WEBVTT - #2007 Brain Food - Bobby Cappuccio

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<v Speaker 1>I'll get it, Sam, it's your project. Of course, it

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<v Speaker 1>is Bobby Capuco on the other side of the world,

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<v Speaker 1>Craig Kappa on this side of the world, or perhaps

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<v Speaker 1>if you're listening from the States, I am on the

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<v Speaker 1>other side of the world. Good morning, what's morning here?

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<v Speaker 1>Hi made?

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<v Speaker 2>How are you doing good? I'm filled with optimism, You

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<v Speaker 2>filled with.

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<v Speaker 1>How are you really?

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<v Speaker 2>Or you just filled with a chicken sandwich and a

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<v Speaker 2>chocolate milk. I might be sending down, but I'm standing

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<v Speaker 2>up inside myself.

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<v Speaker 1>I've never asked you this, so this is completely irrelevant, redundant, probably,

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<v Speaker 1>but I want to ask you just quickly before we

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<v Speaker 1>dive into what we want to talk about. Could you

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<v Speaker 1>tell me what you eat typically in a day? This

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<v Speaker 1>is a question I get asked, what do you eat?

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell me what you eat? What do you

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<v Speaker 1>eat in a day? Like typically, what's your breakfast?

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<v Speaker 2>My typical days are a plant based actually, so I'll

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<v Speaker 2>have I'm not meaning that I'm a vegan or a vegetarian.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just the base of my diet is plants because

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<v Speaker 2>I feel I run well on that, my mental clarity

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<v Speaker 2>more sustainable energy. So on the morning I'll have like

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<v Speaker 2>some spinach, I'll have some kaloe, some broccoli, whatever assortment

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<v Speaker 2>of etch I have inside my fridge. I'll throw some

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<v Speaker 2>eggs on that, hard boiled, sometimes fried. I prefer hard boiled.

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<v Speaker 2>They're just like easier. And Yeah, throughout the day, I'll

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<v Speaker 2>just have like an assortment of meats, vedge and nuts, berries,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of blueberries, things like that. Some days I'll

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<v Speaker 2>make myself an avocado on toast with. This is a

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<v Speaker 2>conversation I've literally never had with anyone before.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, no, I like it. I may ask me, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I just think it's interesting because I've never asked you

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<v Speaker 1>what you I mean. I've been around you a bit,

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<v Speaker 1>and I say a bit what you eat? But I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know because you're still like, you're fifty iss, you're

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<v Speaker 1>in good shape, you're strongly lean. I've never asked you

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<v Speaker 1>actually what a dia eating looks like for you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, keep going so most days, yeah, it's just like

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<v Speaker 2>nuts and berries and a little bit of fre roots,

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<v Speaker 2>but mostly plants, eggs, meats. But when I go off

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<v Speaker 2>the rails, I go completely off the rails. What you'll

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<v Speaker 2>go to when when you lose your shit? What you'll

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<v Speaker 2>go to crunchy shit pretzels. Popcorn really, I mean, if

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<v Speaker 2>you got crisps. No, no, I don't like crisps. Really,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't like them at all. No, I like popcorn.

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<v Speaker 2>I like pretzels. That's really good. It's not even ice

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<v Speaker 2>cream anymore. I used to love ice cream. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>like that. I don't know why.

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<v Speaker 1>When you say pretzels, you may note a little hard,

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<v Speaker 1>crunchy things, not like the warm, big pretzels.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, I usually eat the crunchy ones. Really funny.

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<v Speaker 2>When I was living in New York City, coming back

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<v Speaker 2>over wow, like it's gotta be three years ago, give

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<v Speaker 2>or take, I would get work in the evening, but

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<v Speaker 2>then I'd have to take a bus across town and

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<v Speaker 2>go back to work another location. So I used to

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<v Speaker 2>buy those big, giant pretzels. And the reason for this

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<v Speaker 2>is you, for like one dollar, us used to be

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<v Speaker 2>able to get these incredibly massive, smoked, delicious pretzels. They

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<v Speaker 2>were so good, so bad for you, but so good. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>And literally five minutes after I ate one, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>would get dizzy. I put my head back on the bus,

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<v Speaker 2>and when I opened my eyes, I'd be at my

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<v Speaker 2>destination and that was a built in nap and then

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<v Speaker 2>I go work for the rest of the evening. So

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<v Speaker 2>that was like a giant sleeping pill for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Delicious hell that is. I wouldn't be recommending that now.

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<v Speaker 1>What is I've never had one of those? What is?

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<v Speaker 1>That's just you said, smokey, what it's bread? Isn't it?

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<v Speaker 1>Isn't it just bread?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? And it put but on the bottom. It had

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<v Speaker 2>this charcoal burnt smoke. It. It was so good the

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<v Speaker 2>food that you used to be able to get well again.

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<v Speaker 2>Not not for you, It's probably the worst thing you

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<v Speaker 2>could eat. But for me, like anything I eat, it

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<v Speaker 2>didn't matter at that age. I mean it mattered energetically,

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<v Speaker 2>it didn't matter for me esthetically. And it was a

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<v Speaker 2>great way for me to just knock myself out on

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<v Speaker 2>the bus. I'd wake up and gone, I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>go to work for a few more hours. So that

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<v Speaker 2>was kind of weird. I don't know why we're going

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<v Speaker 2>into that, but yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I did, I do. I do. I've got another question

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<v Speaker 1>for you, which a lot of people wouldn't think about.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you are when you've got to stand in

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<v Speaker 1>front of groups like you do and I do, and

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<v Speaker 1>even like for now, doing a podcast where you've got

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<v Speaker 1>to talk for whatever forty five sixty minutes and be

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<v Speaker 1>hopefully be somewhat interesting and articulate, and you know, makes

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<v Speaker 1>sense to be able to think clearly and express things.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't eat. I can't eat much food within proximity

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<v Speaker 1>of needing to use my brain and stand in front

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<v Speaker 1>of group, even if it's a group on a podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>but especially if, like I'd say, I'm presenting in the

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<v Speaker 1>morning from to eleven at a conference, I will not

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<v Speaker 1>eat anything until after the thing after eleven o'clock. And

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<v Speaker 1>if I'm presenting at night, same thing, I can't. I

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<v Speaker 1>need my stomach to be almost empty because that's when

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<v Speaker 1>my brain works best. If I've just eaten a normal meal,

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<v Speaker 1>Like if I eat my dinner at seven o'clock seven

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<v Speaker 1>point thirty, I've got the IQ of a wombat. Can't

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<v Speaker 1>string words together, like it's just everything just my body's like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>everything's just slowing down. But that's the way that it

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<v Speaker 1>works for me. What about you eating? What's the correlation

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<v Speaker 1>between eating food and cognitive function for you and doing

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<v Speaker 1>your job on.

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<v Speaker 2>A typical day, The less they eat, the better. So

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<v Speaker 2>if I go into a meeting in the morning and

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't eaten, I feel like my cognition is improved.

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<v Speaker 2>Same thing eater in the day. I eat very little

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<v Speaker 2>for lunch. But when I'm presenting, the amount of energy

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<v Speaker 2>I put out, and let's be honest, I'm scared how

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<v Speaker 2>I go to present. I would say eighty percent of

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<v Speaker 2>the time I'm a little bit anxious about it, or

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<v Speaker 2>at least I hope I'm going to be a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit anxious about it. Yes, I'll eat a moderate to

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<v Speaker 2>small sized meal, but I'll eat a lot of fat

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<v Speaker 2>in protein, no carbohydrates or very little carps. So I

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<v Speaker 2>mean this is probably not a small meal. But I

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<v Speaker 2>have a little bit of avocado and I'll throw some

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<v Speaker 2>cheese on top of my eggs, so I have protein

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<v Speaker 2>and fat. And then when I get that adrenaline dump

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<v Speaker 2>later on going on stage, I can kind of ride

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<v Speaker 2>through that where if I haven't eaten anything, especially if

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<v Speaker 2>I had a cup of coffee, that could get ugly.

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<v Speaker 1>But also if you're eating fat and protein, you're not

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<v Speaker 1>going to get that big kind of blood sugar spot

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<v Speaker 1>and dump, right, You're not going to get that. You're

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<v Speaker 1>not going to flat line where you know you've got

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<v Speaker 1>a more consistent level of energy when you're eating some

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<v Speaker 1>protein and fat before you present. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, especially and this isn't a dig on conferences,

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<v Speaker 2>but the type of food that they serve you there.

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<v Speaker 2>It's ridiculous because I've I've had a on days, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>those days where you're doing the whole event, you're speaking

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<v Speaker 2>for eight hours in the morning, I'm exhausted and I

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<v Speaker 2>got to eat something, and then they'll bring in like

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<v Speaker 2>pizza and these sandwiches on refined white bread. I remember

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<v Speaker 2>I was so tired after eating lunch one session. I

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<v Speaker 2>was standing in front of the room and I couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>think I was having meltdown. I mean, I got through it.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, okay, if I could just move around

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit and get past this first twenty minutes,

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<v Speaker 2>but I was in so much trouble. So what you

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<v Speaker 2>eat when you have to elicit and sustain high performance,

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<v Speaker 2>it's critical.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think that also matters for people who you

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<v Speaker 1>know at work in general, but students, like, be really

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<v Speaker 1>careful what you feed your body when your brain's got

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<v Speaker 1>to be optimal. Sometime in the next half hour or hour,

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<v Speaker 1>I did a gig lass year. I'll tell you who

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<v Speaker 1>it was four off air, but it was I can

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<v Speaker 1>say it was a government department and it was all day.

