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Speaker 1: So you may not know this about me, but I

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Speaker 1: am a sober person.

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Speaker 2: I understand that it might be the first time you're

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Speaker 2: listening to the show. But yeah, I don't drink, I

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Speaker 2: don't use. There's many reasons why. It was pretty simple.

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Speaker 2: I was going to die and the avoidant behavior that

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Speaker 2: I was participating in rather than actually dealing with my

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Speaker 2: shit was starting to get way too much. Another one

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Speaker 2: of the things that I was doing was making really

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Speaker 2: terrible choices while I was doing all this drinking and

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Speaker 2: or using, and one of those choices had.

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Speaker 1: To do with my work ethic.

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Speaker 2: Now, my work ethic these days is very, very, very

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Speaker 2: different because I was on a path where my ego

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Speaker 2: was running the show and I was not being my best.

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Speaker 1: Today, I'm going to tell you a story about that

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Speaker 1: and how it.

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Speaker 2: Was an extraordinarily huge warning side in my career, but

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Speaker 2: I sailed right by ad and hopefully this story will

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Speaker 2: help you perhaps either recognize something in your own life

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Speaker 2: or understand why the person you've been trying to send

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Speaker 2: a warning sign to didn't see it before I do that. Though,

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Speaker 2: I do need to play some ads, so I'll be

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Speaker 2: back right after the break.

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Speaker 1: Gooday, welcome to.

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Speaker 2: Better than Yesterday. My name Josha Ginsburg. Thanks for being here.

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Speaker 2: This is a podcast that's helping you make today better

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Speaker 2: than yesterday since twenty thirteen. You can find every single

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Speaker 2: episode ever at Oshagainsburg dot com.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you're here.

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Speaker 2: I'm a podcaster, I'm a TV host, I'm a best

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Speaker 2: selling author. I am a noisy fidget toy player with her.

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Speaker 2: I foolishly bought some the other day and they're very

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Speaker 2: lovely to hold in my hands, but they're going to

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Speaker 2: make noise, and I don't want Andy, my audio producer,

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Speaker 2: I have to say to me again, can you please

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Speaker 2: not play with things that are noisy on your desk.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to try, Andy, I'm going to try really hard.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you today about a story which.

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Speaker 2: I really i'd kind of forgotten about, but somebody asked

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Speaker 2: me the other day. Was there a moment where you

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Speaker 2: made a real messive things in your career, Like a real,

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Speaker 2: real fucking messive things in your career? And over the years,

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Speaker 2: I've told stories that are fairly benign, well not benign.

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Speaker 2: They're dramatic and they involve all kinds of chaos, but

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Speaker 2: nothing that was.

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Speaker 1: My personal.

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Speaker 2: Personal responsibility, and I thought, you know what, fuck it,

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Speaker 2: I might be actually doing myself and others a disservice

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Speaker 2: by not sharing one.

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Speaker 1: There's plenty of them.

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Speaker 2: But this particular moment, because it's kind of funny. So

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Speaker 2: around two thousand and five, which is nineteen years ago now,

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Speaker 2: at that time, I was hosting I don't know twelve

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Speaker 2: or fourteen fifteen hours of live music television every week

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Speaker 2: on Channel of V. I was one of the people

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Speaker 2: who was hosting Australian Idol, which is one of the

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Speaker 2: biggest shows in the country. And I also had a

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Speaker 2: radio countdown job that I was doing for one radio

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Speaker 2: network when I got a phone call saying, hey, Barry

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Speaker 2: Bissell's leaving Take forty Australia and we'd like you to

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Speaker 2: take over. And I said, okay, now, Take forty Australia

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Speaker 2: was an incredibly important radio show in my life, was

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Speaker 2: a national countdown show. It was on every single weekend.

