WEBVTT - Brooke Boney: life one year on after walking away from Today

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<v Speaker 1>It's really good to see you look gorgeous as always.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm getting more sleep now so I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>I maybe have stopped dating in dog ears.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello and welcome to Something to Talk About the Stella podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Sarah lamafain to your host, and every week I

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<v Speaker 1>sit down with some of the biggest names in the

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<v Speaker 1>country because when Australia's celebrities are ready to talk, they

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<v Speaker 1>come to Something to talk about. Twelve months ago, almost

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<v Speaker 1>of the day, Brooke Boney was lying in bed in

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<v Speaker 1>the early hours of the morning preparing for one of

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest announcements of her life. She was quitting the

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<v Speaker 1>Today Show to move to the UK to enroll in

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<v Speaker 1>the Masters at Oxford University.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to go into too much right now,

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<v Speaker 2>because there will be plenty of time for goodbyes and

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<v Speaker 2>thank yous, but I just wanted to share that good

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<v Speaker 2>slash bad news with you all this morning.

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<v Speaker 1>For many people, it was a shock because for a

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<v Speaker 1>television presenter, the Today Show is a kind of job

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<v Speaker 1>you never leave, but not for Brook.

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<v Speaker 2>I always wanted to do things so that I could

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<v Speaker 2>show like young women from the country, or young Aboriginal girls,

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<v Speaker 2>or you know, any I guess anyone really like that.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, if you want to do something that it's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of it's not beyond you, if you work really

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<v Speaker 2>hard and there are lots of people who help you,

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<v Speaker 2>and if you're lucky.

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<v Speaker 1>A proud Gamilla Roy woman, Brook worked hard at building

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<v Speaker 1>a career in journalism and became the first Indigenous woman

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<v Speaker 1>on a commercial, breakfast TV show when she joined The

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<v Speaker 1>Today Show six years ago as a news and entertainment reporter. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>twelve months on from that shock announcement, Brook joins me

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<v Speaker 1>from her dorm room in Oxford to talk about what

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<v Speaker 1>her life looks like since leaving Today and to chat

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<v Speaker 1>about some of the revelations in her new memoir, All

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<v Speaker 1>of It, including her thoughts on body image, fertility, fame,

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<v Speaker 1>and the truth about First Nations representation on Australian TV.

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<v Speaker 1>Brooke Bowney, Welcome to the Stellar Podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Sarah. Thank you. It's so nice to see you.

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<v Speaker 1>It is so nice to see you too. I used

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<v Speaker 1>to see you all the time in Australia at the

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<v Speaker 1>studio on the Today Show and then of course you're

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<v Speaker 1>packed up and you moved to Oxford, which is where

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<v Speaker 1>you are beaming into this interview from literally from your

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<v Speaker 1>dorm room. Is that right?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm inside my dorm room. So my college is

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<v Speaker 2>San Antony's. You can see kind of out the window

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<v Speaker 2>that the trees are starting to get little tiny buds

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<v Speaker 2>on them, but it is freezing cold, and I've got

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<v Speaker 2>class today. I've got exams next week, so I'm very

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<v Speaker 2>much feeling like a student and not like a Today's

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<v Speaker 2>Show host anymore, like when I used to see you

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<v Speaker 2>early in the morning.

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<v Speaker 1>Brook, Congratulations on your memoir, which is coming out very soon.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to hold it up for people that are

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<v Speaker 1>watching it on YouTube. I mean, it's exciting for me

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<v Speaker 1>to hold this book. I can only imagine how exciting

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<v Speaker 1>it is for you who wrote the book.

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<v Speaker 2>It feels kind of surreal, so like I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>everyone says this about themselves, and I swear I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>being disingenuous, but to be somewhere like Oxford or in Oxford,

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<v Speaker 2>and then to have written a book as well, I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't ever think that I would do things like that,

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<v Speaker 2>Like I didn't. I thought that those things were for like,

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<v Speaker 2>really exceptional people, for people who weren't me. Basically, I

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<v Speaker 2>remember going with a walk for a walk with a

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<v Speaker 2>friend in Bonda would have been about maybe nearly ten

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<v Speaker 2>years ago. I probably just started on Triple J and

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<v Speaker 2>he'd just finished in Oxford and he was writing a book,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was like, wow, like that's so impressive, that

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<v Speaker 2>is so cool. And it didn't even occur to me

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<v Speaker 2>that those things would be something that I could do.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't even like, oh, that's aspirational. It seemed so

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<v Speaker 2>far out of the realm of possibility for me, and

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<v Speaker 2>so to have done it now it just feels surreal,

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<v Speaker 2>like it doesn't feel like it's happening to me. I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like I've stepped onto a different timeline.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to actually start where your book starts, which

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<v Speaker 1>is almost exactly a year ago, March twenty twenty four,

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<v Speaker 1>and you write about waking up and knowing that you

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<v Speaker 1>were prepared bring yourself, bracing yourself really to tell the

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<v Speaker 1>entire nation that you had decided to leave your job

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<v Speaker 1>as a news and entertainment presenter on the Today Show

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<v Speaker 1>on Breakfast TV, and as we've just talked about, moved

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<v Speaker 1>to the other side of the world and study a

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<v Speaker 1>master's at Oxford University. Take us back if you could

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<v Speaker 1>to that morning.

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<v Speaker 2>Even hearing you say that, it makes me feel like

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<v Speaker 2>a bit uneasy, like I'm going through it again. Like

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<v Speaker 2>I remember first getting the email to say that I'd

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<v Speaker 2>gotten in and then trying to make the decision because

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<v Speaker 2>I got a couple of different offers, so I was

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<v Speaker 2>trying to make the decision about where I was going

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<v Speaker 2>to go, and then thinking like, am I haven't going

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<v Speaker 2>to be allowed to go? Are they going to are

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<v Speaker 2>they going to let me do this? Is this? You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm contracted for longer than you know when this offer,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, is coming through. And I remember calling my agent,

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<v Speaker 2>Michelle and being like can you I need to speak

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<v Speaker 2>to you? Can you sit down? And she was sort

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<v Speaker 2>of like yes, because you know what it's like if

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<v Speaker 2>you get a phone call like that, you think someone

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<v Speaker 2>is like sick, or there's something going on, or I

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<v Speaker 2>think probably people thought, oh, she's pregnant, like when I

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<v Speaker 2>had to tell them because I was so sort of

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<v Speaker 2>serious with the tone. I'm like, Okay, you need to

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<v Speaker 2>be somewhere alone and you need to sit down, and

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<v Speaker 2>just trying to explain to her and sort of like

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<v Speaker 2>walk her through it was so bizarre, and then you know,

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<v Speaker 2>as it got sort of closer and closer to the

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<v Speaker 2>day where I had to tell my boss Burlow, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you know what Burlo's like, like he's so

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<v Speaker 2>sort of jovial, but you know, quite serious as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And so we finish our meeting, like our editorial meeting

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<v Speaker 2>that we have every day after the show, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, can you just can you just stay?

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<v Speaker 2>I just wanted to talk to you about something, and

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<v Speaker 2>he was sort of like, what's going on? And the

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<v Speaker 2>immediate response from everyone was it was just joy because

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<v Speaker 2>you know, how could you possibly be upset about that?

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<v Speaker 2>But in my mind, I was like, everyone's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be angry at me, believing they're going to be annoyed

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<v Speaker 2>at me for you know, disrupting the show. And then

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<v Speaker 2>of course, once you tell like you know, your agent

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<v Speaker 2>and your boss and you know, you sort of have

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<v Speaker 2>people figuring out contracts and things like that, it's really

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<v Speaker 2>it's very real. And then the moment starts where you're like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I hope this doesn't leak, like I hope that I'm

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<v Speaker 2>able to announce it, because you know, if it leaks,

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<v Speaker 2>then it's like, oh, she's leaving, but why? And there's

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<v Speaker 2>no sort of detail. So I was just so nervous.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't tell anyone. I think I told Carl and

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<v Speaker 2>Sarah like a couple of days before, and they were

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<v Speaker 2>both just like, oh, you're going to get off the

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<v Speaker 2>early mornings. But then they were both really sad that

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<v Speaker 2>I was leaving and that that was pretty pretty lovely too.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's so nice to have something that you

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<v Speaker 2>love so much that you miss it when you and

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<v Speaker 2>that that's how I felt about them as I was going.

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<v Speaker 2>And then the morning of so we've got like rundowns

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<v Speaker 2>so that you can sort of go through the show.

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<v Speaker 2>It's sort of like a list, you know, like a

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<v Speaker 2>contents list, and in each each heading there's a script

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<v Speaker 2>and there was one heading that said surprise news something

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<v Speaker 2>like that, and so it all started. Everyone was like

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<v Speaker 2>a bus like, oh, what's going on? Like who's leaving?

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<v Speaker 2>Is what's the announcement? And I was getting text messages

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<v Speaker 2>from people like what's the Today Show announcing? And says

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<v Speaker 2>and I just sitting there next to each other, both

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<v Speaker 2>being like they're going to think one of us is pregnant.