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<v Speaker 1>It was all day, and so I had to present

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<v Speaker 1>from about nine o'clock to around five o'clock. Everyone got

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<v Speaker 1>together from about eight thirty. And I can't. I would

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<v Speaker 1>love to tell everyone who the people in the room were,

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<v Speaker 1>but I can't because that would possibly get me in trouble.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyway, an interesting crowd. Let's just say that when

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<v Speaker 1>I got there in the morning, so there's all these

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<v Speaker 1>round Is it called cabaret with all the round tables, Bobby?

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<v Speaker 1>Is that what it's called? Cabaret? Set up? I think

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<v Speaker 1>it is. Anyway, all these people are sitting at these tables.

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<v Speaker 1>We're kicking off in fifteen twenty minutes. And in the

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<v Speaker 1>middle of each table is this like looks like a

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<v Speaker 1>gigantic champagne glass whatever that is times ten times the

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<v Speaker 1>size full of lollies, like I would say, two three

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<v Speaker 1>kilograms of lollies on each table. And then of course

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<v Speaker 1>every person is at the table talking and just plucking lollies.

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<v Speaker 1>This is eight thirty in the morning, right, so I'm

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<v Speaker 1>assuming they've had breakfast, come to the event, and now

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<v Speaker 1>at eight thirty we're just inhaling sugar. Then I do

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<v Speaker 1>my first thing. I start off ten thirty. Morning tea comes.

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<v Speaker 1>Morning tea is in an adjoining room. There is a

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<v Speaker 1>stampede of humans like something out of a fucking wildlife

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<v Speaker 1>documentary to the scones and the biscuits and the cake

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<v Speaker 1>and the da da da da da da da. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>not even two hours later after I resume I'm speaking,

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<v Speaker 1>is lunch, which is a Smagers bought. There is a

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<v Speaker 1>stampede to the smoketsport and I'm like, okay, we've had lollies,

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<v Speaker 1>we've had cakes, we've had SCons, we've had muffins, and

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<v Speaker 1>now we've got big pasta dishes and we've got all

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<v Speaker 1>of them. I'm thinking, how are these people fucking vertical?

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<v Speaker 1>How can they think than that? And then mid afternoon,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not even joking, mid afternoon another thing in the

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<v Speaker 1>adjoining room, which was like an assortment of party pies

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<v Speaker 1>and sausage rolls and hot little things with dips. And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, yeah, and that was I mean, when I

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<v Speaker 1>tell you who the group was trying to like, who

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<v Speaker 1>thinks of this? Who thinks when you're talking to the

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<v Speaker 1>catering people. Okay, we've got a conference today we need

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<v Speaker 1>and we're bringing in a guy and paying him quite

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of money to talk to the group about

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<v Speaker 1>essentially how to think better, do better, be better, produce better.

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<v Speaker 1>We're talking about high performance, we're talking about you know, leadership, communication,

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<v Speaker 1>problem solving, we're talking about you know, human and corporate optimization.

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<v Speaker 1>And let's just fill everyone with shit over the day.

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<v Speaker 1>And I even said to the guy who was the boss,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, dude, this is inconsistent with performance, and he's like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and I did my best, but let's just say it wasn't.

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<v Speaker 1>It was just really an exercise in frustration for me.

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<v Speaker 1>You ever had anything like.

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<v Speaker 2>That, Well, yeah, all the time. And what I'm curious

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<v Speaker 2>about is when we have terrifying rises in the incidence

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<v Speaker 2>of burnout and people talk about workplace toxicity and working

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<v Speaker 2>next to people where the interpersonal dynamics elevates levels, I

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<v Speaker 2>wonder how much of that is not created, but facilitated

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<v Speaker 2>and deepened by the shit we eat and our lifestyle

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<v Speaker 2>behaviors every single day. And this is coming from someone

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<v Speaker 2>who makes questionable life decisions on a fairly consistent basis,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's not a judgment, it's an observation. So in

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<v Speaker 2>Paul Taylor's book Death by Comfort, really great book. If

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<v Speaker 2>you haven't read it, go pick it up. I think

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<v Speaker 2>he referenced the Sun Project. And the Sun Project was

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<v Speaker 2>a study that they conducted in Spain with nearly about

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen thousand people and they followed these people for ten

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<v Speaker 2>years and what they found is the people with the

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<v Speaker 2>highest incidents of their total caloric intake coming from ultra

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<v Speaker 2>process foods had over a thirty percent increased chance of

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<v Speaker 2>struggling with depression. And then in France they did a

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<v Speaker 2>very similar study, but this was nearly thirty thousand double

0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.560
<v Speaker 2>the participants, and they kind of found the same thing.

0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.360
<v Speaker 2>But there's a meta analysis that was done through multico

0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:35.040
<v Speaker 2>multico multiple countries in the European Union, and by the

0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:39.040
<v Speaker 2>time you added up, it was over one hundred thousand

0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.280
<v Speaker 2>people that they looked at and they found a forty

0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.319
<v Speaker 2>four percent increase in the risk of depression for people

0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:50.199
<v Speaker 2>who have the highest number of calories coming from ultra

0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:55.840
<v Speaker 2>process foods. So your hippocampus does not work very well

0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.840
<v Speaker 2>when you're struggling with systemic inflammation. Neither does the executive

0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.280
<v Speaker 2>enters your brain, so you think about every attribute that

0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.240
<v Speaker 2>you need. Like if you went into any CEO and said,

0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:09.040
<v Speaker 2>who are the best hires in your organization? Who are

0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:10.959
<v Speaker 2>the up and coming leaders that if you had a

0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.240
<v Speaker 2>chance to go and hire them again, you would make

0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:16.560
<v Speaker 2>the same decision, like point them out? Why? Why them?

0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:23.400
<v Speaker 2>Every single attribute that they name is negatively impacted by

0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.920
<v Speaker 2>a consumption of a diet that is high in ultra

0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:28.719
<v Speaker 2>process foods. And I'm not saying like, if you want

0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.559
<v Speaker 2>to eat a cake on a Thursday night, don't eat

0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:31.840
<v Speaker 2>a cake. Eat a cake, eat.

0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:32.560
<v Speaker 1>An ice cream.

0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.960
<v Speaker 2>But if that's where your calaries are coming from every

0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.319
<v Speaker 2>single day, breakfast and lunch and probably dinner as well,

0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.120
<v Speaker 2>don't be surprised when it's like, God, it's hard for

0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.280
<v Speaker 2>me to function. I'm so tired. I have to drag

0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.880
<v Speaker 2>myself from bed in the morning back to sleep at night.

0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.640
<v Speaker 1>And also think about, you know, what's happening to you

0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.320
<v Speaker 1>got buy on what's happening on a cellular level with

0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:01.360
<v Speaker 1>all that inflammatory food, what's happening on an hormonal level?

0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:06.160
<v Speaker 1>You know, like your body is, your body is trying,

0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:10.480
<v Speaker 1>it's getting calories, but it's not getting nutrition, you know,

0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.720
<v Speaker 1>and trying to fuel your body optimally, you know, so

0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.480
<v Speaker 1>that it can work at its very best. Yeah, we're

0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.680
<v Speaker 1>kind of ticking the caloric or the energy box kind of,

0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:25.920
<v Speaker 1>but it's yeah, kind of, but we're not ticking the

0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:29.960
<v Speaker 1>nutrition box or the quality of food box. Talk to

0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:33.000
<v Speaker 1>us and keep in mind everyone, Bobby is not a dietitian.

0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:37.040
<v Speaker 1>Neither am I. This is not our areas of expertise.

0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.800
<v Speaker 1>But talk to our audience a little bit about the

0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 1>relationship between say, processed food and inflammation and cognitive function

0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.720
<v Speaker 1>and energy levels, and as much as you understand it,

0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:53.320
<v Speaker 1>how that.

0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:58.680
<v Speaker 2>Works when you're eating highly processed foods. Because of a

0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:03.640
<v Speaker 2>lot of reasons you talked about, your body responds through

0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:12.360
<v Speaker 2>chronic inflammation. Chronic inflammation interferes with mood, right, anytime you

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.800
<v Speaker 2>have inflammation and the gut, anytime you're talking about messing

0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:21.520
<v Speaker 2>with your gut biome, you're negatively impacting serotonin production throughout

0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:25.240
<v Speaker 2>the day. So your executive centers are crashed. So there

0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:32.560
<v Speaker 2>goes planning and reasoning and discipline. There goes articulation and communication.

0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:36.560
<v Speaker 2>And when you do that, you ever have that experience

0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:40.680
<v Speaker 2>where you're so angry or you're so anxious, but you're

0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:42.960
<v Speaker 2>in a high state of emotional arousal, and because you

0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:48.640
<v Speaker 2>cannot communicate properly and articulate, because your left temporal lobes

0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:53.520
<v Speaker 2>are offline, you get even more angry, and then it

0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:58.200
<v Speaker 2>kind of devolves into this anger fueled conversation simply because

0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.960
<v Speaker 2>you can't find the words to proper express yourself in

0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:05.360
<v Speaker 2>the heat of the moment. Well, critical conversations are something

0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.680
<v Speaker 2>that we have to do every single day at work,

0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.640
<v Speaker 2>so that's impaired. Working memory is impaired. Long term potentiation

0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.960
<v Speaker 2>or the storage of long term memories, that's impaired. So

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:23.120
<v Speaker 2>diet affects everything. And I'm not saying be super strict,

0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:24.640
<v Speaker 2>and I'm sure there's a lot of people out there

0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.440
<v Speaker 2>that can make a very good argument for why you

0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.040
<v Speaker 2>might need to be. I just don't think that's sustainable.

