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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed business news you can use. Today. Equities, cryptocurrencies,

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Speaker 1: and gold sell off as investors reassess the outlook for

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Speaker 1: risk and interest rates, assex Boss Joe Longo warns that

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Speaker 1: private credit faces new rules if it doesn't clean up

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Speaker 1: its act, and Goodman Group warns on the surge in

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Speaker 1: AI related infrastructure. Must be a day for warnings because

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Speaker 1: US polls show voters are tiring of Donald Trump, and

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Speaker 1: how smart watch data and AI are combining to uncover

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Speaker 1: heart problems. It is Thursday, the sixth of November twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. Michael Thompson and good morning, Sean Aylmer.

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Speaker 2: Morning, Michael, something for everyone this morning. I think we've

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Speaker 2: got regulators, we've got gold, we've got us voting, all

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Speaker 2: sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's a real mix today, Sean. Let's start with

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Speaker 1: the main story. It seems a logical place to begin.

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Speaker 1: The local share market fell to a six week low

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Speaker 1: yesterday as Wall streets tech titans tumbles, and other asset classes,

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Speaker 1: including bitcoin and including gold, dropped as investors get nervous

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Speaker 1: about high valuations.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't what you'd call a bloodbath, but they were selling

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Speaker 2: everywhere on the back of a fairly disparate bunch of events.

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Speaker 2: Looking locally first, mining stocks pushed the local share market

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Speaker 2: to a six week low yesterday morning, with concerns about

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Speaker 2: competition in iron or out of Africa. Always wanted to

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Speaker 2: use that phrase out of Africa. Competition iron or out

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Speaker 2: of Africa. Weighing on VHP, Rio Tinto and fortes Qugh

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Speaker 2: Metals Group. There were media reports that China plans to

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Speaker 2: develop a mine at the world's largest untapped iron ore

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Speaker 2: reserving Guinea that would certainly hurt the local miners. Local

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Speaker 2: tech stocks were also sold off following a sell down

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Speaker 2: on Wall Street, particularly of those mega tech caps that's

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Speaker 2: renewed concerns about valuations and index of the Magnificent seven

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Speaker 2: tech stocks and Vidia, Microsoft, Apple, Meta, Amazon, Alphabet, and

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Speaker 2: Tesla fell more than two percent yesterday, though the biggest

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Speaker 2: loser was actually the current market Darling on Wall Street

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Speaker 2: a data software group called Pallunteer Technologies. It shared ten

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Speaker 2: percent on nervousness about its AI outlook. It had been

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Speaker 2: up one hundred and seventy percent, So just sort of

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Speaker 2: seeing that nervousness around tech stock valuations at the moment

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Speaker 2: and the prospect of no more rate cuts in Australia

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Speaker 2: following the Reserve Bank boards meeting on Monday and Tuesday

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Speaker 2: of this week weighed on equities here. During the day,

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Speaker 2: the market did for by as much as half percent.

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Speaker 2: It sort of paired back most of those losses by

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Speaker 2: the end of the day. It closed down slightly to

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Speaker 2: eighty eight hundred and two points. Many investment analysts have

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Speaker 2: warned of a bumpy end to the year. What's emerging

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Speaker 2: is a slightly it's probably more than slightly. It's a

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Speaker 2: higher aversion to risk at the moment, concerns over tech

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Speaker 2: company valuations and receding expectations of rate cuts in the

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Speaker 2: US and Australia, and that's pushing down asset prices all

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Speaker 2: over the place.

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Speaker 1: Does this mean we're less likely to have a Santa

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Speaker 1: Rally this year? Sean. We've talked about Santa rallies in

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Speaker 1: the past, and I just love to bring that up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, quite the opposite, because if we where are we

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Speaker 2: November early November, if we fall for the next four

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Speaker 2: to six weeks, surely that's just settings up for a

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Speaker 2: Santa rally.

