and don't even

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Speaker 1: believe in net zero. And then you've got the Nats,

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Speaker 1: who have to move to the right under David Little

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Speaker 1: Proud or he will face yet more challenges from the

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Speaker 1: right of that party, led by Matt Canavan. So if

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Speaker 1: Susan Lay goes more in one direction to try to

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Speaker 1: get back to shore up support among the moderates and

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Speaker 1: to try to have a hope in hell of winning

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Speaker 1: back those till seats, she provokes a civil war within

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Speaker 1: the Liberal Party from the National Right faction and also

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Speaker 1: means that she will not be able to reform a

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Speaker 1: coalition with the Nats, which means that it will be

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Speaker 1: impossible for the Liberal Party to form government not just

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Speaker 1: at the next election, but the one after that. And

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Speaker 1: that is why I have seen your Labor figures people

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Speaker 1: very close to the Prime Minister as well, saying that

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Speaker 1: if Labor can manage this correctly and be sensible, stay

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Speaker 1: in the center, hold the center, don't be stupid, don't

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Speaker 1: veer to the left. We could be looking at a

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Speaker 1: four term government. We could be looking at possibly Albow

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Speaker 1: becoming the longest serving Labor prime minister. I think most

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Speaker 1: people would rather have a peaceful, organized succession plan in place,

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Speaker 1: but we know how well they to go in Australian politics,

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Speaker 1: don't they so? But anyway, so this is the state

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Speaker 1: of play in Australian politics at the moment. You've got

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Speaker 1: Labor Party with a record number of seats, more than

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Speaker 1: double the next biggest party, almost two thirds of the

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Speaker 1: seats in the House of Representatives, and you have its

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Speaker 1: opponents on the right destroying themselves and as we're about

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Speaker 1: to find out, its opponents on the left destroying themselves

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Speaker 1: as well. What a week it's been. So the other

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Speaker 1: big story of the last week or so was the

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Speaker 1: election of Was it an election we don't even know,

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Speaker 1: Maybe they were just divinely appointed by God. But we

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Speaker 1: have a new Greens leader. And this is after the

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Speaker 1: former leader, Adam Banner led the party for years, lost

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Speaker 1: his own seat of Melbourne, along with three out of

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Speaker 1: the four Greens in the House of Reps who were

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Speaker 1: absolutely annihilated. The sole remaining member is the member for Ryan.

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Speaker 1: You don't know who she is. I don't know who

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Speaker 1: she is. Nobody cares who she is. But what is

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Speaker 1: actually going on in the Greens? How did they elect

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Speaker 1: this new leader? It's Larissa Wards from the City of Queens.

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Speaker 1: What happens behind the closed doors of that party? Because

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Speaker 1: of course, when the Labor Party or the Liberal Party

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Speaker 1: elect a new leader, we know what happens. We know

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Speaker 1: who the contenders were, how many votes each of them got.

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Speaker 1: In some cases it actually goes to the members of

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Speaker 1: those parties. But the Greens, we know nothing. It's just

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Speaker 1: a closed shop, much like the internal workings of their

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Speaker 1: hive mind. It's all just emptiness, nothingness and darkness. And

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Speaker 1: so I thought we'd get someone who has an insight

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Speaker 1: into the mysterious, enigmatic inner workings of the Green's political party.

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Speaker 1: He's a former Green's MP himself. He left because he

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Speaker 1: was so frustrated about their processes and saw the direction

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Speaker 1: the party was heading in, and he's very much a

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Speaker 1: friend of the show. Jeremy Buckingham, how are you my friend? Hey, Joe.

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Speaker 2: Great to be with you, mate, Great.

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Speaker 1: To have you and to have you back. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: about what you're up to these days shortly, but firstly

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Speaker 1: I want to just take you back, if it's not

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Speaker 1: too traumatic for you. I don't want to trigger you.