0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:33.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't think that's necessary. But when you're talking about burnout,

0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:37.080
<v Speaker 2>when you're talking about I am so stressed every single day,

0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:41.760
<v Speaker 2>what you're eating through the majority of calories you take

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:48.240
<v Speaker 2>in matters significantly, and maybe being overly stressed and burnt

0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.840
<v Speaker 2>out isn't a result of what's eating at you every day,

0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:55.520
<v Speaker 2>but what your in turn eating. It's probably a combination

0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.560
<v Speaker 2>of both and ten other variables that we haven't mentioned,

0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:00.240
<v Speaker 2>but it definitely does matter.

0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.959
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, definitely. I think another really interesting thing about you know,

0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.080
<v Speaker 1>the way that our brain works, the way that our

0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:11.359
<v Speaker 1>mind works, you know, mental acuity or vagueness, you know,

0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:16.359
<v Speaker 1>cognitive performance for one of another term is that a

0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.639
<v Speaker 1>lot of people don't realize that this is not the

0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.800
<v Speaker 1>right term, but it'll do for now. That functional IQ

0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:23.880
<v Speaker 1>is fluid.

0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:25.000
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.399
<v Speaker 1>It's like I can literally be smarter in the morning

0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.919
<v Speaker 1>on a practical level, on an operational level than I

0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:36.920
<v Speaker 1>am after lunch, or I'm better hydra everything else is

0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.639
<v Speaker 1>the same, but I'm more hydrated, my brain works better,

0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.720
<v Speaker 1>everything else is the same on this Thursday that I'm

0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:47.040
<v Speaker 1>recording this, But I had an amazing sleep. So today

0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:49.480
<v Speaker 1>at ten thirty, my brain's working better than it did

0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.199
<v Speaker 1>yesterday at ten thirty, when my sleep was shit the

0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:57.159
<v Speaker 1>night before. So it's understanding that not only energy and

0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.919
<v Speaker 1>physiological performance from a strength or flexibility or movement or

0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:06.119
<v Speaker 1>cardiovascular kind of perspective varies, but so does how well

0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.480
<v Speaker 1>the brain works. You know, which is you. And I

0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.600
<v Speaker 1>know sometimes you will get up to do your job,

0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.919
<v Speaker 1>so will I, and it's like it's like you're throwing

0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.080
<v Speaker 1>baskets in a three point basket and the basket is

0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.879
<v Speaker 1>like ten feet wide you cannot miss, Like everything's going

0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.800
<v Speaker 1>in nothing but net. This is I'm in the zone.

0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:29.560
<v Speaker 1>And you've had those moments. I've had a few of them,

0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.679
<v Speaker 1>not too many, but where I'm just like my brain

0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.399
<v Speaker 1>is just through the roof. And there are other days

0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.520
<v Speaker 1>when I can't remember my name and I'm standing in

0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:40.800
<v Speaker 1>front of the audience, and you're the same person with

0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.760
<v Speaker 1>the same brain, but not the same person with the

0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.600
<v Speaker 1>same level of performance on a given day, depending on

0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:51.160
<v Speaker 1>the way that we manage these variables. I don't think

0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:55.680
<v Speaker 1>we think enough about how do I make my brain work? Well,

0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.840
<v Speaker 1>what are all the things I can do so that

0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.560
<v Speaker 1>my brain work some way close to what is optimal

0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:03.159
<v Speaker 1>for me.

0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:12.080
<v Speaker 2>I believe that even even the act of being discerning

0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:20.560
<v Speaker 2>about what you're doing within we'll call them lifestyle decisions, sleep, hygiene, exercise, diet,

0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.159
<v Speaker 2>even if there was no benefit, even if decisions you

0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:28.320
<v Speaker 2>were making were not benefiting you on a practical biological level,

0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:32.600
<v Speaker 2>I think psychologically, it would be very useful because one

0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.720
<v Speaker 2>of the things that elevate the adverse impact of stress

0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.800
<v Speaker 2>is directly in correspondence with our perceived locus of control.

0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.320
<v Speaker 2>How much choice and autonomy and agency I have to

0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:50.119
<v Speaker 2>affect outcomes in my life, dictate in stressful situations, how

0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.200
<v Speaker 2>much of that stress is going to impact me. So

0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.520
<v Speaker 2>someone is like, oh, my goodness, well I've chose this.

0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.840
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to tackle this problem. Oh and when I

0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.959
<v Speaker 2>feel stressed it lights me up. I'm ready to go.

0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:04.680
<v Speaker 2>That person's probably not going to struggle with stress as

0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.399
<v Speaker 2>badly as Oh my god, I fall apart under stress

0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.640
<v Speaker 2>and no matter what I do, nothing's ever going to change.

0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.720
<v Speaker 2>So I think we talked about this. I'm talking to

0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:16.840
<v Speaker 2>a friend of mine who is a top doctor at

0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.560
<v Speaker 2>the university, and he was talking about how agency and

0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.560
<v Speaker 2>learn helplessness, the opposite of any sense of agency, is

0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:29.920
<v Speaker 2>a major driver to when it comes to burnout. That's

0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:34.160
<v Speaker 2>why I like creating habits, like setting a goal, identifying

0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:37.360
<v Speaker 2>a behavior that if it were automatic, it would move

0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:39.960
<v Speaker 2>me towards where I want to be or help me

0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.479
<v Speaker 2>become who I want to be. Just doing that in

0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:47.159
<v Speaker 2>and of itself can address burnout because it establishes a

0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:51.640
<v Speaker 2>future state on the horizon that's clear, and I'm taking

0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:55.119
<v Speaker 2>steps every single day and there's no discernment between the

0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:58.119
<v Speaker 2>steps I'm taking and the result I'm witnessing. I will

0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:00.560
<v Speaker 2>eat this and then I'm eating it. Can't say oh,

0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.359
<v Speaker 2>no matter how much I try, nothing ever changes. Nope,

0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:06.200
<v Speaker 2>there is there is a one to one immediate correlation

0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.960
<v Speaker 2>between the intention I have and the behavior I'm engaging in.

0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:15.119
<v Speaker 2>So I think that matters just having a clear intentionality

0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:18.960
<v Speaker 2>around smaller things in your day, even just saying I'm

0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.919
<v Speaker 2>choosing this thing and doing that.

0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:29.639
<v Speaker 1>Imagine if we had, you know, the same attitude and

0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.960
<v Speaker 1>approach to managing our body on how our brain is

0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:36.160
<v Speaker 1>part of our body. But let's just from a health fitness,

0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:38.560
<v Speaker 1>wellness point of view in general, where you go, all right, well,

0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:40.920
<v Speaker 1>and you'll sit down with a trainer or a coach,

0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.199
<v Speaker 1>or a doctor or a dietitian or a whoever you know,

0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:46.439
<v Speaker 1>integrative medicine specialist, whoever it is you know, and you go,

0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.119
<v Speaker 1>all right, let's look at all these things and how

0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.200
<v Speaker 1>much running or walking or stretching or how much you

0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.760
<v Speaker 1>know strength training, and you tell us about your workstation,

0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:58.159
<v Speaker 1>are you standing, are you're sitting? How much time do

0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:00.480
<v Speaker 1>you spend in inflection? Tell me about you diet. What

0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:02.119
<v Speaker 1>time do you get out of bed, go to bed?

0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:05.040
<v Speaker 1>How much water? Coffee, tea? You know, we analyze all

0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:09.119
<v Speaker 1>of these things that affect, you know, the kind of

0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.600
<v Speaker 1>the performance of our body. But imagine if we did

0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:16.200
<v Speaker 1>a version of that just for our brain. We went,

0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:17.919
<v Speaker 1>all right, let's look at all of that. And I

0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:21.120
<v Speaker 1>know that's integrated into the stuff I just said. Also,

0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:24.920
<v Speaker 1>but where you went? All right, how's my brain going?

0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:28.960
<v Speaker 1>What's my what's the data telling me about my brain?

0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:34.040
<v Speaker 1>Let's say my brain's potential is ten for me? My ten?

0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Where am I at? Now? I know this is a

0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:40.639
<v Speaker 1>very kind of messy thing to try and conceptualize, but

0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:43.080
<v Speaker 1>you know where you go? All right, Well, I know

0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:45.399
<v Speaker 1>that my brain works better. It's like you and I

0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:49.040
<v Speaker 1>both know that eating a cheeseburger and a plate of

0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:53.000
<v Speaker 1>chips and some cheesecake before we go and present is

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:55.240
<v Speaker 1>far less than optimal, right, so we don't do it.

0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:57.760
<v Speaker 1>We also know that you know you buy, don't drink,

0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:00.440
<v Speaker 1>so but you probably know that having to beer before

0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:03.920
<v Speaker 1>you get on stage while but fun probably not optimal

0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.760
<v Speaker 1>for the crowd. Or so, just if we had this

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:10.119
<v Speaker 1>where everybody's always talking about their body. I'm going to

0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:12.000
<v Speaker 1>go on a diet, I'm going to join a gym.

0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:15.040
<v Speaker 1>I've got a New Year's resolution. Imagine if we had

0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:21.400
<v Speaker 1>the same level of awareness and not concern but enthusiasm

0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:26.000
<v Speaker 1>around optimizing our brain. And I don't just mean for

0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:30.960
<v Speaker 1>work performance and memory and academic performance, but for longevity

0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:35.679
<v Speaker 1>and health span. Like, I've never been more aware of

0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:38.120
<v Speaker 1>brain function than I am now. With eighty five year

0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:41.800
<v Speaker 1>old parents, God bless them, and you're just like, oh, yeah,

0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:45.320
<v Speaker 1>this is and they're fine. They're fine, but they're eighty five.