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<v Speaker 2>They were building it up and we're both like young women,

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<v Speaker 2>like you know, and then the moment that it happened.

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<v Speaker 2>I felt so relieved that it was, that it was

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<v Speaker 2>out and that you know, I can sort of speak

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<v Speaker 2>about it openly, but also just kind of like sick

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<v Speaker 2>that like there's a finality to that. You know, you

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<v Speaker 2>can't really go back after that. And so like once

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<v Speaker 2>I said it out loud and said it on TV,

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<v Speaker 2>that's it, I'm going.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really real then, isn't it. It's even more real

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<v Speaker 1>than the contracts in some ways because it's been said

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<v Speaker 1>and it talked about the joy when when you manager

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<v Speaker 1>Michelle and your boss Burlow and you told them, and

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<v Speaker 1>also obviously sadness from Carl and Sarah, but also happiness

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<v Speaker 1>for you. But then the reaction people of Brooke that

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<v Speaker 1>you don't know, the people that were waking up every

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<v Speaker 1>morning and watching you and following the story on social

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<v Speaker 1>media and heard it. It was a real moment. And

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<v Speaker 1>I was thinking about it when you were talking earlier

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<v Speaker 1>about about a decade ago, thinking I could never be

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<v Speaker 1>that person that goes and studies at Oxford and writes

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<v Speaker 1>a book. You, I think became that person for a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people in that moment because you took a

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<v Speaker 1>risk you were there in a job that we think

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<v Speaker 1>or you've got that job, you never let go of

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<v Speaker 1>that something like that. Obviously in your industry, it's one

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<v Speaker 1>of the biggest jobs in the country, but whoever is

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<v Speaker 1>watching or listening, you know, to get to that point

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<v Speaker 1>in their career and then take this risk, go and

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<v Speaker 1>do something that a lot of us think about but

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<v Speaker 1>don't do. Were you aware of that reaction and how

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<v Speaker 1>how do you feel about that? And what would you

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<v Speaker 1>say to people that come up and say, oh my gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>it really inspired me, or I don't think I could

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<v Speaker 1>ever find the courage to do what you did.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so weird to think of it as courage or

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<v Speaker 2>or is anything other than just kind of doing what

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<v Speaker 2>you have to do. And I mean, it is truly

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<v Speaker 2>the best job. And there have been moments where I've

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<v Speaker 2>been like, what the heck am I doing? Why would

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<v Speaker 2>I leave this place? Like it's a great job. I

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<v Speaker 2>love the team, Like it's wonderful in so many ways.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you get to go in every morning and

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<v Speaker 2>be with the hair and makeup girls and like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they're just so wonderful. They make you feel so good,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, so many of them have become really

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<v Speaker 2>close friends. But I think for me, I think it

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<v Speaker 2>depends on why you do it, right. I always wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to do things so that I could show like young

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<v Speaker 2>women from the country, or young Aboriginal girls, or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>any I guess anyone really like you. You know, if

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<v Speaker 2>you want to do something that it's kind of it's

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<v Speaker 2>not beyond you, if you work really hard and if

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<v Speaker 2>there are lots of people who help you, and if

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<v Speaker 2>you're lucky basically, and so once i'd sort of done

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<v Speaker 2>that and I was like, Okay, there's other things that

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<v Speaker 2>I really want to do. If I don't do them now,

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<v Speaker 2>then I kind of never will. And so I kind

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<v Speaker 2>of got to a point where it felt like the

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<v Speaker 2>only option, if that makes sense, like to stay would

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<v Speaker 2>have been sort of wouldn't have been like, oh, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>so lucky to be here, but it would have been

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<v Speaker 2>robbing myself of another alternative, If that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>It makes so much sense. I think a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>decisions can be like that, if you're grappling with them, well,

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<v Speaker 1>what if I didn't do this and then and sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>you know straight away yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think in a way, it wasn't like, oh, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so brave for doing this. Although I can see

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<v Speaker 2>like why people would think that because it's so lovely

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<v Speaker 2>being on the Today Show, but it was like, oh no,

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<v Speaker 2>this is literally the only option. Like if I'm able to,

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<v Speaker 2>then then I must, like I have to What.

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<v Speaker 1>Are the things that you miss the most from your

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<v Speaker 1>previous life? If that's not too dramatic a way to

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<v Speaker 1>put it.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I think that's out. Your life is so easy

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<v Speaker 2>when you're on the Today Show because you work so

0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.200
<v Speaker 2>hard and the stakes are so high, and so there's

0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.079
<v Speaker 2>lots of things like you know, the hair and makeup

0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:39.679
<v Speaker 2>ladies and they're always sort of gassing you up and

0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.280
<v Speaker 2>making you feel good, and you know, Alex and Beck

0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.360
<v Speaker 2>and Ari from Wardrobe like helping you choose what to

0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.800
<v Speaker 2>wear every day. Like when I came over here, it

0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:53.480
<v Speaker 2>felt so kind of weird to step away from that

0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:55.520
<v Speaker 2>because I was like, oh, I don't have any support.

0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:57.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, you have support because it's such a big

0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.479
<v Speaker 2>job and it's a big life when you're on the show.

0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.000
<v Speaker 2>But here I was like, you know, part of stepping

0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.160
<v Speaker 2>into that anonymity and that you know, woman of mystery.

0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Thing that I wanted to do was I meant that

0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:10.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm you know, it was on my own. I have

0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.800
<v Speaker 2>to organize everything myself. I don't have producers and I

0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.840
<v Speaker 2>don't have any anyone to sort of help me get

0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.120
<v Speaker 2>dressed for stuff or you know, figure my life out.

0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.719
<v Speaker 2>And there have been moments where I'm like, oh, this

0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:27.600
<v Speaker 2>is actually it's there's a lot. Yes, not to feel

0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:32.360
<v Speaker 2>sorry for myself at all, but yeah, like it made

0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:35.800
<v Speaker 2>me feel grateful for the times that I that I

0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.520
<v Speaker 2>did have that support. I think going straight from the

0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:45.760
<v Speaker 2>Olympics into Oxford was was jarring because it was like

0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:49.240
<v Speaker 2>the Olympics was like the Today Show on steroids, because

0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.719
<v Speaker 2>we were all together for what four or five weeks,

0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.200
<v Speaker 2>like all sort of staying at the same hotel, going

0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:58.040
<v Speaker 2>in through hair and makeup every day, working crazy hours,

0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.120
<v Speaker 2>just you know, all working our butts off and sore.

0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.360
<v Speaker 2>It was like, you know, being with work people all

0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:06.120
<v Speaker 2>the time who are like, you know, there are our

0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.800
<v Speaker 2>friends anyway. But to go from that and having all

0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:11.520
<v Speaker 2>of the support and the whole network around you, you

0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:13.840
<v Speaker 2>sort of feel so tightly held and you're there with

0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:18.400
<v Speaker 2>purpose to getting to London and being on my own

0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.760
<v Speaker 2>and sort of for the first time kind of stopping

0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:26.120
<v Speaker 2>and exhaling. It was like the two things couldn't have

0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.000
<v Speaker 2>been more different. I couldn't have been more on my

0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:31.640
<v Speaker 2>own when I got to London. But it didn't feel bad.

0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.240
<v Speaker 2>I still, in that moment, felt like I've done the

0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:35.880
<v Speaker 2>right thing here.

0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:38.640
<v Speaker 1>I was going to ask, have there ever been any

0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.360
<v Speaker 1>moments where you think, oh, gosh, what did I do?

0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:47.400
<v Speaker 1>I've made a really dumb decision here? Any regrets.

0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.120
<v Speaker 2>I know everyone talks about the weather in London in

0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.760
<v Speaker 2>the UK generally, but it is like a bit boring.

0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 2>But I think that you don't kind of get how

0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.480
<v Speaker 2>much of an impact it has on your life until

0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:01.920
<v Speaker 2>you get here. You have to live through it. But

0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:05.680
<v Speaker 2>the winter is there have been moments during the winter

0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.400
<v Speaker 2>where I've been like, why did I choose to come

0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.080
<v Speaker 2>here again? I could be you know, watching cricket and

0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.880
<v Speaker 2>eating ham sandwiches and going down to Red Leaf for

0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:17.040
<v Speaker 2>a swim. Instead, I'm like, you know, putting on my

0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.640
<v Speaker 2>gum boots and trying to get to class in the snow,

0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.200
<v Speaker 2>trying not to slip over and like, you know, break

0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.120
<v Speaker 2>my neck on the way on the way into school.

0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:27.240
<v Speaker 2>And I think it's not so much they're cold, even

0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.880
<v Speaker 2>that is bad, but it's it's how dark it is.

0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:35.360
<v Speaker 2>I think Australians take for granted how much sunshine we

0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.200
<v Speaker 2>have all the time, even in winter. Like the other

0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.520
<v Speaker 2>days on the on FaceTime to my sister and she's like,

0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:43.560
<v Speaker 2>do you want me to walk outside and I'll show

0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.520
<v Speaker 2>you some sunshine, and like you know, she walked out

0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.440
<v Speaker 2>and it was just like so bright and so beautiful.

