1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,350 Sean Aylmer : Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,530 Sean Aylmer : It's a big week for the economy with the release 3 00:00:08,530 --> 00:00:11,920 Sean Aylmer : of the CPI data for the September quarter yesterday. The 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,500 Sean Aylmer : Consumer Price Index measures household inflation, and on the Reserve 5 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:19,390 Sean Aylmer : Bank's preferred measure, it rose 0.7% for the quarter to 6 00:00:19,390 --> 00:00:23,790 Sean Aylmer : put annual underlying inflation at 2.1%. Now, the Reserve Bank 7 00:00:23,790 --> 00:00:27,870 Sean Aylmer : generally targets between 2 and 3% for underlying inflation, which 8 00:00:27,870 --> 00:00:30,300 Sean Aylmer : means it's back in that range for the first time 9 00:00:30,300 --> 00:00:33,580 Sean Aylmer : in several years. Diana Mousina is the Senior Economist at 10 00:00:34,220 --> 00:00:36,570 Sean Aylmer : AMP Capital. Diana, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 11 00:00:36,930 --> 00:00:37,740 Diana Mousina: Thanks for having me on. 12 00:00:38,010 --> 00:00:40,209 Sean Aylmer : So, what did the data say first up? 13 00:00:40,690 --> 00:00:43,150 Diana Mousina: I think the best way to look at the figures 14 00:00:43,150 --> 00:00:46,229 Diana Mousina: is to look at the trimmed mean, which is the 15 00:00:46,229 --> 00:00:50,309 Diana Mousina: RBAs preferred measure of inflation. It takes out a lot 16 00:00:50,310 --> 00:00:54,040 Diana Mousina: of the outliers which may happen, so large price rises 17 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,660 Diana Mousina: or large price falls, and that showed an increase of 0.7% 18 00:00:58,770 --> 00:01:01,480 Diana Mousina: in the September quarter. That was higher than expectations, which 19 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,560 Diana Mousina: were centred around 0.5 and, as you said, that has 20 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,280 Diana Mousina: now put annual inflation into the RBAs target band. It's 21 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,740 Diana Mousina: now running at 2.1% over the year. That's the highest 22 00:01:11,740 --> 00:01:15,980 Diana Mousina: annual rate of that underlying measure of inflation since 2015. 23 00:01:16,270 --> 00:01:20,569 Diana Mousina: So clearly, when moving into a higher inflationary environment, that's 24 00:01:20,569 --> 00:01:23,770 Diana Mousina: not necessarily a bad thing. The Reserve Bank in Australia 25 00:01:23,810 --> 00:01:26,490 Diana Mousina: and in a lot of the other parts of the world, the 26 00:01:26,490 --> 00:01:29,720 Diana Mousina: central banks there, have been trying to engineer a higher 27 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,870 Diana Mousina: inflation environment over the majority of the last decade, if 28 00:01:33,870 --> 00:01:34,870 Diana Mousina: not even more than that. 29 00:01:35,610 --> 00:01:38,569 Sean Aylmer : So, was the number what you expected or was it 30 00:01:38,569 --> 00:01:39,970 Sean Aylmer : higher than what people expected? 31 00:01:40,330 --> 00:01:43,839 Diana Mousina: The underlying number was higher than what we were expecting. 32 00:01:44,970 --> 00:01:48,060 Diana Mousina: It really just means that the price pressures that you 33 00:01:48,060 --> 00:01:51,940 Diana Mousina: see in some of the categories for the consumer baskets 34 00:01:51,940 --> 00:01:56,010 Diana Mousina: are quite broad based. We're now seeing that the supply 35 00:01:56,010 --> 00:02:00,140 Diana Mousina: issues that have come about from COVID, which are putting 36 00:02:00,140 --> 00:02:05,900 Diana Mousina: upward pressure on goods production prices, manufacturing costs, and on 37 00:02:05,900 --> 00:02:11,000 Diana Mousina: global trade, they've now filtered through into prices for furnishings, 38 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,170 Diana Mousina: for household goods, for audio and visual goods, in transport, 39 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,590 Diana Mousina: in housing, in construction costs. So you can see that 40 00:02:18,590 --> 00:02:21,650 Diana Mousina: it's filtering through to a lot of different parts of 41 00:02:21,650 --> 00:02:25,950 Diana Mousina: the consumer basket, which means that price pressures are quite broad. 