0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:48.280
<v Speaker 1>And the more that I spend time with mom and

0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:51.560
<v Speaker 1>dad at eighty five, I'm like, oh, yeah, crag, you

0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:54.639
<v Speaker 1>really need to you really need to make sure that

0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:59.080
<v Speaker 1>you are doing fucking everything that you can so that

0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:03.320
<v Speaker 1>when you're eighty five, if you make it eighty five,

0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:07.000
<v Speaker 1>that's the big asterisk. But yeah, that your brain's working

0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:09.119
<v Speaker 1>as well as it can, you know. And I just

0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:11.600
<v Speaker 1>don't think we think about it enough. I think we

0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:13.399
<v Speaker 1>just kind of accept what it is.

0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:17.920
<v Speaker 2>I think there are three things that could kind of

0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:20.359
<v Speaker 2>put us on the side of the angels. Again not

0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:27.040
<v Speaker 2>my expert opinion, but I think it's curiosity, it's meaningful

0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:32.960
<v Speaker 2>relationships with other people, like time spent, and intentionality around

0:24:33.000 --> 0:24:36.560
<v Speaker 2>our behaviors. I think those three things would keep us

0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:42.240
<v Speaker 2>in a state of consistent growth, engagement, exploration, and be

0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:43.480
<v Speaker 2>very good for our brain.

0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:49.800
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that like there's in Australia anyway. I'm

0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:54.560
<v Speaker 1>sure in America, like there's a real and I don't

0:24:54.600 --> 0:24:59.520
<v Speaker 1>think it's necessarily been created with ill will, but it's

0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:01.879
<v Speaker 1>like there is very much an age just kind of

0:25:03.119 --> 0:25:05.960
<v Speaker 1>group think and that yeah, well, I mean, what do

0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:08.879
<v Speaker 1>you expect you're fifty five, what do you expect of course? Ye,

0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:13.359
<v Speaker 1>or you're sixty or you're like, there's we rationalize why

0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:18.200
<v Speaker 1>something is happening purely out of well, that's because you're

0:25:18.280 --> 0:25:21.639
<v Speaker 1>this old, and that's what happens when you're this old.

0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:25.320
<v Speaker 1>It's almost like, oh, we have no control, No, that's

0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:29.120
<v Speaker 1>just what happens at sixty and that you know, It's

0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:31.320
<v Speaker 1>like I've told this story ten times on this show.

0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:35.480
<v Speaker 1>But when I first started my PhD, somebody said to me,

0:25:35.480 --> 0:25:37.800
<v Speaker 1>you're going to be sixty one or two when you finish,

0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:41.520
<v Speaker 1>Like and they were kind of going, you know, they

0:25:41.560 --> 0:25:44.000
<v Speaker 1>weren't trying to be a prick, but they were kind

0:25:44.040 --> 0:25:45.880
<v Speaker 1>of being a prick. They're like, why would you start.

0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:48.959
<v Speaker 1>You're going to be sixty ish when you finish. And

0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:50.679
<v Speaker 1>I said, well, in five years, I'm going to be

0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:54.000
<v Speaker 1>sixty anyway, I'm going to be sixty with a PhD

0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:58.240
<v Speaker 1>or sixty without a PhD. So I you know, it's like,

0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:02.640
<v Speaker 1>that's okay, but we don't have to go, oh right,

0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:05.800
<v Speaker 1>so how old are you? All right, well, oh you're seventy,

0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:07.879
<v Speaker 1>all right, you should be sitting in a circle with

0:26:07.960 --> 0:26:11.200
<v Speaker 1>other seventy year olds kicking balloons to each other, because

0:26:11.200 --> 0:26:13.679
<v Speaker 1>that's what seventy year olds do or seventy five year

0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:16.919
<v Speaker 1>olds do. Like, definitely, don't go surfing. Definitely, don't go

0:26:16.960 --> 0:26:20.240
<v Speaker 1>into the gym and do fucking dead lift. Definitely, don't

0:26:20.440 --> 0:26:23.840
<v Speaker 1>climb a mountain. Also, don't learn anything new because you've

0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:27.000
<v Speaker 1>got a seventy year old brain. It's almost like this

0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:30.280
<v Speaker 1>is the unspoken philosophy around aging.

0:26:31.960 --> 0:26:36.400
<v Speaker 2>I think there's a lot of unspoken philosophies that are

0:26:36.440 --> 0:26:40.480
<v Speaker 2>either incomplete or completely ludicrous. But because there's this shared

0:26:40.480 --> 0:26:44.200
<v Speaker 2>illusion we all agree upon and I'm not trashing social media.

0:26:44.240 --> 0:26:46.240
<v Speaker 2>Social media has brought a lot of good into the

0:26:46.240 --> 0:26:48.480
<v Speaker 2>world that's got a lot of great things that can

0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:51.639
<v Speaker 2>do for someone. But also it's no secret it's had

0:26:51.680 --> 0:26:54.080
<v Speaker 2>a negative impact on our society. I think part of

0:26:54.119 --> 0:26:57.359
<v Speaker 2>that is you go into these threads that are not

0:26:57.440 --> 0:27:02.720
<v Speaker 2>an invitation to exchange ideas. What they're demanding is consensus.

0:27:02.760 --> 0:27:06.440
<v Speaker 2>And there's an idea like let's say around agism, and

0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:09.760
<v Speaker 2>everyone who agrees with that idea is in that thread

0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:16.159
<v Speaker 2>and they agree wholeheartedly. There's this incredible emotional intensity around

0:27:16.200 --> 0:27:20.720
<v Speaker 2>this agreement and mutual validation, and if anybody tries to

0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:23.199
<v Speaker 2>get into that thread and even ask a question or

0:27:23.200 --> 0:27:27.919
<v Speaker 2>present a different opinion, they're pushed out of that thread

0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:33.080
<v Speaker 2>or they're mocked until they just like are stamped down

0:27:33.400 --> 0:27:37.439
<v Speaker 2>and leave. And we have all these belief systems about

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:40.840
<v Speaker 2>what an old persons supposed to be right or why

0:27:40.880 --> 0:27:42.760
<v Speaker 2>you're supposed to go about, Like we were talking about

0:27:42.800 --> 0:27:45.679
<v Speaker 2>last week, goal setting not on the show, but you

0:27:45.800 --> 0:27:49.560
<v Speaker 2>and I and even the way we look at goal

0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:53.880
<v Speaker 2>setting holds us back from learning, growth and development. So

0:27:54.040 --> 0:27:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Heidi Grant Halveston, she's brilliant, and she wrote the book Succeed,

0:27:58.400 --> 0:28:00.840
<v Speaker 2>and it talks about all of these types of goal

0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:05.119
<v Speaker 2>setting and how people approach it. And one way to

0:28:05.320 --> 0:28:08.280
<v Speaker 2>decrease how much you learn and grow over time is

0:28:08.320 --> 0:28:12.360
<v Speaker 2>to set a goal around wanting to do good. Now,

0:28:12.400 --> 0:28:14.199
<v Speaker 2>people listening to this is like, well, why would you

0:28:14.240 --> 0:28:16.439
<v Speaker 2>not want to do good? Because if I set a

0:28:16.480 --> 0:28:19.479
<v Speaker 2>goal where Okay, I'm going to do good at this

0:28:19.640 --> 0:28:23.040
<v Speaker 2>meeting so I can get this promotion and in and

0:28:23.080 --> 0:28:24.880
<v Speaker 2>of itself, there's nothing wrong with that. But if it's

0:28:24.960 --> 0:28:29.240
<v Speaker 2>always about the performance and the outcome versus I want

0:28:29.280 --> 0:28:32.040
<v Speaker 2>to do better, I want to set this goal like

0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:34.439
<v Speaker 2>I want to go get my PhD, not so I

0:28:34.440 --> 0:28:37.840
<v Speaker 2>can be called doctor Capuccio or doctor Harper. But what

0:28:38.000 --> 0:28:41.360
<v Speaker 2>about the experience. If that's your thing of going through

0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:45.040
<v Speaker 2>the learning process of getting better, regardless of where you're

0:28:45.080 --> 0:28:47.320
<v Speaker 2>going to end up at the end, you're getting better

0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:49.120
<v Speaker 2>all through it. So when you're going through that, I

0:28:49.160 --> 0:28:51.959
<v Speaker 2>would imagine I've never gone through my PhD program. There

0:28:51.960 --> 0:28:54.920
<v Speaker 2>are some pretty challenging moments that everybody, no matter how

0:28:54.920 --> 0:28:58.040
<v Speaker 2>smart you are, is confronted with somebody's like, well, I

0:28:58.040 --> 0:29:00.400
<v Speaker 2>want to do good. When they get hit all these

0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:05.040
<v Speaker 2>confronting challenges, they start to lose motivation, they start to

0:29:05.080 --> 0:29:09.840
<v Speaker 2>lose confidence, and they tend to quit because it's highly discouraging.

0:29:09.920 --> 0:29:12.480
<v Speaker 2>If this happens, this is a stumbling block. I'm not

0:29:12.520 --> 0:29:14.560
<v Speaker 2>going to get to do good. Well, what does that

0:29:14.640 --> 0:29:17.200
<v Speaker 2>say about me? Oh? My goodness, Dad was right. I'll

0:29:17.200 --> 0:29:20.640
<v Speaker 2>never amount to anything, and that whole storyline versus if

0:29:20.680 --> 0:29:23.160
<v Speaker 2>I want to get better. There's two things that are

0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:25.760
<v Speaker 2>going to happen to me when I'm confronted with challenges.