0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.640
<v Speaker 2>And then I showed her outside my window and I

0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 2>think it had been great, Like I hadn't seen the

0:14:55.680 --> 0:15:01.320
<v Speaker 2>sky for a ten days, and that sort of that's

0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.600
<v Speaker 2>a bizarre feeling. Like in those moments, I'm like, oh no,

0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.400
<v Speaker 2>I've really messed this up, Like what am I doing?

0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.280
<v Speaker 2>What an idiot?

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.080
<v Speaker 1>And up next, Brook opens up about the toll being

0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.760
<v Speaker 1>the first Indigenous person on commercial breakfast TV in Australia

0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.920
<v Speaker 1>took on her mental health. Brook I wanted just to

0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.680
<v Speaker 1>talk a little bit about apart from the fact that

0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:33.680
<v Speaker 1>your anonymity was short lived among your classmates outside in

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:38.000
<v Speaker 1>the wider culture, because you talk before about you know,

0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.560
<v Speaker 1>going down to redlif going to the beach in Australia,

0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:44.080
<v Speaker 1>and often that might be a pap is following you

0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.040
<v Speaker 1>and you're writing the book about, you know, the darker

0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:49.880
<v Speaker 1>side of fame and the unrelenting side of it, and

0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.360
<v Speaker 1>from you know, really serious instances of being stalked and

0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:59.640
<v Speaker 1>followed and the intrusion. I'm assuming that your woman of

0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:04.760
<v Speaker 1>Missy identity is hopefully preserved for the most part when

0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.320
<v Speaker 1>you venture off campus. Can I ask you a little

0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:11.040
<v Speaker 1>bit about that? What are your observations about celebrity culture

0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.720
<v Speaker 1>in Australia now you've got a bit of distance from it.

0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:19.760
<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize how much that kind of thing had

0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.760
<v Speaker 2>an impact on me until I was away from it.

0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm definitely not like one of the most famous, you know, women,

0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.000
<v Speaker 2>or someone who even gets harassed that much by photographers

0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:32.240
<v Speaker 2>or anything. But you always sort of have that in

0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:33.600
<v Speaker 2>the back of your mind, so you don't feel like

0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.200
<v Speaker 2>you could ever sort of leave or be in like

0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.720
<v Speaker 2>public spaces or whatever without that thing sort of going,

0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:41.880
<v Speaker 2>like someone could be taking a photo of you right now,

0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:43.760
<v Speaker 2>or like you could be getting papped. Like it's just

0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.160
<v Speaker 2>sort of like a it's not in the front of

0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.240
<v Speaker 2>your mind, but it's sort of just like omnipresent, you're

0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:53.200
<v Speaker 2>just always aware that you're in public on display. And

0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.640
<v Speaker 2>also like when you do have those awful stalking incidents,

0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:01.240
<v Speaker 2>sometimes they are unresolved. You know, the person, whoever it is,

0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.959
<v Speaker 2>is still out there, you know, like they still have

0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:07.240
<v Speaker 2>maybe they still have a desire to be in contact

0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 2>with you. Maybe they're even more enthusiastic or in you know,

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:15.400
<v Speaker 2>crazy than what they were before. You just don't know.

0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:19.080
<v Speaker 2>And so, you know, that sort of thing I think

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:21.920
<v Speaker 2>is always it's always in the back of your mind,

0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:25.879
<v Speaker 2>and here, because I'm so far removed from it, I

0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.879
<v Speaker 2>think there's a layer of stress or preparedness that's just

0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.760
<v Speaker 2>not there. So I feel so much more relaxed. And

0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.080
<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize how much of a toll or how

0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:39.840
<v Speaker 2>much of a weight that was until I was away

0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:40.200
<v Speaker 2>from it.

0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.200
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, because it's a bit like the weather. You wouldn't

0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:49.200
<v Speaker 1>realize the impact it's having on you until it's no

0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 1>longer a factor.

0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.879
<v Speaker 2>Yes, exactly. So I'm coming home very soon, and I

0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.080
<v Speaker 2>think it's going to be interesting to experience what it's

0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.560
<v Speaker 2>like in reverse. If that feeling will just automatically come back,

0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.280
<v Speaker 2>or now that you know, because I'm not on TV anymore,

0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.879
<v Speaker 2>maybe it will be a bit less. I don't know,

0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.000
<v Speaker 2>like I won't be able to feel it as much.

0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I'll wait and see.

0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.160
<v Speaker 1>That's right. Well, you will be coming home and look

0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:17.280
<v Speaker 1>us putting you on the cover of Stella probably won't

0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.320
<v Speaker 1>help there, so you know, probably will have the perhaps

0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:24.840
<v Speaker 1>waiting at the airport. So apologies for that part, Brook, I.

0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:27.119
<v Speaker 2>Look good when I get off the plane that we.

0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:30.359
<v Speaker 1>All call in the hair and makeup people from the

0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.560
<v Speaker 1>Today Show, you know, one last hurrah, Brook. I'd like

0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:37.560
<v Speaker 1>to touch upon a few different chapters and topics that

0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:42.200
<v Speaker 1>you tackle in all of it. One of them I'd

0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.760
<v Speaker 1>like to talk about is the lies we're told about

0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:53.040
<v Speaker 1>fertility and such a great topic, such a powerful way

0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:58.359
<v Speaker 1>that you tackle this issue. What are the lies that

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.280
<v Speaker 1>we're told about fertility?

0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:04.919
<v Speaker 2>I think you know, from even when we're young, we

0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.600
<v Speaker 2>all sort of have this idea and maybe the generations

0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:10.399
<v Speaker 2>blow us are a bit different, but that motherhood or

0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.360
<v Speaker 2>parenthood is a right or you know that it will

0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.600
<v Speaker 2>just happen. I think we're finding out as we get

0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:20.000
<v Speaker 2>into our you know, thirties and forties, that it really

0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.560
<v Speaker 2>doesn't for a lot of people. I did a couple

0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.520
<v Speaker 2>of rounds of egg freezing, and they do this thing

0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.560
<v Speaker 2>where they like they you know, it's got your age

0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:30.200
<v Speaker 2>on one side, and then you know the number of

0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:31.800
<v Speaker 2>eggs on the other, and then they've got like a

0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:33.800
<v Speaker 2>line and it tells you like how likely you are

0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:37.359
<v Speaker 2>to have a live birth based on how many eggs

0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:43.119
<v Speaker 2>they retrieve. And it's really daunting because you're like, what, like,

0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.040
<v Speaker 2>there's a chance that this won't work, Like I'll pay

0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.320
<v Speaker 2>all this money and put my body through all of

0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.280
<v Speaker 2>this and then it might not even yield any positive

0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.240
<v Speaker 2>results for me. This isn't like this is a rip off.

0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:57.560
<v Speaker 2>There's no justice in this. And then the more that

0:19:57.600 --> 0:19:59.640
<v Speaker 2>I learned that, I was like, wait, it's the same

0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:03.480
<v Speaker 2>for me. Like men, their fertility drops off, like sperm

0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:07.479
<v Speaker 2>quality goes down, the sperm count goes down. There's all

0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:09.879
<v Speaker 2>of these environmental factors now that are around us that

0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:13.239
<v Speaker 2>mean that you know, no one is as fertile as

0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:16.399
<v Speaker 2>what we sort of used to be. So I was like,

0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.760
<v Speaker 2>we shouldn't be waiting so long if we want to

0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.960
<v Speaker 2>have babies. This is crazy. Why do we delay it

0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.119
<v Speaker 2>for so long? And then finally we're like, oh no, no,

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:27.560
<v Speaker 2>we're desperate to do it. We're going to pay tens

0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:29.520
<v Speaker 2>of thousands of dollars and we must do this in

0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:33.080
<v Speaker 2>the next two years. It's so it's so weird as

0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:34.800
<v Speaker 2>a woman. I don't know whether you felt like this,

0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.719
<v Speaker 2>but you know, you spend your whole life trying not

0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:42.960
<v Speaker 2>to get pregnant. You know, from your whole twenties, you're like,

0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:44.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, please, you be so happy when you get

0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:48.440
<v Speaker 2>a period, but then it gets to a certain point

0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.239
<v Speaker 2>you're like, oh no, oh, no, I'm going to run

0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:54.280
<v Speaker 2>out of time, and it's like overnight, it just sort

0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:59.399
<v Speaker 2>of switches. It's so bizarre. So I think I you know,

0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:01.280
<v Speaker 2>and I wrote about it at the time when I

0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:03.840
<v Speaker 2>did my egg freezing, But every time I have a

0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.199
<v Speaker 2>conversation with a woman who's in her thirty something like, please,

0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:08.439
<v Speaker 2>for the love of God, even if you have to

0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:11.119
<v Speaker 2>borrow money from your parents or something like or I

0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:14.199
<v Speaker 2>don't know, figure it out, freeze your eggs because it

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.159
<v Speaker 2>means you know, you're going to be able to work,

0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:19.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, for longer if you feel like it. But

0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:22.560
<v Speaker 2>also you're not going to have pressure when you're dating

0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.800
<v Speaker 2>to feel like you have to settle down with the

0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:29.639
<v Speaker 2>person that you're with, or even like the timing of things,

0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:31.840
<v Speaker 2>like you have just a little bit more control, or

0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.560
<v Speaker 2>at least you feel like you've got control over it.