42 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,950 Diana Mousina: That is, I suppose, what could be a potential concern 43 00:02:30,950 --> 00:02:33,810 Diana Mousina: for the central banks. They don't want to see inflation getting 44 00:02:33,810 --> 00:02:36,380 Diana Mousina: higher too quickly. They do want to engineer and higher 45 00:02:36,380 --> 00:02:39,470 Diana Mousina: inflation environment, but not to the point where annual inflation 46 00:02:39,470 --> 00:02:43,120 Diana Mousina: is running at well over 3% on a sustained basis. That 47 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,639 Diana Mousina: could cause concerns for central banks. 48 00:02:46,460 --> 00:02:49,040 Sean Aylmer : We've spoken a lot in recent months about whether or 49 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:54,100 Sean Aylmer : not current price rises are transitory or not, more structural. 50 00:02:54,290 --> 00:02:56,100 Sean Aylmer : Does this tell us anything about that? 51 00:02:56,620 --> 00:02:58,870 Diana Mousina: The favourite line of economists at the moment I think, 52 00:02:58,870 --> 00:03:02,300 Diana Mousina: whether it's transitory or not. It is difficult to say 53 00:03:02,300 --> 00:03:06,700 Diana Mousina: for certain. COVID has created a huge amount of disruptions 54 00:03:06,700 --> 00:03:11,860 Diana Mousina: and distortions in the data. Consumer demand has lifted significantly 55 00:03:11,910 --> 00:03:14,810 Diana Mousina: over the past year because the government has been trying 56 00:03:14,810 --> 00:03:19,109 Diana Mousina: to supplement incomes in the developed world from COVID disruptions. 57 00:03:19,110 --> 00:03:21,760 Diana Mousina: This has led to higher demand for consumer goods and 58 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,570 Diana Mousina: this is still continuing. That's filtering through into high prices, 59 00:03:24,570 --> 00:03:27,930 Diana Mousina: so that's a COVID distortion. The supply issues are also 60 00:03:27,930 --> 00:03:30,910 Diana Mousina: a COVID distortion because a lot of factories are getting 61 00:03:30,910 --> 00:03:34,250 Diana Mousina: closed in countries like China where they account for a 62 00:03:34,250 --> 00:03:38,810 Diana Mousina: large chunk of global manufacturing and production from COVID outbreaks. 63 00:03:39,660 --> 00:03:42,700 Diana Mousina: The majority of the increase in demand, I would say, 64 00:03:42,700 --> 00:03:46,490 Diana Mousina: is probably a short- term factor from consumers just feeling 65 00:03:46,490 --> 00:03:49,270 Diana Mousina: very cashed up because they've had a lot of income 66 00:03:49,450 --> 00:03:54,140 Diana Mousina: supplemented to them. That is probably a transitory factor. Some 67 00:03:54,140 --> 00:03:57,190 Diana Mousina: of the supply issues might not be resolved for a 68 00:03:57,190 --> 00:04:01,660 Diana Mousina: number of months however because COVID cases are still rising overseas. 69 00:04:01,930 --> 00:04:05,700 Diana Mousina: It's not like the vaccines are reaching 90 or 100% 70 00:04:05,770 --> 00:04:09,640 Diana Mousina: of global population, so you will still see these closures 71 00:04:09,690 --> 00:04:13,100 Diana Mousina: in factories, and that will still continue to put upwards 72 00:04:13,310 --> 00:04:16,360 Diana Mousina: pressure on some of those goods that you need in 73 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,310 Diana Mousina: the supply chain process. So, there's definitely some elements that are 74 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,430 Diana Mousina: transitory related to the outbreak, but the increase in consumer 75 00:04:24,430 --> 00:04:27,170 Diana Mousina: demand I think is