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Speaker 1: But the Greens. You were an upper House Greens MPa

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Speaker 1: in New South Wales for many, many years. How does

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Speaker 1: the party actually go about electing a new leader? Because

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Speaker 1: this is a very nebulous process and we never actually

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Speaker 1: seem to find out who voted for who or what

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Speaker 1: the you know, what the factions are. We know they're

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Speaker 1: a faction in there, but just talk us through the

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Speaker 1: inner workings of that.

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Speaker 2: First of all, well, it is nebulous. I don't even know.

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Speaker 2: I've got a guess it is. It is opaque. It

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Speaker 2: is very unclear to any reasonable person what is going

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Speaker 2: on in the Greens. They do it by what they

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Speaker 2: call consensus, so whatever that means to be suspicious, I know, consensus.

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Speaker 2: But really they just get get together on the phone

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Speaker 2: and just work the numbers over do it beforehand, then

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Speaker 2: have a party room so they don't have to have

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Speaker 2: a vote because they've essentially worked out what the numbers

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Speaker 2: are beforehand because they only have like, you know, eight

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Speaker 2: or nine, ten members, so you know, even they can

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Speaker 2: do that sort of maths and work out who's going

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Speaker 2: to get the numbers. And what we saw with the

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Speaker 2: election of Larisa Waters was she got strong armed into

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Speaker 2: the position because they had two front runners Sarah Hanson Young,

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Speaker 2: which no one nobody liked in the party or Marine

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Speaker 2: for rookie and her type of politics, her super hard

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Speaker 2: left politics had just been smashed by the Electric so

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Speaker 2: they had to frog march someone into the position, and

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Speaker 2: that's Larisa Waters, who's a pretty vanilla candidate.

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Speaker 1: So beige. Sarah Hanson Young I think is the most

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Speaker 1: sensible of the lot. That's not saying a great deal,

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Speaker 1: but she is.

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Speaker 2: She's a cut through politician, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And she's probably the one Green senator who most people

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Speaker 1: will have heard of and would know who she's.

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Speaker 2: She's been there the longest, she's been there for twenty years,

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Speaker 2: they would have heard of her.

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Speaker 1: She gets voted recognition and would get the most votes

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Speaker 1: out of any of the three contenders. Then you've got

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Speaker 1: Marine Feruki, who's probably the most popular among the Green's

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Speaker 1: hard left membership base. But instead of either of those two,

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Speaker 1: you get Larissa Warders, who, like you say, is the

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Speaker 1: most beige possible candidate. I don't think anyone could point

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Speaker 1: to anything she actually in particular stands for or has

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Speaker 1: achieved or has well.

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Speaker 2: From one hundred meters she's away, she's a teal. She's

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Speaker 2: exactly the same demographic, same politics. Really as a Teal.

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Speaker 2: She's inner Brisbane, middle class, professional white Anglo Saxon, and

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Speaker 2: so from one hundred meters away, she's just another one

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Speaker 2: of those Teals. What she really represents is a massive

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Speaker 2: regression for the Greens because for a long time they

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Speaker 2: were really going after those Teal seats, those electorates they

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Speaker 2: tried to win, seats like a macnamara Wentworth, inner city

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Speaker 2: progressive seats, going.

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Speaker 1: After they got on the state seat of Paran and Victoria.

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Speaker 2: The state set of Perial Heartland, Teal heartland. They were

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Speaker 2: going after those seats. They were going after the back

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Speaker 2: then the Chardonnay set when people drank Chardina and the doctors'

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Speaker 2: wives or doctor's husbands, whatever you want to whatever you

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Speaker 2: want to say, but they were going after that. Bob

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Speaker 2: Brown was really targeting those about ten years ago. But

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Speaker 2: Adam Bandt reset the party, set them on a really

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Speaker 2: social they called it social justice, but it was a

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Speaker 2: socialist agenda. People like David Tubridge, Marine Ferouki, the much

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Speaker 2: more hard left branches of the party came to the

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Speaker 2: four in New South Wales and Queensland and those people

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Speaker 2: were sidelined. And now what you see is the Larissa

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Speaker 2: water probably the urging of people like Bob Brown, former

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Speaker 2: leaders like Christine Milne being pushed to the front and

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Speaker 2: she's going to be split apart by the base of

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Speaker 2: her party who want her to part of the electorate.