0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:29.840
<v Speaker 2>One neutral, it doesn't affect me because I'm just trying

0:29:29.840 --> 0:29:32.320
<v Speaker 2>to extract what I can learn. And when I do well,

0:29:33.000 --> 0:29:36.320
<v Speaker 2>I learn something. When I make a mistake, something doesn't

0:29:36.360 --> 0:29:39.040
<v Speaker 2>go well, I just learned something. The other thing that

0:29:39.080 --> 0:29:41.480
<v Speaker 2>happens to a different type of person who is trying

0:29:41.520 --> 0:29:45.360
<v Speaker 2>to do better is they get motivated because learning curiosity

0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:49.239
<v Speaker 2>is such an important fundamental value to them when they

0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:53.040
<v Speaker 2>run into challenges. That is the very evidence that this

0:29:53.280 --> 0:29:56.040
<v Speaker 2>is the point where I am really going to learn. So,

0:29:56.120 --> 0:29:59.000
<v Speaker 2>in the face of adversity, people are trying to do better,

0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:03.560
<v Speaker 2>a growth in learning based mentality around goal setting have

0:30:04.040 --> 0:30:07.840
<v Speaker 2>much greater sustainability and motivation than people who are trying

0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:10.320
<v Speaker 2>to do good. But if you're setting a goal, why

0:30:10.360 --> 0:30:12.840
<v Speaker 2>because you want to have something in the future. I

0:30:12.920 --> 0:30:15.520
<v Speaker 2>want to get this, so I need to do this. Rather,

0:30:15.720 --> 0:30:17.600
<v Speaker 2>I want to do this so I could become that,

0:30:17.720 --> 0:30:21.800
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily necessarily have that. We just have all of

0:30:21.840 --> 0:30:25.040
<v Speaker 2>these beliefs. I'm not going to blame self help, but

0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:27.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of them either come from self help or

0:30:28.000 --> 0:30:30.880
<v Speaker 2>they were perpetuated through self help. A lot of great

0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:34.160
<v Speaker 2>shits was perpetuated through self help. Just want to check myself.

0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:39.800
<v Speaker 2>But it's the way we have these shared illusions that

0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:47.640
<v Speaker 2>I think is a self imposed limitation we place simply

0:30:47.720 --> 0:30:52.840
<v Speaker 2>because we're not challenging dogma, Like is that true? How

0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:56.000
<v Speaker 2>do I know that's true? Do I know anybody who

0:30:56.000 --> 0:30:58.440
<v Speaker 2>defies this? Do I know two people, three people?

0:30:58.920 --> 0:30:59.120
<v Speaker 1>You know?

0:30:59.280 --> 0:31:01.440
<v Speaker 2>Is there like a million in people? It just does

0:31:01.760 --> 0:31:03.280
<v Speaker 2>It just doesn't make sense sometimes.

0:31:04.200 --> 0:31:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think I think too, that you know, challenging

0:31:08.440 --> 0:31:13.120
<v Speaker 1>that that dogma, like you said, of challenging that, you

0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:16.120
<v Speaker 1>know that self help gospel that if you do this

0:31:16.320 --> 0:31:18.520
<v Speaker 1>or get that, then you will become that or you

0:31:18.560 --> 0:31:20.200
<v Speaker 1>will like if I get to the top of the

0:31:20.240 --> 0:31:23.400
<v Speaker 1>mountain then and as we all know, you know, maybe

0:31:23.440 --> 0:31:25.840
<v Speaker 1>it's about the climate. It's not about the destination and

0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:30.080
<v Speaker 1>all those things. But we I don't know that we

0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:35.600
<v Speaker 1>really really self reflect and and I know for myself

0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:37.840
<v Speaker 1>when I was young and I was building businesses and

0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:41.479
<v Speaker 1>employing people and you know, kind of pioneering in this

0:31:41.520 --> 0:31:46.000
<v Speaker 1>thing called personal training and figuring shit out and pushing

0:31:46.040 --> 0:31:48.600
<v Speaker 1>back and fucking up and falling down and getting back

0:31:48.640 --> 0:31:51.400
<v Speaker 1>up and getting embarrassed and winning a few times and

0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:55.080
<v Speaker 1>breakthroughs and breakdowns and breakups and all of those things.

0:31:55.840 --> 0:31:58.600
<v Speaker 1>You you get Sometimes you get to a point where

0:31:58.640 --> 0:32:00.600
<v Speaker 1>you're like, oh, I've achieved my goal, so I've ticked

0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:05.120
<v Speaker 1>the box. I've done the thing. I've got money an now,

0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:07.000
<v Speaker 1>or I've got a business now, or I'm in good

0:32:07.000 --> 0:32:09.240
<v Speaker 1>shape now or I've got a partner now, or I

0:32:09.320 --> 0:32:12.719
<v Speaker 1>look good now or I'm whatever, And you're like, ah,

0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:17.000
<v Speaker 1>why am I still sad? Or why am I still insecure?

0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:20.040
<v Speaker 1>Or why am I still overthinking the shit out of everything?

0:32:20.080 --> 0:32:22.640
<v Speaker 1>Why do I still feel like a fraud? What? You know,

0:32:22.680 --> 0:32:24.640
<v Speaker 1>It's like we have this idea that if I get

0:32:24.680 --> 0:32:27.440
<v Speaker 1>that external thing, that will result in this internal thing,

0:32:28.120 --> 0:32:31.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, And so that's where you kind of differentiate

0:32:31.120 --> 0:32:33.040
<v Speaker 1>between the what and the why, Like, what's the thing

0:32:33.080 --> 0:32:35.240
<v Speaker 1>that you want? Oh? I want to do be create,

0:32:35.360 --> 0:32:39.400
<v Speaker 1>have own earned b look like you know, I want that?

0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:43.400
<v Speaker 1>And then you go cool, oh great, why because that's

0:32:43.520 --> 0:32:46.120
<v Speaker 1>that's really what we want, isn't it. It's like what

0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:50.320
<v Speaker 1>is the driver? What is the reason behind? Okay, you

0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:52.400
<v Speaker 1>want to earn three hundred grand a year. I'm not

0:32:52.440 --> 0:32:55.080
<v Speaker 1>saying that's a bad goal. I'm not saying you shouldn't.

0:32:56.080 --> 0:32:58.600
<v Speaker 1>What do you think is going to change? Like, what

0:32:58.720 --> 0:33:01.520
<v Speaker 1>do you hope that three hundred thousand, that's six thousand

0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:04.360
<v Speaker 1>dollars a week? What is that going to do? And

0:33:04.400 --> 0:33:06.240
<v Speaker 1>then when we dig into that, of course, well I

0:33:06.360 --> 0:33:08.960
<v Speaker 1>just I actually just want to be less stressed. I

0:33:09.000 --> 0:33:11.720
<v Speaker 1>actually just want to be able to put my kids

0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:13.960
<v Speaker 1>in a better school because that'll be well, whatever the

0:33:14.000 --> 0:33:18.440
<v Speaker 1>thing is. And these are not bad correlations necessarily, but

0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:23.800
<v Speaker 1>my experience is that achieving the one often doesn't equate

0:33:23.880 --> 0:33:27.120
<v Speaker 1>to the other. But nonetheless we just keep moving forward

0:33:27.160 --> 0:33:31.120
<v Speaker 1>in this collective mindset in our culture anyway, in Australia,

0:33:31.160 --> 0:33:35.080
<v Speaker 1>which is very much success is about what everyone can

0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:36.640
<v Speaker 1>see that is success.

0:33:38.800 --> 0:33:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Could you really say yourself? I mean, and if you

0:33:40.560 --> 0:33:42.600
<v Speaker 2>arrive there right you've got the income, you've got the

0:33:42.600 --> 0:33:45.160
<v Speaker 2>call of the house, the partner, and you are happy

0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:48.800
<v Speaker 2>and this is everything you've hoped for. Oh that's amazing.

0:33:49.440 --> 0:33:53.840
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, if you were pursuing a value and you

0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:58.760
<v Speaker 2>didn't do that route cause analysis that peeling away the

0:33:58.880 --> 0:34:02.719
<v Speaker 2>layers of why why why and realizing it wasn't the house,

0:34:02.840 --> 0:34:07.680
<v Speaker 2>right it was, It wasn't the car. There was something else.

0:34:08.320 --> 0:34:11.800
<v Speaker 2>Maybe you just wanted to feel safe, you and your family.

0:34:11.840 --> 0:34:15.279
<v Speaker 2>You wanted to provide. If you're not happy, could you

0:34:15.320 --> 0:34:19.040
<v Speaker 2>say you're successful? I mean, wow, look at Bill. He's

0:34:19.080 --> 0:34:23.920
<v Speaker 2>so miserable that man, is he successful? That's not success.

0:34:24.200 --> 0:34:26.439
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever found it curious that when people talk

0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:30.600
<v Speaker 2>about the good old days when things were amazing, very

0:34:30.680 --> 0:34:32.960
<v Speaker 2>often they talk about the times that they were striving,

0:34:33.040 --> 0:34:36.600
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily arriving. Like we were living in that one

0:34:36.719 --> 0:34:40.120
<v Speaker 2>bedroom flat and we were struggling. We were working so hard,

0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:42.600
<v Speaker 2>and we were eating takeaway like out of the cotton,

0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:45.800
<v Speaker 2>which sounds amazing actually, and oh we were so happy.