probably here to stay, which might 76 00:04:27,540 --> 00:04:30,430 Diana Mousina: continue to put some upward pressure on those consumer goods prices, 77 00:04:30,430 --> 00:04:32,529 Diana Mousina: at least for the short term. And as well as that, 78 00:04:32,529 --> 00:04:36,589 Diana Mousina: the energy story, high energy prices are high price of 79 00:04:36,589 --> 00:04:42,260 Diana Mousina: things like oil, natural gas, liquified natural gas, coal, maybe 80 00:04:42,260 --> 00:04:45,250 Diana Mousina: that's here to stay as well for the medium term 81 00:04:45,290 --> 00:04:47,690 Diana Mousina: because the world is moving away from some of those 82 00:04:47,690 --> 00:04:51,599 Diana Mousina: fossil fuels towards some of those renewables. But I think 83 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,339 Diana Mousina: the infrastructure on renewables might not be strong enough to 84 00:04:55,339 --> 00:04:57,780 Diana Mousina: absorb that higher demand, at least for short term. So, 85 00:04:58,310 --> 00:05:02,610 Diana Mousina: it's probably a bit of both in terms of transitory inflation, 86 00:05:02,610 --> 00:05:04,240 Diana Mousina: but also permanent inflation. 87 00:05:04,420 --> 00:05:06,349 Sean Aylmer : Stay with me, Diana. We'll be back in a minute. 88 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,490 Sean Aylmer : I'm speaking to Diana Mousina, Senior Economist at AMP Capital. 89 00:05:16,089 --> 00:05:17,820 Sean Aylmer : Last time around, we were talking about some of the 90 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:21,050 Sean Aylmer : rises in childcare, for example, because it was free last time, 91 00:05:21,260 --> 00:05:22,859 Sean Aylmer : and now people are paying for it. So there's a 92 00:05:22,860 --> 00:05:26,800 Sean Aylmer : big increase, but that's actually transitory; that's flow- through. The 93 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,040 Sean Aylmer : other one was petrol prices and petrol is expensive. This 94 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,589 Sean Aylmer : is referring to what you've just been talking about. Petrol 95 00:05:32,589 --> 00:05:35,909 Sean Aylmer : is extremely expensive at the moment. Do they include that 96 00:05:36,270 --> 00:05:38,279 Sean Aylmer : in the underlying measure or is that just seen as 97 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:39,430 Sean Aylmer : something more volatile? 98 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,200 Diana Mousina: Well, the underlying measure takes out some of the largest 99 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,589 Diana Mousina: price rises and price falls. So, while an initial spike 100 00:05:47,589 --> 00:05:50,909 Diana Mousina: in petrol prices may not be included in a specific 101 00:05:50,910 --> 00:05:53,620 Diana Mousina: quarter, if it's a continual rise in prices, which we 102 00:05:53,620 --> 00:05:57,479 Diana Mousina: have seen for oil now for a few quarters, it 103 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,070 Diana Mousina: does eventually get into the underlying measures of inflation, so 104 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,170 Diana Mousina: it will be measured in there - yes. 105 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,330 Sean Aylmer : So what's all this mean for the Reserve Bank? What 106 00:06:05,330 --> 00:06:08,080 Sean Aylmer : do you think they're doing in Martin Place this afternoon having looked 107 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:08,830 Sean Aylmer : at these numbers? 108 00:06:09,740 --> 00:06:11,779 Diana Mousina: Probably getting a bit of headache like me from looking 109 00:06:11,779 --> 00:06:15,440 Diana Mousina: at all the specific indices in inflation. The Reserve Bank 110 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:20,370 Diana Mousina: meeting next week is live in terms of potentially making 111 00:06:20,370 --> 00:06:26,320 Diana Mousina: some changes to their target buying of the April 2024 bond. Now, 112 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,010 Diana Mousina: this is getting a bit technical, but they've been targeting 113 00:06:29,010 --> 00:06:33,180 Diana Mousina: the April 2024 Australian bond to have a yield of 0.1%. 