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Speaker 1: Oh great, Okay, Bitcoin, We need to talk about bitcoin

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Speaker 1: because that fell below one hundred thousand US dollars a

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Speaker 1: unit for the first time since June. While gold and

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Speaker 1: oil both fell, it was just just falling everywhere.

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Speaker 2: It was. I mean, the cryptocurrencies actually were the ones

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Speaker 2: that dropped most. Bitcoin was fetching just under ninety seven

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Speaker 2: ninety seven thousand US dollars had fallen by about twenty

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Speaker 2: percent from its peak of last month. That recovered somewhat

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Speaker 2: to back to that about that one hundred thousand US

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Speaker 2: dollars a unit mark. The number two cryptocurrency, Ethereum, is

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Speaker 2: the one that's really taken a fall. It's of thirty

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Speaker 2: six percent since its peak. Now markets are fickle the least,

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Speaker 2: no surprises there, Michael, But in recent days there's just

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Speaker 2: been a sense that tech stocks and cryptocurrencies have been overvalued.

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Speaker 2: Even gold, the ultimate safe haven asset, has been caught up,

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Speaker 2: with the price of bullion heading back towards thirty nine

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Speaker 2: hundred US dollars an ounce, down about ten percent from

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Speaker 2: its peak. Silver's off even more from its peak. Brent

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Speaker 2: krude at sixty four dollars in barrels also trading at

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Speaker 2: low levels. It's twenty percent off its peak earlier this year.

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Speaker 2: It's just a sense of our knees in financial markets

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Speaker 2: at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Michael, Why then is gold falling? Sean? If there is

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Speaker 1: so much unease and anxiety and people are worried about

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Speaker 1: kind of tech company valuations and things, why are we're

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Speaker 1: not seeing gold continuing to climb if that is the

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Speaker 1: safe haven.

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Speaker 2: Because at some point value matters, and with gold at

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Speaker 2: forty one hundred US dollars an ounce, that is expensive.

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Speaker 2: There's never been anywhere near that, and so even though

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Speaker 2: other valuations are sort of coming off, gold is just

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Speaker 2: too h And what's important here? You know, I said

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Speaker 2: right at the top, this isn't a blood bath. We're

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Speaker 2: not seeing selling selling selling. We're just seeing all sorts

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Speaker 2: of asset classes getting lower, okay, And that kind of

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Speaker 2: means gold can get lower. If you saw a mega

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Speaker 2: sell off of tech stocks or a bitcoin, then gold

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Speaker 2: is less likely to fall. But you're not. You're just

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Speaker 2: sing across the board drops on valuation concerns.

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Speaker 1: Okay. I love for the fact, when we're considering the

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Speaker 1: fact it's not a blood bath, you've managed to mention

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Speaker 1: the word blood bath twice. Now it's great, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: It's a ripper of a term.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: The boss of the Corporate Regulator, Sean Joe Longo, yesterday

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Speaker 1: said that Australia's financial markets need to innovate or stagnate,

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Speaker 1: and private credit in this country faces its own Minsky moments,

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Speaker 1: suggesting a market collapse as a real possibility.

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Speaker 2: So you did some research on what a Minsky moment is?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I've been learning all the about the five

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Speaker 1: stages of a bubble as defined by the economist Time

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Speaker 1: and P. Minski. Yeah, yeah, I found this. Yeah, I've

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Speaker 1: got no idea what the P stands for. I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: it's maybe filter, Yeah, yeah, it maybe. But about this

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Speaker 1: the fact that it's kind of displacement, boom, euphoria, profit taking,

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Speaker 1: and then panic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the GFC normally Minsky moments selling collapse

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Speaker 2: for markets following a period of unsustainable speculative investing involving

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Speaker 2: big amounts of debt. Now, I think Jane Longo is

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Speaker 2: probably sort of at one end of the spectrum here.