0:34:46.200 --> 0:34:49.680
<v Speaker 2>You know. Our furniture was like donated by like you know,

0:34:49.840 --> 0:34:53.000
<v Speaker 2>mates who just didn't want to take it to like

0:34:53.040 --> 0:34:56.239
<v Speaker 2>a consignment shop. And it's always it's always when you're

0:34:56.280 --> 0:34:59.560
<v Speaker 2>on the way and you're building something. I think there's

0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:04.399
<v Speaker 2>something about creativity that really matters for people. That's why

0:35:04.400 --> 0:35:07.560
<v Speaker 2>I say curiosity. What am I curious about? And what

0:35:07.600 --> 0:35:10.440
<v Speaker 2>do I want to share with people? Like when my

0:35:10.680 --> 0:35:15.799
<v Speaker 2>internal curiosity impacts you, it touches you and I'm like, oh, my, Craig,

0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:18.879
<v Speaker 2>I read a book today and well not in one day,

0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:21.560
<v Speaker 2>but I just finished the book. I think you'd love

0:35:21.600 --> 0:35:25.000
<v Speaker 2>it because and I'm sharing this with you and like, oh, wow,

0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:28.000
<v Speaker 2>you know what I am curious about that I'm living

0:35:28.040 --> 0:35:30.799
<v Speaker 2>my purpose because I just made a contribution to you.

0:35:31.600 --> 0:35:36.120
<v Speaker 2>I was reading something interesting about virtuous contribution and take

0:35:36.160 --> 0:35:40.640
<v Speaker 2>on virtue, Like what is virtue and virtue is when

0:35:40.960 --> 0:35:44.560
<v Speaker 2>you are expressing your core values in a way that

0:35:44.719 --> 0:35:51.160
<v Speaker 2>contributes to others and elevates their well being. So if

0:35:51.239 --> 0:35:56.120
<v Speaker 2>the impact you're having on peoples more well being in theirs,

0:35:56.440 --> 0:35:59.880
<v Speaker 2>you're probably living virtuously. I thought, wow, that's brilliant because

0:36:00.239 --> 0:36:05.640
<v Speaker 2>there's so many beliefs we have about virtue. But any belief,

0:36:05.760 --> 0:36:11.000
<v Speaker 2>any value, taken to the other extreme can be highly negative.

0:36:11.239 --> 0:36:14.560
<v Speaker 2>There's a shadow aspect of it. If I'm engaging in

0:36:14.600 --> 0:36:17.320
<v Speaker 2>a belief or a way of life that makes me unwell.

0:36:17.800 --> 0:36:21.520
<v Speaker 2>At some point, I'm fighting nature. And whether you believe

0:36:21.760 --> 0:36:25.799
<v Speaker 2>in millions of years of evolution or you believe in

0:36:25.840 --> 0:36:30.680
<v Speaker 2>God and creation, the chances that nature got something wrong

0:36:31.040 --> 0:36:36.480
<v Speaker 2>that you think you've figured out and you've improved upon it,

0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:40.640
<v Speaker 2>it's probably silent to none. If something's wrong, it's probably you,

0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:43.560
<v Speaker 2>not nature. So I think that's a really good litmus

0:36:43.600 --> 0:36:46.920
<v Speaker 2>test for the goals that we set for ourselves and

0:36:46.960 --> 0:36:52.360
<v Speaker 2>the goals that we pursue. Is this making me more well,

0:36:52.760 --> 0:36:55.720
<v Speaker 2>enhancing my well being and others? Or is it having

0:36:55.840 --> 0:36:56.760
<v Speaker 2>the opposite effect?

0:36:57.440 --> 0:37:01.520
<v Speaker 1>Can That's a tricky question, right to talk about virtue?

0:37:01.640 --> 0:37:07.279
<v Speaker 1>And I think one of the one of the reoccurring

0:37:07.360 --> 0:37:10.000
<v Speaker 1>themes on this show and many shows like this, is

0:37:10.120 --> 0:37:13.239
<v Speaker 1>we you know, we want to be virtuous. We want

0:37:13.239 --> 0:37:15.920
<v Speaker 1>to be you know, moral, We want to be ethical.

0:37:16.000 --> 0:37:18.399
<v Speaker 1>We want to we want to have empathy. We want

0:37:18.440 --> 0:37:21.200
<v Speaker 1>to be loving, kind, compassionate, We want to purpose bigger

0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:25.399
<v Speaker 1>than ourselves, right, And I think everyone, including me, likes

0:37:25.440 --> 0:37:28.440
<v Speaker 1>to be seen like this. I think this is hard

0:37:28.560 --> 0:37:32.280
<v Speaker 1>to say, right, but I feel like the natural state

0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:38.520
<v Speaker 1>of most of us, me included, the default setting is selfish,

0:37:38.640 --> 0:37:42.920
<v Speaker 1>The default setting is not generous. The default setting is me, me, me,

0:37:43.080 --> 0:37:46.279
<v Speaker 1>got to look after me, protect me, And I get

0:37:46.280 --> 0:37:49.640
<v Speaker 1>that from an evolutionary and a survival point of view.

0:37:49.719 --> 0:37:52.200
<v Speaker 1>I get that, but I'm not talking so much about

0:37:52.280 --> 0:37:59.319
<v Speaker 1>evolutionary survival. It is this being virtuous, being kind, being

0:37:59.360 --> 0:38:04.759
<v Speaker 1>aware of having having an awareness bigger than you. This

0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:08.000
<v Speaker 1>is a This is a I think this is a

0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:13.480
<v Speaker 1>spiritual process. I think where for me anyway? Where? Because

0:38:13.520 --> 0:38:16.719
<v Speaker 1>I know how fucking self absorbed I can be. Just

0:38:16.840 --> 0:38:20.400
<v Speaker 1>ask some of the people in my world how selfish

0:38:20.480 --> 0:38:23.799
<v Speaker 1>I can be. And I think it's very easy to

0:38:23.800 --> 0:38:26.400
<v Speaker 1>get on podcasts and say all these things but not

0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:29.960
<v Speaker 1>be the things. And I think, I'm not talking about you.

0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:31.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm not talking about me necessarily, but I can only

0:38:32.000 --> 0:38:34.680
<v Speaker 1>speak on my behalf. But that when we talk about,

0:38:35.160 --> 0:38:38.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, be virtuous, be this, be that, and figure

0:38:38.719 --> 0:38:41.280
<v Speaker 1>out your purpose and live in alignment with your values,

0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:46.000
<v Speaker 1>and it is it is. I think it's not the

0:38:46.040 --> 0:38:48.560
<v Speaker 1>worst advice in the world, and I definitely think there's

0:38:48.600 --> 0:38:52.000
<v Speaker 1>a lot in it, But fucking hell, the human experience

0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:57.320
<v Speaker 1>is not that simple, is it. It's like I'm a clumsy, selfish,

0:38:57.400 --> 0:39:03.480
<v Speaker 1>fucking critical sometimes a bit smart. Sometimes are more unfucking

0:39:04.040 --> 0:39:07.600
<v Speaker 1>just human just stumbling through life sometimes and it's like

0:39:08.120 --> 0:39:11.640
<v Speaker 1>we hold up all these beautiful words virtue, and it's like,

0:39:11.719 --> 0:39:14.600
<v Speaker 1>oh yeah, it's just this, it's just this kind of

0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:18.360
<v Speaker 1>story unfolding, and you're the author of your story. Now.

0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:21.319
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes you're the dumbass in the middle of shit that's

0:39:21.360 --> 0:39:22.400
<v Speaker 1>out of control. You know.

0:39:24.320 --> 0:39:27.000
<v Speaker 2>You know what's interesting when you say that, I think

0:39:27.719 --> 0:39:31.120
<v Speaker 2>you're speaking to the core of my belief systems. Human

0:39:31.160 --> 0:39:35.320
<v Speaker 2>beings are very complicated, and some of the most kind

0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:39.839
<v Speaker 2>or quote unquote virtuous people I have ever met are

0:39:39.880 --> 0:39:45.000
<v Speaker 2>the ones that are the most flawed and dysfunctional and

0:39:45.080 --> 0:39:50.239
<v Speaker 2>completely rough around the edges, like people cross to the

0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:52.839
<v Speaker 2>other side of the street when they're walking down the road,

0:39:53.800 --> 0:39:57.279
<v Speaker 2>and when you get to know them, they're amazing. I

0:39:57.320 --> 0:40:02.799
<v Speaker 2>think semantics matter a lot when you say virtuous, like

0:40:03.080 --> 0:40:06.840
<v Speaker 2>what are we talking about? Because I think sometimes we

0:40:06.920 --> 0:40:13.480
<v Speaker 2>confuse piety for virtue, or we have these moralizations. So

0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:15.799
<v Speaker 2>if it's like, hey, I'm playing this game where look

0:40:15.800 --> 0:40:19.359
<v Speaker 2>at me, I'm good, you're bad. First of all, you're

0:40:19.360 --> 0:40:24.680
<v Speaker 2>being dishonest and you're definitely not being virtuous. And I

0:40:24.719 --> 0:40:28.480
<v Speaker 2>think anything that is worth doing is worth doing imperfectly,

0:40:29.640 --> 0:40:33.279
<v Speaker 2>even if you are off the mark of where you

0:40:33.440 --> 0:40:37.520
<v Speaker 2>want to be. More of the time, just trying to

0:40:37.600 --> 0:40:41.719
<v Speaker 2>move that needle is very good for you. And when

0:40:41.760 --> 0:40:44.720
<v Speaker 2>I think about virtue, I don't think about somebody being

0:40:45.760 --> 0:40:49.800
<v Speaker 2>moral and perfect and good. That's not my fucking business

0:40:49.960 --> 0:40:53.680
<v Speaker 2>to be fair, unless, of course their behaviors are infringing

0:40:53.760 --> 0:40:59.640
<v Speaker 2>upon somebody else. What I'm talking about, like it goes

0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:03.640
<v Speaker 2>back into meditations with Marcusuralius, like what does it mean

0:41:03.680 --> 0:41:05.799
<v Speaker 2>to live a life of greatness? You know that that

0:41:05.840 --> 0:41:08.399
<v Speaker 2>stuff always bothers me, Like what you're talk about, what's

0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:11.680
<v Speaker 2>what's a life of greatness? It's like with human beings.