114 00:06:34,339 --> 00:06:38,630 Diana Mousina: They may start to remove that commentary or not target 115 00:06:38,630 --> 00:06:43,510 Diana Mousina: that bond anymore if they eventually want the market to 116 00:06:43,580 --> 00:06:46,200 Diana Mousina: come around to pricing even more interest rate hikes. I mean, 117 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,830 Diana Mousina: the market is already pricing more than one interest rate 118 00:06:48,830 --> 00:06:52,109 Diana Mousina: hike by the end of next year, so next week's 119 00:06:52,110 --> 00:06:55,890 Diana Mousina: meeting could potentially change the commentary around the yield target 120 00:06:55,890 --> 00:06:59,409 Diana Mousina: for the April bond. The broader implication that we see for the 121 00:06:59,410 --> 00:07:03,460 Diana Mousina: Reserve Bank is that interest rate hikes will start sooner 122 00:07:03,460 --> 00:07:07,220 Diana Mousina: than expected. So before, we were expecting that the RBA 123 00:07:07,260 --> 00:07:10,670 Diana Mousina: would increase interest rates probably in the middle of 2023. 124 00:07:11,580 --> 00:07:15,830 Diana Mousina: W e've brought that forward. So we now expect right 125 00:07:15,830 --> 00:07:18,970 Diana Mousina: hikes to start in November of next year, which is 126 00:07:18,970 --> 00:07:21,790 Diana Mousina: sooner than expected, but in line with market pricing, and 127 00:07:21,790 --> 00:07:25,000 Diana Mousina: also in line with the rhetoric from the Federal Reserve, 128 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,340 Diana Mousina: which is that central bank in the US, and in line 129 00:07:28,340 --> 00:07:30,300 Diana Mousina: with some of the other central banks that are becoming 130 00:07:30,300 --> 00:07:32,270 Diana Mousina: a bit more hawkish slightly like the Reserve Bank of 131 00:07:32,270 --> 00:07:35,650 Diana Mousina: New Zealand and the Reserve Bank of Canada. Because clearly, 132 00:07:35,650 --> 00:07:40,040 Diana Mousina: they can see that some factors in the inflation data 133 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,700 Diana Mousina: recently is probably here to stay and this period of 134 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,680 Diana Mousina: ultra low interest rates is over. 135 00:07:57,300 --> 00:08:00,570 Sean Aylmer : What you're really saying is that you think rates will rise, 136 00:08:00,670 --> 00:08:03,410 Sean Aylmer : the official cash rate, which will flow through to mortgage rates, 137 00:08:03,410 --> 00:08:07,050 Sean Aylmer : will rise much sooner than the Reserve Bank said. Once 138 00:08:07,050 --> 00:08:10,640 Sean Aylmer : we get that going November and December, is it likely, 139 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,350 Sean Aylmer : assuming the trajectory of the economy, that we'll see a 140 00:08:14,350 --> 00:08:17,070 Sean Aylmer : few rate rises over following years to get back to 141 00:08:17,070 --> 00:08:18,140 Sean Aylmer : more normal levels? 142 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,250 Diana Mousina: Generally, that's the way that it works. When the RBA 143 00:08:21,250 --> 00:08:24,070 Diana Mousina: starts hiking interest rates, it's not just one rate hike; 144 00:08:24,230 --> 00:08:26,320 Diana Mousina: they might do three or four in the period of 145 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,330 Diana Mousina: a year, but mortgage rates are already rising. They are 146 00:08:29,620 --> 00:08:33,210 Diana Mousina: partly priced off what happens to market interest rates, so 147 00:08:33,210 --> 00:08:36,330 Diana Mousina: the government bonds in the short term, the fixed rates 148 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,709 Diana Mousina: across some of the major banks already rising. But again, 149 00:08:38,750 --> 00:08:41,410 Diana Mousina: we're talking about very small increments. I've seen some banks 150 00:08:41,410 --> 00:08:45,330 Diana Mousina: putting up interest rates by 0.1 of a per cent for 151 00:08:45,330 --> 00:08:48,790 Diana Mousina: the fixed rate and that's likely to continue over the 152 00:08:48,790 --> 00:08:52,069 Diana Mousina: next year. I think that fixed rates have probably seen 153 00:08:52,070 --> 00:08:55,600 Diana Mousina: their bottom if global interest rates continue to increase as 154 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,410 Diana Mousina: they have over the past few months. 