0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.200
<v Speaker 2>But there's this really interesting fact. I don't know whether

0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.960
<v Speaker 2>it's the same now, it's what it was when I

0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.800
<v Speaker 2>froze mine, but apparently most women don't even go back

0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 2>for them because they either don't decide they don't want

0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:51.520
<v Speaker 2>to have children or they feel pregnant naturally. It's just

0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:52.520
<v Speaker 2>like an insurance thing.

0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.600
<v Speaker 1>That's right. It's the peace of mind, isn't it. I

0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.640
<v Speaker 1>love everything that you've said, And as you say, there's

0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:04.240
<v Speaker 1>that sort of invisible line that seems to happen overnight.

0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:06.919
<v Speaker 1>I also love brookout you touched upon it there and

0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:09.560
<v Speaker 1>you write about it in the book that it is

0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:14.640
<v Speaker 1>also about not rushing into something with potentially the wrong

0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:19.640
<v Speaker 1>person because of that deadline. And I love where you say,

0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:22.960
<v Speaker 1>really we should be asking ourselves. Is this person the

0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:26.280
<v Speaker 1>person that I see myself raising a child with if

0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:31.160
<v Speaker 1>that's what you're wanting, but also if it doesn't work out,

0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:34.000
<v Speaker 1>Is this somebody that I see myself co parenting with?

0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:36.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I love that, and that's again I mean,

0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:39.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm obviously older than you, but that's not a conversation

0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:41.600
<v Speaker 1>that would have happened a couple of generations ago.

0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:46.639
<v Speaker 2>I think it's very pragmatic and not very romantic, but

0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:49.000
<v Speaker 2>it is quite realistic because you know all of the

0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:50.920
<v Speaker 2>stats to say this, and you know how many people

0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:53.840
<v Speaker 2>people get divorced now at a really high rate, And

0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:57.399
<v Speaker 2>I think there's some stat around like you know, half

0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:01.080
<v Speaker 2>babies born now will be raised by single parents or

0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:05.240
<v Speaker 2>co parents, And so even if if you're I don't know,

0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:09.159
<v Speaker 2>I just feel like it's wise to consider how people

0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:12.720
<v Speaker 2>would behave in that situation. Like if you can tell

0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:16.440
<v Speaker 2>someone's not going to be pleasant in that dynamic, then

0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:20.280
<v Speaker 2>maybe that's a sign that you, I don't know, shouldn't

0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:24.560
<v Speaker 2>be together or at least shouldn't be having children together. Yeah,

0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:30.440
<v Speaker 2>but I feel like it goes against my natural inclination

0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:32.399
<v Speaker 2>to be like a bit more of a romantic and

0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:35.800
<v Speaker 2>a bit more hopeful, but it is I think it's

0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:37.199
<v Speaker 2>wise to consider that stuff.

0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:41.800
<v Speaker 1>Brooke, you also write really candidly and resonated with me

0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:43.879
<v Speaker 1>and I'm sure also with a lot of other women

0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:49.159
<v Speaker 1>about body image and how beauty standards have shifted over time,

0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:53.000
<v Speaker 1>your relationship with your own body has shifted over time,

0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:58.040
<v Speaker 1>and then of course the impact of that national stage

0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:02.200
<v Speaker 1>and being on stage on Breakfast TV every morning. What's

0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:04.480
<v Speaker 1>your relationship like with your body now? And why I

0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:07.280
<v Speaker 1>was body image something that you I know I've spoken

0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:09.640
<v Speaker 1>about it before, but you wanted to address quite early

0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:10.399
<v Speaker 1>on in the book.

0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:16.080
<v Speaker 2>I think because it is so complicated and it's so nuanced,

0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:18.720
<v Speaker 2>and it felt like a book or a long essay

0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:21.080
<v Speaker 2>was a nice place to sort of unpack some of

0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:25.119
<v Speaker 2>the things around it. I think, you know, for a

0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:27.399
<v Speaker 2>long time, I was like a you know, one of

0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:29.680
<v Speaker 2>those women who was like, Oh, if only I could

0:24:29.680 --> 0:24:31.160
<v Speaker 2>be just like a little bit thinner, then I would

0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:34.000
<v Speaker 2>be like my life would be perfect. And you know,

0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:36.320
<v Speaker 2>as I sort of grew into my body a bit

0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:39.520
<v Speaker 2>more and I guess sort of became a bit more

0:24:39.760 --> 0:24:43.040
<v Speaker 2>comfortable with myself kind of all around, I was like,

0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:45.879
<v Speaker 2>oh no, actually, like this is fine, like you and

0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:48.360
<v Speaker 2>more than that, like I think one of my nieces

0:24:48.359 --> 0:24:53.240
<v Speaker 2>were born and i'd been through like the freezing process.

0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:55.399
<v Speaker 2>It really shifted the way that I thought about the

0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:58.160
<v Speaker 2>way that I look and the way that I feel

0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:01.240
<v Speaker 2>about how I look because one of my nieces looks

0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:04.440
<v Speaker 2>so similar to me, and I think she's so beautiful

0:25:04.520 --> 0:25:06.960
<v Speaker 2>She's the most precious little thing, and the thought of

0:25:07.000 --> 0:25:11.320
<v Speaker 2>her ever feeling bad about herself actually makes me feel sick,

0:25:11.359 --> 0:25:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Like even thinking of it makes me want to cry,

0:25:13.680 --> 0:25:17.119
<v Speaker 2>that she would feel anything but love for herself. And

0:25:17.160 --> 0:25:19.000
<v Speaker 2>then I was like, well, why shouldn't I should extend

0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:23.000
<v Speaker 2>that grace to myself? And like, how could I be

0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:28.600
<v Speaker 2>or like, have any sort of negative or anything other

0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:31.440
<v Speaker 2>than lovely to say about myself, Like, you know, my

0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:33.480
<v Speaker 2>mom and my nan and my aunties would think that

0:25:33.560 --> 0:25:36.760
<v Speaker 2>about me, so I should. I don't know, I should

0:25:36.800 --> 0:25:39.080
<v Speaker 2>feel that way about myself as well. And that's not

0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:41.080
<v Speaker 2>to say that I had like particularly low self esteem,

0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:42.399
<v Speaker 2>Like I think it was just sort of the normal

0:25:42.440 --> 0:25:45.520
<v Speaker 2>self criticism that anyone has, like, oh, you know, I

0:25:45.520 --> 0:25:46.800
<v Speaker 2>feel a bit chubby, so I'm not gonna wear a

0:25:46.800 --> 0:25:49.000
<v Speaker 2>bikini to the beach, or you know, I feel like

0:25:49.040 --> 0:25:51.720
<v Speaker 2>i've got cellults, I'm not gonna wear short shorts or something,

0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:55.520
<v Speaker 2>which is like, in hindsight, it's ridiculous when I see

0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:57.200
<v Speaker 2>photos of myself from when I was like eighteen or

0:25:57.280 --> 0:25:59.080
<v Speaker 2>nineteen now, I'm like, I should have been walking around

0:25:59.080 --> 0:26:01.320
<v Speaker 2>in a bikini all the time, wearing one to work,

0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:05.040
<v Speaker 2>even like that, you know, I wish that I and

0:26:05.080 --> 0:26:07.160
<v Speaker 2>everyone says this right like that you could go back

0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:11.359
<v Speaker 2>and be like, gosh, God, damn it, woman, like, don't

0:26:11.359 --> 0:26:14.399
<v Speaker 2>feel like that. I think that. The thing about the

0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:18.480
<v Speaker 2>egg freezing as well, was that for the first time

0:26:18.600 --> 0:26:25.080
<v Speaker 2>my body was something other than how it looked it was.

0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:29.439
<v Speaker 2>It was really useful and and I felt just so

0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:31.959
<v Speaker 2>wonderful sort of sitting in it and thinking about like,

0:26:32.400 --> 0:26:35.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, nourishing it and what it needed to be

0:26:35.080 --> 0:26:38.800
<v Speaker 2>able to like grow my you know, genetic contribution to

0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:42.520
<v Speaker 2>any baby that would come from the eggs. And it

0:26:42.760 --> 0:26:45.719
<v Speaker 2>was sort of feeling those those hormones and what they

0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:48.080
<v Speaker 2>were doing and seeing your body change because it change

0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:51.080
<v Speaker 2>is quite rapidly when you're doing egg freezing because they

0:26:51.080 --> 0:26:53.760
<v Speaker 2>have to sort of grow and make space in you Tommy.