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Speaker 2: It was the show that I first heard my ever

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Speaker 2: pop song on. I heard Princes Let's Go Crazy on

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Speaker 2: the radio, and I heard Barry Bissel come on and

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Speaker 2: talk to me about how Prince then played a show

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Speaker 2: until the wee hours of the morning at his nightclub

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Speaker 2: in Minneapolis. It was like that's inoredible and yeah, and

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Speaker 2: so in two thousand and five, we had this wonderful moment,

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Speaker 2: this pr moment where I had my photo taken with

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Speaker 2: Barry Bissell, who he's maybe ten years older than I

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Speaker 2: am now at the time, but he was making a

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Speaker 2: pop music show and he handed the keys over and

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Speaker 2: it was incredible. We were one hundred and eighty something stations.

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Speaker 2: We had an extraordinary interview access. It gave us a

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Speaker 2: lot of heft when it came to getting interview slots.

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Speaker 1: It was huge.

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Speaker 2: This is also the same year that I was diagnosed

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Speaker 2: with social anxiety and wildly didn't want to take the

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Speaker 2: anti present medication I was being offered.

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Speaker 1: It was, you know, the same year that I.

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Speaker 2: Started to really like not leave the house much and

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Speaker 2: really kind of go fairly downhill and do a lot

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Speaker 2: of very intense self medication and avoidant behavior that involved

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Speaker 2: alcohol and drugs and porn and all kind of gambling,

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Speaker 2: all kinds of things. We used to record Take Fort

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Speaker 2: Australia on a Monday morning, eight am, and I fucking

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Speaker 2: hated it because not only would idle finish. We'd get

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Speaker 2: off air at eight thirty five or eight forty on

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Speaker 2: a Sunday night, depending on the length of.

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Speaker 1: The show, and you know, I would go straight to.

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Speaker 2: The green room where there was a party happening, and

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Speaker 2: I would nick two bottles from the bar and drive

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Speaker 2: home and drink those bottles in my house and then

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Speaker 2: probably go out, and then you know, my phone wud

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Speaker 2: start ringing at six in the morning to do radio

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Speaker 2: interviews around the country, and my phone would ring until

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Speaker 2: seven fifteen, when I would get in a cab and

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Speaker 2: take a cab to the radio job, which was wildly

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Speaker 2: Channel V had sold that studio where I was working

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Speaker 2: and was now the same studio now belonged to the

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Speaker 2: radio production company, so around by around two thousand and.

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Speaker 1: Seven, this is kind of what was happening.

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Speaker 2: And I did not like that it was so early

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Speaker 2: on a Monday, and I was rarely, if ever not

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Speaker 2: affected by the drinking and using of the night before.

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Speaker 2: And there was a very very accomplished radio producer by

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Speaker 2: the name of who would write my scripts and would

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Speaker 2: write in my tone of voice, and he got it

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Speaker 2: so on point. And this is often often happens when

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Speaker 2: it comes to these kind of jobs, is that they'll

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Speaker 2: find someone who can write like you, like a human

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Speaker 2: chat gpt really and would write so well that I

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Speaker 2: would just read out loud what he wrote. But because

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Speaker 2: of the way that my memory was being impacted by

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Speaker 2: the substances that I was throwing into my body to

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Speaker 2: not feel the uncomfortable thoughts and feelings, I remember reading

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Speaker 2: and saying to my producer, oh my god, Martin one

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Speaker 2: of the dances and Beyonce's single Ladies videos a dude,

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Speaker 2: and she went, You've literally read that every week for

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Speaker 2: the last four weeks. And I had no way. It

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Speaker 2: was news to.

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Speaker 1: Me that this had even happened.

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Speaker 2: All right now, I think, and my producer had cotton

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Speaker 2: onto this. And I'm sitting there one morning. These guys

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Speaker 2: were in Melbourne.

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Speaker 1: And I'm in Sydney down the line.

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Speaker 2: And they connected me through and I'm sitting there at

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Speaker 2: eight in the morning, like all.

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Speaker 1: Putrid and hungover and shit, and.

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Speaker 2: I've got my script in front of me and I'm

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Speaker 2: reading through it as fast as I can. I've got

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Speaker 2: some coffees on board, and I'm just trying to just

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Speaker 2: get through it. And part of that day was we

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Speaker 2: were going to be interviewing the delightful, beautiful Missy Higgins.

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Speaker 1: And as I get into the interview, Hey Missy, how

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Speaker 1: you do.