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Speaker 2: The voters of the Greens will want them to be

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Speaker 2: a conciliatory with Labour, get things done. But their new base,

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Speaker 2: the people that they've brought in over the last ten years,

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Speaker 2: want them to attack Labor, oppose them, and that is

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Speaker 2: just a dead end for the party.

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Speaker 1: And this is something that a number of Labor figures

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Speaker 1: have said to me in recent days. One in fact,

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Speaker 1: sent me a message after a column I wrote on

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Speaker 1: the weekend basically excoriating the Greens for a number of

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Speaker 1: reasons that you said and said, great column. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I've already written it myself, written the exact same thing

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Speaker 1: a few years ago when he was just in a rage,

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Speaker 1: when on an epic rant. And again, so this idea

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Speaker 1: that Labor is somehow Green's light or the Greens a

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Speaker 1: Labor light, is actually a complete falsehood. I know a

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Speaker 1: lot of people on the right think they are just

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Speaker 1: two sides of the same kind, two peas in the

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Speaker 1: pod among the sensible sort of center, the nerve center,

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Speaker 1: the smart people, the people in charge of the Labor Party.

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Speaker 1: They hate the Greens and they hate the Greens for

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Speaker 1: exactly the reason you said, which is that the Greens

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Speaker 1: ticket to survival relies on no progress being made.

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Speaker 2: It relies on labor failing that their catch right, they

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Speaker 2: want the government to fail. Their catch cry that one

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Speaker 2: of the terms that was often used is the worse

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Speaker 2: things get the better. So you don't take a compromise,

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Speaker 2: You don't take a small win on the way to

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Speaker 2: a bigger win and real progress. You want things to

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Speaker 2: absolutely collapse that way, you getmic ruin or ecological disaster,

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Speaker 2: and you can ticket to the revolution. The worst the better.

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Speaker 2: That's what they wanted. It's why they voted against the cprs.

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Speaker 2: It's why they've voted against the housing reforms. It's why

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Speaker 2: that they when the government was putting forward the Safeguard

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Speaker 2: Mechanism for action on climate change, even though it was

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Speaker 2: a massive step forward to cutting national greenhail scas emissions,

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Speaker 2: they didn't want to do it because it took climate

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Speaker 2: change off the agenda. So they wouldn't take an ecological

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Speaker 2: and environmental win because they were taking a political hit,

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Speaker 2: and people saw through it. People in the center went like,

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Speaker 2: if you're in an emergency, do everything you can. Take

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Speaker 2: every mooningful action, bank it and then move on to

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Speaker 2: the next thing. They didn't do that because the Greens

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Speaker 2: were about.

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Speaker 1: They need to perpetuate the emergency, perpetuate the.

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Speaker 2: Crisis, perpetuate the crisis. And that's why you saw when

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Speaker 2: the housing bills were before the Parliament, Max Chandler Mather

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Speaker 2: getting up there. He loved the fact that they were

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Speaker 2: working with the nualition. The coalition, Well, what's happened to that?

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Speaker 2: It's all been atomized because it raised the issue. But

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Speaker 2: out there in society we had people suffering from domestic violence,

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Speaker 2: missing out on housing. We weren't getting the housing we

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Speaker 2: needed built. And he saw it as an electoral success.

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Speaker 2: But the voters are smarter than that. And now he's

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Speaker 2: down looking for a new job, is down at new Start.

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Speaker 1: Despite the historic low unemployment levels, Max Dandlbather has now

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Speaker 1: added one extra individual to them. So this is and

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Speaker 1: again let's I suppose go back to what you mentioned.