0:26:54.280 --> 0:26:56.919
<v Speaker 2>So just to sort of see those changes happen and

0:26:56.960 --> 0:26:59.680
<v Speaker 2>feel them happen, you're like, oh, no, this is miracle,

0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:05.240
<v Speaker 2>this is wonderful. But at the same time, in seeing like, oh,

0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:07.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm mostly pretty comfortable with my body. If I could

0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:09.040
<v Speaker 2>just change a couple of things, or like I feel

0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:13.479
<v Speaker 2>pretty good or whatever. Seeing other friends sort of struggle

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:17.520
<v Speaker 2>with their weight or their idea of themselves that was

0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:20.680
<v Speaker 2>completely foreign to me. And I know that sounds really

0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:23.800
<v Speaker 2>privileged to say, because so many people do stuffer from

0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:27.560
<v Speaker 2>meeting disorders and aren't happy with themselves. But it's so

0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:31.680
<v Speaker 2>bizarre to me that someone could feel like a stranger

0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:34.000
<v Speaker 2>in their own body or not feel comfortable in their

0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:38.800
<v Speaker 2>own Like you live in it, you know, you can't

0:27:39.119 --> 0:27:41.320
<v Speaker 2>escape from it, and so then if you feel such

0:27:41.359 --> 0:27:43.879
<v Speaker 2>awful things about it, then you have to be in

0:27:44.000 --> 0:27:47.400
<v Speaker 2>that all the time. And I just have so much

0:27:47.440 --> 0:27:52.239
<v Speaker 2>sympathy for them, And I mean, I'm not even going

0:27:52.280 --> 0:27:53.920
<v Speaker 2>to say anything useful. I just wish it was different.

0:27:53.960 --> 0:27:55.280
<v Speaker 2>I wish there was something that I could say to

0:27:55.280 --> 0:27:57.439
<v Speaker 2>be like, no, but it looks so beautiful, like you

0:27:57.520 --> 0:27:58.360
<v Speaker 2>are so beautiful.

0:27:58.440 --> 0:28:02.639
<v Speaker 1>It's you know, I think, And I think sometimes even

0:28:04.040 --> 0:28:08.240
<v Speaker 1>just acknowledging that someone is living in that battle and

0:28:08.240 --> 0:28:11.600
<v Speaker 1>that perspective, as you have expressed there, that you're in

0:28:11.960 --> 0:28:14.760
<v Speaker 1>the body and you hate your body and you're at

0:28:14.840 --> 0:28:17.880
<v Speaker 1>war with your body, Like what is that to live?

0:28:18.119 --> 0:28:18.239
<v Speaker 2>Like?

0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:22.520
<v Speaker 1>I think just to even acknowledge that is important, because

0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:24.880
<v Speaker 1>that's sometimes all any of us can do when we

0:28:24.960 --> 0:28:30.440
<v Speaker 1>really don't understand someone else's lived experience. Brook. You reference

0:28:30.520 --> 0:28:33.720
<v Speaker 1>some research in the book which I really wanted to

0:28:33.720 --> 0:28:37.800
<v Speaker 1>talk to you about about our body image, and you say, interestingly,

0:28:37.880 --> 0:28:42.600
<v Speaker 1>despite the saturation of mainstream media white people and white bodies,

0:28:42.960 --> 0:28:46.880
<v Speaker 1>research from the UK based Mental Health Foundation shows that

0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:50.760
<v Speaker 1>black people have a healthier relationship with their bodies than

0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:55.920
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the population. Was that surprising research to you?

0:28:56.160 --> 0:28:59.360
<v Speaker 1>That's really fascinating research. I certainly found that as a

0:28:59.360 --> 0:28:59.880
<v Speaker 1>white woman.

0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:04.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I thought it was interesting too, because my thought was, oh,

0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:07.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, as is the case with most like mental

0:29:07.320 --> 0:29:10.200
<v Speaker 2>health issues or other sort of health concerns, I thought

0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:12.920
<v Speaker 2>that there would be it would be a big issue

0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:15.360
<v Speaker 2>for women of color and men of color. But then

0:29:15.520 --> 0:29:17.520
<v Speaker 2>when I found that study, and I don't have it

0:29:17.520 --> 0:29:19.480
<v Speaker 2>in front of me, so I can't reference the exact figures,

0:29:19.640 --> 0:29:21.440
<v Speaker 2>but I'll just give you the gist of it. I

0:29:21.440 --> 0:29:24.760
<v Speaker 2>think because of the proliferation of images of people like

0:29:24.840 --> 0:29:28.200
<v Speaker 2>Kim Kardashian or others, where you know, being curvy is

0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:33.640
<v Speaker 2>popular again. You know, it's sort of something to aspire to. You.

0:29:33.680 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 2>People are getting bibls and things like that, and breasting

0:29:36.680 --> 0:29:41.680
<v Speaker 2>plants that their idea of themselves because they sort of

0:29:41.720 --> 0:29:45.560
<v Speaker 2>fit outside of what the sort of norm is. So

0:29:45.560 --> 0:29:49.080
<v Speaker 2>so like Kate Moss or or Nicole Ritchie or whatever,

0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:52.680
<v Speaker 2>those sorts of things didn't apply to them, like those

0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:56.000
<v Speaker 2>sorts of rules or those sorts of like strict guidelines

0:29:56.040 --> 0:29:59.719
<v Speaker 2>of what's acceptable and what's not didn't apply. And so

0:29:59.840 --> 0:30:03.680
<v Speaker 2>that that was my read of it. It was interesting

0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:07.280
<v Speaker 2>because sometimes I like, I feel like, even though I'm

0:30:07.400 --> 0:30:11.600
<v Speaker 2>quite thin, like I still have like curves, And sometimes

0:30:11.640 --> 0:30:13.720
<v Speaker 2>if I see someone who has like an excellent body

0:30:13.920 --> 0:30:18.160
<v Speaker 2>that's like quite muscular and like thin or whatever, and

0:30:18.240 --> 0:30:21.800
<v Speaker 2>I think, like, oh, you know, I've got a big bump,

0:30:21.880 --> 0:30:23.560
<v Speaker 2>Like I've always had a big bum, So I don't

0:30:23.800 --> 0:30:25.959
<v Speaker 2>have to feel jealous or I don't have to compare

0:30:26.000 --> 0:30:29.240
<v Speaker 2>myself to that because we're so different. Does that make sense?

0:30:30.000 --> 0:30:33.880
<v Speaker 1>It really does make sense. And the reason I wanted

0:30:33.880 --> 0:30:36.080
<v Speaker 1>to ask you about it was because, as you said,

0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:43.600
<v Speaker 1>you often see research and you regretfully think, well, unfortunately

0:30:43.680 --> 0:30:48.280
<v Speaker 1>women of color are going to over index in an

0:30:48.360 --> 0:30:52.000
<v Speaker 1>area of disadvantage because that so many times, of course,

0:30:52.000 --> 0:30:55.080
<v Speaker 1>he is what the reality is and what the facts

0:30:55.120 --> 0:30:58.520
<v Speaker 1>bear that out, And anytime there is something like that,

0:30:58.640 --> 0:31:01.360
<v Speaker 1>I think it's always great to illuminate it, and I

0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:04.600
<v Speaker 1>love that you've included in the book, and I think, yeah,

0:31:04.640 --> 0:31:08.719
<v Speaker 1>that's I think a really fascinating insight into why that

0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:09.280
<v Speaker 1>might be.

0:31:10.080 --> 0:31:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Can I ask you, I wonder if there are verse

0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:15.160
<v Speaker 2>is true, like do you see someone like Kim Kardashian

0:31:15.600 --> 0:31:18.680
<v Speaker 2>or like a woman of color, see someone like Scissa

0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:22.360
<v Speaker 2>Even and think, oh, she looks amazing, But I don't

0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:24.880
<v Speaker 2>have to compare myself to her because I'm different.

0:31:26.200 --> 0:31:32.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's such a good question. You know what I

0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:36.800
<v Speaker 1>I think I might. I can honestly say to this second,

0:31:36.880 --> 0:31:41.560
<v Speaker 1>I've never consciously thought that about body image, but I

0:31:41.600 --> 0:31:45.000
<v Speaker 1>have thought it about other aspects. So I'll give you

0:31:45.040 --> 0:31:49.959
<v Speaker 1>an example is aging. And there's so much pressure on

0:31:50.080 --> 0:31:53.520
<v Speaker 1>women when it comes to aging. And I will often

0:31:54.080 --> 0:31:57.640
<v Speaker 1>look at I'm a white woman and another white woman

0:31:57.680 --> 0:32:00.520
<v Speaker 1>and there's a bit of an you know, they might

0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:04.240
<v Speaker 1>make me think, oh, gosh, like, why don't I look

0:32:04.320 --> 0:32:07.720
<v Speaker 1>like that? Whereas I think, because I find off on

0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:11.640
<v Speaker 1>women of color, it's almost it's just beyond my capacity

0:32:11.680 --> 0:32:15.320
<v Speaker 1>to compare, because it's just not something I could ever emulate.

0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:18.640
<v Speaker 1>I think. So, yes, now that you say that, you're right.