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Speaker 2: I get interviewed a bunch of times whatever, and I'm

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Speaker 2: just literally just reading the questions. I'm not even listening

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Speaker 2: to what she's saying. I'm just reading the questions out loud.

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Speaker 2: And as I get to, like the second or third

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Speaker 2: question from the end, I just read it.

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Speaker 1: I started reading it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so Missy, and I'm just not listening to what

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Speaker 2: she's saying, and I can hear that she's finishing what

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Speaker 2: she's going to say, and I said, I read it

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Speaker 2: out loud. I said, oh, not even thinking and not

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Speaker 2: proof reading it, just going, so, Missy, have you ever

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Speaker 2: tried the rusty hook? And she went, what what's that?

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Speaker 2: And I looked at the next line and I said,

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Speaker 2: the rusty hook is, And thank fuck, I read the

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Speaker 2: end of the scene before I started speaking it out loud,

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Speaker 2: because what it is is a really, very very filthy

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Speaker 2: sex move. And I'll tell you what happened. In a moment,

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Speaker 2: I thought I do have to play a few more ads.

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Speaker 2: So I was back in a second with the rest

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Speaker 2: of this story, Thanks for sticking with me, Thanks for

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Speaker 2: let me play some ads.

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Speaker 1: And keep the bills paid here at our house.

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Speaker 2: So I'm talking about when my writer and my radio

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Speaker 2: producer kind of they were I'm going to guess they

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Speaker 2: were trying to send me a bit of a message about,

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Speaker 2: hey man, you are phoning this in. And to be honest,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever heard the term phoning

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Speaker 2: it in. To phone it in is to be Look,

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Speaker 2: I'm here, I'm awake. What more do you want?

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Speaker 1: That is it? That is?

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Speaker 2: I'm not putting effort in. I'm not trying. I am

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Speaker 2: relying on who I.

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Speaker 1: Am, essentially, like how much ego is involved in that.

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Speaker 2: I'm relying on who I am to be enough and

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Speaker 2: do the job, versus actually put effort in and do

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Speaker 2: what you know the job requires, which is some thought

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Speaker 2: and some expansion.

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Speaker 1: And Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I was phoning in it to such a point

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Speaker 2: doing this radio job, this countdown show that I was

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Speaker 2: no longer riffing off the script that.

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Speaker 1: Dell would write for me. I'll just read the words

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Speaker 1: he said to me out loud.

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Speaker 2: And one day I'm interviewing Missy Higgins at eight twenty

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Speaker 2: in the morning or something after getting out of minutes

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Speaker 2: of sleep and just would have taken a cab in

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Speaker 2: because I was.

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Speaker 1: Not right to drive at that time of day.

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Speaker 2: And I say, Missy, what's have you ever tried the

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Speaker 2: rusty hook? As he has pardon, what what are you

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Speaker 2: talking about? And I look down, Well, the risty hooks

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Speaker 2: are and I stopped myself. I don't even think I'm

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Speaker 2: going to say it out loud here, but it's very

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Speaker 2: You could probably google it by now. What followed was

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Speaker 2: a very, very graphic description of a sex move that

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Speaker 2: is not the sort of thing you bring up in

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Speaker 2: a polite interview with Missy Higgins, and it was certainly

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Speaker 2: never going to make the cut on any any radio

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Speaker 2: station anywhere in one hundred and eighty somethings that we

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Speaker 2: were at. And it was I at the time was

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Speaker 2: outraged that and do this to me? Don't you know

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Speaker 2: who I am? How dare you play this kind.