0:41:12.239 --> 0:41:16.320
<v Speaker 2>And here's this guy who is probably one of arguably

0:41:16.360 --> 0:41:19.080
<v Speaker 2>the most powerful person who has ever lived, or in

0:41:19.120 --> 0:41:23.799
<v Speaker 2>a small group of that class, and he's struggling with

0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:27.880
<v Speaker 2>He doesn't want to abuse his power. He truly wants

0:41:27.920 --> 0:41:31.319
<v Speaker 2>to lead well. And he says that greatness and I

0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:35.120
<v Speaker 2>think this is in line with virtue is trying to

0:41:35.239 --> 0:41:39.399
<v Speaker 2>bring about the greatest amount of good where you are

0:41:39.840 --> 0:41:42.520
<v Speaker 2>in the moment. And that's going to be different when

0:41:42.560 --> 0:41:44.840
<v Speaker 2>you're having the worst moment of your life or a

0:41:44.880 --> 0:41:46.560
<v Speaker 2>really bad day versus.

0:41:46.200 --> 0:41:46.799
<v Speaker 1>A good day.

0:41:47.200 --> 0:41:49.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, there are going to be times where you

0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:53.120
<v Speaker 2>go out and you know, last night was a train wreck,

0:41:53.200 --> 0:41:56.000
<v Speaker 2>and then there's times where oh wow, I feel like

0:41:56.080 --> 0:41:58.360
<v Speaker 2>a more in alignment of who I want to be.

0:41:58.920 --> 0:42:02.120
<v Speaker 2>It's on that scale and having grace with yourself and

0:42:02.200 --> 0:42:05.399
<v Speaker 2>having grace with others, because if you have zero grace

0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:10.520
<v Speaker 2>with others and you are the virtue police nothing like,

0:42:10.719 --> 0:42:15.000
<v Speaker 2>what's that saying virtue can never survive the virtuous? You're

0:42:15.000 --> 0:42:20.760
<v Speaker 2>not acting virtuously because virtue would would imply a moment

0:42:20.800 --> 0:42:25.000
<v Speaker 2>of care. Are you elevating that person's sense of wellbeing?

0:42:25.239 --> 0:42:27.719
<v Speaker 2>Are you elevating yourself? Like those people walk around and

0:42:27.760 --> 0:42:30.480
<v Speaker 2>talk about how everyone's so fucked up and they're doing

0:42:30.520 --> 0:42:32.960
<v Speaker 2>all these behaviors and look at what they do and

0:42:33.040 --> 0:42:36.280
<v Speaker 2>how they dress, Like, is that elevating your well being?

0:42:36.840 --> 0:42:40.560
<v Speaker 2>You are miserable, Like I'm miserable just listening to you,

0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:44.680
<v Speaker 2>being inside your head must be a nightmare. So it's

0:42:44.719 --> 0:42:49.360
<v Speaker 2>not about perfection, and it's about what brings you closer

0:42:49.400 --> 0:42:51.759
<v Speaker 2>to well being, what brings you closer to other And

0:42:51.800 --> 0:42:55.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm sure from a religious sense, you can

0:42:55.840 --> 0:43:01.719
<v Speaker 2>have a conversation about morality but you could probably make

0:43:01.800 --> 0:43:04.520
<v Speaker 2>the same case that if you think about people who

0:43:04.560 --> 0:43:09.520
<v Speaker 2>are rooted in in morality. M hm, there's a lot

0:43:09.560 --> 0:43:15.360
<v Speaker 2>of there's there's a lot of intersection with the definition

0:43:15.400 --> 0:43:18.800
<v Speaker 2>of virtue that I said I read about, because someone

0:43:18.880 --> 0:43:26.040
<v Speaker 2>who is acting quote unquote moral will probably be focused

0:43:26.040 --> 0:43:29.760
<v Speaker 2>on bringing about higher levels of well being in themselves

0:43:29.760 --> 0:43:33.720
<v Speaker 2>and others, but they might not have the same idea

0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:36.440
<v Speaker 2>about how that shows up, right, Like some things might

0:43:36.480 --> 0:43:38.160
<v Speaker 2>not be an issue for them, that might be an

0:43:38.160 --> 0:43:40.920
<v Speaker 2>issue for other people. And then I mean, we can

0:43:40.960 --> 0:43:44.800
<v Speaker 2>get into a whole conversation about that, but it's like, Okay,

0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:48.160
<v Speaker 2>is what I'm doing supporting my well being and others?

0:43:48.320 --> 0:43:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Or is it not not as a standard of perfection

0:43:52.600 --> 0:43:56.200
<v Speaker 2>but kind of like a compass. I think I think,

0:43:56.239 --> 0:43:57.120
<v Speaker 2>I think it's helpful.

0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Do you know One of the r andies is I

0:44:01.040 --> 0:44:06.120
<v Speaker 1>think this sounds completely contrary and contradictory, but I think

0:44:06.200 --> 0:44:13.440
<v Speaker 1>there's almost a kind of generosity and selflessness to a

0:44:13.520 --> 0:44:19.560
<v Speaker 1>point which can come out of being selfish. My quick

0:44:19.600 --> 0:44:23.239
<v Speaker 1>story about that is when I used to be primarily

0:44:23.320 --> 0:44:29.960
<v Speaker 1>me focused, I was consistently less happy than when I started.

0:44:30.520 --> 0:44:34.880
<v Speaker 1>When I started to realize, oh, I'm doing all this stuff.

0:44:34.920 --> 0:44:37.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm now I've created all these things. And I don't

0:44:37.719 --> 0:44:43.080
<v Speaker 1>think I was a wildly selfish, ignorant person. I was,

0:44:43.360 --> 0:44:48.080
<v Speaker 1>to a degree aware and kind, but I was more

0:44:48.120 --> 0:44:50.960
<v Speaker 1>selfish than I would like to have been. But the

0:44:51.000 --> 0:44:56.360
<v Speaker 1>moment that I recognized the outcome of my selfishness, like emotionally, mentally, socially,

0:44:56.960 --> 0:45:01.520
<v Speaker 1>it's like, oh, even analytically, I can realize this doesn't work,

0:45:01.880 --> 0:45:05.840
<v Speaker 1>like selfishness. Whatever the goal or whatever the underlying reasons

0:45:05.880 --> 0:45:08.080
<v Speaker 1>are for my it doesn't work. And then you go

0:45:08.960 --> 0:45:11.600
<v Speaker 1>and as cheesy as it sounds, when I do and

0:45:11.640 --> 0:45:14.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't always, but when I have a purpose bigger

0:45:15.000 --> 0:45:18.080
<v Speaker 1>than me, or an awareness bigger than me, or where

0:45:18.440 --> 0:45:21.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm doing things where there is no agenda or hook

0:45:21.360 --> 0:45:24.040
<v Speaker 1>or catch, it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, there is. There's

0:45:24.080 --> 0:45:27.360
<v Speaker 1>another principle at work here. This is not a ledger,

0:45:28.000 --> 0:45:30.400
<v Speaker 1>This is not you know, zeros and ones, This is

0:45:30.440 --> 0:45:34.799
<v Speaker 1>not dollars and cents, This is not you know, red

0:45:34.800 --> 0:45:37.560
<v Speaker 1>and black. This is you know, this is there's something

0:45:37.600 --> 0:45:41.239
<v Speaker 1>else operating here. And that so I think even if

0:45:41.239 --> 0:45:45.600
<v Speaker 1>you can, just from an intellectual point of view, understand that,

0:45:46.560 --> 0:45:48.200
<v Speaker 1>just just have a look at the data, have a

0:45:48.239 --> 0:45:52.000
<v Speaker 1>look at all the selfish, self centered people that you know,

0:45:52.800 --> 0:45:54.920
<v Speaker 1>and have a look at the byproduct, have a look

0:45:54.920 --> 0:45:59.400
<v Speaker 1>at the psychological emotional byproduct of that. It doesn't work.

0:45:59.800 --> 0:46:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Like it doesn't work. Not that that's a reason necessarily

0:46:02.920 --> 0:46:06.880
<v Speaker 1>to be more generous, but it definitely there's evidence to

0:46:06.920 --> 0:46:10.279
<v Speaker 1>say that these things that some people might call spiritual

0:46:10.360 --> 0:46:14.400
<v Speaker 1>principles of being more, caring, more empathetic, more or maybe

0:46:14.480 --> 0:46:17.719
<v Speaker 1>just human values, whatever you want to call them, there's

0:46:17.800 --> 0:46:21.240
<v Speaker 1>clear evidence that not only do they work on that level,

0:46:21.280 --> 0:46:25.479
<v Speaker 1>but they also work on a mental and emotional level

0:46:25.520 --> 0:46:31.360
<v Speaker 1>too for the individual. Like I'm so much calmer, so

0:46:31.480 --> 0:46:37.480
<v Speaker 1>much less anxious, so much more I think grounded and content.