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Speaker 2: He said private credit is still small, there's time to act,

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Speaker 2: but he put the industry on notice they need to

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Speaker 2: improve otherwise the sector will face new legislative obligations. Longo

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Speaker 2: was speaking at the National Press Club after the release

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Speaker 2: of four different research reports into public and private markets.

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Speaker 2: He said Australia needs to consider when the company is

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Speaker 2: public or private and the rules for each. For example,

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Speaker 2: if a super fund invest using member funds, so yours

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Speaker 2: are my money, how should that be considered? If we're

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Speaker 2: sort of retail investors, that's putting our money potentially into

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Speaker 2: private sector investments. He also pondered by a buyo tech

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Speaker 2: company with less than ten million dollars in turnover should

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Speaker 2: have the same compliance as BHP and more than Sydney Airport,

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Speaker 2: which is now a private company. So he's thrown a

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Speaker 2: lot of stuff uf in the air Jo long Ao,

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Speaker 2: and it'll be interesting to see where it all settles.

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Speaker 2: It'll take years to unravel, but certainly private credit seems

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Speaker 2: to be in the sites of Ask.

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Speaker 1: Him and P Minsky, did you guess that his middle

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Speaker 1: name was Philip?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I said, phil You were right? Really yeah?

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Speaker 1: Well well done, you're a well you are a student

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Speaker 1: of economics after all, I suspect it. I was probably

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Speaker 1: tucked away in there, somewhere deep within the gray matter.

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Speaker 1: Well done. Sure, We've still got plenty to come back

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Speaker 1: in a moment with the rest of the day's business news.

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Speaker 1: Sean Goodman Group has reported a solid September quarter, and

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Speaker 1: the data center and Commercial Property group said development activity

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Speaker 1: is set to accelerate in the second half.

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Speaker 2: But Boss Greg Goodman warned that it's getting harder to

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Speaker 2: build data centers, notwithstanding all the tens of billions of

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Speaker 2: dollars being strown around globally. When asked about the big

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Speaker 2: tech companies throwing money at AI infrastructure, Goodman said, there's

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Speaker 2: not enough money in the world to finance the aspirations,

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Speaker 2: and that's the reality, is what he said. There needs

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Speaker 2: to be a bit of common sense in building good,

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Speaker 2: long term products. It's kind of the opposite to what

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Speaker 2: many of the tech companies are saying at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Goodman reported a twelve point four billion dollar or twelve

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Speaker 2: point four billion dollars of work in progress. Sixty eight

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Speaker 2: percent of that is in data centers, so obviously they're

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Speaker 2: big into data centers. The plan is to lift that

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Speaker 2: to more than seven in half billion dollars by the

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Speaker 2: middle of next year. Goodman's share price fell yesterday, fell

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Speaker 2: couple percent, maybe three percent. By the clothes a few

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Speaker 2: years back, starting with COVID moving into the AI era.

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Speaker 2: We used to talk about Goodman all the time. It's

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Speaker 2: like the hottest stocks in the AX. The steam has

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Speaker 2: well and truly come out. It's off twelve percent so

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Speaker 2: far this year and the worst performing large caps. In fact,

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Speaker 2: of the top fifty stocks, only Wise Tech, Global, James

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Speaker 2: Hardy and CSL have done worse than Goodman over the

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Speaker 2: past twelve months.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's so. I find that staggering because those

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Speaker 1: companies have had some for some really.

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Speaker 2: Significant issues dropped.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, how about this one.

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Speaker 2: Saw.

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Speaker 1: More than two billion dollars have been has been recovered

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Speaker 1: for underpaid workers in the past five years, with over

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Speaker 1: half the amount back paid by large corporate employers, according

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Speaker 1: to the Fair Work on Bodsmen.