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Speaker 1: The Greens started out. They were founded, of course by

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Speaker 1: Bob Brown as part of his sort of movement to

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Speaker 1: save the Franklin River from being damned by tazzy hydro

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Speaker 1: and it was a genuinely environmental movement. And then over

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Speaker 1: the last kind of well can I.

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Speaker 2: Jump in there, Joe. It was an environmental and peace movement, yes,

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Speaker 2: And that was one of the foundational tenants was we'll

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Speaker 2: do politics differently. The bit of politics that are going

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Speaker 2: to differ was that we weren't going to be adversarial.

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Speaker 2: They weren't going to throw muttered at people. They were

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Speaker 2: going to like work constructively to get things done in

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Speaker 2: a collaborative, peaceful way. They were the really two key

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Speaker 2: foundational tenets that Bob championed, like you know.

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Speaker 1: No wars, like nice, peace loving hippies kind of thing exactly.

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Speaker 1: And then they got infiltrated about I would probably say,

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Speaker 1: maybe what a couple of decades ago, and it sort

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Speaker 1: of is escalated. But they were infiltrated by real sort

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Speaker 1: of hard line left wingers. I mean we're talking in

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Speaker 1: some case people who were ex stalinists exactly.

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Speaker 2: They were literally card carrying members of the Communist Party.

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Speaker 2: The war comes down nine to eighty nine, nineteen ninety,

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Speaker 2: we have the end of communism. Socialism collapses around the world.

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Speaker 2: These people go, what's the next big think.

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Speaker 1: Have no cause, we.

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Speaker 2: Have no cause. We'll attach ourselves to this new which

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Speaker 2: is actually like a pretty unique Australian political idea which

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Speaker 2: was enviral. Mental Party, a green party, one of the

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Speaker 2: first green parties in the world. It was coming up.

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Speaker 2: The Democrats were disappearing, the socialists really tried to take

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Speaker 2: a hold of it. But people like Bob and Ian

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Speaker 2: Cohen and these are original ares. Yeah, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: The environmentalists who were there because they were worried about

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Speaker 2: climate change or for me, the Murray Darling Basin or

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Speaker 2: whatever it was. Those people saw it and resisted it

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Speaker 2: for a long time. And it was only about ten

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Speaker 2: years ago. Even Richard di Natali there was a Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there was a faction emerge in New South Wales called

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Speaker 2: Left Renewal and what they were anti capitalist, And I said,

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Speaker 2: this is crazy. How in our modern society when you

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Speaker 2: are you going to go out there and say we

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Speaker 2: want to see like socialism, you know like Alah, North

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Speaker 2: Korea or Cuba or you know Cambodia, Like look at

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Speaker 2: these places as a disaster, how are you going to

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Speaker 2: sell that work?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Where has it worked? And a society that's dominated by

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Speaker 2: free enterprise, innovation, productivity and people doing their own thing

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Speaker 2: with some good social safety nets. They made the jump

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Speaker 2: from social justice to pure socialism and they've run up

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Speaker 2: a dry gully.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. And so firstly, and this is why

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Speaker 1: I want to skewer this idea of consensus. In fact,

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Speaker 1: there are factions within the Greens. There is the moderate

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Speaker 1: kind of sort of more genuine environmental faction that wants

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Speaker 1: to work within the system to get the best possible

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Speaker 1: environmental outcomes. And then you have these hardcore trots who

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Speaker 1: left Renewal as they call themselves, but basically sort of

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Speaker 1: card carrying comedies. I believe Adam Bant was actually a

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Speaker 1: Marxist at Melbourne UNI, which is of course, the more

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Speaker 1: sort of Ivy league the UNI, the more Marxists you're

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Speaker 1: likely to have there. We're all student socialists back in

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Speaker 1: the day, but at least I moved on. But so

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Speaker 1: that they're coming into the party and suddenly they have

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Speaker 1: this much broader, more revolutionary agenda, and Adam Banners obviously

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Speaker 1: spoken about, you know, basically eating out the Labor Party,

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Speaker 1: governing in first coalition with the Labor Party or being