0:46:37.640 --> 0:46:41.840
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't say happy, I would just say content because

0:46:42.120 --> 0:46:45.880
<v Speaker 1>I've shifted and I continue to try to shift my focus.

0:46:48.040 --> 0:46:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeap. Just as a thought exercise, what if there was

0:46:52.880 --> 0:46:56.000
<v Speaker 2>something or someone out there that was trying to tell us, hey,

0:46:57.239 --> 0:47:01.920
<v Speaker 2>if you behave in certain ways, you carry certain intentions,

0:47:03.000 --> 0:47:05.160
<v Speaker 2>you are going to produce a lot of pain for

0:47:05.239 --> 0:47:08.880
<v Speaker 2>yourself and other people unnecessarily. It's not like a pain

0:47:09.000 --> 0:47:11.759
<v Speaker 2>is part and suffering is part of the process, and

0:47:11.840 --> 0:47:15.000
<v Speaker 2>the sacrifice to get something. This is going to be

0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:19.200
<v Speaker 2>needless amounts of pain and suffering, and you will ultimately

0:47:19.239 --> 0:47:24.080
<v Speaker 2>bring about the very things that you are trying to avoid. Now,

0:47:24.120 --> 0:47:28.280
<v Speaker 2>if you do this and you engage on this level,

0:47:28.760 --> 0:47:31.359
<v Speaker 2>and you care about people, you break and you make

0:47:31.520 --> 0:47:37.879
<v Speaker 2>bridges with people, you are going to avert a lot.

0:47:38.400 --> 0:47:40.520
<v Speaker 2>You are going to avoid a lot more problems in

0:47:40.560 --> 0:47:44.319
<v Speaker 2>your life, and you are going to be more fulfilled.

0:47:44.400 --> 0:47:48.400
<v Speaker 2>Maybe not happier, but you will be more fulfilled. You

0:47:48.440 --> 0:47:51.799
<v Speaker 2>will be more at peace, Things will have meaning for

0:47:51.840 --> 0:47:56.880
<v Speaker 2>you because based on what you just said, it's almost

0:47:57.160 --> 0:48:02.040
<v Speaker 2>like this was set up by society, someone something somewhere

0:48:02.760 --> 0:48:06.480
<v Speaker 2>say hey, just trust us on this or trust the meanlesness.

0:48:07.520 --> 0:48:09.960
<v Speaker 2>You think, you think you're going down a good path,

0:48:10.000 --> 0:48:10.799
<v Speaker 2>but you're really not.

0:48:12.120 --> 0:48:18.120
<v Speaker 1>And what's I've got a question for you. What's at

0:48:18.160 --> 0:48:22.760
<v Speaker 1>one end of the scale, we've got complete self obsession selfishness,

0:48:22.840 --> 0:48:24.720
<v Speaker 1>and then at the other end of the scale, maybe

0:48:24.760 --> 0:48:29.160
<v Speaker 1>we've got selflessness. I don't think selflessness works. I don't

0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:34.480
<v Speaker 1>think selfishness works. What's that middle spot. What's what's somewhere

0:48:34.600 --> 0:48:37.439
<v Speaker 1>along the scale there that's good for us and good

0:48:37.480 --> 0:48:40.160
<v Speaker 1>for them? So to speak. I don't know. I.

0:48:40.320 --> 0:48:45.040
<v Speaker 2>I would imagine that that is different for everyone. I

0:48:45.200 --> 0:48:51.239
<v Speaker 2>would imagine that place depends on intention. Like I'm let's

0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:56.719
<v Speaker 2>say I'm a person who behaves selflessly, if that's even possible,

0:48:57.200 --> 0:48:59.919
<v Speaker 2>because if I care about you, the second I can

0:49:00.200 --> 0:49:03.719
<v Speaker 2>with you, I get something emotionally. But let's say the

0:49:03.800 --> 0:49:09.279
<v Speaker 2>intention is not there regardless of the unavoidable consequence. Is

0:49:09.320 --> 0:49:14.040
<v Speaker 2>that because seeing you happy and helping you is super

0:49:14.040 --> 0:49:19.040
<v Speaker 2>important to me? Or is it because I lack a

0:49:19.160 --> 0:49:22.040
<v Speaker 2>level of self worth and I need that validation. Oh,

0:49:22.120 --> 0:49:25.120
<v Speaker 2>Bobby's such a good guy, isn't he? Look at how

0:49:25.160 --> 0:49:29.600
<v Speaker 2>he helped Paul Craig like sot out sought out that outfit.

0:49:29.719 --> 0:49:31.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, Craig was going to walk out there and

0:49:31.600 --> 0:49:35.000
<v Speaker 2>just in a complete state, and just Bobby took him

0:49:35.040 --> 0:49:40.960
<v Speaker 2>shopping and Craig looks amazing. Now like what, yeah, you're welcome.

0:49:41.000 --> 0:49:43.480
<v Speaker 2>I enjoyed it. It was a good day out. What

0:49:43.800 --> 0:49:48.239
<v Speaker 2>is your intention behind that? And it's not to say,

0:49:48.239 --> 0:49:51.680
<v Speaker 2>oh my goodness, you're so duplicitous you say you want

0:49:51.840 --> 0:49:55.160
<v Speaker 2>it's like, why do I need that? What need is

0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:59.080
<v Speaker 2>that trying to fulfill in me? Because I believe we're

0:49:59.120 --> 0:50:03.719
<v Speaker 2>sometimes stress and fear by sometimes, I mean a lot

0:50:03.760 --> 0:50:06.640
<v Speaker 2>of times bring out the worst of us, Like what

0:50:06.920 --> 0:50:10.239
<v Speaker 2>am I needing right now? Because I think we're not

0:50:10.520 --> 0:50:12.799
<v Speaker 2>taught to think, We're not taught to think about our

0:50:12.880 --> 0:50:17.160
<v Speaker 2>motivations and do self reflection, and heaven forbid we do

0:50:17.200 --> 0:50:20.799
<v Speaker 2>that on behalf of somebody else. We arrive at an immediate,

0:50:21.520 --> 0:50:25.120
<v Speaker 2>definite conclusion about why that person behaves in the way

0:50:25.120 --> 0:50:28.360
<v Speaker 2>they do, even though we have very little information to

0:50:28.440 --> 0:50:30.480
<v Speaker 2>make that determination. And if you go out and you

0:50:30.520 --> 0:50:32.400
<v Speaker 2>find like I don't know a few people that agree

0:50:32.400 --> 0:50:36.200
<v Speaker 2>with you, you can't possibly be wrong. But understanding yourself,

0:50:36.239 --> 0:50:40.239
<v Speaker 2>I think, and I think that middle line it kind

0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:43.279
<v Speaker 2>of moves. There are some times where if you're not

0:50:43.520 --> 0:50:46.800
<v Speaker 2>more focused on yourself, you're going to be so depleted

0:50:47.239 --> 0:50:49.480
<v Speaker 2>you're not going to be good for anybody. Or you're

0:50:49.480 --> 0:50:53.760
<v Speaker 2>going to get so depleted you might actually be detrimental

0:50:53.800 --> 0:50:58.160
<v Speaker 2>to people. So maybe sometimes going hey, I'm going to

0:50:58.200 --> 0:51:02.640
<v Speaker 2>be a little bit more selfish because I may not

0:51:02.760 --> 0:51:03.799
<v Speaker 2>have that impact, you know.

0:51:04.480 --> 0:51:07.080
<v Speaker 1>I think it's just self care. It's like I know this.

0:51:07.200 --> 0:51:09.719
<v Speaker 1>If I don't eat well, sleep well, manage me well,

0:51:10.360 --> 0:51:13.160
<v Speaker 1>then I'm not good for others. And that's just an awareness.

0:51:13.160 --> 0:51:16.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that's a selfishness thing. Mate, We've got

0:51:16.239 --> 0:51:20.719
<v Speaker 1>to go. That was good. I really enjoyed that much

0:51:20.760 --> 0:51:22.880
<v Speaker 1>better than the other stupid topic we were going to

0:51:22.880 --> 0:51:27.880
<v Speaker 1>talk about. How can people find you and follow you?

0:51:27.880 --> 0:51:28.560
<v Speaker 1>Young Robert?

0:51:30.880 --> 0:51:33.439
<v Speaker 2>You can go to Robert Caapuccio dot com, the self

0:51:33.480 --> 0:51:38.640
<v Speaker 2>helpanta dot com. I am on LinkedIn, so hope to

0:51:38.680 --> 0:51:39.000
<v Speaker 2>see that.

0:51:40.040 --> 0:51:45.520
<v Speaker 1>And also Bobby is available for work too in he's alway,

0:51:45.520 --> 0:51:47.239
<v Speaker 1>he's got a job, but he does some coaching, he

0:51:47.280 --> 0:51:51.680
<v Speaker 1>does some consulting, he does some other corporate work on Zoom.

0:51:51.760 --> 0:51:53.200
<v Speaker 1>So if you live in Australia and you think I

0:51:53.239 --> 0:51:55.640
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't mind doing a coaching session with him, hit him up.

0:51:56.280 --> 0:51:58.520
<v Speaker 1>And if you've got you might need to sell a kidney,

0:51:58.800 --> 0:52:02.400
<v Speaker 1>possibly your spleen, maybe one or two year vehicles, but

0:52:02.760 --> 0:52:04.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm sure you can organize something.

0:52:04.640 --> 0:52:08.720
<v Speaker 2>With him if you come to appendix you're not using. Yeah,

0:52:08.800 --> 0:52:10.120
<v Speaker 2>that's such a copy as well.

0:52:10.719 --> 0:52:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Thanks mate,