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Speaker 2: The Almudsman's annual report shows the agency recovered three hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty eight million dollars for more than two one

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Speaker 2: hundred and forty nine thousand underpaid workers last financial lia

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Speaker 2: Fair Work Ombardsman and a both said that the FWO

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Speaker 2: had delivered significant back payments to workers across the nation,

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Speaker 2: holding employers to account. Last year also marked the Omberdsman's

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Speaker 2: highest ever penalty in a court in a single action

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Speaker 2: when operators of Sushi Bay outlets in New southwalesk Canber

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Speaker 2: and Darwin were ordered to pay fifteen point three million

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Speaker 2: dollars for deliberately underpaying one hundred and sixty three workers

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Speaker 2: more than six hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: We mentioned wise Tech just a moment ago. Seawan, the

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Speaker 1: former independent directors of wise Tech Global who resigned on

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Speaker 1: mass in February, says they've basically come out and said

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Speaker 1: they are not being investigated by the corporate regulator.

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Speaker 2: It comes as ASSEK looks into potential insider trading by

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Speaker 2: billionaire founder Richard White. Former wiss Tech chairman Richard Damary,

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Speaker 2: a long with former colleagues Lisa Brock, Fiona pac Poi

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Speaker 2: and Michael Malone said they were interviewed by ASSEG in

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Speaker 2: March following their resignation. Since then, there's been no further

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Speaker 2: contact with the regulator. Last week, wise Tech Global's headquarters

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Speaker 2: in Sydney was rated by officials from ASSEK and the

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Speaker 2: Australian Federal Police as part of an investigation into trades

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Speaker 2: made by White and three other unnamed employees.

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Speaker 1: Turning to International News Now, Sean and what has loosely

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Speaker 1: been described as judgment on the performance of Republican President

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Polls in New York City, New Jersey, and

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Speaker 1: Virginia have all been won by Democrats, while a vote

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Speaker 1: in California sided with a Democrats proposal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what I said loosely when in

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Speaker 2: this intro, but what's been described as a judgment not

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Speaker 2: even loosely described. The Democrats are cheering from the rafters

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Speaker 2: at the moment. The highest profile poll was the mayoral

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Speaker 2: election in New York City, where thirty four year old

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Speaker 2: Zorin Ma'am Downey, a Muslim who Donald Trump has been

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Speaker 2: highly critical of, was voted the youngest mayor of the

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Speaker 2: city in more than one hundred years. More than two

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Speaker 2: million voters cast ballot. That's the highest turnout in the

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Speaker 2: city since nineteen sixty nine, last time there was a

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Speaker 2: mayor or race one point one million, so it's nearly

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Speaker 2: twice that many. In California, voters agreed to a redist

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Speaker 2: redistricting effort intended to partially neutralize a push by Trump

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Speaker 2: to draw up more safe Republican seats before next year's

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Speaker 2: midterm elections. So win for Democrats there, and in New

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Speaker 2: Jersey and Virginia, Democrat governors were elected. In the case

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Speaker 2: of Virginia, the previous governor was a Republican, and the

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Speaker 2: Democrats made significant in roads across that state. There was

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Speaker 2: also a vote in Pennsylvania where Democrats kept control of

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Speaker 2: the state Supreme Court. Undoubtedly a bad day for Republicans.

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump responded, tweeting, I quote, Trump wasn't on the

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Speaker 2: ballot and shut down were the two reasons that Republicans

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Speaker 2: lost elections tonight. I wouldn't say that's gracious.

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Speaker 1: No, no, not particularly, And I think you do need

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Speaker 1: to read something into the fact that a number of

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Speaker 1: these candidates for governor, the Democrats in particular, actually positioned

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Speaker 1: their campaigns as an anti anti Trump vote, right, and

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Speaker 1: so that you've got to read something into that, right,

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Speaker 1: But I don't know whether the president is quite able

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Speaker 1: to reflect upon that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the Zorain Mendani he was. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Trump actually came out day ahead and said if you

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Speaker 2: vote for him, then New York won't be getting federal

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Speaker 2: fund as much federal funding, which I don't know how

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Speaker 2: you can say that. I mean, it's almost illegal. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: what are.