0:32:18.640 --> 0:32:20.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's funny. Isn't it. I think the aging thing

0:32:20.720 --> 0:32:25.160
<v Speaker 2>is interesting because we like I guess it's a skin

0:32:25.280 --> 0:32:27.360
<v Speaker 2>thing or I don't know, like it's a genetic thing.

0:32:28.160 --> 0:32:29.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's obviously that saying.

0:32:29.760 --> 0:32:30.200
<v Speaker 1>But like.

0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:34.880
<v Speaker 2>It's when I look at like my mum's skin or whatever,

0:32:35.120 --> 0:32:37.800
<v Speaker 2>or my nan skin and they've got like this incredible

0:32:37.840 --> 0:32:41.040
<v Speaker 2>skin with like hardly any wrinkles, I think, Oh my gosh,

0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:44.320
<v Speaker 2>I hope that I inherit that, like, please, please, please please,

0:32:45.000 --> 0:32:47.240
<v Speaker 2>not just intergenerational trauma. Please can I have it?

0:32:47.320 --> 0:32:51.560
<v Speaker 1>That's that's right. You got to inherit like the whole

0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:54.520
<v Speaker 1>the whole thing. Brook. I wanted to ask about a

0:32:54.560 --> 0:32:57.680
<v Speaker 1>really powerful question that you pose in the book on

0:32:58.080 --> 0:33:02.280
<v Speaker 1>the conversation around you say, does it make you a

0:33:02.320 --> 0:33:05.360
<v Speaker 1>bit of a sicko to be able to endure racism?

0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Because you can see that there is broader benefit to it,

0:33:09.120 --> 0:33:14.120
<v Speaker 1>both individually and for the community, and obviously in the

0:33:14.160 --> 0:33:16.520
<v Speaker 1>context of where you're writing about that in the book.

0:33:16.600 --> 0:33:20.480
<v Speaker 1>This is something I've actually discussed on this podcast before

0:33:21.360 --> 0:33:26.760
<v Speaker 1>with well a former Breakfast TV compatriot of yours, Tony Armstrong,

0:33:27.000 --> 0:33:32.400
<v Speaker 1>who writes a lovely testimonial for the book and regular

0:33:32.440 --> 0:33:35.200
<v Speaker 1>listeners of this show would know. I was asking about

0:33:35.240 --> 0:33:39.040
<v Speaker 1>the balance between knowing the power of being a really

0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:41.600
<v Speaker 1>positive role model just by being there, in the power

0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:46.000
<v Speaker 1>of representation, but also the fact that it brings we've

0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:49.000
<v Speaker 1>seen for you, Brooke, that it also brings a scrutiny,

0:33:49.280 --> 0:33:52.080
<v Speaker 1>a level of vitriol. I mean, a level of let's

0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:57.160
<v Speaker 1>face it, just really awful racism leveled at you. I

0:33:57.240 --> 0:33:59.920
<v Speaker 1>love the way you've expressed it in this notion that

0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:02.000
<v Speaker 1>am I a bit of a sec to be able

0:34:02.040 --> 0:34:04.680
<v Speaker 1>to put myself through this, but knowing that I'm also

0:34:05.480 --> 0:34:08.959
<v Speaker 1>helping if I am here and I'm representing.

0:34:10.280 --> 0:34:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's weird because at first I thought, you know,

0:34:14.040 --> 0:34:17.360
<v Speaker 2>this is this isn't like noble and it's really important,

0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:20.000
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I want to be able to share

0:34:20.040 --> 0:34:22.080
<v Speaker 2>our stories and it's important for me to be able

0:34:22.080 --> 0:34:25.520
<v Speaker 2>to express a perspective that isn't especially sort of when

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:28.279
<v Speaker 2>I first came through not just the Today Show, but

0:34:28.320 --> 0:34:32.120
<v Speaker 2>on Triple J. You know, it was expressing perspectives that

0:34:32.160 --> 0:34:35.319
<v Speaker 2>people really hadn't been exposed to before, even when I

0:34:35.360 --> 0:34:37.839
<v Speaker 2>was in Canberra actually in the press gallery. I think

0:34:37.880 --> 0:34:40.120
<v Speaker 2>it was the first time that someone had been on

0:34:40.280 --> 0:34:45.400
<v Speaker 2>the on the campaign trail. So a lot of the

0:34:45.440 --> 0:34:47.800
<v Speaker 2>time when I was going into these places, it was like, oh,

0:34:47.840 --> 0:34:50.359
<v Speaker 2>this is important. This feels like something I need to do,

0:34:51.160 --> 0:34:53.880
<v Speaker 2>not just for myself, but for those who sort of

0:34:53.880 --> 0:34:56.520
<v Speaker 2>come after me, and you know, for everyone else, for

0:34:56.520 --> 0:34:58.520
<v Speaker 2>the benefit of Australia as well, Like it's important for

0:34:58.600 --> 0:35:03.120
<v Speaker 2>us to be able to have those conversations. But over time,

0:35:03.520 --> 0:35:06.960
<v Speaker 2>and I think like with the rise of social media,

0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:10.239
<v Speaker 2>it became sort of harder and harder to do in

0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:13.640
<v Speaker 2>a way that felt like I was striking a balance

0:35:13.680 --> 0:35:17.960
<v Speaker 2>that felt genuine you know, where I was genuinely having

0:35:17.960 --> 0:35:21.960
<v Speaker 2>an impact in any kind of conversation, and you know,

0:35:22.320 --> 0:35:24.920
<v Speaker 2>you sort of measured that against how much backlash you

0:35:24.960 --> 0:35:27.759
<v Speaker 2>got on things. So remember the first week that I

0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:30.840
<v Speaker 2>was on the Today Show was when I talked about

0:35:31.680 --> 0:35:34.680
<v Speaker 2>how we celebrate the twenty sixth of January, and you

0:35:34.680 --> 0:35:36.560
<v Speaker 2>know how I kind of didn't really want to do it.

0:35:37.239 --> 0:35:39.920
<v Speaker 2>And I learned really quickly that there are so many

0:35:39.960 --> 0:35:44.839
<v Speaker 2>people who want to deliberately misinterpret things that you say

0:35:45.440 --> 0:35:49.560
<v Speaker 2>because they don't like you well, you know, they don't

0:35:49.560 --> 0:35:53.120
<v Speaker 2>want to understand you. And more than that that there

0:35:53.160 --> 0:35:55.399
<v Speaker 2>are so many people who don't fully engage and sort

0:35:55.400 --> 0:35:57.439
<v Speaker 2>of just get the top line like, oh you don't

0:35:57.480 --> 0:36:00.120
<v Speaker 2>like Australiada, that must mean that you think this. So

0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:05.320
<v Speaker 2>then you get really like quickly categorized and it takes

0:36:06.480 --> 0:36:10.239
<v Speaker 2>you know a lot to sort of develop a fuller

0:36:10.280 --> 0:36:12.400
<v Speaker 2>picture for people to develop a fuller picture of you.

0:36:13.560 --> 0:36:16.080
<v Speaker 2>And so after a while, I was like, I don't

0:36:16.160 --> 0:36:20.160
<v Speaker 2>know that the balance is there for me anymore. You know,

0:36:20.200 --> 0:36:24.400
<v Speaker 2>if it's kind of stacks up like this, if this

0:36:24.480 --> 0:36:26.200
<v Speaker 2>is the reason that I'm doing this, you know, to

0:36:26.560 --> 0:36:30.200
<v Speaker 2>share our perspective, but then this other part hurts so much,

0:36:30.360 --> 0:36:34.799
<v Speaker 2>like this is this is not healthy, Like I don't

0:36:34.840 --> 0:36:38.120
<v Speaker 2>know that this is worth it for me anymore. And

0:36:39.960 --> 0:36:42.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, like, you know, I love TV and

0:36:42.560 --> 0:36:45.799
<v Speaker 2>I especially love live TV, so maybe it would be

0:36:45.840 --> 0:36:49.319
<v Speaker 2>something that I kind of come back to. But I

0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:54.719
<v Speaker 2>think there has to be some sort of what you're

0:36:54.760 --> 0:36:58.000
<v Speaker 2>doing is worth it for the amount of things that

0:36:58.000 --> 0:36:59.239
<v Speaker 2>are coming back in, Like it has to be some

0:36:59.280 --> 0:37:01.279
<v Speaker 2>sort of energy trade off or something to get a

0:37:01.280 --> 0:37:05.200
<v Speaker 2>bit woo woo. And for me it kind of felt

0:37:05.239 --> 0:37:07.040
<v Speaker 2>a bit of kilter. But I think it would be

0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:09.120
<v Speaker 2>the same for women, right, Like if you're the only

0:37:09.160 --> 0:37:12.239
<v Speaker 2>woman in a boardroom, or if you're the only woman

0:37:12.320 --> 0:37:15.800
<v Speaker 2>in like a senior management position and you think, oh gosh,

0:37:15.840 --> 0:37:18.239
<v Speaker 2>like I'm having an awful time because of you know,

0:37:18.800 --> 0:37:21.279
<v Speaker 2>these reasons. But it's important for other young women to

0:37:21.280 --> 0:37:22.840
<v Speaker 2>see me here and for me to be able to

0:37:22.880 --> 0:37:25.800
<v Speaker 2>represent them and to make decisions that reflect their best interests.