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Speaker 1: Of prank on me? You mother? I was furious.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't until just the other day when someone

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Speaker 2: asked me to tell a story that I thought, you

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Speaker 2: know what, I should really tell that story because it

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Speaker 2: is a perfect example of how I was absolutely not

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Speaker 2: taking responsibility for who I was being at work. I

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Speaker 2: was not at all putting the effort in to justify

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Speaker 2: the money that I was getting paid. I was taking

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Speaker 2: the whole thing for granted. I was allowing my ego

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Speaker 2: and my selfishness to run show. I was expecting that

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Speaker 2: my complete unprofessionalism was going to be ignored because of

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Speaker 2: who the fuck I was and these guys who and

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Speaker 2: I've been close to for a long time. He came

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Speaker 2: to see the show in Melbourne the other day. I

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Speaker 2: guess these guys were trying to say, you know, and

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Speaker 2: show to me like, hey man, this is fucked. What

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Speaker 2: you're doing is completely fucked, and we're gonna the only

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Speaker 2: way that we can actually get you to understand how

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Speaker 2: bad this is for everybody. And ultimately you're harming the show,

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Speaker 2: you're huming yourself, you're humming us, because if the show

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Speaker 2: doesn't rate, the show doesn't come back, then we don't

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Speaker 2: have jobs, you know, So we're going.

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Speaker 1: Under with you, going under the bus with you.

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Speaker 2: These guys were trying to show me, and the only

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Speaker 2: way they knew was to truly it was to kind

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Speaker 2: of humiliate me in a loving way. And I did

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Speaker 2: not see it as that at all. I saw it

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Speaker 2: as a how dare you?

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Speaker 1: This is the worst? You guys are fucked. I'm never not.

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Speaker 2: I was aghast, aghast that they would even a dare

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Speaker 2: to do such a thing to me. And I totally

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Speaker 2: missed it. I totally missed it. Don't worry. I carried

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Speaker 2: on just fucking phoning it in for a few more

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Speaker 2: years yet, and I put less and less effort in

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Speaker 2: and as I'm sure you could imagine, what happened was

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Speaker 2: that show. Eventually it just went away. The radio network

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Speaker 2: was like, we can make this ourselves and probably make

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Speaker 2: way more money than paying you to do it. And

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Speaker 2: you know what, it's not rating that great, And you know,

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Speaker 2: all this I have to take responsibility for because I

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Speaker 2: was not doing my part unbelievably in the room. My

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Speaker 2: bosses at the time were able to pitch an idea

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Speaker 2: that we'd had around a show from America for Australia

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Speaker 2: and the network we're into that, and that's how I

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Speaker 2: ended up with that radio show out of la that

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Speaker 2: we made back for Australia. But Take fort Australia, yeah,

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Speaker 2: ended I am the person who was hosting Take forty

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Speaker 2: Australia when I ran this fucking flagship show that had

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Speaker 2: been around for I think at this point twenty years

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Speaker 2: or thirty years, and.

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Speaker 1: I ran an end of the ground.

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Speaker 2: Then I was warned and I had you know, things

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Speaker 2: like this story at were happening and I didn't see

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Speaker 2: it coming, and I was surprised when it happened because

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Speaker 2: I was not willing to take responsibility for my behavior,

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Speaker 2: and I was not willing to take responsibility.

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Speaker 1: For how selfish I was being.

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Speaker 2: And how arrogant I was being, and their ego that

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Speaker 2: was involved in behaving that way, even when something as

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Speaker 2: humiliating as that happened. And full credit to the boys,

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Speaker 2: they were just doing their best to try to keep

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Speaker 2: their jobs.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry that I fucked it up for you guys.

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Speaker 2: Now, Eventually I did stop drinking a couple of years later.

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Speaker 2: And this kind of behavior meant that who I was

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Speaker 2: to work with was not a great value proposition. And

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Speaker 2: so when the last of the jobs went away, it

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Speaker 2: was no surprise to me that the last of the

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Speaker 2: jobs went away, and it was no surprise to me

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Speaker 2: that I was having a hard time getting a job. So,

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Speaker 2: as we like to say, in most super Secret Soberclub.

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Speaker 2: You've got to find humility before humility finds you. And

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Speaker 2: so I had to have a really honest look at

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Speaker 2: what the fuck was happening. And I'd started doing this

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Speaker 2: a little bit beforehand, when I was working on the

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Speaker 2: CBS show, but by then it was way too late.

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Speaker 1: The menum of these things can carry hard.