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Speaker 1: You saying that occasionally the president kind of shoots from

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Speaker 1: the hip on truth social never staying with Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: The fate of the majority of his tariffs as in

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Speaker 1: the hands of the US Supreme Court, who overnight heard

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Speaker 1: arguments following lower court rulings that they were issued illegally

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Speaker 1: under an emergency law.

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Speaker 2: The tariffs have remained in place to allow a Trump

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Speaker 2: administration to appeal to the Supreme Court, which of course

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Speaker 2: is the highest court in the US. The tariffs in

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Speaker 2: question of those imposed under the International Emergency Economic Powers

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Speaker 2: Act that includes the minimum baseline tariff of ten percent,

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Speaker 2: which impacts Australia. This is thus far the biggest test

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Speaker 2: of Trump's power that's gone to the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: Now, how about this, right? Scientists have uncovered structural heart

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Speaker 1: problems by using an artificial intelligence tool to vet smart

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Speaker 1: watch data and the latest advance in the fast evolving

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Speaker 1: field of cardiology diagnostics. We talk a lot about kind

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Speaker 1: of AI and chat JBT and kind of using it

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Speaker 1: to speed things up in the workplace. This is kind

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Speaker 1: of AI being used for the real benefit of mankind.

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Speaker 2: Oh totally. The new technique found conditions including weakened pumping

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Speaker 2: ability damaged valves and thickened muscle, promising to expand the

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Speaker 2: potential of wearing of wearable devices beyond detecting rhythm disorders.

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Speaker 2: The work ises simple readouts of heart electrical activity known

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Speaker 2: as single lead electro cardiograms, that can be recorded by

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Speaker 2: smart watches without the need for anything extra. It's according

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Speaker 2: to a report in the FT. The preliminary study was

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Speaker 2: unveiled at the American Heart Association's annual Scientific Sessions and

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Speaker 2: according to its authors, has the potential to transform structural

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Speaker 2: heart disease screening in communities. It could make early screening

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Speaker 2: for structural heart disease possible on a massive scale using

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Speaker 2: devices many people already own now. Smart watch heart data

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Speaker 2: is already used to spot warning science for atrial freeb

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Speaker 2: relation and irregular rhythm. But what this study does and

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Speaker 2: it hasn't been looked at by peers. It hasn't been

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Speaker 2: peer reviewed yet, so it's still ways to go. But

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Speaker 2: it suggests that all these other issues can be not

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Speaker 2: diagnosed just using a smart watch in AI.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty incredible. Okay. Up next is the Fear and

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Speaker 1: Greed Q and A. Your guest today is Kate Anderson

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Speaker 1: from Now infinity.

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Speaker 2: This is a great chat. We always talk about investing.

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Speaker 2: We don't talk about investing here. We talk about setting

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Speaker 2: up your own self managed superfund and all the stuff

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Speaker 2: you need to do except for investing, and there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of it. So if you're interested in running your

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Speaker 2: own self managed superfund, if you have done, you might

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Speaker 2: do in the future. Well worth a listen.

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Speaker 1: And this is part of the Classic Night twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: five and Fear and Greed are actually media partners of

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Speaker 1: the Classic Night twenty twenty five conference and this is

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Speaker 1: part of that one. It's a great chats coming up

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Speaker 1: next to the Fear and Greed playlist on your podcast

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Speaker 1: platform or at Fearandagreed dot com dot au, which is

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Speaker 1: where you sign up for our free daily newsletter.

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Speaker 2: Thank you Sean, Thank you Michael.

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Speaker 1: It's Thursday, the sixth of November twenty twenty five. Make

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Speaker 1: sure you're following the podcast and join us online on LinkedIn, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: x TikTok and Facebook. I'm Michael Thompson and that was

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Speaker 1: Fear and Greed. Have a great day.