155 00:08:58,420 --> 00:09:01,569 Sean Aylmer : Now, Deanna, you're the perfect person to ask this because you've just had 156 00:09:01,570 --> 00:09:02,721 Sean Aylmer : a baby. Congratulations on that. 157 00:09:02,721 --> 00:09:02,722 Diana Mousina: Thank you. 158 00:09:02,722 --> 00:09:05,130 Sean Aylmer : You've just come back to work. But when you left 159 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,380 Sean Aylmer : 9 months ago or 12 months ago to the last 160 00:09:07,380 --> 00:09:10,010 Sean Aylmer : couple of weeks when you've come back, is the economy 161 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:11,410 Sean Aylmer : very different? 162 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:18,480 Diana Mousina: Well, I think that the economy has recovered significantly from the lockdown. 163 00:09:18,540 --> 00:09:20,819 Diana Mousina: I don't think that the lockdowns that we've had in Australia 164 00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:24,670 Diana Mousina: have had much of a negative impact in a macro 165 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,579 Diana Mousina: sense if you're just talking about it from the whole economy. 166 00:09:27,750 --> 00:09:31,010 Diana Mousina: Of course, some small businesses have gone out of business 167 00:09:31,010 --> 00:09:33,850 Diana Mousina: and people have lost their job; but from a macro perspective, 168 00:09:33,850 --> 00:09:38,500 Diana Mousina: the government has more than supplemented incomes of households who 169 00:09:38,500 --> 00:09:42,420 Diana Mousina: have lost some hours to work, or potentially completely lost 170 00:09:42,420 --> 00:09:45,079 Diana Mousina: their job even though we didn't have the program of 171 00:09:45,330 --> 00:09:48,739 Diana Mousina: JobKeeper in place. So, the economy has weathered the lockdowns 172 00:09:48,740 --> 00:09:51,130 Diana Mousina: extremely well. It also goes to the point that there 173 00:09:51,130 --> 00:09:53,980 Diana Mousina: is this huge amount of pent up demand from consumers 174 00:09:54,340 --> 00:09:56,850 Diana Mousina: after lockdown. People have been locked down for four months 175 00:09:56,850 --> 00:09:58,850 Diana Mousina: and then, afterwards, they want to go and spend on 176 00:09:58,850 --> 00:10:03,280 Diana Mousina: services and their incomes have allowed them to do this 177 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,760 Diana Mousina: during lockdown. If you're fortunate enough not to lose your job, 178 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,790 Diana Mousina: then you probably saved a bit of money, and there is 179 00:10:07,830 --> 00:10:11,540 Diana Mousina: still this huge pile- up of savings for consumers that 180 00:10:11,540 --> 00:10:15,760 Diana Mousina: will allow them to spend now that the economy has reopened. 181 00:10:16,140 --> 00:10:18,920 Diana Mousina: In the US there are some estimates that consumer savings 182 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,160 Diana Mousina: are worth about 10% of GDP, so in Australia, we 183 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,439 Diana Mousina: could be looking at a similar level here. That's just 184 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,120 Diana Mousina: since the pandemic has started. So, I'd say that the 185 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,950 Diana Mousina: economy is in a really good shape overall in Australia 186 00:10:30,020 --> 00:10:33,469 Diana Mousina: to do quite well. That means that inflation is likely 187 00:10:33,470 --> 00:10:36,840 Diana Mousina: to increase and that eventually, the RBA will start Hocking interest rates, 188 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,160 Diana Mousina: but a strong economy is something that we should be 189 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:40,100 Diana Mousina: happy with overall. 