0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:28.560
<v Speaker 2>At a certain point, you'd be like, I don't know

0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:30.719
<v Speaker 2>if this is helping them as much as it's hurting.

0:37:30.520 --> 0:37:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Me completely, I mean, broke. It makes me sad to

0:37:35.600 --> 0:37:39.719
<v Speaker 1>hear that the that it did take a toll where

0:37:39.719 --> 0:37:43.200
<v Speaker 1>the balance skewed a certain way. And I wanted to

0:37:43.239 --> 0:37:48.400
<v Speaker 1>ask because again, you cite some really interesting research in

0:37:48.440 --> 0:37:51.120
<v Speaker 1>the book where you talk about the fact that in

0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:54.840
<v Speaker 1>terms of media, your former industry, my car and industry,

0:37:55.160 --> 0:38:00.360
<v Speaker 1>that we are actually getting pretty good representation, particularly among

0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:04.000
<v Speaker 1>First Nations people in broadcasting, in terms of cadets and

0:38:04.080 --> 0:38:08.879
<v Speaker 1>coming into the industry. But I'll quote you here. We'll

0:38:08.920 --> 0:38:12.719
<v Speaker 1>see that there's no problem finding talent, the problem is

0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:18.000
<v Speaker 1>in retaining it. Your story would appear to be exhibit A.

0:38:19.000 --> 0:38:21.080
<v Speaker 1>Can I ask you a little bit about that?

0:38:22.200 --> 0:38:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, of course, Like I haven't read the report

0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:27.399
<v Speaker 2>from the ABC. I just sort of got the gist

0:38:27.400 --> 0:38:30.080
<v Speaker 2>of it from some friends and saw, you know, what

0:38:30.120 --> 0:38:32.560
<v Speaker 2>the headlines were and what the media reportage was around it.

0:38:33.160 --> 0:38:36.520
<v Speaker 2>And I think, if I can remember rightly, the part

0:38:36.520 --> 0:38:39.600
<v Speaker 2>that I'm referencing in that particular part is that every

0:38:39.680 --> 0:38:44.600
<v Speaker 2>year they have Indigenous cadets, and it took so long

0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:46.480
<v Speaker 2>for any of them to sort of make it to

0:38:46.560 --> 0:38:54.359
<v Speaker 2>any significant sort of on air role. And I don't

0:38:54.360 --> 0:38:57.919
<v Speaker 2>think that that's an issue with the talent. I think

0:38:57.920 --> 0:39:00.120
<v Speaker 2>it's I think it's an issue with the opportunities that

0:39:00.160 --> 0:39:02.719
<v Speaker 2>are being given and the support that's given. And you know,

0:39:02.800 --> 0:39:08.080
<v Speaker 2>having worked there and having seen the report and what

0:39:08.120 --> 0:39:09.719
<v Speaker 2>people said, I think that there were only maybe a

0:39:09.760 --> 0:39:12.160
<v Speaker 2>couple of people who hadn't experienced some sort of racism

0:39:12.239 --> 0:39:14.400
<v Speaker 2>while they were working there. And look, I don't want

0:39:14.400 --> 0:39:16.239
<v Speaker 2>to lay the boot into the ABC because it is.

0:39:16.360 --> 0:39:18.319
<v Speaker 2>It's a wonderful place for a lot of reasons, but

0:39:18.760 --> 0:39:20.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, there are some challenges like their own in

0:39:20.560 --> 0:39:26.279
<v Speaker 2>any workplace. I think I'm so glad that there are

0:39:26.560 --> 0:39:29.520
<v Speaker 2>more of us now than there ever have been before.

0:39:30.000 --> 0:39:32.839
<v Speaker 2>If I've played any small role in that in any way,

0:39:32.880 --> 0:39:34.520
<v Speaker 2>then I feel incredibly proud.

0:39:34.560 --> 0:39:34.839
<v Speaker 1>Of that.

0:39:34.920 --> 0:39:39.080
<v Speaker 2>You know, even the Beurlow put me on the Today

0:39:39.120 --> 0:39:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Show when that had never been done before, that felt

0:39:42.520 --> 0:39:45.920
<v Speaker 2>like it felt like something that would never ever happen,

0:39:46.600 --> 0:39:48.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, like an aboriginal person on the Today Show.

0:39:48.760 --> 0:39:53.719
<v Speaker 2>That's wild. And then you know, then Channelton did it,

0:39:53.800 --> 0:39:56.319
<v Speaker 2>and then ABC did it, and all of a sudden,

0:39:56.360 --> 0:39:57.759
<v Speaker 2>it was like a normal thing for them to be

0:39:57.800 --> 0:40:00.440
<v Speaker 2>a person of color on a show in that time slot,

0:40:00.560 --> 0:40:03.719
<v Speaker 2>whereas before it has sort of been like that, you know,

0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:06.080
<v Speaker 2>a bizarre thing to do. Like I remember when they

0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:10.240
<v Speaker 2>first first named me and there was always press around

0:40:10.280 --> 0:40:13.040
<v Speaker 2>it and everyone was like wow, like this is such

0:40:13.040 --> 0:40:14.680
<v Speaker 2>a big deal. And when I explain it to people

0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:17.360
<v Speaker 2>in an international context, like if I explain that to

0:40:17.360 --> 0:40:21.840
<v Speaker 2>someone of here, like what, there have only been white people?

0:40:23.239 --> 0:40:24.160
<v Speaker 2>That's so weird.

0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:25.200
<v Speaker 1>It's crazy.

0:40:25.360 --> 0:40:28.480
<v Speaker 2>Do you realize when you remove yourself from the situation,

0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:30.480
<v Speaker 2>you're like, yeah, I mean, I guess that is a

0:40:30.520 --> 0:40:34.680
<v Speaker 2>bit weird when you put it like that, And yeah,

0:40:34.719 --> 0:40:37.560
<v Speaker 2>I think what I really want to express is that

0:40:40.120 --> 0:40:43.680
<v Speaker 2>the talent is there, and you know, we're really good

0:40:43.719 --> 0:40:46.160
<v Speaker 2>at recruiting them, we're really good at finding them, but

0:40:46.200 --> 0:40:48.000
<v Speaker 2>we need to just like be able to hold onto them.

0:40:48.080 --> 0:40:51.040
<v Speaker 2>And I think that part of that challenge is, you know,

0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:53.279
<v Speaker 2>mitigating some of the worst of it, like you know,

0:40:53.360 --> 0:40:56.759
<v Speaker 2>what we were talking about before, which is challenging in

0:40:56.800 --> 0:40:59.600
<v Speaker 2>a contemporary context, because how do you know, how do

0:40:59.640 --> 0:41:02.120
<v Speaker 2>you police social media? How do you police trolls? It's

0:41:02.160 --> 0:41:04.200
<v Speaker 2>like a question that none of us really have the

0:41:04.239 --> 0:41:07.480
<v Speaker 2>answer to. But there are things that make it easier.

0:41:07.520 --> 0:41:09.359
<v Speaker 2>And I think the things that make it easier are

0:41:09.360 --> 0:41:10.759
<v Speaker 2>things that we sort of did well on the Today

0:41:10.840 --> 0:41:12.759
<v Speaker 2>Show and I was really well supported, and I had

0:41:12.760 --> 0:41:15.840
<v Speaker 2>the support of my colleagues and the unwavering support of

0:41:15.840 --> 0:41:20.960
<v Speaker 2>my boss, and those things do make it easier. I

0:41:20.960 --> 0:41:23.200
<v Speaker 2>think we've kind of all got a lot of work

0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:26.760
<v Speaker 2>to do in how we work in that space, and

0:41:26.840 --> 0:41:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of those programs are being rolled

0:41:29.040 --> 0:41:31.719
<v Speaker 2>back in different parts of the world, which might make

0:41:31.760 --> 0:41:35.160
<v Speaker 2>it more challenging. I don't know. We've certainly had a

0:41:35.200 --> 0:41:37.600
<v Speaker 2>lot more work ahead of us in the coming years

0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:38.120
<v Speaker 2>and decades.