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Speaker 2: But I was doing this thing the other day while

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Speaker 2: I was talking to a bunch of young on camera people,

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Speaker 2: you know, just doing a session, basically talking about being

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Speaker 2: on camera and stuff like that, and I spent most

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Speaker 2: of the time saying, Look, your job is to make

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Speaker 2: everyone else's day on set easy. That's your job. Your

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Speaker 2: job is to be in the right place at the

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Speaker 2: right time, looking great, looking fresh, knowing your shit, standing

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Speaker 2: in the right spot, knowing the job, knowing the gig,

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Speaker 2: knowing the key players, knowing who's important, knows what, Knowing

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Speaker 2: that you know what the sales integration is, Knowing what

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Speaker 2: the key lines are, knowing what all the mandatories are,

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Speaker 2: knowing who the key players are, knowing people's names, being

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Speaker 2: helpful because if you do all of those things, you'll

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Speaker 2: end up being a great presenter. So now that is

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Speaker 2: how I approach everything. That's how I approach it is

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Speaker 2: sitting here right now with the exception of the noisy

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Speaker 2: clicky toy in my hand that I'm trying very hard

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Speaker 2: not to make noise, but I can't quite stop playing

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Speaker 2: with it. I'm sorry, Andy, that is what I try

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Speaker 2: to do. And I certainly hope that you never have

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Speaker 2: your moment with the rusty hook. And if you do,

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Speaker 2: I hope that you notice it because I did not

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Speaker 2: notice it. I didn't see it coming and I didn't

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Speaker 2: see it going, and I ignored all of it. And

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Speaker 2: let's say I've got a wise return on my investment.

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Speaker 1: That's about it. Thank you so much for listening to

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Speaker 1: the show. All right, I'll tell you what the rusty

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Speaker 1: hook is. It's filthy.

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Speaker 2: If you've got kids in the car, do not listen,

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Speaker 2: and bear in mind that is. I've got Missy Higgins

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Speaker 2: on the phone right and I say.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what a rousty hooker is? You guess

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Speaker 1: what are you talking about? What's that?

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Speaker 2: And I look down and I see the end of

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Speaker 2: the sentence. I said, well, it's when you and I

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Speaker 2: stopped talking, because the end of the sentence is thinking

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Speaker 2: someone from behind up there and then with the you

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Speaker 2: put it in there, and then to the so I'm

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Speaker 2: like with a rusty hook, and that's what I had

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Speaker 2: written in my script and I was starting to say

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Speaker 2: that sentence, and I'm gratefully you did that, because even

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Speaker 2: though I didn't know at the time, it's something I've

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Speaker 2: never ever, ever forgotten and it took me a very,

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Speaker 2: very valuable lesson. It was one of those things where

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Speaker 2: it was years later, is after I got sober that

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Speaker 2: I started remembering it happened again and went, oh, fuck,

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Speaker 2: of course I didn't get post jobs.

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Speaker 1: I was behaving like that. Ah, right, that makes sense,

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Speaker 1: right of course. Sorry.

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Speaker 2: Ah, But as my man David says to me, the

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Speaker 2: good news is we get to live the rest of

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Speaker 2: our lives.

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Speaker 1: Not being that guy anymore. And that's good news.

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Speaker 2: So thanks, thanks, Sorry, Missy. I hope this helped you

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Speaker 2: in some way.

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Speaker 1: I'm back here on Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: If you need me for anything, you can find on

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Speaker 2: the website Oshiginsburg dot com. Leave us a voicemail. I

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Speaker 2: love to do a Q and a episode. Pop your

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Speaker 2: questions there and we can have a young It'll be fun,

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Speaker 2: all right. I'll see it Wednesday. This episod was brought

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Speaker 2: to you by on audio post production, mikey Ward on

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Speaker 2: video post production, Toehider on the music. My producer is

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Speaker 2: Brie Steel, My executive function assistant is Monica Chapman.

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Speaker 1: And if you want to hear every episode.

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Speaker 2: We've ever done, going back to twenty thirteen, get on

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00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,400
Speaker 2: the mail list and get in touch with me. Leave

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Speaker 2: a voicemail. You can do it all right now at

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00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,919
Speaker 2: Oshigensberg dot com