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Speaker 1: a joint opposition as the sort of left rump of

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Speaker 1: the Labor Party. Then gradually eating it out until the

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Speaker 1: Greens become the dominant opposition force and then presumably leap

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Speaker 1: frog into government when the opportunity arrives, arise.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right, and one of the strategies was to

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Speaker 2: go to the more left wing unions and to find

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Speaker 2: those people in those left wing unions and really try

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Speaker 2: and take over some of those left wing unions, in

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Speaker 2: particular in New South Wales. New South Wales was the

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Speaker 2: epicenter of it. It's where the Communist Party was the

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Speaker 2: strongest in Australia and it's where those people then went

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Speaker 2: and said, okay, our strategy is we're going to take

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Speaker 2: over some unions, affiliate those unions with us and basically

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Speaker 2: adopt the policy the form of the Labor Party and

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Speaker 2: go after the Labor Party. And I always thought it

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Speaker 2: was utter madness. I was going, the Labor Party is

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Speaker 2: the Union movement. The Union movement is the Labor Party.

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Speaker 2: We're never going to come between those two. And it's

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Speaker 2: just a cynical exercise that'll be smashed back in your

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Speaker 2: face if you do it. And that's exactly what happened.

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Speaker 2: Max Chandler. Madther did it, stood up, stood up with

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Speaker 2: the CFM. You were in Queensland and stood in front

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Speaker 2: of a sign that called Albow a Nazi, and so

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of reasonable people looked at that

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Speaker 2: and went, hey, that's not very peaceful language. We know

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Speaker 2: Albow's not a Nazi. We know Albo's had some pretty

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Speaker 2: left wing views in his time, but he's trying to

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Speaker 2: govern for all Australia. He's trying to get the Labor

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Speaker 2: Party into power so he can do good things. And

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Speaker 2: you're out there when there's clearly something gone wrong with

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Speaker 2: the CFMI, you using that as a political opportunity to

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Speaker 2: kick Albo right in the jats crackers when he doesn't

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Speaker 2: need it. And it was just they really did treat

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Speaker 2: people like they were stupid. They were super silious, condescending,

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Speaker 2: we know best, and people saw right through it, and

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Speaker 2: hence they got wiped out in the Lower House, massive

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Speaker 2: setback for them, put them back twenty years, and even

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Speaker 2: in the Senate they've had big swings against them, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of other small micro parties both from the

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Speaker 2: sort of senter right and sent to left emerging that

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Speaker 2: are going to challenge them going forward.

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Speaker 1: That's right, and there's other things going on in the

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Speaker 1: party that's even more sort of insular and crazy, like

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Speaker 1: the Victorian Greens are tearing themselves apart over trans issues,

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Speaker 1: which you wouldn't have thought was high on the agenda

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Speaker 1: of a party that says that climate changes going to

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Speaker 1: destroy it.

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Speaker 2: Well, not even allowed to have the conversation. And that's

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Speaker 2: what people don't like. If you just if a political

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Speaker 2: party doesn't even allow itself to have ideas, like, you're

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Speaker 2: clearly going to have group think. And what they did

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Speaker 2: is they frog marched all the feminists and especially the

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Speaker 2: lesbian feminists out of the party. And those people have

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Speaker 2: been around for a long time fighting for women's issues.

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Speaker 2: Now they had a different view on the trans issue.

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Speaker 2: But they weren't even allowed to say it. It's like,

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Speaker 2: these are things And it goes back to this this

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Speaker 2: socialist tendency, which is there's the correct way of seeing things,

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Speaker 2: and if you don't see it like that, then you're

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Speaker 2: out in the rice paddies planning rice, you know, getting you.

432
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: Know, recorrect re educated.

433
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the correct thinking. This is incorrect thinking, and

434
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 2: you spend six years planning rice for your sins.

435
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 1: And again it sounds hysterical even to be having this conversation.