190 00:10:40,650 --> 00:10:42,700 Sean Aylmer : Yeah. I'm not really sure whether I'm happy with this 191 00:10:42,700 --> 00:10:45,420 Sean Aylmer : conversation or not, Deanna, to be honest, because I have a 192 00:10:45,570 --> 00:10:48,780 Sean Aylmer : big mortgage and I like my mortgage rate so low, 193 00:10:49,260 --> 00:10:51,250 Sean Aylmer : but in the next few years, I'm going to have to 194 00:10:51,250 --> 00:10:52,209 Sean Aylmer : pay more basically. 195 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,120 Diana Mousina: Well, that's right unless you decide to fix a large 196 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,780 Diana Mousina: chunk of your mortgage at a low rate, which a 197 00:10:58,780 --> 00:11:01,449 Diana Mousina: lot of consumers have been doing. There are some estimates 198 00:11:01,450 --> 00:11:05,150 Diana Mousina: that show that for new lending, nearly 50% of that 199 00:11:05,150 --> 00:11:08,350 Diana Mousina: new lending has now been fixed because the rates have 200 00:11:08,350 --> 00:11:11,530 Diana Mousina: just been so competitive and the banks have been slashing 201 00:11:11,530 --> 00:11:15,150 Diana Mousina: the fixed rates over the past few years. A few 202 00:11:15,150 --> 00:11:17,580 Diana Mousina: months ago you could have gotten a mortgage for four 203 00:11:17,580 --> 00:11:21,610 Diana Mousina: years fixed at 1.99%, which is extremely low. So yes, 204 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,940 Diana Mousina: mortgage rates are going to start increasing in Australia over 205 00:11:25,940 --> 00:11:28,319 Diana Mousina: the next few years. But hopefully, this also means that 206 00:11:28,330 --> 00:11:31,720 Diana Mousina: the overall environment will be better for consumers in terms 207 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,270 Diana Mousina: of wage rises. Australian wages growth is still very low 208 00:11:35,490 --> 00:11:38,410 Diana Mousina: running at about 2% per annum. In the US it's 209 00:11:38,410 --> 00:11:41,120 Diana Mousina: picked up quite significantly. There are some estimates that show 210 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,020 Diana Mousina: annual wages growth running at closer to 4% per annum 211 00:11:44,350 --> 00:11:47,030 Diana Mousina: in the US. So, if we do see this high 212 00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:49,650 Diana Mousina: wage environment for consumers, I think that that will be a 213 00:11:49,650 --> 00:11:52,400 Diana Mousina: huge positive. That's assuming that inflation doesn't get out of 214 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,500 Diana Mousina: control though. You don't want to see this situation where inflation's 215 00:11:55,500 --> 00:11:58,080 Diana Mousina: running at a much higher level than wages. That would 216 00:11:58,080 --> 00:11:59,920 Diana Mousina: be negative for consumers. 217 00:12:00,450 --> 00:12:02,390 Sean Aylmer : Okay, Deanna, thank you very much for talking to Fear 218 00:12:02,670 --> 00:12:03,020 Sean Aylmer : and Greed. 219 00:12:03,300 --> 00:12:04,079 Diana Mousina: Thank you so much. 220 00:12:04,410 --> 00:12:08,100 Sean Aylmer : That was Diana Mousina, Senior Economist at AMP Capital. This 221 00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:10,210 Sean Aylmer : is a Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join me every 222 00:12:10,210 --> 00:12:12,500 Sean Aylmer : morning for the full Fear and Greed podcast with all 223 00:12:12,500 --> 00:12:15,240 Sean Aylmer : the business news you need to know. I'm Sean Aylmer. 224 00:12:15,610 --> 00:12:16,069 Sean Aylmer : Enjoy your day.