0:41:38.160 --> 0:41:42.239
<v Speaker 1>I think it is so wonderful to think, you know,

0:41:42.280 --> 0:41:45.759
<v Speaker 1>how many people would have woken up every day and

0:41:45.960 --> 0:41:50.680
<v Speaker 1>seen themselves reflected back in some way. That everyone should

0:41:50.800 --> 0:41:54.520
<v Speaker 1>have the right to take that For granted, wherever you

0:41:54.560 --> 0:41:57.880
<v Speaker 1>have come from, whatever wherever you live, whatever your family,

0:41:57.920 --> 0:42:01.960
<v Speaker 1>whatever industry, your parents, it's working, whatever your experience. So

0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:04.800
<v Speaker 1>we would think in Australia in the twenty first century

0:42:05.080 --> 0:42:08.000
<v Speaker 1>that everyone could see themselves reflected back to them in

0:42:08.040 --> 0:42:13.120
<v Speaker 1>their mainstream media. And the power of that is so unbelievable,

0:42:13.120 --> 0:42:15.080
<v Speaker 1>because Brook, I can only imagine what it would have

0:42:15.360 --> 0:42:19.800
<v Speaker 1>potentially meant to you to be a young girl and

0:42:20.560 --> 0:42:24.640
<v Speaker 1>see yourself reflected back to you in mainstream media a

0:42:24.680 --> 0:42:26.360
<v Speaker 1>lot more than was happening at the time.

0:42:27.560 --> 0:42:30.480
<v Speaker 2>I remember, you know, when I was younger, that there

0:42:30.520 --> 0:42:33.600
<v Speaker 2>never even used to be Aboriginal people like in TV

0:42:33.719 --> 0:42:38.600
<v Speaker 2>ads or in magazines. There was no representation whatsoever. And

0:42:38.920 --> 0:42:40.719
<v Speaker 2>I know that it seems kind of try it or

0:42:40.719 --> 0:42:44.000
<v Speaker 2>trivial or whatever to say like it's important for us

0:42:44.000 --> 0:42:46.560
<v Speaker 2>to see ourselves reflected back. But if we like flip

0:42:46.640 --> 0:42:50.000
<v Speaker 2>that the inverse is that if you don't see yourself

0:42:50.040 --> 0:42:53.200
<v Speaker 2>reflected back, or if there is only a certain group

0:42:53.200 --> 0:42:57.400
<v Speaker 2>of people reflected in our mainstream media, or you know,

0:42:57.400 --> 0:42:59.120
<v Speaker 2>the way that we see ourselves, that means that there

0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:03.239
<v Speaker 2>are large sways that are invisible, or that you know

0:43:03.280 --> 0:43:08.799
<v Speaker 2>that we don't think exist, and for Indigenous people, you know,

0:43:09.080 --> 0:43:12.319
<v Speaker 2>given the challenges that we've faced in the first couple

0:43:12.360 --> 0:43:15.120
<v Speaker 2>of hundred years, I think to not exist or to

0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:17.640
<v Speaker 2>not be represented in that way it cuts deeply. But

0:43:17.719 --> 0:43:19.799
<v Speaker 2>it cuts in a different way because it's it's a

0:43:19.800 --> 0:43:22.400
<v Speaker 2>bit of a rasure or it's a bit of denying

0:43:22.440 --> 0:43:24.239
<v Speaker 2>that you you know, you have a right to be

0:43:24.280 --> 0:43:26.680
<v Speaker 2>here or that your place is in this country. And

0:43:26.719 --> 0:43:28.719
<v Speaker 2>so it means more than just being like, oh, yeah,

0:43:28.760 --> 0:43:31.640
<v Speaker 2>for this magazine spread or for this TV show, we

0:43:31.680 --> 0:43:34.200
<v Speaker 2>need to have a balance of brunettes, people with dark skin,

0:43:34.239 --> 0:43:36.279
<v Speaker 2>people with light skin, because I know that some of

0:43:36.280 --> 0:43:37.959
<v Speaker 2>it kind of feels like that now, and it feels

0:43:38.000 --> 0:43:39.480
<v Speaker 2>like that to me even I'm like, oh yep, tick

0:43:39.560 --> 0:43:41.680
<v Speaker 2>tick tick, We've got all of you know, the things

0:43:41.719 --> 0:43:45.120
<v Speaker 2>going on here. But that's the reason that it's important,

0:43:45.120 --> 0:43:48.640
<v Speaker 2>because if we don't have it, it says to young people,

0:43:48.640 --> 0:43:50.560
<v Speaker 2>and it says to all of us, like, this is

0:43:50.560 --> 0:43:52.279
<v Speaker 2>who we are, this is what we look like. The

0:43:52.280 --> 0:43:54.480
<v Speaker 2>ones that aren't here, they're not represented, they're not actually

0:43:54.520 --> 0:43:58.520
<v Speaker 2>a part of us, and they're they're not only not

0:43:58.560 --> 0:44:02.840
<v Speaker 2>included in conversations, but they are they don't even.

0:44:02.719 --> 0:44:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Exist exactly so well said before I let you go,

0:44:07.840 --> 0:44:11.480
<v Speaker 1>I would love to ask you what you think the

0:44:11.520 --> 0:44:15.200
<v Speaker 1>future might bring for you professionally. As you said, you're

0:44:15.280 --> 0:44:18.880
<v Speaker 1>not ruling out maybe going back to the media, But

0:44:18.920 --> 0:44:22.640
<v Speaker 1>when you finish up at Oxford University, what do you

0:44:22.719 --> 0:44:25.880
<v Speaker 1>think we might see Brooke Bony do next.

0:44:26.800 --> 0:44:29.640
<v Speaker 2>I really don't know. And I say this like hand

0:44:29.680 --> 0:44:31.760
<v Speaker 2>on Hart. I don't have some sort of like secret

0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:33.360
<v Speaker 2>plan and I'm going to come back and pop up

0:44:33.360 --> 0:44:36.400
<v Speaker 2>on another show because people always do that. I swear,

0:44:37.280 --> 0:44:40.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't have any plans. There's no sort of secret thing.

0:44:41.160 --> 0:44:44.480
<v Speaker 2>I loved writing this book so much. I loved it,

0:44:44.560 --> 0:44:49.880
<v Speaker 2>so I would love to do another one. I don't

0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:52.600
<v Speaker 2>have any plans, but I mean I love to study.

0:44:53.239 --> 0:44:55.440
<v Speaker 2>The studying is really amazing. I mean, I know I've

0:44:55.440 --> 0:44:57.640
<v Speaker 2>got exams next week, and when I have to do

0:44:57.680 --> 0:45:00.400
<v Speaker 2>my economics exam, I probably won't think this, but the

0:45:00.960 --> 0:45:03.600
<v Speaker 2>academia is so wonderful. To be able to use your

0:45:03.600 --> 0:45:06.320
<v Speaker 2>brain in a way that you know you never have before,

0:45:06.400 --> 0:45:09.640
<v Speaker 2>to stretch yourself like that is it's such a privilege.

0:45:10.080 --> 0:45:13.040
<v Speaker 2>So I don't I really don't know. If you hear

0:45:13.040 --> 0:45:14.040
<v Speaker 2>of anything good, let me know.

0:45:14.480 --> 0:45:17.080
<v Speaker 1>Well, well, you are coming home to do a book

0:45:17.120 --> 0:45:19.560
<v Speaker 1>tour for all of it, so you know, you never know.

0:45:19.640 --> 0:45:23.279
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you might get a phone call one morning going, okay, Brooke,

0:45:23.560 --> 0:45:26.560
<v Speaker 1>Sarah Arbo has woken up with the flu. Can you

0:45:26.680 --> 0:45:30.359
<v Speaker 1>just come in Carl's hoping you can come sit alongside him,

0:45:30.400 --> 0:45:32.160
<v Speaker 1>so you know you never know, do you?

0:45:33.000 --> 0:45:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely not? Absolutely not. I'll be like Berla, you are

0:45:37.560 --> 0:45:39.279
<v Speaker 2>dreaming if you think I'm going to wake up at

0:45:39.320 --> 0:45:42.200
<v Speaker 2>quarter past three while in one my holidays. Absolutely not.

0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:44.759
<v Speaker 1>Brook's going to have a phone on mute and she's

0:45:44.800 --> 0:45:46.440
<v Speaker 1>not even going to hear that call.

0:45:47.200 --> 0:45:48.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, Brooke.

0:45:48.760 --> 0:45:54.040
<v Speaker 1>Congratulations on the book. It is really fantastic Brooks memoir,

0:45:54.239 --> 0:45:56.759
<v Speaker 1>all of it. It's available via the link in our

0:45:56.800 --> 0:45:58.600
<v Speaker 1>show notes, and of course you can find it at

0:45:58.600 --> 0:46:02.000
<v Speaker 1>your local bookstore. Some people still go to bookstores and

0:46:02.040 --> 0:46:03.080
<v Speaker 1>we love them for that.

0:46:04.000 --> 0:46:06.879
<v Speaker 2>Yes, thank you so nice to chat to you, Sarah.

0:46:06.960 --> 0:46:08.719
<v Speaker 1>You can find a link in our show notes if

0:46:08.719 --> 0:46:11.480
<v Speaker 1>you'd like to watch this interview with Brooke on YouTube.

0:46:11.920 --> 0:46:14.880
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for joining me today. If you've enjoyed this episode,

0:46:15.040 --> 0:46:17.560
<v Speaker 1>let us know and leave a review and make sure

0:46:17.560 --> 0:46:20.040
<v Speaker 1>you're following something to talk about because We'll be back

0:46:20.080 --> 0:46:22.399
<v Speaker 1>with another exclusive guest next week.