436
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: But this is actually happening, like this is the way

437
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: that these people think that these people are incubated in

438
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: socialist thinking, in Marxist ideology, and they are now seeing

439
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 1: to apply. The other interesting thing, of course, is that

440
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: the Greens talk about transparency or accountability or whatever. There

441
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: is zero transparency in any of their party mechanisms, their

442
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: national conference, national conferences behind closed doors, no one, nothing

443
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 1: is publicly revealed about what happens. And again, even with

444
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: the election of a leader who has the power to

445
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: basically kill off legislation in the Australian Parliament, they pretend

446
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: that in fact there was this concent answers, Oh yes,

447
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 1: we all, despite their clearly being three contenders, each of

448
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: whom wanted to be leader. Apparently, miraculously, every single member

449
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: of the Greens party room are reached an agreed position

450
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: that it would be Larissa Waters, which is patently obvious.

451
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 2: Half the party room wanted Marine, half the party room

452
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: wanted Sarah Hanson Young. They realized that if either of

453
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 2: those got it, they'll go to war, so they went, Okay,

454
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 2: the compromise is Larissa Waters. But how ridiculous that someone

455
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 2: in Australian politics with that outrageous amount of power over legislation.

456
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 2: The party doesn't even say who the candidates are. They

457
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 2: don't even they're not even allowed to say to their

458
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 2: party members what I stand for the direction I'm going.

459
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 2: It's just this black box in they go, they spit

460
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 2: out Larusa Warters and like she's on borrow time. Because

461
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 2: the activist base that they've brought in, this hardcore socialist

462
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 2: activist base literally out of like the Victorian Socialists and

463
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 2: the Socialist Alliance, they are going to turn on her

464
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: unless she does the performative dance that they expect in

465
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 2: terms of issues like Israel and Gaza, blocking legislation, the

466
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 2: environmental planning legislation that the Labor's going to put forward,

467
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 2: you know, unless they make unreasonable I think claims in

468
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 2: that area and block it, then she'll be for the

469
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 2: block as well and will end up with Marine Ferruki.

470
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, get taken out the back. And this is the

471
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: other thing. So you've got a membership as you say

472
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: that overwhelmingly wants a more even more extreme, more left

473
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: wing figure as leader. I eat Marine Ferruki. And yet

474
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: unlike other parties, and you know, it was a mistake

475
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: I think that Labor made, and it will probably end

476
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 1: up undoing because they end up having a lot of

477
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: consensus leadership battles as well because they don't want it

478
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: to send it out. But at least Labor has on

479
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: its books that the membership has a role of fifty

480
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: percent waiting in deciding her the next life is. The

481
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: Greens actually recently are denied the membership even though sixty

482
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: two percent of the membership actually said yes, we want

483
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: we want to be able to say who the leader

484
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: is and voting the leader of via membership, because that

485
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 1: didn't reach the two thirds threshold that the Greens have

486
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: imposed on the membership, So not fifty fifty one percent

487
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: fifty percent plus one, which is the traditional understanding of

488
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: a majority of a majority. Yeah, it's saying, oh, I know,

489
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: so even though more than sixty percent of you want

490
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,959
Speaker 1: to say, you're not going to get it. And as

491
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: a result. The other fun thing is that the Greeds

492
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: talk about institutional racism being everywhere because there's you know,

493
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: people just don't have enough diversity in the ranks, and

494
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 1: the one chance they get to elect a woman of

495
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: color to their leader, they say, I no, we better

496
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: kill that off.

497
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: Well, because they saw what happened to the Greens Party

498
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: in the UK and in Germany where they went down

499
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: this route of the diversity politics. They promoted people from

500
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 2: Muslim backgrounds, you know, people of car to the leadership.

501
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: But their voter base, their voter base is white and

502
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: middle classes and it's keels and they all ended up

503
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: voting for the Teals or for other parties parties. Well,

504
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 2: that's exactly people who weren't going after landlords for one.

505
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 2: Like the key indicator of a Greens voter is more affluent,

506
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 2: you know, probably a tertiary education and atheist, that's what

507
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 2: they are. And yet they've gone after Muslim working class

508
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: voters who you know, and so they've flattened their support out.

509
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 2: They used to get a lot of support in smaller

510
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 2: areas with a smaller demographic. They've flattened it right out

511
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: and they've got essentially their instructural decline.

512
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: There you go. It's tough being up a middle class socialist.

513
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: Fortunately you have now founded the Legalized Cannabis Party, which

514
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: did make some great progress of this election, got a

515
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: really strong vote and is i know, working closer with

516
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,479
Speaker 1: the Labor Party, so that hopefully we can get rid

517
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: of all the crazy extremes in politics and get back

518
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: some of them more laid back hippies.

519
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 2: Well, we did have it. We had a great election.

520
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: We've had about seven hundred and fifty thousand votes around

521
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: the country and the Senate, so three quarters of a

522
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 2: million people for our second hit out where we're polling

523
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 2: just under four percent in the Senate. There was a

524
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,959
Speaker 2: lot of competition. We didn't have a lot of money,

525
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 2: but that's a good result that puts us in a

526
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: position where we can build going forward. We built some

527
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: good relationships with the Labor Party going forward, and we

528
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: worked out where our vote is, who our voters are,

529
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 2: and they're working class, their regional rule. They're actually from

530
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 2: a more conservative back people there. That's exactly right, and

531
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 2: what they're really looking for is a party that's going

532
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 2: to put forward good ideas around justice, freedom, reform, and

533
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: work collaboratively in the Upper House on basically on our values,

534
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 2: which are peace, freedom, liberty, and affair go. And people

535
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: want that, and I think there's going to be I

536
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: think a reassessment after this federal election of who we

537
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 2: actually are. People think that the Legalized Cannabis Party is

538
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: this hardcore left wing party, and we're not our base

539
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: and our membership actually are pretty center left and.

540
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: Actually laid back party.

541
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 2: We're laid back. We're the relaxed party and we want

542
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 2: to work with people on getting outcomes. And that's what

543
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 2: our members are doing everywhere. We're taking some wins. We're

544
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: not getting in the way of other people's agendas either

545
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 2: just for the sake of it, just to grandstand, just

546
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 2: to get yourself in the paper. And that's what the

547
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: Greens have done again and again and again. They've been

548
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: sanded in the Gears to real change, and we want

549
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: to talk about sort of practical environmentalism and alternative new

550
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: industries like hemp, deal with bioplastics, create a new, big

551
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 2: medicinal cannabis industry in the country. Because some of the

552
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: big environmental issues that the Greens have champion like climate change,

553
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 2: really come off the boil. We're essentially going to be

554
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: at net zero in the next ten years when the

555
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: last three or four power stations in this country closed.

556
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: So what's next where we need to reform agriculture, sustainable

557
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: ag clean up our waters, those things, But the Greens

558
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: don't want to talk about that. Because it always has

559
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 2: to be a disaster so that they can sweep to

560
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 2: power on the panic that they create.

561
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: Exactly when Australia wins, they lose. Jeremy Buckingham, founder of

562
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: Legalized Cannabis and former Green's MP, thank you so much

563
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: for joining us on the Real Story mate.

564
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: Thanks Joe, what is a pleasure?

565
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: Well, that is all we have time for this week.

566
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: Hopefully there'll be another apocalypse in a few days which

567
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: we can bring to you next week. In the meantime,

568
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: leave us a review or a rating, or drop me

569
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: a line the Real Story at novapodcast dot com dot au,

570
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: or we can slide into my dms on the gram

571
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: at Joe Underscore Hildebrand's My Hand, or you can see

572
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: my columns and all the news court master heads every

573
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: Saturday and Monday. And if you see me in the street,

574
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: just come up and say hi, So, how you going?

575
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: Love your work? Thanks for saving the country. I get

576
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: it all the time, it'd be nice to hear it

577
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:58,719
Speaker 1: from you. See you then,